#fatws theory

[uris-stanley]

i hate the netflix bingeable format of dropping whole seasons at once. where are the cliffhangers. where's the build up. where's the theorising every week about what's gonna happen next. where's the racing home after work/school to put the new episode on.

i really hope stranger things s5 is released on an episode-per-week basis, or at least split into multiple smaller drops. i wanna be able to theorise over a week and yell about it in real time. it's the final season, let's drag it out and make it feel really special

#do not get me long im going insane over getting so much content this friday #but i realised with moonknight and fatws just how Fun it is to get an episode every week #it makes me more excuted. it means more people are likely to watch it. it builds intrigue and stakes #it lets yt nerds make theory videos for a good month. or two #st #stranger things #netflix #stranger things 5

[luna-rainbow]

I've been reading through the posts and anons regarding Bucky's characterisation in FATWS and I couldn't agree more with your responses.

I think the deep dives and theories from some of the anons on how the writing for Bucky could be spun if we really wanted to are interesting and well intentioned but when I look at what was actually presented, I finished FATWS feeling like I was supposed to view Bucky as a reformed villain who was looking for redemption and that I was supposed to root for him now that he was on the right path and making choices to atone for his sins and make right for his life of crime ---and, considering Bucky was a victim, that did not sit right with me at all. I find it hard to believe that someone could have watched Bucky's story from the beginning and not rooted for him the whole way through.

I actually found the attempts to villainise him a disgusting narrative choice.

This was not an arc about a victim healing, it was an arc about an assassin looking for redemption.

So I think that even if the attempt was to show the shadiness of the government or to portray it as Bucky's misplaced guilt being the driving force, it ultimately doesn't matter because that's not how the narrative presented it. Bucky makes a lot of statements that signify his own feelings of guilt and low sense of self worth 'the power I gave her' 'I know crazy because I am crazy' the conversation he has with Sam about why he has to be the one to talk to Zemo--and none of these statements are shot down, not even by Sam who is supposed to be our hero and experienced PTSD therapist. In fact, Sam even encourages Bucky's negative self image at points with lines like 'even him, and he's killed everyone he's ever met' (which is why I'll also argue that Sam is mischaracterised in this show too)

That's because the narrative wants us to take Bucky's guilt at face value, they want us to see this as a matter fact and something that Bucky has to redeem himself from in order to reach his goal of feeling worthy and human again. They want Bucky's guilt to be a point both he and the audience agree on.

While the narrative leaves space for us to counter its perception of Bucky and his level (or lack) of responsibility for things that The Winter Soldier did--it does nothing to counter its own assumption that Bucky should be considered complicit in the things he was forced to do by Hydra.

We are told some form of this by everyone from Zemo to Sharon to Karli to Raynor to Isaiah to even Sam.

Even when Bucky finally breaks and openly admits that he's beginning to question Steve's faith in him, there is no response to counter his lack of self belief. Neither Sam nor Raynor argue the matter.

During the one moment that the writing could have explicitly made it clear that the narrative viewed Bucky as a victim of Hydra instead of the villian he believes himself to be, we got blank space instead. They could have expanded on the scene between him and Yori and used the father of one of The Winter Soldier's targets to make the point that Bucky was a victim too but instead, we got the implication that Yori was yet another person seeing him as the same monster that Bucky believes himself to be.

So when we take the writing as it actually is, we are left with Bucky believing he is responsible for the crimes that Hydra committed using The Winter Soldier. We are left with no one countering his belief, we are in fact left with both our protagonists and antagonists equally reinforcing Bucky's guilt and self-portrayal as a reforming villain and we are left with Bucky learning that he has to pay for what 'he' did by living in service of those 'he' hurt.

That is what the narrative tells us about Bucky Barnes in FATWS. That is what the character of Bucky Barnes tells us in FATWS, that is what the other characters tell us about Bucky Barnes in FATWS--and we have nothing within the narrative of FATWS that leads us to believe otherwise.

Hello lovely! I'm not sure how I missed this post although I did have a lot of personal stuff going on a few months ago and maybe I shelved it for a time I could reply properly, so apologies for the delay!

All excellent points up there.

Back during the height of the TFATWS discourse (mostly stemming from the fact that several of us were trying to write fix-its and just couldn't make the canon make sense), one of the key points of contention was between fans who felt the narrative fell short in addressing Bucky's lack of agency and therefore lack of liability for the Winter Soldier's crimes, vs other fans who felt Steve's one line in CACW "it wasn't your fault" was enough and hence his lack of agency did not need to be raised again in TFATWS.

But you are absolutely right. The narrative frames Bucky as guilty and volatile, and it does nothing to dispose the viewers otherwise. None of the characters treat him in a way that suggests any empathy for his status as a prisoner of war, only something bordering on derision that he's been spared punishment.

Which, I think, accurately reflects how most of the MCU writers have spoken of him.

