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#can we just let people enjoy things
worstloki · 13 days
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there is a difference between being born to a throne, maliciously vying for a throne, stealing a throne, and having a throne thrust upon you when you are already in the midst of an identity crisis. And I fear Loki's place in the line of succession has people unable to differentiate between any of these
#you can't really argue he planned the extent of Thor's downfall#that was all Odin#Loki didn't force Thor to invade Jotunheim he isn't even the one who gave Thor the idea -- Thor did that all on his own!#that he was doing waswasa @ thor didn't help but wasn't really crime worthy on its own#Thor himself took time convincing the other warriors to be okay with the trip despite the treason and danger involved#like. what. Thor can't differentiate good advice from bad and is emotionally volatile and reckless and that's Loki's fault?#THOR was the one who got them past Heimdall too#the entire ordeal inadvertently showed off the favouritism Thor was receiving in comparison to Loki#even though Loki was the one supposedly so easily influencing Thor to such an extent#call Thor a puppet the way he--wait. no. that sounds weird. uhhhhh#you get the point#people will claim Loki was all up in there rearranging Thor's mental processes to cause his downfall#when really it was Loki doing the bare minimum instigation and watching things only devolve from there#because Thor WAS reckless and immature ?? and he WAS quick to anger and enjoyed exerting his power with violence ??#Loki didn't STEAL THE THRONE FROM THOR he literally just is implied to undermine the coronation#that's not even confirmed but we assume it's true that he let the frost giants in near the casket etc.#Loki has his own actual crimes that he did against Thor and hugging his bro's arm and saying 'you're soooooo strong and correct' was not on#even if you manage to argue Loki was cheering Thor on for the invasion (he wasn't) it was clearly to dob Thor in with Odin#which he did when he had some guard inform Odin#that Odin's chosen punishment was for Thor's disobedience aside stop blaming Loki for the damage ODIN inflicted on him#focus on Loki making up lies to Thor about how Odin died instead like at least Loki DID SOMETHING for that#you can even ascribe as evil a motive as you want there bc Loki was slipping fr#twirling his hair and telling Thor he's smarter about the realm's safety than the king was on the normal scale#you want to talk morals go look at how eager Thor was to invade mass destroy and massacre in the other realm#and expected Odin to 'finish them off! together!' bc he was power high on whatever bloodlust pheromones battle apparently imitates for him#sigh. this is why you can't have nice things Thor. no Loki you're barely any better. sit down. have a cookie.
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claymorexpunisher · 3 months
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Hi, hello.
I’m tired of the idea of adults enjoying things geared towards a younger audience being equated to these same adults being predatory and weird.
Like god forbid some of us turn off our brains for a moment and enjoy something that is harmless.
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admiral-arelami · 3 months
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AITA If My Favorite Character is a Fascist?
Uh oh. The Fascsplainers are at it again. Yes, we know what fascism is, thx.
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sandinmybed · 9 months
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some of yall are incapable of simply saying you dislike something. you have to dress it up in social justice language and make it into a Moral Issue rather than just owning and acknowledging that it's not your taste even though other people like it. which is fine btw.
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skunkes · 3 months
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How do you feel about Dungeon Meshi (i think i spelt that right) getting more popular? I feel like i’ve only seen u post about it but now its popping up a lot more on my twt / tiktok
Mixed feelings! Glad it has an anime now and that ppl are enjoying it, because its really good!
I myself think its annoying when ppl are like "im gatekeeping x media bc its important to me 😡" so thats not how I feel on the other end. It has impacted lots of ppl so if it can get a bigger reach and impact more, thats good. ^_^
if i did not have the time or energy or resources to read it, I would've hated feeling alienated just bc it became a favorite media of mine after the anime came out
Its more like. Idk.
I know ppl who hope it gets Bigger for more official merch but I just don't want it to get Embarrassing ykwim.
I need it to not get so popular that in a few years I'm hiding the volumes from my shelf because its an embarrassing, beat to death thing thats present in every store, backpack, socks, sweater that looks like characters clothing, funko pops, etc. something i cant even enjoy anymore bc its been wrung dry and overexposed and misinterpreted, "of course u like it EVERYONE likes it!" and now I'm tired of it, and wouldn't want ppl to associate me with it LOL 🧿🧿🧿
#anonymous#skunk mail#its like how i do enjoy jjba but id never wear merch out bc what if some fandom poisoned man makes a kakyoin doughnut#joke to me. which happened in college when any mention of it came up#or like how. (insane evil hater mode) when i see people really into BNHA or SNK still im like 😬#can u imagine if those were somehow your favorite series' in the past and now someone who doesnt even go there feels weird about it For You#when you mention it being your fave. LMFAO. i recognize that'll happen regardless due to ppls tastes but ykwim!!! fandom poison!!#the subreddit has already started with unfunny memes 😭#AND already started with ''um but my shipping??? my Het shipping why no het people shipping?? why no het Canon ship??''#ok this is the other hater part that sounds like the ''im gatekeeping this thing thats already popular 😡'' crowd#and im already sorry for the wording im gonna use but you KNOWWWWW the type.#i need it to not ever be on the list of anime that harry potter GOT loving normies my age list as their fave 😭😭😭#SORRY. this is why i cant interact with jjba bc i know my harry potter loving old friend's husband loves it#or like how my friends boyfriend balks at any mention of ''gay shit'' in it. YKWIMMMM. DONT LET IT GET THIS COMMON#we cant let it get to ''i love marvel movies disney harry potter GOT and [ANIME]!'' status 😭 SORRY.#I need it to get so popular they release a thistle figure im already saving for just in case. But not marvel funko pop lover popular. 😭
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xhanisai · 10 months
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hey lads if you’re not gonna comment on a fic you enjoyed, at least leave a kudos man
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panharmonium · 5 months
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Hi! I love your Naruto thoughts and meta posts with all my heart and I want to ask your thoughts on something that has been on my mind literally since I was 13: what do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura? I went from being a hardcore shipper when I was a teenager, to being against any romantic relationship in Naruto after finishing the anime when I was in my early twenties. Nowadays I'm very into platonic love and depictions of friendship and I think the anime's obsession with forcing the "romantic interest" curse upon the main female character robbed us of... so much. There are a few wonderful moments in the anime where Sasuke and Sakura acknowledge each other, but because she's always "the girl with the crush", her actions are so often interpret as irrational or selfish by the fandom.
