#eruhini

[ettelenethelien]

Why don't the Valar count as Eruhini even though they arguably should?

The probable reason is that the term serves to distinguish between things belonging to the domains of the Ainur and beings they did not have a hand in making. The funnier answer is that as a certified Significantly Older Sibling™ I can vouch that the family very quickly puts up a distinction between you and "the children". Who are you then? *shrug*. But your little siblings are teens and far older than you were when this started and the phenomenon shows no sign of ending.

#I mean I *cannot* actually vouch this happens in every family #but it certainly happens in mine #// #my post #Tolkien #Silmarillion #silm #valar #ainur #eruhini

[aureentuluva70]

Ok but I absolutely ADORE THIS

#i honestly love the idea of the dwarves honoring yavanna #especially since the aule and yavanna chapter always rubbed me the wrong way #idk just the way it treats the creation of the dwarves-as something of a mistake and the ents existing purely because yavanna was pissed of #is just not cool with me. also the whole 'they wont be counted as eruhini until the literal END OF THE WORLD' thing. like cmon. #but the dwarves loving and honoring Yavanna in their own way? flippin HECK YEAH #ropweek2023 #rings of power #aule #yavanna #trop #tolkien #silmarillion

[the-elusive-soleil]

Some things that might have happened if the Valar had gone to war with Morgoth immediately after the Silmaril theft, and evacuated the Sindar, Avari, and very first Men to Aman to escape the continental destruction:

Nobody swears any Oaths. Feanor doesn't get the chance to, because the Valar go after Morgoth before he can.

He would have liked to go help with the war, but the Valar have made it clear that the Eruhini need to keep out from underfoot, and Ulmo is actually enforcing this one.

Feanor does contribute weapon designs in exchange for the promise of the Silmarils being returned to him ASAP.

(We have the sun and moon, I feel like I should say. The Valar made them when they needed light sources for the war and it was clear they weren't getting the Silmarils back all that soon.)

There's a lot of excitement when the new arrivals show up. Olwe is ecstatic to see his brother again - with a Maiarin wife and a daughter, too!

Thingol is upset about losing his realm and also grieving his friend FInwe, but cautiously intrigued to meet Finwe's family.

Feanor has become High King of the Noldor at least in name, but in practice what's developed is that Fingolfin and Maedhros and Caranthir and Turgon handle a lot of the day-to-day and Feanor is so busy crafting that he never noticed the shift. No one is super interested in telling him.

Thingol very nearly breaks it all open by accident, but they avoid a crisis just in time.

The Avari disappear into the outlands and forests and assimilate as little as possible.

Thingol and Melian start up a new city, but it's...not quite the same.

Luthien is restless. Her parents' new city might not have a girdle, but she feels fenced in anyway - partially with her parents not wanting her to stray too far in this strange new place, and partially because she's the one and only half-Maia and stunningly beautiful and everyone wants a piece of her, so to speak.

Funnily enough, certain of the Feanorians know exactly how those itchy feet feel, and her father doesn't hate them in this timeline.

She's not into hunting to kill things, really, but Celegorm teaches her this neat trick that sometimes you can just say you're 'going hunting' and head off to the woods to do whatever you want, like running just for the sake of it or dancing without anyone watching you, and no one will ask any questions.

She ends up spending a lot of time with him and the twins and Aredhel.

(Celegorm and Luthien eventually get married, because why not.)

(Melian gives her blessing on the condition that their firstborn son marries Nimloth, who goes along with it because she trusts Melian's foresight. Or, alternatively, they might have a daughter who marries Beren when he comes along; that'd be a fun twist.)

(The point is that Elrond and Elros eventually exist. They aren't in need of adoption, but they develop a surprising bond with their uncle Maglor.)

Almost forgot, the dwarves got brought over, too.

Caranthir does a lot of the negotiation with them, since his bluntness meshes best with their ways.

They and the Men keep having new generations be born and die, and it's...an adjustment for the elves.

Finrod, nonetheless, becomes great friends with a Man called Balan and his folk.

Caranthir encounters a Haladin woman named Haleth when she comes to court to arrange for greater independence for her people. He's in love at first sight. It takes her a little longer.

None of Caranthir's family understands why he'd choose to go through the eventual heartbreak of losing a spouse, but he ignores them all, and gets married anyway.

They have an astounding number of children. This is partially because they have better proximity and aren't in survival mode, partially because it takes them a sec to figure out how human conception works, and partially because Caranthir wants there to be as much Haleth in the world as possible before she's inevitably gone.