#bucky barnes #asks #tfatws critical

[mysticcollectionbee]

Loki Season 2 Ep. 1 Thoughts:

(Heavy Spoilers)

Ok so I have a lot of thoughts and are basically all over the place so I'm gonna be putting in them in somewhat chronological order (Unlike Loki's current situation hehe)

They really HAD to put more of Loki's heartbreak over Mobius not recognizing him? Loki creators probably: "I know we're gonna bring the duo back but let's make 'em suffer just a bit more in the beginning".

I know others have covered this but also want to spread this headcanon/theory: Even though past Mobius doesn't know Loki ,and probably got his memory erased afterwards, It's still an interesting theory that maybe his interactions with Loki then might have somehow stuck with him and made him want to look into Loki a bit later.

Miss Minutes is with Ravonna right? I feel likeMinutes is probably the only tool/weapon that might give the former judge some leverage.

Casey! Casey not just being a comedic guy but actually a massive help is really nice. He (Present Casey) immediately saw Loki in pain/trouble and decided to help him without much question.

So...X-5 and D-90 weren't what I was expecting, they're kinda switched actually from what I was expecting. I thought X-5 would be a friend to Mobius and kinda con-artist and D-90 was a massive jerk who would side with Ravonna...But hey, I'm all for D-90's redemption.

New Judge is great. Screw Ravonna!...Where's Ravonna?

Apparently she was in on HWR's plan from the beginning...Guess she is a big bad after all. Also, why was she so great to HWR? Like in the comics they were couple but things seem to have taken a different turn in the MCU.

Look, I get it if you don't ship Lokius but...You have to admit was really nice to see Loki get some support from Mobius (And B-15, don't forget her stopping Ass-5) and then Mobius trying to calm/ground Loki while the poor dude is really going through it. AND even later, Loki and Mobius trying to make the other calm down and not to worry about their problems.

IF you do ship Lokius. We're either getting fed well or being clowned upon. Either way, let me just enjoy these two for a bit.

Why has no one talked about the weird fact that O.B.'s memory doesn't seem to have been erased but Mobius' has? Also, is O.B. like a TVA secret? Why the hell is no one in the TVA visiting him! How is he able to keep track of time in the TVA?!

Ok so that guidebook O.B. made, Loki still has it right? Like in a trailer clip he is flipping through an orange book, that's the guidebook right?

I love how Mobius is still thinking about whether he'll lose his skin or not till the very last minute lol. We know he's always was gonna pick saving Loki no matter what, but you'd totally still be worried about the skin thing.

I think Loki was pruned by either Future Sylvie or Future Loki. I think Future Loki and Sylvie came up with a plan to make sure Present Loki got pruned and survived. Also...Sylvie growing out her hair to have 50/50 hair colors is making me more of Bi idiot than usual.

While I enjoy the comparison to the Sam/Bucky roll to Lokius I think there is a key difference: FaTWS played this for comedy while this was played for relief that the characters are ok. And Sam immediately told bucky to get off while Loki probably just thought Mobius's suit was too heavy. (Yes, I'm wearing clown makeup, what about it.)

Finally, And I know how controversial this is: I don't think Loki is looking for Sylvie for romantic reason (OR more accurately, not the sole reason). She is literally about to be hunted down and probably killed and was the last one to see what happened in the Citadel. Even if he did feel betrayed by her, he still would probably want to save her.

#mcu #marvel #loki #loki season 2 #loki spoilers #theory #shitpost kinda #thoughts #headcanon #lokius

[inevitably-johnlocked]

Hi! I just saw your post on DS2 and I have a HUGE problem with that movie, and it mainly comes down to the fact that it fails (in my mind) to properly explore character development. To explain what I mean a bit more, the MCU is a franchise and that franchise is literally built on its characters. I mean, it’s not just “MOM” it’s “Doctor Strange in the MOM.” So, a lot of people are coming to see DS and Wanda and their interactions. DS had a pretty lacklustre motivation and I honestly didn’t buy his role as a mentor with how little time it took for him to let go of his arrogance, but with Wanda especially her arc is so neglected just so shel’ll play the villainous role. They set up this whole narrative for her in Wandavision ending with her grief and hope, but then just skips to her being utterly insane. This is probably even worse for people who haven’t watched the series and just witness her going from the end of Endgame to fully evil. It wouldn’t be such a problem if Marvel didn’t pride itself on its character driven narratives but it DOES. Rewrites or no, I felt that the reason the film felt so soulless was that it prioritised fan service and wider MCU connectivity over the thing that brings the audience and drives the narrative in the first place: the characters.

(referencing this post)

Hey Lovely!

