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ettelenethelien · 1 month

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topics of contention among historians of Gondor:

whether Ar-Pharazon or Tar-Miriel should be considered the last ruler of Númenor. Pharazon is traditionally named as such, but once in a blue moon you have someone point out that he was an usurper and these aren't supposed to count. the refutations tend to come in the form of (a) but we're reluctant to make changes in the books (b) that it's definitely Pharazon's actions that are what comes to mind when you think about the last years of Númenor and Miriel shouldn't be linked with them

the rohirrim (not) being descended from the house of Hador. this is a story someone had more or less made up wholesale based on very little evidence, but calling them close relations makes people feel better about Gondor having given up a third of it's territory in their favour. every once in a while some young scholar realises this, tries to make his case, and is promptly shut down.

a slight lost-cause-ism problem regarding the kinstrife in some circles, for that matter, though thankfully it's a rather niche view (or at least one mostly kept silent about)

whether assorted first age figures were villains or tragic heroes. kind of like this fandom, tbh, though with way fewer uncritical fëanor stans and a lot more you do realise he would have hated you, right? (no morgoth fans though, because first of all, what the heck, and also that would be a very hard position to defend when his most important servant is actively trying to genocide you)

whether the ship-kings' conquests were that needful or advantageous, actually, and just how much historical reason the peoples of harad might have to not like gondorians

do. not. cite. the legend of beruthiel. as. a. historical. source, please! (seven stars! she hated gondor, gondor hated her, she was suspected of nefarious doings and tarannon had her sent back home. that's IT. she MIGHT have had cats, and the rest is common fancy)

who actually raised the first king of númenor after his parents, um, entered the realm of legend. yes, I know what the most fanciful story says, but it has to be just story, right? it would be so weird and ironic and our legendary progenitor can't have been raised by murderers...

surprisingly fierce battles over very obscure first age edain with legends attached. you can't imagine how much shouting can get involved.

#my post #gondor #númenor #edain #peoples of arda #tolkien #Silmarillion #lotr

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nolofinweanweek · 6 months

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Nolofinwëan week is starting in 2 weeks!

Below are some inspirational, nonmandatory prompts for your creations. These suggestions are formatted as questions because they are meant simply to inspire you. Featured timeframes and characters can be mixed and matched in whatever way or disrespected completely.

Day 1: Noontide of Valinor - Darkening | Fingolfin | Anairë

Canon offers only hints about the Noontide of Valinor, a pre-canonical era that established many relationships and events we see unfolding in the Silmarillion. How did Fingolfin and Anairë meet? What kind of childhood experiences did Fingon, Turgon, Aredhel and Argon have? What was their relationship with the families of Fëanor and Finarfin? Were Fingolfin and Fëanor always at odds? How did the interference of Melkor disrupt these relationships? What events developed after Fëanor's banishment to Formenos and Fingolfin's rule in Tirion? How do you envision the Darkening of Valinor?

Day 2: Exile - Arrival to Beleriand | Fingon | Argon | Elenwë

The Flight of the Noldor is a breaking moment, a crisis that brings about some of the most challenging moments for Fingolfin and his family. Can you illustrate the argument that brought about the decision to leave Valinor? What effect did Fingon's participation at Alqualondë have? What were the relationships between the hosts of Fingolfin and Finrod on the Helcaraxë? What was Argon's or Elenwë's story before their passing? How do you interpret the rising of the Moon and the Sun with the host's arrival to Middle-earth? What about that glorious moment when the host challenges Morgoth at his gates?

Day 3: Mithrim - The Long Peace | Turgon | Aredhel | Eöl

The early days of Mithrim solidified the House of Fingolfin as the next line of Noldorin Kings, followed by a 200-year-long siege of Angband. What were the early political relationships between the hosts of Fingolfin and the Fëanorian followers? What prompted Turgon to build Vinyamar and then Gondolin? What was Aredhel's life like in Gondolin before leaving? What kind of new friendships were developed during the Long Peace? Did any reconciliations take place? What were the Nolofinwëan fortresses like during peaceful times? What was the Nolofinwëan relationship like with the local Sindar Elves?

The Battle of Sudden Flame brings another turmoil with the death of Fingolfin and the rising of Fingon as the new High King. This is the beginning of a turbulent period that will culminate with the sinking of Beleriand. How do you imagine these battles? What is your reading of Fingon's Kingship? How do you envision the relationships between the House of Fingolfin and their mortal allies, the House of Hador? What kind of culture did Gondolin develop in its isolation? What brought about the strained relationship between Idril and Maeglin, and how did it affect loyalties in Gondolin? What happened to Gondolin's refugees? What was Idril and Tuor's final fate? How do you imagine Sirion and its multicultural population?

Day 5: Lindon - War of the Ring | Elrond | Elros | Gil-galad | Celebrían

The War of Wrath destroys Beleriand, but the line of Fingolfin goes on through his descendants. How do you imagine the begging of a new life in Lindon? What is your reading of the parentage of Gil-galad? What was his kingship like? What was the relationship between the Peredhil twins? What led to their decision to choose different fates? What kind of culture developed in Lindon, Númenór, Rivendell or other settlements ruled by Nolofinwëan descendants? How did the events from the first age affect relationships in the second and third?

Day 6: Fourth Age Middle-earth - Return to Valinor | Númenórean descendants | Peredhil descendants

The Fourth Age signified the end of the Elven era in Middle-earth and the end of Tolkien's canon. What about your own ideas for this time frame? How does Gondor change under Aragorn and Arwen's rule? Who are their children? What kind of culture develops as the Elves leave Middle-earth? What about the Elves who return or are reborn in Valinor? Can they integrate easily into the place they once called home? Is Valinor even a physical place?

Day 7: AUs, Canon divergences, Freeform | Nolofinwëan OCs | Canon ghosts | Earlier canonical characters

This is a day to let the muses run wild with canon. Do you want to go down deep rabbit holes on obscure canonical details discarded in the published Silmarillion? Have a Nolofinwëan original character that needs a space to shine? What if Fingolfin won the battle against Morgoth? Who was Erien, daughter of Fingon? What if Idril returned Maeglin's love? Who was Elros' wife? What if Elrond decided to choose a mortal fate? Who would the Nolofinwëans be in modern times?

The event directory is accessible here.

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anghraine · 11 months

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It's time to ask the most pressing LOTR question of them all:

Faramir is excluded to give other Stewards a chance because he was only briefly Ruling Steward.

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*Best means what it means to you!

**Movie Denethor does not count for the purposes of this poll.

#i am very tired from gardening so this amused me :P #anghraine babbles #poll nonsense #legendarium blogging #lord of the rings #house of húrin #húrinionath #hador son of túrin #mardil voronwë #boromir son of denethor i #cirion #dior son of barahir #denethor son of rían #túrin son of húrin i #denethor #túrin son of thorondir #beregond son of beren #ecthelion son of turgon

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ass-deep-in-demons · 2 months

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I love Domhall Gleeson so much, you have no idea!!! 😱😍😭❤️ I was already super interested in your wonderfully conceived Derufin before, and now I'm even more determined to bring him into my AU with a significant role! With your permission, of course!

I know he's technically canon, but the character is one of those blank slates that makes him practically an OC (in my view, anyway). When you have the time, could you please give me an info dump of everything you've created for him, as much as you are comfortable sharing? If you don't mind! :)

And speaking of fancasting, is his father Duinhir played by Brendan Gleeson by any chance? 😂

PS. Have fun with BG3! I haven't played it myself, but my sister spent a solid amount of time being lost to that game too. So I understand the fixation. 😂

Thank you so much for sending this ask @sotwk! And thank you for your infinite patience, unfortunately my new job has been hectic so I've had to delay forming a replay, but HERE WE GO!

The second I read your idea about Brendan Gleeson being Duinhir it immediately became my canon also <3.

There are some things about the Derufin/Morwen/Boromir triangle that I've cut out from Under Our Darkening Skies.