Hi @riemmetric!  It's great to talk to you again! Sorry it's taken me so long to answer this; RL has been making demands of me lately and it took me way longer to finish writing this up than I wanted it to (then again, I knew from the minute I read your original ask that my reply was going to get long, so I suppose I should have predicted a delay XD)
It's funny, my sister once asked me to choose between Sasuke or Sakura for an “unpopular opinion” meme, and I ended up doing Sasuke solely because I think the negative fandom opinions about Sakura are so unhinged and divorced from the actual text that I wouldn’t even know where to start.  People are entitled to dislike whatever characters they want, obviously, but there are some fandom takes that are, for me, so obviously rooted in bad faith viewings/readings that there’s no urge in me to discuss them.  That said, since you asked, I’m happy to go into my own thoughts on this a bit, with the disclaimer for other potential readers that I only write about fandom things for my own personal enjoyment, not as a contribution to The Discourse. If you don’t like Sakura, great!  I have no interest in changing your mind. Please consider this a sincere invitation to scroll on by and go enjoy whatever parts of the fandom appeal to you.
In general terms: I love Sasuke and Sakura’s relationship as much as I love all of the relationships in Team 7.  If we’re talking about them specifically as a romantic couple, then I probably fall somewhere in the middle of the spectrum, because I do like them together in a post-canon (to be clear: non-Boruto) setting, after time has passed and they’ve continued to develop individually and reconnect with each other, but I also wouldn’t exactly call myself an intense “shipper,” in the sense that I have no interest in pulling things out from the text and incorrectly citing them as evidence that Sasuke has hidden romantic feelings for her during the canon period. He cares about her in the canon period, just like he cares about Naruto and Kakashi.  That’s not up for interpretation; it’s the text.  But Sasuke during the canon time period does not demonstrate specifically romantic interest in anyone.  
[A note before people who might ship Sasuke with Someone Else emerge to rail against this statement - please just scroll past and continue enjoying fandom in whatever way is most fun for you. It is cool to ship whatever fanon thing you want; I think that’s great!  But earnestly citing any loving or emotional thing Sasuke does re: various characters in this story (yes, Sakura included) as indicative of specifically romantic love isn’t supported by the text. I know there are always going to be enormous subsets of any fandom who insist that it is, and I'm certainly not going to barge into anyone else's space to complain about that (because other people having fun together is harmless and none of my business), but I'm not obligated to indulge it on my own blog, either.]
Anyway, that said - the reason why I love Sakura and Sasuke’s relationship (from here on out I’ll use “relationship” in a general, non-romantic sense) is precisely because Sakura isn’t just “the girl with the crush.” Sakura has an arc when it comes to Sasuke, and its trajectory moves in the exact opposite direction of “irrational” or “selfish.”  She specifically goes from “the girl with the crush” to “the girl who steels herself and tries to put her personal feelings for Sasuke aside for the greater good” to “the girl who knows she can’t put her feelings aside, but who also knows full well that Sasuke doesn’t reciprocate them, and who still wants to save him regardless, because he matters to her as a person and a friend.”
[I'm putting the rest of this under a cut to save everyone's dash, and also to emphasize once again that this is a personal post on my personal blog which I wrote in response to a question from a personal acquaintance, the full content of which no one is obligated to read. I am not sending this post to random strangers and forcing them to look at it. I'm not even putting it in the character tags. I'm typing it up on my own blog and putting it under a cut. If you already know that you don't like Sakura, but you still click the link/read the post and then feel an urge to comment and complain, I am going to copy-paste this disclaimer and remind you that I specifically recommended that you scroll past and go have fun with fandom in your own way. Thanks in advance for responsibly curating your own fandom experience!]
So, from the top:
1. the girl with the crush
Sakura is, obviously, completely obsessed with Sasuke at the beginning of Part 1.  She’s also deeply clueless about him and his history (bizarre though it is, the story seems to indicate that she initially doesn’t know what happened with his family, the same way young!Obito is initially clueless about Kakashi’s father).  But what I like about Sakura and Sasuke’s Part 1 relationship is how this changes over time.
The critical scene that kicks this off happens right at the beginning of the manga, when she and Sasuke are talking by that bench - she complains about Naruto and blames his behavior on him being all alone/having no family to scold him; and even says she’s jealous that he doesn’t have parents to nag him all the time.  This obviously triggers an outburst from Sasuke, who tells her she has no idea what loneliness means and that she “makes him sick”/she’s “annoying” (importantly, the exact same thing Sakura said to Naruto in anger earlier that day), which in turn prompts Sakura to reassess herself and wonder whether she’s been making Naruto feel this terrible all the time, too:
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From that point on, it’s a process of her putting little pieces together.  She still has a MAJOR crush, and she still acts like a twelve year-old, but as we approach the end of Part I, Sakura actually has a more accurate grasp on Sasuke’s current state of mind than Naruto does.  Naruto is initially excited to fight Sasuke on top of the hospital, because he feels like Sasuke’s finally acknowledging him, whereas Sakura is the one who immediately recognizes that something is wrong about this situation.  She is also the one who, after this fight, is concerned that Sasuke is really unwell and might do something drastic like run off in pursuit of the power Orochimaru promised him, but when she communicates this to Naruto, he assures her that this would NEVER happen:
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(Sakura isn't convinced, though, because she goes to monitor the exit out of the village anyway.)
I’m not criticizing Naruto for his response here.  I ADORE hearing him say that Sasuke is too strong to need Orochimaru, with such perfect confidence - I love seeing how much respect and admiration he has for Sasuke underneath all their fighting, because that’s the whole reason he’s always baiting Sasuke and yelling at him and claiming “you're not so great!” He looks up to Sasuke; he wants to be like Sasuke; he thinks Sasuke is awesome! (It’s that Obito @ Kakashi behavior, you know?) But the fact remains that he is clueless about what’s actually going on with Sasuke in Part 1, and he remains clueless(ly optimistic) for a long time.  
