yk what, fuck it.
Happy disability pride month to people with Pyromania or Kleptomania.
Happy disability pride month to anyone with impulse control disorders.
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who have spent time in prison, jail and juvenile detention centres.
Happy disability pride month to pyromaniacs who have been kicked out of every school.
Happy disability pride month to kleptomaniacs who aren’t allowed to go to stores.
Happy disability pride month to people with Intermittent Explosive Disorder who know a court room and police car better then their own house.
Happy disability pride month to people with Conduct Disorder who are afraid that one day they will hurt their family and who get treated like they are insane, crazy and dangerous.
Happy disability pride month to anyone with an impulse control disorder who has been dropped by therapists over and over again, who are revolving door psychiatric patients, who are adults left to deal with this alone, who are young people with parents who don’t understand.
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who have developed addictions to deal with the guilt.
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who are actively trying to fix things.
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who have given up and have decided to spend the rest of their life in psych wards, their bed or a jail cell.
Happy disability pride month to people who are undiagnosed but know that they have a disorder, happy disability pride month to people who are undiagnosed who have no idea what is happening to them or why they do the things they do.
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who have violent outbursts.
Happy disability pride month to kleptomaniacs and pyromaniacs who are sick of having their disorder romanticised and misused by people who claim that they are “cool” or “rebel against the system”
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who lock themselves in their houses and don’t participate in society out of fear of hurting someone or committing a crime.
Happy disability pride month to people with impulse control disorders who consider themselves disabled
Happy July to people with impulse control disorders who don’t.
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Heya, idk if this is a valid question or is really dumb, but like, does the age at which ASPD behavior starts to show have to be strictly 15?
I have been wondering whether I should get officially diagnosed, since the media and general societal representation of it doesn’t seem as reflecting of me (with exception of a few) but I do relate extremely closely to most of the diagnosing criteria. Although??? The physical aggression thing?? Like I have those impulses and plenty of them, but I just don’t follow through with most because of convenience. That sort of thing is one of the main things that makes me doubt whether I do actually have it. (Same with impulsive behaviors etc)
But my main point/ask is the age thing. As a very young child I was pretty sweet? Ig? Like I wasn’t an aggressive child, rather pretty passive. As far as I recall, my symptoms started when I was about 15-16, when I was starting to process that mine was a traumatic situation? and earlier than that I was just an edgy teen, I guess? I sure had some of the symptons way earlier, but the main ones/ the ones that I feel are more prominent in me didn’t show up until a bit later? I’m not sure. So my question is, does it mean it can’t be ASPD?
Also your page is lifesaving. Thanks man.
Note: due to the way copy and pasting criteria works on tumblr, this post will be written exclusively in plain text, as copying and pasting it all over again would take forever, but I want this post to be accessible still.
I haaaate the way the DSM phrases criteria. Absolutely no worries, it is confusing as heck and you wouldn't be the first person at all to ask about this.
So, the symptoms of Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder (DSM criteria below) need to show by or before the age of 15. (I do not know if Intermittent Explosive Disorder satisfies this criteria, but it very well may.) That means they may start when you're a toddler, or they may start when you're 14.5. Anywhere in there, you have to qualify for one of those two disorders, but you also do not have to have been diagnosed with them.
Also, having had been an "edgy teen" definitely could have been those symptoms showing themselves. The reason ASPD can't be diagnosed before 18 is because teenage edginess could either be symptoms or be normal, and the only real way to tell is if it continues past teenage and into adulthood.
The diagnostic criteria of Oppostional Defiant Disorder is as follows, quoted from the DSM-V TR:
A. A pattern of angry/iritable mood, argumentative/defiant behavior, or vindictiveness lasting at least 6 months as evidenced by at least four symptoms from any of the following categories, and exhibited during interaction with at least one individual who is not a sibling.
Angry/lrritable Mood
1. Often loses temper
2. Is often touchy or easily annoyed
3. Is often angry and resentful.
Argumentative/Defiant Behavior
4. Often argues with authority figures or, for children and adolescents, with adults.
5. Often actively defies or refuses to comply with requests from authority figures or with rules
6. Often deliberately annoys others
7. Often blames others for his or her mistakes or misbehavior.
Vindictiveness
8. Has been spiteful or vindictive at least twice within the past 6 months
Note: The persistence and frequency of these behaviors should be used to distinguish a behavior that is within normal limits from a behavior that is symptomatic. For children younger than 5 years, the behavior should occur on most days for a period of at least 6 months unless otherwise noted (Criterion A8). For individuals 5 years or older, the behavior should occur at least once per week for at least 6 months, unless otherwise noted (Criterion A8). While these frequency criteria provide guidance on a minimal level of frequency to define symptoms, other factors should also be considered, such as whether the frequency and intensity of the behaviors are outside a range that is normative for the individual's developmental level, gender, and culture.
