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#but we'll talk about that some other day

straight-to-the-pain · 2 years

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Some thoughts on whump and how we enjoy it

I've spoken to a lot of people about why they enjoy whump and what they get out of it, and it made me think about my own enjoyment of whump and how I got into it, as well as how it intersects with things like kink and sexuality. The more I thought about this, the more I realised that a lot of the common discourse that I see in the community seems to stem from a mismatch in people's enjoyment and understanding of whump on a personal level, and I thought that it would be really fascinating to explore this further, which is why I'm making this post.

I'm not trying to start any arguments, but I would love to hear people's responses and views on the subject, so feel free to disagree or engage in respectful discussion in the notes. Under a cut for length and some discussion of kink and sexuality, in a non-sexual context.

To start off, I want to define whump as a very wide genre of fiction that encompasses any kind of mental or physical suffering inflicted on a character, whether for the explicit enjoyment of the writer or reader, or as a writing or plot device. While many many pieces of fiction and media contain aspects of whump, the thing that distinguishes us as whump writers and enjoyers is that we have a specific focus on that suffering, and often the comfort and recovery that can come after.

While many people think that kink/BDSM is something that is inherently sexual, this is also something that I disagree with. It tends to be considered nsfw as it deals with intimate interpersonal relationships and can often be sexual in nature, but nsfw does not have to mean sexual. In many contexts, violence, swearing, drugs and alcohol are all considered nsfw and can even make a film rating 18. I do think that it's important to draw certain lines between minors and adults when discussing sexuality and relationships, but what makes something inherently inappropriate for minors is often a contentious and highly debated topic.

When we've had these discussions previously, a lot of people took issue with the statement that whump could often be linked to sexuality. I definitely think that there is a category of whump enjoyers who are purely into suffering as a trope and fictional device, to explore character development or add intrigue to a plot, and that's completely fine, but I also think that for a lot of people it crosses over into a more personal interest.

I'm also aware that a lot of people in the whump community identify as asexual, and I don't want to discount that in any way, but I actually think that for people who aren't attracted in that way to other people, an interest in whump can almost fill the space that sexual attraction would otherwise take in their brain, and act as an expression of sexuality in its own right.

I personally do consider myself to be ace, because I've never felt sexual (or romantic, arguably, though that's harder to define) attraction to another person, but that doesn't mean that I don't find certain things sexy. I absolutely think that in the right context, violence can be incredibly sexy, even if it isn't sexual in nature. I've often found it hard to define my interest as either whump or kink, but for me that line is purely in what is fictional and inflicted on characters and what is something that I fantasise about personally or would be interested in doing irl.

When people ask me how and when I got into whump, I usually say that I found the community through gifs on tumblr, but I've been drawn to violence in a variety of contexts throughout my whole life, ever since I saw it in books and movies as a child. It's impossible for me to fully separate my enjoyment of the aesthetics of pain and my personal desires from what I like to inflict on my OCs in stories or see depicted on screen. And it is impossible to entirely separate that enjoyment from my sexuality either.

It often confuses me to see people who write very explicit nsfw content or reblog posts that are arguably about irl fantasies have 'kink blogs dni' notes in their bios. I understand that a lot of people want there to be a hard line between their whump and their kink, and while there are people whose kinks and whump interests are completely separate, it still seems futile to me to try to define your work in such a strict category when it is something that could be easily be read as kink.

Once you have written something, you do not have control over how someone else reads and enjoys it. You cannot know for sure that people won't read your entirely sfw piece of torture writing and not get off on it, or that people won't read your erotica for the plot and feel nothing about it sexually whatsoever. For a long time, I worried about trying to define my interest neatly and cleanly. Was whump something I enjoyed in fiction, or was I just into getting hurt irl as a kink? Did I find it sexual or was I into it for the character dynamics and the tropes?

The answer isn't a single thing for me. I love thinking about torture in an academic context, and I find the idea of being tortured for information sexy even if everyone keeps their clothes on, and on top of all of that, I find the dynamics between a torturer and a victim fascinating to explore in a piece of writing. Sometimes I search for things that are more explicitly sexual, and sometimes I read something and focus solely on the characters and not myself.

One thing that separates whump from other types of writing is the way we talk about our characters and our tropes in a meta sense. I often see people talking about finding characters hot or cute when they're in pain or covered in blood, or wanting to see them on their knees. Attraction is a very broad term and doesn't have to be sexual; it can be purely aesthetic in nature. But I still think that this signals a more personal involvement in whump than people might have with other genres.

We like to imagine ourselves as the characters getting hurt or as the ones doing the hurting, or maybe we like to see ourselves coming in at the end of it all to cradle our favourite characters in our arms and wash the blood from their faces. We wince when they get hurt and cheer for more, and we clap when they escape and when they get recaptured. And when you extend that to live action media with actors we find attractive, it adds a whole extra layer to the meaning of our interest.

A lot of the debates and arguments that I've seen arise over the years seem to come down to the nature of people's enjoyment of whump. I have seen people argue that whump should not be sexual, or that it's becoming too sexualised over time. I do think that there are sub genres of whump that are a lot more overtly sexual or kinky than others, but what differentiates whump from pure kink for me is that in whump the characters are not really consenting to something or enjoying it.