(Eg, when he catches up to Sasuke during the retrieval arc and Sasuke climbs out of that cursed seal coffin, Naruto waves at him and calls "Come on, let's go!" as if Sasuke has been successfully rescued and is now going to come running home.  Even in Part II, when Naruto hears that Sasuke killed Orochimaru, he beams and immediately says, “So he must be on his way back to the Leaf Village!”  And everyone else in the room is like, “....,” because they know better.  Naruto doesn’t yet fully understand [or doesn't want to accept] the extent to which Sasuke has willingly chosen this path, and it’s not until after Jiraiya’s death/the Pain attack/the Five Kage Summit that Naruto really starts to understand Sasuke more clearly, which is something he himself admits.)
Sakura, in Part 1, has access to more information about Sasuke - she’s there for his first dissociative monologue during the bells test, she’s there for the curse mark’s placement, she’s there for his first violent transformation in the Forest of Death - she is, in fact, the unwitting catalyst for it (“Sakura…who did this to you?”), and her compassion is the reason Sasuke is later able to overcome the curse mark’s influence - so she has a more accurate/complete picture of “how he’s doing,” for lack of a better phrase, whereas Naruto, who doesn’t know about the curse mark in the first place, is still in the dark.  This means that Sakura is able to accurately discern that Sasuke is struggling more than Naruto realizes, and specifically to predict that he’s going to run away.  
(This dynamic is then interestingly flipped in the back half of Part II, since at any point after the Five Kage Summit, Sakura doesn’t have access to extremely relevant [if currently questionable and unproven] details that would in any other circumstance inform her behavior).
Of course, just because she has more info in Part 1 doesn’t mean she has some kind of miraculous insight into Sasuke’s every thought and feeling.  There are parts of her attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village that are as clueless as any of Naruto’s assumptions, and they showcase the kind of magical thinking common to childhood - like when she says that if he stayed with her, she could give him happiness, she’d do anything for him, even help him get his revenge - this idea that she herself can do something to make him feel better, that she can love him powerfully enough to defeat his pain - obviously none of that is rooted in realism.
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Is this part of her approach irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered?  Of course it is!  But it’s no more irrational and immature and inadvertently self-centered than Naruto’s stated plan to drag Sasuke back to the village even if he has to “break every bone in [his] body!” 
Hating on Sakura for her Part 1 attempt to convince Sasuke to stay in the village while simultaneously lauding Naruto for his feels like a bad faith misread of what is, to me, pretty clear narrative intention.  The story doesn’t at any point intend for us to see her begging him to stay as a selfish or conniving attempt to get something she wants.  She’s begging him to stay for the same underlying reason that Naruto is: she cares about him.  She thinks he’s making a mistake that will only cause him more pain in the end (she’s right) and she wants to make it so he feels less pain right now (she can’t.  But she doesn’t understand that/isn’t able to admit that, and she’s willing to try ANYTHING that might help).  
It’s critical that this farewell scene is set in front of that same bench from their first important confrontation - she references that day and how angry he got at her, and this time she tells him that she understands his reaction.  She’s learned things and she recognizes how insensitive she was being back then (“I know what happened to your clan, Sasuke”), even though she still can’t fully grasp all the complexities of the situation. She tells him that him blowing up at her back then helped her understand what loneliness actually meant (as opposed to her previous shallow understanding of it), and she challenges him about his choice right now: "So that's it, you're choosing the lonely path?" And when she tells him that she'll be very lonely if he leaves, we're immediately shown a panel of Sasuke thinking of both his friends, with the very clear implication that if he goes through with this, he will be lonely without them, too - that he's still struggling with the idea of leaving them, no matter how hard he tries to pretend:
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Sakura at this point knows that Sasuke isn’t interested in her the way she is in him, but she still wants to give him happiness, however fantastical and immature her ideas sound to us (and, I’m sure, to him).  “I’ll do anything, even help you get your revenge/we'll have fun every day, and...and you'll be happy! I'll make sure of it!” - of course, it’s completely childish.  It’s irrational.  It’s ridiculous to think that any of this would ever be effective, but no more ridiculous than Naruto’s belief that he can simply break every bone in Sasuke’s body and keep him in the Leaf by force.
Both Naruto and Sakura are children who have a deeply oversimplified understanding of Sasuke’s situation.  They both still think they can fix him themselves.  They both think they can save him themselves.  They both think they can convince (or force) him to do what they want, what they think is in his best interests.  Both of them don’t yet understand that he has to want to come back, if it’s ever going to mean anything.  Their attempts to keep him in the village are immature and unrealistic, yes.  What they aren’t, however, is selfish, because neither Sakura nor Naruto are doing any of this with the intention of advancing their own interests.  They’re only thinking about Sasuke - how to keep Sasuke safe, how to make Sasuke happy - even when neither of them are taking an approach that will actually work.
Naruto and Sakura are children.  They’re afraid of losing somebody they care about.  Their attempts to prevent that from happening are desperate and messy and ultimately ineffective, but they are also genuinely felt and rooted in a true desire to rescue Sasuke from his pain, which - and this is the single most important thing that should impact our viewing of Part 1 - is something that Sasuke RECOGNIZES.  He doesn’t spend that agonizingly long moment bowed over Naruto’s defeated body so we can pretend he doesn’t understand that Naruto was just trying to help him.  He doesn’t take the time to murmur, “Sakura…thank you,” before laying her out carefully on a bench, just so we can discount it and pretend that he doesn’t recognize and appreciate her genuine intention to make things better for him, however clumsy that attempt might have been.
