#fanon kataang

[fanfic-lover-girl]

#kataang #zutara #hinny #drarry #dramione #romione #fandom meme #canon shippers vs fanon shippers #pro zutara #wolfstar #some of the best content comes from fanon #i dont ship all these fanon couples but i have seen canon shippers complaining about them #should it tag this as anti? im not bashing the ships so it should be fine?

[punkeropercyjackson]

At this point 'The hero always has to get the girl' is slang for 'Weh weh my female fave choose the protagonist because they're best friends instead of my edgy boi who EARNED her' and i refuse to let it slide in 2024.C'mon be serious,if you want the edgy boi to get the girl but it actually being well-written read Bleach and watch Adventure Time like the rest of us

#'edgy boi' being ichigo marceline(butch)and marshall lee and 'the girl' being orihime bonnibel and gary(bigender) #anti zutara #anti reylo #antikacchako #anti harry potter #< the fandom and fanon as a whole #ichihime #bubbline #gumlee tag #kataang #finnrey #anti bakugou #izuocha #warren x layla #lukanette #todomomo #atla geekery #sw #bnha geekery #bleach #adventure time #fionna and cake #cisheteronormativity #gender stereotypes #nice guy syndrome #💌 #summerposting #t4t #sky high #EDIT:THIS ISN'T ANTI LUKANETTE OR WARREN X LAYLA HOLY SHIT I FORGOT TO SAY THAT THEY'RE LITERALLY THE BEST

[gettingovershame]

I love the idea of Bumi II being aroace. 🧡💛🤍🩵💙

I like the idea that he defies expectations just by being himself.

I like thinking that this sailor/soldier and world-famous-nepo-baby DOESN’T have a lover waiting for him at every port. And that his wild adventure stories are never a seduction tactic… they just are!

And sure there’s the obvious source of angst: “The firstborn child of the Avatar and the last Waterbender of the SWT (two of the strongest benders in the world) turns out to be a Non-Bender.” … but there’s also the implied angst: The likelihood of Bumi II wanting to produce children that are SWT benders or that carry Airbender genetics/Air-Nomad heritage is lower.

Im just saying… with how much time Katara and Aang spend in their tweenage hormones throughout ATLA … it’d be ironic if their first kid was just unconcerned with all that mess.

#bumi ii #please make this fanon #reblog to spread the word #character study #tlok #tlok bumi #kataang #I know that Bumi II and Uncle Sokka had amazing bonding time #but Sokka for sure scratched his head at Bumi II a few times #good uncle sokka #bumju #cloud kids #Kya II is also a waterbender and a Lesbian so … #She could have had kids with a woman-of-trans-experience but DIDN’T #Grandpa Hakoda had a learning curve but he got it #eventually #aroace bumi ii

[crienselt]

So a few days ago I saw someone (elsewhere) questioning Zutara fans’ excitement about the scarf scene. It wasn't a mean comment, more general curiosity. And well, I didn't have time to get my thoughts out then. But they haven't gone away, so I'm getting them out here:

Here’s what everyone need to understand about Zutara shippers. We were baited baaaad during the initial run of the show–from the magazines to the shorts to the trailers and how they were cut. And Zuko and Katara’s relationship on the show certainly underwent a lot of development and featured objectively emotional–if not overtly romantic–moments between the two. We were well fed, and we had reason to hope. Right up to the end, we had reason to hope.

The shipping wars were the shipping wars, of course, with all the usual tensions; there are always going to be overzealous fans of each (and any) pairing willing to get toxic. Generally, I think Kataang fans were always jealous of Zutara’s popularity and Zutara fans, post finale, were jealous of Kataang’s, well, canon status. But really it operated much the same as any other large fandom’s shipping wars.

And then came Bryke and the panel where they showed and mocked Zutara fan art, some of which had been created by teens if not straight up children. Then came their, “Come on, kids! It was never going to work. Zutara is just dark and intriguing.”* And the pièce de résistance, their telling Zutara shippers (specifically girls/women) that they were doomed to have failed romantic relationships. Like, what? The thing with the art was arguably cruel, and the rest of it was oh, so condescending. Just all around not well done. 

The after effect was that Zutara went from being simply a fanon pairing to a wrong pairing. The ATLA fandom at large became a far more hostile place for Zutara fans, who were now more commonly deemed delusional and viewed as lesser fans. The vitriol only got worse when the show came to Netfilx and the next wave of antis rolled up with their co-opting of legitimate socio-political terms to paint Zutara not just as wrong but morally corrupt if not evil. It’s all very puritanical.**

So Zutara fans need to be reminded that we weren’t delusional, and we aren’t alone. It’s why it means so much to know that Dante Basco and Mae Whitman shipped their characters. And that so many other VAs came out as Zutara supporters too: Jack De Sena, Michaela Jill Murphy, Grey DeLisle, Janet Varney--even the cabbage man. For it to be revealed that it was discussed in the writers room; that the writers fought over it; that it WAS a canon possibility. (And that writers Joshua Hamilton and John O’Bryan are perfectly comfortable admitting their preference for Zutara.) To know that the Elizabeth Welch Ehasz described Zuko and Katara as an “Avatar-style Mr. and Mrs. Smith,” in the script for The Southern Raiders, and used the phrase “Zutara-feuling synchronicity and cooperation” to describe their action sequences. To see Giancarlo Volpe, a Kataanger, admit Zutara might been the better pairing in retrospect and choose a quiet scene between them (to see their “chemistry”) as what he’d most look forward to in the live action adaptation. It’s why we cling to the artwork done by Korean animation director. We aren’t delusional. We aren’t alone.

But try telling that to the general fandom, right? Most are ignorant of a lot of this, particularly Hamilton and O’Bryan’s revelations re: the writers room. A lot of Zutara fans don't even seem to know. But being baited by Netflix on their official accounts? Oh, people see that. And we are reminded in a big way that we aren't delusional and we aren't alone. And everyone else has to remember it too.

So, of course, we're having fun clowning over the scarf scene. And I think most Zutara fans know we are clowning. I don't think most expect to get canon Zutara in live action because of one little scene or the fact that their Netflix icons are facing each other. (I headcanon that that was totally the doing of Zutara shipper on staff, though, lol. Because there are a lot of us, and we are everywhere.)