B. The disturbance in behavior is associated with distress in the individual or others in his or her immediate social context (e.g., family, peer group, work colleagues), or it impacts negatively on social, educational, occupational, or other important areas of functioning
C. The behaviors do not occur exclusively during the course of a psychotic substance use, depressive, or bipolar disorder. Also, the criteria are not met for disruptive mood dysregulation disorder.
[End quote]
Conduct disorder's criteria more clearly shows the lead-in to ASPD.
The diagnostic criteria for Conduct Disorder is as follows, quoted from the DSM-V TR:
A. A repetitive and persistent pattern of behavior in which the basic rights of others or major age-appropriate societal norms or rules are violated, as manifested by the presence of at least three of the following 15 criteria in the past 12 months from any of the categories below, with at least one criterion present in the past 6 months:
Aggression to People and Animals
1. Often bullies, threatens, or intimidates others.
2. Often initiates physical fights.
3. Has used a weapon that can cause serious physical harm to others (e.g., a bat, brick, broken bottle, knife, gun)
4. Has been physically cruel to people
5. Has been physically cruel to animals
6. Has stolen while confronting a victim (e.g., mugging, purse snatching, extortion, armed robbery)
7. Has forced someone into sexual activity
Destruction of Property
8. Has deliberately engaged in fire setting with the intention of causing serious damage.
9. Has deliberately destroyed others' property (other than by fire setting).
Deceitfulness or Theft
10. Has broken into someone else's house, building, or car.
11. Often lies to obtain goods or favors or to avoid obligations (i.e., "cons' others).
12. Has stolen items of nontrivial value without confronting a victim (e.g. shoplifting, but without breaking and entering; forgery)
Serious Violations of Rules
13. Often stays out at night despite parental prohibitions, beginning before age 13 years.
14. Has run away from home overnight at least twice while living in the parental or parental surrogate home, or once without returning for a lengthy period
15. Is often truant from school, beginning before age 13 years
B. The disturbance in behavior causes clinically significant impairment in social, academic, or occupational functioning
C. If the individual is age 18 years or older, criteria are not met for antisocial personality disorder.
[Skipping a bit of the quote which specifies codes for the various ages CD can present. It is worth noting that these are *not* criteria, they are specifications to be noted in the file of the person being diagnosed with conduct disorder to accurately describe their experience. As you'll see, these specifications are flags as to whether a child/teen with conduct disorder should be evaluated for ASPD upon reaching adulthood.]
Specify if:
With limited prosocial emotions: To qualify for this specifier, an individual must have displayed at least two of the following characteristics persistently over at least 12 months and in multiple relationships and settings. These characteristics reflect the individual's typical pattern of interpersonal and emotional functioning over this period and not just occasional occurrences in some situations. Thus, to assess the criteria for the specifier, multiple information sources are necessary. In addition to the individual's self-report, it is necessary to consider reports by others who have known the individual for extended periods of time (e.g., parents, teachers, co-workers, extended family members, peers).
Lack of remorse or guilt: Does not feel bad or guilty when he or she does something wrong (exclude remorse when expressed only when caught and/or facing punishment). The individual shows a general lack of concern about the negative consequences of his or her actions. For example, the individual is not remorseful after hurting someone or does not care about the consequences of breaking rules.
Callous-lack of empathy: Disregards and is unconcerned about the feelings of others. The individual is described as cold and uncaring. The individual appears more concerned about the effects of his or her actions on himself or herself, rather than their effects on others, even when they result in substantial harm to others.
Unconcerned about performance: Does not show concern about poor/problematic performance at school, at work, or in other important activities. The individual does not put forth the effort necessary to perform well, even when expectations are clear, and typically blames others for his or her poor performance.
Shallow or deficient affect: Does not express feelings or show emotions to others, except in ways that seem shallow, insincere, or superficial (e.g. actions contradict the emotion displayed; can turn emotions "on" or "off" quickly) or when emotional expressions are used for gain (e.g., emotions displayed to manipulate or intimidate others).