2. the greater good
If Stage 1 Sakura is "the girl with the crush," then Stage 2 Sakura is a progression to “the girl who decides to put her feelings for Sasuke aside in order to protect innocent people, including (but certainly not limited to) Naruto.”  She’s driven to this decision by interactions with Shikamaru, who all too recently had to grow up fast himself (“We're not kids anymore...we can't allow a war to break out between the Hidden Leaf and the Hidden Cloud because of Sasuke") and Sai, who risks his new friendship with Sakura and Team 7 in order to speak some hard truths and deliver one of my favorite lines in the whole story: “I don’t know what promise Naruto made to you, but it’s really no different than what was done to me.  It’s like a curse mark.”
(INCREDIBLE.  How can anybody be complaining about a season where Sai gets to say something that goes THIS HARD and Sakura LISTENS and takes DRAMATIC ACTION that actually propels the story forward in a meaningful way - )
[Okay, yeah, brief personal opinion interlude - it is just bonkers wild to me that there are people who complain about Sakura in the Five Kage Summit arc. That entire season is the greatest character arc she ever has.  Literally she has never been more interesting and dynamic than in Season 10; it’s the first time she ever gets to be as deep and fascinating as the boys; what is everybody so worked up about?  Oh, “she lied to Naruto that one time” - Sasuke joined infant-kidnapping baby-murdering human experimentation machine Orochimaru when he was twelve years old in order to (dare I say it????) selfishly pursue his personal goals and yet, somehow, we are still able to root for him.  He abandoned his friends/allies to imprisonment and death (Suigetsu and Jūgo) or outright stabbed them in the chest himself (Karin) in order to (SELFISHLY) get what he wanted, and yet, somehow, we are still able to love him, understand him, and be on his side.  Naruto is canonically not upset with Sakura about her lie after receiving context for the situation and I think we can probably take our cues from him without feeling the need to bring her up on war crimes; please calm down]
[Sorry, I just really love most of Season 10 and think it’s one of the best examples of how good this story can be when every single character gets to do something that matters (as opposed to things being all Naruto, all the time) so I get a little bit worked up over people complaining about some of the best writing Sakura ever gets.  I don’t understand what certain elements of fandom want from her. People complain about her being “useless” and not doing anything that contributes to the story, but then they complain just as much when she does finally get to act decisively and have just as complex/dynamic an inner world as the boys.  She’s “weak” for being unreasonably in love with Sasuke, but when she tries to be “strong” and put her love for him aside and eliminate him in order to protect Naruto and the rest of the world, she’s evil, because she should have been more understanding of his situation (despite the fact that she doesn’t KNOW anything about his situation).  But then when she can’t go through with killing him after all because she cares about him too much despite the things he’s done, she’s not "compassionate" or "kind" or "a good friend," she’s “weak” again. Nothing Sakura does in S10 is more wrongheaded or rash than any of the batshit, buckwild things Naruto and Sasuke have done in the past (and will continue to do in the future), but when Naruto and Sasuke have big feelings or take bold action, it makes them interesting characters, whereas Sakura can’t breathe in anyone’s direction without being minutely scrutinized for moral impurities.]  
Anyway. Back to a more measured response.  
Every single piece of development Sakura has with regard to Sasuke in this season satisfies me so much.  Her initial shock and disbelief at hearing that Sasuke had joined the Akatsuki?  Good, appropriate.  The fact that she starts to acknowledge the reality of what Sasuke’s done sooner than Naruto does?  Also extremely appropriate, very in-character for both of them.  Her taking Sai’s words to heart and deciding that the promise she asked Naruto to make when they were children is causing him to suffer and she has to relieve him of that burden?  Juicy!  AND thematically significant (promises!!!!  the burden that a promise places on a person, especially when it can't be kept - we've seen that before in this story and we'll see it again).  Her anguished pivot from wanting to protect Sasuke to realizing that she has a responsibility to protect the countless innocents who will die because of the war he’s trying to start?  HELLO THIS IS INCREDIBLE CHARACTER DEVELOPMENT.  Her knocking out the classmates who agreed to help her so they don’t have to share in her burden (and so the only person Naruto will hate when it’s over is her)?  BRUH.  Her being so committed and focused on her goal of saving innocents and protecting Naruto (not just from being harmed by Sasuke/the Akatsuki, but by the possibility that Naruto will someday have to hurt Sasuke himself) that she tries to take everything on by herself and walks into a confrontation that she absolutely cannot win??  INCREDIBLE.  (Literally the first time I watched this, I said, “Finally!!!  It’s Sakura’s turn to go off the rails!”  I laughed with my sister about how Kakashi isn’t even mad, because Naruto and Sasuke have been pulling stunts like this for years and Sakura was way overdue for her own meltdown.)  And then, after Kakashi intervenes in the fight - Sakura barreling back into the battle when she realizes he’s going to take on the burden of killing Sasuke himself in order to spare her and Naruto the horror - “I can’t let Kakashi-sensei bear this burden!”  I love her for that.  
And then, of course, in the end - her not being able to do hurt Sasuke after all.  Despite committing herself to the act, despite forcing herself to put her feelings for him aside, despite resolving to stop him from starting a war and killing innocent people, she can’t harm him.  She cares about him too much.  This, too, is thematically significant - think about Itachi’s “you don’t have enough hatred” - she doesn’t have enough hatred to kill someone she cares about, even if it seems like he deserves it, even if would be the right thing to do to protect others.  She can’t do it, and Sasuke almost kills her for her compassion.  
I love the dynamic this sets up between her and Sasuke, for a few reasons:
1) Personally, I think Sasuke respects Sakura much more for trying to kill him than he would have if she’d just tried to talk him out of his behavior or beg him to come home (a la their original confrontation in Part 1).  This is the first significant interaction he’s had with Sakura in years, and the fact that she does something SO contrary to his memory of her is an important demonstration of the fact that she’s not the same girl she used to be.  Sasuke spends a lot of time after his defection declaring to his old team “I’ve changed; I’m not that person anymore,” but this is one of the moments where he’s forced to acknowledge that his teammates have changed, too.  Time didn’t just stop for them when he left.  While he was turning into someone new, so were they.  They grew up without him, and his old memories of them can’t encompass the whole picture of who they are now.  