YES UGH. And it's frustrating because it kind of forces people to get the streaming so they know what happened in the "in between"? like, Marvel shows should have NEVER been about "solving movie level issues" more just like about a singular character and their adventures. Like Agents of Shield and Daredevil were (to my knowledge, I haven't seen either). So yeah, to some rando, MOM just... seemed really weird? But even then ALL the characterizations were SO OFF and, as I mentioned, Doctor Strange became a secondary character in his own movie. It's like they wanted someone else for a villain and someone higher up said, NAW let's make Wanda the villain and oop how about this fan service and let's introduce a character who's powers are SO ridiculously OP'd that it changes the power scaling of the most powerful sorcerer in the MCU.

Don't get me wrong, I liked America, and I liked the Illuminati, BUT they should have NEVER been introduced in a Doctor Strange Movie? Like... it's weird.

I dunno, I'm seeing theories going around now that they're setting up Doctor Strange to be the big bad of Secret Wars instead of Kang, so I don't know anymore. I just... wanted a continuation of DS1, and Mordo should have been a bad guy in DS2.

DS2 just... is so convoluted and not even a DS movie? I didn't hate the movie, I just... felt it WASN'T a DS movie, like the first one was. It felt like it was just there to introduce the Multiverse in the most convoluted and confusing way possible.

And WandaVision, even though I didn't really like it as much as everyone else apparently, did a good job of showing Wanda's trauma. I just feel that DS2 really undid all that and just... made her a villain to sell toys because everyone loves her.

Ugh. Then again, apparently my tastes are crap because the only Marvel shows I enjoyed all the way through were Moon Knight, Hawkeye and FatWS, so what do I know. Loki was alright until they fucking shoehorned that horrid romance into it. Feh.

Anyway, thanks for sharing your thoughts Lovely <3

#steph replies #shitposting steph #my thoughts #marvel cinematic universe #doctor strange mom

[sweetdreamsbuck]

Is it confirmed in comic or movies or any insinuation that Bucky was raped? Or sexually assaulted? I see the headcanons and fics but I don’t know if it’s actually true or just theories

TW– RAPE AND PHYSICAL ABUSE well I have never actually read all of the comics, but I don't think explicitly it's been stated. (if someone knows the exact answer, please let me know!)

Bucky Barnes has been a victim, has been physically assaulted and his body has been used for countless years without his consent, by people with this really dangerous and uncontrollable power over him. We see it almost his entire screen time:( HYDRA, the doctors that used and abused him, dismantled him and literally fried him down to his very core. the information was never not intended to get into the hands of the wrong people... Zemo knows how to get what he wants, and we see another glimpse in FATWS of how natural it is for people to take Bucky's autonomy away from him– and to me, it is insinuated there as well that he has been raped. The way he talks of the WS, circling him, "he'll do whatever you want", the touching. (The look on Bucky's face that entire episode is devastating and gutting. He just wants to be respected damn it😭 the fact that they made him go through with any of that...) Remember, sexual assault has nothing to do with pleasure, connection, or sex. It is a complete display of abusive power and twisted dangerous control.

And with Bucky, we see how he went through a lot of responses shown in those who have experienced any similar trauma. he dissociates, becomes something that isn't himself, and I think the term is depersonalization. And in the MCU, people disrespect the fact Bucky is a human and is now trying to be one fully. even his asswipe of a therapist refuses to call him by the name he would like to be called, furthering the idea that Bucky Barnes will never have the boundaries and control he is 1) deserving of 2) protecting his want to live with 3) trying to find himself inside of. It all hurts my heart nonnie, he really is such a beautiful angel😭

unfortunately, it really isn't that far of a reach to assume the torture went any further as he was only ever viewed as a thing to be used without it ever granting consent. But what's really beautiful about Bucky (that the MCU clearly ignores times and time again) is he is a survivor through and through. And I wish his screen time became reflective of how strong and wonderful he is, how deserving he is of a life of peace and boundaries that are respected in abundance.

#sweet sweet asks <3 #Bucky Barnes

[logicalstansadvice]

Given he's been in every Captain America movie and was part of the main plot for two of them, It'll be very disappointing if he doesn't make an appearance. And what was the point of developing Sam's Bucky's friendship in FATWS only for them to not work together again? // I agree, and I definitely think Bucky might make an appearance, even if it's a short one. My theory is that he will show up in the beginning of the film only to establish that he has a lead on John Walker's activities, for example, and will be off to investigate (much like when Sam appeared in the beginning of Age of Ultron just to establish that he would be off looking for Bucky and that's why he's not involved in the main plot). And then he will show up again either at the end of the film or in the post-credits scene as a tease for the Thunderbolts movie, which will be released next.

💄

#logical stans advice #logicalstansadvice #opinion blog #sebastian stan #anonymous #asks answered #bucky barnes

[amarriageoftrueminds]

You know all this talk about peggy has made me think about the mcus history and how often they disrespected Jewish people and Jewish characters like why would you knowingly take inspiration from a character who was a nazi and try to make her a good person and then make two Jewish characters work for hydra.