Specify current severity:
Mild: Few if any conduct problems in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, and conduct problems cause relatively minor harm to others (e.g., lying, truancy, staying out after dark without permission, other rule breaking)
Moderate: The number of conduct problems and the effect on others are intermediate between those specified in "mild" and those in "severe" (e.g. stealing without confronting a victim, vandalism)
Severe: Many conduct problems in excess of those required to make the diagnosis are present, or conduct problems cause considerable harm to others (e.g., forced sex, physical cruelty, use of a weapon, stealing while confronting a victim, breaking and entering).
[End of Quote]
As you can see, the criteria required before age 15 is not as intense as many professionals describe it. Remember that you are only required to have shown 3 out of the total 15 criteria in there. There is even a whole specifier for Conduct Disorder that is mild and only includes things like lying, basic rule-breaking, and/or staying out past curfew.
Acts of physical aggression are not actually required for ASPD at all, it's just that many prosocials see that being one of the possible symptoms and fixate on it, thus pushing everyone with ASPD into the box of physical aggresion. You absolutely can have ASPD and never act on any violent thoughts or urges.
I was also a very sweet and passive child, developing most of my externalized ASPD symptoms (rule breaking, disrespectful behavior/actions, challenging authority, etc) around age 13. However, the internal symptoms were there for me much younger - easily bored with poor handling of boredom, lack of empathetic reactions, difficulty apologizing/showing remorse due to not really feeling it, becoming very angry but not showing it, resulting for me in self destructive behaviors like cheek biting or controlled destructive behaviors like breaking something that wouldn't be missed (pencils and pens mostly for me).
Regardless of what symptoms were shown when, symptoms are still symptoms, and if you had enough for Conduct Disorder or Oppositional Defiant Disorder before your 16th birthday, you are well within possibility of having ASPD. Keep in mind that the lying, manipulation, etc that can qualify for Conduct Disorder doesn't have to be grandiose or destructive except where it is explicitly stated in the criteria that it does (such as fire setting only counting for the destruction of property criteria if you meant to damage something with said fire).
It's so easy to count yourself out of ASPD because you don't fit the stereotypes or public perception of ASPD, but I assure you that there are many, many ways something as complex as a personality disorder can show itself.
It is absolutely a great thing, however, that you are covering your bases and making sure to do the research to see if this is what you have. That is the basis of an informed self-dx, should you come to the conclusion that you have ASPD.
Now, as for actually getting diagnosed, your mileage may vary with professionals. Many have bias against pwASPD ingrained into their practice, and won't diagnose you with it even though you have it if you aren't/weren't violent, law-breaking, or if they just think you "seem far too kind to have ASPD" (a real quote a former professional said to me a few months before I was diagnosed by my long-time psychiatrist). This doesn't mean you don't have ASPD. If they can't give you other explanations that make sense, and if their reasons for denying you that diagnosis are based in stigma or anything other than actual criteria, then you are well within your rights to continue being self-dx.
A professional should be able to explain, using criteria, why you don't have a disorder you think you may have. If they're doing their job, they should be willing to explain to you what their reasons are and point you in the direction they think may be causing the symptoms. And no, "just acting like a teenager" isn't good enough if enough symptoms have persisted into adulthood for you to meet the criteria for ASPD.
I hope this helps, apologies for it being so long.
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How ASPD Spaces may influence minors with CD
This post will only contain my personal opinion and experience. It does not reflect or represent the opinion of every single person with ASPD, but may likewise be relatable for people who do not have it!
Please keep in mind that this is merely an education piece and seeks to highlight certain experiences & things one should maybe pay attention to. It is not a manual to act after, nor does it have the intention to exclude minors with CD from ASPD spaces!
Abbreviations:
ASPD = Antisocial Personality Disorder
CD = Conduct Disorder
ASPD spaces exist on most social media platforms in some sort of way. This may include textposts on tumblr, pictures and reels on instagram, short videos on tiktok, servers on discord and other things.
In a lot of these spaces you will find adults educating about their condition, sharing their daily life, connecting with each other, or advocating against the stigma.
What you will also find in these spaces usually, are minors with conduct disorder. Which makes sense, since the presence of conduct disorder typa behaviour prior to the age of 15, is a diagnostic requirement for ASPD! About 20-40% (different sources have different numbers) of people with CD later go on and develop ASPD and often those people have already been recognized with "callous-unemotional traits" or "a lack of prosocial emotions" and the like.