(This is a little tangential, but in general, I love the spectrum of reactions that Naruto, Sakura, and Kakashi have in this sequence, and the way that all of them are ultimately messages Sasuke needs to hear.  Sasuke - who we know textually regrets what he did here, who apologizes to Sakura for it later - for “everything,” in fact - needs Naruto’s aggressively optimistic open-arms policy, yes, needs that potential, that unconditional possibility of return.  He also needs Sakura’s refusal to let him hurt her friends and start a war that will kill thousands of people, needs her surprisingly ruthless attempt to take him down; needs just as much her failure to do so, because it shows him that she still loves him too much to kill him even as she condemns him.  And he needs Kakashi’s grim line in the sand, needs someone who very possibly won't hesitate like Sakura (despite the horrifying personal cost), someone who will try to reach him but also won't let him escape and become the next generation’s Orochimaru, who won't let him cause untold suffering to untold numbers of people just because a teacher loved him too much to stop him when he had the chance. 
(And then even Kakashi chooses not to deliver a killing blow when he has the opportunity -)
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(I know that in fandom people are more likely to be all, “oh, Naruto Good, everybody else Bad,” but I don’t think the narrative frames Sakura or Kakashi as “worse” than Naruto in any way.  The story goes out of its way to make it clear how desperately they don’t want to hurt Sasuke and how much they care about him.  And [this is just my interpretation, so obviously I won’t claim it as fact], I personally think that Sasuke - Sasuke, who, looking back, can see how lost he was then and how tortured he would have been if he’d gone through with many of his plans - would be grateful to Sakura and Kakashi for making an attempt to stop him when he couldn’t stop himself.)
2) On the other side of this, the fact that Sakura wasn’t able to deliver the killing blow means a lot. Sasuke was incapacitated under that bridge; he was completely at her mercy - but she stopped with the kunai an inch from his back.  She couldn’t kill him, even though she knew that he was completely willing to kill her (because he'd attempted to Chidori-assassinate her from behind just a few minutes ago).  That’s huge!  Sasuke is too out of his head right now to process this or understand it, but later, it's going to matter.  She stayed her hand.  She spared his life.  She loved him too much to hurt him, even when he’d given her every reason to take him down.  She hesitated, and he almost killed her for it, but her inability to strike him ultimately gave him yet another chance to come home, another chance to get better, another chance to have a life outside of his pain.  Despite everything, some part of her still hadn’t really given up on him, and that knowledge will matter later, when he’s finally able to acknowledge it.  
The point of all this is to say that I really have no complaints about Sakura and Sasuke’s dynamic in their S10 confrontation.  This season is the point where Sakura fully grows past her “girl with a crush” stage and into her “shinobi must make very harsh decisions” adulthood, but it never means that she doesn’t care about the person she’s trying to take down.  Her ultimate inability to deliver the killing blow remains a dangling lifeline for her relationship with Sasuke, an open door that Sasuke is able to walk through at the end of the story (literally, in fact, when Sakura opens that portal for him and saves him from Kaguya’s desert prison, and figuratively, too, when Sasuke apologizes to her).
3. she only wants to save you
The last stage in their relationship is what Sakura settles into during the war arc.  She started off Part 1 being just a girl with a crush, then tried to harden her heart and put her feelings for Sasuke aside in service of the greater good, but she was unable to actually follow through and kill him, and because of that, what she’s come to accept by the war arc is actually two things: that 1) Sasuke truly is willing to let her die if it furthers his goals, and 2) she wants to save him anyway.  
She has no intention of pursuing Sasuke romantically.  She knows full well that Sasuke isn’t interested in her.  She even knows that Sasuke isn’t really on their side (there’s a great scene where Sai questions Sakura about Sasuke’s return, and she reassures him that everything is fine, and Sai sadly thinks to himself “even I can tell your smile is fake”).  She’s well-aware that Sasuke didn’t try to help her when Madara stabbed her.  She’s well-aware that he left her to die in the lava pit.  She’s also well-aware that none of this is enough to make her stop loving him.  He doesn’t have to care about her - she still cares about him.  She still wants to help him.  She still wants to save him.
This is not hidden, hard-to-parse character development.  It’s explicitly articulated on the page:
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Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.
I’m not sure if people look at this last confrontation and unquestioningly take Sasuke at his word (as if we haven’t just read 71 volumes/watched 700 episodes showing us how how painfully distorted his thinking is), or if they stop reading/watching before the end of the scene, or if they don’t understand that Sasuke saying something doesn’t make that statement an accurate representation of reality.  The entire point of this scene is to show us how deeply mistaken Sasuke is about Sakura (and, by extension, the rest of Team 7).  He’s locked into a false pattern of thinking.  His single-minded focus on revenge and destruction has blinded him to the unconditional love his friends feel for him; he’s become so accustomed to using others and being used that he can’t understand or accept that someone would care about him without needing a reason, without needing him to love them back, without needing to receive something from him in exchange.
Sakura’s not trying or wanting to make you hers!  She only wants to save you.
Sasuke matters to Sakura as more than a love interest.  He always has.  She does love him romantically, yes, but she doesn’t only love him romantically, and her desire to help him is not and has never been contingent on him returning her feelings, romantically or otherwise.  Sasuke isn’t able to acknowledge that in this scene, but that doesn’t mean we’re supposed to just sit back and agree with his warped perspective.  Kakashi is the one who’s explicitly positioned as the voice of the narrative here.  We, as the audience, are supposed to recognize that Kakashi is the one telling us the truth.
[tangential thing 1: You don’t have to love Sakura's last plea to Sasuke here. It’s not my favorite, either - the best part, other than Kakashi’s speech at the end, is the moment after Kakashi collapses when Sakura’s expression changes from pained uncertainty to pure rage, when she grits her teeth together - when I first saw that, I almost leapt out of my seat like “Oh my god.  She’s finally going to let him have it.  It’s finally happening - ”  I wanted that so badly, and I still think it would have been a more effective writing choice for Sakura’s last words to lean more into her anger at the suffering Sasuke is causing all of them (himself included!) and less into yet another of Kishimoto’s “let me have Sakura articulate what a shame it is that she can’t do as much as Naruto despite the fact that I literally just went through a major reveal sequence in the war to show that she’s caught up to the boys; I can’t make up my mind about whether I want her to progress or not” - it’s extremely frustrating (and it's something he does at the very end of the S10 Team 7 reunion, too, which is the ONLY moment of S10 that falls flat for me).  But at the same time, even if there are ways this sequence could be more satisfying, it doesn’t change the fact that her plea to him is not remotely motivated by a desire to be with him romantically and not anything to condemn her for.]