And this is okay. Zutara has been doing just fine as a fanon ship. Meanwhile, NATLA might actually do Kataang justice. It always worked better as a future ship. (Really all the pairings do. But I especially don't ever need to see another 12 year old kissing let alone making out, in animation or live action, ever again.) There's a reason Padme and Anakin don't get together in Phantom Menace, after all. Also, there's always the chance they could give us Dante's or Mae's headcanon of them basically suppressing their feelings and choosing duty over love/right person-wrong time. And the odds of getting some more moments to clown over are high enough. 

Anyway, TLDR: Zutara has been made to feel like an out-of-nowhere crack ship and the live action crumbs remind us that it is not. And this is at least partially why we are enjoying it. (Because, also, it's just fun!)

*Side tangent: I’ve never gotten this dark and intriguing comment. Even during Season 1, the height of the capture fic era, Zutara was always a ship fundamentally about hope, predicated on Zuko's redemption. (Back in the day, there were also plenty of antis arguing that there was no way Zuko would ever be one of the gaang.) And they say “intriguing” like it’s a bad thing? Are we not supposed to be interested in the relationships of their characters???

**There have been some very good think pieces written lately on late stage capitalism and consumption as morality. Worth googling.

#Zutara #atla #natla

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

You're saying that zutara wasn't supported by the writers and shouldn't have been an endgame. That's a lie! and you can verify this, for example, by reading this post. Zutara has a huge support of writers and actors, she was supposed to become a canon! We were just robbed.

https://www.tumblr.com/crienselt/744143410729041920?source=share

I can show you lots of videos of Grey Delisle saying Azula and Zuko are totally fucking (including one she recorded for my birthday), and there's an infamous clip of Bryke proposing Azula and "The Blue Spirit" as a potential ship in a pannel. Somehow I don't think you'll take that as meaning my OTP is canon and was just robbed of it's endgame at the last second - but apparently tumblr posts are solid proof, therefore my argument is perfect and all you Zutara fans are now gonna have to accept that you ship Katara with a guy that canonically (by the standards YOU GUYS are trying to set at least) loves incest even more than Jaime and Cersei Lannister did. And oh, would you look at that! During one of the times Grey mentioned Zucest, Dante said "The Fire Nation are a bit like the Lannisters." See the links if you don't believe me. WHERE'S YOUR GOD NOW?

The creators/showrunners, writers, and lead writer have all said a billion times "Kataang was always the heart of the show and by the time the first episode aired we were set on it being endgame. Some people in the crew liked BOTH Kataang and Zutara, but Zutara was NEVER seriously considered as a real possibility for endgame or even temporary romance. The only love triangle ever considered was Aang, Katara and MALE Toph."

It doesn't matter how many interviews yall fake, how many clips you take out of context, how many deleted scenes you claim existed without a shred of proof to back it up, how many times you go "but this actor whose job is ACTING not WRITTING says he likes Zutara" or "This writer that wrote tons of Kataang episodes said the word Zutara once when writting a scene between Zuko and Katara" - your ship is still fanon. That's not a dig at you or saying it's bad, it's just a fucking fact.

Write some fanfic if you like it so much, but don't turn the production of the series itself into your fanfic just so you can lie to yourself about how there was ever any chance of you getting what you wanted in the actual canon.

And for real, you're gonna try to use the LIVE ACTION as proof? The thing the creators disowned? Netflix's over-glorified cosplay session that everyone keeps saying "It's mid at best" is THE argument you go for? Have some goddamn standards, I'm begging you.

#anti zutara

[sokkastyles]

I have a question, I know we know that shipping does not equal morality. And I get that, and I really like that. However, on my other blog, that should have been my main blog (yes I am that dumb). I have talked about Aang's non-consensual and criticized how Kataang is written, however, if you ship Kataang I won't come for your throat because that's not my style. I know the few misogynists/antis on here and on Twitter, and I don't want to let a few bad apples be my impression of a fandom, that's not fair, So now I'm side-eyeing myself over my past remarks. Likewise, I know shipping is not equal to morality, but I also want to criticize Kataang because of how flawed it is and how wrong that kiss was (and other things). I have no idea what I'm saying because at this point I'm rambling. What do you think?

Well, there is a difference between criticizing a ship and criticizing canon. I don't honestly care what people ship. I use the antikataang tag because I don't want to argue with people who do ship it, but that doesn't mean I won't be critical of what is in the show. I think expecting people not to engage critically with media is absolute nonsense. But there is a difference between engaging critically with the actual media and criticizing people's fanon or headcanons, which is where you get away from critically engaging with canon and move into the area of criticizing other people's opinions, which is how arguments start.

Like, there isn't really any actual concrete argument you can make to criticize zutara, because zutara does not exist in canon. It's all fanon and headcanons and speculation. And criticizing other people's opinions just makes you look like a dick.

You also have to take into account the intention behind something. The thing about the way Katara's relationship with Aang is presented is that we're supposed to root for Aang to get Katara, and every obstacle towards that end is just there to create dramatic tension for the male point of audience identification. That's the real problem with the noncon kiss, and people who are critical of it are right to point it out.

In contrast, when I say shipping isn't morality, I'm talking about people who write, let's say, dubcon zutara fics. Fanfiction as a genre is largely female-centered fantasy. Yes, even those lurid fics you're thinking of. People write and read these fics for completely different reasons and have completely different expectations than when watching a series like ATLA. Trying to say that someone can't criticize the way the show presents Aang kissing Katara after she said she was confused as a mistake to be glossed over (that is forgotten as soon as it happens) because they also happen to like reading darkfic is nonsense. There's also a long history of women's interests being policed that informs my views here, vs the fact that consent has only fairly recently become a conversation in mainstream media. You have only to look at the way the show itself portrays Katara having interests (especially in boys) outside of Aang as dark and dangerous to see this happening in ATLA itself. Or the way the creators got away with saying that zutara shippers are doomed to end up in abusive relationships while painting Aang as a typical Nice Guy stereotype who expects Katara to magically become his girlfriend (and gets angry when she doesn't) and seeing nothing wrong with it.

