#femininity as butches have to masculinity

[transsexula]

Hate seeing people say that Transandrophobia isn't real because, in their words, the "androphobia" isn't something people in real life face.

Now. Maybe this is because when I see this opinion, it's attached to someone who is either transfem, AMAB, or who has only ever lived in incredibly liberal areas.

Meaning: They do not have the life experience to speak on that.

It's simple, I can use myself as an easy example: I grew up on the west side of the US. My extended family and parents were very Christian, very conservative. The community I grew up in was in turn the same- very conservative, very Christian, very fundamentalist. Certain Disney movies were banned from the house for featuring witchcraft, or other "morally reprehensible" things. DISNEY MOVIES.

With this background, I'm sure you can tell where this was headed: I can clearly remember being in the pharmacy with my mother. I was small. I saw a lady with what I now know is a pixie cut- incredibly short hair, bright bold pink. Her girlfriend was there, and her own hair was incredibly butch- like they went to a sports clips and asked for what the guy next to them was getting. I was amazed- I'd never seen a woman that looked like that before. I voiced so with awe and wonder to my mother. I was supposed to get a haircut in an hour. "I want that! She looks so pretty and nice"

Who was visibly disgusted. Grabbing me, yanking me away, muttering "no. You don't want to look like that. Let's go."

Fast forward a few years. I'm too young to be drinking a beer, my uncle has stayed up late. We are watching music videos and sharing interests, when we see a rather masc looking woman in a video. He's disgusted. He makes an offhand joke about how she needs to be reminded of her feminine ways. I know what violations he's implying so vividly. He opens up about his fantasy of hatecriming two butch "women" he saw. I'm too afraid to speak.

There's a debate in church. Should women be allowed to wear above the knee shorts? We really didn't like that they can wear pants. Really, the pastor says in his sermon- it's the woman's job to maintain her feminine nature, in opposition to her husband's masculine nature. These blurring lines aren't good for people.

And- I don't want to get into the people I've known who've been hurt, abused, forcefully feminized, beaten for being masculine- the men that feel entitled to their bodies, because they feel entitled to a say in how they present.

The reason you don't see the abuse for being masculine, is because you come from a world where it's widely accepted in ways that not every culture, not every state or country has.

Gnc women, trans men, transmasc nonbinary people- if you're in the wrong place, born to the wrong family, you may never be safe enough to wear pants. You may not be able to cut your hair. Or be anything less than the perfect, ideal woman.

You get punished for not being what you have been assigned. For the act of defiance against others perception, you can be killed.

So, yeah. There's a lot of androphobia. There's a LOT of fear of the masculine. It just comes out in ways you aren't expecting, as someone who hasn't had to experience it. You don't know what to look for. Where to look. It's everywhere but you can be blind to it if you're insulated enough.

Hell- even terfs are falling into severe androphobia. It's their whole motto. What am I, if not a failed woman to them? Mutilating my perfect feminine form? Being a man is the ultimate crime to these people. Are you really telling me JKRs very public campaign hasn't made life hell for ALL of us? We are all losing healthcare due to this.

#transandrophobia #transphobia #AGAIN THIS ISNT TO START SHIT THIS IS TO EXPLAIN WHY THIS IS A THING #the reason i didnt attach this to a post about it is because of that specific reason #im tired of people acting like we are all just safe in big cities

[forgetmenot-princess]

I think that one of the hardest things about being sapphic and non binary is how unique presentation is for everyone. I feel more masculine when I dress more femme and vice versa. But I'd love to be the type of person who can blend seamlessly.

I want to be a pretty femme, giggling and blushing. I want to be able to wear skirts and dresses on my feminine days without feeling like the eight year old forced to wear pleated skirts and knee length socks in primary school.

I want to be a butch, celebrating our own version of masculinity. I want to be seen as rugged and handsome on my masculine days without feeling like I'm pretending or slotting myself into a space I don't belong.

I want to fit into a community that has welcomed me, loved me and protected me. And while I know that these things are not a requirement, I can't help but feel envious of those who don't have to try to fit in. Of those who don't have their sexualities questioned by others who don't understand what being non binary means to someone like me.