[tangential thing 2: I do like how she remembers that moment when Sasuke says “Thank you.”  That panel precedes her saying “If there’s even a tiny corner of your heart that thinks about me…” (which I’m sure is one of the things that people like to criticize about this scene, aka “oh she’s sooooo self-centered” etc), but that particular line of dialogue is preceded by that particular flashback panel for a reason: Sakura knows that Sasuke DOES think about her.  He thinks about all of them.  Sakura remembers that “thank you,” and it reminds her that despite everything Sasuke has done and said since, despite all evidence to the contrary, she knows in her bones that his expression of gratitude back then was genuine.  He cared about her once.  He cared about all of them.  She’s trying to reach the part of him that still does, if it exists.]
[tangential thing 3: The fact that Kakashi says “she suffers from loving you,” and it triggers Sasuke to remember his own family - thinking about how much he suffered (and still suffers) from loving them - “Perhaps…those are the ties to a failed past” - the idea that it’s not worth it to have bonds if it means you suffer this much…that it’s too difficult, it’s too painful, and if Sakura and the rest of Team 7 were smarter they would just give it up (all Sasuke knows how to do now is sever potential bonds before they can hurt him; so why aren’t Sakura and the rest of his teammates doing that, why can’t they let it go, why are they making this so hard - ) << yeah, he clearly doesn't care about her/them at all.]
4. the shadow of my family
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This has all been a really long way to answer the original question, but the short response to “What do you think about the relationship between Sasuke and Sakura?” is “I really care about it,” just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Naruto, just like I really care about the relationship between Sasuke and Kakashi. And I don’t think the story ever asks me to choose between them.
I’m not sure whether it’s the impact of Boruto-era “canon” that gets in the way of other people approaching things this way (I don’t consider sequel material when I evaluate the original story), or if it’s Kishimoto’s frequent disinterest in/disrespect towards female characters, which yes, does sometimes make it harder, or if it's a shipping thing (bane of my existence), or some combination of factors, but for me, taking one member of Team 7 out of the equation hobbles the rest of the story.  I can’t read/watch Naruto while hating one of the protagonists and loving the other three.  It doesn’t work like that for me.  The story wasn’t written that way, and there’s nothing in the text that would cause me to receive it that way.
That doesn't mean there's anything wrong with disliking one of the main foursome (or any character, for that matter) - obviously we're all going to have different preferences, and everyone is free to enjoy or reject whatever parts of a story they want, or to like or dislike whatever characters they want. I know that some people have more fun disregarding canon and doing their own thing, which is fine.  My own personal zone of enjoyment comes from receiving the story as closely to how I think it was intended to be read as I can, and personally, when I look at this particular story, what I see is that all the members of Team 7 clearly demonstrate their love for Sasuke in ways that he himself later recognizes and acknowledges. All of them are driven by their desire to save him and their unwillingness to hurt him. All of them make repeated choices to chase after him when he runs away, to trust him when he hasn't exactly earned it, to give him another chance when he doesn't appear to deserve it. ALL of them, not just Naruto, do these things multiple times throughout the story, and Sasuke owes his life (and thus his eventual recovery) to ALL of them, many times over. Kakashi disobeys Hokage-elect Danzō and breaks the law to negotiate for Sasuke's life with a foreign head of state. Sakura and Kakashi both have opportunities to kill Sasuke in the Land of Iron, and they choose to spare him instead. Kakashi stops Sasuke from killing his only friends at two different points in the story, which would have been a mistake Sasuke couldn't have recovered from. Sasuke would have died in Kaguya's desert dimension if Sakura hadn't saved him (Sakura, who knew that Sasuke wasn't even truly on her side yet, who knew he'd abandoned her for dead multiple times already that day). Kaguya's bone bullet would have killed Sasuke too, if Kakashi, with his intention to die in Sasuke's place, hadn't leapt in front of it (Kakashi, who also knew that Sasuke wasn't fully on their side yet, who also knew that Sasuke had abandoned him for dead earlier that day). Sasuke and Naruto would have BOTH died in the Final Valley if Sakura and a severely injured Kakashi hadn't chased after them to heal their injuries.
Remove any one member of Team 7, and Sasuke never makes it home. Without the combined efforts of all three of his teammates, he doesn't survive.  That’s the way it should be, thematically, for a story whose first and most foundational premise was the importance of teamwork, and since Sakura was just as essential to that framework as everyone else, I’m just as invested in her relationship with Sasuke as I am in his relationship with everyone else.  You can’t remove one leg from a four-legged stool without damaging the integrity of the entire structure, and for me, discounting any single member of Team 7 irreparably damages the integrity of the entire story. 
TL;DR: I love all of the Team 7 relationships, including Sakura and Sasuke's, because despite what some segments of fandom seem to believe, the text of the story never gives me any reason not to.
