#episode 47 Missing Scene ;)

[longwuzhere]

Here are some cool Easter eggs that I found the newest My Adventures with Superman episode, "My Interview with Superman" Links to my first two easter egg posts for episode 1 and 2 are here and here.

Link to my episode 4 easter egg post is here

Link to my episode 5 easter eggs post is here

Link to my episode 6 easter eggs post is here

Link to my episode 7 easter eggs post is here and here

Link to my episode 8 easter eggs post is here

Link to my episode 9 easter eggs post is here

Link to my episode 10 easter eggs post is here SPOILERS if you have not seen the episode of course:

We start off the episode with an Amazo Tech blimp crashing into a building in Metropolis

You don't see a lot of blimps in Metropolis. Gotham is usually the one with a lot of blimps flying around. If you saw the episode on Adult Swim when it premiered on air you'll know that the next episode involved Professor Anthony Ivo and Amazo Tech. Throughout the previous episodes and this one, the Amazo Tech brand is shown to set up next week's episode. After the scene we go to a break in at Stryker's Island (more on that location later) as we see one of the villains for the episode Mist...

and one of his partners...

Rough House who are trying to break out...

Shiobhan McDougal. If you know your Superman comics, you'll also know here as Silver Banshee.

Kyle/Mist is a VERY old DC supervillain from the 1940s who first appeared in Adventure Comics #47 (1941) as the arch villain to Starman. Mist's design in the comics is RADICALLY different from the show.

MAwS modernized Mist's design compared to here in these comics panels (W: Alfred Bester, P&I: Jack Burnley, C: Raymond Perry, L: Betty Bentley). In the comic Mist's power allows him to turn his body into a gaseous form thus the name. MAwS uses Mist as someone who can turn himself and objects invisible (lowkey when Mist showed up I was like "is that Luminus from Superman the Animated Series?") Fun fact in the comic, we don't know what Mist's last name is. All we know is that his name is Kyle and in the show that is what Rough House calls him on accident but at least he has a last name, McDougal in MAwS.

Rough House makes his first appearance in Adventures of Superman #544 (1997) (W: Karl Kesel, P: Stuart Immonen, I: José Marzán Jr., C: Glenn Whitmore & Digital Chameleon, L: Albert DeGuzman) where we see him rip open a door with his bear hands as a member of Intergang (more on them later).

Siobhan McDougal aka Silver Banshee makes her first appearance here in Action Comics 595 (cover by John Byrne). In the comics Silver Banshee's powers are a lot different than how MAwS does it. Comics Silver Banshee has the Banshee Curse giving her powers like flight, super strength, a death stare, and of course her signature thing, the Death Wail, a sonic scream that can knock someone into a coma or it outright kills them. The version in the show gives Silver Banshee her signature sound manipulation powers through a mask...

which kind of invokes her comic counterpart's skull face design.

Mist and Rough House break into Stryker's Island to free Mist's sister Silver Banshee (in the comics Mist and Silver Banshee have no familial connection). Stryker's Island makes its first appearance in Superman #9 (1987) (W&P: John Byrne, I: Karl Kesel, C: Tom Ziuko, L: John Costanza) where Joker arrives in Metropolis to challenge Superman. Stryker's Island is supposed to be a stand in for Riker's Island in New York even though there is a Riker's Island in the DC Universe because Metropolis is often a reflection of New York City.

The next Easter egg is the scene after where Lois name drops Waid's Cafe as a reference to...

Mark Waid, one the best writers in the comic book industry. In terms of DC work, you might recognize his writing credit on Flash with artist, Brian Augustyn (we miss you Brian), Kingdom Come with painter, Alex Ross, and Superman Birthright with artist, Leinil Yu (highly recommend checking out all three titles). He's also currently writing for Batman/Superman: Worlds Finest with artist Dan Mora, which I also HIGHLY recommend reading. Fantastic writer, super nice person if you ever meet him at a convention.

Later, Jimmy is heard screaming "back you monsters" and we see some more of the Daily Planet staff...

From left to right its Cat Grant (doing the anime high society lady laugh), who runs the celebrity and gossip side of the paper, Steve Lombard, who reports on sports, and Ronnie Troupe, the investigative journalist on the team. Their names were mentioned in the previous episode after taking Lois, Jimmy, and Clark's credit for the Superman piece.

Cat Grant make her first appearance here in the Adventures of Superman #424 (1987) (W: Marv Wolfman, P: Jerry Ordway, I: Mike Machlan, C: Tom Ziuko, L: John Costanza) as a potential love interest to Clark to shake up the Clark-Lois-Superman dynamic. You might've seen her in the live action CW Supergirl show. Like in MAwS, in the comics Cat does the gossip columns writing for the Daily Planet.

Steve Lombard makes his first appearance in Superman #264 (1973) (W: Cary Bates, P: Curt Swan, I: Murphy Anderson) as a foil to Clark Kent. Steve acts very brash and rude to contrast Clark's mild manner and friendly demeanor. Later iterations of Steve give him the mustache that becomes part of his signature design.

In MAwS, Ronnie Troupe is a gender swap of Ron Troupe in the comics who makes his first appearance in the Adventures of Superman #480 (1991) (this page specifically, W: Jerry Ordway, P: Tom Grummett, I: Denis Rodier, C: Glenn Whitmore, L: Albert DeGuzman). Like his MAwS counterpart, Ron is an investigative journalist and very level headed. He was the first to break the story about Cyborg Superman meeting the then PoTUS, Bill Clinton.

A news report on TV in the Daily Planet shows Bethany Snow of Channel 52 News reporting about the break out in Stryker's Island. The logo for Channel 52 News reminds me very much DC's 2005 logo.

As for Bethany Snow and Channel 52 News, Bethany made her first appearance in the New Teen Titans #22 (1982) (W: Marv Wolfman, P: George Perez, I: Romeo Tanghal, C: Adrienne Roy, L: Ben Oda) as a news reporter and follower of the Brother Blood cult.

Later iterations and retcons had Bethany Snow as just a reporter where she does the Channel 52 news in the back end of DC comic titles in 2013.

Freddie E. Williams II is the artist for these as Channel 52 was way to let readers know what is happening in other DC titles that they might want to check out with other DC characters reporters accompanying Bethany as seen in the promotional art with Vartox, Ambush Bug, and Calendar Man. Obviously MAwS redesigned Bethany Snow but they at least kept her occupation.

A quick one but we see Lois call Clark "Smallville" a nickname that has been used in various media involving Clark and Lois.

After news report on TV, we cut to Siobhan, Kyle, and Rough House in their hide out where they name drop their group name, Intergang.

In the comics and other media, Intergang is a world wide crime syndicate who is supplied with powerful high tech weaponry from the evil New Gods of Apocalypse, if you know your DC universe, that is everyone is Darkseid's circle. Intergang first appeared in Superman's Pal, Jimmy Olsen #133 (1970) created by LEGENDARY artist Jack Kirby.

Here in Forever People #1 (1971) (W&P: Jack Kirby, I: Vince Coletta, L: John Costanza), you can see they have direct contact with Darkseid. Originally led by Morgan Edge, later versions of Intergang had leadership change from Joe Danton to Max Danner. Post-crisis, Intergang is led by Bruno Mannheim (the Intergang boss that I am familiar with), his father Moxie Mannheim would later lead Intergang. Current continuity in DC has Bruno still be the leader of Intergang.

In the episode we learn that MAwS version of Intergang is very small time. Siobhan, Kyle, and Rough House rob convenience stores and make smash and grab runs. But maybe MAwS will move Intergang in the criminal syndicate direction in the future who knows.

After the Intergang scene we cut to Lois, Jimmy and Clark walking up to the front of Stryker's and Jimmy mentions something interesting about convincing the warden to spill on the government's... (read Jimmys quote in the screenshot to complete the sentence)

The term meta-human has its roots in the DC Universe if you did not know! The term was first used here in Invasion #1 (1988) (W: Keith Giffen and Bill Mantlo, P: Todd McFarlane, I: P. Craig Russell, C: Carl Gafford, L: Gaspar Saladino)

In the comic, the Dominators discover that certain humans have what is known as the meta-gene which grants them powers when under a lot of duress and so to test this they rounded up a group of humans and experimented on them with only 6 surviving who gained powers. The Dominators conclude that the human population must be eliminated or there will be a rise in meta-humans on Earth.

How does the government, according to Jimmy, connect to all this. is a possible nod to one of the plot points in Doomsday Clock where the idea that 90% of DC's meta-humans are from the US and they have been engineered by the government. This conspiracy, in the comic is known as the Superman Theory.

This here is one part of the back matter you can read at the end of Doomsday Clock # 5 (2018) (W: Geoff Johns, P&I: Gary Frank, C: Brad Anderson, Back Matter Design: Amie Brockway-Metcalf). Later the trio, specifically Lois, steals the warden's ID badge and were able to access where Siobhan was kept. On the ID the warden's name is Agatha Zorbatos, who's first appearance in the comics was in Batman #23.4 (2013), as the warden of Blackgate Penitentiary in Gotham

Obviously her design in the comic is drastically different from how she looks in the show. The one on your right is from Batman Eternal #4 (2014) (Story: Scott Snyder & James Tynion IV, Script: John Layman, Consulting Writers: Tim Seeley & Ray Fawkes, P: Dustin Nguyen (my favorite comic book artist of all time), I: Derek Fridolfs, C: John Kalisz, L: Rob Leigh).

At the climax of the episode we see more of the alien crystal that Superman encountered last episode from the tech that MAwS Intergang used and it strangely looked familiar. I wouldn't be surprised if the animation team were fans of Neon Genesis Evangelion especially with the way the robots were designed in the first part of episode one and here how the crystal reshapes itself like the angel Ramiel. Also since I'm at my 30 image limit here and I can't post anymore, I also want to point out that the poster that Siobhan has in her cell was a cat with the words "Believe it" over its head I like to believe that is a Naruto reference because the dub has Naruto say "believe it" all the time. I guess I'm gonna be doing the Easter Eggs and references for each episode so expect this to be a weekly thing. I hope you all enjoy my doing this If you made it down here and want to see my first two easter eggs and reference posts for episodes one and two are here and here.

My post of episode three's easter eggs is here

My post of episode five's easter eggs is here

My post of episode six's easter eggs is here

My post of episode seven's easter eggs is here and here

My post of episode eight's easter eggs is here

My post of episode nine's easter eggs is here

My post of episode ten's easter eggs is here

#My Adventures with Superman #Superman #Clark Kent #Lois Lane #Jimmy Olsen #Amazo #Amazo Tech #Professor Ivo #Anthony Ivo #Professor Anthony Ivo #Mist #DC Mist #DC Comics Mist #Kyle McDougal #Starman #Adventure Comics #Rough House #Silver Banshee #Siobhan McDougal #Stryker's Island #Strykers Island Penitentiary #Striker's Island Penitentiary #Cat Grant #Steve Lombard #Ronnie Troupe #Ron Troupe #Ronald Troupe #Bethany Snow #Channel 52 News #New Teen Titans

[genericpuff]

Mystery solved.

Okay. Okay I gotta figure out where to begin with this- breathes

A fellow ULO community member was going through old S1 panels and pointing out typos that we had all somehow missed (LO typos have a tendency to sneak by like that) and one thing they pointed out that I had never noticed was this one panel from Episode 102:

Particularly pointing out how the font overlays Hades' fingers which is just hilarious. That was where it was supposed to end.

But have you ever actually read the letter?

Because I did. And it took me on a ride I wasn't expecting to go on at 2:30 in the morning.

This shot of the letter is from the second instance it appears, when Hades scratches out part of it and writes, "I love the way you treat me, and I want to feel that way all the time."

But the first time this letter appears, when he's actively writing it, it's delivered to us through narration, in Episode 47. I actually love this episode, it does a great job at visual storytelling without overuse of active dialogue, and the content of the letter itself shows a great amount of self-awareness from Hades in the moment, even though the dark implications of what he's feeling is falling on his own deaf ears and the scene itself is quickly dashed by the obligatory quip-for-comedy-so-people-don't-get-too-sad of Hades' dismissing his therapist's advice, with the irony of him not realizing his own issues as he's writing this letter mere hours before overstepping his boundaries and having a guy whacked for taking photos of the Goddess of Spring.

But there was one line in particular that's always stood out to me.

The line "it ends up hurting you" felt random and out-of-context. In the beginning on my first read through back in early-mid 2019, I thought maybe it was just being poetic and I "didn't get it", until I became a critic of the series and had a reality check and realized it was likely just a typo, perhaps it was meant to be "It would end up hurting you" or something of that nature.

But it was looking at that panel of the letter and actually reading the text that was there that I realized - the line feels random and out-of-context, because it is random and out-of-context.

Look back at the letter. Paragraph eight. Rachel didn't write the full line despite it being necessary to the line 'it ends up hurting you'.

The full excerpt reads:

"I WISH I COULD EMPTY A DRAWER IN MY DRESSER FOR YOU, OR BUY YOU A TOOTHBRUSH TO KEEP IN MY BATHROOM. THE TRUTH IS, EVERY TIME WE HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH EACH OTHER... IT ENDS UP HURTING YOU."

I can't believe it's not just a typo. I can't believe it took me this long to find this. I don't know how this got missed by Rachel, I'm assuming she wrote the letter out first and then copy and pasted the words into a larger font size which she placed throughout the episode, but how could that one part have been missed when the line "it ends up hurting you" is a dependent clause that can't stand on its own without the line that precedes it?

At the very least, I do finally feel like I've found closure over this one scene, now that I know the full context to the line. And I wouldn't have found it if it weren't for people joking about the letter panel being drawn like shit.

But it's definitely discouraging because it begs the question, what else is being haphazardly left out of the dialogue? What other clunky sentences with next to no context or build-up or reasoning could be better if they were actually finished or if Rachel and her team had spent the extra time to double check the script and ensure that no sentence is being left half-finished?

The irony in this scene as well is that Hades acknowledges he's too old for Persephone, he acknowledges that they aren't good for each other and that he'll only wind up hurting her, he acknowledges that he barely knows her and he shouldn't call what he feels for her 'love', but infatuation, a very accurate and self-aware statement that I feel like the current Hades lacks. It makes it feel all the more distressing when the letter makes a return in Episode 102, and he makes one simple change:

As impactful as this statement was back in the day, looking back, knowing fully well how far his character has now fallen, this now feels less like a triumphant statement accepting his feelings and more like one of giving in to his selfish desires. This is even more accentuated by the use of the red ink, which splatters across the page alongside messy handwriting, contrary to the meticulous typewriting above.

He's pushing off his baggage as a mere bridge to cross later.

He's making hopeful assumptions about her feelings and putting her on a pedestal without communicating his actual baggage outside of his own head and with her directly. In fact, he doesn't get around to talking about this baggage until she's in a position to depend on him in Season 2.

He's fantasizing about their future with next to no foundation yet, and while he's recognizing that she might not be happy with him in the long term, he still tosses all those legitimate concerns aside to "I love the way she treats me", as if all that matters is what she can do for him - and what he can and can't do for her isn't important until it will inevitably rear its ugly head after she's already become his.

