#generally i think that i just look more for wlw rep than i do for mlm; idk why that is..

[booksandpaperss]

elli booksandpaperss hello fellow sex education enjoyer. do you have any favorite character or characters in that show. i am very interested to hear your thoughts

I would like to start this out by saying this ask out of context would be hilarious to someone who didn’t know you were referring to a TV show while reading the first sentence kdjjsbs

but hiiiii omg thank u for this ask I literally love that show so much omfg it is rlly does cover a lot of different sexual experiences for teenagers (both queer and otherwise) and it is so genuine with its characters (and btw quite honestly its what a lot of people think heartstopper is in terms of queer rep and more soooooo)

its hard to say I have a favorite character because all of the major teen characters have found a place in my heart in their own way because every single one of them is so well written but! if I had to be forced to pick one favorite character I think it would be Eric. I adore his storyline in every season but I think the reason I would say he’s my favorite is because of season 3, I love the way he gets to explore his queerness in the context of his culture and I liked seeing how it impacted his relationship with Adam bc it showed that those two were having two very different queer experiences and how that was okay, and it was beautiful how going to Nigeria helped Eric figure out how he wanted to be his most authentic self. I also really loved how it put Eric’s black queerness specifically front and center for the season because rarely do you ever have shows that actually acknowledge that the POC queer experience can be different from the white queer experience, much less show it so beautifully and honestly. whiteness as a political concept and queerness aren’t compatible so it’s extremely ironic that most queer shows never really bother to show that. I also just really adore Eric as a character, the way he interacts with the other characters and with himself makes the general storyline so much richer, and I love his friendship with Otis almost as much as I love Maeve and Aimee’s friendship <3

other than Eric I can’t exactly say I have any other one fave but my other top characters if I had to pick would probably to Ola, Lily, and Maeve. I’m literally in love with Maeve, and Ola and Lily individually are great characters, plus I love their relationship (also they’re a great example of how to have a wlw couple that while isnt really the primary romance of the show still gets a storyline that actually gets attention outside of when it’s only convenient for the mlm and het couples yes heartstopper I’m looking at you I’m still pissed abt how Tara and Darcy literally felt like props to taoelle and nick and Charlie, ola and Lily have their own dynamic as well as their own development and issues and they never felt like props to Eric and Adam or Otis and Maeve)

and ofc an honorable mention goes to my girl Ruby, to me she was part of why season 3 was so good (can u tell season 3 is my favorite season lol). but SEE WHAT I MEAN I can’t rlly pick one character cuz I love them all since they’re all just so well written like in terms of character writing I’d say it’s easily one of the best Netflix shows

anyways feel free to ask me abt sex education anytime I love that show SO much and bee I hope u don’t mind that I used ur ask as an excuse to write an mini essay lol

#bee <3 #booksandpaperss asks #sex education #sex ed netflix

[theinvisiblemuseum]

how about......people demanding wlw rep then never actually engaging with it because the only thing they care about is woke points☕

this really was the wrong day for me to rb this game because i'm seriously genuinely going to be a major cunt about it and i dgaf. that's your warning.

so. here's what i think. in very general terms.

if you don't want to read below the cut (valid) here's all i'll say: stop, actually. i don't want need or care about the megaviral wlw fanfictions of your dreams, because that's not how i choose to engage with fandoms. i already make and engage with the kind of content i want to see which (surprise!) includes a lot of wlw content, but i don't see the need to force moral superiority down people's throats over it. i don't give two shits if anyone other than me is making wlw content. this is fanfiction. fanart. etc. people are allowed to write or engage with whatever they want, HOWEVER if you're throwing a fit over not having enough wlw content and can't name a woman off the top of ur head, that seems like a you problem, idk. basically i choose to actively NOT engage with the type of people screaming crying and pissing themselves over content that already exists that they can't be bothered to look for because appearances and #feminism are all that matters.

if you're here, i'm going to get more cunty, not sorry, you were warned.

the demand for wlw rep is absolutely just dog whistling to seem holier than thou, and like, whatever, most of this shit originates on twitter and tiktok and i've never listened to a word a twitter or tiktok user has said and i won't start now so on the whole i can just put my metaphorical headphones on and tune it out and keep doing my thing, yk? but when it permeates my little den of horror and my brain starts scratching itself, well, i find that sometimes i need to be an asshole and sometimes is right now.

it's not actually a fandom sexism/misogyny issue it's an issue of wanting validation to enjoy certain things, because those things are only cool if the hivemind says so, right? i'm no political expert but i know enough to know that cultlike thought patterns don't lead anywhere good. i've seen zombie movies. i live in america. LOL.

i always joke about how i'd rather die than have my favorite ships become popular (i.e. pandalily, bartydora, lilycissa, etc) but the reason i say that is because a. it breeds discourse that i don't care about, and b. i don't want a bunch of people engaging with content they're not actually interested in just to seem woke or stay on top of trends. it just makes things worse for the people who actually enjoy it.

and while i have your attention, and while i'm being a bitch, wanna know one of the big reasons i think people are crying and whining about the 'lack of wlw rep'? they want other people to care so they don't have to. of course, they don't realize other people already dooooo care, because they're too terrified to sort by anything other than hits on ao3, but that's neither here nor there. no, what they want is for some big strong heavenly god to bite the bullet and characterize these women that, let's be frank, are names on a page and nothing more, so they don't have to. so they can keep on keeping on with the characters they DO care about and toss something around every once and a while about (insert megaviral wlw fic that doesn't exist) to avoid claims of sexism & lesbophobia. AND AS A DISCLAIMER! i don't think people should feel the need to care about a bunch of random characters if they don't want to. once again, this is fanfiction. do whatever the fuck you want. i promise it makes things so much more fun and chill. just because i wanna characterize the shit out of pandora fucking lovegood, i'd never demand anyone else does, and that's the crux of it, isn't it?

this is why it also bugs me when i see posts like 'omg i don't even care who the ship is, i just love sapphics!' or smth along those lines because like, yeah, i love women and i love when women fuck each other and love each other, but i'm not just gonna care about a ship because it's two women. if i did, i'd be more than happy with the pg spoonfed #girlcore sapphic representation in mass media, because half the time it's just two white girls named rachel and brookleighanna whose only defining character traits are that they're gay. nothing more. and sorry, but i'd rather have no wlw content than that. i can't enjoy a ship if i haven't rotated them to hell and back like a rotisserie chicken in my silly little head, often before i've even consumed any content about them. that's the fun of it! i sent like 12 voice messages about a ship i don't even care about that much one time just because i took a shower and had a lot of thoughts. does that mean i'm going to attempt to make them a cornerstone of the Fandom As A Whole and be treated like a celebrity over it? fuck no. i'm just here because i like to have fun and talk to people about characters we all enjoy and create so much lore in my head that only 2 people will ever know about simply because i'm passionate about it and that passion is really enjoyable to me. fandom is a community to me, not a hierarchy, like tiktok or twitter would have you believe, and i think that's what this whole conversation about wlw rep is missing right from the jump. (ta da! i circled back to the point at hand in the end. my tangent had a point!)

yeah so that's my two cents. lol.

#organ donations #yizyaz #if you read all this sorry #or you're welcome #take your pick

[leighlew3]

Hi Leigh!

I hope you don't mind me asking this, but because of your knowledge of the industry, I'm genuinely curious about your thoughts on the whole Warrior Nun situation. With everything going on - fandom noise, all the articles, Netflix CEO commenting, etc - what do you, realistically, think is going to happen? Not only with the show itself but also within the industry. Like, do you think it will have an impact in any way? I've personally never witnessed a streaming service getting so much negative criticism before, but it reminds me of the time around Lexa's death on The 100 and all that followed. It feels like "bury your gays" turned into "cancel your gays" and if nothing else, I just hope all these WLW shows getting cancelled leads to some changes - but again, is that something you see happening?

Buckle up, this is gonna be a novel...

In all honesty if this was a couple years ago, or even just one year ago I would say it might make people less likely to drop LGBTQ shows, absolutely.

But with everything that’s happened over the last year… sadly, I think Hollywood will do what Hollywood so often does and take all the wrong lessons from this and become even more paranoid about greenlighting LGBTQ (and in particular wlw) shows in the first place, for fear if it doesn’t work out they’ll have a widespread backlash from the LGBTQ community and risk being labeled as homophobic. aka “We don’t have to worry about pissing people off with cancellations if we don’t make the shows in the first place.” aka “Not worth the trouble.” could be the perspective of people in charge in the coming days.

Lexa’s death on The 100 taught the lesson that it’s (generally) NOT okay to bury your gays. And then Supercorp on Supergirl sent the message that queerbait is outdated as hell, and just plain embarrassing and unacceptable now (aka either deliver and go there, or stop teasing it and state outright you never will). 

So, I’d love to say Warrior Nun will teach people not to cancel wlw shows that have strong fanbase, but based on recent statements it’s clear that in this case they’re running with the (hard to buy) defense that it wasn’t successful and the fanbase was “small” (?!), or at least not successful and big enough for the budget it required to keep going. So between that + the many, many wlw shows that have been lost over the last year to cancellations... it’s pretty bleak right now, tbh. Recent events overall, even beyond WN, is just likely sending the message to TPTB that it’s risky doing shows featuring (lead especially) LGBTQ rep, in particular shows with wlw rep. It’s sending the message that wlw shows simply don’t perform to the level needed. 

And rather than look at the REAL reason WHY something failed to reach a broader audience or meet someone’s invisible and undefined standards for renewal, TPTB in many cases could sadly chalk it up to “queer women don’t sell” even though there could be so many other reasons a show didn’t reach the level of audience they deem acceptable for a renewal, including but not limited to: bad or limited marketing by the network or streamer themselves and/or lack of time to garner a proper audience (a struggle many streamers have with their shows in general, even outside of LGBTQ rep), or maybe it’s on TPTB behind a show itself aka it simply had subpar writing and poor production value, or bad acting/casting, or lack of chemistry for the lead duo, or just plain terrible creative decisions (see The Wilds Season 2 making a show about girls into a show about boys) etc etc. 

I mean, Dickinson was effing brilliant, fantastic casting and chemistry, incredibly clever and heartfelt writing, solid production value, overwhelmingly positive reviews -- but it never got the marketing it should have had. And thus it quietly came and went, left its mark on its core fans, but was at least able to end in the way they wanted if nothing else, after 3 short seasons. 

Look, one of the most successful streaming series of all time that literally helped launch the format -- was the sapphic as hell Orange is the New Black. But OITNB was the perfect recipe. It was well written, fantastically cast, had organic buzz galore, award noms -- but it also had big marketing. It was the ideal alignment of ALL vital elements coming together to work. 

And I think that show really paved the way for a lot more queer wlw content to emerge, and fill the streamers especially. Alas, sadly, the bubble burst. And it burst for many reasons, including political theater in real life and an attack on LGBTQ rights of late. But for two big reasons, from a strictly industry side: lack of proper marketing for some shows, and lack of quality from others. 