These minors with CD may turn towards the ASPD spaces for multiple reasons:
• The similarity in experience creating a sense of community & feeling less alone
• Some advice, ressources and the like are applicable to both CD and ASPD
• Wanting advice on how to proceed towards an ASPD diagnosis once they're old enough/whether they should do that in the first place
• Believing that this is inevitably going to be their reality & community, thus wanting to be there as early as possible
• etc.
The fact that minors with CD frequent ASPD spaces is not inherently a problem, nor do I think that they should stop doing that entirely! I do have a few concerns though, as I technically speaking was a minor with CD in ASPD spaces once and would like to point some things out, that I think are important to look out for:
1. Not every ASPDer that posts their experience, is recovery oriented and should be used as a "role model". There are a lot of people in this community that are strictly anti recovery and will promote harmful narratives and behaviours. While everyone obviously (mostly) gets to post whatever they want, since the internet is a pretty free place, especially minors with CD (tho this also goes for adults with ASPD and everyone else tbh) should make sure to be careful with their content consumption! The "wrong" role models can be really harmful for your own journey, as they may promote harmful behaviour and thus may intensify your symptoms!
2. On that same note, spending a lot of time around a specific group of people, may cause you to subconciously mirror their behaviour. This means that you may (knowingly or not) try to be more like said people/group, may suppress your actual self & variation of traits and try to conform to what you see, so you can be a part of it. Its an entirely normal human mechanism, but can be quite detrimental to your mental health if you're not careful. As a minor with CD in ASPD spaces, this means that you gotta be careful that you do not get roped into behaviours or movements, that would be detrimental. Spotting this isn't always easy, so caution is important!
3. The presence of the "CD prior to the age of 15" criteria point also leads to some people believing that everyone with conduct disorder inherently develops ASPD, which is not true! Some people go on and develop other PDs, some simply stay with conduct disorder and again others recover from their CD without developing anything else, which is probably the ideal case. Early intervention, intervention in teenage years and the like can prevent you from ever developing ASPD! And this may be a controversial opinion, but: that will only work if you haven't gotten attached to the idea of having ASPD yet. Intervention only works if you want it to and if you are deadset on believing you'll have ASPD anyways, the intervention may fail and you may indeed end up developing it. You have to be careful that being in these spaces early, does not cause you to give up your chances.
To sum it up: ASPD spaces can negatively influence minors with CD. Being in these spaces early and especially being around the "wrong" voices early can compromise your recovery and can be a reason you end up going into this direction with your behaviour. The teenage years are an important developmental stage and having the "right" voices teach you emotional skills & social behaviour can be the thing that prevents you from ever having to suffer with a PD.
So please keep that in mind! Be careful which ASPDers you look up to, be careful what behaviour you promote, be careful what you think is going to be your "inevitable future". These spaces hold power and they especially hold power over those who may not have anywhere else to really turn to & feel understood by.
And just to clarify it again:
• I am not saying that you can't be in those spaces if you're a minor with CD and I am not saying that its always harmful! I am just saying that the people you surround yourself with, the content you consume and the things you get exposed to, can have an influence on the way you develop & your recovery.
• I am also not saying that ASPDers who aren't recovery oriented have no right to exist in these spaces! What you post and where you are is your own decision, I can't & don't want to dictate that. I simply think that especially minors with CD need to be aware of what they consume and what effects that may have on them.
• Recovery in this case is btw. defined as "working on managing symptoms/traits" and "harm reduction". I am not referring to a total absence of symptoms/traits, or a cure or whatever. So anti recovery refers to people who promote harm and have no interest in minimizing the damage they do & sometimes also the ones who use it as an excuse instead of an explanation.
All that being said, there are of course also a few positive influences ASPD spaces can have on minors with CD:
• giving them a sense of hope that even if they end up developing it, there are ways to deal with it
• having helpful posts and advice for the things that both conditions equally struggle with
• teaching skills that end up helping the kids/teens with CD to not develop ASPD
• helping them find a safe way to access help & a diagnosis
• showing them that they have a chance to grow older & potentially be happier
• getting trough to them about which behaviours are harmful and could use some work
• educating them about the stigma so they are prepared for what is maybe going to come & learn how to deal with the stigma they are already exposed to
• calling out myths, misinformation and inaccurate generalizations
• etc.
first posted on my instagram account (same @)
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