If you look at Disney's particular sordid history of antisemitism and pro-Nazi-ism, it's pretty obvious why they would want to erase Jews and rehabilitate Nazis (if they're nice, then Disney's history is nice!)

It's also not surprising, given the state of Hollywood and the current political climate, that they'd end up hiring the sort of writers (and that the only writers who have careers which put them in a position to be hired by Disney in the first place are also the sort of people...) who see nothing wrong in writing Nazi characters as if they're nice. And re-writing non-WASP characters as WASP, in cases where that is possible.

It's not just erasure though.

If you look at AC, they introduce the only explicitly Jewish character, who wants children... only to have her sterilised.

In CATWS they have a truly nasty antisemitic stereotype of a Jewish-coded senator (as in: played by a Jewish actor and named after a famous Jewish pundit) who's secretly part of a global conspiracy to control the world (this obviously isn't from the Jewish-penned comics; in the comics the character he's based on is called Harrington Byrd, and is a WASP).

This specific antisemitic canard is called the 'New World Order' conspiracy theory. Which is... also what they named the first ep of FATWS, and what they, astonishingly, have named the next Captain America movie too.

And then you have a character like Wanda, supposed to be Romani and Jewish, reconfigured as willingly Hydra, (which... AOS also tried to re-write as not Nazi, as something explicitly pre-dating Nazi... as if that means it, somehow, predates Fascist values, like they just sprang out of thin air in the 1930s!)

And someone pointed out that the latest Dr Strange movie is just one big blood libel narrative with Scarlet Witch as a terrifying child snatcher.

The dog whistles have always been there, and they ain't getting any quieter.

#tw antisemitism #antisemitism #antipeggy #antisteggy #p*ggy meta #mcu meta #mcu critical #blood libel mention #steggy is hydra trash party #meta #mcu #hey nonny #toAyourQ #dat's me #tw disney #cynthia glass

[bedlamsbard]

Idly watching MCU trailers as YouTube presents them to me (I love watching trailers, especially for movies I’ve seen) and my main two thoughts are (a) the Black Widow trailers are for a completely different movie than the actual BW movie, but I’d watch either one happily, they’re just really misleading and (b) I wish The Falcon and the Winter Soldier had been half as fun as the FATWS trailers because the trailers were aces and the actual show was just. unbelievably dour. one of my least favorite MCU installments so far because I don’t think I had fun at any point while watching it, which sucks because I like both characters and in theory I should like the story because it was a lot of things I enjoy and have always thought the MCU should tackle.

#I think fatws got hit the hardest by covid fucking up the timeline #someday I'll try to do a phase four watch based on the pre-'covid fucked everything up' order just to see how it goes #bedlam watches the mcu

[where-theres-smoak-2]

Ok so I’m not sure this train of thought makes sense but I keep thinking about it. I don’t know about everyone else but I have been wondering how they’ll bring the xmen into the MCU and which characters will appear. But I did notice something and that is, there have been quite a few cameos of xmen actors in the marvel universe. One I think alot recognised was Evan Peters quicksilver in Wandavision. But I also noticed that there are two actors from Fox’s The Gifted in Falcon in the Winter soldier.  You’ve got Renes Rivera who played Bulk in The Gifted and then Lennox in FATWS:

There is also Danny Ramirez who plays both Wes in The Gifted and Joaquin Torres in TFATWS:

Obviously I am aware that this is likely just a coincidence but I do think its interesting even if they aren’t playing their mutant characters in the MCU projects.  

I think its a popular theory that Wanda will be the one who will cause mutants to appear in the MCU. So if it is Wanda that brings mutants into her universe then to me it would make sense if that character has a connection to Wanda in some way. Personally there is another The Gifted actor/character I would love to see in the MCU and that I think would make sense for the story line. How about we bring in Emma Dumont’s Lorna/Polaris: 

So spoiler alert for the comics for those who don’t know and don’t want to know but at some point (I think it got retconned but everyone ignores that) Lorna and Wanda were sisters and both the daughters of Magneto. At the moment Wanda is pretty lonely and traumatised, she’s lost her brother, her husband and had to give up her children. In the Gifted Lorna also had to give up her daughter for her own safety so if Wanda did somehow pull Lorna into her universe, one they might be able to bond because of their sibling connection, but also they might be able to relate because they’ve both had to give up their children in some way or another. I don’t know how likely it is for this to happen though, I think I may just be desperate to see more of Emma Dumont’s Polaris because she was pretty awesome. Also if Lorna appears then maybe other characters from the gifted might and yes I am still bitter about the fact that the Gifted got cancelled and will do anything to see those characters again. But I also still think it would be really cool to see Wanda and Lorna share the screen together.  