Of course this becomes even more complicated when you look at the growing popularity of 'pet whump', a genre that relies on the assumption that someone can be 'broken' and made to enjoy what is being done to them, even though it's still seen as a violation and an act of violence by the audience. In kink, someone might enjoy consensual non consent (which also doesn't have to be sexual), where an activity is pre negotiated but in the moment, the participants act as if it is a genuine unwanted attack while still maintaining consent and mutual enjoyment. I think that a line can be drawn between that as an irl fantasy, and the enjoyment of whump for some people, with 'pet whump' being a fantasy of being made to enjoy submitting against their will until they truly begin to want it.

And that isn't to say that this is why everyone enjoys the sub genre, or that it has to be sexual for anyone, but I do think that because of the overlap between 'pet whump' and D/s dynamics, there are people in the whump community who see it as more explicit and overtly kinky, and therefore want to distance themselves from it. This isn't a problem to me, as long as there isn't any personal or moral judgement attached to it, but I also don't think it's fair to tell people that they cannot call it whump, when their interest is primarily fictional in nature.

I have seen people argue that a specific trope isn't 'really whump' or shouldn't be considered part of the community, but I don't really think that this is a helpful perspective. I'm not a huge fan of 'pet whump' myself, because I really enjoy outright defiance and resistance (a huge part of my enjoyment of whump and kink in general is the idea of being able to win by enduring pain, defiance through bearing something difficult and keeping some part of yourself as your own throughout), but it's still a genre which sits snugly within the category of fictional suffering.

Trends change, tropes rise and fall in popularity, but at the end of the day there will always be people who like the things you do, for the reasons that you like them. Find those people, share each other's content, make your own groups within a large community, but don't tell other people that they aren't welcome because they have a different experience with whump to you.

Reflect on why you like something, consider whether it's something you enjoy in fiction or real life or both, and what draws you to certain tropes, for the sake of knowing yourself better if nothing else. Don't judge yourself too harshly and don't try to put people in boxes or draw hard lines in the sand. We're here because we are connected by a common interest, but we won't all like each other or enjoy the same things and that's okay. Happy whumping!

#whump meta #whump community #s talks #my stuff #I've just spent so much time thinking about this #my own reasons for being into whump could probably fill a whole other post #maybe we'll get to that some day #but genuinely just be nice to each other #and understand that experiences can be varied #but also don't shit on kink blogs when you create kink adjacent content #also obviously if you're a minor then yeah it makes sense that you don't want to talk about kink on main that's fine but like #minors have kinks and like they definitely do act on them and explore them in fiction and acknowleding that doesn't make me a criminal #thought crime doesn't exist #you can't tell someone that they're violating you by enjoying your work the wrong way in their head #or enjoying a trope in a sexy way if it's not a sexy trope and they're not talking about it being sexy to you

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im-smart-i-swear · 1 year

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What's your favourite FNIN book and why?

IM GLAD YOU ASKED-

its 'trzecia kuzynka'!

it just really stands out of the series, starting with the setting: - instead of Warsaw, a big city, the whole book takes place in the polish mountains(which ones??? who knows. i dont). usually the action of fnin books takes place in a big city(there are exceptions to this rule ofc) but this time the closest urban area is a small town.

the feeling of uneasiness also shows itsel in the book's cast. in most books we have a bunch of reoccuring characters: felix and net's parents, teachers, classmates - but here the only other familiar person is manfred(and even still hes not as prevelant bc theres no internet and stuff). just like the trio, the reader doesnt know anybody. theyre alone. everyone and everything here is strange and the lack of familiar faces only makes it more apparent. theres also the fact that when usually the trio are the best informed and oriented people in a given situation, here theyre.... lost. everyone(alright maybe not everyone, but you get the point) has secrets and hidden motives.

another thing is how the trio separates - although thats not uncommon in fnin, the way they do it is dffrent from usual - instead of net and felix having another one of their dramatic breakups, its nika who distances herself from her friends. thats also another thing i love about 'trzecia kuzynka' - the way it focuses on nika and her relationship with f&n. the change of setting allows for the common 'what if people find out nika is an orphan' thing to fade into the background for once, wnich means theres room to explore other aspects of nikas life and personality. her lack of friends aside from felix&net, her emphaty and selflesnes, her persistance to do the right thing - all those qualities are allowed to shine here and its great!

this book subverts expectations of a long time fnin reader and it feels so fresh and unique beacuse of that. the way the tension gradually builds up as more and more weird things happen makes it so fun to read! and, in a truly shocking twist, morten isnt behind everything this time!!(i know, impossible). even the fact the trio is separated during the finale instead of sticking toghether as per usual - 'trzecia kuzynka' flips the typical fnin formula on its head and i love it.