This is the turning point where Hades has become the villain. Where he's shifted from being the responsible adult and leader to an obsessive fanatic whose only goal is to have Persephone. To the point that, despite him saying in the letter that it would be best to limit his presence around her-

-seems to be upset over the notion of doing that exact thing as soon as she's the one to suggest it. Acting as if he's being rejected when he was the one to originally conceive the idea to limit their presence around one another for her own good.

Hades being a responsible King and adult went out the window years ago and I feel like this was the moment where it happened, and that red pen was the gavel. Apparently all it took was her admitting she has a crush on him - undoubtedly as shallow as his crush on her, based solely on infatuation but not written on paper as Hades' confession was - for him to toss aside all that work to unpack his feelings and all that responsibility he was willing to take. Never mind the fact that her feelings could undoubtedly use unpacking of their own. Never mind the fact that her liking him back still doesn't change the reality of their situation - that they're fundamentally different people, from different worlds, with vastly different experiences and outlooks and values and goals, living in massively different life stages. Try as it might to be presented as romantic, that "opposites attract", it's more appropriately and commonly known as being incompatible.

If this were any other story, this would be a precautionary tale in so many ways, made especially significant for an audience that's largely coming of age and experiencing feelings of infatuation and attraction for the first time.

But this isn't that story. It's Lore Olympus.

Hades is, through and through, the villain of this story, no matter what the narrative tries to convince us of otherwise. I stood by that statement before and I stand by it even more so now. Unfortunately we're now at the point where Persephone herself has become a villain, corrupt by the same system she used to criticize.

And just like the letter and all its raw text admitting to Hades' faults and baggage and showing he's willing to take accountability, so too does the narrative itself slyly tell the ugly truth in between its lines: that love is not enough, that love is not the same as obsession, that power can corrupt even the purest of hearts - that love is enough, that you should pursue the one you desire until they're yours and only yours, that you should climb higher towards those in power above you until you have that same power in your hands.

Because you love the way it makes you feel and you want to feel that way all the time.

#oops this wasn't supposed to be this deep #it was literally just me wanting to point out a missing sentence in a panel from years ago #this is what happens when i eat too much LO food for thought at 3 AM #lore olympus critical #lo critical #antiloreolympus #anti lore olympus #next thing you know i'm drawing parallels between the narrative and hades' own delusions

[kimberleyjean]

Discontinuity alert - let there be light!

So, welcome to the next instalment of my Good Omens metas where we look at some of the inconsistencies and discontinuities in Season 2! In a previous post, I brought attention to the issue of the disappearing cross on Gabriel's Statue and then also the Illustrated Bible. I have more to say about both of these, the book in particular, but that's for another time - because I think I've found something even more obvious!

A word of caution before we jump in - what I am about to share can have significant consequences for the season 2 plot. If you are averse to analyses that reinterpret the narrative of season 2, it might be better to skip this one. You have been warned.

RED ALERT EVERYONE - The scenes in good omens 2 may not have been in order and if you're new to this idea, please check out my previous post first. This has been my conclusion after the mounting evidence, but it's still possible there are other explanations - I just don't think they're very likely. So, FAIRY LIGHTS! Yes, that's right. While everyone has been picking through the details of every scene, what character is wearing, the road markings, the cars... how did we miss the fairy lights around Marguerite's restaurant??

For most of the show we can see these fairy lights, either as characters sit and stand in front of them, or through the windows of other shops.

The first time we see the fairy lights is in episode 1 as Maggie is leaving her record shop (around 13:18):

There are so many shots with the fairy lights throughout the show that I won't exhaust you here to cover them all. However, to my knowledge they are always there until suddenly... huh?

In episode 4 they disappear. We only get one Whickber street scene in episode 4 and it starts around 41:19 with Aziraphale standing next to the Bentley (presumably just returned from Edinburgh):

Nina pulls up on her bike (around 41:27):

Nina goes into her cafe, receiving bad text messages, and we see Aziraphale cut across the road (around 41:50):

Then we cut to Crowley handing his plants to Aziraphale outside the bookshop (around 42:03... and we also hear a weird crash sound during this scene):

While they load the plants in, the wall of Marguerite's is out of shot all the time.

However we then get this shot over Crowley's sholder and they aren't there (around 42:47):

Ok, so they took the lights down from episode 4 onwards right?

Nope, they reappear immediately in episode 5 and stay there:

Just like with Gabriel's Statue, if this was a continuity error, then someone was asleep on the job! But, no, the good omens team are all talented, amazing and they put their heart into this. Something as big as having these fairy lights off for episode 4 was done on purpose.

So, why? What does missing fairy lights tell us about this scene in episode 4? When the fairy lights aren't being shown on screen should we assume they are off or on?

Let the rewatching begin! (I sure will be.)

And there is more to come by the way... when I have time to write it down :)

#good omens #good omens meta #good omens speculation #good omens clues #good omens fairy lights #ineffable mystery #discontinuity #good omens spoilers

[georgies-ftts]

my thoughts and opinions on this weeks episode as someone who didn’t have time to watch last weeks episode, has never watched live american telly before and has discovered a new found hatred for your adverts. Also i swear a lot.

let’s begin

(spoilers obviously don’t be a knob)

1. he cannae be captain he’s only got two stripes on his epilette why are we focusing so much on this man

2. Bobby eyeing up that gun I like that (the acting)

3. this guy is giving me uncanny valley and i don’t like it

4. hehe dongle

5. i mean fair enough… in and out just like he said

6. Hen love of my life where the hell have you been loca

7. “and you won’t be anymore either” that’s actually dead funny to me

8. husbands that saw together survive trauma together <3

9. “everyone survived” i know foreshadowing when i see it

10. there’s a lot of drunk driver hatred (as deserved) somethings gonna occurr

11. oh he’s dead… lol karma fuckhead

12. Hen, i love you but why can noone on telly give me actual realistic CPR… break them ribs girl

13. christ these american adverts are weird

14. let me tell you advertising prescription medicine isn’t actually a normal thing to do

15. I don’t know boss man am no a dr but that’s an awful lot of blood are you sure you should still be breathing????

16. “Are you happy” “Yeah, Yeah I am” i have a feeling that’s all about to change buddy

17. just me or can anyone else not see a fucking thing that’s going on this episode why’s everyone in the dark for?

18. moving on from that i love the lighting in the office scene… chefs kiss

19. EXCUSE ME SHE WAS DOING HER JOB, NEXT YOU’LL SUSPEND HER FOR CODLING THE DRUNK DRIVER AND GIVING HIM TEA AND CHEEK KISSES PISS OFFFFF

20. Why do American comm’s systems always fail whenever you actually need them

21. They were axed to pieces. I will let you off -_- this time…

22. “I didn’t shoot him” honestly… same i hope you get yer pay out boss

23. Athena please for the love of god pop a paracetamol or a codeine and chill the fuck out

24. cause it has never been hard enough for them you just had to add a bastard bomb

25. ITS BEEN 5 MINUTES WHY MORE ADVERTS

26. WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU ADVERTISING TO YOUR CITIZENS

27. The Rookie ad i love it carry on

28. If he wasn’t under the influence then he was just being a cunt and hen had every right to react as such thankyou very much

29. Oh my fuck what is happening - don’t tear them apart i’ll start crying

30. Bitch you’re taking on water stop being a pussy and help

31. “Don’t test me.” Queen, you rag his arse

32. “port stabilisers are gone” surely you should be tilting like a bitch right now or did i miss a frame

33. MORE FUCKING ADVERTS????

34. why’s that lizard from london?

35. WHY ARE YOU ADVERTISING DEMENTIA MEDICATION THAT IS LITERALLY ADVERTISED ALSO AS A DEATH PILL WHAT DO YOU MEAN COMA AND DEATH THATS NOT HELPING

36. “i didn’t save him either” he quite literally refused your help despite being detained

37. didn’t get that SS Menow reference… try the Mayflower next time

38. “Saving the ship” “course she is” GIVE THEM ONE MOMENT OF PEACE PLEASE I AM BEGGING YOU

39. okay good they are tilting like a bitch i will shut my mouth

40. NO STOP TILTING LIKE A BITCH I DONT CARE ABOUT REALISM I TAKE IT BACK NO

41. HOW MANY MORE ADVERTS DO YOU NEED

42. i don’t know but all your meds just seem to be doing the opposite of.. you know… keeping you alive.

43. woah therapy flash back get me one of those

44. you forgot to mention imminent death in your therapy session Mr Sir

45. “We did what we had to do” YOU’RE ALLOWED TO LIVE TOO.

46. “I couldn’t save my first family and I can’t save you either” and what if that was my last straw Robert Nash

47. ABC you can tone down the writing now i’m fucking sobbing

48. FUCK YOU AUSTRALIAN MAN I WAS CRYING MY EYES OUT

49. glad the us also have those Haribo ads

50. first time in my almost 20 years of life where i’ve seen an ADVERT for ANTIDEPRESSANTS that also actively make you MORE DEPRESSED

51. Hen i knew you were slaying you’ve never not slayed <3

52. no need for it was there mr boss man? no didn’t think so

53. You have no jurisdiction past the Gulf of Mexico??? ummmm??? distressed cruise ship full of your citizens???? idk??? do something????

54. oh. welp. no surviving that one, have fun with poseidon my loves

55. i don’t know about you but once i’ve been capsized like that in anything bigger than a kayak im giving up…

#911 series #911 abc #911 show #911 fox #911 spoilers #911 7x02 #athena grant #bobby nash #911 bobby #911 athena #911 hen #henrietta wilson #evan buck buckely #911 evan buckley #911 eddie #eddie diaz #911 chimney #chimney han #911 maddie #maddie buckley #bathena #bobby x athena

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Dead Friend Forever: Episode 12- Squicks and Triggers

Busy day yesterday so sorry for the delay on getting the squicks and triggers post out for Episode 12. Any blue colored time stamps are plot relevant moments and any red colored time stamps are any potential seizure triggers I was able to catch (I didn't see any in here, but it is totally possible I missed them). If there is a trigger or squick that will prevent you from watching a plot relevant moment, feel free to reach out to me via DM or ask and I will tell you what happened during that time stamp :)

00:00-2:47  Recap 2

04:47-05:15 -Intro

06:14-06:18- creepy mask on screen 

06:20-7:08 - character with bloody face

07:08- 07:32- character stabs his eyes with needles, this is intercut with other characters very bloody faces, quick cuts, etc. no needles remain in the eyes after the deed is done

07:32-7:45- close up of character’s face with blood running down his cheeks from his eyes, pans down to bloody needles in his hands 

07:56-8:00- jump scare

8:08-8:38- character being strangled leading to his head being bashed repeatedly against a hard surface with blood dropping on his face

09:35-9:51- character choking, seizing, being threatened with axe

09:51-10:17 character being strangled, then a different character being strangled, then both characters being strangled 

10:17-10:19- sound of bones breaking over a black screen 

10:20-10:31- Mangled bodies visible on stairs

10:47-13:20-  general underlying thread of character suicidality/character asking to be killed

12:22-12:33- blood pool on ground 

12:56-13:00- characters struggle fr knife, grabbing the blade, hands covered in blood 

13:18-13:20- character stabbed

13:22-13:40- characters shown with knife in chest, bloody 

14:22-14:40- character dying from knife wound to chest, blood, emotional distress

15:57-16:33- interspersed imagery of sex between teacher and student, while others watch and film. 

17:10-17:34- suicidality, character jumps off building 

19:42-20:03- character repeatedly bashes their own skull with a rock, blood, interspersed scenes of character falling from building 

20:26-20:31- character cuts their own throat with box cutter, shown on screen

20:53-21:00-  character slipping, unconscious underneath blood soaked water in a bathtub, interspersed with character falling from building

21:08-21:24- character slashing wrists repeatedly with box cutter 

21:45-22:02- character dead in bloody bathtub, character slicing throat, character jumping from building, etc. 

23:08-23:28- character repeatedly stabbing hand with scissors, wounds are visible, sound of metal piercing flesh repeatedly played over flashback 

25:04-25:07- decapitated head 

25:07-25:12- character shown with knife in chest, blood

25:24-26:15- character hangs themselves, shown multiple times throughout the scene

26:15- 26:29- bloody hand visible on screen 

26:41-26:50- hanged character shown on screen 

26:55- 27:15- character being strangled

28:32-28:37- character shot

28:37-29:21- blood visible on character’s head, character shown with knife in chest and blood all over 

30:10-31:02- all the dead characters shown on screen in a continuous shot, mangled bodies, stabbed, blood, etc. 

32:16-32:50- severe emotional distress

#dead friend forever #dff #dff the series #dead friend forever the series #dead friend forever squicks and triggers #dff squicks and triggers #dead friend forever episode 12 #dff episode 12 #dead friend forever ep 12 #dff ep 12

[thenamessparkplug]

The Bad, The Worse, and The Downright Idiotic

A Wiatt Nicholson Analysis

YOU GUYS HAVE NO IDEA HOW LONG I HAVE WAITED TO VERBALLY KILL THIS DUDE. I HAVE BEEN STRANGLING HIM WITH MY MIND SINCE THE COLLAPSE OF THE BUILDING. AND THIS IS WHY.

DISCLAIMERS!! : One, I have absolutely nothing against any of the writers on this show! You all are doing a fantastic job for how small this series is and I do genuinely adore the work you guys do < 3. Second, I want to make it clear that I do not condone anything Sara has done on her own terms. And she has done bad things on her own terms. She has done horrible things and I do not think that should be brushed under the rug. I do, however, believe her to be redeemable. 

(side note I did get a lil sidetracked when talking about sara, whom I also have strong feelings towards and'll prolly get her own rant in the future)

What has Wiatt done?

Now Wiatt seems to have his heart in the right place, however good intentions hardly amount to much when your actions directly cause death, suffering, and irreversible damage.  

He can’t tell that so much of what’s going on is because Litho knows he’s going to lead people directly into his own plans. This especially became evident in the last episode. Did he not remember the risks of anything relating to Litho?? Why on earth would he think it was safe for Pen, Lisa, or even Hayden whom narrowly survived? 

I know by this point to take everything character’s say with a grain of salt (and I know this isn’t directly Wiatt’s fault either), but I really wanna get into what Hayden said while yelling at Wiatt. He states that since he arrived at dreamworld, someone has gone missing every week. Wiatt has worked here for at least a year. Even considering taking a month off for the collapse fiasco, that is 47 weeks. 47 people. THAT IS INSANE. Even cutting that number in half for hyperbole’s sake that’s still 23 missing people since Wiatt started. Jesus christ man. 

What else has he done? He broke Starlight after recklessly jumping into a hole, got wtdw!rainbott seemingly mindwiped, recorded entirely private and frankly unrelated moments and UPLOADED them, been responsible for the deaths of his coworkers (to name a few anyways), and what does he have to show for it? A police station that thinks he’s insane. He couldn’t possibly have been more tactless trying to convince them to begin an investigation. 

It seems he thinks that because the people he’s against are bad, that automatically makes him good - in the right - but he is so blinded by his sense of a binary wrong and right he fails to see the horrible things he himself has caused. 

Against the Antagonist

I wanna talk about Sara for a second. From what we’ve learned thus far, and I know we haven’t gotten all that many Sara scenes, almost all of what Sara does seems to be attempting to clean up a mess she made many years ago, in comparison to Wiatt who does absolutely nothing but stir the pot.

