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tennessoui · 4 months

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In the assigned married fic, has Anakin even begun to process Padme saying that both of them will be moving to Naboo together? Like, they spoke earlier in the chapter about Anakin moving in with her on Coruscant, but Obi-Wan apparently spilled the beans about a much more permanent relocation to Naboo, and I am looking forward to Anakin's response to that, once he gets through processing everything else and remembers that part of the "conversation"....

i think padmé views moving to naboo more as a possibility than a future concrete plan -- the offer to be a permanent advisor on naboo is something she'd like to discuss with anakin as her husband before taking it or rejecting it. she says there's a lot of work she still wants to do in the senate, and she's probably thinking that it will be a few years before she would be able to go anyway. definitely after the war, but in her mind, she thinks anakin has every intention to leave the order after the war's over....because he kind of told her that. at least, in her mind he did: (from chapter 1)

“[Obi-Wan] asked me if I planned to leave the Order after the war,” he tells his wife. “And I lied, and then I think he began to support me. That’s what he looked like, anyway.” Padmé blinks at him, eyelashes falling slowly onto the jut of her cheek and then rising. “That’s good then,” she says, sounding hesitant. “That he supports us.” “Yeah,” Anakin replies, raising his hand to tuck a tendril of hair behind her ear. “Though…I’m sorry you had to lie,” she says, pressing forward until their faces are only a hand’s width apart. “Hopefully…” she trails off, biting her lip. Then she shakes her head slightly, and her mouth turns up into a smile as if she cannot help herself. “Hopefully he will not take the truth so hard.”

so anakin never says what lie he told obi-wan, he just says that he lied when asked if he was going to leave the Order, and that lie made obi-wan support him.

from an outsider's perspective, especially a biased outsider who is married to one of the insiders and believes them to have a future together, padmé's immediate understanding of this is that obi-wan asked if he was going to leave the order and anakin lied to him and told him he planned to stay and obi-wan began to support their marriage because he thinks he won't be losing anakin (padmé, who has three braincells, has long since realized obi-wan's obsessed with her husband)

and that's why she's smiling at the end (and also why they have sex at the fade to black) -- she believes anakin has just told her that when the war ends, he'll leave the Order to be with her and build a future together <3 so the offer to go to naboo is an option she can talk to her husband about, but she knows that anakin is going to no longer be a jedi....and if he's not a jedi, and she's not a senator....what's keeping them on coruscant?

BUT it's not just obi-wan that's feeling a bit catty during that dinner party scene, so i intentionally wrote padmé as putting this idea forward as less of a possibility and more of a done deal that she knows anakin will accept -- she talks about it like it's great big BACK OFF signs picketed around anakin because obi-wan is the biggest threat to their marriage in the entire galaxy and she's always known that

(but also no anakin has not begun to process that whole thing - but padmé, who now realizes they're NOT on the same page, is absolutely going to bring it up post-haste in the next chapter)

#asks #a more perfect union #obikin #sorry for all the words no one's really asked about padmé's perspective in this and i jumped at the opportunity to talk about it lol #i really have enjoyed writing these characters being their worst selves #like padmé isn't the bad guy in this story but she's definitely a wife who is in love with her husband and WILL fight to keep him #theres a moment ive written in the next chapter where shes like i put my husband above the republic and you should put your wife there too #because she did she would she said she did in canon asking vader to run away together as the republic burnt around them #her priorities when pushed against a rock and a hard place are very much: anakin then the republic #and the crux and tension of this fic is that anakin's are very clearly: obi-wan then the republic (which is just obi-wan again)#then padmé then the jedi order

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givemewallywestorgivemedeath · 1 year

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Who do you think are the most OP members of the FlashFam? I think it's difficult, the majority of them has almost the same powers.

Oh easy.

Wally, Bart and Barry.

I think we forget sometimes that the vast majority of the crazy feats of godlike powers we see from speedsters are coming from these three. Wally, Bart and Barry have insane connections to the speedforce and their skill level is unmatched. What these three can do is by no means normal or average. They are op as fuck.