#the gifted #mcu #lorna dane #wanda maximoff #wandavison spoilers

[piepeloe]

She-Hulk S1E1

I truly enjoyed that! Probably more than I expected I would. it's not perfect, I have some quibbles, but the humor works and I like Jen.

This got long and potentially spoiler-y, so here's a cut

I was mainly interested because of Bruce as he's one of my favorite MCU characters. I'm glad the show confirmed my theory that Smart Hulk is the two identities (Bruce & Hulk) merged, and not just Bruce in the Hulk's body. Because, yeah, Smart Hulk does not act like Bruce would IMO.

They improved on both Bruce and Smart Hulk by no longer making them caricatures. But I do still prefer OG Bruce, so I was a bit disappointed we only got 2min of him.

FYI: the merger of both is the only way I can ever accept the brawl at the end, so I don't care if they retcon it later. That fight between the cousins was the low-points of the ep, though I get they couldn't not have the Hulks fighting. Ugh.

Also glad to have nods to Bruce's trauma, to all the work he did to manage his condition, to how it affected his life. But even more so: they finally hinted at some form of DID, how there's 'more than just his hands on the wheel'

It's why I don't mind that Jen is 'better' than he is: she became a Hulk in a different way, she's apparently genetically different, she has a stable life and experience with yoga and the like (compared to Bruce being on the run), she knows someone who's been through it before and can learn from him, etc.

The only thing that annoyed me was the idea that being a woman magically primes you for being a Hulk. The only reason they could pull that off was because the MCU never established that Bruce had an abusive childhood the way the comics did.

I liked the mention of Tony and their friendship. The franchise has memorialized him a couple of times, but this was the first time it was just a friend reminiscing and not talk of a heroic sacrifice or something. I wish we could have gotten this in FATWS for Steve, instead it was all about 'Cap's legacy'.

I do not get why people are freaking out about Cap and his virginity. It's inappropriate, but people do ask stuff like that about celebrities. Also, if it doesn't fit your headcanon: maybe Bruce lied? She was crying when he said it. Or Steve lied? Why would he tell any of the Avengers anything like that anyway?

I laughed at the mention of the lullaby. I'm sorry, but 'how did that work?', that's hilarious.

Finally, yeah it is starting to look like maybe some kind of World War Hulk storyline is coming. I haven't read it but apparently it's great. It sounds like they'd have to alter it a lot for the MCU though and I can't say I'd want to see the original? I muss Bruce and Hulk from the 1st Avengers movie.

Tbh, I do think we'll only have a sense of what the show will be like starting from the next ep. This was just the origin and training, we haven't seen Jen's life yet. The credits listed Ruffalo as a special guest star, so I doubt he'll be in every ep which might be for the best in the end.

#she hulk #spoilers #she hulk spoilers #bruce banner #smart hulk

[bookishwenchmeltha]

Thought (aka totally inaccurate fan theory):

That wasn't Steve at the end of Endgame. Steve doesn't age. In fact, Steve is very much alive. He delivered all the stones back to their original places. He also brought Nat's body home for Yelena, so that's not a cenotaph. And he lived out the rest of Peggy's life with her after he accomplished his task.

But Cap doesn't age. At least not like a normal person. So that's not Steve talking to Sam.

So, my explanation? The theory about Cap being on the moon in FatWS? True. Maybe he's working with Fury and Carol.

So who was that guy who handed the shield to Sam? Possibly someone who had posed as Steve before. Someone who is supposedly dead, and is supposed to be living on a barren, lifeless rock in the middle of nowhere out of contact with everyone, which actually sounds a lot like Vormir. Someone who got bored and when the overly patriotic, annoying human showed up, decided anything was better than being stuck there any longer.

Just a thought. ;)

#idon'tlikestevebeingdead #iwillalsoinsertLokiliterallyanywhere #thatcameoutwrong #orrightactually

[littlemissidontcare]

May I ask what signs. I was in the fandom then and don’t remember any but could be forgetting / there was a model from his larger friends' circle, Tiffany (he follows her on ig), and LOS + several tumblr blogs kept an eye on her. They were apparently in the same locations several times, some of her posts seemed like hints (lol i know how it sounds yeah), then when the filming for FATWS began in October 2019 she came to Atlanta and posted a selfie wearing Marvel merch. She stayed there till early/mid-December. After NYE Sebastian went to a short vacation to St. Barts and posted a picture of 2 chaise-longue on the beach, and one of her friends posted and deleted a story about her going somewhere with a man...don't remember this part but there was smth in that story that suggested (both timing-, wording-, and location-wise) that she flew with Sebastian. She seemingly came back to US around the same time as him. Of course it was all very uncertain, but it was one of the theories. There were some small details about her posts that people mentioned but I can't remember anything by now, surprised i even remember this honestly. ReasonableSpeculation blog had it, Kevin too. Maybe Princess as well. And, as i said, LOS, but her old acc is long gone.