Sara is stuck here; she is bound to Litho and cannot escape no matter how hard she wants to. She had friends. She’s doing what Litho wants because she has to. We saw what happened when she tried to defy him. Wiatt is only here because of one connection, but could literally leave whenever he wants no harm no foul.

Now the Norman thing I am curious about, because so far, I can’t figure out why 1. she killed him in the first place and certainly 2. why she kept the footage of it. She never seemed to hate Norman, if anything she would be against him for clearly being infatuated with Andrew, and I can’t really blame her for that? I mean nothing is enough to justify murder, but it wouldn’t be in cold blood. I’m also assuming this is before Dreamworld Entertainment due to the fact that Norman seemingly had no involvement. Another odd thing not only was he rebuilt to look exactly like he did when he was alive, but he retained all of his memories as well, and was given a higher power among the staff of Watchful Eye Toys, with memory control himself.

Whatever happened during his death must have been important.

But back to Wiatt. All of Sara actions, albeit terrible, were calculated and she did what she believed was necessary. Wiatt has no concept that his actions have consequences, so all he does is messy things up, making everything far worse than it needed to be.

Why should I care? (Comparison to Eric)

At the very beginning when Eric is first introduced, we are given no reason to care at all about him. I mean, we know he was friends with Lewis but that’s not enough to really grow any attachment to him. We start learning little facts about him, but when it really clicks is during the secret tapes.

Seeing Eric outside of the main plot, his real personality, his hopes, his dreams, his struggles starting from a young age up until how he is today. We’re given the chance to build connections with him and see him as a real person, a character with depth. Knowing his motivations and what built him makes it so easy to grow extremely attached, making any horrific things hit much harder.

Now moving back to Wiatt, we really don’t get to see the real him. We see him once interacting with Lewis, but even that was simply for plot relevance. We really know nothing about him. Even his transition, which would be so easy to capitalize on seeing as the viewership of Dreamworld is highly LGBTQ+, and many people would relate. But we get more about Mike’s transition than Wiatt, and he’s only ever had one real scene as himself.

That’s not even dipping into who Wiatt is as a person. What are his passions? Who are his loved ones outside of just Lewis? What was school like for him? What got him into the mechanic business? Who took care of him after his parents died? I understand this can be hard to smoothly integrate into a story but look how well it worked with Eric’s tapes.

Now this is getting much more into the writing side of the show, but I think something that's kind of lacking is character building filler. As much as having a concise plot is nice, without scenes or even full episodes dedicated to fleshing out our cast, it makes it really difficult to connect.

There’s so so much of his character to explore that we just never get into, and it kinda makes it hard to root for him when there’s nothing backing his character. Just like, a few more tapes of Wiatt would be plenty, something outside of Lewis. I would love to see his relationships with other characters (you cannot build a sense of character off one single relationship), how he views himself, just anything.

Its incredibly difficult to analyze a character when they seemingly have no depth.

In Conclusion

I am not a fan of Wiatt as it currently is (understatement of the year), but good god am I persuadable. I just want Dreamworld to give me a reason to root for him. Something to sympathize with, relate to. Have him improve. Allow him to realize his mistakes, and become a better person for that.

I don’t think he’s a lost cause.

But give me a reason to believe that.

#now yall can have whatever opinions you want #if you still like wiatt whatever it's not my problem do whatever you want lmao #but holy #fucking #shit #he makes my blood BOIL #I hope my thoughts are coherent enough to explain that #anyways have a lovely day< 333 #except for wiatt #fuck you #/hj #rant #ramble #analysis #character analysis #wtdw #welcome to dreamworld #wiatt #wiatt wtdw #wiatt welcome to dreamworld

[shiro-s2e2-erukinzu]

I got a little sidetracked on Saturday, so now I'll share my thoughts on episode 31 of the Spy X Family anime...

I THOUGHT THAT IT WAS AN AMAZING EPISODE with an intriguing thing about it...!! 😲

So let's talk about episode 31 shall we...? 😁

So, the biggest thing that I noticed while watching this episode was that this is the first time that they not only adapted 2 full chapters (Missions 46 and 47), but also part of a third chapter (Mission 48, 8 and a half pages to be exact 😌) for the anime...!! 😲 (I'm only counting the main numbered Missions this conversation and not the Short Missions or the Omake chapters mainly because they are mostly extra content that is also [sometimes not] canon...)

And just to clarify, I do not think that this is a bad thing, I just find what they did for this episode very intriguing...!! 😄 It actually makes a lot of sense that the anime would have to start adapting more than 1 to 2 chapters per episode, mainly because Endo started to do more chapters (not all of them) with less pages!! 😁 Honestly, the only thing about this episode that makes me a little bit upset is that the chapter that I thought would be a perfect finale to this season may not end up being the last episode anymore...! 😩 But, I'm still holding out hope though!! 🤞

Anyway, besides how chapters were adapted this time around, there were at least 4 dialogue changes that I noticed in this episode...!! 😁

Change Number 1:

Anya calls Loid sappy in the manga, while in the anime, she calls him lonesome. I personally prefer Anya calling Loid sappy for missing Yor because I just think that it was cuter...!! 😊

Change Number 2:

Now, McMahon saying saying that Zeb is about to soil himself is bad, but saying Zeb is gonna POOP HIS PANTS is worse...!! 🤣 When I was watching the anime, I was like:

"DAMN, MCMAHON!! YOU DID NOT HAVE TO DO ZEB LIKE THAT...!!!" 😂🤣😂🤣😂

I like both lines, but the anime version made me laugh more...!! 😖

Change Number 3:

Yor says Director McMahon in the manga, while in the anime just says Director. Honestly, nothing too major...! I just noticed this difference when looking back through the manga...!! 😁

And finally...

Change Number 4:

I honestly like both lines, but I think I prefer how the manga version is praised...! 😎

And I think that's all I wanted to talk about for this episode...! I'm definitely loving how the Cruise Arc is coming along in the anime thus far, so I gotta say that WIT STUDIOS and CloverWorks absolutely are KILLING IT!! 😆 Also, one of mine absolute favorite scenes in this arc is happening next week in the anime and I CAN'T WAIT TO SEE IT!! 😁

I wanted to post this review on Saturday, but I like I said, I got sidetracked yesterday... 😅 So, I'll be seeing manga readers later today and anime fans next week as usual...!! 😊

#spy x family #sxf #spyxfamily #spy x family anime #sxf anime #spyxfamily anime #episode review #spy x family episode 31

[random-mailbox]

Random-Mailbox's Favorite Sailor Moon Fics - Week 49 - Proposals

Today’s stories are all about proposals and I think including them into this list is more spoiler-y than usual. Sorry! But they are all amazing ♥️

As always, my apologies in advance for spoiling some of these for you (Fic Titles are linked to either FFN or AO3 entries).

Walk These Old Roads With Me - @queenrisa14

To reconnect with Usagi after his Galaxia-inflicted disappearance, Mamoru whisks her away to the mountains, trying to get over the chasm that has formed between them.

Let's Try This Again…- @areptiledysfunction1107

To make up for his Galaxia-induced botched proposal at the airport, Mamoru decides to rectify things by taking Usagi to check out the Perseid meteor shower and tell her his wish. This one is a lemon.

King of Earth, Fool of Love (and Fashion) - @midnightdrops

Mamoru finally worked up the courage and made a plan to propose to Usagi. That is until the rest of the senshi got involved “to help”

(Im)perfect Proposal - @kaleidodreams

Helios tries his best to propose to Lady Serenity, with everything going absolutely sideways.

Belonging - @tinacentury

This story is set in Sailor Stars if Mamoru DID make it to Harvard but Usagi still didn't realize that the ring he gave her was an engagement one. My favorite part was seeing Mamoru react to one of the best episodes of the season "A Night Alone Together: Usagi in Danger" unfold outside-looking-in. 

The Reveal: Chapter 11: Theme: Secrecy - @kasienda

Mamoru is trying his best to propose to Usagi, except that Sailor Moon and her paranormal activities keep getting in the way. This story is definitely miscommunication done right!

---

Next week we will cover the trop of "Locked In" - be it closets, islands or other tight spaces.

Here are the links to the previous Tumblr posts in these series to explore more amazing works based on different themes - make sure to check them out if you haven't had a chance! (Click on title name to go to the post) - I will keep updating the list every week as new posts come up:

Week 1 - Groundhog Day

Week 2 - Established Relationships

Week 3 - Sex Positivity

Week 4 - Unfinished Stories

Week 5 - Darker Stories

Week 6 - Potions 🧪

Week 7 - Reveals

Week 8 - 👻Halloween🎃

Week 9 - Wrong Perceptions

Week 10 - Non-Senshi AU

Week 11 - In-Progress Fics

Week 12 - Mutual Pining

Week 13 - Enemies to Lovers

Week 14 - Slow Burn

Week 15 - Christmas Part 1 - Ugly Christmas Sweaters and Santa!

Week 16 - Christmas Part 2

Week 17 - New Years

Week 18 - High School AU

Week 19 - Slice of Life

Week 20 - Coffee shop AU

Week 21 - Huddle for Warmth

Week 22 - Friends to Lovers

Week 23 - ❤️Valentines Day❤️

Week 24 - Do a Grouch a Favour Day (or Cheer Up Fics)

Week 25 - Soulmate AU

Week 26 - Amnesia Fics (and resources)

Week 27 - 🍀St Patrick's Day🍀

Week 28 - Fix it Fics

Week 29 - Prompt: Mug

Week 30 - Flowers

Week 31 - Traditions

Week 32 - Dreams

Week 33 - Friends

Week 34 - Body-Swap

Week 35 - Medical Assistance

Week 36 - Sex Pollen

Week 37 - Psychometry

Week 38 - What If

Week 39 - Missing Scenes Part I

Week 40 - Green Jacket

Week 41 - Dr Chiba

Week 42 - Birthdays

Week 43 - Fluff

Week 44 - First Kiss

Week 45 - Reviving Shitennou

Week 46 - Tutoring

Week 47 - Thunderstorms

Week 48 - Food

#sailor moon #usagi x mamoru #helios x chibi usa #fic rec #fic list #sailor moon fanfiction #proposal

[the-conversation-pod]

The ITSAY Anniversary Show, Part 2

WE'RE BACK FOR PART 2!

Following up on our panel for I Told Sunset About You, we brought @liyazaki back to chat with NiNi, @ginnymoonbeam, @lurkingshan, @neuroticbookworm, and @emotionallychargedtowel about I Promised You the Moon. NiNi is probably the biggest IPYTM stan on Tumblr. Join us as NiNi and Ben unpack the nostalgia of Last Twilight in Phuket before the panelists dive into the importance of this half of the Teh and Oh-aew story.

Sit back and listen to the panel discuss Teh's consistent characterization, the way Jai took advantage of that, and the role of queer community in young adult life.

Timestamps

The timestamps will now correspond with chapters on Spotify for easier navigation.

1:16 - Intro 8:00 - Panel Introduction 8:45 - How did you come to BL and IPYTM? 14:35 - Expectations of IPYTM 22:40 - Narrative Structure 31:36 - Teh and Oh's Characters 37:57 - Presence or Absence of Queer Community 42:33 - Relationship Conflicts 47:05 - That Snake Jai 1:01:38 - The Ending and Character Development 1:15:23 - Favorite Scenes 1:23:51 - Outro

The Conversation Transcripts!

Thanks to the continued efforts of @ginnymoonbeam as transcriber, and @lurkingshan as an editor and proofreader, we are able to bring you transcripts of the episodes.

We will endeavor to make the transcripts available when the episodes launch, and it is our goal to make them available for past episodes. When transcripts are available, we will attach them to the episode post (like this one) and put the transcript behind a Read More cut to cut down on scrolling.

Please send our volunteers your thanks!

01:16 - Intro

Ben

And we're back! Following up on our I Told Sunset About You retrospective we are going to move towards I Promised You the Moon. We brought a different collection of panelists this time, but before we get into NiNi’s session with the panelists, NiNi wanted to first discuss Last Twilight in Phuket with just the two of us. NiNi, describe what Last Twilight in Phuket is for the people who may have missed it because they only watched on Viki.

NiNi

I'm not going to describe it, because I'm just going to tell you: hit pause, go to Youtube, find it and watch it.

Ben

I'll describe it for you!

NiNi

Let me describe it, I never get to describe anything anymore, so I'm going to try. 

Ben

I'm proud of you, go for it.

NiNi

So! Last Twilight in Phuket is a… transition piece, if you will, between I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You the Moon, that covers Oh-aew’s final day in Phuket. So they spend the whole day together, they wake up together, they go around town together. They discover that everything around them is changing, in a very very melancholy way that honestly made me want to… pull my hair out, scream, and cry all at the same time. And they recommit to each other, and then they literally ride off into the moonlight, on their way, essentially, to Bangkok. I feel like that covers it? I didn't do as well as Ben, but I think I covered everything.

Ben

Last Twilight in Phuket is that summer after graduation before you go to college. It is the best summer of your life. It is a Bryan Adams song.

[both laugh]

Ben

Last Twilight in Phuket is really fascinating as a choice overall. It's available on Youtube still, it's beautiful. You get this 16-minute, almost short-film-esque piece, that is this huge release of some of the tension from ITSAY. Before you're heading into I Promised You the Moon. Like I knew I Promised You the Moon was gonna be a dramatic mess, because Last Twilight in Phuket is tinged with this whole ‘you can't go back’ feeling about it. 

One of my favorite scenes is when they attempt to go to the beach together, and it's not the same, because it's a bunch of people there. You get this feeling that they both wanted everything to be perfect between them, and it just cannot be, and it never will be. And I just really love, as you called it, the melancholy hanging over that really beautiful experience. Because it's them saying goodbye to their hometown and everything that it means to them. They know this is the end of an era for themselves, and there's this… trepidation about what's coming next that I eat up every time.

NiNi

As somebody who has left my home for an unknown space, an unknown place, at least twice in my life [laughs] … there is that feeling of trepidation. There is that feeling that when you return, nothing's gonna be the same. It's all gonna be different. Having that actually brought to the fore in the way that everything is already different for them, in terms of the places that they're accustomed to being? Their tutoring school is closed down. The private beach that they went to is closed. Things that they had come to rely on—places and spaces in particular that they had come to rely on as their places—were just gone. And what it sets up is that they have to now find new places and spaces, not just because they're moving to another city, but even in their hometown. Their hometown's never gonna be what it was and they are never gonna be the same boys who ran around Phuket crying at each other… ever again. It's all going to be different. Everything's going to change. And that is sort of the essence of Last Twilight in Phuket. It's setting you up, it's preparing you for what's about to come. And it's also just saying goodbye to the things that have gone. It's saying goodbye even to the present moment. So even as things are happening, they're slipping away. 

My favorite scene in Last Twilight in Phuket is the scene where their beach is closed, and they have to go to another beach that's more of a tourist beach, and they're surrounded by people when they're accustomed to being alone in this kind of way. And you wonder like, if Teh is gonna be more reserved because now they're in public. But they're also, like Ben brought up in the last episode, they're also in a tourist space. So they're surrounded by people, yes, but they're surrounded by people who don't know them and who they don't know. So they're free in a way, they're open, and what that allows them to do, they can just be themselves with each other. Teh holds his hand. He puts his arm around him. He hugs him so tightly on that beach when Oh starts crying. It's such a beautiful scene, and it's just so vivid in my mind because of what it represents. They are, like I said, surrounded by people, but the way that the scene is shot, it's like they're the only two people in the world. 