You have to remember that even... let's say Max Mercury is nowhere even remotely near their skill level. And we're talking about Max Mercury. The guy who knows more about the speedforce than anyone else and trained for years to master it. But Max (although he was faster than Bart when Bart was a child) isn't on the same playing field as Wally, Bart and Barry. Max couldn't enter the speedforce without Bart's assistance, Max couldn't leave the speedforce without Barry and Wally's assistance, Max can't time travel to a destination of his own choice, Max can't speed steal or fully pause time, ect ect. Max is one of the most skilled, most knowledgeable, most trained and most respected speedsters of all time. Max is the cream of the crop. You won't find another speedster better than Max. He's a shining example of what's humanely possible for speedsters to achieve.

But Wally, Bart and Barry aren't humanely possible. Those three are insane.

I'm actually going to make a tier list to explain this

ABSOLUTELY FUCKING INSANE:

(AKA actually gods. Can do literally every speedster ability. Faster than literally everything. Beyond op.)

Wally West (now), Bart Allen, Barry Allen

TOP LEVEL OF SPEEDSTER ABILITY:

(AKA the top of the top. Insane skills. Insane knowledge. Insane speed. Likely has a vast amount of speedster abilities other than running. Likely faster than most other speedsters. Op af)

Max Mercury, Jay Garrick, Savitar, Eobard Thawne, Thad Thawne, Irey West (future)

ABOVE AVERAGE:

(AKA one of the following: above average speed, above average connection or above average abilities. Likely has one or two speedster abilities other than running. Slightly op but still beatable)

Irey West (now), August Heart, Edward Clariss, Jess Quick, Alinta (future), Hunter Zoloman (when connected), Lia Nelson, Jai West (future)

AVERAGE:

(AKA average connection, average speed, average abilities. Potentially an additional speedforce ability but no crazy speedforce abilities. Not op.)

Wally West (past), Ace West, Avery Ho, Jesse Chambers, Daniel West, Christina Alexandrova, Jenni Ognats, Jai West (now), John Fox, Red Death, Don Allen, Dawn Allen, Meena Dhawan, Anatole, David Edwards (after), Judy Garrick, Bar Torr, Fastbak, Swoosh, Terri Magnus, Sela Allen, Jonathan Allen, Carrie Allen, Barry West, S'Kidd Flash, Thondor Allen, Jace Allen, Blaire Allen, Nora Allen, Agent Flashling, Danica Williams, Cherub

TRIES REALLY HARD:

(AKA normal connection but below average speed and abilities. Extremely beatable.)

Baroness Blitzkrieg, Johnny Chambers, Bebeck, Cassiopeia, Harold Christos, Inertia 2, Killspeed, Mayfly, Millie Heyday, Runaround Sue, Wind, Pellmell, Poprocket, Velocity, Gabriella Rossetti

OH NO:

(AKA needs outside assistance to access speedforce (suit, drugs, formula), faulty connection, connection is killing them, can only access powers for short periods of time, ect)

Jai West (past), Alinta (now), Owen Mercer, Eliza Harmon, Jerry McGee, Meloni Thawne (*see notes), Gregor Gregorovich, Boleslaw Uminski, Joanie Swift, Mas, Menos, David Edwards (previously), Keigo, Ezra Gill, Henry Cosgei, Jaculi, Jaculi 2, Jimmy Olsen, Xane Swift

So yeah, as you can see by this, although all speedsters with a functioning speedforce connection are technically capable of being op, speedsters rarely actually are op.

We're just really used to op speedsters because we're used to whatever the fuck Wally, Bart and Barry have going on. But they are very much not representative of speedsters as a whole.

Do you guys remember how fast Wally used to be? When he was younger and struggling with his speed and stuff? THAT'S THE GODDAMN AVERAGE. Wally AT HIS SLOWEST was still faster than every single goddamn speedster he came across, including Jay, Johnny, Jesse, the Blue Trinity, the Red Trinity, ect. HE JUST WASN'T FASTER THAN BARRY OR EOBARD SO HE THOUGHT HE WAS THE WORST. Because Wally is fucking insane. He's an insane human being. Anyway, Wally at his slowest is the typical representation of an average speedster. That's how they typically are.