the new side characters are pretty cool too! when i first read this book, i thought laura's very cool - and honestly i still think that - she has a motive here, shes doing her own thing, and also shes hilarious. the others are pretty entertaining too! oh, and how could i forget - the 'false trio'. oh my frickin god the reveal of them being secret fucking agents was glorious-

and one other thing i have to mention - the horrors. there are times while reading this book when i have to stop and ask myself 'wait.why is this actually scary.' in other books there are moments or longer scary scenes, sure, but the one is dripping with tension and anticipation from start to finish, and the finale is the perfect culmination of that. there are so many scenes that just stuck with me - the graveyard, laura's mam-moth(get it) story, the whole castle sequence(i was a bit uncomfortable tho..), the reveal of the giANT FUCKING *THING* UNDER THE HOUSE-, and of course the entirety of nika's side of the finale!

i have no idea what other people think about this book, but i absolutely love it!(crap now i want to reread it for the gazillionth time)

thank you for the ask!

#fnin #felix net i nika #woagh how did i write so many words this fast.#i. i have THOUGHTS about this frickin book. so many of em..#i really hope we'll get to see the false trio again one day. that would be nice i think #SHIT i forgot to talk about the third cousin herself...#buuut im kinda cautious about talking about her cause i dont want to accidentally say anything ableist. i dont want to get into all that rn #but i think shes great! the dream sequences especially give her a lot of depth #can you tell from this post wnich one out of the trio is my favourite?#i LOVE nika's portrayal in this book........#the other two are fine! i love them! but its nika time babey!!#WHY cant i draw her????? felix and net were really easy to figure out but nika is a pain in my ass for some reason. ughahghauhghhh #ask #miiight post a fnin doodle dump later beacuse drawing the silly fictional teenagers is way more fun than. yknow. doing math. in math class.

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h3rmitsunited · 1 year

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I was going back through my old school stuff from like 1st grade and there was this like journal where we had to write like a couple sentences each day to practice writing and stuff and i had this one day where part of what I wrote was "I hate myself today because I had to change my card to yellow" (the cards were like discipline things so you started with green and if you weren't being good you had to stand up and go to the front of the class to change your card) and I don't remember what it was for but I'm sure I was just like maybe talking or something like that.

But like damn. Even just thinking about the times I had to change my cards in those classes makes me want to cry. I remember always being so upset anytime the teachers weren't happy with me and then I think about me now and how I'm always expecting people to think the worst of me or be hiding that they don't like me or always expecting the other shoe to drop even if they've been telling me I'm doing a good job because I'm bad and I need them to just tell me why and what exactly they're holding back

And I've got a review coming up at work soon with my bosses since it's almost my 6 year anniversary of working there and all I can think is oh good now they can stop telling me how great I am and how happy they are to have me there and just tell me everything I'm doing wrong because I know the compliments aren't right and they have to have been holding back what all my issues are.

And I think something in my upbringing may have kind of fucked my head up... just a little bit

#peeerrhaps i should start looking at therapists again to work on some isssssuuuueeesss....#the last one was not that helpful but she was the first person i looked at and tried and she did well enough #just didnt really get deep into anything under the surface #i literally cant take compliments. like idk if its like a youre supposed to be humble so dont let it go to your head thats turned into #dont internalize any praise ever but if anyone ever complains about you then its real and you should internalize it times a thousand #or maybe its just a i kinda hate myself and dont feel like i deserve good things or anything ever #i think some of it is im ashamed about my stupid inability to get to work on time. like if i force it and work myself up #maybe i can be on time like a few days in a row #but the momentum drops so fucking fast and then im back to well im here before we open even if i was supposed to be here 20 minutes ago #but also like i get there before stuff is going on and like its not that late and i havent mentioned the issue because #i feel like if i did theyd say oh well then just get here at the later time youve been arriving close to its fine #but then stupid brain will go okay so this is the new time which means that im going to shift to arriving even later #so i just have to keep relying on the shame and guilt and panic to get me there in the mornings #which is not fun #i just hope the review goes well other than my bad time management #i feel like it will... hopefully. theyve talked about possibly 'promoting me' which would be me doing the same stuff ive been doing #basically but then id just have the title (and pay 🤞) to go along with that #i dont want to get my hopes up but we'll see what happens #im going to like try super hard to get to work on time until the review though and like after but still #come on clarissa do a good job

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narniadreams · 2 years

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HELLOW long time no see!! well maybe not really that long but it’s been a while, sorry, hello!! i am still alive! let me make a list of things that happened :D

had a week where i was super busy because a lot of people wanted to hang out with me before i went to south korea

got sick during the last 3 days

flew to south korea (directly was good, vegan food was good, being sick was bad and also a baby cried a lot, bad)

arrived in south korea safely!!!

got to my hotel safely!!!

saw so many one rooms/apartments/places to stay, however you want to call it, then took a mandatory pcr test, saw more rooms

liked none of them, called my mom while i was crying and panicking at night

had problems with my credit card, debit card, bank and money stuff

solved those problems. saw more rooms. picked a room. moved to the room.

went to my first day of class and understood hardly anything!!!

tomorrow i don’t have to go to school though because a typhoon is coming hooray!!!

but hey at least my cold is getting better haha