The thing is that zutara, if we look at the way it's written in canon as a metaphor for a romantic relationship, follows the same tradition of how fanfiction has historically existed as an exploration of romantic and sexual dynamics. Those conversations about consent are actually happening and being explored in fanfiction, even the dark stuff, whereas relationships that are presented as "wholesome" often push us to NOT have those conversations. So when I say shipping isn't morality, what I actually mean is that noncanon shipping and darkfic actually has more of a moral leg to stand on than uncritically engaging with relationships on the grounds that Aang is the hero so his goodness and worthiness to get the girl should just be assumed. Zuko has to work for his right to be in a relationship with Katara because he didn't start out from a place of goodness, and that, on its own, is very female centered because instead of starting out from the perspective of the male hero deserving a relationship by virtue of being the hero, we see the idea that a man has to work to gain a woman's respect and affection.

So it's not so much that I hate KA, but I hate the idea that we should engage in it uncritically. And that would be true even if it really was the most wholesome relationship in the world. The same thing cannot be true of zutara because even the darkest of darkfic are about women centering themselves in the narrative and engaging with power dynamics in ways that are subverting patriarchal norms about relationships by definition.

#zutara #antikataang #the discourse

[darklinaforever]

So the delusion of "colonization" on Zutara is coming back in force after NATLA ? My God. It's been 20 years. People still can't learn the definitions of the words they use ? (Especially since it's never brought up when people ship Zuko & Sokka or Katara and Azula... Also since once, a fan of Azula & Katara came to lecture me on the fact of loving Zutara who apparently would be an ultra sexualized ship while... Well what she reblogs or says on her own ship is of a sexual nature. The double standards compared to Zutara have always been blatant. Zutara triggers / annoys some for... reasons ?) Nor to let go of their hatred ? People have differences of opinion and differences whether you like it or not. Honestly, I think what annoys the antis the most about Zutara is that of all the fanon ships, there was really a discussion in the writers' room about whether to do Zutara instead of Kataang or not and that there are traces of this in the original series. That and also the fact that it's easier to type on a "heterosexual" ship than a ship between two men and two women. Because here, there is no risk of being called homophobic.

#zutara #pro zutara #zuko x katara #katara x zuko #zuko and katara #katara and zuko #katara #pro katara #zuko #pro zuko #prince zuko #pro prince zuko #fire lord zuko #pro fire lord zuko #anti kataang #anti maiko #atla #avatar : the last airbender #avatar the last airbender #natla

[empressofthesunslittlecorner]

Let's talk about Zutara

WARNING NOT KATAANG AND MAIKO FRIENDLY

CONTINUE WITH PRECAUTION

I thought I should finally use this second blog of mine for the reason I made it.

To scream into the void and find mutals.

So let's talk about one Ship which people to this day fight over.

The fanon ship (at it pains me to write this) made out of Zuko and Katara from Avatar the Last Airbender aka. Zutara.

I read a lot of analyses, arguments and so on about this ship.

It probably all has been said about Zutara, but since I'm writing an AangXOC story which will include Zutara, I felt like I should give my stance on it.

Back when Avatar first aired in the country I lived in the time I was like 11-12 years old.

I had an instant crush on Aang since he was so funny, kind and gentle.

I never saw Aang's crush on Katara as a problem, because it always seemed to me, till season 3, that Katara was just motherly to Aang.

Giving a friend a cheek kiss in thanks doesn't automatically mean that you like-like them.

At this time I only really shipped Sokka and Yue and cried my eyes out how it ended.

And then the famous scene from book 2 in the crystal catacombs under Ba Sing Se happened.

Short recap, in that season Zuko goes through a lot of chances and I root for, wishing him the best.

Now back to the scene, I said.

The scene turned me into a Zutara shipper in one instant.

Zuko and Katara opening up to each other, sharing their traumas and feelings about the Fire Nation, Katara offering to heal his scare...it was poetic cinema.

I was shivering all over and was like kiss, kiss, kiss!

Let's not forget that before this scene I didn't even see them as a potential couple...but this scene, this beautiful moment they shared with each other, opened my eyes.

I was like, yeah this is it, this is something one should want from a partner. Mutual understanding.

Then Zuko decided to betray Katara for a chance to go home and I cried right there with our favourite waterbender.

I felt also betrayed.

The scene they shared made me feel things, which I experienced as a young girl for the first time, I felt the connection between Zuko and Katara like it was my own.

I was Katara at this moment and couldn't believe that the boy who opened up to me, who understood what it was like to have their mother taken away from the Fire Nation, who said that he wanted to change, that he turned his back on me.

Didn't I/Katara mean nothing to him?

Didn't he feel how special our/their moment was?

I was devasted.

When Zuko then joined the Gaang in the middle of season 3 I could understand Katara's anger towards him.

Katara and I trusted him first and he betrayed our trust.

We had a right to be angry.

As the Southern Raiders came on, as I saw how flawlessly they worked as a team, I felt my own heart heal.

I swerve to this day, that I thought they would kiss at the end of the episode, but we got a hug.

However, this hug, made me feel all giddy and mushy inside.

I felt it was something special.

Maybe even more than a kiss.

It was a huge of forgiveness and the start of a new bond.

And then the last episode comes on.

Zuko sacrificed himself to save Katara from Azula lighting, she healed him then...I thought, yes this is it, now comes the kiss...but nothing.

Then suddenly Zuko is back together with Mai and I was like WTF?!

And Aang and Katara share this really intense kiss at the end.

I was literally like:

It came out of nowhere for me.

That Aang wasn't over his crush on Katara we all know, but when did Katara decide she liked Aang?

When did this realisation happen, when in the Ember Island Player, which was like a few days before Sozin's Comet Katara made clear that she didn't want to have a romance or get kissed by Aang, which he didn't respect.

Did he ever actually apologise for the unwanted kiss? I don't think so.

Remember I had a crush on Aang, but through the seasons I became a Zutara Shipper and literally felt all their moments like they were my own.

I was Katara and Aang wasn't on my radar anymore.

I really doubted my interpretation skill, did all these lovely, mushy, heartful moments have been really romantic or did I project?

I felt like Zuko and Katara had broken up with me.

Yeah, so much inpact had their "friendly" moments at me!

To this day, the hug Katara and Zuko shared on the Southern Raiders is one of the most lovely moments of any of my ships.

Not even kissing made me feel, what this hug made me feel.

Think about how powerful this is!

If Zutara had kissed, I would have probably passed out or cried like a baby in happiness.

I don't know and I will never know since it's a fanon ship.

