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#azrael's cave
shanicetjn · 2 years
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We’ll Be Alright
Make him blushy by being mushy.
Title based on OuiOui’s song.
Doodled - 9 July 2022
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zahri-melitor · 6 months
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Happy 30th anniversary of Robin #1.
On this day in 1993, Azbats tried to strangle Tim in the Cave.
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This was generally regarded as a bad decision by all involved.
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Dick Grayson has never forgiven JPV for this.
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Don’t talk about your mutual Robin in any sort of bad way, JPV, or Dick will FIND YOU.
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He’s ALWAYS WATCHING YOU.
(Robin #1, Gotham Knights #14, Azrael #91)
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Lost Fic #175
1. Hi! I've been trying to find this fic I read some time ago that I've had no luck trying to find again. It's through the ages and Aziraphale also has the role of Death/Azrael (that Crowley is unaware of until the events of Armageddon't). Not sure if it's been deleted but I would love to read it again. Thanks for your work :) - anon
2. Hello! I remember reading, but can no longer find a fic where, essentially the summary was after the fall god plops down Aziraphale in heaven and tells everybody to play nice, that if they break the new angel theyre not getting another one. - @ifirestone
3. Thank you for your blog! I'm looking for a fic I lost. I remember that Aziraphale gifted Crowley a plant that Crowley babied and that one of Crowley's original plants shielded the gifted plant from the sun at one point. Any thoughts on where I can find it? - @insertwittycomment
4. Hi there! I am looking for a fic that I read circa 2019-2020. I remember Aziraphale and Crowley taking a trip to the countryside, I believe Warlock and Adam were invited along. Aziraphale was having a mental breakdown that was a long time coming. Throughout the ages, in order to deal with heaven's orders and to let himself grieve, he had visited a cave nearby to where they are vacationing, where he accidentally imbued sheep with angelic power and the sheep acted really weird. There was a bit where Aziraphale snaps back at Crowley and insinuates that he can never be more than a demon. Sorry I can't remember much more, a lot of the plot was building to something but I never got to finish it. - anon
5. Hi! I'm looking for a particular fic I can not remember the name of. But in it Crowley accidently has female genitalia and runs back to his flat because he thought Azi was disturbed or something. It's fairly short and good. Thank you! - anon
If you know any of these fics please include the number in your reply! Thank you :)
- Mod D
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robjn93 · 3 months
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i think an important arc that implicitly brings to life the parallels between broken brucebat and azbat is year 3, the one from batman 436 to 439, the one that sets the seeds for the introduction of tim drake, because it creates an interesting comparison between bruce and jpv/azrael at their lowest, both tampering with their 'base of operation' to disrespect the legacy of the inhabitant.
with bruce, for example, his inability to process jason's death got him ridding the manor of any sign of jason's existence and instead fixate on his role as batman. not just the crime fighting side, but the mythos as a whole - to the point where he almost called nightwing 'robin'. hanging onto the mythos that is so important to batman, ignoring bruce's wishes to mourn his own son. he is rejecting bruce’s side completely, the compassionate man who loved his children, and replacing it with the image of the strong, brute batman who pushes everyone bruce has ever loved away.
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for azrael, the need to find an identity and carve his own path on the mythos brought him to desecrate the batcave by introducing a shooting range with batman’s enemies as targets, because jpv has been taught that batman would never kill, making the suit shaped based on azrael’s, a judge and executioner, what batman was never supposed to be, and tarnishing his relationships with robin and commissioner gordon.
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azbat’s relationship with robin is especially interesting because the suit being a symbol of hope could only be achieved by the cloth being used, the circus costume, filled with pain and grief but also sweet memories and hopes for a new life, for dick grayson as ward and helper of bruce and batman. that very suit was now being rejected by azbat, because ‘batman needs a robin but azbat needs nobody’ and, in the same place where dick grayson was shown the light, the suit of batman, for the first time, now tim drake was being nearly choked to death by azbat gone berserk.