"When Lady Morwen had first arrived in Minas Tirith, she had wasted no time to approach Boromir and subtly prodded him on his designs regarding marriage. He was, after all, the most sought after bachelor in Gondor. A bachelor still, in his late thirties, to his father’s eternal chagrin. In response, the Steward’s Heir equally gently had let slip that he had not been planning to take a wife, and she had quickly pranced off to the greener pastures that the City offered."

Because of Morwen initially setting her sights on Boromir (I mean duh), Derufin is still to this day reluctant to make his feelings for her known. He thinks Morwen still prefers Boromir. In reality Morwen's making a pass on Boromir back then had been dictated more by her youthful ambition than any real feelings for him or even any genuine regard. So, Derufin, grow a pair and just ask her out already!!!

Some more trivia:

Derufin's older brother Duilin is prone to brooding and melancholy while Derufin is the funny, carefree one.

Derufin's love for Lady Morwen is rivalled only by his love for his finely made and custom-decorated yew longbow - a gift from Lord Steward given for Derufin's knighting. He has, of course, named the bow after the Lady. Boromir groans loudly whenever he's reminded of it. Derufin is so so so cringe about his bow but also INSANELY good at archery.

Derufin is one of the few people who know about Boromir's fling with the Archivist. He found out accidentally (and has been wishing to erase the image from his brain ever since).

Derufin is actually not the only member of Boromir and Faramir's friend group from their youth. The "pack", aside from Boromir, Faramir, Derufin and Duilin, also included Hirluin the Fair (nicknamed Pretty Boy by Derufin). Faramir befriended Hirluin when he squired in under Hador, the Lord of Pinnath Gelin. Hirluin (who has as of 3018 TE succeeded his late father) is a ladies man and a party animal, so his friendship with Faramir is an unlikely one. However, their bond is strong because of the shared memories from their youth.

I dread what will become of these babies during the Battle of Pelennor. Just know that I am out od my mind and I can promise nothing :D

#ass deep in demons #ass deep in asks #[wandering birds]#derufin #morwen of lossarnach #duilin #hirluin #[arda]

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istar-ingolmo · 1 year

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Silmarillion Primer: The Edain

The Edain (Ee-day-in) are men who came west over the Ered Luin (Blue Mountains) and fought with the elves against Morgoth. Although the name Edain is a Sindarin word that simply means Men, it is usually only used in reference to the noble people of the House of Bëor, the House of Haleth and the House of Hador and their descendants.

Art by Heget

The House of Bëor

The first group of Men to come west over the mountains of Ered Luin, were of the House of Bëor. Bëor, known as Balan to his people, came west in search of the High Elves or the Valar, for his people had heard rumors of them in the east. Finrod Felagund was the first elf to encounter them as they camped in the region of Ossiriand just west of the Ered Luin. There was a language barrier between the two, but they could eventually understand one another since their language was based on the old elvish of the elves in the east.

Finrod moves The House of Bëor out of Ossiriand and into the land of Estolad in the realm of Amrod and Amras of the Sons of Fëanor. Bëor became a vassal of Finrod and went to live with him in Nargothrond. The descendants of Bëor would ever be friends with the House of Finarfin, Finrod’s father.

Bëor’s fourth great grandson, Barahir, would save Finrod at the Dagor Bragollach. For which, Finrod gave him what would be known as the Ring of Barahir, a token of their eternal friendship. That ring would be passed down to his son Beren Erchamion,and then through the generations from father to son until the end of the Third Age. When it would come to King Aragorn II Elessar of the Reunited Kingdoms of Arnor and Gondor.

Notable Members of The House of Bëor:

Beren Erchamion- The Son of Barahir, he would travel into the Guarded Realm of Doriath and fall in love with Luthien, the daughter of Thingol and Melian, its rulers. He would brave the dungeons of Angband with Luthien to claim a Silmaril. His son would become the Ruler of Doriath, and the Father of Elwing, Eäredil’s wife and the grandfather of Elrond and Elros.

Morwen- 1st Cousin Once Removed of Beren (His Cousin’s Child), she married Hurín of the House of Hador. Bore him three children: Turín Turambar, Lalaith, and Niënor.

Rían- 1st Cousin Once Removed of Beren and Cousin to Morwen. She married Huor of the House of Hador, the brother of Hurín. They had one child: Tuor.

Through the marriage of Elwing to Eärendil, the two Houses of Bëor and Hador would produce the Kings and Queens of Númenor. The Númenoreans known as The Faithful would be primarily descended from the House of Bëor, and by extension the Dunédain of the North.

Art by Heget

The House of Hador

The third house of the Edain to migrate west of Ered Luin. They were initially called the House of Marach, after their patriarch. When they were given the lands of Dor-lomín as a fief under Hador Lórindel, the name of the House became The House of Hador. They were the largest of the three Houses of the Edain. They would intermarry with the House of Bëor and together these two house would make up the majority of the Men of Númenor.

Notable Members of the House of Hador:

Hurín Thalion- He was a great hero of men and a great friend to Turgon, High King of the Noldor and ruler of Gondolin. He and his brother, Huor, were brought to the city by the eagles of Manwë, which began that friendship. He would marry Morwen of the House of Bëor and have three children. One of which was Turín Turambar, who would also be a great hero of men. However, Hurín was captured at the Nirnaeth Arnoediad (Battle of Unnumbered Tears) and refused to tell Morgoth where Gondolin could be found. He was cursed by Morgoth to watch all the evil that befell his children. When he was finally released, he unknowingly led Morgoth to the general direction of Gondolin. Thus, preparing the way for Gondolin’s ultimate destruction.

Huor- brother of Hurín and of the House of Hador. He married Rían of the House of Bëor. They had one child, Tuor. He was friends with Turgon of Gondolin. At the Nirnaeth Arnoediad he and his brother bought Turgon’s army time to flee by holding the Fen of Serech. He would fall in that battle. He never met his son.

Turín Turambar- The only son of Hurín and the heir to the Lordship of Dor-Lomín of the House of Hador. He would go on to do great deeds, but the wrath of Morgoth followed him always, causing all he did to go astray. He would eventually kill Glaurung the dragon, but he would take his own life shortly afterward when he learned that last bit of evil the dragon had done to him.

Tuor- The only son of Huor. He grew up with Sindar elves in Mithrim before being driven by fate to seek for the hidden city of Gondolin that his father and uncle once visited. His errand was to advise the High King of the Noldor, Turgon, to abandon the city while there was still time. Turgon heeded it not, but he did give Tuor the hand of his daughter, Idril, in marriage. They became the second union of Elf Maid to Mortal Man. He had one child, Eärendil.

Eärendil- The Great Mariner. His family managed to escape the destruction of Gondolin and make it to the sea near the Mouths of the Sirion. There he married Elwing, who was a refugee of the destruction of Doriath at the hands of the Sons of Fëanor. They had twin sons, Elros and Elrond. He took the Silmaril that Elwing had inherited from her great grandfather, Thingol, and asked the Valar to save Elves and Men from the forces of Morgoth. He then became The Evening Star, wearing the Silmaril on his brow as his ship sailed the skies.

Art by Heget

The House of Haleth

The reclusive house of the daughter of Halad. There is not much to tell of them. When they came west of the Ered Luin, they refused to live in Estolad with the Houses of Bëor and Hador. They lived apart from them in the further north.

However, they were surprised by orcs and much of their people were destroyed. They removed to the forests of Brethil in the realm of Doriath and did not participate much in the wars of The First Age. They were, however, not friends of Morgoth.

Hurín would, in his grief over the loss of his family, cause the destruction of the House of Haleth, for blamed them in part for the ruin of his son. He would lead the remnants of the House of Haleth to the ruins of Nargothrond, where he would abandon them. Few members of the House of Haleth survived the end of the First Age to become a part of the Númenoreans.

The most relevant member of The House of Haleth, was the Daughter of Halmir, Hareth. She married Galdor of the House of Hador, and was the mother of Hurín and Huor.