That little short is so beautiful, and it's a perrrrfect, perfect, perfect way to close off the I Told Sunset About You story, and open up the I Promised You the Moon story.

Ben

I agree! You should watch it. It's good, and it's also free and it's available. There's no reason for you not to watch it.

08:00 Panel Introduction

NiNi

So our panel of I Promised You The Moon experts: our lovely transcription team, Ginny and Shan, hopped on this one as well as, once again, friend of the pod Mor: @liyazaki. And we were also joined by two new guests. Bookworm, @neurotic-bookworm on Tumblr, and Susan, @emotionally-charged-towel on Tumblr. And I think that we had a fabulous conversation. I can't wait for you to hear it, so let's dive right in.

08:45 - How did you come to BL and ITSAY/IPTYM?

NiNi

Welcome, welcome, panel of experts! Yes, these are the I Promised You The Moon experts. Let's start with ah, an easy, like a softball question: how did you come to BL, and how did you come to this I Told Sunset About You/I Promised You The Moon story? Shan, let's start with you. 

Shan

I think I have a very unusual path to BL, I kind of came in via kdrama? Where Your Eyes Linger was my first one that I found when I was just perusing the next kdrama I wanted to watch, and then I realized that there was an entire genre of BL after I saw that, and fell quickly down a rabbit hole. Discovered Thai BL, first Thai BL was 2gether—because that was very popular [laughs] at the time that I was looking around, which was in 2021?—and quickly watched a whole ton of GMMTV shows before I Told Sunset About You came on my radar. And I was kind of blown away by ITSAY, it just felt so different from everything else I had seen of the genre. It felt, in a lot of ways to me as a Westerner, more familiar—it was kind of a classic coming of age story, a classic kind of queer awakening story that I had seen before in Western media in some ways, although very specific I think to a Thai queer experience in a way that was very new for me.

NiNi

Bookworm you're up next on my list. How did you come to I Told Sunset About You and I Promised You The Moon?

Bookworm

My first BL was Kinnporsche, which I watched in May of this year, and I then joined Tumblr just to meet some, I don't know, like-minded people I suppose? And I made some friends and then, all of you immediately told me that I had to watch I Told Sunset About You. You had rules about how I had to watch it [laughs] and so I did I Told Sunset About You with Aiden, and I watched I Promised You The Moon with Shan. This is very different from what I've watched so far: I've only watched around twenty shows approximately, but this feels more like, as Shan mentioned, more of a coming of age. It's also very—much more Asian than the other shows that I watched so far. It immerses itself into the culture, the characters have specific traits that are more Asian. Yeah, it was a very fun watch experience. 

NiNi

Bookworm you’re like me, we keep the numbers low but we go for the quality ones. Susan how about you?

Susan

It's funny because Shan was saying that it seems like an unusual path to go into BLs through kdrama, but that's what happened with me too. The first BL I ever watched was To My Star—I just kind of saw it as another kdrama. I didn't really pay very close attention to it, and it's not a show that really rewards, like, half-attention. So it didn't really take hold until a bit later, and actually the first BL that got me really like watching a lot of BLs is Senpai, This Can’t Be Love.  I watched that one because it had two actors in it that were on Kamen Rider and my family are really into tokusatsu. That was kind of my path into the genre in general, and then of course you can't read about this stuff, especially in communities like the Tumblr fan community without hearing about I Told Sunset About You. There are some titles that sound more odd in English, without a cultural context for the countries they come from? And those would kind of stick in my mind a little bit more. And then of course you know I just heard glowing things. My big focus for a long time was, and kind of still is, Japanese BL. That's one of the reasons I hadn't watched it until just recently.

NiNi

Ben's gonna love that, you know Ben is a big big fan of the Japanese BLs. Ginny, let's go to you: how did you end up here on our esteemed panel?

Ginny

I guess this is the Asian drama background group, because I came in through cdramas; I was deep in the Untamed fandom from 2020 on, and got into reading translations of Chinese danmei, BL novels, and the few other adaptations that were available. Because I was studying Mandarin, I resisted getting into other Asian countries’ dramas for a long time, because I was like ‘this is language practice.’ But I saw gifs from Manner of Death, and I was like, ‘wait! wait! They let the boys kiss?’ So… then I had to get into BL. I actually held off on ITSAY for a long time, because I'd been hearing that it was good, and I was like, I know a lot of these are are okay and enjoyable but not like, “quality,” and I want to not blow through all the good ones right away. So I started saving it. And then more came out, and more good shows came out, and I realized, oh there's actually a rich field of quality dramas here. And then I just was like, emotionally afraid, because people kept talking about what an intense experience it was? So I didn't finally watch it until earlier this year, and it was everything that had been told to me. Frequently when I go in expecting something to be intense, it's disappointing, or you know, it falls short of that? This series did not.

14:35 - Expectations of IPYTM

NiNi

That it certainly did not. Mor, I know you would have talked a little bit about the way that you came to BL on the ITSAY panel. So I want to kick off the next part of this with you. So we’re coming off of ITSAY in the halcyon days of whenever we actually watched it, and we get to the end and boom: the story will continue. When you saw that, Mor, what was your expectation of what we were gonna get in this continuation of the story that ended up being I Promised You The Moon? What did you expect going into this?

Mor

So, when I am deeply attached to a story the way I was and will always be with ITSAY, I try to go into follow-ups to those stories with as close to zero expectations as possible. It's a defense mechanism, I'm just very afraid of being burned and disappointed, so I try to not let myself go down those mental rabbit holes of what could happen, because getting stressed out and theorizing—it's not going to change the outcome, we're going to get what we're going to get. You hope that the writers will listen to the fans, you hope that they stay true to what we at least perceive to be the spirit and intention of the original story, but ultimately it is their story to tell, So I try to just get on board, strap myself in, enjoy the ride whatever it's going to be. 

But my general expectation was that we would see some very relatable situations play out, so, living on your own for the first time, being totally responsible for yourself, finding new friends, having very new experiences—especially for Teh and Oh, given where they grew up. Bangkok is such a different environment than Phuket. And all the while they're trying to maintain friendships, they're trying to maintain their relationship. That age is just so exciting and terrifying and constantly in flux, and I expected I Promised You The Moon to showcase that. And it absolutely delivered: just, in a much more gut-wrenching way than I ever maybe originally anticipated, but one that nonetheless still rang incredibly true to life at least for me, and to these characters, which at the end of the day is all I can really ask for as a viewer.

NiNi

Guts were wrenched and no mistake. Bookworm, you're a recent convert to the legend of IPYTM as I like to call it. What did you expect having finished ITSAY, and getting ready to dive into IPYTM? What were your expectations of the story?

Bookworm

When we got to the end of ITSAY, one thing that was very clear for me was that Teh and Oh were seemingly on the same page? They finally were talking to each other and listening to each other, but only on the burning desire that they share for each other, right? Everything else that encapsulated a relationship, they had to figure all of that out, and that was my expectation. Immediately after I ended ITSAY, that was what popped into my head. And I wanted IPYTM to explore those, um, aspects of their relationship, how they were going to figure out living together, how to… spend time with each other, balance the schedules, and all of the other boring things that come with a relationship. And I think yeah, they were pretty successful, I would say.

NiNi

Shan, I'm gonna come to you next. What were you thinking of, having ended ITSAY, seeing that title card come up and then going into IPYTM? What were you thinking that we might get?

Shan

I came in with a lot of stuff already in my head about IPYTM, because as I tend to do, I had been lurking about on Tumblr—that's how I learned about this show in the first place, I probably never would have found this show without seeing people talk about it on Tumblr—so for both ITSAY and IPYTM, like, I kind of went in with like a notion of what the discourse was around them? So, similar to Bookworm, I felt that the next phase of the story would have to be them figuring out how to actually be in a relationship together which, frankly is one of my very favorite reasons for a season two to exist [laughs] of romances? We so rarely get that part of a romance story. 

But I also knew that there was a lot of fandom discontent around this second part of the story. I knew going in that there was a cheating plotline and that people were big mad about it. And I had seen the commentary from some people that Teh had been quote-unquote “ruined” in the second part of the story, and that he was quote-unquote “out of character.” And having seen ITSAY and the quality of that production, and the quality of the writing—like some of the best writing I've seen anywhere in the genre? I just didn't believe that was true, at all! [laughs] So I kind of went in, honestly, ready to fight, and just kind of like prove to myself that those takes were wrong? I went in with a fighting spirit, like, ‘I don't believe that that's true, and I bet this story is so much better than they think, and that fandom just wasn't ready for it.’ So that's kind of honestly the posture that I took into the show. And you know, spoiler alert: they were wrong and I—and we here on this panel—were right.

NiNi

[laughs] Shan came in ready to box. What about you Ginny, how did you feel going into I Promised You The Moon? What were your thoughts and expectations?

Ginny

Very similar to Shan, I had kind of picked up a lot about it by osmosis. I was sure that there was going to be a breakup, I had picked up that there might be cheating, and I knew that a lot of people hated Teh. I left ITSAY loving Teh so much, and also seeing very clearly why people might hate him, the things about him that a lot of people would pick up and be really upset about. So, I think I went in with my expectations… pretty well set for all of that, and… I was just excited to see how the story was going to play out. I also had a lot of trust in the writing and creative talent behind the show, so I was ready to be satisfied by the story, and I was!

NiNi

Coming to you Susan, let's hear it? 

Susan

Well, I haven't seen I Promised You The Moon. I don't mind spoilers, I actually kind of like to be spoiled on almost everything as much as possible. As much as I seek out media that has really a lot of emotional themes, I also can't handle them very well. So knowing what I'm in for really helps me. And it doesn't seem to detract from the experience for me. 

ITSAY seems so self-contained, and so much about a certain moment in time? And it's so tied to the place. It makes it really hard to even picture what it would look like to tell this story, at a different phase of life, in another place. Everybody's a little bit fearful of second seasons and continuations of beloved shows, but if I'm really sold on the initial show, when I hear there's going to be more? Yeah, I'm nervous, but I'm just like yeah, yeah, more okay, sure, great! Yeah, whatever you say just give me more! This is one of the only times that I did kind of feel like hanging back for a moment and being like, ‘how would that work? I don't even know.’ At the same time, I do usually prefer stories about established couples. It just gets at a kind of complexity that is really appealing. As exciting as getting together stories are, the established relationship story is usually kind of where the rubber meets the road. And I like when things get challenging and complicated and people definitely aren't being their best selves anymore, things like that.

NiNi

Definitely there was a lot of that in IPYTM. 

22:40 - Narrative structure

NiNi

So, I'm gonna just switch things around a little bit, I want to talk about how IPYTM is structured, the narrative structure, the story coming out of the very clear five-act structure coming of age story that we got in ITSAY. And I want to really lean on Shan and Bookworm for this. Starting with Bookworm: what are your thoughts on how I Promised You The Moon is structured and organized as a story?

Bookworm

Well when I went into the watch, I was already told that there were going to be a lot of time skips in the show compared to ITSAY. ITSAY was much more fluid and flowing, and it was contained within, I think, just months. But when it came to IPYTM, we had a lot of blocks of time that were left for us to fill. I expected the characters to have breaks—like how the characters would have developed during the times that we have lost, and there would be fractures in the character that we would see? I expected that to happen because that usually does happen when we have a lot of time skips. But it was impressively well-maintained through the time skips, and it did not bother me as much as I expected that it would? Maybe because I was informed beforehand that, this is how, narratively, the structure of the two shows were different. 

Also we see the boys grow up a lot more in the show, right? So there was a sense of, sped-up nature in the show that we did not get in ITSAY as well? I have noticed a sense of discomfort around this narrative structure, but I felt pretty okay with it, maybe it's just a personal preference or maybe it was because I had prior knowledge, but it felt fine to me.

NiNi

Shan, you want to pick up on that?

Shan

I think that the way that we jump through time so much in IPYTM is like the biggest obvious difference, right? So ITSAY was structured kind of like a five-act story, where each episode was a complete act; big shift happens in the relationship in each episode. But IPYTM is different. It's kind of, I think, a three-act story split across five episodes. So you've got episodes 1 and 2 is Act 1, where it's the move to Bangkok, it's the new setting, it's the adjustment, to kind of moving into an adult phase of their relationship? And then into the first fracture in their relationship, related to some of the adult choices that they're having to make. That's kind of Act 1. And then there's a big time skip between episode 2 and episode 3. And episodes 3 and 4 are like Act 2. There's a pretty short time period that both of those episodes span across? Like, maybe only a few weeks of time. And that's of course the BIG big fracture in the relationship, when Teh begins to really drift away from Oh-aew, and ends up kissing Jai, and all of the fallout of that that we saw play out. And then there's another big time skip after the end of episode 4, and we're—head into episode 5, which is their kind of time apart and then their reconciliation. So it really kind of feels like three acts, kind of spread unevenly across five episodes. And each of those installments is paced differently. So I can see how—and you know I think I felt some of this myself as a viewer—it feels a little bit, I think hard to kind of keep your bearings in the story? Whereas in ITSAY you were on one continuous fluid ride, like Bookworm said. 

IPYTM also has to fall back on some filmmaking tricks that ITSAY really didn't use, I think because of this structure. Things like using a lot more flashbacks, using repeating scenes… ITSAY really didn't do that at all, but it happens quite a bit in IPYTM: kind of trying to remind the audience and ground them in things that have happened, because they're skipping through time so much. 

One of the things, that I think is maybe an intentional result of that different structure, is about the emotional tone of the two stories. ITSAY—it’s very emotionally immersive. Like I think on the panel discussion you all had about ITSAY, you talked about how these boys are constantly crying. The emotions are big, right? And that feels very in line with one continuous emotional story, a coming of age story about young boys who are kind of coming into themselves and understanding themselves for the first time. IPYTM, by contrast, feels a little bit more even-keeled. Like, there are emotions, but they're not quite as big. There's a little bit of a remove, and I think that's because they're adults now. Think about the way Teh cries in ITSAY, versus how he cries in IPYTM. In ITSAY he's like honking crying right? He's got like snot dripping down his face, losing his shit, curling into a ball. He has no control at all. In IPYTM when he cries, it's not like that. He does have to kind of keep a lid on it a little bit. He doesn't go quite as deep into his emotions. And so, I think the way that the narrative structure is set up kind of lends itself to that more adult feeling? Of having to restrain your emotions a little bit, and keep getting on with things, and not being able to just kind of wallow in the way that they could when they were young. 

I don't think that one of these styles is better than the other? I think they are just different. And I think that as a viewer, we're probably all going to have a preference there. My preference personally—I like big emotion, you know? And one of the things that Bookworm and I talked about around this, was how there's a little bit of a Western/Eastern dichotomy here as well. I'm a Westerner, I like the bigness of the emotion in ITSAY, that really resonates for me. Whereas for Bookworm, the kind of, more emotional restraint that we see in IPYTM? Resonated a little more for her, and I don't know if you wanted to comment on that at all Bookworm.