[lethalprotectors]

FatWS e2 Spoiler:

After the whole couples therapy scene and Dr. Raynor asks Bucky what's wrong and he asks, "What was rule number two again?" what if that wasn't about him questioning why he had to go fight the flag smashers and potentially hurt those people and go against all he's just learned, but because he was upset at the fact that he just hurt Sam emotionally, and he was mad that she led them into that situation where he said hurtful things to Sam.

#fatws #fatws theory #tv: fatws #fatws spoilers #fatws bucky #fatws sam #fatws episode 2 #tfatws #tfatwsdaily #dr raynor #falcon and the winter soldier series #the falcon and the winter solider spoilers #falcon and the winter soldier #falcon and winter solider spoilers #sam wilson #captain sam wilson #falcon #bucky barnes #james buchanan bucky barnes #winter soldier #bucky barnes angst #theory #marvel theories #marvel #mcu #sambucky #sambucky angst #but like that whole scene anyways

[luke-o-lophus]

From "it always ends in a fight"

To this ending

#bucky barnes #sebastian stan #bucky #avengers #buckybarnesedit #sam wilson #avengers headcanon #falcon #fatws spoilers #fatws theory #fatws series #fatws ep 6 #fatws bucky #sambucky

[inevitably-johnlocked]

More Thoughts on MoonKnight E4

I just really need to talk some more about this episode, I’m so sorry it’s not my usual content, but this episode has been niggling at my brain rent-free since it aired, to the point where I’ve had to rewatch it a few times and now my meta-brain which LOVES doing character studies has been firing all weekend and won’t leave me alone until I write this down. Spoilers, discussion about mental health, and frustration with a tired-assed trope below cut.

Please know, before I begin, what I know about DID is based on reading wikipedia and mental health resources online, and watching a few systems on YouTube. I am not a professional, just someone who reads a lot about mental health to help understand my own issues, as well as someone who likes doing fictional character studies as a hobby. PLEASE correct me if I’m wrong anywhere and please call out anything offensive, I will fix.

First though, I need to get this off my chest: 

I’m frustrated with the pre-E5 theories (especially now that everyone is caught up to the press and no one knows what will happen) that insinuate Marc is “just crazy” and the whole series is all in his head and that the psych hospital was “the real world”, even though it’s SO FUCKING OBVIOUS it’s not (sharp and breakable objects everywhere should have been the first red flag).

I HATE HATE HATE those theories, and there are a couple big-name YouTube review channels that are dying on this hill (one was JUST uploaded this morning AGAIN), and it’s SO frustrating. I GET that Marc/Steven are unreliable narrators, and that’s the point of the show, but for some reason these theories specifically bug me. Not sure if it’s because: 

It’s such a TIRED ASSED trope that I’ve seen done ad nauseam;  

I can’t speak for anyone with DID, but... to me this theory seems SUPER insensitive?? Marvel SEEMS to already have kind of been trying to be treating this character and his disorder respectfully, and these reviewers’ are treating it like Marvel would take this route for a "what a TWIST!” in their penultimate episode, which with these shows have statistically been the “all plot threads are coming together and now the main lead understands themselves better” episodes (see WandaVision, FATWS, Hawkeye...). WandaVision explored Wanda’s past / psyche, and I think we’re getting that too with Marc/Steven/Third Alter. Or; 

I’m low-key suffering second-hand embarrassment because this “everything or nothing is a dream” is the same stuff I’ve been through already with Sherlock, but to varying degrees and I’m just tired of it I guess. Maybe I’m having some mild flashbacks from that time, specifically with one theory I disagree with that I’ve talked about a few times.

I actually prefer and suspect, working on the data we already know about the characters (and again, probably as someone whose been through this all before with Sherlock and trying to figure out the whole “being shot” sequence), that this weird final 10 minutes is actually Marc’s version of Sherlock’s Mind Palace, sort of how Marc is coping with his own death, either in his Inner Space or within his own perception of the Egyptian underworld. The lights and everything falling sideways? Marc’s body being moved on the outside as someone is trying to save his life.

Okay, now that that’s out of the way, some stuff I absolutely adored about this episode:

LAYLA. Holy shit, I want to marry her. I love her. Marc is a big dummy for pushing her away, and it’s no wonder Steven is smitten with her.

Steven is SO innocent and genuine, I love him so much. He instinctually knows what Marc should have done (by telling Layla why he was pushing her away), which in turn shows that Steven is the more empathic of the two. Marc even comments on it later that it was “unexpected” that Steven would have done that and that Layla reacted the way she did. Steven can read people better than Marc. I like that they’re showing each of them realizing their strengths in this episode.

Steven geeking out NEVER gets old for me. I relate to him so much, hahha.