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arofili · 3 years

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the line of elros ❖ stewards of gondor ❖ headcanon disclaimer

Hador was the youngest child and only son of Túrin I by his second wife, Meldis. He witnessed his father’s poor treatment of his first family, Andreth of Belfalas and her daughters, and resolved to be a kinder husband and kinsman. After Túrin’s death, Hador reconciled with his estranged sisters and invited them to return to Minas Tirith. The youngest and worst-treated, Níniel, did not come, but her elder sisters Lalaith and Nellas were glad to be welcomed back to the city of their birth and the family they had left behind. Lalaith was older than Hador’s own mother, and soon became a mentor to Meldis in needlework and philosophy. Nellas was likewise many years Hador’s elder, but the two became fast friends, and she often advised him in political decisions. Due to Túrin’s age at the time of his birth, Hador inherited young, before his marriage. Like his father, Hador wed the love of his youth, but he was determined to remain a loving husband to his wife. Thus, when that wife confessed to him shortly after the birth of their first and only child that he was a man at heart, Hador fully supported his transition from wife to husband despite the scandal it caused in court. This husband, who named himself Maerion, lived joyfully at Hador’s side, though due to the hostile nature of Gondorian politics he often went on long journeys, mastering the bow and entering athletic competitions in the various fiefs throughout the land. Hador ruled in a time of peace, and became known not for any great deeds but rather his alteration of the Stewards’ Reckoning first established by his ancestor Mardil Voronwë. On the three hundredth anniversary of the calendar’s implementation, he added an extra day to the year to reduce the millennial deficit and ensure that timekeeping was kept in synchronization with the seasons. He lived to an admirable age of 150 years, but was the last man of Gondor to have such a lifespan; after him, the lifespan of those with Númenórean blood began to wane. The son of Hador and Maerion was Barahir, named as his father was for a mighty lord of the Edain. As his father’s reign was long and mostly uneventful, Barahir gave little thought to running a nation and focused instead on hunting in the White Mountains. He was frequently absent from home, leading to quarrels between him and his wife Taweneth. Though Taweneth did not leave Minas Tirith, after one such argument she did depart to a different part of the city, taking her daughter Rían with her, though Barahir insisted he keep his son Dior with him in the Stewards’ house. Barahir grew old sooner than his ancestors, and upon his death at age 122 it began to be speculated that a harsh temperament decreased the lifespan of a Dúnadan. Fearing his own decline, his son Dior decided to spend his rule as Steward doing good deeds. Dior oversaw the renovation of Minas Tirith’s lower districts, providing food and shelter for the poor, and ensured that Gondor’s outer settlements received as much support as the capital did. Alas, this did not prevent him from succumbing to old age at 107, though he was remembered kindly by his people for his efforts. Still, he lived longer than his namesake, whose elven blood did not prevent him from an early death at age 36. Dior never married, for his desires were turned toward men and the attitude of Gondor was against such unions at the time, especially after his grandfathers Hador and Maerion flouted custom with their “unconventional” marriage. He took various lovers throughout his life, but kept his affections secret to all but his sister Rían, whose son Denethor was named Dior’s heir. Rían came of age free of her father’s shadow. She became an herbalist in the Houses of Healing and was known for her curiosity about the wider world. Once, on a visit to Ithilien, Rían made the acquaintance of an elf who had once been of the Laegrim, those led by King Denethor who died on Amon Ereb. Rían greatly admired her new friend and was eager to hear the tales of the Laegrim, returning to Minas Tirith to ensure the story was recorded correctly. She even named her son Denethor in the Avarin king’s honor. The husband of Rían was Bellmund, a farmer who dwelt on the outskirts of the Pelennor Fields who once came to the Houses of Healing for treatment of a deep cut received while reaping his crops. They fell in love and were soon wed; though her mother Taweneth was sad to see her daughter leave, she allowed Rían to move to her husband’s farm, in part to spite Barahir’s disapproval of the union. When Barahir died and Dior became Steward, Rían frequently took to visiting her brother in the city, accompanied by her son Denethor. When it became apparent that Dior would not marry, she convinced him to name Denethor his heir, and moved her family from Bellmund’s farm to the Steward’s House.

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warrioreowynofrohan · 3 years

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With curiosity spurred by some of the appendix references from Today in Tolkien, I felt like doing some light research on which First Age characters have prominent Men of the Third Age named after them, and what that might suggest about relations between groups and how certain characters are remembered. (None of the Númenoreans kings and queens are named directly after First Age characters, though two of Elros’ children are named in honour of Manwë and Varda. Parenthetically, I’d like to comment that the use of Quenya for names of rulers in Númenor is sometimes regarded as implying something about Elros’ sentimenrs towards Maedhros and Maglor, but it seems far more likely that the use of Quenya is because the Númenoreans are, from the start, interacting with Eressëan Noldor and thereby have considerable at least indirect contact with Valinorean Noldor - Finarfin’s people - who would still speak Quenya. Indeed, the Akallabêth practically states this outright by saying that loremasters in Númenor learned “the High Eldarin tongue of the Blessed Realm”.)

Moving on to the LOTR Appendix A! In Arnor we have only a few with First Age names: Beleg (T.A. 1029) and Celebrindor (T.A. 1272; not exactly the same, but very interesting in its resemblance!) and Tarondar (at least resembles Thorondor).

Among the king of Gondor we have Eärendil (T.A. 324), Turambar (T.A. 667), and another Tarondor.

The Stewards are descended from Húrin of Emyn Arnen, and include many more First Age names. For those named after First Age Men, we have two more Húrins, two Túrins, Beren, Hador, Barahir, and Dior. For those named after Elves we have two Denethors (the one from LOTR is Denthor II) - Denethor was the first and last last king of the Green-elves or Laiquendi or Ossiriand, who was killed in the First Battle of Beleriand - along with Turgon, two Ecthelions, and an Egalmoth. And possibly another named after an eagle, Thorondir.

So what we can gather from this is that, firstly, Húrin and Túrin are remembered much more positively than some might expect from the Silmarillion. I attribute this partly to the unremitting defiance of Morgoth displayed by both, and as a continued act of defiance of the part of posterity - to remember the good and great things they achieved despite Morgoth’s campaign of hatred against them - as well as regard for Túrin’s status as the first dragon-slayer. Secondly, the people of Gondor in particular are very proud of their heritage, and the Stewards in particular - perhaps in reaction to the very fact that they are not descended from the kingly line of Elendil - are eager to refer back to the distant ancestors of Elros’ line: Barahir, Beren, Dior, Turgon, Eärendil. And thirdly, that the remainder of the names come mainly from those associated with the first two points - Beleg, from the tale of Túrin, and lords of Gondolin, from their association with distant ancestor Turgon. Denethor, who died before the first Men existed, is the interesting exception to this trend, and may be an indication of relations with the Sindar and related cultural groups.

#tolkien #the silmarillion #the lord of the rings #númenor #gondor #arnor #túrin

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aragornsrockcollection · 2 years

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The post about Elrond and Elros is very interesting! I also think about Húrin and Huor, disappearing into the woods one day and returning seemingly unharmed and physically unchanged after over a year

I wonder if their people, especially those less sympathetic to the elves, thought up similar stories, of timeless creatures stealing away human children

-@outofangband

Most of Hador’s line did get taken by the elves one way or another. Tuor ends up in Gondolin and then Valinor, and Turin grows up in Doriath and Nargathrond, and then the line goes half-elven.

For “taken by elves and perceived to have skipped through time” I’d give it a couple hundred years, and see what myth pops up around Aragorn in the world of Tolkien.

Isildur, High king of Gondor and Arnor disappears on his way to Rivendell with the ring of power, then 3,000 years later the heir of Isildur leaves Rivendell accompanied by the ring of power and reclaims the High kingship of Gondor and Arnor?