Bookworm

Yeah, the bigness of emotions in ITSAY was definitely a factor that disengaged me from the emotion? For me, whenever a character on the screen does not want to feel something, and wants to keep it inside themselves and struggling to do so, and you can see it on the face, the struggle to keep their composure? While having all of this emotional turmoil within themselves? That is what will make me feel all of the emotions that they are trying to feel. I didn't really get that sort of immersion when I watched ITSAY, because Teh and Oh did all of the crying themselves. They cried constantly: they cried in classrooms, they cried [laughs] around their friends, there's just a lot of crying. 

When it came to IPYTM, the emotions were much more subdued. In both of the big moments in Oh and Teh's relationship, when it came to a head—in episode 4 when they fought, and afterwards Teh goes to Q's house to talk to Oh—in both of those moments, both of them were angry, they were confused, and Teh's having the moment of realization of how he has fucked this up, and all of those emotions were dialed way back down. And I definitely felt much more immersed into the story, when it came to IPYTM than I felt in ITSAY.

NiNi

It's really interesting that that's the stuff that you guys picked up on because, in watching the documentaries—and I don't know how many of you have watched the IPYTM documentaries as yet—but one of the things that the director, Meen Tossaphon Riantong, talks about, particularly in that scene in episode 4 that you mentioned Bookworm, is about how when they were doing it they had to do multiple takes because Billkin was crying too much. He was being too emotional, and he needed him to dial it back because he's a grownup now. It was definitely deliberate on the part of the director.

31:36 - Teh and Oh’s characters

NiNi

While we're on the topic of how Oh and Teh are handling emotion, let's delve a little bit into their characteristics, and how that even led them to be where they are, in the rift that they have in IPYTM. I want to start with Mor here: I want to talk a little bit about the different ways that Teh and Oh handle conflict, and the different ways that they… deal with their relationship and how that led them to be in such a pickle [laughs] during I Promised You The Moon.

Mor

That's a very generous way of putting what happened. [laughs] It was definitely a pickle. 

They approach conflict I think in polar opposite ways. Oh wants to talk things through, typically. He's more measured in his approach; you can tell even in ITSAY when they're still in high school that he will kind of wait and absorb and observe. But he wants to be open, he wants to talk things through, and he's very self-aware, whereas Teh doesn't know what he's doing or what's going on. Some of y'all have heard me use this analogy 1200 times already and I'm sorry, but for me, it always comes down to Teh being the equivalent of a human bulldozer. That man, he feels and he acts first, second, and third—and then he maybe thinks fourth or fifth on a good day? [laughs] And I think part of that is just his personality. He's extremely passionate, he has been since he was a kid, and that passion is one of the things that drew Oh to him in the first place. I also think that Oh was basically Teh’s touchstone in many ways from the time that they were kids? So when that relationship was severed, we never got evidence of any other connection that ever came close to that level for Teh. So I think in a way, Teh's emotional intelligence got stunted a little bit when that friendship stopped? And you can really see the difference, the contrast with Oh when they meet up again later in ITSAY. 

Oh seems to make friends easily, he's well-liked, he's already incredibly self-aware and comfortable with who he is. When he gets into university one of the first things Oh does is seek out community. He values relationships. Like I said before he's more measured in his approach to life and to friendships, and because of that he has this emotional maturity and awareness going in to IPYTM that's light years beyond Teh? Teh just doesn't know how to put what he's feeling into words, and beyond that, Teh doesn't even seem to be aware of how he's really feeling in make or break moments that really count. It takes him much longer to process it and be able to communicate that. To top it off, Teh's tunnel vision is so focused on becoming an actor, and the friendships he makes are either accidental or they're initiated by other people, and he seems to minimally invest in them? Except for once Jai had him under his spell of course. 

Teh also wants things to stay exactly the same, we see that a ton in I Promised You The Moon. Teh just does not cope well with change. It's like he wants to willfully ignore that it's an unavoidable part of life. When their friendship ended initially Teh lost the main person in his life who in my opinion challenged him, which Oh did just by nature of being himself. Oh doesn't have Teh’s one-track mind determination, which of course brings its own set of issues and insecurities for Oh, but it also opens him up to seeing more possibilities, something that Teh has a hard time even conceptualizing. And I think because of this Teh got even more one-track minded once he started drifting away from Oh in IPYTM? Teh’s basically rigid in a time where it is crucial to be flexible. He's blind to the fact that not everyone operates in the same way he does, especially his partner. 

So basically you have these two people coming into this relationship with incredibly different ways of approaching life. One partner with subpar communication skills—and I'm being generous with that. [laughs] And they're in a new environment with new routines, new people, new challenges. These are differences that may have never become an issue in a friendship, but a romantic relationship? You can have the best intentions in the world, but when you have that much fundamental imbalance in an intimate relationship, that's a powder keg ready to explode. It leaves the perfect window of opportunity for snakes like Jai to take advantage of that at the first chance that they get.

NiNi

Yes, join me in the “Jai is a snake” corner over here. [laughs] I want to come to you Susan actually, because having not watched I Promised You The Moon, and just listening to everybody else talk about how Teh and Oh have progressed within I Promised You The Moon and the way that their relationship comes apart—but having watched ITSAY, does it surprise you how things went with Teh and Oh coming out of ITSAY?

Susan

Ah, no, not at all, it actually seems really in keeping with the characters, and their kind of styles in how they relate to each other and, how they negotiated their relationship in ITSAY. I think it's really consistent.

NiNi

You heard it here first from our resident behavioral expert, people: Teh is not out of character.

Susan

People get into kind of complementary roles in relationships. It can be kind of one person's job to do certain things and voice certain types of needs, and another person's job to do the things that that role isn't taking care of, and voicing the needs that that person is afraid to voice, while maybe not voicing some needs that the other person is voicing. Big example of that is pursuing and distancing. A lot of relationships have some kind of imbalance between who's pursuing and who's distancing. The thing that I think kind of sums up pursuers and distancers is that it's about what you do when you're in distress. When a pursuer is in distress they're looking for connection, and distancers, when they're stressed, they want to get away. Again and again we see Teh just disappearing, when he's distressed, and kind of making it everybody else's job to track him down.

NiNi

You're taking us to church here. [laughs] 

37:57 Presence or Absence of Queer Community

NiNi

I want to come to Ginny. One aspect of the character stuff that came up during Mor's contribution, and it's come up with Susan as well: this idea of Teh being more of a… lone wolf kind of character, whereas Oh always finds community, and when he moves to Bangkok he finds queer community where Teh does not. I have always felt like part of the way that things went between them was because Teh had no community to talk to about the things that he was experiencing and feeling?

Ginny

I'm having so many thoughts in response to what Susan said, and in response to your question. They both do seek connection, but Oh-aew is much much more interested in community, in friendships, in sharing himself in a fluid kind of balanced way. Teh has this intense drive for a one-to-one, deeply intimate, deeply entwined connection. He's not interested in friendships especially: he wants people to, like, bind their lives with his, he wants people to, like, twist their identity into his. 

I want to go back to a couple of the things Susan was saying about the pursuer distancer dynamic first, which is that we do see Teh work very hard for the relationship in practical ways. Like he's the one keeping late hours and driving all over town to make sure he can spend the night with Oh, and he never once complains about that or resists that, because he is devoted to Oh in this way. But he has a very rigid conception of what that looks like, and as soon as the idea that they're not on this same career path, on the same path of artistic passion together? As soon as that's shattered, his idea of this unified partner that will walk aside him and share everything important in his life starts to crack, and he starts to look away from Oh-aew, and eventually to look to someone else for that kind of connection and bond that he feels like he needs. And for Teh at this point, his understanding of his sexuality has become kind of a non-issue, whereas his binding of his romantic interest and his artistic passion is where all of his turmoil lives. 

Meanwhile Oh-aew has made this wonderful friend group. I recently rewatched the series, and their first interaction where he first meets Q and the other friends… the first time I watched it I was so tense because Oh's loneliness and his homesickness is palpable and painful at that point in the story, and you just desperately want him to have somebody. And he sits down with this crowd of kids and you're not sure what's going to happen. It's not obvious right away that they're queer unless you're paying close attention, like, Q’s fingernails are painted, there's little cues there, other things like that. And then within two seconds of meeting them, Oh-aew starts crying because he's so homesick, and I was like ‘oh god, what's going to happen, I'm so stressed for him.’ But these boys just like surround him, they're so sweet to him, and then it becomes clear. Right there you've established, this is a queer friend group and every time you see them together there's just all these indicators that like, these are people that Oh can be at home with, can come into more of himself with, can be supported by. The way they hold him through the breakup makes me cry. Because it doesn't take away any of his pain, but they're so there for him. He's never alone and he's never unsupported. It makes a tremendous difference to how I think things go at the end. I don't think Oh gets to a place where he's able to come back to Teh at the end, if he doesn't have that community support holding him really through his whole college career and especially through the breakup.

42:33 Relationship Conflicts

NiNi

I want us to delve into some of these different things that Oh’s friends are supporting him through, that Teh doesn't seem to have the same level of community on. Their initial conflicts, the early stuff that was happening, the things that are happening with them in year one and particularly the giant fight that they had in episode 2. I'm going to come to Shan for this. 

I love talking about how horrible Teh is in episode 2 of I Promised You The Moon, because that boy was being rancid. But I also want to talk a little bit about how the seeds of that were sown in the little cracks that you saw in episode 1.

Shan

Thank you for allowing me to talk about Teh being rancid in episode 2. That fight is brutal! It starts with Teh being so passive aggressively awful to Oh-aew in front of other people. Oh-aew has come into this restaurant to sit with Teh and his seniors—these are people that Oh-aew is not particularly comfortable around? This is not a friendly crowd for Oh-aew. He is with people that he doesn't know well, that are older than him, that he wants to make a good impression on, because they are important to Teh and and he's Teh's partner. So for Teh to start taking digs on him under those circumstances, and to just not let up and keep relentlessly going no matter how many times everyone at the table tries to deflect him away from it? Just so brutal to watch. 

And the seeds were planted pretty early on, right? This was seeded not even just in episode 1 of IPYTM, but way back at the beginning of I Told Sunset About You. The original fracture in Teh and Oh-aew's friendship is because of Teh's inability to roll with Oh-aew acting in a way that he doesn't like. He's jealous of him. He's jealous of how easy things come to him. He is… judgmental about Oh-aew's inability to stick with things, or to know exactly what he wants? He looks down on Oh-aew a little bit for being a follower, for adapting the interests of the people around him. Now in college Oh-aew gets to school and he's miserable, and he realizes he doesn't actually want to do the thing he thought he was there to do. And you know, let's not forget that Oh-aew is sitting in in the program that Teh gave up for him. Now Oh-aew never asked him to do that, of course, that was Teh’s big dumbass mistake. But Oh-aew has the thing that Teh wanted and that Teh gave up, in his mind, for Oh-aew. And Oh-aew doesn't value it the way that he would, and he doesn't like it the way that he would, and he decides to give it up. And he gives it up to follow his new friends into their passion. Now, is that a totally fair way of looking at it? I don't think so: Oh-aew is clearly good at marketing. He has, like, a natural aptitude for it; it makes sense that he would go that way. But from Teh's perspective, he's just looking at Oh following his latest friends into the thing they're doing, and he kind of sees it as part of that same pattern. 

So that was seeded so consistently throughout their relationship, that kind of tension point, and the way that Teh judges Oh-aew for this kind of behavioral pattern that he has? And so to see that come out in that fight, and for Teh's resentment of that to just continue to simmer and simmer and simmer, to the point where he cannot keep it together even in front of other people—and he embarrasses himself even more than he embarrasses Oh-aew in that scene with his seniors. It was such a brutal scene but it also felt so real, it was such a real kind of fight that you see long-term couples get into, where one of them just starts digging at the other, knowing all their weak points and knowing all the worst parts to hit, and that's what we watched Teh do in that scene. And all of it was so, like, deeply seeded in the story that we knew exactly why it was happening.

NiNi

Doesn't make it any easier to watch.

47:05 - That snake Jai

NiNi

Now it's time to talk about that snake Jai, and I'm going straight to Mor on this because Mor and I watched this together live while it was happening. [laughs] Come through, Mor. Let's talk. Let’s talk about Jai, let's talk about Teh and Jai, let's talk about how Oh-aew clocked Jai, just bring it out.

Mor

Oooh, that man. That man! The first thing that always comes to my mind that NiNi and I would just rant on, and we could not let it go—because how could you—is that fricking journal. The fricking journal! That was the most disgusting, manipulative… I can't think of something more insidious as a plot device to use. Not only is there a power imbalance already between these two, because yeah, they're not that far apart in age, but Jai is in a place that Teh wants to be in. He is succeeding in the area that Teh is dreaming of being in. Teh is already looking up to him so much. From the first time that he walks into the acting club, he's hearing from other people about how important Jai is, basically. So there's already an an imbalance there. 

Jai is experienced. He obviously knows how to read people and use them very well, we see that from the beginning. So I feel like he saw Teh, and just laser focused on him. And using the journal the way he did: it was like he asked Teh to make him a manual—’Go ahead, go ahead Teh, write out to me how I can best wrap you around my little finger and use you! Use you for my devices; use you to further my career, my dreams, my motivations. And once I have wrung you dry and left you with nothing… well, you know, whatever, I helped you! I, I helped—it's not my fault, we're not in a relationship. We’re—I mean, this is just professional! This is acting, Teh! That's how it is!’ I mean so much of Jai, and where they wound up, and just that whole relationship: it comes back to that journal. Again, it was just like a manual of how to manipulate him. It was so disgusting. I was so angry! [laughs] 

I'm getting angry now, I've never been so upset watching what felt like a slow motion car crash where Teh is just completely unaware of what is happening, and how he is being played like a fiddle. And you just have to watch it go on, and because he's drifting away from Oh, there is truly nothing to help him. There are no guardrails. There are no safeguards at this point. And that's why to me, it was not shocking in the least what happened. As we saw it in ITSAY, he just feels and feels and feels first. He does not think first. [laughs] And the way that that whole relationship played out from the beginning, Teh was set up to fail. 

Whoo! I'm gonna get off my soapbox now.

NiNi

[laughs] No, god, I love that so much. My thing on Jai is, when I saw Jai gaslighting Teh that was one thing, but then when he tried to gaslight Oh-aew—that was when I knew that he was a snake and that was all I was ever going to think about him. But I think that Bookworm has some slightly different thoughts on Jai? So Bookworm, if you want to pull those out and tell us what they are.

Bookworm

Well, make no mistake NiNi, I also hate Jai so passionately. But the thing that struck me as soon as I finished episode 3 with Jai and Teh kissing in that rehearsal room, was that Teh tends to… have trouble trying to separate what his ambitions are and what his desire is. When it comes to Jai he is just somebody Teh looks up to, somebody who is ahead of Teh, who can guide him to the goals that Teh has set up for himself for so long. And, immediately he transfers all of that longing and the visceral need onto Jai. He keeps lusting on the personification of his ambitions, and I would argue that he does the same thing in ITSAY as well. There are certainly other factors but when we see how easily Teh got roped into Jai’s schemes and how he… let his heart sort of go with Jai wherever he pulled, because he was blinded by the ambition and the achievements that he wants in his career. There is a shadow of that in Teh and Oh’s dynamic in ITSAY as well. 