I mean, let’s face it, some of the wlw series that have been axed the last year or two were not always high quality shows overall (I mean come on, some were on The CW for a reason). And it may seem like “But, cishet shows can be silly or cringey or lame and last for years!” Yes, absolutely. And that’s incredibly unfair that LGBTQ audiences can’t have shows that are just straight up camp or have mediocre writing or acting but are still loved by fans and last for a while. But that’s the hierarchy. It’s heteronormative bs and it’s not right, but it’s just how things are until we can successfully change them. The community has to work twice as hard to be taken seriously. And for LGBTQ BIPOC in particular, sadly one can stack those obstacles even more. 

So, I think for the next few years, shows with wlw representation in the TV space (and otherwise) -- well, they’re going to have to check a LOT of boxes in terms of overall quality, casting, concept, execution, talent on screen and bts, etc and then be grabbed up by a partner that truly believes in it enough to properly promote it -- in order for it to stand a real chance at sticking around. 

Warrior Nun had most of the elements above, alas much like Dickinson -- it just did not have the marketing support it needed. Meanwhile others shows had the marketing -- but honestly just weren’t that great in terms of quality, so fans simply didn’t latch on as much, and who could blame them. 

And thus, here we are. So do I think the widespread backlash around Warrior Nun’s cancellation, and fans’ amazing efforts to fight back will have any lasting effect on how Hollywood makes cancellation decisions? In the past I would have said 100%. But for now, I sadly kinda doubt it, because its cancellation was just the latest (but arguably biggest) in a long list of cancellations. 

If anything, right now Hollywood execs may actually feel emboldened to just go with the flow, take the social media fury from fans, and do what they’re gonna do -- with no regard for impact on the LGBTQ community. They also can hide behind the excuse of “Lots of shows and projects are being cancelled left and right, LGBTQ shows are no exception nor being specifically targeted, LGBTQ fans just don’t see the bigger picture. For every LGBTQ show canned, there’s 10 shows about straight people that are dead too.” And I say this -- because I had this said to me recently by someone with power in the industry. Alas what these people don’t understand is it’s NOT the same. Because LGBTQ content is so limited already that the community can’t afford to lose any more. And those 10 cishet shows that got the axe? They’ll just be replaced with 10 more next year. Meanwhile LGBTQ shows? Are less likely now to be greenlit after all this. 

And that’s disheartening. And it’s not okay. 

TLDR: I dunno how all of this will play out for sure. I HOPE the Warrior Nun situation changes something for the better, I just... right now, at this exact moment in time, I don’t feel super confident that it will. I think we just need to get through this painful period in LGBTQ media history and hopefully come out the other side better off somehow, likely after a show with wlw rep hopefully comes along soon that has both the quality AND marketing to truly succeed.

#lgbtq #representation matters #tv #hollywood

[flying-elliska]

Ok I finally finished First Kill and ehhhh very mixed feelings

It definitely did not live up to its potential. Sapphic vampire x vampire hunter should have been way cooler. I think because the main problem I have with this show, rushed frequently bad writing aside, is that its vibes are just extremely bland. Like okay I was a teen in the Buffy, Twilight, True Blood, and all that heyday of the vampire romance genre and yes all these stories were various kinds of problematic, cheesy heteronormative and frequently bad but they had STYLE they had thee vibe with the indie singers and the moody fog and lush forests and genuinely creepy moments and 00s camp bargain bin goth excessive self indulgent corsets and leather aesthetic there was atmosphere there was a sense of place they were going for IT

whereas this show has the plastic smell of something that just rolled off the Netflix factory line, the ikea type of ready made vibe-making that makes it sort of agressively forgettable

like look at that intro thing. It's so ugly and uninspired, it's like they went oh teens like scribbles right let's commission someone to do that for five euros and blur it together with bad photoshop

which is a shame because it did have the ingredients for a kinda bad but good cult fave. The intro song is self aware and funny. The actors are all doing a great job actually, much better than the show they're in, they really sell it. It's unapologetically queer. They managed to genuinely make me care about their families, which is a feat all those CW shows and their snoozefest vampire family politics never managed to do. It has some absolute gold moments ("You ate my mother ?????) and some genuine emotion

I just ahhhhhh I can't go all in on a show that just seems so sloppy and half-assed with the vibes like I have better standards than that even if yeah we are still lacking wlw rep but like I watch stuff like Heartstopper where everything seems so thoughtfully and carefully put together and the vibe is absolutely pitch perfect for what the story is trying to do and it looks like it's meant to feel, that bubbly giddy colorful bubble - grrr I want to tear the wallpaper off it's not a competition ofc but I do feel in general wlw are still getting the short end of the stick in terms of representation that is like, actually good in artistic terms and it is so frustrating because that really doesn't help getting more of an audience even/especially among young queer women

I guess I'm just gonna go and finish Yellowjackets but like it is telling that I have to go and watch the sapphic pairing where one gets her face torn off for some actual quality vibes like hellooooo

All things said tho I do still hope that First Kill gets renewed it's the first season, it could grow into it's own and I did get quite attached to the characters so I'd like to know how it ends for them

#first kill #ellie watches things

[xoxo-ren-xoxo]

Queer Men in Children’s Cartoons

idk if ppl have talked about it before but like... while it is great- seriously amazing- that we are getting so much lgbt rep in kids cartoons, I cannot be the only one who feels like there is a lack of mlm relationships still? And this is absolutely not me trying to say there should be less wlw relationships, nor is it a attack on the creators of all these brilliant new kids cartoons! Because im sure it is not their fault / they are just writing from their own experiences (a lot of the creators of these shows are queer women/nb ppl) and the very small amount of rep we get is still great, and there should certainly be more.

More under the cut

I’ve noticed that in a lot of cases, if a character in a kids TV show is going to be queer, they will be a woman (bi, lesbian, etc), or nonbinary (usually coded as afab? at least what I’ve seen). Gay men tend to be background / supporting characters at best, in a lot of cases.

I did look this up because I thought maybe it is just because all the media I’ve personally seen has had majority female casts, or something, but no, it was consistently true in a study I found on the topic, as well.

Link to Study (there is a lot of other interesting info about disability in queer characters too in here!)

Here is what I could decipher from this article. First of all, it looks like I was wrong, and there are more mlm characters than wlw. Looking at this graph, it seems like there are marginally more gay characters than lesbian:

[ID: a graph showing the sexual orientation of animated kid’s characters. Briefly, there are 50 gay characters, 49 lesbian characters, 22 queer, 16 bisexual, 2 pansexual, 1 asexual. End ID]

However, I started to think that this may be because the large majority of gay male characters are placed in supporting roles. And yes, upon looking further, it seemed I was right:

[ID: a screenshot reading ‘Fourteen queer cisgender and trans women represented 56% of the main-character roles, while queer men (though no trans men) represented 36%. End ID]

That is a pretty big difference. Over half of the main characters were queer women, while queer men made up only 36%. Now, this is taken from a small sample size, since again, there is not much representation at all to begin with, and I must note that this only takes US animated kid’s shows into account.

Usually, less representation for men and more for women would be a non-issue, and it is very true that due to the limited amount of representation in general, these findings could even out in a few years. But if the trend does continue, it will be worrying, I think. We have to ask ourselves what the difference is between gay men and lesbians, that make lesbians more visible in children’s media. There is the obvious history of gay men being seen as predators to children, and the general oversexualisation of gay men (not that lesbians aren’t sexualised, but I think the male body is also seen as inherently more overtly sexual- actively sexual rather than passively- which makes men a ‘threat’ rather than a sexual object).

Shows featuring male main characters are also often hypermasculine, making it more ‘taboo’ to make a character queer, which could explain the male/female gap in queer main characters.

Of course, there are endless theories that could be made, but I am neither smart enough nor do I have the free time to go on forever about this. I guess it is just something to keep in mind and be critical of when consuming children’s cartoons, and will be something to keep an eye on in the future.

#lgbt #gay #lesbian #cartoon #cartoons #animation #children's tv #research #discourse #i guess! #ben chats shit on the internet

[i-did]

Do you know when the racism and ableism accusations against Nora started? Because back when I was active in 2016/2017 and don't think they were a thing, or were very low-key. Was it something she said or are people just basing it off the things she wrote in the books?

From what I remember, the first time I heard the blanket statement of “Nora is racist/fetishizes gay men” blanket statement was early fall 2019 (which is so ironic for the fandom to say on so many levels lmao). There wasn’t a catalyst or anything, just she went offline 2016 and no new content was coming out and the aftg fandom is such an echo chamber that… an accidental smear campaign happened.

 Before then, I would see occasional “Nora used ableist slur” which… is funny (not that ableism isn’t serious) to me people care more about that than Seth saying the f-slur. IMO this is because with Seth, it clearly shows the character thinking it and not the author who is writing about what will be an end game mlm relationship. 

But anyways! Long story short, it's the fact that she’s an ace/aro woman who wrote a mlm book, and based off of the events in canon. There is no “Nora called me/someone else a slur” it’s “Nora wrote a book where slur(s) are used” and “the Moriyama’s are Japanese.”

Below I put my own opinion on these claims and go into more detail:

CW for discussions of: racism, ableism, mlm fetishization

Fetishization: (and mentions of sexism at the end)

To one question in the EC about her inspo for aftg she jokingly responded how she wanted to write about gay athletes. On other parts of your blog you could see she was a hockey fan and an overall sports fan (anime or otherwise) but I've seen this statement taken out of context and framed as “she's one of those BOYXBOY” shippers. Considering how… well-developed both Andrew and Neil’s relationship is, and it takes them until like the 3rd book and there is a whole complex ass plot going on around, you can see how that's just. Not really true. And considering the fandom is like… 85% women (queer women but still women) and I've gotten into a discussion with someone who is a woman and called Nora a fetishizer and was ignoring my opinions as a mlm, and I really just wanted to say “well what does that make you?” it's a very ironic high horse. She didn’t write 3 all 3 books to put Neil in lingerie pwp or crop-top fem-fatal fashion show, fandom did. 

Also, I talked to an ace/aro friend about this, and she talked to me about how AFTG spoke to her very much so as an ace/aro story. Neil is demisexual, Nora didn’t know of the word at the time of reading it, but she did get an anon asking if Neil was demi after, and she said “had to look it up, and yep, but he doesn't really think about it” (paraphrased). Obviously it would have been cool if andreil were canonly written as wlw by Nora instead, (which would have increased the amount of wlw rep and demi rep) but tbh I don’t think tumblr would have cared about it nearly as much and everyone would just call Neil a cold bitch–like people do with Nora’s other published book with a main character who's a woman. Plus they're her OC’s, not mine. 

The fact is that 50% of all LGBT+ rep in literature is mlm, mostly white mlm, and not written by mlm. I’m not going to hold her to a higher standard than everyone else, she already broke a shit ton of barriers in topics she discusses that otherwise get ignored. I’m grateful to these books for existing even if it's a mlm story written by a woman. I still will prioritize reading mlm written by mlm–and vice versa with wlw– in the way I prioritize reading stories about POC written by POC. But credit where credit is due, this is a very good story, and a very good demi story. 