That’s one bad transcription that leaves out the “heir of” and has Isildur entering the hidden valley of the elves and being trapped for 3,000 years, before he emerges unchanged but with an Elven wife, to accomplish what he had failed all those years ago.

I just think the way the events of elven history can be distorted by time into literal fairytales to be fascinating.

I imagine the library at imladris has a fiction section, in which some elf made compiling the evolution of oral histories of other races concerning elves their life’s work, and has many annotated copies of stories that men in particular come up with, along with what may have inspired them. Like conflation of the dark rider that hunted the elves of Cuivienen and Orome, something elves at that time did as well, to create the Wild Hunt myths. That sort of thing.

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lesbiansforboromir · 3 years

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Impossible LotR Quiz Answer sheet with explanations!

As an addendum, since people have been doing the quiz I’ve seen a few mistypes and awkwardnesses that are my own fault so I’ve corrected them. This means some people got a higher score than was shown, know that when I looked over your answers I saw your actually right answers and fully appreciated them! It’s good to not that the ‘fill in the blanks’ questions will not take two words in one space, so I’ve had to get creative with how I apply two named folk like Mardil Voronwe, or people who have numbers like Hurin I.

I would also like to say, to everyone talking about how they’ve never read the Silmarillion, this quiz is very purposefully almost entirely based outside of the Silmarillion. This is Appendices stuff! Indeed there is only 1 question even tangentally related to elves in here, this is by design.

@magaramach, @brynnmclean and @apojiiislands asked to be tagged in this! Answers under the cut.

Q2. Who was Dora Baggins in relation to Bilbo Baggins? - Second cousin on his father's side Dora Baggins is a very elderly woman who was the daughter of Bilbo’s father’s brother. She likes writing people a lot of unsolicited advice! THIS WAS WRONG AND SAID FIRST COUSIN FOR SO LONG AND I AM DEEPLY SORRY FOR IT.

Q3. How many pairs of biological twins are mentioned in the whole of Arda's timeline and what races do they belong too? - 2 for men, 1 for elves and 3 for half-elves Fastred and Folcred, Haleth and Haldar (men) Amrod and Amras (elves) Elured and Elurin, Elrond and Elros, Elladan and Elrohir (half-elves) Now, admittedly Elladan and Elrohir are never actually described as twins. However they appear completely identical and have the same birth date, so it is assumed.

Q4. Baldor is who the skeleton scratching at the door used to be. When Aragorn and co pass through the paths of the dead they find a skeleton clawing at a door to the mountain. It is finely dressed and described as mighty and was later essentially confirmed to be Baldor, the eldest son of King Brego of Rohan, also called Baldor the hapless, who foolishly wandered into the paths of the dead on, apparently, a dare. (the answer to this was originally Brego because of a foolish typo from me, many apologies!)

Q5. When was the Ondonóre Nómesseron Minaþurie written? - During Meneldil's reign. “Enquiry into the Place-names of Gondor” was a text written by settled numenoreans about their new kingdom during Meneldil’s reign, who was the first sole King of Gondor after both Anarion (his father) and Isildur had perished.

Q6. Farmer Maggot's particular friend was Tom Bombadil It is stated that Farmer Maggot sometimes peacefully passes through the Old Forest to go and meet Tom Bombadil, who very much enjoys his company. However! Those who answered Merry or Pippin still deserve excellent recognition, Farmer Maggot was indeed fond of Pippin and respected Merry greatly.

Q7. What was the office of the Steward originally created to do? - Keep the Tradition of Isildur When Romendacil I went to war in the east, he realised that if he died then the secret of the Tradition of Isildur would die with him. Hence he wrote it down in a sealed scoll and gave it to a trusted confidante, to be given to his heir if he should perish. This tradition was maintained by further kings and those trusted confidantes became the Stewards of Gondor. This, admittedly, is a more suggested progression than explicit, but it’s a Impossible evil quiz so :) Q8. What was the 'Tradition of Isildur'? - Remember where Elendil was buried. Elendil had been secretly entombed in Calenardhon, supposedly the midpoint between Gondor and Arnor. This was a hallowed space for only Kings at first, but in later years when the Stewards came to rule Gondor they also were permitted the secret. Cirion had the remains moved when Calenardhon was gifted to the Eotheod to eventually become a part of the Kingdom of Rohan.

Q9. At the time of Pelargir's founding, is the world flat or round? - Flat. Pelargir was founded as a ‘Faithful Numenorean’ haven on the river Anduin. Therefore it was built before Numenor’s destruction in the Akallabeth, the reason for which being that Eru turned the world from flat to round.

Q10. Which of these monarchs were indolent and had no interest in ruling? - King Atanatar I - King Narmacil I - Tar-Vanimelde King Atanatar I ruled during Gondor’s richest generation and seemed to believe that meant he didn’t need to put any work in. Narmacil I, his son, didn’t want to put any work in, but he at least assigned his nephew, Minalcar, as ‘Karma-Kundo’ or regent during his reign. So he at least did something to keep the country going. Tar-Vanimelde had no interest in ruling and allowed her husband to do most of the governence. This backfired when she died and he organised a coup against his son to hold power.

Q11. When looking back on the Ship-Kings of Gondor, King Tarannon Falastur began the invasion of Harad and expanded Gondor's borders, King Earnil-I finally took Umbar but died at sea shortly afterwards, King Ciryandil spent most of his reign trying to defend Umbar and died in it's seige and King Hyarmendacil defended Umbar against seiges for 35 years before making war upon all Harad and claiming Harondor as a province of Gondor, ending the line of the Ship Kings.

Q12. What happened during the reign of King Romendacil II? - I don't know! Nothing? Yes I know this is particularly evil of me but Romendacil II was originally called Minalcar, yes the same Minalcar who became REGENT of Gondor due to Narmacil’s indolent nature. Minalcar indeed did everything else listed as answers to this question, but none of them happened during his reign as king. Indeed, his reign was said to be peaceful and we have no real information on it, so technically saying we don’t know, and suggesting nothing happened, is actually the most correct answer :)

Q13. Who succeeded Tar-Telperien of Numenor? - Her nephew, Minastir Tar-Telperien was a lesbian Queen of Numenor who never married and never wanted too and did an excellent job and I love her. Her nephew built a tower to mope in about how much he wanted to be an elf. They are not the same. Absolutely terrified about what Amazon could do to her.

Q14. Whilst his brethren, the nazgul, were attacking the Prancing Pony, The Witch-King was waiting in the Barrow Downs and probably had a really nice time. Not much to this! Witch King was chilling with the Barrow Wights.

Q15. Which of these characters are described as 'beautiful' at least once in the Lord of the Rings? - Galadriel, Denethor, Eowyn, Frodo, Elanor, Celeborn, Boromir Yes, Arwen is never described as beautiful, but Denethor is :)

Q16. We all love Boromir II, select the similarities he and Boromir I did NOT share. - Renowned relationship with the Rohirrim. - Destroyed the Bridge of Osgiliath - Feared by the Witch King - Retook Ithilien. - Had a brother. In case you’re wondering, yes, I love both Boromirs. But this question is a fun highlight of how many similarities Boromir II has with his namesake. These are the only things they didn’t both do. Although! Boromir I’s son was Cirion who allied with the Eotheod and created Rohan in the first place, the Uruk-Hai destroyed the Bridge of Osgiliath in Boromir I’s lifetime, Boromir II was PROBABLY feared by the witch-king we just don’t know, Boromir II held Ithilien and Boromir I had two elder sisters like Denethor II did.

Q17. Hey, did you know that, from Boromir I's war with the Uruk-Hai of the Morgul Vale, Gondor didn't know peace until Sauron's death on the 25th of March, 3019? Hah hah! How gut wrenching is that? About how long do you think it has been since Gondor knew peace then? Hey wait does that mean Boromir I's valiant victory that came at a personal sacrifice was the beginning of Gondor's wars and then Boromir II's valiant sacrifice was the end- oh god... oh fuck - 550 years To everyone who answered the crossed out answer,,, you’re correct in my heart. You get bonus points. Also hey! What the fuck :)

Q18. Who was Borondir? - The rider sent to find Eorl who made it to him after starving himself for two days but who then rode to the Celebrant with Eorl anyway and died in that battle. Literally couldn’t love this fellow more. Big Hirgon energy. A hero of Gondor for time immemorial.