#lesbian #sapphic nsft #t4t nsft #wlw nsft #wlw post #nonbinary #gender dysphoria #sapphic #nblw #vent post

[idolomantises]

Anyways speaking of being gay apparently teenagers on tiktok are mad at me because they found out I’m a lesbian who uses he/they pronouns

#txt #there’s something funny about telling a nb lesbian that their identity is ‘terminally online’ while regurgitating talking points #from 2015 transmed tumblr #like first it’s Pearl clutching over masculine women and feminine men and now it’s non-binary lesbians making people go berserk #honestly I wish I could find this funny (I mean in concept it is) but it’s irritating how tiktok incited so much online harassment and #bullying by just making shit up about queer identities and terminology to a point where we’re just back to acting like we have to fit into #our stereotypes. but only the accepted ones because god forbid your lesbian character is masculine lol #I remember a bunch of 15 year olds on twitter blew up at me because I pointed out that dyke is not a term exclusive to black lesbians #because guess where they got that insane ass assumption that ignores decades of lesbian history and queer activism #that’s right! another random ass teenager on tiktok with no sourcing #just gatekeeping a slur meant for all lesbians #I feel like if a tiktoker interacted with a real butch lesbian they’d explode and die

[count-nicula]

genuinely hate whoever came up w the lie that being hairy disqualifies you from being femme

#like girl... so many ppl seem to think the only way to be a femme guy is to be a hairless twink and a fat hairy woman is automatically butch #like have u never met a masc boyish twink or a hairy queen #have u never met a hairy femme or a butch who prefers to shave or manscape whatever term they prefer #shut up and slap some chest hair on that badboy (gender neutral) #masculinity and femininity and androgyny are all great and not determined by hair level so to shave or not to shave is a whole new question

[mejomonster]

I need to find someone who worded this better but. This is your friendly reminder that a woman can be as masculine as she wants. A man can be as feminine as he wants. A nonbinary person can be feminine and masculine and androgynous and whatever they want: everyone can! Your expression and appearance and hobbies etc do not have to conform within a box to be allowed to exist, do not have to match those rigid lines of societys expectation of gender roles in any way at all for you to Be the Gender you Are. You are the gender you feel you are. Your expression can be and is whatever you want, and does not have to match up to expectations.

#rant #gender #by this i mean: a woman can never want to have a baby. a man can love childcare #a woman can be butch and LOVE being a woman. a man can be feminine and love makeup and dresses and LOVE being a man #a nonbinary person can LOVE their beard and their suits and HATE #dresses and STILL BE NONBINARY #changing ones expression of masculinity and femininity to make yourself feel more awesome and happy? YAY #but also. many people have to be a certain amount masc or fem for societal pressures. #how many people wear makeup (a feminine expected activity) out of pressure and not joy #how many people NEVER wear a dress cause it will get them attacked or arrested in some places (even if they LOVE DRESSES) #their choice to wear makeup or to avoid dresses may not be THEIR preferred life. it may be the choice they make to fit in and avoid attack #if a trans person is not being respected at work pre hormones? is misgendered constantly? is disrespected? #then yes. hormones and gtowing a beard might finally get fucked up strangers to shut the fuck up #(also for many people the physical changes are cool and awesome! but its also like #a person should and does not Have to change anything physically or lifestyle wise for YOU to #believe them when they say im X gender. period) #i am a huge believer in people not needing to conform to stupid gender role boxes if they dont ficling want

[thoughtfulfangirling]

Random thought of the day:

Asami is obviously much more femme than Korra, but Korra isn't butch. Honestly I'd love it if she was because I love me some butches, but she's just not, and I would love depictions of her and Asami's relationship where Korra starts learning how to embrace more feminine things from Asami. Not that she ever doesn't want to come off as strong and muscly and powerful! She absolutely wants those things! But I don't think she's ever felt like they should come at the cost of her femininity and I love her for that.

Lin on the other hand... She should absolutely be depicted as butch imo 😅😅

#lok #something just feels off to me when Korra is conveyed as butch in fandom #after so many previous lives as a man I think it might be natural to have a sense of masculinity #but that doesn't bar her from femininity #and in fact makes the experience all that more interesting imo in the context of a long lived reincarnation cycle #La de da #Korra #Asami sato #avatarverse

[moesartblog]

I cant speak for anyone else obviously, but being a fat butch in fandom feels like this way too often

PLEASE stop calling female characters (or often feminine men) butch just because they have ONE trait thats not as feminine as the rest of their design.