Hurin Thalion and Morwen have three lovely children. Nienor probably has a different name. Lalaith lives to an astoundingly old age, healthy as a horse.

Tuor and Idril, of course, get together. Turgon is a bit less enthusiastic about it this time, what with Tuor just being A Guy and not Ulmo's champion, but when would that ever stop Idril. Tuor does die eventually, but they have a good life till then.

Feanor ends up liking the Men and dwarves a lot more than anyone thought he would. He learns All The Languages, and loves to swap techniques with the dwarves and bounce off Men's ingenuity.

Also, the Sindar introduce a radical notion called marriage counseling, which is apparently something you invent if you're coping with Arda Marred instead of trying to maintain an assumption of perfection. They've also invented family therapy. Feanor and Nerdanel, and really the whole House of Finwe, benefit hugely from this.

Oh, and elf/dwarf relationships become hugely popular among the Noldor, because when your dwarf spouse dies you can literally go see them at Aule's house still as long as you're discreet about it, so no one bats an eye when Celebrimbor announces his engagement to the craftswoman Narvi some time down the line.

#silmarillion #alternate universe #feanor #house of feanor #house of finwe #halenthir #celebrimbor x narvi #also i'm not sure how this happened but #celegorm x luthien #mutual and everything #huh #fix-it

[warrioreowynofrohan]

1, 13 and 25 for the choose violence asks please!

the character everyone gets wrong

Let's see, I already did Maedhros, and and I did posts about most of the other Fëanoreans as well (but seriously, everyone does get Celegorm wrong, he's politically ambitious and dangerous, not dumb and feral).

I think much of fandom gets the Valar wrong. The thing that I always come back to about the Valar is that everything they do is about love for the Eruhini and wanting them to be happy and safe and well. They err (because the Eruhini are meant for more than just being happy and safe), but it's all coming from that place of love and care. They ask the Elves to come to Aman so that they're not exposed to the dangers of Middle-earth. (I think they don't stay in Middle-earth in part because they remember Almaren and the destruction of the lamps, which ruined continents.) They let the elves do basically what they want - they've got virtually no rules besides "don't threaten to kill people" and "don't kill people", both of which come up in response to situations they really never anticipated. The rescue of Maedhros by Thorondor and the foundation of Nargothrond and Gondolin shows that they are clearly willing to help the Noldor, even after the Kinslaying and the Doom.

The difficulty is, in part the nature of their power. The Valar are at the same time tremendously powerful, to the point where they cannot have a direct war with the forces of evil without it levelling continents, and much less powerful than we expect them to be. They can't stop the Kinslaying by snapping their fingers and pulling all the elves' weapons out of their hands; that's not an ability they have, and getting involved would mean personally killing large numbers of elves, something they are clearly unwilling to do. They're far from omniscient; they don't always know what's happening outside Valinor. So people get confused and aggravated by them, because they simultaneously have the powers of gods and lack the powers of comic book superheroes.

13. worst blorboficiation

Finrod!! I get so tired of seeing him portrayed as a ditz, as a flake, as naïve, as sleeps-with-everything. Finrod is probably both the most intelligent and the most intellectually curious character in The Silmarillion (come on, the longest scene we get with him an an extended philosophical debate!), as well as being the wisest and most thoughtful. He's the linchpin of diplomacy for all Beleriand and things fall apart without him. He's not naïve; he walks to his death knowing that's what he's doing (he's already foreseen that his oath to Barahir will destroy him and that Nargothrond will not survive).

I think where it comes from is the fact that he's kind, and there's a sort of assumption running through society that kindness and intelligence/awareness are opposed to each other; that someone who is ruthless must also be intelligent, and that someone who is kind must also be dumb. (I partly blame House and Sherlock.) Neither are true.

25. common fandom complaint that you're sick of hearing

"Yes but the Silmarils are the Fëanoreans' property!" When did tumblr of all places start believing in the absolute sanctity of property rights? No need to go all stand-your-ground/libertarian about it.

I don't care. I really don't. I think that Beren and Lúthien achieving the impossible feat of getting one out of Angband, at overwhelming personal cost and in the teeth of Fëanorean opposition, does give them a right to it, and I think the Fëanoreans cease to have any right to make any demands whatsoever of the people they attempted to rape and murder, or of those people's son. The Silmaril itself accepts Beren's claim, in despite of the Silmarils being hallowed against "mortal flesh", even as it later rejects the Fëanoreans'. Beren and Luthien suffer greatly in order to obtain the Silmaril, they are meant to have it, and the fact that it is part of their family line enables the salvation of Middle-earth. That's enough for me.

