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lesbianspeedy · 2 years

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Someone Lied To You About Oliver Queen/Green Arrow

Or, maybe you watched a certain show he starred in. Or maybe you’ve only read his stuff post-n52. Hell, maybe you just assumed, that’s okay too, either way, one thing is for sure, Oliver Queen Isn’t Rich. In fact, he’s usually broke as hell and struggling to pay rent!

(Massive Thank You to @batphobique and @queen-lance for making this post helping me find/source all these panels! Literally wouldn’t have even half of these without their help)

Green Lantern (1960) #87

The original version of the character, practically a Batman clone, was rich, yes. Until in Justice League of America (1960) #75, the late and great Dennis O’Neil reworked his entire character, transforming him into a modern day Robin Hood, and, in aid of this transformation, had him lose all his money after a business rival frames him for embezzlement.

Justice League of America (1960) #75, Action Comics #636, Secret Origins (1986) #38

After that, and the cross-country roadtrip thereafter, Ollie struggled to find work, having a dwindling savings account, and barely scraping enough to make rent. He found occassional work as a columnist, and was for a time working as a public relations agent, though this didn’t end his money problems.

Green Lantern/Green Arrow #6, Action Comics #431 & #424, Green Lantern (1960) #100

This was all during the golden age for Green Arrow, when he was most active on the League, and during the beginning of his relationship with Black Canary. Odds are, if its before the year 2000 and he’s wearing his Neal Adams suit, he’s flat broke.

Action Comics #431, JLA 80 Page Giant #1, World’s Finest #210

It’s important to note, too, that Ollie wasn’t trying to get his money back, he was okay with making do, and even when given the opportunity to have some spare cash, he would rather have it go to something he felt was more important.

Action Comics #424, Green Lantern (1960) #87

To the point that, in a later retcon by O’Neil, instead of losing his money due to a business rival, he instead willingly gave it all away to war relief funds after finding out his company was funding war efforts.

Legends of the DC Universe #9

Later down the line, in the late 80s, Ollie would move to Seattle with Dinah, eventually working with/for her as an assistant florist and delivery driver. With the business from the flower shop and a coincidental big bag of money Ollie kept in his closet they were able to make ends meet together.

Green Arrow: The Longbow Hunters #1, Green Arrow (1988) #13, Black Canary (1993) #1

And that’s about the state he stayed in, until his untimely death-cum-resurrection, wherein he’d inheret the stately home, money, and youth centre of an old man who put his name in his will (no spoilers here, go read Quiver).

He’d continue to use the money to run said centre until the New 52 Reboot, where he’d be reverted to a rich guy, losing and reclaiming and losing and reclaiming his wealth over and over as each writer adapted him to tell their (often unrelated to his character) story.

TLDR: Oliver Queen is not the rich guy you think he is, he’s usually a broke socialist. Please read a comic book before talking about a character...please...just one...

#Oliver Queen #Green Arrow #Ollie Queen #DC Comics #JLA #Justice League Of America #he ain’t bruce wayne folks #and he ain’t a hypocrite for hating rich people he is not rich people #my pathetic broke man #seriously though this would not be a post without val and juh i cannot overstate how much my little comrades did for this #arrowfam

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fancyfade · 8 months

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The treatment of female characters between Longbow Hunters + Hunters Moon and TKJ is really not that different.

#ok last hater post #then im done #grell negative #dc comics #killing joke #longbow hunters #sexist tropes #green arrow 1987

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royboyfanpage · 16 days

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Hi, I love your page! What are your thoughts on Roy and Connor's relationship?

Hi! Thank you so much, I'm glad you like my posts :) and thank you sososo much for this ask, I love Roy and Connor's relationship and I'm glad I have an opportunity to talk about them. Sorry it's taken me all day to answer, but here you go :)

Short answer? That's his little brother.

Long answer?

I know that "fanon Batfam is canon Arrowfam" is tired and overused, but I really do think that, especially with Roy and Connor, there is some truth to it. While they haven't had too many interactions in canon, there's still a clear arc their relationship takes which I really like.

I don't like Chuck Dixon's Green Arrow run, obviously he's a shitty person but also his writing just isn't for me, but one of the few parts of it I did enjoy was Connor's first meeting with Roy in Green Arrow (1988) #97, prior to Ollie's death. It first establishes one of the most present themes in their relationship, which is the differences in relation to Ollie, and the contrasting experiences of being their father's sons. Roy's the son who grew up with Ollie, he knows him personally, the good and the bad, but his status as Ollie's son is still constantly in question, you can see it back in Longbow Hunters, Ollie calls Roy his son but still denies that that word has meaning ("Roy's a hell of a kid, but he's not mine. Not really.") Whereas Connor, there's never been any doubt that he's Ollie's son, he's his flesh and blood, but he never knew Ollie until he was already in adulthood. He knows Oliver Queen through magazines, but not personally. That's why when Ollie storms off after finding out he's Connor's dad Connor's shocked, but Roy isn't surprised when he hears that from Connor. He knows Ollie, and he knows how his fears of commitment would make him act. While this is only a minor theme of those specific issues where they first met, Roy helping Connor understand what it means to be Oliver Queen's son is one of my favourite parts of their later interaction.