Another thing that I tried to keep an eye on after episode 3 was that, if there was no Oh-aew in Teh’s life, would Jai be Teh’s future self? Is that what Teh would become? There is certainly, few things that Teh does that feel so close to what Jai did to him. For example, when he showed up on Tarn's doorstep asking her to tell him that she loves him, but he doesn't want to say it back. It's not a far reach, you can see how Teh can easily become Jai, but there is also a part of him that I think is just not as ruthless. Like Mor mentioned, he is a human bulldozer, everything he does is just chaos and he only stops and reflects when he has just demolished everything in his sight. But he does reflect, right? He stops and he thinks about it. He talks to Oh-aew whenever they stop and have a conversation after whatever mayhem has happened, Teh can go into his mind and he can point out where he's going wrong, and he can see the things for himself without somebody else telling him: this is where you're making mistakes. He would just spell it out by himself, he has that ability to identify the ways that he's hurting the people around him, and the reasons that he's doing that. That is what sets him apart from Jai.

NiNi

So so so so so, so accurate. Given everything that Bookworm just said about the similarities between Jai and Teh, and the difference being Teh’s ability to reflect versus Jai’s: we're given indications in the show that Jai feels guilty—I don't buy them necessarily, but Ginny, do you think that Jai feels bad about what he did? Not that he wouldn't do it again, [laughs] but do you think that he feels bad about what he did?

Ginny

So on my first watch I read Jai more sympathetically than on my second watch… which is less because I knew what was going to happen on the second watch, and more because I saw some of the nuances. Small indicators he was giving that he was calculating the whole time. I do still think—like, Jai is not a monster; Jai is a human person. He clearly has the ability to see what he did to Teh. He knows how badly he hurt him and how he ruined that relationship. And I do think he feels a way about that. Like you said NiNi, he wouldn't do it differently. He's made his choices, and he's never given any indication that he would ever put another human's feelings above his goals. 

And in his own way, he might think he is helping Teh, because for Jai, the artistic achievement and the career achievement is more important; the ambition is more important than anything else. And if he got Teh to a place where he performed very well in that play—he got a request from an agent and it ended up launching his career—so Jai might look at that and say, ‘See I helped you, because I gave you something that you really really wanted. So what if I had to break your heart and this other person's heart and ruin your relationship to do it?’ So I think he has feelings about that, but I think Jai's priorities are such that he would never regret what he did.

NiNi

Anybody else have thoughts on that?

Shan

I think that there was an intentional choice in the ending montage to show Jai reacting to the news that Teh and Oh-aew got back together? To give us a little bit of a sense that Jai does remember—I don't think he regrets what he did to Teh in that relationship—but he cares a little bit about it, enough to feel some sense of, maybe relief that they were able to work through it, and that whatever he did didn't totally destroy them forever? Frankly, I don't like the choice to show us that. [laughs] I don't care about Jai, I don't care what he feels about it. But I do think that was included intentionally to kind of communicate to the audience, like Ginny said: he's not a monster, he's a human, and he… very similarly to how we see Teh behave sometimes, he puts his ambitions first over the way he treats others. And I think they wanted us to see the humanity in that, and not totally just write him off as a villain.

NiNi

He can kiss my ass. Go Mor.

Mor

Them showing us that scene, to me, was the final nail in the coffin of, okay, all right, my read on you? Mhm, it’s been right this whole time. [laughs] Okay, yeah, Jai probably isn't a monster but the thing is, from a personal perspective: I've known Jais. Something that NiNi and I talked about having backgrounds in the arts, dance, theater. We have seen Jais, we know Jais, I can see a Jai, I can spot one from twelve hundred feet away. Okay, they're not monsters, but they are—the term gets thrown around way too much, but for me, they're the textbook definition of a narcissist, who thinks that they are god's gift, and that everyone is blessed by being in their presence, and that they are the top dog basically, and everyone else? They're collateral. Maybe they'll be useful. They're not out to necessarily get people but they're definitely out to use people. 

And so showing us that scene… What will always stick with me is Jai's smirk? It wasn't a smile in my opinion. Not a smile of ‘oh, you know, I'm glad that this worked out.’ It was a casual over the shoulder… just a smirk. And then the casualness with which he walked off the screen. The fact that there were no words, there were no dialogue—to me, it just spoke to how casually he viewed what he did. How it wasn't that big of a deal, and he's just going to move on. He's going to move on with his life, he'll probably never think of these people again—and to me it really all comes down to intention. Teh may have done things that would have made him very similar to Jai, but Teh never had the intention to blatantly use people the way that Jai did. And while that doesn't make you a monster, it does make you a shitty human being. That really makes all the difference. And that scene to me was showing us without words Jai's intentions.

NiNi

Whooo, yes, let me tell you all about some of the nonsense that goes on backstage, understage, in the flies… like some of the shit that I have seen? [laughs] 

Susan, now I know you haven't seen I Promised You the Moon, but like I said you're our resident behavioral expert. So everything that you're hearing, what's something that you want to bring forward here?

Susan

Just as an aside, what y’all are saying about these tendencies in the performing arts community? As someone who spent a lot of my life in a community of musicians, sounds familiar. I was already thinking about a former partner of mine who once told me that his gift to the world was going to be his music, and that my gift to the world was going to be how I facilitated him making his music. So, you know, I can relate to some of that stuff. 

So, I was going to say, there's something about Teh that seems contradictory on the surface. And that is, he's clearly an incredibly sensitive person, I mean just look at the crying. He clearly feels a lot, and yet he can act so unfeeling. And what I'm hearing about this other person? This person sounds like someone who doesn't start from the base of perceiving those emotions in the first place. It just doesn't hit them as hard and they feel like they want more, because it takes a lot to, kind of register on your personal scale. So that's going to be my guess about this person. They're not already coming from a place of feeling for other people in a natural way. That's an educated guess.

NiNi

That's a very, very educated I guess. 

1:01:38 - The Ending and Character Development

NiNi

I want to take that and sort of slide into the next idea. One of the things that struck me in the end of the show, particularly in episode 5 in that conversation that Teh and Oh-aew you have when they see each other again at the agency. Teh is talking to Oh about how he's having such a hard time coming up with his thesis play, and Oh is telling Teh, there's so much all around you. And I always tie that back to some of the things that Susan was talking about there that's also manifested in the way that Teh deals with his roommate. 

Teh is, in his mind, rejected by his roommate at the beginning, and he rejects him right back, so he doesn't even realize or notice when his roommate breaks up with his partner. So when he breaks up with Oh-aew in the end, he's hostile at this point to his roommate. He hasn't even tried ever to build a relationship with him. He's not interested in anything he does. And his roommate says to him, ‘well why do you think I wouldn't understand you?’ He realizes that he has not looked outside of himself at all. And that’s something that comes up again in the conversation with Oh-aew. 

I think I rambled myself around a little bit, but I want to start getting into the end of the story and how that plays out, and Teh’s reflection on his own behavior, on how he's been treating people, on the fact that he's not good at paying attention to people [laughs] and that has caused him problems in his life. Shan, I haven't come to you for a little while.

Shan

I actually really love Teh's arc in the final episode. After the big emotional episode, where he makes a big big mistake [laughs] because he's not thinking things through, he gets time: he gets time away from Oh-aew and time to move into a new phase of his life, and time to start having some new experiences, and even time to date somebody else after Oh-aew, and feel the difference in the quality of those relationships and what they do for him. 

We kind of see him start to process, and understand that even though his ambitions are being realized? He is not fulfilled. He doesn't feel happy. He is an actor, he has a tv show, he's doing things he said he wanted to do, and he's dating somebody—his co-star, who is the perfect partner for that, right? She helps his career. They look great together. They have the same ambitions. She's very driven just like him… and he's not into it. He's like, ‘oh this isn't really doing things for me emotionally that I thought it would. Having a partner who is exactly aligned with the things I want to do is maybe not actually going to give me the satisfaction and the fulfillment of my desires that I thought.’ And so, I actually think that's a really important arc for him. And then for him to then see Oh-aew, have all of that activated, have all of those old feelings come back, and realize that he actually wants to fight to get that relationship back. And he's bringing some of what he learned. 

And I mean, you know, he's still the same person. He still has to do everything in the most dramatic way possible. He has to make it a big grand gesture, instead of a more organic attempt to reconnect with Oh-aew. I loved that in the resolution between them, what Oh-aew says is not ‘I trust that this will never happen again,’ or ‘I feel really confident now that we're gonna, like, be great together.’ [laughs] What Oh-aew says is, ‘I understand who you are, and I wanna be with you. And what I'm asking from you is a commitment to, like, not go off and spin out the way that you normally do when shit happens. Because shit is gonna happen again.’ And Teh seems pretty confident about his ability to, like, commit to that. 

I don't believe that Teh is never gonna stray again. I don't. I think he's probably going to end up having feelings for someone else again. It's the way he is. He just gets obsessive about things that draw his attention, and I think that that's probably always going to be the case. And so one of the things that they're going to have to work through is figuring out how that works within the context of the relationship they have, what their boundaries are around that. And that necessitates communication. So that's kind of the commitment that they're trying to make. And the trajectory of that can look different. Oh-aew at this stage in his life wants a monogamous relationship; maybe that will always be the case. And then they'll have to figure out how Teh can control these impulses that he has to make that work. Maybe they're going to learn that if they want to stay together long term, absolute monogamy maybe is not their solution. There are paths before them. But they have to talk to each other. They have to work it out together, and that's the commitment that they're making: that when shit gets hard, they will talk to each other. I really love that; it felt like a very adult resolution. It felt very grounded in… who they are as people and what they can reasonably expect of each other. It just felt so mature. You just don't see that very often in BL. So I really loved it. 

I will say, the Oh-aew side of that arc wasn't quite as strong for me. And I think it's a little bit evident in the way that this conversation has gone, Oh-aew—his characterization is not quite as strong as Teh’s. I don't feel that the writing team had as much of a handle on exactly what they wanted to say with him and about him. So I do think there's a little bit of a missing piece to his part of this story. We saw that post-breakup Oh-aew was kind of thriving on his own, actually. He's doing great. He did very well in school, he's started his career. He's still got great friends. He's still got community around him. He is okay, he's content being single. And we saw that after Teh's first grand gesture, that he rejected him pretty firmly. He was like ‘no, you don't get to do this, this is not the way.’ And then we didn't really see a middle step before he then changed his mind and decided to jump back in both feet with Teh. And it's not that that doesn't feel right? It does, because Oh-aew is always going to forgive Teh, always. He said it himself: ‘Have I ever left you, Teh?’ No, he hasn't and he never will, probably. So it's not that it feels unrealistic, it's just that I wanted him to have a little bit more of an emotional arc there, similar to what we got for Teh. So that's my, like, small quibble with that. But overall I loved the resolution for their relationship; I loved the way they came back together and what the show said about the future in front of them.

NiNi

‘Have I ever left you Teh?’ is probably my favorite line in all of I Promised You The Moon. I want to step to Bookworm here, because I want to talk a little bit about Teh and reflection in the end of the story, and the role of the play. How Teh uses it to reflect and try to reconnect with Oh-aew, and how Oh-aew perceives that.

Bookworm

We’re very clear that Teh is somebody who does not like change. Who keeps things going till it reaches that breaking point. I want to maybe reframe it a little bit, and bring it back to the play. I think Teh tends to let things go, because I think he does not like being in the present. He is constantly either thinking about the future, or he's obsessed with something that has happened in the past. That's why Oh-aew was so pissed at that play, because that is not the conversation that he wanted to have. That is not something that Oh-aew wants to even address at that point, because they have moved past all of that, and there are things that they have to talk about that has happened in the present and at the moment. And Teh does not engage that way, it's just not his character, right? He doesn't do that. 

Then we got to the ending, and Oh-aew has this conversation with Teh about how he just wants to be in his life, and he doesn't know where this is going to go but he just wants to be together. And then Teh does, again, just a chaotic maneuver and posts this Instagram picture, and it's identifiable chaos, right? That's a Teh that we know. But this time he is trying to solve a problem at the present, and that I think is how Teh has reflected. It may not be conscious; I'm pretty sure he has not sat down and thought through all of this. He's just that—as the time moved, he has done this shift within himself. He has turned that chaos somehow into… a tool that he can use to try to engage with the problems that they have to deal with in the present, and not put it into the future so that it becomes such a huge ticking time bomb that just blows up on everybody's face—or just throw everything into the past and link it to some pivotal focal point that just shadows over everything else.

NiNi

Y'all are blowing my mind, and I'm loving this whole experience. Ginny: Shan mentioned not having as clear an understanding of Oh in this final act as she does of Teh, and I feel like you're a kind of an Oh-aew whisperer. So I don't know if you want to lean into your understanding and share with us what you're taking away from Oh in the final act of the story.

Ginny

I definitely see… his arc and his journey is much more subtle, and you have to be watching really closely I think to read some of what's happening. But what I saw especially on my second watch is that—Oh-aew, up until he hears that Teh has broken up with his co-star, he has a very clear story in his mind about the breakup, and about Teh and why it didn't work out with him. And that story started when Oh-aew left acting. He knew that Teh wasn't okay with it, and even after they made up, Teh wasn't fully okay with it. And that degraded their relationship until the point of the Jai incident. Oh-aew was very clear that it was specifically an artistic partner that Teh was falling in love with—and it was that bond, of having feelings for somebody that shared these ambitions was what pulled Teh into Jai's orbit—and knew that he could never compete with that. And so the story I believe he's telling himself is that Oh-aew is never what Teh wanted or needed. Teh thought he did when he thought that Oh was going to be an actor, and along his side. But as soon as Oh moved away from that path, he stopped being the life partner that Teh was looking for. 

One thing that always strikes me at the beginning of episode 5 is how happy Oh is to see Teh in his career success. He smiles when he sees him next to his actress partner on screen, he buys a magazine, and he doesn't seem to carry any bitterness about that. He's genuinely so joyful for Teh and his success. So part of his story is that Teh has gotten what he always wanted. He's got his career and he's got this partner that shares his ambitions which is what he's always wanted and needed—what Oh couldn't be, and the reason they didn't work out. Oh has devalued himself in how he thinks Teh sees him. He does not fully see how important he is to Teh and how much he means to him. When he says, ‘have I ever left you?’ It's very clear that Oh will always be by Teh's side, until that point when he accepts what he believes to be true, which is that he's not what Teh needs. And then he goes to the play… he rejects Teh immediately after the play, but I don't see that as a rejection of the idea of them getting back together, so much as a, ‘this is too much. Why are you throwing this at me right now?’ And then he looks at the messages. That, I think, is when he realized that he himself is what Teh wanted, not the artistic partner. And I think that's part of why he comes back to him.

1:15:23 - Favorite scenes

NiNi

I want to just ask a fun round robin question before we get to the end. What's everybody's favorite scene in I Promised You The Moon? Let's start with Shan.