Uurgh.

Anyway, years passed and as I mention before I read a lot of analysis and so on.

What shocked me most was that Byrke originally planned to have Zuko and Katara together but then changed their minds.

It did reassure me, how I wasn't imagining things between them, however reading then how the Souther Raider Episode changed a lot of times because Bryke found it too shippy, tells you a lot.

They wanted to make Kataang canon and better, than the natural flow Zutara had going on.

I want to repeat again, a HUG was MORE ROMANTIC and INTENSE than the crappy kiss Kataang shared.

Like what?!

How is this possible?

Well, yeah, if you don't force things and actually make people interact in a wholesome way it can be.

Zuko and Katara felt never forced because they just clicked. They were different, but the same in many things, that it was so natural to understand the other.

Aang and Katara felt always more like a mother-and-son duo, than real lovers.

And Maiko was kinda lame too.

Sorry.

I have this theory they just wanted to pair Zuko with a Fire Nation girl and be done with it.

I don't know why they chose Mai when it could have been worked with Ty Lee too, if it was only to pair Zuko with someone who doesn't understand him or doesn't want to try.

Excuse me, maybe Ty Lee would have been better since she seemed to care for her friends, in contrast to Mai who just tried her hardest to be goth and hate everything.

Sorry.

What I'm trying to say with this rant?

I think, as someone who had liked Aang and then felt more connected to Zuko and Katara, I can clearly say that if Katara had been a real girl and not a fictional character controlled by men, she would be together with Zuko.

Why would I/Katara choose someone who I need to mother, who is younger than me, who can't relate to me, if there is an older handsome boy who is kinda dorky and awkward and tries his best, understands my feelings and helps me to parent the Gaang?

Yeah, no, Katara would have smooched Zuko if she had been a real girl.

Now, who of you who knows me, can say, but Empress some of your OCs are older than their canon partner, how can you say that Kataang can't work if you do this in your stories?!

I want to make clear I don't have general a problem if the girl is older than the guy or taller.

It's just that their supposed age gap is when they are together makes it creepy.

Look at an example.

My parents have a three-year age gap.

Nothing much.

They are both in their 60, mid 60, so it's not weird.

They are in the same mature stage in life and understand the struggles of the other.

Now think if my parents meet at 12 and 15.

My dad is the older one.

Are you going to say with a straight face that it wouldn't have been creepy if my parents started to date at this age?

What does a teenager want with a pre-puperty child?

Also, they live in completely different worlds, how can they relate to each other?

The same goes for Katara and Aang, what does a 14-year-old want from a 12-year-old?

I bet if it was the other way around, we would all give Aang shit for preying on a 12-year-old girl.

The gender shouldn't decide if we find a couple creepy or not, even if it's so sadly.

What I want to say, Kataang would have worked better if let's say season 3 ended with no pairing, just all being friends and happy and then in the comics when they age, when Katara is 22 and Aang is 20 they got together.

They would have matured, been on the same level, probably dated other people and had experience.

It would have been okay.

Even if I still think Zutara is superior in anything.

Anyway, I hope I could explain myself and no hate to the canon ships and their shippers.

Ship and let ship.

I just wanted to explain my reason why I will be always a Zutara Shipper and don't reconsider the ending of Avatar as the end and Legend of Korra.

I will forever be Team-Season-Four-Where-Aang-Finds-Hiding-Airbenders-And-Falls-in-Love-With-A-Airbender Girl-His-Age-And-Zuko-And-Katara-Marry-Eachother-And-Katara-Becomes-The-Most-Beloved-And-Badass-Fire Lady-In-History!

And they find also Zuko mom ^^

So for now this is it for me.

If you want my take on an Aang and OC story, where Zutara will be canon, go to my other Tumblr profile empressofthesunwriter and read Yin and Yang.

Here is the link to the Index

I wish you all a nice day/night!

Till next time!

#avatar the last airbender #atla #zutara #zutarian #zuko #prince zuko #atla zuko #katara #atla katara #atla zutara #zuko x katara #katara x zuko #Youtube

[wilcze-kudly]

I really want to see your post about how Katara is forcefully matured by the fandom, please!

Ok, while I wasn't ready to make that post in earnest, and frankly never might be, here's some of my cursory thoughts on the topic. I'd gladly talk about it in detail more but also ✨️fear✨️

So, let's get the obvious out of the way. Katara is a 14 year old. A child, barely a teen. In fact, the entirety of the gaang is made up of children.

Now, I haven't been fully active in the atla fandom in quite some time, mostly lurking on the peripheries, because the fandom is a shitshow. One of the reasons being the fact that most fans cannot, for the life of them handle the Gaang's inherent childishness.

This isn't just a Katara problem. Other than her, Aang suffers the most for the egregious crime of being a 12 year old survivor of a genocide. Suki is, of course, mainly ignored. The interpretations of Toph can vary wildly, from her being horrifically matured to being dissmissed as a chaotic, rude child. Zuko and Sokka's immature moments are looked at more permissively, being an angsty boi™️ and a goofy goober respectively.

I do find it odd that Aang doesn't get the "boys will be boys" pass, but ok, we'll blame it on him being... bald? a nice boy? not concerned with his own masculinity?

As for Katara, her maturity is treated like... a given. She's the mom of the group, the proverbial love interest, the feminist icon, the badass fighter, the trailblazer filled with feminine rage. The trophy wife to Aang, the (Lore Olympus style) Persephone to Zuko's Hades.

And true, she is, or at least can be, a lot of these things.

However she is, first and foremost, a child. This fact is presented to us on a silver platter in the first episode, when her and Aang are penguin sledding.

Katara : I haven't done this since I was a kid!

Aang: You still are a kid!

Katara is a child forced to mature. Her circumstances forced her to try to fill her mother's place and to fight for those who couldn't do so themselves. The fandom brands her as a mom friend. Sees her purely as an icon of empowerment. Or worse, degrades her character to being a love interest.

(im talking about both sides of the kataang/zutara debate. I have my biases, but I'm sure there are kataangers who treat her like this as well. I simply have encountered very few of them.)

Her story, while yes, has many themes of female empowerment is in huge part, a tragedy. The tragedy of a young girl forced to grow up much too soon.