After Ollie's death, there is some tension between Roy and Connor, particularly around Connor joining the JLA in Ollie's place and becoming the new Green Arrow, first mentioned in Teen Titans (1996) #12-

-which is later expanded on in Arsenal #2.

This is really the first time we see Roy and Connor have a heart to heart, and it shows Roy's inferiority complex. Due to tumblr photo limit I can't show more pages for this, but I think the one I chose is the most poignant because, at least in my eyes, it shows the insecurities both of them have in terms of their relation to Ollie, and how each of them address that. Roy's loud, he'll openly speak his mind and say what he feels, and that's why it's primarily about him (that and that it's his mini and Connor's a guest). Roy openly admits feeling inferior to Connor in his position as Ollie's son, even after Ollie's death. Connor, he's quieter about it, and gets spoken over by Roy before he can actually talk about his feelings (which is a pretty consistent problem Connor faces where people expect him to listen but not talk). But you can still see it in his body language, the shadow over his face looking downwards, and while he isn't allowed to finish his sentence you can still tell what he's about to say, that Roy's more of Ollie's son than he is. They both know that the other hasn't actually done anything, but they're not to blame for each feeling their own individual emotions.

They also address the topic of legacy in relation to Ollie in #3, and how there's this unspoken standard to live up to that neither of them ever really can. Roy's Ollie's mentee, his protege, he should be Ollie's legacy, and yet he's not Green Arrow, he's not in the JLA, and he's still coming in second place. Whereas Connor, he is Green Arrow, he's Ollie's legacy, he's in the JLA, but he's a better martial artist than archer.

I wish they'd gotten more opportunities to interact while Ollie was dead because there was SO much potential for them during that period, but alas.

And now, I get to talk about one of my top five comics ever: Boys' Night Out, Green Arrow (2001) #32. Yeah, sure, the whole issue only happened because Ollie wanted Connor out of the house, but it's also the first comic to really explore the brotherly relationship between them, particularly in terms of Roy being older. Roy takes Connor bookshopping despite his own boredom-

-And then takes him to a strip club, where they have another heart to heart.

This page specifically is so important to me, because it's one of the few instances where Connor's actually being heard. Particularly in the 2000s but also in the 90s, a lot of Connor's character was defined by him being the voice of reason, the one who'll talk people down and listen to their problems, which ignores the fact that he's actually a pretty young guy, usually younger than the people he's helping (I suck with ages, I'm pretty sure he was 18 when he was first introduced which, by rough estimate using the Lian Method, would make him around 20-22 in the 2000s). I'm not saying that diminishes his emotional intelligence, he's clearly very emotionally intelligent, but it is a lot of pressure to put on someone that young to constantly be the one holding his family together. That's why I think this whole issue is so important for Connor, it's his chance to actually just be, and Roy's the best person for that. Despite what some fanon and canon characterisations suggest, Roy is absolutely not emotionally immature. Hell, you could make a pretty solid argument that part of the reason he took Connor to a strip club in the first place was to bring up the issue of Connor's sexuality. While asexuality wasn't as popularised as a term back then as it is today, the idea of Connor being queer was very present during Green Arrow (2001), albeit often used as a punchline, and while they're there Connor even gets referred to as a "friend of Madonna" by one of the workers. And while in Roy's head Connor was either gay or just had a low libido at that time, his "you're you and Ollie loves you" speech could very easily be interpreted as acceptance of his sexuality, even before Connor himself had figured it out. It acknowledges that, while Connor's good at helping other people work through their own problems, he's still a young person struggling with his identity, not understanding why he's so different to those around him, even his father. And Roy picks up on that, and tells him that it doesn't matter who or what he is, that what matters most is he's Connor, and him being Connor is enough to warrant love and support.

But Roy also doesn't treat Connor any differently to how he'd treat anyone else. When Connor says something Roy disagrees with, he calls him out

And I think Roy's treatment of Connor as an equal is very important. He doesn't depend on him or treat him like he's this pinnacle of wisdom, but he also doesn't coddle him and treat him like a baby. He calls his ass out, when he needs to! Roy's still a very loud and outspoken person, and he's not gonna change that because he and Connor had a heart to heart. I feel like a big problem with a lot of characters who enter into a family dynamic is that sometimes their writers change who they are at their core in order to have them fit into a specific role in the nuclear family, and while yeah, Roy's absolutely playing the role of an older brother in this issue, he's still Roy Harper, which I think is crucial. And conversely, Connor also calls Roy out when he does something he doesn't like!