#Im gonna delete this but god i had to get this off my chest #ive seen a bunch of people call feminine male characters butch and i just #have to put my head in my hands cus it often feels like they do it bc #they want to see “butches” but male characters tend to be the closest to that #but they hardly do it with masculine male characters and usually just hc the feminine ones as butch hmmmmmmm i wonder why #I have no probelm with headcanoning male characters as butch #i do it too and male characters can be butch and still be men too #it just feels like that one tweet of “the butchest a character can be before gettign scared” #i want to say though i do appreciate butches who present in ways that dont align perfectly with the popular ideas of masculine #but damn i want to see more butches like me where it takes someone a minute to be like “is that a man?” if you know what I mean #I get misgendered pretty often lol

[shojoboy]

Being Bisexual is sooo cool we can be any gender and be attracted to any gender any amount, we lovvvvve women and nonbinary people and men and even if we only ever date or fuck one of those we are still Bisexual. We aren't "half straight, half gay", because that's not how sexuality works. Sometimes it feels like we don't have our own community but tbh that's because, the Gay community? We in there. The Lesbian community? We in there. Trans community??? We in there!!!!!!!!!!!! Yippee!!!!!

#bisexual #happy pride month i figured i get to make at least one bi post #as a bi person i still feel very shunted to the side sometimes lol #like it still feels...esp for women (because patriarchy world) that sayong your bi means you're saying that you like Men the most lol #altho on the reverse i think plenty of bi men r also treated like staright dudes ''trying to be cool'' which has it;s own origins #and also like. if ur lesbian or gay that comes with a Community and a history and everything and being Bi is like. oh you're there too lol? #even tho Bi people have ALWAYS been in both the Gay and Lesbian communities! it's just more obvious nowadays because in the past... #being openly ANYTHING was hard and obviously it was easier for cis bisexuals to like. pretend to be straight. or if they couldnt... #they could pretend to be gay or lesbian! like we had to be somewhere #and not everybody has the strength and fortitude to b openly Bi when both straights and queers will give you shit for it #anyway. #everything Gay or Lesbian is also Bi you are not missing out by being Bisexual. you can call yourself butch and femme you #can be a bear or a twink you can worship femininity worship masculinity do drag go to lesbian bars ETC #and to the youngsters who feel like they have to call themselves Pansexual because they r nonbinary or date trans people: you do not #Bi people are ALSO in the trans community! WE'RE EVERYWHERE #BI WORLD NO ESCAPE #YIPPEEEE!!!!!!!!!!! #-_- #pol

[stillflight]

Being a masc, mlm trans man is weird because media representation of cis gay guys will somehow make you dysphoric because they're more effeminate than you and also because they're more masculine than you

#i'm too straight. i'm too femme. i'm too butch. i'm queer but like TOO queer so now i'm just a woman. #i lack the masculine contempt and feminine swagger that gay guys apparently have #i wanted to watch that show caleb gallo that so many gifsets are from but had to stop because i got so dysphoric like #this is a world i'll never be apart of i don't belong here #i'm a creep i'm an afab #kvetch #trans #queer #ftm

[edwardallenpoe]

man I sure do hope people who say that trans people don't have to present hyper-binary or be passable are normal about masc/butch trans people, including trans women who don't want surgeries or hrt or use she/her pronouns. Man I sure do hope they don't just mean femme trans men and exclude trans women and nonbinary masculine people. Man I sure do hope that they aren't super fucking weird about masculinity, especially when performed by trans women.

#Just. #A lot of people are rlly saying the quiet part out loud when they make posts standing out for transfemme afabs #Lifting up their femininity and right to their expression #Then make posts about ew gross masculinity I hate mascs men eeww #And are dead silent about trans women #They hype up trans men that don't want hrt or surgery #But the only rare discussion they have about trans women is femme trans women #It's almost as if they just hate masculinity and want to preserve femininity #Idk it just rlly grinds all my gears #It's like. Almost TERF-lite #Like they're allies of the most vanilla order #Just hate it when they say they support genderfuckers #But then there's a butch person who uses pronouns other than she/her and still identifies with womanhood to some capacity #Or a trans woman who doesn't want to present femme in any capacity but still identifies as a woman #Then they get fucking confused #it's fine #transphobia #queerphobia #homophobia #trans issues #transphobes #butch #masculine #masculinity #Transmisogyny #I would consider this transmisogyny #Bc denying women's right to express themselves however the fuck they want is a form of misogyny

[bagelbucket]

bold take we aren’t ready for is that people think they’re trans just because they don’t align with society’s “ideal” gender roles when in fact it’s just their personality. or because of internalized biphobia.