#tolkien #the silmarillion #valar #finrod #feanoreans #beren and luthien #ask game

[silmforrookies]

Chapter II. Valaquenta, or Wow, That's a Lot of Names

Alright, so where were we - ah yes, Eru showed the Ainur the vision of the World (Arda), and a lot of them decided Arda is cool so they came down and started shaping the world. Sounds about right.

Now, what exactly is Valaquenta? Basically, it's a chapter where Tolkien introduces us to the divine beings, not in "general", like in the last chapter, but more personally - we learn their names, what they are like, what are their domains, and that Melkor is a b-(CENSORED). Though we already knew that last bit.

Valaquenta can be divided into three sections:

Fanboying Over Valar

Fanboying Over Maiar

Melkor Is A Bastard And We Should Not Forget That

"Noldo", you might ask, "with all my due respect, who the hell are Valar and Maiar?"

Valar and Maiar are two kinds of Ainur - an Ainu is a Vala or a Maia depending on their power; Valar are the rulers, and Maiar are the servants. There are seven Vala-Lords and seven Valië-Queens; so fourteen if put them together and fifteen if you add Melkor - but Melkor is an idiot so he doesn't count. Their names are: Manwë, Ulmo, Aulë, Oromë, Namo (Mandos), Irmo (Lórien), and Tulkas; and Varda, Yavanna, Nienna, Estë, Vairë, Vána, and Nessa.

Well. Onto the main course! (if you've just heard someone sobbing in despair, yeah, that was me, sorry.) LETS LEARN ABOUT THE VALAR, KIDS! LETS RAISE OUR PRAYERS TO OUR LORD AND SAVIOUR MANWË SÚLIMO-

Manwë, also known as Manwë Súlimo, is the creator of skies and air and all that inhabits it. He's Eru's favourite. Eru's perfect son. Eru's golden child. He understands Eru like no one else does and often has private chats with him. When they only descended into Arda, he was second in might to Melkor, but, since Melkor is an idiot, he's deemed the strongest of the Valar. Manwë is married, and his wife's name is Varda.

Varda is elven favourite. Her surname is Elbereth, or Elentári, depending on which political party you will choose later in the years. She is Lady of Stars, and her domain is light. She and Manwë dwell together on the highest peak of Taniquetil (local holy mountain), and when they sit beside each other on their thrones, Varda hears all what's happening in Arda, and Manwë sees further than anyone else.

Oh, by the way! Melkor wanted to date Varda but she rejected him, because - you guessed it! - he is an idiot. So Melkor is scared shitless of her, as he should be.

Ulmo is the Vala of water, and he is positively Done. Manwë? Done. Melkor? Done. Eruhini? Do- oh wait, he loves those, actually.

Ulmo doesn't give a shit unless the world is literally falling apart. He doesn't wear "normal" bodies like the other Valar and appears in a form of giant warrior (borderline giant wave) which scares the Children of Ilùvatar which, in turn, makes Ulmo sad - because he loves them.

Ulmo reigns over all waters and often travels to Middle-Earth. Elves believe his voice and words can be heard in rivers and streams. He was best friends with Manwë, but we don't know much about the current state of affairs - only that Ulmo rarely visits land or other Valar.

Aulë is a craftsman. He is second in might to Ulmo, and created a lot in tandem with him and Manwë. He made metals and minerals, and he delights in all handiworks - from little trinkets to majestic buildings. He and Melkor are ✨narrative parralels✨. Both of them are driven by the will to create something new and original - but, while Melkor wastes his power on envy and hatred, Aulë doesn't think himself greater than the others, is quick to help and to be helped. Melkor absolutely hates his guts. He's been destroying Aulë's creations since the dawn of time. Aulë first have been repairing them, but then grew weary, tired of Melkor's temper tantrums.

Aulë is married to Yavanna, the Giver of Fruits, also called Kementári, Queen of Earth. She claims author rights to the animals and plants and is as powerful as Varda.

Next up are Feantúri-brothers, Námo Mandos and Irmo Lórien, named so for the places of their dwellings - and then, their respective spouses.