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but then there is it. bruce ‘successfully’ manages to witness zucco’s death, what batman has always tried to teach dick against, betraying his robin, the way azbat has finally destroyed tim, showing his 'worthlessness' in the face of the true strength of azbat and kicked him out of the cave, betraying his robin, and their vulnerable side comes out. they shudder at the idea that they might have ever wished for what had happened, clinging onto the morals that become more and more warped and confused, onto their job as batman and their duty to gotham.
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‘taking the cowl off’ was the only thing that could save them, tho with azbat was more literal. in bruce’s case, questioning the usefulness of a batman without a robin was a clear sign that his work was not needed, not in those conditions, that he put a child (tim) in danger because of his own recklessness, therefore ‘taking the power from batman’.
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I can't sleep and Since my brain is filled with "A date with death here's a tiny fic??? On my brain mixing Obey me and A date with death Enjoy! A little background this is after the little stu t MC made with the candle in the Reaper's cave. Now it has been a whike since I played that lesson so forgive the timeline inaccuracies and any terms that are inaccurate. Also... probably ooc of the characters. MC's background is that they are the child of Grim/Casper and the MC of a date with death. I am aware that the game is inclusive when it came to preferred pronouns in a date with death so I tried to make it Gender neutral and as inclusive as possible to MC's other parent that is not Grim. So apologies if it flows wierdly. Spoilers for both obey me and a date with death I apologize.
Obey me!MC is the child of Grim/Casper from a date with death.
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After the whole event on the reaper cave MC huffs as they finally laid down to bed. Hugging the familiar plushy that their Father gave to them. The Plushie is well kept and looks fairly new at a glance.
MC sighs one more time as they snuggled the axolotl plushie. "Azrael... Dad's going to be so mad when he finds out about my stunt! He's going to say I'm took after my other parent too much!" MC whines into the soft plush of the stuffed toy. MC whule they didn't explain it to the brothers knew what theu were doing when they transferred their Candle's essence into Beel's own. However they were prepared for the consequences if any. Plus it's not like they were going to die not with how they obviously took after their other Mortal Parent.
A few days pass and all seems well the brothers and MC as well as the Royals and Angels plus Solomon had a little get together at the Demon King's castle. A little treat to wind down after all that has happened. However it seems that MC has gotten too complacent as someone suddenly appeared. Someone who is all too familiar with MC.
Diavolo while apprehensive about the sudden appearance of a reaper gave a friendly yet domineering aura befitting of his status as a Prince. "Greetings Reaper! To what do we owe you the pleasure for your visit?" He asked politely.
The Reaper wore black clothing and his Hair is white and long and he has striking red eyes. Similar to Lucifer's but dufferent still. Everyone is far too aware of the head on stare that he has with MC. Alarmed there is a look of anger towards MC.
Mammon ever MC's protector pulled them behind him as if to shield them from the Reaper's stare. Paying no heed to Diavolo's words he simply opemed his mouth and uttered words that confuses the immortals in the room.
"Soulbaby...You know what you did wrong yes?" MC despite themselves blushed at the familiar nickname given to them by what they knew sprouted from an inside Joke between their parents. Slowly they mobed from behind Mammon despite his blurts of protest and pouted.
"Dad... Please don't call me that in front of them!" Theu whined petulant like a child. As theu slowly moved towards the front from where the others are surrounding them like a wall seperating MC from their Parent.
"DAD!? MC WHAT?!" Mammon shouts to which there were other noises of agreement. Sheepishly MC smiles at them and weakly murmurs
"I um.. really wasn't supposed to tell about that little fact?" They heard a chuckle from their Dad amused at the reactions from everyone
"Yes MC here is my child. My soulbaby if you will." He added amused as MC's eyes widened and they whined again at their father's teasing.
"Fascinating however all the paperwork in the human realm and MC's very own soul shows that they are mortal and very much Human" Diavolo finally speaks.
"Yes. I'd much rather keep it that way" the reaper gave a pointed glance to MC who looks abashed as they looked away.
"So I assume you're not here to take MC's soul from what she did at the reaper's cave?" Asked Lucifer as he absorbs everything.
"Yes and No." Answers the reaper. "I suppose it is time for introductions" the reaper paused for a bit as he looks at MC and then to the Demons and Angels briefly pausing as he laid eyes on Solomon. He raised a brow at Solomon but paid it no mind.