#but we AINT ready for that conversation #you’ll say you don’t wanna wear dresses or paint ur nails once and oh damn you must be a transman #and not because of having a literal actual trans experience #<- not aligned with your !!biological!! gender #people will misread this but like. you can be a biological woman and call urself a girlie and use he/him pronouns I genuinely don’t care #literally I do not care what u do #but there is a thing in noticing!!! where kids or adults realize they don’t align with how the world views their gender #and people say they must be trans #or because they’re straight or gay but . Because they might be butch or flamboyant. they think they HAVE to be trans bc #god forbid they’re just a feminine man or androgynous woman or masculine woman or nb man or person or !!! #anyways. #gender is a spectrum along which anyone can reside #while also feeling in touch with biological gender #(biological gender = sex) #anyways. Hey #bagel talk time #queer discourse #ANOTHER BOLD TAKE: transgender doesn’t exist because GENDER is a spectrum of experience DIFFERENT from sex #you can’t be transGENDER because gender is already a fluid human experince #we’ve just…..put ‘man’ and ‘woman’ into boxes based on gender roles and expectations #you can be transexual tho because that’s literallyyyyy the entire thing. that’s what it is. #<- all said by a person who thought they were transexual because they were experiencing (and still do) behaviors and traits different from #what society expected and HUNDREDS of people told them they were trans #almost went on hormones and changed my body because I was convinced #and that wasn’t the case for me #I use he him they them pronouns because I’m comfortable with them and because I feel masculine and androgynous sometimes #is it apart of the ‘trans’ experience? sure yeah!! 100% #and not everyone feels that way of course. but like. I’m not actually trans. #I just experience fluxes in gender #I’ve had a trans experience through finding myself but I’m not gonna call myself trans because I haven’t changed my body

[bijoumikhawal]

NGL I think if you're writing RGU analysis and you call Utena's gender nonconformity sexist you may not be writing good RGU analysis

#cipher talk #RGU #Girl has long pink hair and wears lipstick and she's too butch for you #The problem in RGU isn't masculinity its patriarchy. The problem with Utena trying to be a prince isn't because she's not acting like a gir #(The show is rather direct in this by having Touga degrade Utena to the point where she dresses 'like a girl' and is obviously depressed #While doing so and once she's reclaimed her self worth by kicking his ass dressing masculinely again #And by having Akio comment on how 'girlish' Utena looks after he rapes her) #Her masculinity does not imply other girls are lesser #The problem is that being a prince REQUIRES you to deny agency to others and requires the creation of a villain and a victim for you to #Perform the act of being a prince. In this case a witch and a princess. This is system is still bad when the genders change but in its form #Is a vehicle of patriarchy #The prince is not masculinity itself. It is toxic masculinity/patriarchal masculinity #How ugly RGU would be if Utena's failure to save both Anthy and herself was because of her masculinity! #And not because when confronted by her rapist she tried to claim the language of abuse and power to distance herself from being a victim! #Subsequently casting the girl she loves- another victim- into an objectified role as a tool for Utena to reclaim a sense of power #In the moment of confrontation with the man who abused them both they both slide into toxic but familiar behaviors #Which have little to do with Utena's masculinity or Anthy's femininity and everything to do with abuse

[snixx]

good GOD can we stop gendering everything. I swear some of y'all just took the futch scale and decided to run with it as gender roles 2.0 (yassified edition)

#like use whatever labels you want for yourself and your communities idc! i love femmes i love butches im happy for you #my issue as always comes when yall start imposing those labels on anyone and everyone unsolicited #and ESPECIALLY when you tear apart other people for not being femme/butch enough #me personally i dislike both those labels because i know i will never be enough for them even if i try #plus i dont see the correlation between how a certain article of clothing or way of wearing my hair makes me more masculine or feminine #for ME that is. like if a skirt/kurti makes you feel more femme thats great. but that doesn't mean it has to universally be feminine #and telling me im femme because i like skirts is just reinforcing a universal gender to a piece of clothing #me personally i can't wear pants cause they're uncomfortable #anyway tangent aside. those “this is the most butch woman twitter can handle” posts were funny at first #but then they devolved into “HAHA twitter thinks girl with long hair is butch they don't know what a real butch is” #which is so annoying. what makes you butch. who gets to decide that #there is a problem when characters who express their butchness a certain way canonically get miscasted with traditionally femme stuff #and i get that butchphobia is very real #but also when that's not the case just let people express themselves man. you don't have to be dragging everyone all the time #girlblogging.pdf

[moesartblog]

My fear as a butch creator is creating butch characters who people misinterpret and insist on feminizing them especially in ways that are antithetical to their characters

#I have plenty of very feminine characters too #and I play around with what would be considered feminine or masculine #basically tho the last thing I wanna see is one of my butch Ocs put into a dress or something lol #tbd #just rambling

[bylertruther]

sometimes. people on here will say things where i know if i point-blank asked them "hey, do you like butches, femmes, and people that do not 'look' or 'act' queer?" they'll of course say yes duh. and i know if i asked them, "cool. do you think that an androgynous person or 'very gender nonconforming' (for lack of better phrasing) is more queer than someone that isn't?" they'll say no of course not.

