my problem with the love square
Adrien has multiple times said 'Marinette is just a friend'. So why does everyone keep saying 'just a friend my ass'?. I'll say it, if the roles were reversed, Adrien would be labeled as obsessive and creepy for constantly trying to get together with Marinette after she's said that they are just friends.
Speaking of, Marinette's behavior is borderline stalkerish. Does everyone forget when she huffed his pillow? Or when she went and stole his PRIVATE PROPERTY because 'she left an embarrassing message'. THATS NOT OKAY!
She has his schedule, pictures of him everywhere, and tracks his photo shoots to see him. Adrienette is just gross.
Adrien slander ahead (technically Chat Noir) because he's not just an 'uwu cinnamon roll'.
Ladybug told him multiple times that she does not want to be with him. Yet he continues to harass her and hit on her. THIS IS ALSO NOT OKAY.
When someone says no, it means no. That does not mean 'oh not right now, try again later.'
We've already seen what happens when the superheros let feelings get in the way (Oblivio anyone?)
Chatnoir let himself throw a fight because he was mad at Ladybug for not returning his feelings.
I'm not saying Ladybug isn't an angel in all of this either. She flirts back and returns silly nicknames. Giving Chatnoir the idea that she does return his feelings. She is leading him on only to tell him that she doesn't want to be with him.
While I can understand why Chat Noir keeps flirting with Ladybug, it doesn't make his behavior ok.
They think the other has no flaws. They both have on rose colored glasses when it comes to the other and they can see no red flags.
This is also somewhat of a power imbalance on Ladybugs part. She knows about Adrien's infatuation with Ladybug. She is Paris' superhero. She is idolized and held on such a pedestal that no matter who Ladybug chooses to date, as long as it's a civilian she would have power over them.
To Adrien - Ladybug is a perfect person who could do no wrong and is the best hero ever
To Ladybug - Adrien is this perfect person that has never done anything wrong and is just the best.
That is not how relationships should work. It would fall apart as soon as they realized that the other has flaws.
Weredad. Anybody remember Weredad 😐.
Canonically ChatNoir does not like Marinette. They've interacted like... 3 times?
Also Ladybug does not like Chat Noir, so why would her civilian form be any different.
Honestly don't have much to say on this since there's so little to comment on because they've INTERACTED LIKE THREE TIMES.
Thomas Astruc, if you are going to make the love square canon, then stop making your character's relationships problematic. Stop marketing toxic traits to your child audience. I have never understood why this show is okay with showing stalker behavior and harasment as ok. Do better.
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It’s the way romanticizing being chronically/terminally ill is so normal in writing, both in novels, shows, movies and fandom, for me, folks
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thank you so much for calling out fellow white shippers for their racism. as a southeast asian, it’s the bare minimum, yet so many white bnf blogs have stayed quiet. there’s this fear, by some white fans, of speaking over bipoc voices which definitely happens. however, if white fans are for being in solidarity with bipoc, you must call out the behavior of fellow white shippers that bipoc have deemed problematic and yes, it includes your friends. no one is going to cancel you, we just want you to improve your behavior so other shippers feel safer. i also observe that some white shippers are hiding behind only a few poc that they will only agree with, not acknowledging the valid points that the other argument has made. they also will block blogs run by bipoc bc they rightfully criticized their behavior. i also don’t want ppl to think this is just fandom drama bc this is really a discussion about racism, from the white shippers’ treatment towards shippers of color to the way zuko and katara are portrayed in fanfiction. if you feel personally attacked, i’m asking that you take the time off from online to reevaluate yourself and ask what behaviors am i perpetuating that makes fellow shippers uncomfortable? why do i feel attacked? thank you again for your call out post bc so many poc like me have been disappointed by the silence of so many white bnfs.
I appreciate you thanking me. I did it because it was the right thing to do. I wasn’t going to say anything at first because, again, I didn’t feel like I could add anything to this conversation about fandom racism, but then I saw someone (I’m on mobile, I can’t look up the post, sorry) saying they were leaving the Zutara fandom because of a slur used by (presumably) that anon and they were rightfully calling out White people for staying too quiet about this. So I knew I had to make that post.
