I think the "Billy should ditch the boar" takes comes from AM being the one route that breaks their self-insert fantasy. Flamey and Emile doing their stuff and the Jerry thing etc do not matter bcs its not being directly mean to YOU, the player, in YOUR story. Edel-chan is a very sad and traumatized girl that will ALWAYS love YOU no matter what you do and she will doodle YOU and squeak about rats n stuff, but you don't have to actually deal with any of her supposed trauma in a realistic way (+)
(cont) She will always be fine and ready to gush after you, the trauma is only a plot device to make her wary of other people that aren't you, and be attached to only you. What she does to randoms doesn't matter as long as she's nice to you. But the evil european barbarian boar dares to actually show his trauma and negative emotions around you, and make you uncomfy, and bring any sort of realism to your fantasy! how dare he! Not only that, but he admits he didn't like you at the beginning!!!(+)
(cont) you, the player, isn't above other characters when it comes to him being rude because of his trauma and mental illness, and the story dares to show your avatar feeling sad and powerless instead of badass and cool. He won't listen to you until another character opens his eyes first, and even if you marry him he's still hearing voices and struggling with his issues, your love won't cure him!! Not only that, but AM is his story, not yours! (+)
(cont) It relegates your self-insert to a supportive deuteragonist instead of the main hero the plot centers around. He will become The King and you will be just a religious leader, following the footsteps of the Evil Lizard Lady!! Obviously you don't want that!! this is your story, where you can dump all your anti-church IRL arguments into, and be a super cool baddass mercenary who never has to deal with negative emotions!! And that's why AM is the only FE16 route where I actually like Billy.
Sorry anon for the tardiness of the reply!
Yep, I feel like for both Dee and the evil lizard lady, at one point, they are unhappy/upset/angry and more or less negative at Billy - who is, in this situation, taken as the player.
I remember during the heights of 2020-2021 discourse people sending asks to other asking how can they like Rhea bcs she was meant to "u" and whatnot, and it's just... Self-insert at its finest?
But Billy - the character we see in Nopes, FEH and FE17, wouldn't feel like the player in those instances (because Billy the character would never pick the "uwu" option in the Holy Tomb, and Billy the character would understand and/or at least get how Dimitri doesn't want to talk right now) - so again, it's the same old question, who is Billy? An empty self insert who feels a lot of sad uwus when Rhea threatens to rip their heart out as they assist and support who swore to kill her because her ears are pointy and cries whenever Dimitri doesn't want to talk to them, or is Billy the character we see in other games, who shows more empathy and tries to understand people, and thus, wouldn't have been able to pick a certain route in FE16?
Lol I just remember now how some people didn't like Cyril or even Seteth because they didn't slobber over Billy - as the self-insert - in their first 5 lines unlike the rest of the cast ^^
Granted, this "YOU must be the most important person EVER" comes back in full force with the S-supports (tfw seteth doesn't mention his family to billy when they hold hands) and it reiterates something I always knew : Avatars were a mistake.
Parasocial maybe saved the franchise from turning into another F-Zero like saga, but damn if it nuked a lot in the process (and by, a lot, i mean coherence and characters networks).
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Covering their names just in case but
Explain CF then.
Byleth sides with Edelgard before the timeskip. Byleth chooses Edelgard’s violent ways of disposing of Rhea, which are extremely similar to Hopes!Claude’s way of disposing of Rhea (invade the Kingdom that gave her refuge and kill her). So if Byleth is the key factor here in Claude choosing or not choosing to enact violence onto Rhea, then why would Byleth themselves choosing violence not thus influence Claude to enact violence? Why would Claude oppose Edelgard for the entire war, up until she quite literally forces him out of Fodlan altogether?
Byleth would’ve clearly lost Rhea’s approval after siding with the one side of Fodlan trying to murder her, which would mean that Claude would’ve also, by this logic, been influenced to also try to murder her since now there’s no successor to take on Fodlan after Rhea. If his Hopes and 3H versions were genuinely in line with each other, then CF!Claude would’ve joined Edelgard off the rip. If Claude feels that Byleth not being approved by Rhea would make him get rid of her by force... then why does Byleth not getting approved by Rhea NOT make him get rid of her by force?
Like, I can post shit that comes from WC, VW, AM, SS, I can even post shit he mentions that happens well before the game’s plot and story. But the thing that arguably most definitively debunks Hopes!Claude’s existence (past Part 2) is actually CF. Rhea is depicted as the big bad that has to be killed to gain peace, Byleth is opposing Rhea and has this be a known fact since before the five year timeskip, and Edelgard - just like she does in Hopes - doesn’t bother talking with Claude even the slightest until AFTER she’d already invaded his land. But despite that, Claude - despite having no wins against the Empire unlike in Hopes, and despite having far fewer people on his side unlike in Hopes, and despite not having to deal with Almyra unlike in Hopes (and in fact having them be straight up ALLIES here who are NEVER said to have invaded during the timeskip) - does. Not. Side. With. Edelgard.
Despite “but he was under duress from the Empire!” being MORE TRUE IN 3H than in Hopes, and despite Byleth ACTIVELY APPROVING OF KILLING RHEA unlike in Hopes, he doesn’t side with Edelgard! Even to try and trick her! Almost like that ain’t had SHIT to do with why he did or didn’t side with her, and it was HIS BASE MORALS THAT HE HAS IN HIS BASE CHARACTER THAT NO ONE INSTILLED INTO HIM that influenced him to not side with Edelgard! Crazy idea, but Claude’s his own character with his own internal reasoning for doing things that don’t have to necessarily be tied with Byleth, or Rhea, or the Church, or anything or anyone else for him to have!
And also, Hopes!Edelgard may not have ever been the Flame Emperor to the students of Garreg Mach, but “never did fishy things”? Bruh, did you forget the whole part where she
RANDOMLY WAGED WAR ON EVERYONE???
When she invaded the Alliance and Claude says, quote, “The Central Church is headquartered at Garreg Mach. And the fastest way to get there is straight through Alliance territory. So far, the Empire hasn’t tried to negotiate with us at all. Which means they plan to force their way through here”? That thing that Edelgard literally does, and then literally goes on to lie about? Those things that Hopes!Claude just doesn’t give a shit about for no reason, and then GOES ON TO DO HIMSELF TOWARDS THE KINGDOM?
And Edelgard’s “compromise” isn’t even that great considering that both Claude and Holst know that once the Kingdom is gone the Empire will likely use their superior might to force over majority/complete reign over the Faerghus region before making Leicester into a vassal state. In Hopes!Claude’s own mind, she still doesn’t genuinely respect Leicester as an independent state - he just... doesn’t give a shit about doing anything about that. He just keeps going on mindlessly attacking the Kingdom anyway because, at this point, Who Fuckin’ Cares Lol.
Hopes!Claude is intrinsically contradictory and thus can not and does not make sense. To himself or to 3H!Claude. His character’s writing is treated with no respect and only has the purpose of “giving something different” without any care put into making that different thing any kind of sensical. Sorry, but I’m just not gonna bother trying to make sense of a character the writers clearly didn’t give a shit about after a very blatant point in their story
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Quasimodo: Barbarian
Esmerelda: Dancer Bard
Phoebus: Paladin with points in Ranger for a horse pet
Clopin: Rogue/Bard multiclass. A DM's nightmare when he's not doing it himself.
Frollo: At best, the asshole Cleric whom the entire party hates.
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