Námo, the Lord of Doom, knows time, or, as Galadriel said, "things that were, things that are, and things that yet may be". He suffers from a disease known as "I TOLD YOU SO! I TOLD YOU SO, BUT NOOOO, WHY WOULD WE LISTEN TO NÁMO, AKA THE DOOMSMAN, AKA THE ONE WHO KNOWS LITERALLY ALL THE SPOILERS?!" His name is Námo, but he is often called Mandos because his home is called Mandos, House of the Dead. He summons all the dead souls and makes sure they heal accordingly. He's married to Vairë the Weaver, who weaves the history of Arda into her tapestries.

Irmo Lórien is a Vala of dreams and rest. His respectable place of dwelling is Lórien - the fairest of places in Arda. He lives with his wife Estë, Valie of healing, who sleeps by day and walks by night. Lórien is a place where many find peace and refreshment - not just Elves, but Ainur too.

Similar to Estë, but more powerful than her, is Nienna. To shorten the story:

Nienna is Sadness and Grief, and she mourns every wound Melkor does to Arda. In fact, she started mourning long before the Arda even existed, in her Song. She spends a lot of time in Halls of Mandos, helping dead souls and mourning with them.

Then comes Tulkas the Valiant. Tulkas is. Well.

(live footage of tulkas viping the floor with melkor, years of the lamps, silmarillion)

He's super strong and is absolutely unhinged. Dude knows no fear. He has only one mission: to beat up Melkor. Yes, you guessed it, Melkor absolutely hates his guts. He is married to Nessa, Valie of... dancing? beauty? Nessa is a sister of Oromë - Vala of Hunting. Oromë loves forests and loves Middle-Earth; he would often visit it, and he would often beat Melkor's ass, too. Orome has a sister, Vaná, Valië of Youth.

So, there are fourteen Valar - but if you thought we're done, ohoho! you're in for a wild ride, my friend, for the Valar are divided into Aratar (kings and queens) and non-Aratar (everybody else). There are eight Aratar: Manwë, Varda, Ulmo, Aulë, Yavanna, Aulë, Nàmo, Nienna and Oromë. Melkor could've been up there, but he's an idiot, so. Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

(cries in dozen more of the Maiar)

Alright, kids. Buckle up, since the Maiar are beating up my ass and I have no patience left!

Ilmarë and Eönwë - chiefs of the Maiar in Valinor. Ilmarë is a handmaid of Varda and E��nwë is a Herald of Manwë.

Uinen and Ossë - Maiar of Ulmo. Ossë loves coasts and islands and delights in storms. Uinen is his wife, and she loves the deep waters. Ossë, chaotic bastard as he was, once almost joined Melkor and went unhinged, but, fortunately, Uinen brought him back to the light side with the ✨power of love✨. Ossë is still a tiny little bit unhinged and sometimes loves drowning ships for funsies, that's why sailors pray to Uinen to calm him down. Relationship goals, amirite.

Melian was a Maia who spent most of her life in Middle-Earth, married a major elven hottie, borned a daughter who was even a bigger hottie, and suffered from a disease known as "for god's sake please someone listen to a literal angel advising you", but we know nothing about that yet.

Ólorin, aka Gandalf, aka Mithrandir, aka The Guy You Definitely Know About!

AND NOW, FINALLY, LETS TALK ABOUT OUR LOCAL DEMONS! I'VE GOT FITEEN MINUTES UNTIL 15 H, CAN YOU TELL I'M SANE

Alright - so, of course, we've got our local Satan, Melkor, aka Morgoth, aka Bauglir, aka The Guy Who is Still A Bastard. He didn't have a particular domain - but he had part in powers of all the Ainur, and it was intended for him to help other Ainur excell even more at their crafts. Unfortunately, he spent all of his might to hate and envy, until he could do nothing else but imitate the creations of other Ainur. Still, there were many who followed him; most terrifying of them were Valaraukar, aka Balrogs - spirits of fire, demons of terror.

And of course, Sauron. What to say about Sauron?... Well, he's a bastard who looks up to Melkor. Mini-Boss. Mini-Morgoth. He does have cool fire-cat-werewolf aesthetic, though. If Melkor is chaos, Sauron is Order. If Melkor is brute force, Sauron is swift strategy. Sauron, though he's a Maia, is as terrifying as his Master, and it's better not to cross him.

Well, that was it! I've got two more minutes left until 15h - you'll get me next time, procrastination >:)

taglist: @none-ofthisnonsense (ask to be added!)