I’m so sorry people (you or others, I’m not quite sure) have been silenced on this issue. People have every right to talk about the racism they’ve suffered from. And yet they’ve gone unheard by people who didn’t want to grow. I know it doesn’t mean much, but I’m sorry. The thing about conversations is that there’s many sides. Many opinions, many points of views. Unless it’s, idk, right-wing rhetoric for example, you should listen to all sides of a conversation. It’s only fair, especially about an issue as complex as racism.
I know this may feel like a tangent, but I studied History and Art History. One thing I learned is that there will always be something new to discover. Yes, many events or time periods are very well documented, but we’ll never understand them 100%. We’ll always find something new that will change our way of looking at things. New allegories on a painting, new languages on ancient scrolls, or new writings on the walls of temples. These all give us more insight into a given time period. Archaeologists consciously leave dig sites before they’re done because they know in the future, new technology will manage to dig deeper, to find better, and to cause even less damage in the process. The future is always full of possibilities - even about the past!
All of that said, what you learn in History is to keep an open mind. You learn to shut up and listen to multiple points of views. You learn to try and understand the multitudes of people who lived millenniae ago. And it’s a valuable skill you can apply to your every day life.
That’s what I’m trying to do.
(Btw. What does “White bnf blogs” mean? I’m unfamiliar with that term)
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marinette dupain-cheng salt ideas/prompts (credit me)
alya calls marinette out for being obsessive over adrien and her “my adrien” comment when watching adrien and lila.
adrien calling ladybug out for humiliating lila (yes lila is a liar but she didn’t deserve to be humiliated) and not sugar-coating the truth.
ladybug tries to explain herself but adrien says that there was no excuse for her to humiliate lila just because she lied
lila doesn’t forgive her when she apologizes and chat noir says that she shouldn’t have humiliated lila because she lied.
chat noir distances himself from ladybug and loses his feelings for her after he realizes how possessive she is of him
Chat Blanc AU
adrien catches ladybug huffing his pillow but days nothing about it because he is blinded by his admiration for ladybug but plagg tells him that that’s not okay
adrien finds out that ladybug is marinette
rest of chat blanc but marinette and adrien do not end up together
chat blanc lashes out at marinette in the future, saying that he loved her and wanted to give her his heart but marinette would have never loved him as chat noir if she hadn’t found out his identity
rest of the chat blanc but chat noir in the future tells marinette that he doesn’t feel attracted to her anymore due to how they treated each other
her parents call marinette out for lying about wanting to get in touch with her roots
marinette gets grounded but she tried to make an excuse for her actions
sabine and thomas tell marinette that there is no excuse for her actions and it’s not healthy to stalker/obsess over her crush
kagami learns about this and comforts marinette about her behavior and how if she cared about adrien, she would let him date who he wants to date and not pursue him when he’s in a relationship
adrien tells marinette that he appreciates marinette wanting to get closer but doesn’t want to be friends with her if she’s going to violate his privacy and personal space
ykw, just for spite and angst, marinette reveals her identity to say that she’s ladybug and the girl he’s been in love with this whole time
adrien still turns her down and says that she never accepted him for who he is and what she wants him to be
ykw, alya salt too; kagami calling alya out for allowing marinette to pursue her her weird obsession
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What do you think of Gamer 2.0 I think it a good episode specially the thought of akuma vs akuma format ^^ however some people complain about Chat saying his useless and lazy in this one..which confuse me since Chat Sacrifice himself in other for Ladybug to defeat the akuma and yet many*salters* say his being selfish for doing that and That Marinette is right that they should take it seriously instead of goofing off and not to rest even thought she clearly needs the break girl
Oooh I enjoyed Gamer 2.0! It was fun, and I loved Chat showing Ladybug how sometimes it can be useful to take breaks and try to make what you're doing fun, that just going full blast all the time can just lead to bigger mistakes.
Seriously, people thinking Chat was just being useless and lazy in that episode really can't grasp what the episode was saying.
Marinette taking things seriously isn't bad in and of itself, but it was just stressing her out to the point where she was shutting down and was unable to actually accomplish what she needed to. Chat's method, treating it as a game, as something to have fun with, while still doing everything in his power to win and keep people safe, kept him from having a breakdown and making mistakes that way, and served Ladybug well for that purpose.
Chat sacrificing himself so quickly, immediately, and with such little hesitation is concerning, but to say he's being selfish for doing that... no. Especially with his whole comment at the end.