#dc #dc comics #speedsters #speedforce #flash fam #ranking #k to explain some things. first none of the names are ranked by order. so I'm not ranking them 1 Wally 2 Bart ect #they're only ranked by category. not ranked within the categories #Irey isn't in the insane category because she's actually not supposed to be faster than Wally. she's just more skilled than him #so shes good (like really good) but she doesn't surpass her fathers speed. so im putting her in top until proven otherwise #lia is in above average despite not having super speed because the stuff she has going on is INSANE #the same thing applies to Jai #Meloni is in oh no because she is technically a speedster?? she's just never used her powers in a comic? but she's listed in universe as #being a speedster and Owen inherited his speed from her. so. idk. my only conclusion is that she doesn't know how to use her speed #or she doesn't use it to spite her father.#mas y menos are in oh no because they need to hold hands to access their powers #oh and Hunter's ranking is soley off of his speedforce connection. not his time powers. Hunter's time powers are insane #i tried to stay main universe but i couldn't resist putting in some alt universe speedsters #oh and Eobard and Thad aren't in the god level because Eobard has been reset meaning that he isn't really timeless like Wally and Bart are #and hes not literally the speedforce like Barry is (no matter how hard he tries)#and Thad isn't there because... well he was a good match for Bart when Bart was really little. but i don't really think Thad is any more #like... even remotely. Bart has surpassed Thad by a lot.#Bart was literally the speedforce at one point. hes insane #also Hunter WAS a god? but for unrelated reasons (his time powers) but getting connected to the speedforce nerfed him

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squeakadeeks · 3 months

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moodboard for this past week ❤️

#they should invent a grad school thats not fucking insane #i'm hanging in there but im the most unwell i've been in AWhile #this week was just horrible #there was already the freezer food incident but it also started off with a very severe pain episode thats putting me in constant woe #even mundane motion has been agonizing which is McAwesome bc we had a lab inspection which involved moving hundreds of pounds of equipment #during which we found a blackwidow and rats which we had to deal with and was a whole thing psychologically on top of the physical toll #the new class fiasco is still popping off and i had to respond to at this point over 400 emails in the fleeting moments outside of lab #AND A STUDENT TRIED TO FINANCIALLY BRIBE THEIR WAY INTO THE CLASS ? ?? ?? ?????#then the instructor wanted to use me as a guinea pig and i had to test new circuit boards but I wasnt given any time to do so properly #i had to test them plus get them operational and deal with my incoming students all in a frantic 10 minute window #im in charge of running our meetings too but the instructor was interrupting and having side conversations that made it really hard-#to train the other people on the new equipment in a smooth manner #which meant that a bunch of people had to keep me after to ask questions which made me late for my drs appointment #where i found out i cant get the new covid vaccine bc my heart and blood levels arnt stable enough #and joanns lost an expensive+critical fabric order of mine+i had to give a big presentation this week on my research that was stressful #and my inbox is still blowing up from being needed all over the place between teaching lab and classes and yall i am. so so tired.#im in so much pain and so stressed out #debating the ethics of turning into a pile of lint to escape my responsibilities and mortal frame

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bachirasbodyguard · 1 year

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I think the interaction between Kaiser and Isagi at the end of chapter 203 is very important and foreshadows how Isagi and Kaiser's (and Ness') relationships will change soon. Especially since Kaiser had to admit that Isagi outplayed him at the end of the BM v MSC game, and Ness' following freakout. Look at this panel of Kaiser holding ness by his hair, essentially making him bow down:

We've seen Kaiser do this on multiple occasions.

When Isagi loses consciousness, there is this (in my opinion) very significant panel of Kaiser simultaneously releasing Ness and grabbing Isagi's hair in the same exact way.

I see it as a sort of crude metaphor for exchange that makes believe think Kaiser will try to replace Ness with Isagi, who has now proven more interesting to Kaiser. Not just to entertain himself or act on any other sort of personal feelings he has towards Isagi, but, most importantly, to put him in his place (the same way Kaiser has Ness under his thumb).