Sadly, this is rarely spoken about. It's not spoken about directly and therefore a lot of the fandom doesn't see this. (Or simply doesn't want to see it)

This is not to say that Katara's more mature aspects should be dismissed or buried. She displays a lot of maturity for her age, to the point of being able to go toe to toe both intellectually and physically with the (admittedly usually incompetent) adults of the show. Additionally, she evolves as a character through the durtation of the show.

But a huge chunk of her maturity being forced and therefore unhealthy is a key aspect of her character.

I think what upsets me the most is that while the critiquing the idea of Katara being treated as the mom of the group in fanon is becoming more and more common, the treatment of her as something akin to a YA protagonist is on the rise.

Both these interpretations are so insulting to the character of Katara, what is wrong with you people?

I'm currently rewatching atla with a focus on Katara as a character (while also trying to give zutara a chance I am doing my best guys) and her childishness is an integral part of her. It's sad to see her treated as an adult by the fandom. And honestly unsettling, especially with how much of like a child she acts.

I wanna finish my rewatch before I give my full ramble on the topic. I also wanna look more into the many different opinions people in the atla fandom have on Katara's treatment by the show. Though even trying to skim the surfce was like injecting lemon juice directly into my tear ducts. Also I really, really don't wanna get sent death threats again.

I want to give the topic of Katara my full attention. However I don't think I'll ever make this post, actually. The atla fandom is a rabid horrid pack of creatures and I'm not sure if I wanna engage with all that.The post would probably bash a lot of things considered key arguments for Zutara, since, looking at Zutara through a child's doesn't exactly scream 'romance' and do I really want that on my blog?

Katara's role as a child isn't valued as much as her role as a woman and I just don't want to deal with people calling me mean names for talking about a little girl being traumatised.

I'd be glad to have a discussion but I made this blog mainly to have fun and enjoy a piece of media I like. I met some truly amazing people whom I can have really great discussions with, even if we don't agree. I don't want to jeopardise that by being a pretentious dick on a soapbox.

Call this and the last few posts I made on Katara me testing the waters.

#am i still choosing violence and gonna regret this later #probably #pro katara #<this hashtag is ridiculous btw. we are forcefully climbing the mountain of moral highground huh #katara #atla #avatar: the last airbender #the last airbender #avatar the last airbender #avatar #zuko #toph #aang #sokka #suki #pro aang

[ultfreakme]

Nah Zutara is def happening. Two of the writers (Omashu and Into the Dark) are Zutara shippers and liking Zutara content all the time esp about Kiawentiio and Dallas. The Netflix accounts are pushing Zutara like crazy. Albert Kim is an enemies to lovers enthusiast and said that the original endgame ships are up in the air.

I am trying so very hard to be objective about this and so I am going to tell you what I'm seeing in the nicest way possible but I'm really sorry if I can't:

I've checked the official Netflix account, I follow it on twitter, nothing afaik. The closest I found was picture sets but they did it for Dallas and Gordon, Dallas and Ian, Elizabeth Yu and Kiawentiio too, and obviously Gordon and Kiawentiio, all the duos. There's a video clip of Kiawentiio throwing out a question card about if Katara likes Zuko and their first immediate reaction is laughing (and not in a way that's confirming it- like Dallas was about to clap and Ian gave a thumbs-up, not encouraging and they conclude it with saying a lukewarm 'no kinda well' likely because it's spoilers for season 3).

Kiawentiio right after an interviewer mentioned Zutara, she said and I quote ; "What Avatar are you watching?"

Albert Kim on Kataang:

It's being delayed to S2 because the age difference looks way too obvious in live action. It's still happening, just later when the actors look closer in age. They heavily hint towards future Kataang by comparing Aang and Katara to Tui and La on-screen (Yue saying the ocean will forever search for its counterpart while panning between Aang and Katara whos is reaching out for him, and Sokka and Yue where Sokka's begging Yue to stay- it's very on-the nose).

The OG show also had creatives who like Zutara, they inserted bait for it in the chibi shorts but nothing came of it in any canon and everything is steadfastly for Kataang. Heck, currently the cast are pushing Zukka all the time, doesn't mean it's going to be canon(Dallas Liu and Ian Ousley saying "hey ship our characters!" word-for-word does not equal Zuko and Sokka are going to date for real in the show).

It's disappointing that fanon ships aren't canon, but that's just what you sign up for when shipping fanon. You are not going to to get what you want, neither am I.

Kataang is the heart of the show, nothing will take that away and I think it's best to just, make peace with that instead of looking too hard into behind-the-scenes and cast stuff hoping THIS is when it's going to happen(I play along with the Zukka bait because it's funny, not because I think it's going to be real).

Also, writers liking Zutara content? Fine, do you, have a blast! It DOES get weird when they're sincerely promoting Dallas and Kiawentiio as an item though because they met when she was like 15 and he was 19/20, and now she's 17 while he's 22 now. She's a child, he's an adult pretty much their entire work relationship. That's really freaking weird. EDIT: Dallas and Ian, who are the actual adults in the cast have been actively redirecting all ship-related conversations towards themselves and their characters because they CAN handle whatever flame wars erupt from that, meanwhile Gordon and Kiawentiio are children so they shouldn't even be in the discussion as actors when it comes to the fictional ships.

#natla #atla la #riki asks #kataang #atla netflix #netflix atla

[lying-on-floors]

How does Zutara compare to Kataang? I do not care if you ship Zutara, go ahead, but, like, c'mon??? Like, the ship between Avatar "why would I let go of Katara" Aang and Waterbending Master "well...what if we kissed" Katara is superior. I will not take criticism and I will not listen to anyone saying "but Zutara..." no, it's all white noise to me, and before you say "just don't interact with Zutara," blah blah blah, I don't. I have the tags blocked on Tumblr and I avoid it everywhere else. I just think Kataang is a really good ship, and it's really cute and obvious throughout the show that the two love each other and even from thre beginning had little crushes on each other, I just love them. Also, Zuko never even had a chance and he didn't want a chance, canonically, that man was whipped for Mai. I'm not trying to police fanon, do what you want but I just never understood Zutara, it's like that one tik tok audio "Jimmy, gimmie a cheese with nothin'!" "Nuthin?"

I just love Kataang, okay.