#silmarillion #tolkien #melkor #valar #silmforrookies #silm fic #14:59 FOLKS #valaquenta

[that-angry-noldo]

🌶 for Finrod?

(drop a 🌶️ and a character in my inbox and i'll share one of my spicy tolkien opinions!)

finrod is smart and cunning. he changes his facades as easily as he breathes. he's a skilled politician. he schemes and plays.

finrod is also bright and cheerfull. he's honest with his friends and family. he's optimistic, full of love for the world and for Eruhini (he's ready to die for that love).

this two sides of him can and do coexist, and it makes me sad when people claim he only posesses one of them (so if he's full of love, he's authomatically naive; if he's smart and cunning, he's cold and calculative - nothing in between).

thanks for the ask!!

#noldo answers

[valacirya]

Please feel free to ignore this/not publish it, I know anon asks are awkward that way - just wanted to rec clothonono’s fic “better a holy discord” on ao3 for Valar-centric fic that’s funny, sad, and never ever forgets that the exiles were murderers LOL. If you do read it, I’d love to hear your thoughts on it!!

It's one of my favorite Tolkien fics ever! It's hilarious, thought-provoking, and extremely well-written. I love how the Valar are portrayed as complicated, flawed, extremely powerful yet helpless beings who are, above all, good. How they argue and disagree with one another's approaches but still work towards a common goal. How they talk about the Eruhini and Arda like an experiment which, let's be honest, it was. How they learn something in the end about themselves and change. And the premise is so unique, I never thought about their non-interference that way i.e. that they ran the risk of entrapping themselves in the Doom. That is absolutely brilliant. 

I love the idea of having to say sorry and mean it, without expecting anything in return or any self-motive. It’s so simple yet so hard. And the part about Finrod was my absolute favorite; I never understood how the Arafinweans could bring themselves to carry on after the murder of their family, and use the stolen ships at that. Galadriel seems to be aware of the hypocrisy, because she abandons her dream of ruling a kingdom and spends the entire First Age learning from an Ainu, something she explicitly spoke against in Valinor. But I never understood Finrod’s cognitive dissonance, and this fic gives me the answer. It makes his death so tragic and yet narratively satisfying. 

I highly recommend everyone go read it here!

[marta-bee]

I want to read more of the Silm but, like, the Silm with the Eruhini I love. Or at least I want Yavanna and Aule bickering like an old married couple about dwarves. There’s chapters and chapters of geography and stodgy old wars and gods behaving badly still to get through, isn’t there?

At least there’s Tulkas. That’s not nothing.

(I know, I know; I’ll love it once I get back into it. But I do find myself yearning for the brothers ‘wë.)

#tolkien #the silmarillion

[crysdrawsthings]

My running theory about Tom Bombadil is that there are things in Arda that Eru just threw in for basically no reason at all, beyond endlessly confusing pretty much everyone starting from his Ainur children, to the last of puzzled Eruhini researchers trying to make sense of it.

While there are more or less none to be found.

You know, like easter eggs. I don't know, it makes sense to me at least.

#tolkien #silmarillion #the silmarillion #lord of the rings #the lord of the rings #tom bombadil #nameless things below moria #i mean even ungoliant maybe #eru just gleefully sprinkling arda with the most random of things #almost choking on popcorn when one of these easter eggs almost ate his eldest and very problematic son #as you can see i have rather odd perception of eru alright #crysandthings #my ramblings

[ceescedasticity]

Also the idea that the destruction of Númenor happened after the Valar, unwilling to take direct action against the Eruhini, laid aside their guardianship and asked Eru to step in--

"Dad the Men are really being a problem, we don't want to overstep but REALLY a problem, so do you think you could maybe-- Oh."

Or: The kids you have been babysitting have been nightmarish, and you've yelled a lot but they will not listen, and they're starting to scare you so you call their parents. Their parents ask you to step outside and send in a hit squad to kill them all.

Yep.

#tolkien #unsolicited fandom opinions

[ettelenethelien]

I am a little bit crazy about everything about Lúthien, because:

You're the daughter of the king of Fäery, more or less. Your mother is older than the world, and to you, metaphysics is something familial. people call you a half-maia and that's not exactly correct because you either are or aren't, but you're your own category of eruhini and that might be even stranger to think of. You have no idea how old you are; your people didn't count years back then.

There is so much power inside you sometimes, more than your body and soul can bear, so you let it out in dancing and flowers bloom under your feet. You leak power and leave trails of nimphredil as you walk.