Ableism:

To me, AFTG is a story about ableism and how we perceive some trauma survivors more worthy than others. Neil and the foxes using ableist language shows how people actually talk. Neil thinks shitty things about Andrew, like the others do too, and thinks he's “psycho”. The story ultimately deconstructs this idea and these perceptions of people. Wymack, someone who says the r-slur (which is still not known by the general population as a slur even in 2021 much less the early 2000s when the book was beginning to be written and what the timeline is based off of) is a character who understands Andrew better than most of the others do, and gives him the most sympathy and understanding despite using words like the m-slur and r-slur. Using these words isn't good, but it is how people talk, and this character talks. Wymack is a playful “name caller” especially when he’s mad, the foxes think Andrew is “crazy” and incapable of humanity and love because of it. They call his meds “antipsychotics” as an assumption and insult in a derogatory way, when really antipsychotics are a very helpful drug for some people who need them. Even Neil thinks these things about Andrew until he learns to care about him. All the foxes are hypocritical to am extent, as people in real life tend to be. Nora herself doesn’t use these or tweet them or something, her characters do to show aspects of their personality and opinions and how they change over time.

Racism:

As for the racism, I've seen people talk about how racial minorities being antagonists is inherently bad, which I think lacks nuance but overall isn't a harmful statement or belief. However, Nora herself said she wrote in the yakuza instead of another gang or mob because she was inspired for AFTG by sports anime, (which often queer-bait for a variety of reasons). I haven’t seen a textual analysis acknowledging the racist undertones surrounding the Moriyama’s as the few characters of color who are also major antagonists, but instead just “Nora is racist”. Wymack having shitty flame tribal tattoo’s is just… a huge 90’s thing and a part of his character design. Her having a character with bad taste in tattoo trends doesn’t mean she's racist. There is the whole how Nicky is handled thing, but that's a whole thing on it’s own. The fandom… really will write Nicky being all “ai ai muy spicy, jaja imma hit on my white–not annoying like me–boyfriend in Spanish. With my booty hole out and open for him ofc.” and as a Mexican mlm I’m like … damn alright. 

I think there is merit to the fact that she writes white as the default* and unless otherwise stated a POC a character was written with the intent to be white is another valid criticism, as well as the fact that the cast is largely white, but everything Nora is accused of I've seen the fandom do worse. That goes to the debate of, is actively writing stereotypes for POC more harmful than no representation at all? And personally I prefer the lack of established race line that lets me ignore Nora’s canon intent of characters to be white and come up with my own HC’s over the fandoms depictions of “zen monk Renee with dark past” “black best friend Matt who got over drugs but is a puppy dog” “ex stripper black Dan who dates Matt” vague tokenism. I HC many of the upperclassmen as POC and do my best to actively give thought behind it and have their own arcs that also avoids the fandom colorism spectrum of “darkest characters we HC go to the back and fandom favorites are in the front and are the lightest.” 

*I however won't criticize her harsher or more than… everyone else who still largely does this in fanfiction regarding AFTG as well as literature in general. This isn't a Nora thing, it's a societal thing, and considering the books came out in like 2014 I'm not gonna hold her to a higher standard than the rest of the world. She's just someone who wrote her personal OC’s and self-published expecting no following. I don’t know her race and I’m not gonna hold her to a higher standard than everyone else just because. 

The criticisms I've seen have always been… ironic IMO, and clearly I have a lot of thoughts on it. I think most people say those things about Nora because they heard them, and it's the woke thing to say and do and don’t critically analyze their actions or anything, but just accept them. 

#ask #aftg discorse #fandom culture #fandom politics #fandom psychology #mailob #damn cant wait for my words to be twisted lmao #sorry the ableism one is the shortest I wrote that one first actually

[alectology-archive]

I’ve seen some anti Catradora people say they don’t like the ship on the basis that Catra and Adora have the same mother and are sisters and—ignoring how much of a reach that is—I feel like it plays into the “these two girls can’t be love interests because they’re family” trope? Like I also saw this with Wolfwalkers. Taking the story at face value—a British girl learns that Irish myths are real when she meets a Wolfwalker (people whose souls becomes a wolf during sleep)—is nice. There's some 1)

2) the movie has a clear anti colonialism theme and a condemnation of the church. But it’s enhanced through a queer lense, when you view the British girl and the wolfwalker girl she meets as love interests. The ideas of conforming to a society that doesn’t accept you, undergoing a transformation that doesn’t fit in said society, and coming to embrace your true self mean soooo much more when you view the girls as lesbians. (The quote “the city is no place for a Wolf” also takes on deeper meaning)

3) Even the clear anti church theme, with the evil christian guy wanting to “get rid of the wildness of the forest” and begging god to “help him tame it” and him trying to force the british girl and her dad to conform to his rigid ideals mean so much more if you view her as a wlw and being a wolfwalker as coming out of the closest. (10/10 recommend, btw) But even though the movie is enriched by looking at it from that lenses, people still view the girls as sisters!!! It’s a big problem.

4) Viewing women in love as sisters, both in Wolfwalkers and in SPOP, cheapens the complex stories. But people keep doing it!!!

Okay diaclaimer: I feel really uncomfortable shipping robyn and mebh because they have a pretty significant age gap and they end up becoming stepsisters by the end of the movie. But I definitely feel the queerness in the movie is undeniable when you discuss its themes so I prefer to think that they're both individually queer without being in a relationship with one another.

I just generally feel that the trend of fandoms aggressively pushing for two kids from animated shows to be shipped together is not a good thing since they tend to be so young (and this is why I generally hate every single person in the atla fandom and have all of its tags blocked).

Legend of korra and she-ra are a different story in the sense that their characters are aged 17-21 for both based on the season and feature an age gap of less than a year so I feel a lot more comfortable with them.

But wlw relationships definitely have a tendency to be sidelined and demonised and picked apart and cancelled in ways that mlm ships never are. I think with lok and spop people also tend to forget that both of them were very heavily censored (although spop somehow managed to sneak in so much queer subtext that on a rewatch it didn't really feel like it) which is why the interpretation of THEY ARE SISTERS and THEY ARE FRIENDS exist in the first place, often originating from the homophobic crowd. And akdaksjdk yeah unfortunately all two men have to do is interact politely to get a massive shipping subfandom but even if women literally kiss on screen there'll be a lot of discourse over it and they're eventually forgotten and mocked for not being As Good as the rep in the shows that follow although they laid the foundation for them.

#asks #anon asks #spop #lok #text

[sotorubio]

about your last post re: june, mayla and wlw representation

i didnt know people hated june so much until i went on twitter and I'm genuinely baffled. didn't we say we wanted more wlw characters, and that we were starved for rep?

i genuinely thought that getting mad at a character who "gets in the way" of a ship was a cishet thing but clearly twitter users proved me wrong.

i totally get people being upset that mayla isn't endgame because of the realism thing and i think that's justified because there are a lot of (het) couples that would realistically broke up in skam france and yet they pull this shit with the only sapphic couple. (they literally made charles and manon endgame...)

i also get that people would be a little upset if maya ended up with june because

a) mayla is a beloved, popular couple

b) maya and june would have less screentime than mayla considering mayla happened in s6 and then they had little moments in s 7/8 too

however this extreme hate for june (and even eleonore sadly, but for her it's less because she was never a real threat to mayla) is literally too much. now i don't wanna say anything but even as a white person, it feels like they are so quick to disregard a gnc, sapphic character of color in favor of a white gc girl like lola.

once again, i get the love for lola and wanting mayla to be endgame, but

a) the introduction of another sapphic character, especially a gnc character of color, is revolutionary. i mean, think about how many gnc female characters we have in the skamverse and how many of them are woc. think.

b) maya should have friends outside of la mif who aren't biased, especially if these friends are queer woc like her, she deserves it, and her life doesn't revolve around lola, she's her own person

june also didn't do anything wrong, as far as i know she's been pretty good to maya.

i would be upset too if mayla didn't end up together but on the bright side we would have a sapphic couple with two woc, which we only had once in the skamverse with kietou and it's in general a pretty rare thing.

people are also making comments towards june's looks and i do not like it in the slighest. did they forget that june is played by an actress who could see their comments? this is not simply about a fictional character, angéle is a real person and they could be hurt by the comments.

and the way people are also praying for anais to be sapphic and be s10 main while disregarding a canon sapphic character like june..

all of this doesn't feel right with me, and i don't wanna see these people complaining about sapphic rep ever again.

right?? all of this!!! like it's so terrible to see the way ppl treat her just bc they wanted to see more mayla n i know some ppl would claim that the solution to this is "don't check twitter" which is often great life advice in general but this isn't rly an issue of curating ur ~fandom experience~ or whatever it truly is just a huge problem w "fandom/shipping culture" that's worth talking abt especially since this shit happens to characters of color all the time.

i also agree that the actual criticism is completely justified too, we shouldn't have to worship every writer n director for simply including wlw stories if those stories r mistreated n the points abt how this happened to the only wlw couple vs how the other couples were treated is extremely valid. the season isn't flawless representation by any means but those reasons are completely different from what these ppl are complaining abt like maya moving on after a break up n hooking up w other girls rly shouldn't be considered the death of wlw rep like these ppl would have u believe 😭

also ur right it Definitely feels sketchy that june out of all ppl is receiving this treatment for sure.. like ppl love to say it doesn't have anything to do w looks or race or anything other than "they just don't like her 🤷‍♀️" but that just isn't believable at all. there were even tweets saying that if they had to "ruin mayla" they wish it had at least been w eleonore instead like right. and why is that?

it's so apparent that ppl who hate on her do so out of bullshit reasons bc as u said her presence n role in the plot is actually a good thing. it makes sense in the overall story they chose to write n is actually one of the better written parts of the season. maya having someone there for her is a good thing n she shares a lot of experiences w her like their care for the environment, activism, being wlwoc, they clearly have fun together, they have things to talk abt n maya has been able to open up to her in a way she hasn't been in a long time. it's also so good that she has contacts outside of la mif like u said like!! them spending time together is a logical part of the season it's not "bad writing" just bc ppl would prefer to see lola....

i personally still think that mayla will actually still end up back together but even if they didn't, no matter how much ppl love them, the hatred n borderline disgust for june x maya isn't justified. there are valid reasons to be upset abt that but those reasons aren't abt june or maya x june like it's so insane to me that wlw couples & characters will be disregarded in favor of shipping like that's sooo embarrassing imo no amount of love for a ship will justify calling maya x june scenes gross or making rude remarks abt june's looks or disrespecting her by calling her by other month names like if u don't like it bc u miss mayla just say that... like i know i just called it embarrassing but if u are normal abt it that's totally fine but throwing a fit on twitter bc a canon lesbian had sex w someone who wasn't her ex gf who dumped her 2,5 times is childish as shit L plus ratio plus u only care abt shipping plus u don't know any other way to consume media etc

#like i said i still believe mayla will be endgame but atp i might actually like june/maya more lol #does that mean when mayla get back together i'll start calling them disgusting n calling lola lula or some shit n dissing their scenes #no bc i'm just watching this show for the story n happy abt the good parts of the wlw representation it's rly not hard!! #inbox #anon

[fandomshatelgbtqpeople]

I really appreciate that post you made and would like to say I agree! I like having canon queer representation but I think a lot of the time poor writing (whether by straight people or not) just leaves a lot of mlm or wlw characters hooking up just because, even when they have little chemistry, and it's hard sometimes because you feel like you're expected to like the canon queer rep and you can't complain about it because we have so little to begin with. There are some really good mlm and wlw ships I like, but I don't see why we should have to settle for crumbs and bland relationships. I want more slow burns and complicated relationships that slowly build up where we get to know about the characters as individuals AND why they're attracted to each other besides being the only gay people in the room. So if I can get the investment in a relationship I want out of subtext than I'll take that. (Also kissing isn't the only way to make a relationship canon to the person who commented about Ed and Stede vs Crowley and Aziraphale).