This is idea is further established simply by how the last panel is framed:

Isagi, no matter the circumstance and how you put it, is on his knees in front of Kaiser.

Remember this?

He finally really has. While it happened probably not how Kaiser had envisioned, he still has Isagi kneeling in front of him, proving his superiority as the player who endured.

But Kaiser did have to admit his (small, but nevertheless) defeat, and knowing how prideful he is, that must have been a blow. That makes be believe that he will be working very hard to somehow get Isagi on his side and crush him into submission the same way he has with Ness.

#annnyywayyyyy #It's just driving me crazy how. Kaiser ordered him to kneel and after how hard Isagi worked to not fall into Kaiser's little shcemes and #not show any weakness he did #DRIVING ME CRAZYYY #i'm in love with the dynamic Kaiser/Ness/Isagi have between them. i think their relationship is very interesting #Also I can't tell if Ness is like. in love with kaiser or really into s&m and this secretly gets him off or is just a sad little german bo #or all of those combined #maybe he's about to go full on Joker and shoot kaiser #anywayy #watch me be proven wrong next chapter like a clown probably #blue lock #isagi yoichi #michael kaiser #alexis ness #mine

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deeplyridiculouslyinlove · 2 months

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Ranking Wheel of Time Characters and their Narrative Arcs

I've been thinking about a post like this since probably book 8, so here we go. My ranking of the arcs of the major characters in the Wheel of Time book series, and separately my ranking of those actual characters (because they are not the same!!)

Arcs:

Nynaeve

I could say a literally never-ending amount of things about my darling Nynaeve. I think she has the most internal development of any character in the series, which makes her feel especially human to me. Getting to watch her learn that her anger is rooted in fear and a lack of control and to confront that was so powerful and it felt very real. Watching her grow from hating Moiraine to standing beside Moiraine at the end with Rand made me so emotional. And speaking of Rand, it was so nice to have one of the original Emonds Fielders with him in the later books to witness his descent--I think it added depth and believability both to her character and her position having cared for the younger ones when they were kids, and also really helped humanize Rand. While I tend to think Nynaeve's relationship with Lan is really random since they barely speak to each other when they fall over their skis in love with one another (apparently), by the end of the books I'd accepted it and it also made me emotional when she went behind Lan's back to find all the other Malkieris to ride into battle with him. I just feel really proud of Nynaeve and want the world for her and I'm glad that she was given a real growth arc the series.

2. Mat

So I grew from thinking Mat was a bit annoying and childish, to finding him fine as a character but listening to his chapters at 1.6 speed because I didn't care about carousing at inns or random bands of fighters, to having his chapters be my favorite. And I think that's because Mat really evolves throughout the series in a way that still feels very believable and true to the same person/character. He's is written so well as a character learning lessons while staying true to the core of who he was in the first book. I felt a lot of pride for Mat when he rescued Moiraine, and although I saw some chatter by folks on the internet that they'd be fine if the Daughter of the Nine Moons thing doesn't happen in the show, I actually really liked his relationship with Tuon because it was one of the few relationships we saw actually build and develop slowly. Despite being a fated relationship, they also spend time together and develop a rapport. It was a fated marriage not fated love, and I thought that worked much better than the fated loves of Rand’s polycule. I also liked that Mat and Tuan's relationship had some ambiguity until the end; although they clearly cared for one another, we never saw them come to really understand one another, which felt authentic to the situation they were in. Mat is also one of the very few men in these books who actually recognizes that there are things he doesn't know and doesn't need to be involved in, and I appreciate that from a male character in what ultimately remains a pretty patriarchal world despite RJ's structural changes to society (I can back up this statement about patriarchy, but that is a whole separate post). I think this is likely at least in part because Mat doesn't engage with the Power, which is the part of the books that most upholds patriarchal stereotypes and values. Now I'm rambling about Mat more than his arc, but I think he both has a lot of depth and grows internally in significant ways and I really appreciate it!