Ladybug: Hey, Cat Noir, between being a superhero and everything else in your life, how do you manage to still have fun? Aren't you scared you'll eventually have to sacrifice everything you love for all of this?
Cat Noir: The times when I have the most fun, my favorite moments, are when I'm with you, M'lady. And I would give up everything for just that.
Seriously that is very concerning! He's very reliant on his times with Ladybug because he's not getting enough support or freedom in the rest of his life.
This kid is NOT OKAY and desperately needs a stronger, more reliable support network so that he doesn't have to just keep clinging to his time as Chat Noir and his partnership with Ladybug as his main source of support and his coping method when things go wrong in the rest of his life. But he tried to diversify in "Lies" and that just ended with Kagami being hurt and his friendship with her being severely damaged, so that might be hard.
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The Trouble With Lila
After Chloé was hinted to be going towards a redemption in Season 2, Lila came in and was implied to be the show’s new big bad and soon after Lila had her own fair share of people who want her to get a redemption as well. And I’m not one of those people…
My reasoning being that Lila was nothing more than a vestigial from Season 1 that was implicitly brought in to replace Chloé because she was the only other girl who was interested in Adrien that wasn’t brought to the forefront. Marinette is the protagonist, Chloé is the show’s anti-hero, and Kagami is Marinette’s love rival. So there wasn’t really much of a place for Lila in the grand scheme of things.
But then they decide to make her a villain because the writers forgot about her for a while, and brought her back in the Season 2 finale because the fans demanded her back hoping she would be a reverse Chloé of sorts.
And then when Season 3 rolled around people were ready to see her roll out as a villain, but when she finally came all the problems of being a vestigial began to show. Everyone else had to be painfully dumbed down into a moron to make her work and her role in the show does nothing to forward the plot and just serve to humiliate Marinette and Chloé even further. Which led to a fair few fans rebelling by creating “salt fics” containing Marinette and Chloé rebelling against her. Granted they do get an episode where they team up, but it’s instead against Kagami over Adrien because the writers love telling the fans to fuck off. Meanwhile this just escalated the situation on the fan’s side and they began to take the show too seriously and thus when they did what they did with Chloé, people began clinging to Lila in hopes that she would get the redemption that Chloé supposedly did not.
And now this leads me to my next point where all of Chloé’s indiscretions aren’t really bullying and don’t really go past mere tantrums, hence she was never a villain from the start. Not to mention most of the Season 1 victims brought it on themselves. Lila on the other hand has her actions taken seriously, and the irony is the writers do nothing to follow up on them. Thus Lila is a miserably failed attempt at a secondary villain all because the writers didn’t want to redeem Chloé too soon and because she was the only other girl who was after Adrien.
Which brings me back to how everyone was made into an idiot. Alya, Marinette’s supposed best friend was so easily fooled by her as if she had a reason to discredit Marinette, and since Alya’s always “right” given that the writers are too scared to make the black girl wrong, Marinette ends up being the one to take the fall. Not to mention that idiotic moment where Adrien tells her to take the high road. I’d get it if Adrien was trying to look out for his friend, but the way he did it came off as really condescending and manipulative and of course since Adrien is the guy who the writers and fangirls jerk off to 24/7, he’s not allowed to be wrong either.
So this leaves Marinette and Chloé to once more be the butt of her jokes because making Lila wrong would require making both Alya and Adrien wrong and since Marinette and Chloé are supposed to be the mistake makers they’ll never get called out for this. Meaning Lila having both of them on her side is the only reason that this crap even works in the first place. So Lila isn’t even a character on her own merit, she rides off the coattails of literally every other major character and is only useful when the plot demands it, and at the expense of the rest of the cast.
So Lila really doesn't need a redemption because the show has given us no indicators that she is ever going to get one and only seem interested in using her when the plot demands it.
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Like I swear if I see one more salty take about how somehow the absolute worst thing about Adrien's self destructive behavior is how much he doesn't seem to consider how upsetting that is for Ladybug to go through, I'm actually going to break a table.
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the fandom skews everything about Adrien's mental health from the perspective of how it affects Marinette and then has the audacity to get mad at people for not doing that, and that’s extremely fucked up actually.
But we’re not ready for that coversation yet, are we?