The "you have to get on board with the canon slash ship and never mention its shortcomings or you're homophobic" was something I honestly thought had mostly died out back in like 2019. I'm disappointed but not surprised that it's still going strong.

I genuinely feel like it just comes down to cis straight writers either not being particularly invested in writing queer relationships or feeling awkward about doing so, so they just circumvent it by immediately putting them in a static relationship that they don't have to spend any additional time on. I guess multi-year slowburns are going out of style in general (which is a shame, imo, even if some of them went on way too long), but m/f relationships generally seem to be developed with like, at least some amount of care.

Thanks for your point on Good Omens also. A quick look at that person's blog yesterday told me they didn't consider any relationship what wasn't explicitly romantic to be sufficiently queer, never mind the existence of aros, so that's really all I need to know about their values.

#mod k #and exclusionist? in 2022? it's more likely than you think

[anarmorofwords]

I kinda wanna write a better version of tlh where Tatiana is still insane but there's no Belial bc that makes zero sense to me

In this version there would be:

Kamanna done correctly with actual genderqueer rep and not toxic relationships

Barbra and Oliver bc fight me she didn't die

Genie and Filomena bc I love them and all the lightwoods are queer

The gracelet doesn't even happen bc I refuse to write that

Grace is pretty much still the same but she breaks off their(hers and james') relationship bc she notices that he loves Cordelia

No bad James. He's not a shitty person to Alastair, and he doesn't treat Cordelia like a sex object

Anna puts a stop to Kellington and Matthew's relationship before it gets serious. She also tries to get him to stop drinking all the time

Alastair apologizes around seeing them again for the first time. The merry thieves are a little reluctant because of some of the things he did but they don't actively try to keep him away from events that they're at

Matthew notices how Alastair looks at Thomas and locks them in the sanctuary with Genie and Cordelia's help

Grace gets badly injured due to a mistake in necromancy and Christopher helps her treat it without letting people know

Lucie meets Jesse, and falls in love ofc, so in order to bring him back successfully she asks Malcolm to train her in using her magic

Matthew opens up to his mom about the incident. She doesn't blame him at all and instead apologizes for often putting her work before him

Matthew finds out about Charles and Alastair because he found Alastairxs break up letter to Charles

Matthew, the mother hen he is, decided to attempt to murder his older brother, only being stopped by James who had been there at the right time

Kamala ends things with Charles and tells Anna that she still loves them and hopes that she will give her another chance

Anna told her that they needed time to think, and that she is worried how Kamala's reputation will be affected if anyone besides their friends and Anna's family finds out

Kamala respects her decision and doesn't contact her until Anna's ready to talk about things

The merry thieves don't ignore Christopher and they actively listen and help him

The merry thieves also aren't terrible to Grace bc they realize she's been isolated alone with Tatiana and 1) she might not understand what's saying/doing is wrong or 2) that sometimes she's trying to push them away so her abilities don't accidentally make them do something

Good tid parents

James and Alastair being respectful to each other despite personal differences

Matthew, Alastair, Kamala, Christopher, and Grace being besties, or as I call them, the neglected squad

No fetishizing mlm/wlw

Domestic cuddles and taking care of the other one when they're sick

Jesse/Lucie/Matthew pairing bc I love them and I refuse to pick between lucie/matthew and lucie/jesse

Christopher teaching Grace the elements(at the time) on the periodic table

Tatiana dies at the end yay

It's very unpolished and I'm open to b hearing any feedback and/or suggestions that anyone may have

The idea came to me and I decided it would be best if I told someone before I forgot

hi, I'm sorry it took so long,but I wanted to properly answer this and I keep having either internet connection issues or little time

DON'T BE SHY, WRITE THIS 👀

In all seriousness tho... THIS IS ABSOLUTE PERFECTION?!? I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHERE TO START I AM UTTERLY IN LOVE WITH THIS IDEA, I NEED IT

Look, I've been on the verge of rewriting ChoI, and I keep saying I want someone to write a TLH that will live up to its potential, but I've never actually came up with a proper idea for it, and you?!! YOUR BRAIN DARLING THIS IS GENIUS

ok hold up I'll just react to each and every single one so

yes please?!? I mean it started off so sweet in EEV?! Also actually genderqueer Anna and not dancing around the subject like CC is doing now?! That's what they deserve, and that's what we all deserve too

yesss please. also just,,,, Barbara, the feminine, not-wanting-to-fight-which-doesnt-make-her-less-badass queen that she is, getting the page space and appreciation she deserves

that's actually brilliant?!? it would be so great, just imagine the new girl arrives for her travel year and Genie is completely awestruck. I'm so invested in Joshwood it's difficult to imagine not having them, but this is actually the only valid alternative?!

ok that's fine. I think it could still happen and be done well, but tbh for now... the gracelet doesn't seem to have done anything relevant to the plot itself? I mean yeah it messed up James's life and Jordelia, but what did it give Belial? Tatiana? nothing. It makes no sense atm.

could be! maybe she's still encouraged by Tatiana to befriend/seduce him, but without the gracelet it doesn't work out? or maybe James somehow manages to realize that she's in danger and he actually like,,,, kidnaps her? idk idk

yes. YES. just,,,,z James is a sweet compassionate literature nerd who accidentally makes a good leader and he actually cares about people, and not just judges them from his high horse; he does still have hero syndrome, but he's kind and respectful and overall a good character

ANNA INTERVENES ABOUT KELLINGTON PLZ. PEOPLE ACTUALLY NOTICE MATTHEW'S STRUGGLES. JAMES DOES, TOO, BECAUSE THERE'S NO GRACELET.

ok yes, so what about: basically TMT don't harass Alastair and accept his apology, and realize they were also being stupid and mean at times at the Academy (especially Math). Matthew doesn't want to accept Alastair's apology, because of The Sin, but his behaviour alerts the rest of TMT and they inquire what's wrong and he tells them about the sin and that's how he later tells his parents (because his friends encourage him) and as you say, she just hugs him and reassures him it's not his fault; so after that Matthew slowly begins to heal and accepts it wasn't Alastair's fault, and also since they've kind of adopted/started including Alastair in things, he can't help but notice he's actually changed and he even starts to grow fond of him

then like you said, Matthew notices Thomas likes Alastair PLEASE HE SO WOULD. I'm not sure about the Sanctuary, if it actually happens (I'll get to why later on), but him and Lucie get really invested in the matchmaking schemes, they include Genie/Kamala because these two are friends with Alastair (both? Or at this point only Kamala?) but they also share some Moments during their scheming/talking about love 👀 (yes I'm a Fairdale shipper, I think it's time to expose myself lol)

Which leads me to (sorry I'm going off order rn) YES YES YES LUCIE AND MATH PLEASE. A FELLOW SHIPPER, HELLO, NICE TO MEET YOU. But since we're actually fixing him then we can give Jesse a personality and I'm totally down for poly Math/Lucie/Jesse

Lucie seeking Malcolm's help in secret, morally gray heroine style?!? no, it's probably not legal. but also has there ever been a Shadowhunter like her? If the Law doesn't expect such situations, it can't really forbid them...

Plz Matthew ready to strangle the carrot when he learns about their relationship, YES. sure, maybe he's still not the biggest fan of Alastair, but he's seen how much the boy's been through and starts to develop an attachment to him, and besides, NO ONE DESERVES TO BE GROOMED AND TREATED LIKE THAT. He's SO MAD at Charles, and he confronts him about it - remembering Kellington as he does, and it makes him sick to think his brother would do the same thing to someone. Maybe he gets very emotional over this and later finally tells his friends about Kellington? Maybe they didn't know before, only Anna did? So when they all realize what was happening then they comfort him etc? Or maybe it's just Alastair that learns now, and the others knew before, and they share a bonding moment over that?

Injured Grace seeking Kit's help is a genius idea I didn't know I needed

Kamanna giving each other time and space and deciding they need to question their relationship and figure out if it actually makes sense would be great. Anna realising she's very privileged and Kamala doesn't have those same opportunities, and also in general realising coming out should never be pressured or forced. Just,,,, Anna being self-aware and respectful towards Kamala. Well-written Anna. Plz. Also Kamanna is actually developed and not just "in love" because,,,,, they're attracted to each other? Maybe even remaining friends while Anna makes up their mind?

yeah just TMT being more compassionate and less judgy because they're not written by Judith so her bias isn't projected onto them

It's not a want, it's a need. They adopt Alastair and Grace eventually. Like, maybe not literally - although, Grace? - but you know what I mean.

I think they all should just have various friendship dynamics and switch between them, because people need more than one friend group

no fetishizing, no watching your brother make out with his lover, yessss

yes domestic cuddles, affection, taking care of wounds, all those things. plz.

Gracetopher bonding over science yes

obviously. or maybe she's imprisoned?!

ok, now for some more notes/my ideas etc., if you don't mind:

I actually think Belial could still be featured? After all, I don't think Tatiana could do much on her own, and since she seeks help from demons, it makes sense to include a Greater Demon as well. But Belial would have to be a stronger villain, written better; I'll think more about this

if that was the case, the serial killer plot could still happen, but be done better. and it would allow for a scenario I talked about with @littlx-songbxrd to happen, where it's Alastair who's falsely accused of murder. It creates a great opportunity to explore some things, because we know Alastair is much more likely to be seriously suspected, considering all the prejudices and bad rep his family has and all that

...what do you say to well-written Jordelia? 👀 Cordelia hasn't been obsessively in love with James since childhood, she only had a crush then. And now that they meet again, she's fond of him but not in love, not straight away. They're both grown up, and different people, but as they spend more and more time together, they fall in love. What if Cordelia gets to flirt with some other boys first? What then. What if she ends up choosing James, instead of going for the only boy she's ever had feelings for and idealized since childhood. What if we even make it friends-to-lovers and have James be a little jealous at some point?! but not in a possessive awful way, just "oh damn oh no"

Now I won't know peace until this exists BUT THANK YOU

#ask answered #thank you this is brilliant #alt tlh #save for later #the last hours #tlh #anti cc #yes I'll be adding/thinking more about this I AM OBSESSED

[itsclydebitches]

(WLW anon) I really don’t like the “bad rep is better then none at all”. I hate that. We should want good rep, because bad rep has been used time and time again by homophobes as to say we shouldn’t get representation. To me it’s not “gay can have the same flaws as het”, it’s “fix the flaws in the het”. Also I know Renora being independent was a good, I was just saying in comparison BB. Also, yes, they were separated, but also didn’t stop thinking about each other. Especially bad with Yang.