3. Aviendha

I love Aviendha as a character, and I think her arc is another really good example of slow internal growth. We see get to see her go from Maiden to Wise One to the person who discovers the new message hidden in Rhuidian and what that means for her entire people. We see her struggle with what it means to have left the Waste and what she feels is right for the future. And all of this without that many point-of-view chapters compared to other characters! Aviendha's relationship with Rand also feels the most authentic to me of any of his three women. We actually get to see their dynamic build and see them spending time together, it’s not just like “oh I’m fated to love him!” They also spend time apart and Aviendha doesn't spend that time pining over him, but rather focused on her own goals and the bigger picture. From the narrative, I get why they like each other and also why they are a good match for each other. I don't love her getting injured in the way she does at the Last Battle because I'm not really sure what purpose it serves (I guess it's the ultimate sacrifice for an Aiel to not be able to walk or fight?), but if my biggest qualm with her arc is only at the very end, I'll still rank it quite high.

4. Egwene

When I started reading the books and talking to friends about the gender dynamics in them and the female characters, so many of them mentioned how Egwene gets one of the best arcs in the series. And while I don't disagree with that (I have her ranked in the top 5 still!), I think the fact that Egwene is not a ta'veren in the series really hurts her arc in the later books. Once she's Amyrlin, and particularly once she goes back to the tower as Amyrlin, I feel like she starts to get plot armor that detracts from her actual development. All she has to do is talk and people are completely swayed to her side in a way that I think sort of stunts her internal growth. I loved her time with the Wise Ones in the Waste and with the Aiel and I think it really showcased her eagerness and dedication in a way I related to, and it made her growth in Tel'aran'rhiod and becoming the Amyrlin feel really deserved. Her ending was tragic and powerful and somehow it both doesn't feel like what she deserved but also feels like it lives up to Egwene and I feel really conflicted about it!! I'm was very meh on the Gawyn stuff, since I don't think it really added anything and he's a bit of a downer of a character--honestly, Egwene is the character in the books I most wish had just not had to have a romantic relationship. That said, unlike a lot of other relationships in the seires, we at least see Egwene's feelings for Gawyn develop over time in the dream world so it wasn't as frustrating for me as some other characters' romantic arcs.

5. Rand

For me Rand's and Egwene's arcs are really really close in terms of how much I like them, but I think there are things missing in the execution of Rand's arc that make it a bit lower for me--had it been done slightly better (from my perspective) I think it would have edged out Egwene. I really *want* to empathize with Rand starting around book 11 when his PTSD and the weight of everything else he’s carrying really starts to impact him. But because he spent the first five books whining about how everyone is trying to use him as a puppet (and particularly suspecting literally any woman with power before he had been given any reason to do so), his later arc doesn’t lead well into him then being someone you’re supposed to empathize with in my opinion. Particularly because his whole arc in the later books is about love and compassion, but I don't feel like we get that from him in the early books? I find it very confusing. I think for that progression to work we really needed a part of his arc where trusting and/or showing compassion to someone leads to serious harm, then he turns hard, and then he remembers the need for compassion. Maybe I’ve just forgotten it but I really can’t think of anything at all like that first step in the books? He distrusts the people who eventually hurt him? And things generally work out for him, even though he’s struggling internally? Anyway, this rating is higher than it otherwise would be because of how much I *want* it to work because having a chosen one who so clearly struggles with the weight that destiny places on him is interesting and the madness angle is also interesting to me. Oh also, I think Rand should have actually died at the end and that not doing so makes his arc more boring, sorryyyyy.

6. Faile

Faile is another character I really wanted more for. I hated the weird dynamics in her relationship with Perrin, but I could have liked them together without the physical abuse and if the power dynamics had felt more consensual and didn't have this whole element of her expecting Perrin to behave towards her in a way that he clearly didn't want to. Her being the lady to his lord was cute! I also liked Faile's progression from being a Hunter of the Horn to guarding the horn at the end. I like how self suffiicient she was and how she was able to find a way to combine what she was born for/raised for and what her parents wanted for her (being a noblewoman) with what she wanted (adventure and love).