#naruto#meta#replies#anyway that's that! hopefully that is a helpful answer#thank you for the question! i honestly don't think i would have ever gotten around to writing about this if i hadn't been directly asked#i love talking about the stories i enjoy (obviously; we all do; that's why we're here)#but i'm usually ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ about responding to takes that blatantly misread the narrative to justify hating a particular character or ship#mostly because a) it's whatever. as long as people mind their own business and leave me to enjoy myself they can do what they want#and b) some opinions are so divorced from the actual text that they're not worth discussing#like. what's the point of responding to random internet posts saying that sakura was selfishly pursuing sasuke as a lover the entire time#when that is textually and provably not the case?#if you're that committed to experiencing things in direct contradiction to what the narrative is asking of us then just go ahead#is it mildly annoying to me? sure. but so are lots of things and it's better to just let stuff go#like - i initially planned to take this piece of meta all the way up through sakura and sasuke's last scene together#the one where he tells her 'maybe next time' and finally reclaims and redefines itachi's forehead tap (INCREDIBLE. THIS SCENE.)#but ultimately i changed my mind because everything i wrote for that last section was coming out too harsh#i generally prefer to talk about fandom stuff in a chill/friendly approachable way#but i kept thinking about the most obscenely & disrespectfully inaccurate read of that scene i'd ever seen#and i couldn't figure out how to talk about it in a non-scathing way#that scene and the one where naruto gives sasuke's headband back are the ONLY well-written things about the finale of naruto#they are SO perfectly constructed and i can't respond to people slandering either one without feeling an urge to kill#so i just deleted it. partially because again - this is fandom; it's not that serious; people can do what they want#but also because i know i get extra frustrated about people picking over the text and plucking out isolated bits and pieces#to contort into blatantly misinterpreted mutant shapes that 'confirm' whatever pre-existing judgments or ships they had#instead of experiencing the story as a cohesive whole & keeping in mind the greater context of what it's always been trying to communicate#people on this website say 'we all interpret things differently :)' as if it means no one can ever be wrong about what a text is saying#newsflash: not all interpretations of a text are valid. things can't in fact mean whatever you want them to mean.#the ***story*** persists and exists even if the author is dead to you#if you choose to ignore that then that's fine; it's just fandom; who cares. but i'm not going to pretend you're 'analyzing' anything.#(ok now i'm really done. you can see why i deleted this section XD)
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idk if this is still the case but when i was really In It in animorphs feelings a couple years ago because i was unemployed for the first time in my adult life / temporarily living alone in the last house my family lived in / freaking out about climate change / generally Going Through It, and like poking around the animorphs scene on tumblr, there was this notion commonly expressed that rachel and tobias were "toxic," the major piece of evidence for which was the scene in 33 where she "tries to trap him in human morph." which like first of all i'm SOOOOOO SORRRY that the fucking fifteen-year-olds secretly fighting a guerrilla war in which their greatest threat is the mind-controlling slugs they're trying to save humanity from but their second greatest threat is the diminishing hourglass of their collective sanity as they all have to work steadily harder and more desperately to not just completely lose their shit entirely from all the violence and literal 24/7 constant threat and murder that is happening, like i'm sorry two literal children who have managed in this ongoing horror show to forge a bond of loyalty and affection and care and attraction and understanding that can act as a kind of solace neither of them have any other way to access, sorry those actual murder babies sometimes have some communication problems. lmao. but also it's insane to me that people read that scene (in which they're dancing to, i'm not making this up, iris by the goo goo dolls - i mean they don't tell us the song but it's a slow goo goo dolls number that even tobias knows, so - they're dancing to iris by the goo goo dolls at a school dance that is not going well because they are both awkward about the newfound public Officialness of their relationship and rachel who is the only one of them who has ever been capable of socializing like a normal person is in a particularly bad mood because of the emotional hangover of her starfish adventure [great concept executed terribly in the previous book], and then like after two entire minutes of letting himself feel some nice emotions tobias spots the clock and starts leaving to go demorph and then rachel runs after to him to awkwardly attempt to share that she is very fucked up about how insane she has become and she wants to hold on to things like school dances and also this is all happening in a hallway by a student poster on red tailed hawks that states their lifespan of a handful of years in the wild, it's so good) as rachel trying to trap tobias in morph, when like, first of all, "good thing happening -> time to punish myself for feeling nice for 5 whole seconds " is like THEE tobias thought pattern because he's the number one kidlit trauma baby of all time, like truly the first time i dove back into the series i was struck by how well his narrative voice captures Child Of Insane Family Dysfunctionality, he is NOT a reliable narrator on this, but also second, and more saliently, like, believing this scene is rachel attempting to trap tobias in morph requires that you believe rachel, all by herself, made a plan in advance and then attempted to execute it, which is a skill we literally never see her demonstrate even one fucking time outside of the comfortingly familiar hunting ground of the mall
#animorphs#i have a hard visceral aversion to personally adopting ADHD headcanons in general#(you do you idc about people's headcanons but like#this is one that reliably does not do it for me [person with ADHD] and which also often makes me feel weird for vague reasons#but again like this is not an Argument or a Criticism have your fun it's simply not for me)#BUT. someone once said they headcanon rachel as ADHD.#and that is... the ONLY time i have ever read that and been like 'oh wow no okay yeah that tracks'#which honestly thinking on it now i feel like sort of helps me articulate why i'm usually like 'her?'#bc i feel like i tend to see it as like 'this would be cute/relatable/fun to project on to' (you do you not for me)#or i see it based on like... a perception of general ADHD Vibes#which like. on the one hand i get. there can be Vibes. there's a reason the set of people i Enjoy A Lot has ADHD overrepresented on it.#but personally i am like. but where are the scenes of them ruining their own life for reasons attributable to ADHD traits#i don't personally get anything out of lumping people into a DSM category with me if they are not also constantly ruining their own lives#like i can just relate to them because we have similar Vibes. that's plenty.#but rachel.................#the scenes of rachel constantly ruining her own life because of her inability to think for 5 seconds before speaking or acting ever. like.#that's in every book rachel ever has#she literally has a line at one point like 'i don't know why i say these things. they just pop out of my stupid mouth.' girl same...#anyway. speaking of ADHD. i have GOT to stop letting myself 'just check tumblr a little bit' while i'm waiting for the adderall to hit
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masukisjacket · 17 days
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Crazy how I just saw someone calling sefikura "romanticized abuse and nothing more" in the year of our lord 2024
Like....... tell me you don't understand what the ship is about without telling me you don't understand what the ship is about
Also I don't think op is going to see this because they said they hate this ship but if u somehow do: please don't interact and just move on🙏 if u have any rebuttals I honestly don't wanna hear them