Indulge me for a moment because I want to take a trip down memory lane and list some—just some—of the queer rep that has been important to me over the years:

Ellen comes out both as herself and as her character… years later, she’s a hated millionaire who is criticized for how she treats her staff

The wildly influential Buffy gives us two women entering a loving relationship… except then Tara is killed off, Willow goes evil for a time, and Buffy comes under fire for Joss Whedon’s everything

The beloved and respectable headmaster of one of the most popular book series ever published is revealed to be gay… except it doesn’t count because it wasn’t in the text and now all of Harry Potter is cancelled because JKR is transphobic

Kurt is an unambiguously gay teen in a hugely popular TV series, acting as one of the first overt representations a generation has seen… except he’s way too stereotypical and Glee is a joke now

Orange is the New Black gives us a number of queer women, including one of our first trans characters… but isn’t it problematic that they’re all criminals?

Brooklyn Nine-Nine hosts an out gay captain and gives us a bisexual coming out story that resonated with many, myself included… except now we’re supposed to hate all the characters on principle because they’re cops

Korra and Asami walk off into the spiritual sunset together… but they never kiss or anything, so that doesn’t count either

Steven Universe gives us a queer relationship and a wedding… but it’s an issue that this is just a kid’s show and, really, does it count when the rep is embodied by space rocks whose entire species only creates a single gender? Feels like a cop-out

Same with Good Omens. Yeah, Crowley and Aziraphale clearly love each other… but you never see them kiss or declare their intentions. It’s great ace rep though! Unless you want to level the criticism that asexual characters are always nonhuman

A character intended to be a minor guest becomes a show staple and eventually declares his love for one of the two main characters… except then Castiel immediately dies, Dean doesn’t respond, and they never meet on screen again

I finished Queen’s Gambit the other day and the main character had a one-night stand with a woman! … but everyone is talking about how bisexuality is used to represent her lowest point, so that’s bad too

I could go on for literal pages. Some of these arguments I agree with (Dumbledore), others I’ve pushed back against quite strongly (Crowley and Aziraphale), but all of them are valid criticisms depending on what part of the queer community you’re in and what your expectations are. My point here is that it’s all “bad rep.” I mean that seriously. If anyone reading this is scrambling for the comment section to say why [insert media title here] is actually fantastic rep, I guarantee that someone disagrees. Or if they don’t, give it some time. Just wait until the characterization becomes offensively outdated, or another part of the story ruins the relationship, or it comes out that the author did something truly horrific, or the terminology changes and it’s labeled as “problematic” now… just wait. At some point, any rep we feel is good rep now will be criticized, cancelled, and dragged through the mud. The rep that I personally haven’t seen much push-back against—like the beloved Captain Jack Harkness in Doctor Who, or Schitts Creek that just won a ton of awards—is wrapped up in the criticism, “So it’s all just about able-bodied, cis, (mostly) white dudes, huh? :/”  Even the argument that queer characters need to be written by queer authors doesn’t hold up. I absolutely adored Sense8. “Wow, a gay main character in a loving relationship with another gay man, both of whom enter a loving poly relationship with a woman, another lesbian trans main character who marries the love of her life on screen, an entire cast arguably queer due to them sharing orgy scenes centered around the emotional intimacy they share, everyone survives, and this was written by two trans women! Great, right?” Well, not according to the wealth of opinions explaining how Sense8 is horrible rep, actually. Every piece of rep we’ve got is either currently flawed or will become flawed in the future.

So what do we do with that?

That’s where my “I’d rather have bad rep than no rep at all” comes in. For me, that’s not waving the white flag. That’s not an oath that I won’t expect better rep in the future (I do) or that I won’t criticize the rep we get (BOY DO I), but rather just an acknowledgement of reality. The vast majority—if not the entirety—of rep is “bad rep” in one way or another, but I’d still rather have it than nothing at all. Because I’ve lived just long enough and studied media just enough to know what nothing looked like. It was watching all queer characters meet untimely deaths. Before that it was watching queer characters be derided and treated as jokes. Before that it was nothing but coding, where queer characters didn’t exist except in our own headcanons and interpretations. Obviously “bad rep” covers a very large range of issues and “They haven’t even confirmed this relationship yet” is a bigger issue than “This queer character embodies one or two, mild stereotypes,” but ultimately I’d take any of it over nothing at all. And enjoying what we’ve currently got doesn’t mean I’m willing to settle for it indefinitely.

To use an iffy analogy, imagine there’s a factory. This factory makes plates. So. Many. Plates. Big plates, small plates, plain plates, decorative plates, plates for every possible occasion in your life—and everyone with a steak for dinner is pleased as punch. You though? You’ve got soup. You need a bowl. Your entire life you’ve been struggling to eat your soup off a plate (it doesn’t work) and listening to friends and family claim that the plate with a slightly raised edge could be a bowl if you squint (it’s not). To say it’s frustrating is an understatement.

But then, one day, the factory starts producing bowls too. Hurray! Except as soon as you get your hands on one, you’re told you really shouldn’t be using it, let alone praising it. Look at the state of that bowl! It’s cracked right down the middle, ugly as hell, shoddily made all around… you’re not really going to settle for that, are you? And no, you obviously still want the factory to produce better bowls, but at the same time, this is a bowl. You’ve never gotten one before and you can finally enjoy your meal, even if the soup leaks at times. Sometimes a lot. But you’re still feeling better about your meal than you ever have before. And what you then begin to realize is that lots of the plates are a mess too. They also have cracks, they’re also ugly, many are also shoddily made. The difference is that the factory is producing so many plates at such a rapid pace that every steak eater is able to get by. One plate breaks completely? You’ve got a thousand fallbacks. Don’t like the look of this one? A thousand other options. You disagree about what “shoddily made” means? Luckily there are enough plates that everyone can find what they prefer! But the bowls… there’s only a few. Some are really expensive. Others are only available for a limited time before they suddenly disappear. Your bowl breaks and you have to wait months, years sometimes, to get another one. You’re constantly told to go buy this one obscure bowl no one else has heard about and yeah, you like it... but you’d also like to buy one of the bowls everyone is already enjoying. You find yourself looking at the plates and thinking, “I’d like that. I’d like to have so many options that the flaws, while still a problem, are much more bearable.” You’re still going to demand that the factory get its shit together, you’re still going to (rightly) complain about the awful quality of your bowl… but it’s still nice to have a bowl, period. There are still things you like about it, even if it’s a mess: the color, the size, the beauty of the shape of it. Its potential. You’re still pleased you have something to enjoy and that helps serve the need you’re looking to fill, even if that something is imperfect.

That’s “bad rep is better than no rep.” To bring this very long response back to Blake/Yang, I don’t think their problems negate their benefits. Is their relationship currently non-canonical and filled with a number of writing issues everyone has a right to be angry about? Yup. I express that anger a great deal. Are they still half of a team on a very popular show that is (presumably) set to be canonized as queer? Yup. I’d much rather live in a world where big shows like RWBY try to include queer rep and fail in a multitude of ways—with the expectation and hope that they’ll continue to improve—rather than in a world where authors a) don’t care or b) are too scared to try. Because that’s where a “good rep or no rep” stance leads. The danger isn’t homophobes because they’re, well, homophobes. It doesn’t matter if the rep is good or not, they hate it on principle. But if queer authors writing for other queer identities, or allies writing queer identities, or even queer authors writing their own experiences (like in Sense8) continually come under non-stop fire for their attempts… there’s a good chance that many people won’t ever try. We’re already seeing that here on tumblr with young authors admitting that they wouldn’t touch [insert topic here] with a ten-foot pole because just look at what happens when you get it wrong. And authors will get things wrong because authors are fallible people forever unlearning their own ignorance. So though it might sound strange coming from a blog that has turned into such a RWBY critical space, I am glad that RWBY’s queer rep exists, despite all the frustrations that I share about it. I think a RWBY with various types of “bad” queer rep is better than a RWBY with no queer rep at all, particularly when “bad” or “good” is so intensely subjective. There’s a middle ground between passively accepting whatever we’re given, and tearing into rep with such ferocity that we end up rejecting it all. There’s a space where we can be critical of rep and embrace the parts that work for us, simultaneously.

I hope and expect the het rep will get better too, but… that’s never going to happen instantly. To quote RWBY, there’s no magic wand we can wave to fix all our problems. Rather, it will take slow, plodding, meandering, lifetimes’ worth of work to see that change occur and I personally don’t want to spend the one life I have waiting for that perfect rep to show up. Because it’s unlikely that it will. While we work, I’d rather find the good in what rep we’ve already got.  

#rwby #queer #mymetas #Anonymous

[takaraphoenix]

I see you like TVA and BTVS both. I’ve read the Vampire Diaries books but didn’t watch much of the show but I heard someone recently say that it was better than Buffy. First thought was to puff up and be offended for the show, because from what I’ve seen and read I still don’t feel this is true, BUT I am very curious to see how someone who *has* watched both feels on this topic? What do you think?

Sorry for the book above lol, just curious! ☺️

*offended BtVS fan noises* It is NOT better than Buffy what the fuq.

Like. It's a good show. It is genuinely, after BtVS, my favorite vampire show. There certainly are parallels to be drawn where you can tell the author definitely watched BtVS. But it's not better than that.

The fact alone that this show shelved its lead for an entire season and awkwardly shifted POVs gives it quite some point reductions, imo. And sure sure there are people who claim that that's not the case because Stefan is the "real" protagonist but... he's not. Not in the narrative this show had built up. It was always centered around Elena and the boys were always the two ends of her love-triangle and Stefan had never had the equal level of protagonist-focus as Elena.

That would have been as if BtVS would have had a whole season between 5 and 6, where we just follow the Scoobies around without Buffy while she's dead, until they bring her back. Sure, as a die-hard BtVS fan I would have actually watched the hell out of that (and I still demand they give me at least a comic run about that time), but it'd have felt majorly off and just... wrong, to do that to your lead.