#kataang #katara #aang #atla #aang x katara #avatar the last airbender #anti zutara

[survivalove]

Kinda random, but what made me really start shipping Kataang was how determined Aang was to get Katara's necklace back from Zuko, especially when we know how important said necklace is for her both as part of her family and part of her culture. And the thing is, Aang is always doing nice things for Katara without expecting any reward, like offering to fly her to the North Pole and refusing to train under sexist Pakku. Things that made me go from "this is a cute ship with good development" to "this is my OTP."💙🧡

So true, anon that’s a great scene!! Hmm I don’t know what made me ship it cuz I was 5 when I watched it for the first time so I really didn’t care about ships. But as I got older I started watching the show for Katara and she kept touching him and asking him how she looked dhdjfj it was beyond obvious TO ME (bass amplified).

That and every time she cried over him. It just felt really intense I’d be like why are you crying queen 😫😫😫 she’s so extra I can’t.

But I think a singular scene that really made me ship them was in The Serpent’s Pass when he said she made him believe in hope and she cried. When I think about it, Aang’s opinion seems to mean a lot to Katara and I think he notices that and makes sure to praise her so she won’t doubt herself. I liked seeing the fmc be praised and loved by the boy she liked without having to grovel and look pathetic, you know?

That reminds me of a meta I read the other day about how Sokka (yes I have to mention sokka or katara when I talk about the other 🤪) doesn’t really take compliments and I think Katara is also like that in a less extreme way.

Like when she tried to discredit herself when she revived him with the spirit water and Aang was like hello you literally saved my life??? dhdjdj I don’t care what delusional fanon shippers have to say, Aang compliments and appreciates Katara more than anyone, and that’s my fave part of their dynamic.

Anyways yes I agree with you. Aang always does what Katara wants simply because he wants to and she wants to. They don’t really force the other to agree with them either, even tho they both clearly care a lot for each other’s opinions. I think the show does a great job of setting the foundation for their romantic relationship this way through all these platonic moments.

Back to my fave scene in the Serpent’s Pass, I especially like how that scene shows Aang letting go of one of his beliefs for Katara which is linked to bigger moment of him refusing to let go of her to master the avatar state in the Guru, and eventually finding a whole new way to end the war while still staying true to himself. I don’t wanna say Aang and Katara getting together is integral to his arc or her arc, but I do think they link it in this way on purpose, and it’s why a lot of people that claim “Aang never changed” often don’t ship Kataang and the same for people that hate Katara and call her annoying then say they didn’t understand the ship. Like clearly my guy.

Anyway, to sum up this ramble 🤭 this is why I love the Serpent’s Pass scene and think it’s very underrated among kataang fans. I’m curious to know what kataang scene made oomfs ship too? I loved this ask and thank you for sharing that with me anon xx

#atla #katara #aang #kataang #anti zutara #antizutara #kataangtag #my asks #pro kataang

[vicontheinternet]

See one thing abt me is im a atla & zuko multi shipper my ships aren’t limited to zutara and fanon ones. I ship zuko with katara, sokka, jet, sokka with toph, toph with aang. Nobody’s safe if there is a fanfic out there imma ship it. Canon ships aren’t safe either cuz I ship kataang and zukomai

#i love being a multishipper #avatar the last airbender #atla #zuko/sokka/suki #zutara #zukko #kataang #if there's a fanfic good enough ill ship it #katara x haru #actually I don’t really ship zuko and aang idk why I put that up there😂😂

[longing-for-rain]

I know you said no bait asks, and I promise this isn't, I'm genuinely curious to hear an opinion from a Zutara shipper who seems pretty rational. (I am not a kataang fan either by the way so I'm not trying to argue that or anything.). Do you believe that Zutara is a feminist relationship in comparison to Kataang? And what are your reasons for being so strongly invested in Zutara?

Hi, thanks for the ask. I’ll do my best to explain my feelings on this, but to summarize, I think there are two questions here that aren’t inherently related: a) is Zutara feminist and b) why do I like it so much. I know this might surprise you, but even though Zutara is my OTP, I don’t consider it inherently feminist. Let me explain though because that doesn’t mean it’s a bad ship at all.

Obviously, I really like the characters together. However, I won’t go ahead and say it’s the “feminist” choice over kataang, because personally I think that discussing whether a female character has a feminist narrative should not center around which man she ends up with. The primary focus should be on her narrative independently. And if she doesn’t have an independent narrative, well…that’s not feminist at all.

But I’ll answer in more detail below because I think this is an interesting distinction.

a) Is Zutara feminist over Kataang?

Like I said above…no, not inherently. I think what this question is getting at is which relationship gives Katara as a character a feminist narrative, which is a tricky question. Only one of these ships is canon, so we only know how one relationship would have played out in the eyes of the creators. Everything else is up to the interpretation of fans.

First things first, I absolutely do not think kataang, as portrayed in canon, adds to Katara’s independent narrative as a character, and certainly doesn’t contribute to any potential feminist narrative of her character. There are many instances of Katara being damseled and/or generally reduced in complexity whenever she’s placed in a “romantic” situation involving Aang. Despite Katara also being a main character, the “crush” is portrayed entirely through Aang’s POV. And post canon, Katara ends up being relegated to the role of a healer who stays home at the South Pole (this is why I could never get invested in LoK). Which, if you paid attention to her character at all, was something she explicitly stated she didn’t want to be and fought to escape. Ending her story that way reversed any “feminist” narrative set up in ATLA. So no, this is not a narrative that centers Katara and her ambitions at all.

Now onto fanon content.

The beauty of fanon is that it’s completely up to interpretation. Fans can give the characters whichever narratives they want. This goes for both Zutara and kataang. Just because your ship is canon doesn’t mean you have to adhere to canon; many canon shippers write “fix it” type content or otherwise make changes to the canon relationship to make it more appealing to them. I’m sure there are kataang shippers who rewrite their canon relationship to give Katara a feminist narrative, but to be honest the ship just doesn’t appeal to me at all so I haven’t seen those, but I’m not saying they don’t exist.

Now, Zutara. Even though there are definitely some hints in the series, there was nothing explicitly romantic between these characters in canon. So, fans are free to interpret how a relationship between Zuko and Katara would play out, and therefore Katara’s narrative within that relationship. Some people do make a strong effort to give Katara a feminist story, and in my experience, this is often a direct response to canon. But on the other side of the coin, some people absolutely…do not. It’s a big ship with lots of content. Some of it gives Katara’s character a feminist narrative, some of it…does the exact opposite of that. I think anyone familiar with the ship is probably well aware of some of the unsavory tropes associated with it so I won’t get into that.