7. Perrin

I have very few real issues with Perrin's arc and I’m sure other people liked it a lot. My ranking it relatively low is much more that it bored me and I left the series unsure of what it was trying to say than it being a bad arc or doing Perrin a disservice. I hated Perrin's relationship with Faile, and I hated that I hated it because (as discussed above) I think it had a lot of potential. Like Mat, I appreciated that Perrin did not think he needed to be involved in everything nor that he was always right, and I found his growth from boy to man quite believable and that it took place over the course of the books in a way that was well-constructed. I found the whole question of hammer vs axe and his contemplation of the Way of the Leaf to be really interesting! But I'm not sure I fully grasped the resolution of that debate and what the entire focus on it in the narrative was trying to say. And I feel the same about his struggle with the wolf side of him. Is the point just that violence is sometimes needed? And/or that it eats us up from inside? (But also that we have to accept that?)

8. Elayne

I want to do my best to separate Elayne from her arc, since I personally don't love her character for reasons purely of personal preference. I think the reasons her arc specifically is lower for me is that I feel like we don't get to see her growing into being a queen, since one of her primary character traits is that she is already so royal when they all meet her. I think the decision to have her win her crown in Caemlyn with a battle where they just snuck up behind the other forces was a weak one -- why couldn't they have defeated these people before if it was that easy? I also don't love that she gets no time to like learn how to be a queen before she is more focused on becoming a mother. The whole pregnancy arc doesn't sit quite right with me. She sleeps with Rand literally once and it's basically just to get pregnant? But this just builds off of what I dislike about how she just decides she's in love with Rand one day because she is fated to be. Give me the scene where they bond over war strategy and thinking like rulers like six books earlier instead of in the last book! It also seems like there's no reason she and Aviendha couldn't have become friends before realizing they both liked Rand instead of because they are forced into proximity by that fact, and I also feel like she and Rand should have spent actual time together before falling for each other--to my mind the way her part of the polycule goes down weakens Elayne's relationships with both Aviendha and Rand, which otherwise could have been interesting.

9. Moiraine

I have far too much to say about my baby Moiraine. I'm including New Spring in these arcs, and reading that made me want to reread the whole series in a new light. I love her. I love her I love her I love her. And to me New Spring makes her arc in the main series both more powerful and more tragic. Seeing in New Spring just how determined she is and also how much self-doubt she carries and how much her Aes Sedai serenity of the later books is disguising inner turmoil is so rewarding. I wish we had gotten to see so so much more of it. I know that she has to be mysterious to our main characters, but I don't think she has to be mysterious to the readers, particularly once we are more than a few books into a fourteen book series. To that end, I know why she had to go away (she is the Merlin character after all!), but I wish she had come back a few book sooner and we could have seen literally any interiority about reckoning with her time in the Tower of Ghenjei. The Moiraine in New Spring would have been going CRAZY both leading up to knowing she had to go through that archway and while stuck in the tower--even if she was being tortured, which she also would have withstood for a while. The fact that she couldn't take action that it was such a passive way of supporting Rand and his mission would have killed her, but also she would have been so very resolute, and I wish we could have seen that more. Instead, she just like shows up right before the last battle, speaks her piece, goes to help Rand (presumably thinking she's going to die??), and we see none of it from her POV! She never sees Siuan again and because we can't see into her mind that's just like...chill?? And obviously I hate the book pairing her with Thom, particularly her *offering to give up her abilities* for him. I see what it adds for his character arc, but what does it add for hers? Plus there is literally no reason to remove her powers and give her that powerful ter'angreal instead. That's just RJ's obsession with disempowering women and I despise it.