Shan

I'm gonna go for maximum pain: my favorite scene is Oh-aew confronting Teh after Teh, right in front of his fucking face, [laughs] attempts to get into a relationship with Jai. I have PTSD from that scene to this day! I cannot believe what Teh did in that sequence. The way that he—right in front of Oh!—was making moon eyes at Jai. The way that he went to talk to Jai to try to confirm that their feelings were mutual. The way that after Jai rejected him, he got up on stage to sing a song with Oh and started singing it at Jai! Making weepy eyes at him literally right in front of Oh's fucking face! And then I love that Oh called him on it immediately, hit him so hard with those flowers! [laughs] And I love that he just said, ‘how stupid do you think I am? You're doing this right in front of me.’ 

I just loved how the show did not shy away from Teh’s audacity in that moment, from how disconnected he had become from his reality. It was just the peak of his ability to delude himself and go into his obsessive episodes, and I just thought it was so well done.

NiNi

I think you and I are both fans of the angst and also the drama. Bookworm, what about you?

Bookworm

I'm gonna continue Shan's rage and go into the next most painful scene, which was Teh going to Q's house to talk to Oh-aew, and the conversation they have on the couch. Like I said before, when somebody tries so hard not to cry, or when somebody's trying so hard to not say something that is just dying to get out of them, and they're trying to hold back the words just to save themselves from the pain? Those are my favorite things. When Oh-aew finally breaks help with Teh, and Teh gets up from the couch and walks away… there's a split-second frame where Oh turns back, and you can see the longing in his face. He is devastated and he wants to say so many things. But he just holds it back and he watches Teh walk away. That was such a well choreographed scene, and how the actors performed it, it was just such a delight to watch, and I came close to breaking. I had tears in my eyes and just… choked up in that scene.

NiNi

Mor, what about you?

Mor

I am a ho for well-done angst as well, so in a way I can't believe I'm saying this, but I have to go off about the quiet genius of the aquarium scene. That was possibly the most beautiful parallel I've ever seen in a show, and I see parallels everywhere, I adore them, and it's one that I will never get out of my head. It was like Teh was saying without words, ‘Oh, after all the pain I put you through, after everything it took for us to get here, I am taking us out of this underwater world we were in where we were hiding these feelings and I was terrified to show it to the world. And now? I'm choosing you in front of the world. I don't give a damn who sees us.’ And yet it's in the same sort of environment where he first really let himself feel what he was feeling, that he let himself feel that desire and to show it to Oh. 

That underwater scene in ITSAY was so pivotal for them. To go from that—and that that's the only way that Teh is willing to show him affection, is hidden, underneath the surface of the water, away from the world—to then be in this open aquarium in Bangkok, the biggest city in Thailand and he is kissing him. I get chills! I get chills. It was so well done, and it was done without words. You can't beat it for me, you just can't.

NiNi

Ginny I'm gonna come to you. What's your favorite scene in all of I Promised You The Moon?

Ginny

First I have to stop crying about the aquarium scene, because everything Mor said was true. My favorite scene is in episode 5 when Teh and Oh-aew first see each other at the agency. Coming into that scene the first time, I was really feeling like, ‘I care deeply about both these boys, I want them to be happy, but I don't really care if they get back together, and I think maybe they shouldn't.’ As soon as they saw each other? The gravity of what pulls them together sets in for both of them, and you see the longing that still pulls them together, and I went ‘oh! never mind, I need them together again.’ 

It's the same thing that is still my most vivid impression from ITSAY: the intensity of the love and desire that they have for each other, and how vital that is to both of them. One of the things that really impresses me in I Promised You The Moon is how naturally they play each stage of the relationship. When they're playing partners who have been together for three years, they feel like partners who have been together for three years. It feels lived-in, it feels comfortable, it feels a little bit… stale in the way that things can get if you're not paying attention? But still full of affection; it feels so right for that stage. But as soon as you've had them separated and then seeing each other again? All of that desire comes rushing back. And I love it. It is about the desire but it’s also just about the deep roots of that connection that they share, because they’ve known each other so long and they go so deep in each other’s lives. And the way that that instantly revitalized my personal emotional investment in their relationship was just so powerful.

NiNi

I'm going to hold my scene for when I'm talking to Ben after in the outro, but great, great scenes from everybody. 

We're going to close out with Susan, because I have to ask Susan the very important question. Okay Susan, you 've been sitting here, you've been listening to this entire conversation, and I just want to know: are you going to go and watch I Promised You The Moon now?

Susan

Oh how could I not? I feel like having this conversation, it seems almost like a boost where I would be more at a point watching I Promised You The Moon for the first time… It would be more like having a second viewing for my first viewing. That's one of the reasons I actually, like I said, I like to be spoiled? It tells you where to put your attention. I'm going to definitely be looking in different places, thinking about different things beforehand in a way that I think would be better than if I watched it just cold.

NiNi

Mission accomplished! [laughs] All right guys, we're going to wrap this up here, we could keep talking forever but we gotta go!

1:23:51 Outro

NiNi

Ben, so you were lurking in the background of that recording [laughs]. And unlike me, you actually heard what we said, and now having listened to the edit as well: what are some of your thoughts?

Ben

I gotta be honest. I was not chatting with you like I normally am when we're recording, so I was very drunk while you all were recording [laughs] for two hours! I did not remember the middle of the recording at all! I'm sorry, I was not present.

[both laugh]

NiNi

But you have heard the edit. So.

Ben

Oh, everyone sounded so good! I really liked the conversation you guys had getting into the fact that Teh was always like this. There was this huge pushback when the show was originally airing, that Teh was acting out of character, and that they had somehow misunderstood their own characters and ruined them. But I really liked that the panel was very much about how Teh was always this way. And Jai knew that about him and used that against him. 

I also love that you all hated Jai, that was so fun to listen to again on the recording. I was very conscious for Bookworm going off about Jai, because she hates him so much! [both laugh] I'm also glad that we were able to get Mor on the podcast twice! We do not talk about Mor often in our recordings, but know that they are one of our favorite people, and that they were able to make time to be with us twice is a real gift.

NiNi

I did quite enjoy what we're referring to as the “fuck Jai” portion of the panel [laughs]. I was gratified to find out that Bookworm hates Jai probably just as much as Mor and me. 

[laughs] 

I think one of the things that, listening back to the panel, that I really obviously wanted to get across was the fact that Teh has always been this way. This is how Teh always was. This is how Teh probably, in some ways, ever shall be, and to say otherwise is to basically ignore the Teh of I Told Sunset About You. I think that when it comes to Teh and I Told Sunset About You, people got bogged down in the romance and forgot all the bullshit. And, my god, was Teh full of bullshit. [laughs] So watching Teh’s bullshit continue, and him eventually learn to try to curtail it slightly? That was a delightful journey, the way that I saw it. I quite enjoyed that.

Ben

I really liked Ginny bringing forward the discussion about Oh's friend group, and the queerness of that friend group, because I don't think I grokked it the first time, that any of them other than Q were queer. But having watched some of the scenes after Ginny pointed them out, it's very obvious. And I think that that's really well done, because they're queer for the people who know queer people; they're just Oh’s friends for the people who don't. And I liked that.

NiNi

In the ending, I did a round robin with the gang about everybody's favorite scene—because you know me, I'm a scene bitch. I will always find a favorite scene, whether it's in an episode or in an overall show. I will always want to know what everybody's favorite scene is. I feel like that's better than a personality test. [laughs] 

So what was your favorite scene in I Promised You the Moon?

Ben

Right now, it is… the scene—I believe it's in episode 4?—with Mek, when he talks about how Teh never showed any interest in him. Because he's only just mildly hurt and disappointed in Teh about it, and it caps off, like another episode of Teh just spiraling in his own bullshit again? 

It stands out because Mek was like, ‘bro, we've been here for years and you ain't said shit to me,’ and that's basically Teh. He's so rigid, either people fit into his vision of his life or they don't. And they don't exist if they don't fit into his vision. And it was kind of rude of him to just presume that about his roommate right away, who was clearly trying to make overtures of friendship to him for like two to four years? That scene is currently the one that comes to mind when you ask. 

That or Bas coming back to be like, ‘Are we still talking about this man?’ 

[both laugh]

NiNi

Shade!

Ben

My favorite Billkin and PP scene is probably when they put PP in Oh’s shirt with his heart cut out, and he's watching Teh look at Jai when they're supposed to be singing a song together. And then he beats him with the flowers.

NiNi

I feel like Oh-aew beating Teh with those flowers… it was a pivotal and necessary moment. At the time, it cleared my skin. It watered my crops. [laughs] It fed, nourished, and sustained me. I rewound it several times. I asked Mor to make gifs.

Ben

There's so many good scenes in that show.

NiNi

Can you not pick a favorite? Or does your favorite rotate?

Ben

It rotates. I think what's interesting is, my favorite scenes in I Promised You the Moon are not with Oh and Teh. My favorite scene that PP does from a work standpoint, that I think is one of PP's best, is the audition scene where he's faced with homophobia. And you can see his decision to quit acting happening in real time. Like I thought that was really, really good. 

I also really like the scene where Teh is mean to Khim because she can't make acting work. Because Teh is so wrong in that scene.

NiNi

I also go back and forth a lot. But I think if I had to count an absolute favorite scene—

Ben

It's the Jai kiss! 

[NiNi laughs]

Ben

It's the Jai kiss! Because Oh catches—and he's like ‘that rat bastard!’

[both laugh]

NiNi

It's the Jai kiss for a lot of reasons. The filmmaking in that scene is so impressive. The way that they build the tension of the scene, of you watching Teh make this terrible, horrible mistake, and then intercutting between Oh-aew coming to find him, and him getting closer and closer to Jai, and then him laying one on Jai, and then that long dolly shot of Oh-aew spotting them through the door of the rehearsal room? So you just see Oh-aew’s face. You see it change, and then there's this looong dolly shot that pulls back into the rehearsal room and then you see Jai and Teh making out. The filmmaking is just next-level, like everything about it—the shot selection, the music, the sound, the camera work—perfection. 

So with that said, we've come to the end of our I Told Sunset/I Promised You the Moon third anniversary retrospective. That's it from us, we're about to wrap this up, we'll see you next time. We out! Say bye to the people, Ben.

Ben

Peace!

#podcast #lgbtq #i told sunset about you #i promised you the moon #last twilight in phuket #pp krit #billkin putthipong #the conversation #ben and nini's conversations #on art #fall series #fall 2023 #thai bl #bl series #season 4 #s4e2

[ijustlovefiction]

Cars Universe Chalenge!!!!

(cuz why not)

1. Fav character from Cars

2. Fav character from Planes

3. Fav character from whole universe

4. Your least favorite character from Cars

5.Your least favorite character from Planes

6.Character you hate the most

7. Character that you kin the most (character, that you see yourself in them/you can relate to them)

8. Characters that you wants as friends

9. Fav character(s)?

10. Things that you like the most in you fav character(s)

11. Thing that you find out, why you kin this character (if you have character that you kin)

12. Fav song(s)?

13.Fav moments from Cars

14. Fav moments from Planes

15. Fav racer?

16. Lightning or Dusty?

17.The saddest moment in whole franchise?

18. Favorite Cars on the Road episode?

19. Fav ship?

20. Fav duo/trio?

21. Cars, Cars 2 or Cars 3?

22. Planes or Planes or Fire and Rescue?

23. Fav Cars Toons?

24. Fav Mater's Tall Tales?

25. Song that you listen the most rarely?

26. Fav video game?

27. Fav soundtrack (music without words)?

28. Best antagonist in whole franchise?

29. Which machine you would be in Cars Universe?

30. Fav girl?

31.Place from Cars Universe you really want to visit?

32. Thing from Cars Universe you want to have?

33. Radiator Springs or Propwash Junction?

34. Do you want to ride a WHOLE road 66 with all atractions?

35. Character that shows you data fanbase MBTI personality

36.Song (not from Cars), that reminds you your fav character(s)

37. Best agent?

38. Best lemon?

39. You want a "Boats" movie?

40. What do you want to see in Cars on the Road season 2?

41.The character you think they would have the same style like you (if they would be a human)

42.Luigi or Guido?

43.Character form Radiator Springs that you want have as roommate?

44. How much you miss Doc?

45.Character that you think they would be the most suportive to you

46.The worst Cars/Planes mockbuster? (Lucky you, who doesn't watch it)

47.Your favorite fanarts (if you don't have it, you don't have to do this)

48.Fav voice actors from Cars Universe?

49. The moment in whole franchise that made you angry

50. Best trailer?

51. Character from Radiator Springs that you would have least good relationship

52.Ideas for next movie?

53. Fav easter egg in whole franchise?

54.Best deleted scene?

55. What would you say to younger version of you, when you see that you are playing with toys from Cars/Planes?

56.With which movie/game idk and Cars Universe you want to see a crossover? (If you have idea, ofc)

57. Thing that you hate in fandom

58. Cars or Planes?

@penname-artist @leiasky (you two must do it, haha)

#cars #cars fandom #cars universe #planes #planes fire and rescue #disney planes #disney #pixar #pixar cars #everyone can do it <3 #i was bored #how was your day

[dont-get-snippy]

Every Rebels Parallel and Callback in Ahsoka(Part I)

Episode 1: Master and Apprentice

0:55 - Thrawn is mentioned in the title crawl

4:16 and 4:55 - “You are no jedi” and “we are no jedi” we all know what that is

6:45 - not exactly Rebels but Ahsoka’s theme from the Clone Wars is played with the title card

17:10 - Hera!

18:53 - Hera mentions the Battle of Lothal

19:18 - Hera mentions Ezra

20:12 - Hera and Ahsoka indirectly mention Sabine

20:40 - Lothal is shown

20:54 - Ryder Azadi references the Battle of Lothal and Ezra’s sacrifice

21:01 - Ryder shows the monument from the Rebels finale

21:59 - Ryder introduces Jai Kell, one of Ezra’s friends from the Imperial Academy in season 1 of Rebels

24:04 - Sabine has a loth cat painted on her helmet

25:09 - we see the watchtower from season 1 of Rebels

25:21 - Sabine has a pet loth cat

25: 56 - we see Sabine’s armor

26:26 - Sabine finds the holo disc, echoing when she found on at Ezra’s old house in Rebels 1x08, Empire Day

26:38 - Ezra!!

28:10 - Morgan mentions the Nightsisters

30:20 - Sabine hears Ezra’s message from the Rebels Finale

30:46 - looks exactly like the beginning and the epilogue scene from Rebels

31:24 - “not everyone” is a reference to kanan and ezra, who obviously weren’t at the ceremony

32:04 - Ahsoka’s theme again

33:11 - Sabine has Chopper and a loth cat painted on her bed

34:01 - Sabine makes a very indirect reference to the Rebels episode “Visions and Voices,” in which she gets possessed by a Nightsister spirit

(side note - ahsoka’s cup looks like a lego mug without the handle)

37:34 - Shin’s lightsaber has the same ring detail as Kanan’s

43:55 - once again not rebels but the three figures are the Mortis gods, who have close ties to Ahsoka

46:50 - this whole scene is similar to the Rebels season 3 finale, when Thrawn discovers Kallus

47:42 - Sabine grabs Ezra’s lightsaber

And that’s it! Let me know if I missed anything!