"What a fascinating gaggle of... Friends you have accumulated Soulbaby" he says despite another sound of protest from MC.
"You take far too much after sunshine..." he added as MC blushed. He then clear his throat as he started introducing himself. "As you are well aware I am a reaper and My name is Casper and I am MC's father." despite the topic already being laid out in the open the others still couldn't help but gape.
Solomon chuckles "So MC definitely knows what they were doing when they poured their essence to Beel's candle" MC pointedly tried to ignore their Father's stare but caved.
"Yes... Dad I'm sorry but I couldn't watch Beel fade away! Plus My soul can-" MC was stopped from their tirade by Casper flicking their forehead fondly.
"You take far too much after Sunshine, Soulbaby..." he says with a tired fond smile.
"But!" Mc starts to protest.
"I understand however you know that there will be due punishment. Once your term here is over we will be talking about it." He says leveling mc wigh a pointed stare. MC gulped but nodded nonetheless.
"Now that is over... " he turned to the rest still staring at him. Meeting their stares head on "now that you are aware of MC being my child... One wrong move and well I'll leave that up to your interpretation" He then turns to MC again.
"Dad..." MC warns to which Casper chuckles goodnaturedly but not without a bite.
"Do be careful Soulbaby. Tell me if they hurt you and I will be after their soul" he smiles menacingly. MC shakes their head they watch Casper about to leave. "Do visit back home me and sunshine miss you terribly" He whispers one last time as he leaves.
"No problem Dad" MC giggles and hugs their father. As soon as Casper left MC faced the demons, Angels and Fellow Human. Looking expectingly at them MC sighs privately to themselves.
"So where should we start... This might take a while"
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oifaaa · 1 year
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Have you ever read the knightfall arc? I’m kinda assuming not because it’s one of Tim’s and honestly not really in the fandom’s consciousness. But honestly if anyone deserves to be bullied more than Tim it’s Jean Paul Valley. Aka azrael. Aka the first “Batman who kills”.
Just please look at his Batman suit and tell me it’s not funny. The helmet! The pointy shoulder spikes! He’s emo and evilly good!!
When he gets pissed off at Robin he just bricks off his entrance to the bat cave!!!!! I’m not saying that Bruce and dick could have tried harder to stop Tim in a lonely place of dying but uhh… maybe masonry was the answer?
I have read the knightfall arc actually I got into comics way before I got into fandom but also the knightfall arc isn't in fandom consciousness?? Are you sure it's literally the iconic arc were Bruce gets folded like a ironing board and then decides that this random catholic dude hes just met would make a way better batman then literally anyone else - but yeah i guess i just don't really care about jean-paul enough to bully him
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scintillyyy · 9 months
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and underrated part of batman murderer/fugitive is the azrael: agent of the bat #91 issue tbh. we have:
tim continuing to sass the hell out of bruce
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less of a problem than bruce, and jpv is currently destroying the cave lmao.
dick and tim shading jpv and bruce, bruce being bruce, + bonus dick gives his little brother busy work
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and finally, bruce treating jpv how ppl think bruce treated tim post-red robin.
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glorious.
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fantastic-nonsense · 2 years
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wait so dick said to damian "you were my robin" which is sweet but also dick worked as batman with tim as his robin like, way before that, right? was it just not for very long?
Yeah, it didn't last very long! Prodigal was a limited arc that acted as an epilogue to the epic Knightfall saga, the story where Bane broke Bruce's back. After first enlisting Jean-Paul Valley/Azrael to temporarily become Batman while he recovered (it went badly), Bruce accepts Dick's offer to fill in for him as Batman while he goes on a globetrotting training spree to get back into fighting shape:
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"I can't replace you, Bruce...but I'd be lying if I said it's not going to be wild standing in for you." -Batman: Prodigal Part 1
Dick works as Batman with Tim as his Robin during this arc, and it's full of a lot of really fun and wholesome Dick-Tim moments. It's also explicitly temporary, and served mostly as an opportunity to grow Dick and Tim's relationship and as a character exploration for Dick about what it meant for him to take on the cowl. He's coming out of a personal rough patch (his relationship with Kory has fallen apart, the Titans have temporarily disbanded, he wasn't Bruce's first choice to fill in for him as Batman during Knightfall, and he feels like a failure in a lot of ways), and it shows in how he approaches being Batman in this arc. He starts off fairly excited, but by the end he's learning the toll the cowl takes on him:
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"Why was it such an effort to don the cape and cowl--to leave the Cave? Why does it feel like it should be finished? Did I put the Bat over my heart just to test myself-to get the memory of Two-Face off my back? No--I did it because Bruce asked me. Because he needed me. I gave my word, and that kind of promise-no matter how long the night-sticks for the duration."