Your mother talks with the sun and moon, and you smile at them in the sky. Once, Oromë used to ride in these parts and your mother would speak with him, and you too, sometimes. The world had no limits for you back then, and you could go alone from the shores of the sea to the lands beyond the mountains. You would drag Daeron with you on those journeys, but since then the lands have grown more dangerous. You could deal with the dangers you think.

You would be the key to Doriath, and to Nargothrond, if captured.

You feel every encroachment of the dark in your very soul. You run off to dance alone, and, for a while, the sickness passes. others don't seem to feel this so deeply or so overwhelmingly. You wonder what is beyond the world.

love meets you one day in the woods.

#my post #lúthien tinúviel #tolkien #Silmarillion #silm

[absynthe--minded]

If you are still open for prompts. How about 41 with Rog and Námo. Maybe a guest appearance from Vairë?

(Prompt me?)

41.

“I feel like I can’t breathe.”

“You’re dead,” a Voice answered him, and its weight was sheer and overwhelming, and would have driven him to his knees were it not for the incredible gentleness that seemed to surround him like the ghost of an embrace. “Breathing isn’t something you do without a body to breathe with.”

Rog shivered, and assessed himself - yes, he definitely seemed to be dead, in the sense that he felt quite different than he had when he was alive. And the lofty, dark Halls that he stood in were like nowhere in Gondolin. He looked up to see a shape all draped in black cloth hovering before him, both formless and in the shape of one of the Eruhini at once; it was close to his own size, and he raised an eyebrow.

“You’re the Doom-speaker?”

“I am,” the shape and its Voice answered, spreading what might have been arms or wings or sinuous, boneless limbs and gesturing at itself.

“You’re not what I expected.”

“Were you anticipating grandeur and high proclamation and gloomy intensity?”

“Well… yes, to put it bluntly.”

“I tend to take the form that will best suit the current conversation,” the shape - Námo - said, settling back on the empty air as if it were a chair. “You’re remarkably practical, Rog of the House of the Hammer of Wrath, and you’re sure of yourself - why would I cow and intimidate when a simple conversation works just as well?”

“I suppose you’re not wrong,” Rog replied. When he tried to sit on the air himself he found it relatively unsuccessful, and at last he gave up and folded his legs beneath him on the glossy floor of the Halls. “What did I do to earn such an honor as a personal conversation with the Doomsman of the Valar?”

“Oh, he talks to everyone who comes through here,” a second voice said, and he looked over to see a long red thread unraveling itself from one of the tapestries that hung high over what might have been his head. It coiled about itself, and more stitches sprouted from the air until he was looking at a reasonable facsimile of a nís with long flowing hair. “Eventually.”

“My lady Vairë,” he said, inclining his head respectfully. He felt as if she was smiling at him.

“You did well in your first life,” she informed him. “Your stay here will be brief, I think, and your recovery swift and complete.”

“And here we all thought you kept us locked up like prized jewels,” Rog said, mostly to himself. He was almost shocked - that was meant to be a thought, and not voiced aloud - and then it occurred to him that without a mouth, all his speech was thought-speak, even if he would have preferred otherwise.

“Hardly,” Námo said drily, echoes of his expected stature clinging to the word. “What you get out of this place is in part what you put into it, and the aid you receive is the aid you ask for. You need very little. Why would I keep you?”

Rog found he couldn’t argue with that logic, so he shrugged and went back to looking around the hall.

#replies #aronoiiel #ask meme #silmarillion #absynthe’s fanfiction

[incorrecttolkienquotes]

*the flamy boy* - the valar?

I love this fandom because my “unpopular opinion” is basically “I don’t think they’re actively malicious, and I think we can trust the text when it says they’re fundamentally benevolent and well-meaning”

I think the Valar’s flaw is that they’re not omnipotent and they have limited knowledge of the future. They’re put into a situation where they’re charged with the wellbeing of a bunch of created Eruhini+Dwarves, and they’re given limited guidance from their Maker, and they’re finding out through trial and error how to be good at being small-g gods. The fandom perception of them as stodgy/conservative/repressive/uncreative strikes me as shortsighted because they’re not any of those things they’re just basically flying blind with occasional help from Námo or Dad.

#Off Topic #ask meme

[arafkeel-kolohsaaht]

Closed || On The Winds

@hauntedsiriel

It was a temperate but blustery morning when Arafkeel strode out of the forest towards the western sea. Between him and the Sundering Ocean lay a vast flat plain of grass and late spring flowers running in all hues between violent purples through scarlet crimson and bright orange to stark and heavy yellows. The pale blue sky above was empty and endless stretching boundlessly to the sea and the horizon far ahead of him.