But anyways, for any ship, there is a variety of content featuring Katara. Sometimes she’s a great warrior, sometimes she plays an important political role, and sometimes she’s just treated like a slave. Sometimes she has her own wants and ambitions and sometimes her story revolves entirely around whichever male character the author is thirsty for. Sometimes she’s treated as a complex human being and sometimes she just exists to be a fetish. Which again, goes for literally any ship and character you can think of.

So when asking yourself if Katara is given a feminist narrative, asking which man she’s paired with is asking the wrong question. Instead the focus should be on Katara herself and what the message of the story says about her.

b) Why do you like Zutara?

Although you can probably tell from the above, I do consider myself a feminist and enjoy analyzing media from that perspective. But honestly, that has little to do with why I like this relationship so much.

Sorry if this answer is boring, but I just…like them. Everyone has different tastes. For me, I was immediately drawn to them watching the show as a kid, because I’m a sucker for that sort of hurt/comfort dynamic they had going on in books 2-3. Growing up and taking a closer look, I also found that I see Zuko and Katara as having a lot of similar values and personality traits that I feel would make them compatible in a relationship. Also, there’s the fact that I just really like Katara and Zuko as individual characters so I like the fact that Zutara allows me to explore both characters by themselves, as well as how they interact together.

But if I’m being real, the final Agni Kai scene is what sold me. The emotional intensity of that scene just had me hooked for life. It’s really not much deeper than that, but yes, I’m extremely obsessed and emotionally invested in this ship.

And yes, I do write a lot of Zutara fic and do my best to give Katara independent goals and ambitions and agency as a character. I do my best to write her in a way that portrays a feminist narrative because I personally find that important. But that’s something I could apply to any ship. I don’t think it’s inherently feminist to ship Zutara, because like I said earlier, it completely depends on the individual fans and how they interpret it. I like interpreting it in a way that gives Katara individual power and goals, but that’s just me. Not everyone writes Zutara the same way.

Hope that answers your question ❄️

#katara #zutara #fandom salt #ish #pro zutara #kataang critical #well more like canon critical #ask #anon #analysis #atla #feminism

[zvtara-was-never-canon]

So, sokkastyles makes this post about people who criticize Zuko for “I’ll save you from the pirates” act like he didn’t changed and if his redemption arc was non-existent or something. Which is somewhat valid, some people act like Zuko didn’t change and he did grow as person for the most part.

I pointed out “Most people don't pretend Zuko never changed. 'Cause he did. It's just annoying when people romanticize Zuko tying Katara to a tree and stuff when it isn't romantic. It's like romanizing Aang kissing Katara in EIP, it isn't romantic, he kissed her without consent”.

Then sokkastyles said this:

no, it is not like that. A cartoon villain tying the hero to a tree is not like kissing someone without their consent. People romanticizing it is fine, actually. What's not fine is for you to compare what in canon is a nonsexual act to Aang violating Katara's consent, and then tell zutara shippers they are

"annoying" for doing something you don't like that's totally harmless. Go away. You are annoying.

Then after some brief discourse they blocked me and posted this https://www.tumblr.com/sokkastyles/747582627682336768/tying-someone-to-a-tree-is-just-as-bad-as-kissing?source=share

Maybe, just maybe I’m overreacting, but grabbing someone by the hand and tying them up is pretty serious offense that could happen, and is just as bad if not worse than kissing someone briefly without consent. But that’s just me, what do you think?

It really is comparing apples to oranges - but not in the way that idiot assumes.

The Ember Island kiss was "non-consensual" in the sense of "Aang didn't verbally ask to kiss her first" (which is common and normal to some degree no matter how much zutarians lie that "Well, EVERYONE asks first", especially considering they had consensually kissed twice before) but not in the sense of "Katara very explicitly rejected his advances and Aang FORCED himself on her."

She asked for time to think, he jumped the gun, she got mad, he realized it was a bad move and felt awful.

Meanwhile, the zutara tree scene is literally Zuko holding Katara hostage, taunting and threatening her. It's not sexual, but it is hostile - and zutara as a ship only exists because of people MAKING that scene sexual and writting fics of Zuko full on raping Katara. THAT is the base of the zutara ship, no matter how much they deny it. The pirate scene, in zutara fanon, has always been "What if Zuko raped Katara and that made her like him?" That has been the consistent fanon zutara spin on that scene.

Now, zutara fans would tell you "But it's fine to do something like that as long as you know it'd be abhorrent in real life. Fictional characters are not people that are truly able to consent to literally anything, good or bad, that happens to them in a story" - and let me be clear here, they're right. Katara and Zuko are not real. The victim, the criminal and the crime itself aren't real. Claiming "liking zutara is supporting rape" because of those fics would be like saying liking Avatar is the same as supporting the use of child soldiers in a war, or that the writers commited real child abuse against a fictional 13-year-old when they created Zuko's backstory.

But, of course, they can't just end it at the reasonable part. Them enjoying non-con subtext/fanon for their ship is fine because it's not real - but one poorly timed kiss means Aang is the devil and that anyone that likes Kataang is a raging misogynist and RAPE apologist, even though zutarians are the ones constantly going for rape for THEIR ship.

You see why no one takes these people seriously?

#anti zutara #pro kataang #pro aang

[leantailean]

I really love Toko, but i feel like its often constrained, largely due to the age gap. Like stories will often either be set in post-canon, or the characters will be aged up. Do you feel like that holds true and if yes do you feel like there's a dynamic that i'm missing. And post-canon is fun to explore, but i feel like the most interesting story telling is generally set while the war is ongoing. Conversely i feel like aging up Zuko would be fairly disruptive to his journey. Not that i think those are bad things, i'm really liking Third Time's the Charm that plays with the latter, and arranged marriage which to feels like a very natural trope for them, and obviously i love your art. They say for a reason that constraints inspire creativity. I'm just curious about your thoughts about that.

Hi! Thanks for the ask and sorry for the late reply (sickness prevented me from replying)

I have a lot to say about this, so let’s begin (it’s a loooooong answer).