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"And now he's Batman, the culmination of a dream he thought he'd always had. But it's been wrong. Like [Jean] Paul, he was just filling in for somebody else--marking time till the boss came home. And when it seemed to be going well-this. Failure."
Dick doesn't really consider himself to be Batman in this arc: despite acting as Batman for around a month or so, he really thinks of himself as "Nightwing, filling in for Batman." It's not until Bruce's death and Battle for the Cowl that he actually "becomes Batman" in the way we think of it. And thus, he doesn't really consider Tim to be "his" Robin.
Sidenote: honestly I really feel like Prodigal (and Resurrection of Ra's al Ghul) should be required reading before anyone touches Tim's Red Robin run and Dick and Damian's Batman & Robin book, because it it provides so much background context, character nuance, and story depth to that entire era and shows how far these characters have come: Dick saying Tim was now his "equal" in RR #1 wasn't a joke. He knew how far Tim had come since Prodigal:
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"Now I'm the Batman." "Saddled with the responsibility of your own tagalong Robin--and you're afraid I'll do what you did." "No, Tim...it's not you I'm worried about...not you at all." -Batman: Prodigal (1997) /// "He's my responsibility now. You're not my protege, Tim, you're my equal. My closest ally." -Red Robin #1 (2009)
Anyway, for Dick, Damian is "his Robin," and for Damian, Dick is "his Batman." While Tim worked as Robin alongside Dick as Batman in Prodigal, both of them knew it was temporary. Tim is his brother, but not his Robin; that's Damian. Tim still considered himself to be Bruce's Robin at the end of the day, and Dick only operated as Batman long-term with Damian at his side. It's also true in that scene that Dick was talking more from Damian's perspective than he was from his own:
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"Tim, Steph, Jason...we were all Robins to Bruce first...but you were my Robin." -Robin (2021) #5
Damian barely knew Bruce when he died in Final Crisis, and him not knowing anything about his dad was actually an explicit plotpoint that cropped up multiple times during Dick and Damian's time as Batman and Robin. More importantly, Bruce didn't make Damian Robin; Dick did. Damian staying Robin was Dick's choice, not Bruce's, and that makes all the difference in the context of Dick and Damian's conversation. So while Dick and Tim did work together as Batman and Robin, Damian is Dick's Robin at the end of the day.
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kittymaine · 6 months
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Cirice
Summary: Jean-Paul Valley is the Batman that Tim can never support, but unfortunately, Jean-Paul doesn't feel the same way about Tim as his Robin.
Whumptober fill day ten. Prompt: "Can't you see that you're lost without me?" from Cirice by Ghost.
Azrael terrified Tim more than he wanted to admit.
He was a religious zealot, more violent and brutal when taking down criminals than Bruce ever was, even in his darkest moments after Jason's death. He had no regard for innocent civilians caught in the crossfire of his fights. And, worst of all, he seemed to be severely mentally disturbed and only getting worse all the time.
Tim had barely been Robin for a month, had hardly had a chance to show Bruce what he had learned from Lady Shiva and King Snake, before Bane had snapped Bruce's back like a yard stick. Bruce had told Tim to work with Azrael, that he would be Batman until he could get back on his feet. But, again, Azrael absolutely terrified Tim.
"I can feel you, Robin," Jean-Paul said, despite having his back turned to where Tim was hiding in the deep shadows of the cave near where he had entered from the edge of the Drake property. "You cannot hide in the darkness."