Winds played through his long hair so that even without his cloak, he had a train a meter and a half long behind him as he strode. The bright and vivid light of the sun shone onto his face, illuminating his three scars – one for each silmaril – and giving his eyes a jewel like quality and made them glimmer and sparkle like sapphires inset into the ivory of his skin.

But the winds out of the West spoke to Arafkeel, perceiving from afar one amongst the Eruhini who was on the shoreline. Much spoke the winds, after the fashion of elementals in a blustery and gossiping way – but he came to know as he walked that this was a she-elf and seemingly a high born Ñoldor. This meant relation by ties of blood to Fëanor who made the Silmarills.

[warrioreowynofrohan]

ooooh what is your Finrod Akallabeth fic about? :) if you want to answer, that is.

My idea for this one is a conversation between Finrod and Manwë after the Akallabêth - Finrod is intensely unhappy about it and quite possibly angrier than he has ever been before in his life. It starts out as an argument, and then turns out to be less of one, since Finrod is strongly of the opinion that The Valar Have Fucked Up and, as it transpires, Manwë is equally of that opinion and looking for an additional perspective. The general conclusions drawn (that the Valar have been much too focused on doing things for the Eruhini rather than doing things with them) are the ones that lead, in the long term, to the Istari project

I haven’t written it and may not ever, because it’s something of a self-indulgent character filibuster (Finrod’s analysis of the issues around Númenor, and of the Valar’s attitude towards the Eruhini generally, largely echo my own, though I think they are in-character for him).

I thought the two characters would be a good fit because 1) I think Finrod's manner of interacting with the Edain reflects, in many ways, how it would have been better for the Valar to have interacted with the Eruhini and 2) I see parallels between Nargothrond and Numenor. In both cases, people living in a beautiful and safe place reject the person or people who are responsible for them living in that place, under the influence of an outside agent, and in both cases that leads, directly or indirectly to their destruction, a destruction that is mourned in spite of the betrayal.

Since you’ve asked, I’ll indulge myself and post everything I’ve written on it (all of which is setup; I haven't written any of the conversation itself), since there will probably never be another occasion for doing so.

My eyes fail from weeping,

I am in torment within;

my heart is poured out on the ground

because my people are destroyed.

~ Lamentations 2:11

It is told that when the Host of Númenor set foot upon the Undying Lands that they might wrest unto themselves life eternal, they were buried in the fall of the mountains, and Númenor and its ships of war and all its people were whelmed beneath the waves.

And the grief of Yavanna at the death of the Trees was not greater than the grief of Finrod Edendil in that day.

“He hasn’t spoken to anyone in weeks. He hasn’t spoken civilly to anyone since it happened.” Amarië paced the room in worry. “And the things he did say...he would blame the Eldar, he would blame the Powers, I think he would blame even Eru rather than cast fault upon the traitors themselves, that betrayed the Land of Gift and sacrificed even their own kin to Morgoth. I know his love for them; I too loved them well in happier days when the white ships sailed to Rómenna, and Eldar and Edain held converse and fellowship together. But they had fallen far since those days, and would not be claimed. Is it not just to judge those who repay free gifts with such evil? But when I spoke so, he departed and would not return.”

“I would have your counsel, aunt. For he has ever been the wisest of his kin, and I love him well, and and cannot think him like to the one you loved. Yet he is desperate in his grief and I fear some rash act.”

Nerdanel regarded her thoughtfully. “For my part, I am not certain my nephew is wrong. It is true, the evil of Númenor in these last days was great, and their tyranny wide even before Sauron the Deceiver came among them. Yet the root of the problem may go far deeper. The Valar wished the Edain to be safe, and happy, and apart from all in the world that might harm them, and so called them west across the Sea, even as they did with our people in ages past, and even as then, sorrow has come of it. I defend not the manner of my love’s leaving, nor his words in doing so, but perhaps he was not wrong to desire to depart. Safety, and beauty, and bliss are no ill things; but the pattern of our history and the pattern of our hearts calls out that we are meant for more.”

…. …. …. …. ….