(And don't at me about how this wasn't really planned and about IRL stuff and the actress. The show, genuinely, could have ended that season too, imo. It was about the money and making more.) Another major-major reason why TVD is inferior to BtVS is the queer rep. BtVS had two main characters who were lesbians, one of them one of the three core members of the show that stuck throughout all of its run, the other who admittedly did get bury-your-gayed (which I still consider one of BtVS’s biggest flaws), but they introduced another queer character after her death and didn’t just have that be it. TVD had two throwaway minor wlw characters and one mlm character who were introduced late in the show, lasted less than a full season and were all killed off (not counting the SUPER minor gays in either because... let's be real, they barely count anyway). Not one queer character survived the entire show (or, heck, a whole season), much less was an actual main character. To be en par, Bonnie should have been queer, presently queer too. But Bonnie, even as a straight character, barely had a love-life, compared to the constant drama around her white co-leads' love-lives. Both shows have Bianca Lawson looking gorgeous though. But at this point in time, I also think that Bianca Lawson's presence is like a must for a supernatural show. *looks at Teen Wolf* So yeah, I don't want to turn this into a twenty slide power point presentation on why BtVS is the superior show and I do think that tastes differ and to some people, TVD might genuinely be more enjoyable and come off as better, but I do think that in writing/execution, BtVS definitely has TVD beat. But I love them both and think that we shouldn't really pitch what few female-led shows in general - much less so in the supernatural genre - we have against each other. Seriously, this genre is very "strong man kill monsters/strong man struggles with being a man and a monster" dominated and I just love to see women thrive and see some female friendships and women lead a supernatural show.

#Vampire Diaries #Buffy the Vampire Slayer #Phoe's Random Show Rants

[the-necessary-unnecessary]

A list of all the films, series and web series that have been recommended as hidden must sees during isolation and beyond. 

Note: I have divided them into films with happy endings or not, series that haven’t finished so the exact ending is unknown I have put an asterisk (*) next to

Note 2: the descriptions are a mixture of my own and of the reviews I was sent by anons

She gets the girl

A Date For Mad Mary, 2016 (needs a date for a wedding, more about her complicated reconnecting with friends after prison but romance is cute)

Almost Adults, 2016 (centers around the broader themes of growing up and friendship but one of them is a giant gay. There is a happy ending for both the gay one and the straight one, gotta give the straights some food because they so rarely get fed)

Anne+, 2018* (Dutch webseries with fresh and new vibes with a great mid-twenties actress about mid-twenties gay lives. Everyone in it is LGBTQ+ yet nothing about it is LGBTQ+, it’s all just treated as natural and normal)

Bound, 1996 (you can't beat the lesbian noir classic which should one day be inducted into the lesbian hall of fame)

But I’m A Cheerleader, 1999 (camp and a lot of fun despite the very serious themes, starring Natasha Lyonne- one of the gayest straights out there)

Carmilla, 2014-16 (webseries based on the groundbreaking 19th century book. Some great chemistry and a lot of breaking of the fourth wall)

Carol, 2015 (Cate Blanchett movie based on the book The Price of Salt which caused issue when it was realised in 1952 because it gave its lovers a open ended happy ending)

Couple-Ish, 2015-16 (cute Canadian web series, bit on the nose but important gay, bi and enby rep)

Desert Hearts, 1985 (the looks, the emotions, the gorgeousness of them both, the chemistry, oh god it was so good. Vivian Bell deserves all the orgasms)

Elisa Y Marcela, 2019 (A Spanish film based on the true story of two women who got married with one of them pretending to be a man in 1901. A tearjerker but ultimately their love is stronger than the adversaries they face)

Entre Nous, 1983 (a French 1983 film which has Jews & Nazi's but doesn't end in complete horror. There are straights who think it’s a friendship but we know better)

Fingersmith, 2005 (BBC drama based on a book by Sarah Waters)

Fried Green Tomatoes, 1991 (based on a more obvious book, they’re sold as best friends but if you know you know)

Fucking Åmål, 1998 (one of the first films aimed at teenagers about two girls falling in love and getting together.)

Getrieben, 2018 (they're ex's and share a dog and then maybe they're not so ex anymore)

I Can't Think Straight, 2008 (cute romantic comedy adapted from a novel about a London-based Jordanian of Palestinian descent preparing for a wedding before events take a gay turn)

If These Walls Could Talk 2, 2000 (some happy and some sad endings in this film which portrays three generations of lesbian storylines from the same house)

Imagine Me and You, 2004 (not my fav but a classic and has Queen Cersei playing a wlw)

Kyss Mig, 2011 (heart eyes, a lovely film, does have maybe a bit too much man in it but he's gone when we get to the nitty gritty)

Our Love Story, 2016 (Korean, subtle nuanced relationship story)

Rosebud, 1996 (a channel 4 short with Julie Graham and questionable fashion choices. Who needs words when you can have such tantalising and vivid visuals? Teeny bit of man but it's fitting in the particular setting and its very fleeting, although admittedly nude)

Saving Face, 2004 (romantic comedy which had less of an impact that Imagine Me and You due to lesser known actors and probably partly to do with race- the main characters are Chinese-American. But it's a gorgeous movie that has a lot more than just rom com elements. The Half Of It is by the same director.

Sjukt Oklar, 2018* (very Swedish, very lesbian, very very funny)

Supervoksen, 2006 (Danish teenage coming of age type thing)

The Carmilla Movie, 2017 (based on the webseries but still accessible to those that haven’t watched it. Quite sweet and the actresses seem very comfortable with each other. Plus there is a great sex scene in it where the muscles on one of the girl’s back are especially sexy)

The World Unseen, 2007 (period film during South Africa's apartheid era with great chemistry)

The Handmaiden, 2016 (extremely nsfw but its got some incredibly powerful meaning to it especially the final sex scene with the bells. It's also incredibly shot and the sex scenes were done very sensitively on set with only women around and the director even in another room.)

Thelma, 2017 (a supernatural thriller about a girl starting college who suddenly starts getting seizures but they don’t know why and she has a female love interest)

Tipping The Velvet, 2002 (BBC series, also has a Victorian era strap on in it and Keeley Hawes, what's not to love?)

When Night is Falling, 1995 (An uptight and conservative woman, working as a literacy professor, finds herself attracted to a free-spirited, liberal woman who works at a local carnival. It’s got quite a lot of a boyfriend in it so its not for everyone.)

Yes or No, 2010 (literally a ‘and they were roommates’ movie as well as an enemies to lovers plot)

Zwischen Sommer Und Herbst, 2018 (coming of age elements, does have a man involved especially at the beginning, who happened to be the brother of one of the girls, but overall it was okay, no lesbians die and it doesn't end in abject misery)

She doesn’t get the girl but neither does the trope

Aimée and Jaguar, 1999 (based on a true story. Beautiful but painful, it’s a Jew falling for a German housewife in Nazi Germany, hence its sad as hell ending)

Bloomington, 2010 (coming of age, teacher student thing which walks that line relatively well without being too icky)

Freeheld, 2015 (an extremely powerful and important story to tell)

Gia, 1998 (Angelina Jolie gets it on with Elizabeth Mitchell in a moving film about model and lesbian Gia Carangi)

Kontrola, 2019* (a masterpiece of a mini web series with a great soundtrack, aesthetic and storyline. Season 2 may present a better future for them)

Mädchen in Uniform, 1931 (German cult classic almost entirely produced by women. Sexual awakening/teenage coming out of her shell stuff, there is also a 1958 redo which is okay. She doesn’t get the girl but it’s still a positive portrayal of sexuality where the object of desire isn't disgusted or weirded out by it)

My Summer of Love, 2004 (At first glance a coming of age movie, but has a lot of phycological elements too. Emily Blunt with a girl, not happy but no lesbians die)

Portrait of a Lady on Fire, 2019 (spell-bounding french film with amazing rawness and visuals. One of my best cinematographic experiences ever)

Reaching for the Moon, 2017 (the love story of the poet Elizabeth Bishop and the architect Soares in the 60s)

Snapshots, 2018 (sad ending but great chemistry with no closed mouthed straight girl kisses)

Summertime, 2015 (French lesbian movie- dare I say more? Sad but no deaths)

The Hunger, 1983 (a gothic cult classic, vampires, its got David Bowie, Susan Sarandon and Catherine Deneuve in it)

The Miseducation of Cameron Post, 2018 (she doesn’t get the girl because there is no girl, but she does begin to find and accept herself. Based on a highly recommendable book by the same name)

Viola di Mare, 2009 (depressing as hell but beautiful to look and the couple have some good chemistry)

#hope this keeps everyone busy :) #idk what to tag this but hey ho #wlw #lgbt representation #lgbtq+ #masterpost #og #yomequedoencasa #coronavirus #film recs

[jubberry]

As great as wlw rep is, and as cute as vanya is in s2, i cant help but feel robbed af on her arc this season. The end of s1 promised a TON of rich character exploration for vanya. Her trauma should've been carefully examined, and her relationship with her siblings explored more because of that because the whole premise of s2 was that they were gonna 'fix her'.

Beyond that, this was supposed to be the season where we find out who vanya really was without the pills, and as a person dealing with powers + her trauma and her guilt for her actions last season. I cant help but feel that the amnesia is just a different set of pills. Sure shes happier and lighter now, but thats because they erased the trauma from her and that was a big, defining part of her character and the plot in season 1.

I honestly wouldnt mind her amnesia that much if it related to her character development more. Like, maybe if she start remembering bits and pieces of herself and talking about it with her sibs, it might create an interesting way to start that conversation. As it is, she literally just forgot everything and is basically a new character tbh.

(does her emotions even affect her powers anymore? if shes so happy shouldnt there be a lot of wind or something? theres definitely scenes where she was very angry or full of emotion so how come... stuff didnt happen?)

I was kinda hyped to see Vanya learning to control her powers. She's a complete amateur but she has to deal with so much power. It wouldve been cool to see how the hargreeves would train her, considering they have such different skillset and personalities.

I've already talked about how her character development was held off for the romance. Vissy is really sweet but I still feel robbed af because... were watching season 2 of a pre-existing series. The fact that her romance doesnt really serve her character development is annoying, I may as well be watching a seperate movie instead of a sequel. Wlw romances are always great, especially since so many people watch tua. But I cant help but feel how rewarding it is to have Vanya's trauma and guilt explored first and create a fleshed out, complicated wlw character instead of heading straight to a romance plot where one of the most important aspects of her character doesnt even matter.

I get that tua wants to appeal to the demographic that doesnt particularly care about stuff like this now and just wants more chaos and fun of the hargs, but i still feel bad. I enjoyed s2, but the end of s1 really got me thinking so much about where they could go. Its hard to get that hype for s3 for me now, considering how much they didnt keep from s1.

Also I'm starting to think people only care about Vanya if she likes girls and is happy, not the messy, angry side of her that deserved to be explored in s2. I liked watching this season, but I cant but feel tua is just gonna be another generic superhero marvel movie. Since what really grounded the superhero aspect of s1 was the human side of childhood abuse and exploring how trauma shapes people in many ways that doesn't neccesarily look good all of the time.