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mangora · 5 months
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Who cares about ship and character discourse. Frolic. Be free. Valid criticism is important but also don’t be afraid to look on the bright side for once. Think about Svetlana ‼️
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cathalbravecog · 7 months
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i'm the antonymph of the internet
#how many tributes to this song will i make in my life#MANY ! it literally changed my life and means a lot to me. i love antonymph and vylet pony's music is worth checking out - please do.#unsupervised internet access as a queer neurodivergent kid anthem !!#i chose to do misty since we all know i like drawing her in experimental pieces and putting her in outfits. she also has art in a gir hoodi#from the clash team in treasure trove!! :D#this is also experimental/stylistic as well!! had fun!! nice to just draw something in one day and not worry. leaves me tired but...#haven't done a nice piece like so in one day in a while!!! i'm very proud :] it's a fun one#anyways... both a little tribute to the song and misty as a character#ihave so many thoughts about misty even if i dont talk publicly on them. shes a very interesting character to me and i care about her so#much. i compared her to fluttershy in the past - and realized that if i liked ttcc as a kid she would've been my favorite.#fluttershy on her own meant a lot to me as a child. including mlp itself as it's one of the core things that got me into drawing art online#a lot of my analysis on misty and headcanons at least on the more emotional scale do come from a bit of projecting but...it makes it more#fun to me when i can put myself into the shoes of a character like her who i already relate to. rrghh too bad im scared to talk about her#too much in nuanced detail in public since some people are... not so nice about her. though i know the tumblr audience is nice and unders#standing!!#anyways from me just having fun being me#i let misty have a little bit of fun... something i think she would possibly enjoy? i do see her as someone who gets nostalgic#and is stuck in more childish things and matters. she wants to play ip dip with you...its very sweet to me. letting myself and her be#confident through a song that means so much to me is kind of powerful to me. i had a lot of fun making this drawing.#anyways. love this song. love ttcc. love mity /p. be swag and be self indulgent and have fun. you can do anything u want forevah#toontown#toontown corporate clash#antonymph#guz art#rainmaker
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just curious since when was screaming the end all be all metric of good singing. like just curious when we stopped caring about vocalists who sing w passion and heart and more impressive technicality than almost every other singer in the industry today. when did those actually important things start mattering less than being able to scream and. match the instrumental??? (not usually a requirement for music so it's a fucking weird complaint tehe!!). like just wondering when it became cool to randomly criticize talent just to raise your personal favorite artist up on a pedestal more than you already do without having to tear someone else down. just pondering since when it wasn't cool to just say i don't personally like that thing and move on and not need to write essays justifying why the thing is Actually bad and horrible so you're allowed to dislike it. like just fucking curious why some people can't just keep fall out boy and every single member of the bands names out of their mouths for once 🥰🥰🥰
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elephantbitterhead · 3 days
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Having finally been driven to blacklisting content, I'd like to take this moment to say that no annoying/overexposed/boring/formulaic/etc. musician will ever be as irritating to me as their fans and their haters are.
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yeehawgeek · 24 days
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“cringe culture is dead” yeah bro until it’s something that you don’t like
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hella1975 · 8 months
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sometimes i think about the fact my grandparents literally overnight just cut us off and im like. how did u even do that. does it torment you
#eeaao's 'how did you let me go so easily' moment. like i dont let myself even THINK about this too often#bc i immediately beat myself back with the 'if it's hard for you then imagine how hard it is for mum. her PARENTS cut her off'#but like. idk. my nan i couldn't give less of a shit about which is something i always find so interesting#bc even as a child with NO basis for it or any understanding of her behaviour both past and present i still wasn't Comfortable around her#like children are smart actually. i just Knew her vibes were off and i Knew my mum was weird when she was around#like i truly dont think i ever loved my nan even when she was a very frequent part of my life#but my grandad? i ADORED him. id see him multiple times a week and he's the kindest man ive ever met#and hannah what i told you about my mum saying certain people have magnetic auras THAT WAS ABOUT HIM#like i cant actually put into words what it was about him but people just wanted to know him and spend time with him#but he was weak and let my nan walk all over him and when push came to shove he chose her and now ive not spoken to him in 3 years#& i KNOW he loved me. he thought the world of me like it's a bitter unspoken thing between me & my sister that we KNOW i was his favourite#he used to buy me egg butties at agricultural shows when my mum said no and specifically ask for two eggs#he used to sit and eat his soup with me when he came over to do work at the house#he used to play with me. he used to smile all the time. i can so clearly hear the way he'd go ''iya [my name]' with his proper rural accent#or how he'd tell anyone who would listen 'she's tough as old boots that one'#and i could make him laugh like NO ONE else could and he'd light up and go 'give over' and he genuinely enjoyed my company#i KNOW HE DID. and i havent spoken to him in 3 years. he'll be dead soon#and i cant talk to my mum about it bc it's her DAD it is so much worse for her and i cant talk to my sister about it#bc she wasn't close with him like i was and she just shuts the conversation down and those are the only two people#who know my grandad and know what he meant to me so im just here like. he literally stopped speaking to me overnight#i stopped hearing from him i stopped meeting up with him im so so angry with him the love is still there i dont know where to put it now#why couldnt he stay. why did he pick her when she's a loveless void of inhumanity. why werent we enough#hella goes home#my grandparents on my dad's side are also not in the picture funnily enough but idgaf about them. she got that grandparentless swag
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earthyorangeaid · 11 months
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I watched American Born Chinese because the few posts I did find about it were mostly positive and I ended up really loving it! The story telling is very good and the characters are all extremely engaging. The show really does feel like a labor of love by everyone who was a part of it.
I know there’s criticism because of how different it is from the source material but… I honestly don’t care about any of that. No I never read the graphic novel, but I’ve heard negative things about it too, and just generally speaking I’m not a person who usually cares for tv media to be EXACTLY like the media it came from. Sometimes, it’s nice to see characters I love in a new story I haven’t already seen, and I think ABC was made with so much love and consideration and passion for the topics it DID want to handle, and has allowed itself to be something totally it’s own.
I hope this show can push past the usual wave of negativity that’s often pointed at minority lead and created media and find it’s audience, I’m really disappointed by how little visibility it seems to be getting at the moment because I think this show deserves a chance to tell its story all the way through
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