but then you read the things they've said about how queer people present themselves, how they "should" present themselves once they've reached a fully realized state, and how it relates to gender and relationships and its like Hmmmmmmmmmm. i don't think you do like any of those three groups i mentioned actually if that's how you really feel on those issues lmao.

it's the same school of thought behind the perplexingly popular idea that because noah wears athleisure, he couldn't possibly be gay (before he came out, this was the common sentiment; and even now, people act like finn is more queer than noah, just because he "looks and acts" like it according to them). this idea that you have to look and act a certain way to be Actually Queer or Queer Enough, and if you don't, then that's because you've fallen victim to conforming or you just aren't as comfortable with your identity. (what? as if there's a single queer identity to begin with?)

that if you're a queer guy and you behave or look masculine, then you just haven't come out of your shell and accepted yourself or experimented enough. that if you're a queer woman and you're feminine, then the same applies, or you're not as queer as a butch woman, who does exhibit gender nonconformity, for example. and if you're butch or femme (+ other equivalents), or in a relationship with your counterpart, then you're perpetuating heteronormativity, as if that's even possible, and we all know that's so very, awfully, terribly Bad, you're a stain on the community, and you have issues you need to work out.

people don't have to look or act in a particular way to be acceptably queer enough. we don't all gravitate towards certain expressions of gender nonconformity or androgyny just because we're queer, and a failure to do that doesn't suggest that we're uncomfortable with ourselves and our identity. you can continue to be yourself as you were even after realizing you're queer. that's not impossible or a bad thing.

femmes and gay men that are masculine in any capacity are not traitors, confused, or less gay. some people are the way that they are, regardless of their sexuality. we don't all morph into the same person when we realize we're queer. that shouldn't be a difficult concept to understand? that's literally just... being a human and treating queer people as such.

those evil gay people who are in "masc/fem" relationships aren't perpetuating heteronormativity either. just because they exist outside of your realm of understanding, or have the kind of relationship that you wouldn't personally want for yourself, that doesn't mean that they aren't members of your community—which is the queer community, in case you forgot—and don't deserve respect, too.

like. it's just so demoralizing lmao. what's so hard to understand about accepting that people are all different and that just because we may belong to the same community, that doesn't mean that we are all the same and must fall in line? it's so tone-deaf, insulting, and just plain unrealistic. you may not mean it that way, but it is. that rhetoric just is.

feminine gay women exist. masculine gay men exist. sometimes they may experiment with their gender expression once realizing this, but they don't always and they don't have to to be considered queer. butch/fem relationships and other similar relationships are not imitations of heterosexuality, because they're fucking gay, and they do not adhere to traditional heterosexual roles, because, again, they're fucking gay.

your experiences and beliefs are not universal. gay people are not clones of each other. stop invalidating or speaking down on other queer people just because you can't relate to them personally. i know some people don't mean to insinuate these things, but you do. you are. constantly. and the people that fall in those categories you've deemed unacceptable and other, see it.

it's so... exhausting to face that in this space, which is supposed to be a respite from the physical world where that happens, too. and those actions, those beliefs that people share, they also bleed into the physical world and how you interact with other people in your community. it's not just little words that you write and have no meaning. it doesn't start and end with a fictional character. the things that you say matter and sometimes they're very troubling.

people who have been in those "fem/masc" relationships, or that identify with any kind of similar label, have not lived a life that's an imitation of heterosexuality, nor are they any less queer than you just because you haven't been in/participate in relationships like that.

#personally idk about you guys.... #but i LOVE getting invalidated irl and also online by fellow queer ppl just bc i don't 'look' or 'act' gay enough according to them 👍 #anyway. yes my feelings are hurt lmao. of course they are. sometimes people say things innocently and don't realize how it #comes across or what they're implying. it happens. i just wanted to offer a different perspective from someone that has been the #fem in gay relationships. bc quite frankly i don't like the idea that i have to be more androgynous or masculine to be a fully realized gay #nor do i like the idea that my relationships have been less than or would be bad representation if shown to an audience lmao. #same for my gay male friends that are also feminine. and same for my bi male friends that are more masculine. or the butch women i've #dated. i don't think any of them are any less queer or bad representation and i would never think that if they had just #experimented with androgyny then maybe they'd be an elevated version of themselves. #it sounds crazy but when you take those same words that ppl say and apply them to real people... that's what you're saying. #anywayyyyyyyyyy.......... i'll fuck off again