The focus in civil rights and social issues this season 100% matters considering its set in 60's Dallas. But I also cant help but feel that.. considering how much they amped the funny, bloody violence side of tua, they're trying to make it seem like the what 'grounds' tua now is that theyre willing to explore social issues this much compared to other superhero movies. When they really didnt need to do that because what set them apart already in s1 was how they want to talk about trauma and childhood abuse?

S2 really is more of a reboot than a sequel tbh. I'm glad that other people had fun watching, cause I did too. But now I cant help but miss s1 and all the aspects that made exploring the characters and worldbuilding so engaging in the first place. And the fact that they dropped so much of that this season... it just makes me wonder if exploring the characters further and theorizing even matters?

#vanya hargreeves #tua 2 spoilers #the umbrella academy #tua #bad things about tua s2 #long post #i personally dont think s1 as Peak Art like haunting of hill house for me #but it rlly had something special and i rlly hope that doesnt get lost

[comingoutofthecauldron]

let’s talk about lesbophobia in fandom

i don’t like to use the word “lesbophobia” unironically because of all the gross radfem terfy connotations, so i will clarify right off the bat that i am neither a terf nor an aphobe and that if you are i want you off my blog like, right now. unfortunately, the meaning of lesbophobia has been so warped by alt right lesbians that seeing it in an unironic context makes me, a lesbian, uncomfortable, which speaks volumes in itself. so to clarify, lesbophobia is essentially homophobia with a pinch of sexism thrown into the mix, and it’s running rampant in supposed safe spaces and, more relevantly, fandom. 

/i’d also like to clarify that i’m not only speaking on lesbophobia, but also the general disgust and disdain for all wlw in fandom, and am using it as a sort of umbrella term/

lesbophobia and disdain for wlw has been around forever, but whilst gay positivity, mlm and mlm ships have been steadily increasing in popularity within fandom over time, wlw and wlw ships have remained perpetual underdogs. why? because lesbophobia has become a fandom within itself. both in and outside of fandom, we see instances of casual lesbophobia every single day—from aggression towards wlw to something as simple and prevalent as the complete and utter lack of sapphic ships and characters in media. hatred of lesbians and wlw is practically a trend, and it’s seeping in through the cracks of fandoms who are already facing issues with minorities and marginalized groups (i.e. racism, ableism). if you honestly think that lesbophobia isn’t prevalent as hell in fandom right now, you’re either not a wlw, you’re not all that involved in fandom, or you’re dumb as shit. 

just look at ships. in almost every single fandom, the ratio of mlm ships to sapphic ships is ridiculously unbalanced. people are quick to ship male characters who so much as smile at each other (and i don’t condemn that) but would never do the same for two women—even on the rare occasion that the ship is actually canon. i once wrote a wlw fanfic for a [predominantly straight] fandom, and received messages like this gem:

on the flip side of that, if there is a sapphic ship in canon or fanon, it is often fetishized and sexualised to a disturbing degree. there will be double the amount of nsfw art and fics, and ninety percent of it will be derogatory and fetishized as hell. having been actively involved in several fandoms over the past few years (and currently a content creator in one), i’ve seen instances of all this hundreds of times. people go crazy for mlm ships, but the second you say you ship/prefer a wlw ship, there’s always someone at the ready with, “i think all ships are great!” or “it’s not a contest” or “i prefer [insert m/m or m/f ship] actually” or “they’re my brotp!/why can’t you just let them be friends?”. not only do lesbians and wlw not get to have any rep in media, any rep that they try to create for themselves in fandom just gets attacked or ruined. this is so detrimental not only to all wlw, but especially to younger wlw who will end up being indoctrinated into this belief that their sexuality is something dirty, something that can never be tender and sweet but rather something that deserves to be preyed upon. 

building on that, let’s talk about engagement. i run an instagram account (where i have a significantly bigger following) as well as this blog for my fandom, where i post the content i create (mainly text posts). when i first started creating content, i made a lot for a relatively unpopular wlw ship, in which both girls are canonically romantically involved with a dude—though one of them is canonically pan. their canonical m/f ships are both very popular, and i noticed that my engagement was dropping every time i posted them, so i eventually just stopped. it wasn’t even a conscious decision; i merely resigned myself to the fact that the fandom didn’t want to see sapphic ships, and some people would even go as far as to condemn them. for reference, my instagram posts get an average of about 500 likes per post (popular ones usually exceeding 1k), but when i post this ship, my engagement drops to about 250 likes. similarly, my tumblr text posts have an average of about 140 notes per post (popular ones usually reaching up to 750), but my wlw content rarely surpasses 100. this just feeds the cycle of wlw never getting rep: if, like me, content creators become disincentivised by the lack of engagement with their sapphic content, they’re more likely to stop making/posting it, leading to further lack of rep—and when new content creators try to rectify that, they face the same problems. 

and then, of course, there’s the treatment of actual wlw in fandom. my best example of this is when my friend and i made an anti account on instagram (the first instagram anti account in that fandom), our bio saying something like “salty and bitter lesbians being salty and bitter”, and received an onslaught of lesbophobic insults and threats from angry stans within hours. (tw: r*pe) one commenter even went as far as to tell us that they wanted us to get r*ped. as well as this, i’ve seen so many instances of people using slurs against lesbians in arguments/in anons, often for no apparent reason other than they feel that they have the right. when i first mentioned i was a lesbian on instagram, my account only had about 200 followers, and within a day i lost 20. i also lose followers whenever i post f/f ships, not quite to that extent but enough for it to be noticeable, on top of the aforementioned engagement dips. in the face of all this adversity, i think a lot of wlw turn to mlm ships because they’re the closest thing we have to actual rep, but when we do we get accused of fetishizing them by the same people who fetishize us. there’s an endless list of double standards that non-wlw have been upholding for years, and i can firmly say that i’m really fucking sick of it. because of our sexuality, we will never be allowed to enjoy something without someone labelling it or us as dirty or otherwise problematic, when to them, the only problematic thing about us is that we aren’t pleasing men. 

as i mentioned before, the lack of rep for wlw in media is appallingly consistent, and part of that stems from tokenism. in a lot of modern mainstream media, you’ll have one, maybe two lgbt characters, and nine times out of ten those characters are white cis male gays. of course, there are exceptions to this, but generally, that’s it. script writers and authors (especially cishets) seem to have this mentality of, “oh, well, we gave them one, that’s sure to be enough!”, which means that on the off chance you do get your gay rep, the likelihood of also receiving wlw or any other kind of rep becomes practically non-existant. this belief that all marginalized groups are the same and that one represents all is what leads to misrepresentation on top of lack of rep, which is what makes tokenism so dangerous. if you treat your only gay character badly, you are essentially treating every single gay person badly in that universe. so not only is lesbophobia and disdain for wlw harmful to sapphic women via their exclusion in media, it’s also harming those minorities who do get rep. when people try to defend lesbophobic source material, that’s when fandom starts to get toxic. the need for critical thinking has never been more apparent and it has also never been less appeased—and wlw are getting hit hard by it, as always.

finally, a pretty big driving factor of lesbophobia is, ironically, lesbians. my lesbian friends and i often joke that though everyone seems to hate us, no one hates lesbians more than lesbians do. though i’d say it’s most prevalent on tumblr, i see traces of it all over the internet. the growth of alt right lesbian movements is not only reinforcing hatred for lesbians, but also reinforcing hatred for bi and pan women. here you have these terrible lesbians using their platforms to express their disgust for bi/pan women, for aces and aros, for trans women/nb lesbians, and people see them and say, “gosh, lesbians are just awful.” and just like that, all of us are evil. occasionally, lesbian blogs that i follow get put on terf blocklists for no other reason than the fact that they have “lesbian” in their bio. and the lesbians that actually deserve to be on those blocklists? they’re too busy spewing misinformation about trans women and bi women to care, boosted up by their alt right friends in an ever-expanding movement. i’ve found that this heavily influences fandom on tumblr, lesbians often getting branded as “biphobic” when they hc a female character as a lesbian rather than bi or pan. this criticism of both lesbians and wlw by lesbians and non-wlw alike only ever allows lesbophobia to grow, both in and out of fandom. that said, lesbians aren’t to blame for their own discrimination; rather, many of us have been conditioned into subconsciously endorsing it after spending our entire lives hearing heterosexual platitudes about lesbians and sapphic relationships. homophobic cishets are and always have been the nexus of this oppression—the only difference is that now they can hide behind alt right lesbians.

one thing has been made apparent to me throughout my time in fandom, and that thing is that no one likes to see men “underrepresented”. people hate sapphic ships and lesbians so much because there is no room for men, and men Do Not Like That. so, like the worms that they are, they slither their way in, be it through fetishization or condemnation of wlw characters and ships, and they ruin whatever good things we have going for us. the thing about worms, though, is that they’re easy enough to crush if you’re wearing the right shoes.

so to all my bi/pan gals and lesbian pals: put on your doc martens, because we’ve got ourselves some lesbophobes to stomp on. 

#everyone say thank you hanna (@pinkseraphblades) for deciphering my rambling notes and helping me out with this #also want to say that my nb lesbians are not excluded from this!! i know i use the term 'wlw' a lot but i'd say it still applies to y'all #i could talk about this for days lmaoo #please rb #discourse #fandom discourse #lesbian discourse #wlw #lesbian #bisexual #yes grishaverse fandom i'm talking about you #grishaverse #soc #six of crows #tgt #the grisha trilogy #shadow and bone #and of course i was talking about my anti sjm account so #anti sjm #anti sarah j maas #anti acotar #cauldron rambles #didn't mean to take such an anti-worm stance i'm sorry worms #no worms were harmed in the making of this post #lesbophobes on the other hand... #important #ninej #lesbophobia

[rwbyconversations]

The Scarlet Letter: Let’s talk about RWBY’s male LGBT rep

I have been sitting on this post for nearly four weeks waiting until the 15th due to the Before the Dawn spoiler rules.

So let's start with a blunt statement: RWBY's male LGBT representation has not been good. If the series' handling of female LGBT rep is good (which... well there's worse shows) and the general standard for how you write LGBT characters in a show like this, its handling of male rep has been... how not to. And Before the Dawn kinda solidified the idea in my head that the show's handling of its male LGBT cast just isn't good enough, either by the standards of when RWBY began in 2013, or today in 2020 when compatively massive steps have been taken over the past decade to show a more diverse list of characters... or at least a more diverse list of female characters.

I don't wanna make this a pissing match over how over-or-under-represented male or female LGBT characters are, but I feel like it's safe to say that the majority of the trend-setters for modern romances, especially in western animation, have been between women. Korra and Asami from Korra, Chloe and Max from Life is Strange, Marceline and Bubblegum in Adventure Time, (insert the relevant Steven Universe characters here, never watched it), and more recently, Adora and Catra in She-Ra and Luz in Owl House.