10. Siuan

Oh Siuan. My other baby Siuan. I'm only ranking her arc this high because I think it had a lot of potential to be telling an interesting story, but I think her ending was so horrible I can barely think about it. There was so much potential here to be telling a story about how you can have power and influence and be important even if you are less powerful and that the strength to manipulate and steamroll people is not the only way to make a difference, but I feel like this would have been a much more interesting message if she was the only (or one of the few) powerful women to get knocked down like this rather than it happening to literally every woman with power at the beginning of the series in one way or another. I particularly hated that with Siuan they did this knocking her down a peg in a way that made her younger and pretty for an old man (when she was only like 40 in the first place I might add!)--and she also started acting younger in a way that felt strange. I liked her teaching Egwene, but why couldn't she have some of the teacher vibes Moiraine did? And the way she dies with no one noticing or caring and it making basically no difference to the plot is so horrible. And, I'm sorry, it's not what the character deserved. Nor was it in line with the message I thought her arc was trying to send about the ability to have an impact no matter how unpowerful in traditional ways. And it happens because she doesn't stay with a man?!?! No one even knows she mattered after she was deposed and it’s all so unfair.

11. Lan

I feel like Lan doesn't really grow that much as a character since he spends the entire series basically just expecting to die in various ways at different times. Even with New Spring I don't feel like we get a good sense of what his character is meant to be doing besides impacting other characters in the series. I am not against his relationship with Nynaeve, but I don't think the books flesh it out very well. And I'm still mad he ends the series mad at Moiraine--where is their New Spring dynamic of him vibing with her even when he's annoyed with her? Obviously his leading the Malkieri into the blight really hit me in the feels and was a great culmination of his plight, however, which is why I still think the arc deserves an honorable mention.

12. Thom

Thom's arc is basically just from hating Aes Sedai to marrying Moiraine, and getting continually paired with weirdly young women. I guess he learns to overcome prejudice based on his nephew's death? I do like the role he plays with Rand and Mat and their respective character development as they grow up from the Two Rivers to adventurers, but I'm not sure that's really his arc or development. But for that I'm giving him a higher ranking than his Moiraine arc alone deserves.

13. Tuan

I don't think think Tuan gets that much of an arc. While she becomes Empress, she doesn't seem to grow or change her mind on things during the series, and mostly she puts aside things she doesn't like very much with intentions of dealing with them later. BUT I like how her and Mat challenge each other and engage with each other, and I think the internal growth is somewhat implied or is something that would have happened if we had had more time with her. I wish the entire Seanchan plot was more resolved at series end, but that's not specific to Tuan.

14. Loial

This may be controversial, but I don't like Loial's arc very much! I don't think he needed to get married! I'm glad he seems happy about it in the end, but it feels unnecessary. I loved him adventuring and writing his book and being sort of childlike in a really endearing way, but everything with his mom and with Erith took him out of the story for a long time and seemed to be sending the message that ultimately everyone wants to settle down. Let him explore and write his book and be a late bloomer! Idk.

15. Min

I am ranking Min even below the characters that only have a fraction of an arc because I loved Min so much in the earlier books and I hate the way the series treated her subsequently. When we first meet her she is determined to be fully herself, despite a talent that makes her stand out and a personality inclined against confrontation. She's brave and interesting! I hated watching her become more ladylike for Rand, and for a while essentially being absolutely nothing more than a lover and comfort for Rand. I really wish we had had more lingering payoff for the many books that Min was reading and trying to parse out what the prophecies meant, but it felt like Cadsuane was basically like "yes I agree" and then...it was no longer about Min having figured it out?

And just for fun, here would be my list of these same characters from ones I like most to ones I like least (although I like them all tbh!!)

Characters:

Moiraine (main trilogy + new spring)

Nynaeve

Egwene

Moiraine (main trilogy only)

Aviendha

Mat

Siuan (main trilogy AND main trilogy + new spring)

Loial

Rand

Lan (main trilogy + new spring)

Perrin

Lan (main trilogy only)

Faile

Elayne

Tuan

Thom

#no one asked for this but here we are!#sorry if your fave isn't here I literally just picked the people I thought had significant character arcs #plus a few folks we spent a lot of time with so it felt necessary I guess #I feel like I got grumpy in a lot of my reviews but I actually really like the characters and putting them in order was really hard!!#I just wished for more for many of them because they deserved better #narratively speaking #wot book spoilers #wheel of time

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