Q19. The Ruling Stewards, from first to last (with their numbers typed as so Turin-I Hurin-II etc), were as follows; Mardil ; Eradan ; Herion ; Belegorn ; Hurin-I ; Turin-I ; Hador ; Barahir ; Dior ; Denethor-I ; Boromir-I ; Cirion ; Hallas ; Hurin-II ; Belecthor-I ; Orodreth ; Ecthelion-I ; Egalmoth ; Beren ; Beregond ; Belecthor-II ; Thorondir ; Turin-II ; Turgon ; Ecthelion-II ; Denethor-II ; and for like two seconds ; Faramir ; Alrighty, we had a bit of a fight in my discord about this but eventually I did relent in agreement that Faramir IS... very briefly... legally considered a RULING Steward. Ruling Stewards being Stewards that ruled a Kingless Gondor. But! With Aragorn RIGHT THERE is just seemed very redundant. Still! I’ll allow the pedant to win out, ten minutes is still a Ruling Steward. ALSO! I decided that having an extra box for the ‘voronwe’ part of mardil voronwe was just mean as it set everyone’s answers off kilter, so I removed that. ALSO for all of those calling me a bastard for adding this question, @illegalstargender was the one who requested it! I wasn’t going too!

Q20. The Stewards, despite ruling through very tumultuous and violent periods, were often known for boring things (because they simply ruled better than the Kings did, I said what I said) But what boring thing was Steward Turin I remembered for? - Being the only monarch of Gondor that married twice This skeezy bastard really did marry a second time during his OLD age just to father a son. I can only imagine what a dreadful cultural and social effect this had on this prude country. It’s so unnecessary! He had daughters, many of them! One of them certainly had a son before he did. He was just being a controlling arse, down with Turin I!!!!

#my quiz

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arlenianchronicles · 3 years

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Could you please tell us more about Wilwarindil? :DD💕💕💕 If you don't mind, I'd like to know more about him! 💓💓

Hahaa alrighty then, I’ll share what I’ve come up with so far! 💕 💕 💕 Be warned, it’s quite long because I ended up taking his story all the way to the Third Age lmaoo

To start with, Wilwarindil is a Maia of Vána and Nessa. I chose these two because of a conversation I had with some fellow Tolkien fans: Vána and Nessa are kinda boring in that they don’t do much in the Silmarillion. Vána grows flowers. Nessa runs. How exciting! loll sorry Vána and Nessa I still love you

First Age

So, initially as a joke, I handed Wilwarindil over to these two Valier XDD He spent the early days of the First Age running all over the place with Nessa and trying to catch up with her; he also had to water Vána’s gardens whenever the two Valier got together for some tea (or whatever the Valar do these days). You can probably imagine how bored he got after a while loll

Eventually, Wilwarindil decided that he’d had enough and, taking a leaf out of Melian’s book, left Valinor for Middle-earth. By this time, the Sun has already risen and the Edain are settled in Dorthonion. For whatever reason, Wilwarindil ended up in a simple Edain village there, and he encounters two of my other Tolkien OCs, a grandfather and his grandson. I haven’t found proper names for them yet, so for simplicity, I’ll dub them as Grandfather and Grandson XDDD The grandmother passed naturally, and Grandson’s parents are off trading somewhere. So it’s just him and his gramps to watch the house.

Wilwarindil is very intrigued by these Edain, given that he’s never seen the Secondborn before. He’s quite an innocent and sweet Maia, and perhaps a bit fumbly loll He’s excited but shy to meet Grandfather and Grandson. On the other hand, the latter are very confused with him -- I mean, can you imagine some odd-robed Elf-like person coming out of the woods to say hi??

Well, they end up taking pity on him and teach him some life skills lmaoo Like farming and cooking and all that stuff. Wilwarindil is able to study the Edain, and grows very fond of Grandfather and Grandson; he’s not familiar with Edain aging, so he calls them both his young, sprightly saplings XDD (“I can’t even turn around without injuring myself,” Grandfather says).

He doesn’t stay there forever though. Once he’s deemed well enough, Wilwarindil goes off to travel Middle-earth! He meets Elves and other Edain, sees the beautiful mountains and lakes, and all that fun stuff. I haven’t detailed this part of his story too well hahaa There’s lots of space for him to encounter the Feanorians, or Fingolfin’s people, or whichever big-name character you’d like! But after a few years or so, he decides to return to Grandfather and Grandson for a break. He arrives just in time for Grandfather to pass away.

Wilwarindil is devastated. Very much so. Grandson’s parents are back, so introductions are made, etc. Wilwarindil ends up staying and helps around the house. He takes on weaving as his new coping mechanism hobby. He sends out animal helpers to gather nuts and fruits for the family. He forms a close bond with Grandson (cuz I like those Elf-human friendships y’all). His butterfly friends settle over Grandfather’s grave from time to time.

The Dagor Bragollach takes place when Grandson is all grown up with his own family, including a little child. Wilwarindil is able to give the villagers a chance to escape. He guides the survivors to Dor-lómin, where they merge with the House of Hador.

Second Age

Wilwarindil continues to watch over Grandson’s descendants. Fast forward, and they all go to Numenor. Most of the later descendants in Numenor go bad, falling under Tar-Mairon’s dominion, which causes some conflict between them and Wilwarindil (he’d feel guilty because he thinks he’s failing Grandfather and Grandson by not guiding their descendants well enough). When Numenor is drowned, Wilwarindil barely makes it out alive, carrying a small child descendant with him. He brings the child to Elendil’s group, and there the child flourishes.

Third Age

As the years pass, some of the descendants marry into the Eotheod, and later become part of the Rohirrim, while others stay in Gondor. Wilwarindil visits them all as much as he can. During the events of The Hobbit, he is off in the East, searching for the Blue Wizards. Maybe there could be some interactions between them! I haven’t thought that far yet loll During the War of the Ring, the newest addition to Grandson’s descendant line is a Rohirrim girl named Eafled (river beauty).

I had some things in my notes with Wilwarindil and the War of the Ring, but it’s not fully developed or finished. I keep getting the impression that he never fully came to terms with Grandfather (and Grandson’s) death, though it’s been so long ... Maybe the Valar and Maiar process grief differently than Elves and Men ^^;; So the end goal of his story would be to help him come to terms with that and maybe return to Valinor where he can have a good rest. And maybe Mandos sends him a message from Grandfather and Grandson’s fëar, which they left before departing from the World.