Compatively, while studies have shown that in general male LGBT characters get more appearances on a purely numerical level, in general they're more one-off characters there to pad a roster, or played more for comedy (see Josh Gad in the Beauty and the Beast remake or the gay guy in Avengers Endgame that was more notable for how hard China and Russia snapped him out of existance). The only big male-LGBT focused media I can think of from the last decade would be Yuri On Ice, Moonlight, IDW's Transformers: More Than Meets The Eye (Chromedome/Rewind best pairing fuck you Roberts for issue 16) Love Simon, and the anime adaptation of Banana Fish.

So it's no surprise that RWBY basically follows these ideas. It's big romance is (unless the writers are very stupid) going to be between Blake and Yang, their first out character was Ilia, Coco got sent to the Book Dimension where she confirmed "I use my sunglasses to perv on women without their knowledge" which uh... yeah you can definitely tell RWBY is written by men... and Volume 6 had Saph and Terra being a good example of an LGBT couple without any real drama. In the last three years alone, the show has drastically increased its lesbian and bisexual characters, alongside even including its first out trans character in May Marigold (albeit only revealed on Twitter). In general, these depictions of sexuality have been pretty OK. Would have liked it if Ilia wasn't immediately written out of the show after Volume 5 as it made her feel a bit more disposable than intended but whatever, subject for another day.

RWBY's male rep though is a bit spottier. There's the plant bois in Volume 5's premiere, we nearly had Pilot Boi until some last-minute revisions, and... Scarlet.

Why Scarlet's a bad launchpad for male LGBT rep

I don't like Scarlet or how his sexuality has been handled. Scarlet's homosexuality wasn't revealed in the show, or by the writers, or even in anything that's actually canon. He's confirmed gay in his sole of dialogue in a non-canon fan anthology, where the manga's Twitter team had to say that Miles suggested the idea and approved of it.

In short, Scarlet is Dumbledore'd, where his sexuality is revealed in out-of-show material and in a way that doesn't make it supremely obvious (Miles himself never commented to confirm this so this news was limited in how far it could spread. I'm genuinely curious how many people still don't know Scarlet's gay), and Scarlet himself is a nothing character who was written out of the show after Volume 3 and only reappeared in Before The Dawn, half a decade after he vanished. Compared to Ilia, as this came out after Ilia's entire arc in Volume 5, it's not a great starting point for mlm rep. But things would have been forgiven if it had gotten better, if the show did have more male LGBT characters introduced, even just on the Saphron/Terra level of just being around for a few episodes before leaving. Then it would have been a misfire but then we could all say "Things got better."

It... didn't. Which is why when Before the Dawn released in 2020, a full two years after Scarlet was first confirmed gay, while the franchise had more than doubled its wlw rep, Scarlet remained the one male character in the entire franchise who had a name and liked men. I remember vividly a fake leak for After The Fall which claimed Yatsuhashi would come out to Velvet and admit to having a crush on Fox. And I remember as well how many people were disappointed when it was said to be false, because it would have been nice for Yatsuhashi's character, especially after the fleshing out he gets in the CFVY books. If Yatsu had come out as gay in the books I'd like his writing enough to say he's a good case for rep, albeit with the caveat of "This is all in side material." But in reality, the leak was fake and Coco was confirmed gay instead.

Unfortunately, Before the Dawn proceeded to ruin Scarlet and made me at times feel genuinely uncomfortable as a queer man! Let's talk about that.

Before The Dawn is crap and Scarlet's writing is borderline offensive

I hate Before the Dawn. It's... bad. I read it while on a vacation and the only solace I had about the entire thing was that I'd bought an M&M chocolate bar. The bar was finished before the book. That bummed me out. It's not a very well written book, the prose is very Early 2010s YA Writer, none of the characters are memorable and there's various Fun Incidents like "NGDO using children as bait for Grimm," and "Neptune's hydrophpobia being used as a threat to torture him and the scene is played for comedy."

Theo was cool. I can't wait to see him as written by good writers, he should be a highlight of the Vacuo arc.

I had two hopes for Before the Dawn- "Don't be bad," and "Let Scarlet and Sage be well written." I'd liked how After The Fall had handled some of its characters (barring, y'know, Coco perving on women), especially Fox and Yatsu who were surprising in how much I liked them. I was looking forward to seeing Myers give Sage and Scarlet similar treatment- two relatively nothing characters meant he'd have a blank slate to write them however he wanted, he could give them unique personalties and if nothing else it could be cool to see their Semblances.

And then I read the book. (Sage fans I am so sorry for you, you got baited harder than Johnlock fans)

Scarlet's a giant dickhead in the book. It's his sole character trait and his inner monologues go on, and on, and on about how much he hates Sun, how he revels in mocking him. Most of his dialogue is sarcastic put-downs about Sun and how lame he is, and Sun is never properly allowed to defend himself or point out how going with Blake meant he was able to help save Haven Academy.

(hey remember when Sun in Volume 6 expressly says to Blake "I was a bad leader for ditching Neptune and the others, and I need to work on that" only for Before the Dawn to have him staunchly refuse to accept that he let the team down? I don't think Myers did but I do)

Scarlet being a ratty bitch would be one thing if, again, the franchise had done more rep. He'd still be a badly written character, but it wouldn't sting as much. But because Scarlet is still the only expressly confirmed male LGBT character in canon (the book teases that Nolan is gay but there's never confirmation either way beyond him smiling at Scarlet), it means that he has to represent that entire ideal. So when the one gay man in Remnant is being an asshole and a snide loser, that means that by extension, this is how the franchise sees gay men. And that fucking sucks! I wanted to come out of Before The Dawn singing its praises, I wanted to like the book, but it was a massive letdown, especially coming off of the other big 2020 RWBY controversy involving gay characters.

Yeah. We're doing this.

Clover and Fair Game: Technically not queerbaiting. BUT:

Let's pre-empt this: Clover wasn't queerbaiting, and Fair Game, while cool and I dig it, kudos to them for becoming one of the top 5 RWBY pairings on AO3 in one year that's fucking impressive (I say with mild malice as an IronQrow main), never had a chance. The writing never seriously boosted it barring one interaction which was flirty (them talking in the lobby of the Schnee Manor), and everything else was out of show boosting through the social media teams and CRWBY hyping it themselves by saying they liked it. If you wanna blame people, blame the animators who went off-script with stuff like Kim Newman adding the wink as a deliberate nod to the Volume 4 waitress, or the social media team deliberately using the same policies for Fair Game as they do for Renora and Bumblebee.

It wasn't Eddy's fault that things escalated, and he himself has said that in retrospect, he should have warned people that this never had a shot.

But I can't blame the Fair Game fanbase. Because Fair Game took off like wildfire. It came right as the fanbase began seriously asking for more male rep, Qrow's pretty hot, and the Clover wink came right after the Great IronQrow Reawakening of November 9th, 2019. The rocket was primed, and they rode it to the moon. Finally, to these people, after seven years RWBY seemed to be doing something with mlm rep in show. People started getting into RWBY just for Clover and Qrow's interactions. And if heroes were boring, Watts and Tyrian also had a fantastic dynamic that made Nuts and Volts one of the more popular villain ships overnight. Things seemed to be turning around! RWBY was remembering that gay men existed! You could hear the choir sing!

... And for those people, that meant that episode 12 hit like Truck-Kun.

People got pissed. People were horrified. And it didn't help that some members of CRWBY had said in the build-up that episode 12 would have some shots that made them nauseous (probably the Tyrian thumb thing) Out of context, it looked to these fans like CRWBY were basically laughing at their suffering, like they were saying "Lol, you thought you had a chance, get fucked, I hope your vomit burns on the way up."

Yeah, Fair Game was never gonna be canon, and I think some people ran too far with it. But in the wider context of how desperate RWBY's mlm community had gotten for basic crumbs of content? I can see why they'd run with what they had. The writers aren't at fault for what happened, but CRWBY didn't help matters. And that desperate mix of what felt like official backing from the crew, jokes about how cute the ship was, and the hope that finally the show would have onscreen rep? I can see why people ran with it.

So why is the show more lackluster in depicting mlm characters?

Money. Let's be honest, most RWBY fans don't care if the show doesn't have good male rep. I'm willing to bet some of you reading this won't care and just dismiss it as not being that big a problem. I don't think the writers care if the show doesn't have good mlm rep because they're not poaching that market. They're after what they see as a bigger, more lucrative market, which in this case is female LGBT rep. That gets people buying games, watching shows, raising awareness and boosting awareness of your property, which means you make more money. In short: Two women kissing hits more markets and generates more attention than two men.

Am I saying that Miles, Monty and Kerry deliberately sat down seven years ago and said "We're not doing gay men because it won't generate enough ad revenue and traffic to be worth the loss in revenue from homophobes?" No, that's silly. But I'm saying that it's less important for them, and it shows in the things that are small and add up. Things like Miles not verifying Scarlet's sexuality or retweeting the manga account's confirmation to spread the message (compared to how he enthusiastically confirmed Ilia being a lesbian himself during the Reddit AMA). It shows in how Pilot Boi would have been the first mlm character only to die in his second full episode until M&K were told about the Bury Your Gays trope. It shows in how Shannon believes that Ozma is "megaqueer" and Miles jokingly laughs it off instead of confirming it, leaving it to just be Shannon's headcanon. It shows in how actor shipping is compared between the mlm and wlw ships, where Arryn and Barbara's frequent pushes for Bumblebee are seen as "official confirmation that it's endgame" while Michael and Kerry saying they enjoy Seamonkeys is treated as "well it would be cute if they did it, but they're never going to."

I'm not gonna say anything like "CRWBY are gonna have Qrow end up with a woman like Robyn out of spite against the bad apples of the Fair Game crowd." I'm not gonna say that I don't think CRWBY cares about male representation in the series. It is, however, definitely a low priority for them, and because that leads to gaffes like Scarlet's writing in Before The Dawn being offensive in his depiction, it only makes the contrast between the sexes all the more painfully apparent.

I'm kinda tired of waiting for Rooster Teeth to show that they do care about mlm. I'm kinda tired of RWBY's male rep being written like it came from a 1993 time capsule where I have to enhance the screen to see a guy holding a sign of Sun's abs or be content with the only onscreen rep still being the plant bois in Volume 5. I'm tired of how often the crew dances around answering basic questions about sexuality (and age, and birthdays, and heights, and so on) by treating it as a spoiler question, as if just wanting to know what way people swing would ever be a spoiler. I'm just... tired of all this. When the best mlm rep in Rooster Teeth's history remains the two dads in Camp Camp who show up in a few episodes, that should say something really bad about your company and your biases (To say nothing of the recent Red vs Blue seasons and their blatant queerbaiting for Grif and Simmons and the whole can of worms that is Donut).

I'd like to not feel like I'm borderline unwelcome because I'd like to see two men in this show kiss, and that the sole thing that represents people like me in this show is some British twat who complains about sand.

I'd just like to feel like my sexuality isn't a joke to Rooster Teeth (or at the very least, be like Donut and have it be a funny one). But at this point after the last few years? I feel like a very uncomfortable punchline to them. And it just sucks.

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