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lots of white zutarians are rly showing their entire asses lol...not surprised because well. white people. but it's amazing seeing people say "x is racist" and then seeing white people go "ok why are you making it about race" like. hm ok. i wish i could turn off the Racism Detector function in my brain as easily as you guys do lol
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The escalating scale of bad Mai takes
1. Mai wasn’t dismissing Zuko’s feelings, she was just putting him in his place and showing him that it wasn’t her job to baby him
2. Everything that went wrong in Maiko was Zuko’s fault, he had abusive tendencies towards her
3. Mai had a proper redemption arc
4. The only reason people dislike Mai is because they ship Zutara
5. Being critical of Mai is misogynistic
6. Mai and Toph are basically the same person and character
I have seen every one of those takes stated completely unironically and it gives me a headache every time lmao.
Fandom would be so much more livable if people would just admit they made up their own character and explanations for things that happened in canon and prefer to go with that than what's on the screen. Instead we get... all of this, with zero canon basis.
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Since someone brought up the "immaturity of thomas astruc" blog, anon wants to point out that even if it WERE true, even if Astruc WERE immature, that is still better than being unhinged, insane, or crazy like some people in the ML fandom. So if I were Astruc, here is what I would say to this person: "I'd rather be an immature child than be an unhinged lunatic who runs an entire blog devoted to screaming hatred at a creator for not writing his show my way. I'd rather be a child than be insane."
I get what you're getting at, Anon. As I've said before, there's a very distinct difference between Thomas Astruc being kind of an ass and the Chloé Defense Squad actively bullying and harassing people with concentrated campaigns. Like, an entire blog dedicated to cataloguing someone's "sins" so that they can use them to attack Astruc directly or attack his reputation is the very definition of cyberstalking. You can't be an entirely healthy individual if you think that's okay, that's literally breaking the law over a cartoon.
However, I think "I'd rather be childish than a criminal" would be a more effective counter here.
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I think someone should just blcock that anon and see who it is on the blocked tumblr feature and that way we can see the dumbass who keeps sending these ignorant anons
Not gonna lie, for a second I thought you were them hahaha.
Excellent! I didn't even know you could do that! If they ever come back, I'll try it out. Dunno if it's going to work, but who knows? I can't block them since I've already answered that ask, but it can definitely be useful in the future!
To anyone who receives a message from that anon in the future, which could be me too: fucking expose them.
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You live in a bubble if you think there is no racism against white people. You have no CLUE what some white people face in their daily lives. None.
You know what? I was wondering how long it would take for you to find my post and drop a message in my inbox. Didn’t even take a day! As if you were summoned or something lol.
I’m not saying white people don’t go through shit. I’m saying we don’t face racism. That’s it.
And you completely ignored my point about attacking others, so this conversation is pretty useless. Now, I don’t have time for you. If you come back to my inbox, I’ll just turn off anon.
Don’t let the door hit you on the way out! 👋
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NO ONE CALLED YOU A PREDATOR YOU WHITE DEVIL 😭
Yah they did lmao, I’ve been called a creep, pervert, pedo, etc. over anon, and people said it’s “disturbing how I talk about minors” (meaning fictional cartoon characters) and similar things in vague posts.
Also do me a favor and block me, I have absolutely zero tolerance for blind hatred on the basis of race
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Salters: “Miraculous has no character development!”
Me: *Watches season 1 Marinette in ‘Animan’ almost cry because she thought Alya told Nino about her feelings for Adrien.*
Me: *Watches season 2 Marinette in ‘Gigantitan’ laugh with the rest of the girls about her Adrien chasing adventures*
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Adrien stans: Adrien isn’t actually attracted to Marinette! He doesn’t actually think she’s sexually attractive, therefore, his sexual harassment of her is fine!!! Because he doesn’t actually think she’s hot! That means it’s okay for him to sexually harass her!!!
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deleting Twitter is free therapy✨
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Like, feminine male characters were not the point of that post. The point was people being sexist hypocrites about a fictional boy.
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ML crew said the audience doesn’t have object permanence and they were right bc stans will rant that the writers have forgotten about adrien if he doesn’t get a pity scene every two minutes
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the way you thirst for a cartoon because you know nobody cares about you in real life. your an ugly fat white bitch and we all know it
You know, I wasn’t going to dignify this with a response and just delete it like the other vulgar asks, but…
Thought you should know I have been suffering from an eating disorder for years. Just so you know.
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