Layla and Steven as a ship, it’s a sweet dynamic with chemistry that’s so innocent and genuine. I actually ship it more than Marc/Layla, but I, regardless, love the idea of Layla accepting Marc is a System and she will love all of them by the end of the series. Layla is seeing this whole other side to her husband that he has (understandably) hidden from her, and trying her best to understand it. I think through Steven she sees just how much her husband feels he has to hide from the world, and I think by this point she understands how much Marc is struggling and trying to show them that the system doesn’t have to be alone.

Love the payoff of two one-liners in this episode. The first is “I’ll throw us off a cliff”, which is followed up by Steven falling into the pit, literally looking like he was thrown into it. The second and more ominous one that foreshadows the climax of the episode is Steven asking Marc if “you’re gonna drown us now?” and Marc replies “Maybe.”... which kind of foreshadows Marc’s second death falling into the water and metaphorically drowning them both into the inner space/underworld.

Steven and Marc reuniting in the ward (more in next section). It was sweet and just showed how much they need each other.

Just Steven and Marc in general, slowly coming to understand each. I’m interested in what this will do with another alter introduced (it’s obvious to me that the “twist” in E5 will be the third alter introduction, which will be satisfying because they put the clues there since episode one for you to figure it out) into the system, and how they inevitably come to work together and learn that they all serve important functions for the system, and that they all need each other. 

I loved the whole... aesthetic of this episode. Tomb Raider meets Indiana Jones meets creepy fantasy-horror elements meets the fantastical meets psychological mindfuck. 

GOD, Ethan Hawke is a FANTASTIC villain. Creepy, charismatic, vindictive, and cruel in a subtle way. Great choice. 

Oscar’s acting, holy toledo. The confrontation scene with Harrow and Marc was AMAZING, and until Marc and Steven were on screen together, I didn’t realize how MUCH character Oscar put into each alter... I REALLY believed he had a twin acting alongside him. Amazing.

Only TWO gunshots, I think is SUPER SIGNIFICANT. One for Marc, one for Steven, both in the heart (which was established in an earlier episode was important for keeping in tact in Egyptian mummification... BRILLIANT Chekov’s gun getting its payoff in episode 5 or 6, I hope), because they’re the only two alters that Harrow knows about... I think it’s the THIRD alter, which I suspect is a Protector Alter for the system, will be the one who they need to learn to accept into the system and help them come back. This DELIBERATE showing of ONLY TWO shots, and BOTH into the heart was very good.

Taweret is so cute OMG. I’ve been learning a few things about her from Wiki and videos, and she isn’t just a fertility goddess, but also one who helps with REBIRTH, which I think is a BIG important theme... Marc / Steven / Altar 3 will be “reborn” as a full system who have learned to work together after their mind-journey in E5 (rather than hide from each other) to stop Ahmmet and Harrow.

And totally selfish: I REALLY want to be hugged by Oscar Isaac, OMG, that was such a snuggle hug that I crave so bad.

Finally, I need to talk about that WHOLE psych ward scene, because it was HEARTBREAKING for me. This show is doing a great job at having its audience sympathise with Marc and Steven, but I found that I was less invested in Marc UNTIL this scene. After just ten minutes, I adored him and I just wanted to give him a big hug, because this scene (after a rewatch) emphasizes just how chaotic Marc’s mind is, and how horrific his trauma that caused the DID must have been.

First, the fact that his inner-world is a psych ward screams to me that he has probably spent a LONG time in and out of hospitals just like it. It’s a place of familiarity, and probably “safety” of sorts for Marc as his dying mind retreats here to cope with it.

The fact that everyone he has ever met as either Marc or Steven in recent memory show up here makes me think that his initial reincarnation by Khonshu was traumatic enough to fracture the walls between he and Steven (given that there is a drawing of Khonshu in this memory palace, I am linking it to the resurrection). Every person they have recently interacted with affects them on a subconscious level... I haven’t worked out why it’s only recent people and not people from his past yet, but if rumours are true that E5 is about Marc’s childhood thru to his first death, I’m hoping that will be answered. 