And that’s all I have for Wilwarindil! Thanks for reading this far, if you did loll Seriously it means a lot T_T And thanks for asking about my Tolkien OC! 💕 💕 💕

#asks #tolkien #silmarillion #tolkien ocs #my ocs #maia oc #i do have some little scripts with him loll #wilwarindil: why is your skin as gnarled as the bark of nessa's woods?#and here i hoped i'd never have to see those woods again!#grandfather: it's called age #also wilwarindil: these are my dearest saplings!#look at them grow!#grandfather: i'm already 101 #wilwarindil: oh so young and spritely!#grandfather: i can hardly turn around without injuring myself #XDDDD #mahtan

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smthrillion · 4 years

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Tolkien Languages

Elf Languages, Human Languages, Dwarf Languages, Ent languages, Ainur Languages, Orc Languages, Warg Languages, Thrush Languages, Black Speech

Again if you see any mistakes or would like something added feel free to DM me

And more parts coming soon

Human Languages

Adûnaic

A dialect of Haldorian, the Third House of the Edain, which is related to Bëorian and which of both are derived from Taliska

In the First Age it was influenced by Khuzdul, Avarin, and a bit of Sinadrin

Adûnaic was held in less regard than the Elven tongues, and therefore a lot of Edain spoke Quenya or Sindarin, even peasants

But as humans started to get jealous of Elvish immortality they slowly stopped using Quenya or Sindarin

Ar-Adûnakhôr, 20th King of Númenor, forbade people from speaking elvish in his presence

Later on Ar-Gimilzôr, 23rd King of Númenor, outlawed the use of Elvish languages in Númenor

And although Ar-Gimilzôr’s son, Inziladûn, took a Quenya name, Tar-Palantir, and repealed the ban on the Elvish tongues his nephew, Pharazôn, seized power instead of his daughter, Míriel, continuing the oppression of Elvish languages in Númenor

With the downfall of Númenor also came the downfall of the Adûnaic language, but Nûmenórian sailors and colonists did end up using it as a lingua franca

Later on the language spread once again and was used from Eriador to Gondor and became the language now known as Westron which in the Third Aga basically became Middle-Earth’s equivalent of English

Dalish

Language spoken by the Men of Dale

related to both Rohirric and Westron

Dwarves of Erebor adopted this language when speaking to outsiders as in Dwarves’ culture it’s taboo to speak or teach Khuzdul, the Dwarves language, to outsiders

The writing system of Dalish is an old and simple form of Cirth, which was the writing system consisted of runes and it was originally intended for Sindarin

Drúadan

language of the Drúedain (a.k.a. Druath, Woses, Wild Men of the Woods) who were a race of wild humans and mostly kept away from the affairs of the rest of the world

the language is unrelated to the Westron and is actually said to have originated from Elvish even though the language has very guttural sounds

Dunlendish

languages of the Dunlendings (a.k.a. Gwathuirim) who lived in Dunland, which is close to Rohan, they were also very vicious and savage people

the language is Pre-Númenórean and is alike to Haladin from the First Age

At one point a dialect of Dunlendish was spoken by the Hobbits in Stoor-kind, but by the Third Age the Hobbits in the Shire had abandoned it and used Westron

Pre-Númenórean

is a bunch of dialects in Gondor that predate Númenórean settlement

derived from humans who were separated relatives of the House of Haleth as their members stayed in Eriador while the Edain went west during the First Age

the only Pre-Númenórean language that has survived to the Third Age is Dunlendish and Drúadan

Pre-Númenórean languages of the Ethir and Pelargir merged with Adûnaic to later form Westron

Rohirric

language spoken by the Rohirrim (a.k.a. the Horse-lords) of Rohan

Rohirric is derived from the language of the Éothéod, who were a race of Northmen living in the Vales of Anduin

Has also had influence on Hobbitish Westron as the Hobbits who lived in Anduin, and whose ancestors now live in the Shire, interacted with the Rohirrim people and therefore adopted some of their terms

Taliska

language spoken by the Edain of House of Bëor and House of Hador

the people of Bëor and Marach had different dialects when they met each other and the Marach descendants actually looked down on the Bëorian descendants as their dialect had Elvish influence

later on the language of the House of Bëor was basically extinct because they basically fully integrated Sindarin into their culture as well as most of the House was dead because of Dagor Bragollach

on the other hand the language of the House of Haldor survived to later then on be known as Adûnaic

Westron

language of the Dúnedain that later on in the Third Age became the Common Speech or lingua franca of Middle-Earth

came from Adûnaic, but was actually a creole (mashup of bunch of languages) language at first, when Númenóreans started to become spread their influence in the Second Age their language spread practically everywhere in the West

After the Downfall of Númenor most Faithful Númenóreans neglected their native tongue, Adûnaic, in favor of Elvish making the dialects and the Adûnaic language become chaotic and disheveled among their speakers, but later it had more of a melodic and softer tone because of this Elvish influence

Westron was adopted by Men and Hobbits who lived in or around Arnor and Gondor (Hobbitish itself is a dialect of Westron)

Because of this Dwarves also adopted Westron as a public language, as well as because of the spread of it some Elves and even Orcs started to speak it

The Northmen also spoke Westron (ex.: Beorn, the skin-changer, and the Lake-men, descendants of the Men of Dale)

The Woses, Rohirrim, and the Dunlendings spoke Westron as a trade tongue when communicating with foreigners

Rohan under King Thengel, the 16th King of Rohan, adopted Westron in to their court rather than their native language, Rohirric

Hobbitish

the dialect of Westron spoken by the Hobbits in the Shire

the original language of the Hobbits is unknown as their origin is also unknown

Nonetheless by the end of the Third Age Hobbitish had a lot of similarities to Rohirric because of the many times Hobbits and the Rohirric have crossed paths in the past

Fun fact in the Lord of the Rings books Merry points out these similarities as well as later on goes to write a book on the relationship between the two languages called: “Old Worlds and Names in the Shire”

Language of the Lossoth

language of the Lossoth (a.k.a. Snowmen) who are the ancestors of the people of Forodwaith

the Lossoth people and their language for the most part was secluded and away from Númenórean influence but the people suffered from Angmar (the kingdom founded north of the Misty Mountains by the Witch-King (a.k.a. Lord of Ring Wraiths))

they also feared the Witch-King believing he could control thaw and snow and retreated into the Cape of Forochel which is in the northern part of Middle-Earth

besides this nothing else is really known about them or their language, though these people did know Westron so it has to be assumed they had contact with others

#hobbits #the hobbit #dwarves #elves #the Silmarillion #elvish #numenor #numenorian #westron #rohan #lord of the rings #tolkien languages #sindarin #quenya #hobbitish

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esmeraude11 · 3 years

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On the Languages of Men

Something that I wonder about? The languages of the Men of the Arda. Or rather the written languages of Men not just their languages. The Númenoreans more than likely set their written languages, the Quenya and Sindarin, to the Tengwar script. Likely as a result of Elros’ upbringing among the Fëanoreans.

The Hadorians’ spoken Taliska dialect was likely influenced by the Dwarven tongue of Rhûn, same as the Beörians, but I wonder if they might have picked up the Tengwar script due to their long affiliation with the House of Fingolfin. There may have been some adjustments to the script due to any influences from Khuzdul and the Hadorian’s written Taliska may have adapted Khuzdul sounds with Tengwar.

They spoke Sindarin but may have picked up some amount of Quenya. However, their written Sindarin is more than likely to have been set to Tengwar rather than Cirth.

The Beörians’ Taliska was also most likely set to the Tengwar script due to their affiliation with the House of Finarfin, specifically Finrod. It is important to note that their spoken language was influenced by the tongue(s) of the Avari which the Hadorians disdained so there might be further influences in the written language. We don’t, however, know enough about the Avarin elves to say if they had a written language or if they were a purely oral society.

On a side-note, it would be interesting if the Avarin tribes ended up developing a system like the Inca wherein they had an oral tongue and developed a complex and extremely accurate recording system like the quipu.

I will say too. I can absolutely see Lúthien or even Dior fashioning a form of written Taliska in the Cirth alphabet. Either, in Lúthien’s case, out of curiosity and interest or, in Dior’s case, out of pride and a desire to further connect his father’s legacy with his mother’s. But Dior’s relative youth would make that a daunting task so it could be an incomplete project.

The Northmen are likely to have developed a written language entirely different from the Hadorians and Beörians due to their relative isolation. Given that various languages were spawned from the language of the sister tribe that diverged from the House of Marach, and due to the Númenoreans general acceptance/tolerance of the Northmen’s relation to the House of Hador, it’s very likely that they retained spoken languages that were mutually intelligible with Adûnaic-speakers.

Specific groups of Northmen may have been eventually influenced by the Elves too. Like the Woodmen of Mirkwood who may have picked up influences from the Silvan Elves.

I do wonder about Adûnaic though.