Age gap is the most common argument against toko I’ve heard. And, to be honest, I find it really strange. You see, Aang and Zuko have the same age gap, and almost the same have Sokka and Toph, and nevertheless Tokka and Zukaang are quite widespread and supported ships, and no one cares for the age gap. That’s why I don’t really see why people believe that age gap as an issue in Toko.

And this argument sounds strange also because If relationship, even romantic one that are originates from friendship are starting to built it doesn’t mean they immediately become sexual. Kataang is canon and beautiful, but in reality several years should pass for them before they step into that kind of relationship. I’m even uncomfortable to think about Maiko having sexual activity in the canon, when they both are around 16.

Besides, it is difficult to imagine Zuko anything but aro/ace to me.

 Toko's relationship originates from similar life experiences and mutual support for each other. This is not a love at first sight, but a gradually developing "friends-lovers" relationship. Which, by the way, completely similar with other canonical pairs, such as kataang.

Also I think that this argument originates from extremely wrong, primitive fanon interpretation of Zuko and Toph. Usually Zuko is depicted super mature and super experienced dude (all that dadko bullshit, omg), and they prefer to see Toph as some tomboy-ish brat (here in Russia people call such girls “the guy from the next yard”), rude, not serious and childish. Nothing can be farer from the truth.

In fact, Zuko is emotionally underdeveloped, traumatised and rather infantile due to the abuse he experienced. He Is a teenager with serious anger issues and bad social skills.

Toph is, otherwise, one of the most mature gaang members. She is able to understand and listen to other people , and she never demand anything back (“Yes, thank you Toph”. Indeed it woul be very nice of Sokka and Suki to thank her for saving their lives). Despite her guarding her boundaries carefully she is always open to other people and she is in good contact with her own emotions (which is what Zuko lacks). So in their relationship, at least that the very beginning Toph would be the most mature side (although it’s fair for every possible Zuko’s partner, such as Maiko, Zukka or Zukaang).

 So I don’t think that Toko is having any problems in that sense.

On the one hand, I agree that it’s the most interesting when the relationship somehow develops during canonical events, and not in the post-canon. But in this case, this applies to absolutely any couples, except of maiko, kataang and sukka, since they are the only ones developing during the war. Any possible other relationships, such as Tokka, or Zukka, or Zukaang, can exist only in  post-canon if canonical couples break up for some reason. Again, Toko is no exception in this case.

Zuko and Toph's relationship (doesn’t matter friendly or romantic) did not get the development  they deserve in the third season. In fact, their relationship was just thrown under the bus because of the sloppy writing of the entire third season (to give Zuko one episode with each member of gaang  just to check the box, like "mission accomplished" and give almost not developing of his relationship with each of them outside of these episodes. And Toph was robbed even of this). But despite this, toko still has more then any other fanon ships (although “Boiling Rock” is definitely a very Zukka episode). We see that Toph was the first one who believed Zuko, and not just believed - she actively defended him in front of the others and made an attempt to have a chat with him herself. It is important: the fact that Zuko's relationship with Toph is radically different from any other ones with the rest of the gaang member, since she was not with them when Zuko actively hunted the Avatar, and their first close interaction was after his redemption, when he became the best version of himself. Toph has no personal negative experience with him, and Zuko does not  feel guilty towards her, and with her he doesn’t need to make up for anything, and this is very important.

Strangely enough, but, one of the most Toko moments of the show is the moment in which Zuko and Toph do not interact personally: the meeting of Iroh and Toph. She is also the first from gaang who met and even, one might say, became friends with Iroh. Iroh, who has always been Zuko's father figure is talking to Toph about real Zuko. Not about the imperialist prince cruelly pursuing the last hope of the world - the way Sokka, Katara and Aang knew him - but about just a boy only Iroh, his closes person, knew. In addition, Iroh, who knows and loves Zuko, says how much he and Toph have in common (Iroh is the first and main Toko shipper, and I will die on this hill). Narratively and dramatically, this is an amazing moment, and I will fight with anyone who says that Toko has little canonical content: any other Zuko ships can only dream about such a moment.

It is also interesting that it is with Toph that Zuko has the most sincere conversation about his guilt towards his uncle. He talked about it with Sokka and with Katara, but it was Toph who was able to tell him the right words that really comforted him and make him smile (seriously, this is the best smile Zuko has ever seen, and it happens during his conversation with Toph!)

We see that they feel extremely comfortable and open with each other, even though they barely know each other.

Toph is the only girl in the canon made Zuko to blush, just a fact. And Toph, in her turn, openly talks to Zuko her feelings for him (I'm not saying that her feelings were already romantic at that time ). "This is how I show affection" is just the best moment.

We can talk about many other canonical points that are important for toko: the similarity of characters and life experience - both Zuko and Toph are from the upper class, both grew up in abusive families and both know what it is to feel unloved by their own parents. The Blue Spirit/Blind Bandit is one of the most interesting and direct parallels of Toph and Zuko - an alter ego that they needes to get away from theirs social roles (a prince and a young lady from an aristocratic families). This is the same direct parallel as the canonical pair has: The Painted Lady/Kuzon. Just as Aang and Katara need alter egos to help others people which is the core of their characters and unites them,Toph and Zuko need alter ego in order to satisfy their own desire for freedom, which they cannot satisfy in any other way.

They are both disabled, forced to deal with the fact that people judge them by their disability and appearance, forced to prove every day what they are more than their disability. Again: neither Zuko nor Toph share such an experience with anyone else, only with each other.

So canonically, toko has a lot of support - certainly no less than any other fanon ship.

After all, they look amazing together.

Also, I just love the moment with kissing doves. Seriously, ATLA rarely show us such a perspective, why they needed to place such a scene in the same shot with Toph and Zuko as if it were foreshadowing their future relationship? God, I love it!

I really like to explore the post-canon, especially since  I don’t consider comics and LOK to be canon, although it doesn't even matter - nothing in them contradicts the idea that Toph and Zuko could be together at least at some point in their lives.

To explore  alternative universes for toko, such as the arranged marriage plot, is also a very interesting, and it would be great to talk about it another time.

Thank you for the question, I think my thoughts turned out to be a little messy, but I hope it could be interesting to you.

________

Let's talk about TOKO!

#zuko #toph #toko #avatar the last airbender #kataang #i think? #atla #atla fandom discourse #long post #zutoph #ask #we need to talk about toko