Finrod Felagund threw himself down beside the assorted boards and scraps that did not, in any way, really resemble a ship. The days since his departure had fallen into a stubborn pattern: wake at dawn, work all day on the ship until his hands were scraped raw and bloodied, stare in disgust at how little he had accomplished by evening, sleep, repeat. He had no skill at shipbuilding; but it would be worse than useless to ask for anyone’s help, as no one else in Valinor could think his impulse less than mad, and any attempt he made to put his feeling in words would reinforce that opinion rather than dispell it. It was not as though Middle-earth had any need for him, specifically, or he had any plans of being decisive in their battles or struggles; it was his own need that drove him, a desperate need to be gone from this place.

If you fear friendship between Haleth and those who have devoured her kin…

The thought and others like it had returned to him often enough, despite his efforts to banish it, that he was beginning to acknowledge he did not truly wish to do so.

He had left a month ago, at first telling himself that he merely needed time alone to clear his head, and intending to stay away until he was capable of holding a civil conversation rather than shouting at anyone who addressed him. He felt no more capable of doing that than he had when he’d left, and if anything, less desirous of it.

Smug, sanctimonious, self righteous…His Vanyarin relatives, thinking that fighting one brief victorious war in a land whose destruction meant nothing for them, their dead leaving the Halls scarce moments after entering it, gave them an understanding of the sorrows of the Hither Lands and of mortality. The Noldor, who at least ought to know better, speaking as if they had never seen or known evil until they saw it in Men. All of them, more than content to be barred forever from their brothers, and live in a land that was become the tomb of the buried undead.

They had been assured that a Straight Road still existed for other Elves to join them, as if that was all that could still matter to them of the affairs of Middle-earth. Well, if a road existed, it ought to run in both directions.

Not all of them do. Time does not.

But if there was a possibility, he had to try, else he would go mad.

Madder.

Sleep was a hopeless endeavour tonight. He lit a lantern, and continued his work.

#tolkien #the silmarillion #finrod #fanfic #fic

[easterlingwanderer]

Ok but about the Valar suppose omniscience?

They really know A LOT LESS of what they admit, or even, likely, what they realize.

By canon, the Valar sang the Music of the Ainur, WITHOUT the metal encore of Melkor, both in the first and the second music.

Which means they likely DO NOT KNOW about that part of it. They do not know about what Melkor’s singing his own song has, so to speak, done to Ea (and this is shown when Eru show the Valar how Melkor had, in some cases, improved on the basic).

BUT Melkor’s music DID end up being part of Ea, and of Arda. Now, we can debate if Eru didn’t want to or couldn’t take that part out (my bet is in the latter choice) but he didn’t. As such, everything Melkor did is... out of much of the Valar, and the Maiar, knowledge. 

Not only that, but it is something they don’t *want* to know. There is the uneasy impression that there is a contagion of sort here, like knowing Melkor’s doing on the World will, in some way, sway them (as some Ainur were swayed to sing for Melkor in the beginning).

The Valar are made incredibly uncomfortable by Melkor, and, by extension, by the World he -Melkor- has contribute to create. It is not strange that they close their door on it and retreated on Valinor, where they tried to keep the “tainted” world out. 

However, this is... Likely a great mistake. Lets not forget that, even if Melkor’s song was not in the origin part of Eru’s plan, Eru did embrace it.

In this view, Melkor did... what Melkor had to do, in a way. Melkor may have been “evil” (Tolkien thought of him as such, but it is one of the many time ancient myth and Catholicism do not mix well) but you can just as well see him as *going his part* even if his part is, well, chaos. Destruction and re-creation. Change.

The problem is that the ones who should have been good, the Valar and especially Manwe, for fear of some kind of contagion just... close themselves in and refused to see what he was doing and, even more so, to act in defense and help of the Eruhini.

In a way it is a sort of willful ignorance which throws rather a big wretch in the concept of their suppose all-knowing. In this view, Maiar who have seen “both side”, like Sauron or, to a less degree, Osse know MORE than the Valar themselves (though how much they understand is up to debate).

I wondered often why Tolkien never punished the Valar for their negligence of duty. The reason is probably that Tolkien valued likely Order more than Justice, and perhaps subscribed on the concept of evil as “contagious”. 

I don’t.

And I find interesting that, if we dwell in the Catholic theory then yes, what the Valar did IS very very wrong.

Methinks some interesting stuff will go on, in the end of the World...

@admirable-mairon I was thinking maybe Mairon saw the Valar as... terribly limited -which they are- would you agree? ò.ò

#valar #tolkien #vala #manwe #melkor #morgoth #the lord of the ring #sauron