It’s possible that Adûnaic was set to the Tengwar script (or perhaps the Mode of Beleriand same as Rivendell?) But given the slow divergence of the Men of Númenor from the Elves it’s also possible that some bright soul decided to create an entirely new script for the language. Something that wasn’t derived from an Elven script (be it Tengwar or Cirth).

I also have questions about the Halethrim, their descendants, and the Men of Enedwaith and Minhiriath who were descended from sister tribes of the Haladin.

We know that a large part of the reason for the Numénoreans rejection of the Men of Enedwaith and Minhiriath’s kinship was due to the mutually unintelligible languages. They spoke languages derived from Haladin which wasn’t a sibling language to the tongue of the Beörians and the Hadorians, Taliska.

It’s also very likely that the Men of Enedwaith and Minhiriath were using a script entirely different from the Tengwar-derived scripts of the Men of the West. We know that they were a very isolated group who kept to themselves rather than interacting with other Men or even the Elves. So it’s entirely possible that they may have created their own written language in isolation from the Elves of Beleriand.

The Men of Bree, descendants of the Men of Enedwaith and Minhiriath, spoke Westron. I wonder if their Westron was originally set to Tengwar as the Númenorean Adûnaic might have been. And once Númenor’s influence was lost if Westron’s Tengwar became bastardized (especially given that Westron is a language derived from Adûnaic). We do know that their tongue was influenced by the Elves of Middle-Earth.

Given that the Sindar are the most populous among the Elves left it’s likely that Westron was influenced by Sindarin. Now, Gondor and Arnor likely used Tengwar due to their descent from Númenor. And their oral languages were likely dialects of Sindarin with the use of Quenya remaining, as we’re told in canon, in the use of notaries and the well-educated.

The Sindar generally took up Tengwar for a few reasons. One of which appeared to be it’s being more convenient as a written language than the Cirth script. So Westron was likely written using a form of Tengwar.

Gondor (and Arnor) may or may not have standardized their written language after some time given that there must have been some drift after the Fall of Númenor.

The Dunlendings are another issue. They could have developed their own written language. Or continued using whatever script the Men of Enedwaith created/used. However, they may have also picked up either the language of the Rohirrim or the language(s) of the Gondorians due to repeated contact with either group.

There is also a distinct possibility that they didn’t have a written language and developed a civilization around a recording system.

Haleth may or may not have learned Quenya due to her brief association with Caranthir. But due to her decision to move her people to Brethil it’s entirely likely that the Haladin picked up the Cirth script from the Iathrim. They also likely spoke Sindarin to some degree alongside their own Haladin.

However, we do have to note that the Haladin tended towards fostering their own interests and were often reluctant to adopt new things. They could have created their own written language and kept the Haladin tongue free of outside influences.

The Men of Umbar likely used whatever later script was developed for Adûnaic by the Númenorean King’s Men.

We don’t know enough about the Haradrim to say whether or not they have a written language to go along with their oral language(s). It’s entirely possible that the Corsairs of Umbar spread the use of Adûnaic and its script across Harad and that the Haradrim came to use it. Though it’s also possible that Haradrim had no need of Adûnaic.

They may have, due to Sauron’s undoubtedly extensive influence, picked up and popularized the use of the Black Speech’s written script as well.

I do like the idea of the Men of Umbar being a large minority within Harad but that not necessarily translating to them having overt influence over the Haradrim. The Haradrim maintaining their own culture and retaining their spoken and written tongue(s) even with the significant amount of cultural pressure that the Númenorean descendants of Umbar might attempt.

The Easterlings are another group that likely have developed languages entirely separate from the Edain especially since this particular group may consist of multiple tribes of Men. These would be tongues without influence from either Elves or Dwarves. However, like with the Men of Umbar and the Haradrim, there’s a distinct possibility that Sauron may have influenced the direction of their speech with the Black Speech.

They may or may not have a written language. Or could have a system of recording instead of one.

It’s important to note, however, that the Men of Bór were an ancient folk whom came from the East and were themselves Easterlings. They were affiliated with Maedhros and Maglor and may have picked up Quenya and Sindarin. Possibly even taking up the Tengwar script due to repeated exposure to the Fëanoreans. This could have led to them adapting their own native tongue to the Tengwar script. Or they could have simply used Tengwar for Quenya and Sindarin and retained their own written language, if they had one.

The Hillmen of Eriador were likely either descendants of the Men of Bór or the Men of Enedwaith. As such they likely used whatever written and oral languages they inherited from either group. Possibly also picking up influences from the Arnorians.

We know practically nothing of the Men of Khand. We don’t know if they had a spoken tongue, though we can guess since Variag may have been a term in their language, or a written language. But given that most civilizations create a written script it’s very likely that they did have one.

It’s also possible that their native language (and script) came under the influence of Sauron after he fled to Mordor and took control of the eastern half of the continent. So there might be influences of the Black Speech in their oral and written languages whereas the Men of the western half of the continent are largely influenced by the Elven languages.

I have so many questions and I’m sure that I’ve forgotten some of the Men of Middle-Earth but I think I’ve covered a whole lot of them. I wish we knew more about them and their languages and whether or not they picked up certain formats based on repeated outside influences or if they managed to retain their own languages’ in a purer form. Both written and spoken.

Sadly the Professor can’t answer any of my questions. So I’m left to wonder.

#Esme's Musings #The Silmarillion #Tolkien #god #this got long #but I have so many questions #and so few answers

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nolofinweanweek · 1 year

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Inspirational Prompts

Below are some inspirational, nonmandatory prompts to guide Nolofinwëan week. These suggestions are formatted as questions because they are meant simply to inspire you. Featured timeframes and characters can be mixed and matched in whatever way or disrespected completely.

Day 1: Noontide of Valinor - Darkening | Fingolfin | Anairë

Day 2: Exile - Arrival to Beleriand | Fingon | Argon | Elenwë

Day 3: Mithrim - The Long Peace | Turgon | Aredhel | Eöl

Day 5: Lindon - War of the Ring | Elrond | Elros | Gil-galad | Celebrían

Day 6: Fourth Age Middle-earth - Return to Valinor | Númenórean descendants | Peredhil descendants

Day 7: AUs, Canon divergences, Freeform | Nolofinwëan OCs | Canon ghosts | Earlier canonical characters

The event directory is accessible here.

#nolofinweanweek #prompts #mod post

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anghraine · 2 years

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I remember being surprised when I first read LOTR in high school and discovered that Faramir “only” lives to the age of 120. Despite his Númenóreanness and the emphasis it gets in the text, there are actually a couple of Ruling Stewards who lived as long or longer—the Steward Hador remains the longest-lived of the Ruling Stewards with a lifespan of 150 years.

But the older I get, the more the concept of Faramir living to 150 seems like it would be more of a curse than a blessing.

Okay, I hate math and I’m bad at it, so maybe I got some numbers wrong, but:

Tolkien nowhere suggests that Éowyn shares Éomer’s (relatively) long life of 93 years. But if she did live that long, Faramir would survive her by more than ten years. If she has a more typical lifespan of 80 years, Faramir would outlive her by more than twenty years. If Faramir lived as long as Hador, it would be more than fifty years.

On top of that, Tolkien is pretty clear that the lifespans of the Dúnedain were not renewed and would continue to dwindle. In Gondor, Denethor and Faramir are special exceptions to the general trend. So it strikes me as pretty likely that Faramir and Éowyn’s children would have shorter lifespans than Faramir’s—at most, theirs would probably be in line with the later Stewards, so maybe late 90s. Quite possibly shorter. Even in canon, it’s possible for Faramir to have a child who dies of old age before he does himself. Give him another 30 years and it’s a certainty.

As it is, Faramir outlives his brother-in-law Éomer, King of Rohan (eight years his junior) by some 19 years. He outlives his cousin Elphir, Prince of Dol Amroth (four years his junior) by 15 years, and Elphir’s son is only 13 years from his own death when Faramir dies. We don’t know the death dates of Elphir’s siblings, Erchirion, Amrothos, and Lothíriel, but it’s certainly possible (even probable) that Faramir also outlived one or more of them, given the usual lifespans of the House of Dol Amroth.