I'm running low on the photo limit so apologies for the quality of this collage, and I couldn't fit it in frame but for context Roy just knocked out a robber who Connor was trying to talk down. Connor explains to Roy his reasonings, and Roy apologises! I think this also highlights the differences in terms of their characters. They're both very protective of their families, but Roy tends to act first whereas Connor thinks things through. Roy saw Connor with a gun pointed at him and immediately took action, which contrasts Connor's reaction when Roy gets shot in Outsiders #6

Connor's more of a rational thinker in times of crisis, and he tends to try and think things through and avoid rash decisions, whereas Roy's very much an immediate responder if his family's at stake.

And then it ends with them actually acknowledging each other as brothers!

The ending of Boys' Night Out is so important to me, honestly, and it demonstrates one of the most important features of their relationship- trying to figure out what brotherhood means. There's not a big hug at the end, there doesn't need to be. Just an acknowledgement that they're in each others lives, that they're brothers, and it doesn't matter what that means. It's cool. I adore this issue so much, I had to make like half the post about it because it's so good and it's such a good example of why filler issues are needed. Sure, Williamson's run has it's sweet moments, but an issue like this where two characters just get to interact in a low stake scenario will always be so much more impactful than one hug in a big event.

So, yeah, I think my short answer sums it up pretty well. They're the brothers ever.

#sorry this took me all day to answer i had a lil bit too much to drink last night and had a hangover until like 5pm #pro tip don't have your first shot at midnight #roy harper #speedy #arsenal #red arrow #connor hawke #green arrow

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pluckyredhead · 1 month

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hey! if you have time, do you have any recommendations on what comics to read for a good grounding for the arrows? i know you have a roy-specific reading list, but if you have any comics recs for the family in general, or especially mia and connor, i would be forever in ur debt 💜 thanks!!

Sure! Here's a Green Arrow/Arrowfam recs list, with emphasis on Connor and Mia, in chronological order:

Green Lantern/Green Arrow: This has been collected under various names but anything with "Green Lantern/Green Arrow" in there is likely to get you what you're looking for. These are the iconic Hal/Ollie teamup stories from the 70s by Denny O'Neil and Neal Adams (originally published as Green Lantern (1960) #76-87 and #89. Ollie had been around since 1941 but it wasn't until around this time that he really developed into the character we know him as today, and this is a great introduction to that. It also contains "Snowbirds Don't Fly" and "They'll Say It'll Kill Me But They Won't Say When," the two-part Roy addiction storyline; the beginnings of Ollie's relationships with Hal and Dinah; and John Stewart's first appearance. These comics are 50 years old so they are definitely dated in many ways, but they're masterpieces and so, so beautiful to look at.

Green Arrow v1 (1983): This four issue miniseries is hard to find but I love it. It's basically what if Ollie starred in an Agatha Christie novel, and it's so fun.

The Longbow Hunters: The miniseries that created the "modern" Ollie (this was in 1987 but that's still "modern" according to comics historians). Ollie and Dinah relocate to Seattle and deal with several serial killers, including Shado. Great characterization, beautiful art. Content warning for sexual violence and torture.

Green Arrow v2 (1989): Continues on from The Longbow Hunters and runs for 137 issues. The first 80 issues are written by Mike Grell (who wrote and drew The Longbow Hunters) and they're all very solid. If you're just looking for Connor, he is introduced in #0, which comes between #90 and #91 (comics lol); he's a regular character until #100, at which point Ollie dies and Connor becomes the lead for the rest of the book. If you really just want to read about Connor, you can completely skip to #102, which is the first one he stars in properly, and just read from there. He's delightful in them and the art is solid. Content warning in that Connor's globetrotting adventures mean a lot of ethnic stereotypes and orientalism, sadly.

Green Arrow v3 (2001): This is the book where Ollie comes back. It begins with "Quiver" by Kevin Smith and Phil Hester which is my FAVORITE GA book of all time and serves up Arrowfamily in a way it's never been served before: we get Dinah, Roy, Connor, AND this story introduces Mia! This volume unfortunately gets worse as it goes along and by #60 it is hot garbage but I would recommend the following key issues:

#11-15, "Sounds of Violence," in which Connor gets shot and Ollie loves him so so so much.

#32, in which Roy and Connor bond.

#34-39, in which the Arrowfam fights the Riddler and Demons; a very good Mia story.

#43-45, in which Mia is diagnosed as HIV positive and becomes the new Speedy.

Green Arrow v I don't even know anymore, the Rebirth volume (2016): After about a decade of just unreadably horrible comics, this is very much a return to form for Ollie: he's a swashbuckler who is dating Dinah and raging against injustice again, and that's how I like him. It's not a perfect comic but it was such a breath air after so many years of crap.

Green Arrow v who knows (2023): This is the current comic and it is a shot of joy straight to my heart every single month. HIGHLY RECOMMENDED.

#green arrow #oliver queen #connor hawke #mia dearden #speedy #arrowfam #comics recs

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