The dialogue in this WHOLE scene from various characters is SCREAMING to me that this is all shit Marc has had to deal with before: • With Layla, “You Won” vs “We won” vs “I won”: I’m wondering if Marc feels some sort of resentment towards Layla for something here. OR if because he, as Steven, not minutes before, uttered “We won” that this is fresh on his mind, and he’s feeling resentment for that. Hmm. • “Here you are, you’re favourite spot” from the cop-orderly, who parks Marc right in front of what INITIALLY seems like a wall, but is actually a reflective surface, and we also discover that he’s chained to his chair and drugged up the wazoo: I suspect that this has happened to Marc for real, and it fucking HURTS me. Drugged and tied up to a chair probably because his other unknown alter is a little-less-passive and probably is a Protector for the system... In turn that Protector – if Marc’s trauma got so bad he ended up in a hospital numerous times unwillingly – possibly fronted every time and fought all of the staff to the point of him needing to be drugged and chained to “stay calm”. And I imagine, in the past, he may have had an orderly take pity and let him sit in front of the only reflective surface they had in bright-light settings so he could talk to Steven at the very least.  Also, I think it’s important to point out, the absolute FEAR when Marc calls for Steven in this scene. It broke my heart because it suddenly clicked to me after a second rewatch that Marc can’t FEEL or even SEE Steven, and that’s why he’s scared – possibly it’s how he felt every time he was drugged, being forced to lose the person/people who helped him cope with his trauma... I feel like he and Steven, at one time, were aware of each other on the regular and shared a close bond, and every time Marc was forced into this similar situation, it terrified him because he COULDN’T FEEL STEVEN and as such, Steven couldn’t take that fear away from Marc (my theory is that Steven is the one who bears the weight of all the fear and anxieties the system has and just goes with it, so Marc dealing with that on his own is traumatic in itself) • With Harrow again in the Office: Basically everything he says SCREAMS shit Marc (and many other people with mental health issues and illnesses) has heard before... the gaslighting (making Marc question his reality); “you’re only sedated because of your own actions” (refer back to the Protector alter point I made above); Harrow belittling Marc’s need for Steven and Marc’s need to deflect; belittling Marc’s triggers; “I understand how you’re feeling [...] you can be healed... this one hurts the most because of HOW it’s said, more like “you’re broken and we can fix you and make you ‘normal’” which I’m sure he’s been told so many times by people in his life. • Finally, the reunion with Steven. Up until this point, the two seemed to have a bit of a contentious but begrudging respect for each other. This scene though... holy shit it was powerful. Marc and Steven reunite, and grip each other tightly, knowing now how much they need each other to survive. It’s a sweet scene that broke my heart, because here in the inner world (which Marc I think understands he’s in in some capacity) he can’t FEEL Steven, but if he sees him, knows he’ll be okay. I also find it interesting that Marc pointedly ignores the other sarcophagus, but if you watch Steven in the background you see him a bit puzzled as to why they’re bypassing it, even pointing at it behind Marc’s back. I think that’s important because I think Steven KNOWS on a subconscious level they need to free the third alter, but Marc – for some reason we do not know yet – is either oblivious to who is in there, or is not ready to face that trauma that caused the need for a third altar to begin with.

I think in the end, we will see all three come to an understanding that they need each other and all of their talents and skills will in turn make them a formidable opponent. I feel like the end will be their system finally working as one, and finally at peace with each other (if my understanding of the Lemire run of Moon Knight is correct, a similar thing happened at the end)

Also, kind of unrelated, but I think it would be interesting if by the end it’s STEVEN who fronts more than Marc, rather than the other way around, as a flip on the comics, which Marvel tends to do with their shows. I dunno, maybe I’m just biased because I love Steven, and I want to see him interact with the other characters, and because I want him to meet Dr. Strange and go “I’m Steven with a V!” because I adore his innocence and his ability to find positives in everything.

Anyway. I love this show. I look forward to see if Marvel either fucks it up completely (I have found – with the exception of Hawkeye – that all their final episodes for these shows have been really lacklustre, and I would hate for this one to just... fall at the end) or if they cement Moon Knight as a character I want to see more of. I think I like this show so much is BECAUSE it’s so detached from the MCU, it’s got a character that is GENUINELY interesting and so different that they’re actually putting focus on, and it’s a nice change of pace. I like the genre switch too, hope that we’re done with all the big blow-uppy shit and focus more on the supernatural, magical and psychological. Interested to see if this ties into MoM which comes out the week of the finale... I have a feeling they will, that timing (and the MoM reshoots and rewrites following the schedule reshuffling of the TV Shows) is NOT a coincidence, in my opinion.

Thanks for reading, all. I LOVE doing character studies so much. I’ll probably have more to say following Episode 5. We’ll see. E4 and 5 are usually the best ones of these shows.

#moonknight meta #my ramblings #moonknight #spoilers #character study #my meta #marc spector #not sherlock #i am not a professional

[logicalstansadvice]

I think with Bucky, any woman who has a relationship with him is going to get hate because he belongs to the biggest ship in the MCU: Stucky. See Sharon and Steve. She received so much hate because of that kiss, that the MCu ended the relationship without even trying to fix it. With Sarah there is definitely racism, but I think any woman will get hate. There are already complaints about alleged romance between him and Yelena.

Anon 2: Anon 5: add in the "Bucky just thinks of Steve's mom when he hears Sarah's name, so he couldn't be attracted to her" theories floating around the time FATWS came out 🙄. // I do remember that, now that you reminded me. Did anyone say things to Adepero directly? 😬

Ruby Woo - I don't think so. That made the rounds on tumblr mostly, I think (hope).

#logical stans advice #logicalstansadvice #asks answered