That’s in canon. If he then lived for 30 more years ... :(

So these days, I do think 120 years works well: it’s long enough to reflect Faramir’s peculiarities (and to add an appropriately bittersweet tang to things), but not so long that it starts to seem cruel.

#i personally headcanon that he did feel the 'world-weariness' and laid himself down properly in 82 #also by force of will i didn't talk about fourth age gondorian imperialism but speaking of :(#anghraine babbles #legendarium blogging #jewel of the seashore #/#//#///#////#/////#a #b #c #d #e #faramir #húrinionath

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fatalism-and-villainy · 4 years

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Thoughts on the second half of TTT:

The descriptions of Mordor and the lands surrounding it are all just wonderful? I know a lot of people complain about Tolkien’s long descriptions of the scenery, but that’s one of my favourite parts of the experience of actually reading this book.

“...so remote now that it was like a chapter in a story of the world’s youth, when the Trees of Silver and Gold were still in bloom” - woooo Silm reference!

Going into “Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit,” I couldn’t remember if the iconic “po-ta-toes” line was just in the movie or not, so I was delighted to discover that it is, in fact, in the book.

One of Faramir’s men is named Mablung, so more examples of Third Age Gondorians having a thing for naming their kids after famous Elves.

When they’re first getting questioned by Faramir and Sam starts telling Faramir off on behalf of Frodo, there’s a bit about how some of Faramir’s men are incredibly amused by the scene, and I love it.

Faramir says that Calenardhon was given to Eorl’s people by Gondor because it was “sparsely populated,” which is... a nice euphemism for the whole “driving people out of it” thing.

I haven’t said much about the “wild Easterlings and cruel Haradrim” editorializing, because there’s not really much I could say that hasn’t been said before, but this bit: “For so we reckon Men in our lore, calling them the High, or Men of the West, which were Númenórians; and the Middle Peoples, Men of the Twilight, such as are the Rohirrim and their kind that dwell still far in the North; and the Wild, the Men of Darkness.” Like, damn, the fact that there’s an actual explicit hierarchy spelled out in the text?? This is the Gondorians’ POV, and I don’t actually mind it as a summation of in-universe beliefs, but I also don’t get the vibe that Tolkien actually disagreed with any of it, given how often the level of virtue and sophistication in Men in the text is linked to their association with Elves (i.e. the Rohirrim are a step down for not being descended from Númenórians, but are still okay due to being descended from the House of Hador).

Faramir goes on to say that the Gondorians are losing the designation of “high” and becoming more like the Rohirrim due to the necessary emphasis they’ve put on war, and the way warriors are valorized above all else in Gondor. Which feels like it’s meant to be an extension of Tolkien’s anti-war bent, but given the proximity to the “ranking” of Mannish cultures also feels it’s playing into a set of narratives that uses a “warlike” designation as a means of further marginalizing certain cultures, or portraying them as less “cultured” or sophisticated in their own right? idk.

There’s a part where Gollum wakes the hobbits up and asks, “Are we rested? Have we had beautiful sleep?” and Sam says, “We aren’t, and we haven’t,” and it never fails to make me cackle.

That “the king has got a crown again” part, where they discover the decapitated head of the statue of the ancient king, with the plants grown around the head like a crown, is also super well-written (though admittedly I took Frodo’s “they cannot conquer forever” as some sort of “no kings, no masters” message initially, before I realized that he was referring to Mordor)

That scene with Gollum discovering Sam and Frodo asleep and, for a moment, resembling an old hobbit, is so heartbreaking and makes me mourn the fact that Tolkien was intending initially to have Gollum do a straight-up Heel-Face Turn and knowingly sacrifice himself for Frodo. Ah, what could have been...

There’s a quote about how Sauron thought of Shelob as his “cat” (even though she served no master), and it’s just?? delightful?? Is this is a callback to Tevildo Prince of Cats? Does Sauron think of all creatures in his proximity as cats?? Does he have an actual pet cat? Amazing.

#lotr reread 2020

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silmarillionwritersguild · 5 years

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Hidden Figures Challenge Stories List

Our Hidden Figures challenge ended on April 10. There have been 22 exciting contributions, and we hope you’ll find the time to take a look at some (or all) of them if you haven’t already! The links in this round-up post go to the respective Table of Contents, where you can view more information about the story. If you enjoy an author's work, please consider dropping them a comment to let them know!

--- Character of the Month Biography: Hareth by Oshun. As we honor rare characters and textual ghosts this month, we consider Hareth of the House of Haladin, on the surface yet another woman defined primarily by her [male] relations but who, with a closer look at the details of the text, begins to come to life and ask for a story of her own. Lullaby by grey_gazania. A brief interlude between Fingon and his wife. Diplomacy by Fernstrike. Elendur awakes one morning as the Alliance prepares to march for Mordor. Fate & Faith by Grundy. A glimpse of Tar-Elendil's daughter Silmariën at two key moments in her life. Comeuppance by Tilperiel. If you're going to upset the lords of Gondolin and get caught, you should probably expect some retribution. Especially if your name is Salgant. A Wax-sealed Letter by Independence1776. Veryë, wife of Arahad I, receives the invitation for Elrond's council about the orcs in the Misty Mountains. Wrestling by hennethgalad. Scenes from the life of Glóredhel, eldest child of Hador Lórindol and Gildis, married to Haldir son of Hamdir, of the Haladin. Hathaldir at Tarn Aeluin by Himring. Hathaldir the Young, one of the followers of Barahir: Tolkien called him the Young and spoke of his death in the same breath. Part of the collection "Atanatari: Of the Three Houses of the Edain". Sisters in law, sisters in expatriation by Himring. Hareth and Gloredhel married each other's brothers in a double wedding; both went to live with their new husband's people. Part of the collection "Atanatari: Of the Three Houses of the Edain". Harts and Minds by Tilperiel. A small vignette between Galdor and Egalmoth as they leave to meet the Noldor in Nevrast for the first time. Out of the Great Sea by Lyra. Vëandis, formerly Lady of Andúnië, has been shipwrecked in Middle-earth. Now she and the other survivors of the Downfall must find the strength to carry on. O72 by eris_of_imladris. Glorfindel’s mother muses on the dangers of having a child destined for greatness. Part of the collection "B2MeM 2019 Double Drabbles". B12 by eris_of_imladris. Bëor’s mother laments his choice to leave. Part of the collection "B2MeM 2019 Double Drabbles". N44 by eris_of_imladris. The eldest child of Aragorn and Arwen considers her role in history. Part of the collection "B2MeM 2019 Double Drabbles". N45 by eris_of_imladris. Ulfang’s wife reflects after the Nirnaeth Arnoediad. Part of the collection "B2MeM 2019 Double Drabbles". N32 by eris_of_imladris. Círdan’s mother pushes her desires aside for her people. Part of the collection "B2MeM 2019 Double Drabbles". A Poison Smile by StarSpray. Lady Tanith is well known for her gardens and her potions. The Battle of Fornost by hennethgalad. Bilbo asks Glorfindel about the Battle of Fornost, Glorfindel tells him of Eärnur, the last king of Gondor. Exit, Pursued by Lyra. Annoyed by her suitors, Ancalimë needs Zamîn's help. Part of the collection "Most Bright". Familiar Stranger by StarSpray. Curufin returns from Mandos. Telpaltië isn't sure she wants to see him. Tempestuous Waters by Raiyana. The First Kinslaying as seen by a young Telerin maiden. Eavesdropping by hennethgalad. Aradan overhears the truth from his beloved... Alone by SilverTrails. Makar sees one of Thranduil's sons near Oromë's forest.

--- Thank you for taking part in this challenge! We’re looking forward to seeing you around for the next challenge, which will start in just a few days' time. See you then!

#swg challenge #recommendations #tolkien fanfic #textual ghosts #rare characters

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