#ahsoka #ahsoka tano #ahsoka series #star wars #star wars rebels #parallels

[naddpod-encounter-tourney]

Option 1:

Enemy: Thiala

Episodes: C1 E100: Heart of the World

Time: (ads) 58:56-2:41:30 (*used the ads version because it's two episodes on patreon so it wouldn't be a great timestamp)

Finish: Moonshine

Notes: Hardwon's insane first 2 rounds (almost 600 damage! and he does miss!!). Moonshine counterspells and then uses Chill Touch to make sure all of Hardwon's damage can stick. The flashback scenes that do psychic damage and enlighten the audience at the last minute on characters we hadn't seen a lot of. Bev goes Elder Champion and casts revivify as a bonus action. The terrain moves to in front of the Heart of the World where Melora and Telaine are holding the world together. Ulfgar and Alanis are used for their power by Thiala, and Galad is fucking back and Thiala's bestie. Erlin is freed by Handy Andy. "I'm gonna fucking eat her."

Propaganda: (anonymous) Murph's flashbacks to Elias Sr., Ol' Cobb, and the Legendary Heroes? Chef's kiss. Also riding into battle on flying elephants.

Option 2:

Enemy: 12ft Elven Bard

Episode: C1 E71: The Gladeholm Wizard Tournament

Time: 1:47:04-2:08:54

Finish: Hardwon (gets her to switch songs)

Notes: Truly so much furniture gets thrown at everyone. Moonshine enhances everyone's abilities so they can have some help and they still get thrown everywhere. Hardwon is choked by a rug. 2 PCs have high charisma, and are completely unable to pass a performance check. Hardwon pulls out the solo cup and accomplishes the task.

Propaganda: (anonymous) I love that it's different from other naddpod encounters. It's unique that it wasn't just a combat but did have an 'enemy' NPC. I think it was cool how it fucked with movement and positioning and stuff. I like it

#naddpod #not another dnd podcast #bahumia #naddpod encounter tournament #round 2

[thefandom-casserole]

Episode 47 Notes-

- I’m so scared

- Like. Almost more scared than for last episode

- Ahhhhhh

- Hermie my beloved I haven’t stopped thinking about you <333

- (Seriously I’ve been basically exclusively rping you. Channel seven has been wild man)

- Anyways

- Ahhhhhh

- THE INTRO

- OMG

- THEYRE TALKING AHOUT SCAM AND NORMAL AOSNDHAJSBHSKAJSJDJDHDUIEJE

- Im vibrating this is insane

- I love their intros so much

- I LOVE THE PODCAST DUNGEONS AND DRAGONS SO MUCHHHHHH

- Hehe I remember that from last season

- Taylor’s Teen Fact: Taylor’s first fight was in fourth grade because he was getting bullied (by Steve) over his collectible card game so he kicked the guy in the nards. That’s how he got into karate

- Lincoln’s Teen Fact: The first fight and lie between Linc and his parents was when he did a “hunger strike” until they let him go to school (but he actually was eating)

- Will messing up Normal’s intro was way too funny to me

- Normal’s Teen Fact: Normal does a tarot card reading everyday before getting started

- He’s like Mercedes!!!!!!!!!

- I cannot believe that he pulled the reversed Lovers holy shit

- Scary Teen Fact: Scary plays the piano. Because if the letters are rearranged it spells pain-o

- Anthony Fact: They haven’t thrown to their sponsors very often and so that might happen this episode

- Nevermind now he’s not gonna do it 😭

- IF THEY DONT TELL NORMAL ILL LOSE MY KIND

- The way Scary’s telling Linc to not touch Hermie <3333333333

- No hate to Linc lots of love to Scary though

- TWO DEATH FAILS FROM PUNCHING HIM INT HE JUTS IM CRYING

- OH THANK GOD FOR SCARY

- “Where’s Hermie” I can’t I can’t I can’t I can’t

- SCARY BEING SUPER THERE ABOUT HERMIE BECAUSE PF TERRY

- The way I started tearing up when they started to pick up Hemrie 💀

- God this is not boding well for the rest of the episode

- LINC NO WE KNOW YOU DIDNT LIKE EHRMKE THIS ISNT COOL AHHH

- Again no hate to Linc he’s a kid

- “We’ll fix them”

- SLAY NORMAL

- WHOO

- “LEAVE”

- Once mischief twins always mischief twins (let’s Hotwire a car together BROTHERRR)

- ANOTHER NAT ONE

- I’m pretty sure I missed the entire thing with Taylor and the gun 😭 I don’t care enough to rewind

- “Lincoln stares at yet more blood he has created and slowly sinks back down” LINCOLN BABY

- ANOTHER NAT ONE

- Ahhhhhhhhhhh this spellll

- NO THE SOELL DIDNT WORK

- ANKRHER NAT ONE HOLY SJIR

- Henry yayyyyyyyy

- THE SPONSOR

- THAT WAS PERFECT

- THAT WAS SO FUCKING PERFECT

- Sooo code purple happened as they were kids okay okay

- IS THAT FUCKING BARRY

- OR SCAM LIKELY????!!!

- Henry looks surprisingly young thanks to a vegan lifestyle and butthole sunning!!!!

- Henry how I’ve missed you!!!!!!!!!

- BARRY YOU SHOULD BE DESD FUCK YOU

- Mercedes is dead 😞

- NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

- HES GOOF MATTER NOOOO

- Very Achilles-Patroclus esc oh god

- This is going to either be Willy or Scam oh boy oh no

- Remember when we thought Normal hiding in his mascot outfit was bad??

- Oh good it’s Scam

- He left Scary oh noooo

- The fucking Goofs Realm nauseates me Jesus

- “I’m here when it’s sad I’m here when it’s fun did someone do something to my son” that was pretty good ngl

- I’m going to sob holy shit

- Scam is actually sad omg

- Bits never die is basically what he said omg

- Holy shit holy shit holy shit scam ong omg omg ong

- GO FUCKING NORMAL PUNCH HIM

- Scam is being all depresso like the other adults holy shit 😭

- “You don’t fucking come near him”

- FUCK YEAH MULTI PRONOUNS DOOOD

- “You feel like home” AHHHH OAKSSSSSSSS

- I’m going to sob

- [will sobbing] “OUR SPONSOR AURA FRAMES!!!”

- Yayyyyy this our episode 61. Hm or maybe when Terry Jr. died

- Half of it is burnt like two face!! Like Hermie!!!!!!!!!!!!!

- “I’m really proud of you kiddo” sobbing sobbing sobbing

- The Shade Witch I love this 😭

- I was sobbing and now I’m laughing

- This is so funny

- This whole scene is hilarious

- The sun is a metaphor for something

- “Just this once… just this once… Chaperal on three”

- I’m sobbing I’m sobbing omg ong omg

- The Shade Witch is my favorite character move aside Paeden (I’m joking I’m joking)

- SCARY IM SOBBING

- Is the rogue card still in action???

- FUCK YOU BARRRRRRY

- The same man twice!!!!!!!

- DO WE GET THE VOICES PLEASE GUVE US GHE VOICES

- Nevermindddddd

- OMG THEYRE LEARNIBG TO SHOOT

- That’s insane

- Did Normal cause Code Purple…?

- What did Normal do!?

- Another fucking cliffhanger 😭

- I genuinely think I’m going to be sick ✌️

#dndads spoilers #dndads #dndads s2

[nobodysdaydreams]

Wolf359 Timeline Reference Post (And Some Updates Before I Continue My Reactions).

Well gang I finished season 1 and something tells me the adventure is only just beginning. But before I get started, I just wanted to give a well-deserved shoutout to @commsroom for helping me understand the Wolf359 timeline, since I almost missed the season 1 end credits scene at the end of episode 5, and I listened to the 1st mini episode out of order. But I think I got the official timeline down now, which I've listed below. I'm also tagging this post "#Wolf359 Timeline" to use as a reference if anyone wants it.

Please let me know if there are any errors, but no spoilers please since I've only listened to Season 1 at the time of this post. If you would like to read those reactions and tune into the rest of my Wolf359 reactions, you can find them on my blog under the hashtag "#Bods Wolf359 Reactions".

Season 1: Episodes 1-7 (Episode 5 contains a post credits scene), Mini Episode 1, Episodes 8-13

Season 2: Episodes 14-22, Mini Episode 2, Episodes 23-24, Mini Episode 3, Episodes 25-26, Live Show (watch on youtube here), Episodes 27-28

Season 3: Episodes 29-31, Mini Episode 4, Episodes 32-34, Mini Episode 5, Episodes 35-37 (Episode 37 contains a post credits scene), Mini Episodes 6-13, Episodes 38-46 (Episode 43 contains a post credits scene)

Special Episode: Change of Mind. Watch before Season 4.

Season 4: Episode 47, Mini Episode 14, Episodes 48-53, Episodes 54-60*, Special Episode: Volte Face**, Episode 61

*For the rest of season 4, mini episodes occur in between each episode until the end of the show, but occur at various places in the timeline, so they can also be saved until the end. There are three of these mini episodes, which are unnumbered. Additionally, there are seven "Mission Mishap" episodes which can be listened to as side stories.

**There's also another special episode called "Volte Face" which can be listened to before the finale of season 4, but occurs at a different point in the timeline.

#Wolf359 Timeline #Bods Wolf359 Reactions #Wolf359 #w359

[wen-kexing-apologist]

Dead Friend Forever: Episode 10- Squicks and Triggers

Another episode, another busy weekend so apologies for only getting to this now, but here are the squicks and triggers for Episode 10. Any blue colored time stamps are plot relevant moments and any red colored time stamps are any potential seizure triggers I was able to catch (I didn't see any in here, but it is totally possible I missed them). If there is a trigger or squick that will prevent you from watching a plot relevant moment, feel free to reach out to me via DM or ask and I will tell you what happened during that time stamp :) and if there is anyone who is relying on these posts before they watch an episode, please let me know and I will be sure to tag you or otherwise DM you the link when I post it so you don't miss it!

Episodes 1-8 || Episode 9

Episode 10

00:10-01:11- Recap

01:11-01:15- image of dead body, shirt entirely soaked with blood 

01:17-2:32 Characters threatened at gunpoint, blood on character’s face, and dead bloody body visible in background throughout the scene

2:32-03:01 - Intro

05:48-06:00- creepy masked figure and fake blood

06:14-6:58- creepy masked figure in pursuit of character running through the woods, creepy smile on character’s face, character impaled and spits blood.

07:34-07:37- creepy masked figure

07:45- 08:09- character in intense emotional distress

08:46-08:53- character drugged

10:28-10:47- creepy mask

14:33-14:35- sex between adult and minor

16:36-18:08- character with bloody face visible and characters threatened with gun throughout scene

18:26-18:46- jump scare and character making threats of violence

22:41-24:27- character with bloody face, characters threatened with gun throughout (gun goes away at 24:00)

24:49-25:12 character with bloody face visible throughout

25:29-29:32- close up of character with bloody face 

25:43-26:23 character with bloody face visible throughout

26:24-28:50 characters threatened with gun, including a character captured and threatened with a gun to the head, hallucinations of creepy masked figure (starting at 27:38-28:50)

28:57-29:52:- character shot and collapses (28:57-29:15), blood visible, characters threatened with gun, including gun to head 

31:10-31:30- character beaten

31:35-31:42- presumed corpse of very battered character is visible 

31:51-31:54- presumed corpse of very battered character is visible 

32:00-32:06- presumed corpse of very battered character is visible 

32:28-35:10 character with bloody face visible and character’s threatened with gun throughout scene 

35:10-35:40- preview for next week

#dead friend forever #dff #dff the series #dead friend forever the series #dead friend forever squicks and triggers #dead friend forever episode 10 #dff episode 10 #dead friend forever ep 10 #dff ep 10

[thetasteofsunshineonyourtongue]

ID: Seven gifs of the events of Skyjacks episodes 46 and 47.

Gif one is of Gable standing on the deck of the Uhuru, their braided hair blowing in the wind. They are looking at the viewer resolutely and slightly smiling. They are wearing a coat over breeches and a shirt that is open, exposing their chest. The sky is overcast and the air is misty. There are trees and hills in the background. There are words above them that say, “It was a moment of peace. We locked eyes on accident. I met you when I was a weapon. My name is Gable, I am remembering, and I can no longer run alone.”

Gif two is of young William in an alley, looking at the eye of Yuriel in front of him. He is illuminated by sparks and the glowing gold of the eye that is watching him back. Like a breath, the rest of Yuriel’s eyes and wings fade in and out of view, glowing bright white. 

Gif three is of William as a young adult, in the middle of stepping back, his neck bruised. He is holding a wheellock, the 16th century predecessor to the gun, and his other hand is raised in fear, having dropped the lantern he was holding in the sand. Gable is half-laying in front of him, nude and soaking wet, their back to the viewer and most of their body obscured by their hair. The light of the broken candle in the lantern flickers and dances.

Gif four is of Travis Matagot, his arms swept out and his mouth open in declaration, standing in front of an open door. He is holding his hat in one hand, a bag and wheellock in a holster at his belt. Gable and the nervous hunter are sitting at a table before him, with Gable’s face turned toward him, their arms resting on the table. You can only see the hands of the hunter resting on the edge of the table. There are fireflies in the room that flicker gently.

Gif five is of Gable and Travis Matagot, as a snake. Travis has his tongue sticking out of his mouth and his tail is swinging back and forth. He is sitting in a barred windowsill looking down on Gable, slumped in their stone cell. Gable looks dejected and disheveled. Their hair is obscuring most of their face, their stockings are uneven, and one of their shoes is missing it’s tie. It is dark outside, and they are illuminated by moonlight alone. 

Gif six is of Gable and Travis Matagot sitting at a table in a tavern. Gable is wearing fine, clean clothes, their hair done in a long braid down their back. They are facing Travis with their back to the viewer. Across from them is Travis, lacking a coat, waistcoat, or cravat, wearing a simple yellowed shirt that sitting uneven on his shoulders. His breeches are missing a buckle, he’s not wearing shoes, and his stockings are are dirty. His hair is loose, lank and unkempt, and he looks unshaven. He’s looking at Gable with his eyebrows set resolutely and his mouth open, his arms resting on the table, left hand cut and bloody. Out of focus in the background, two waiters whisper to each other while looking at Gable and Travis. The firelight from the hearth illuminates the scene and flickers and dances over the room.

Gif seven is of Travis Matagot standing on the deck of the Uhuru, his hair tied back with a yellow ribbon and blowing in the wind. He is looking at the viewer resolutely and slightly smiling. He’s wearing a  waistcoat with a coat, with a  cravat tied at his neck and pearls dangling from his ears. The waistcoat and coat have matching green vines and leaves embroidered on them. The sky is overcast and the air is misty. There are trees and hills in the background. There are words above him that say, “It was a moment of opportunity. We locked eyes as I climbed aboard the ship. My name is Travis Matagot, I am a skyjack, and I can no longer run alone.” End ID.

I can no longer run alone

#skyjacks #campaign skyjacks #campaign pod #travis matagot #gable skyjacks #skyjacks 46 + 47 project #skyjacks fanart #my art #william skyjacks #yuriel skyjacks #trable #ITS DONE!!! #i cant believe it #im honestly so proud of myself i dont think ive ever done an art project as big as this before #also i dont think ive dabbled in animation more complicated that two or three frames #the fact that one of these has like fifteen fully colored and highlighted frames??? im so proud of meeeeeeeeeeee