It was only eight o'clock, but Azrael was already in full Batman regalia. The sun had barely set, but he had the huge metal suit already on, mask and all. Tim was dressed in his Robin suit, as well. He had changed in the cave, because he wanted to be ready to leave as soon as possible. In and out, that was what he had promised himself.
"I'm just here to get the Redbird, and then I'm gone," Tim said in a firm voice. He didn't bother to step out of the shadows, though, on the off chance that Azrael had heard him but didn't know where he was yet.
Jean-Paul straightened up from where he had been bent over a work table, all manner of mechanical bits and bobs strewn out around him. Tim was excellent with technology, but he had no idea what someone could make with the mess Jean-Paul had in front of him. When he had asked him once how he knew how to build his suit, he told Tim that the voice of God advised him on how to do it. Tim didn't ask him any more questions after that.
"Can you hear the rumbling?" Azrael asked, still facing away from Tim.
He could hear it, in fact. Even deep underground, the sound of thunder echoed down into the Bat cave. There was supposed to be a huge storm moving into Gotham that night, which was the primary reason Tim really wanted to take the Redbird out on patrol rather than running around in the rain. It would be a lot more comfortable to tool around Gotham in a shiny red sports car, that was certain.
"The city is calling us, Robin," Azrael said, turning to Tim, the glowing yellow slits in his metal helmet pointing directly at where Tim had been hiding. He clearly knew exactly where Tim was.
Reluctantly, Tim stepped out of the shadows. There was no use skulking around if Jean-Paul already knew where he was.
"That's why I'm getting the Redbird," Tim said slowly, trying to reign in his own frustration and the intense instinct he had to cut his losses and run. He wasn’t a coward, absolutely not! But, Azrael really set off every single alarm his lizard brain had on hand. He just wanted to get his car and get out of the cave as soon as possible. Azrael was putting every hair on his body on end.
"I know that your soul is not tainted, Robin. That's why I need you," Azrael implored, taking one big step toward Tim, his hands stretched out with his palms up.
Tim couldn't stop himself from jerking backward at his approach, his back pressing into the rough cave wall behind him.
Azrael took another two big steps forward, advancing suddenly. Tim startled hard, but there was nowhere to go. Almost before he could register it happening, Azrael was pinning him in against the wall, his metal gauntlets clanging against the rock where they pressed on either side of Tim’s head.
Tim's breath was coming fast. He could fight, he knew he could. He had been trained by one of the most merciless assassins in the world and then defeated one of the best martial artists in the world to show her he had mastered what she had taught him. But, Tim was still a thirteen-year-old boy and Azrael was a huge man covered in a high-tech suit of armor, pinning him against a cave wall deep underground. No one knew Tim was down there with him, no one would know where to look, and the only person who did was currently bedridden with a broken back.
"Can't you see that you're lost, Robin?" Azrael said, his tone gentle but the sound harsh through the vocoder in his helmet. His hand came close to Tim's face, almost like he was going to cup his cheek, before he changed his mind and instead put his hand on Tim's shoulder. Tim shivered. "Can't you see that you're lost without me? Robin needs Batman as much as Batman needs Robin."
Tim's heart was beating so fast. He could feel a cold sweat breaking out over his neck and back. He didn't think he could take any more of Jean-Paul's terrifying ramblings.
With a desperate kick to his shin, Tim was able to unbalance Azrael just long enough to duck out under one of his arms and run with all his strength as fast as he could for the cave he had used to enter the Bat cave.
"I can see through you, Robin!" Jean-Paul called after him, sounding suspiciously on the edge of tears. "I can see your heart!"
Tim bit back on the string of nasty names he wanted to shout over his shoulder and just kept running. Maybe Robin needed a batman, but Jean-Paul was not Batman. Tim would rather brave the rain.
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My OC Duma. His image and personality is inspired and based on the fallen angel Duma from the Book of Enoch.
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From the original demon, he only has a name and some similar facts. Here's a short description of the original:
Duma (דּוּמָה "silence") is an angel mentioned in Rabbinic and Islamic literature as the angel who has power over the wicked dead. Duma is also the guardian angel of Egypt, the prince of hell and the angel of justification. As the patron of Egypt, he ignored God's command to condemn Egyptian deities. After which God banishes him to Gehenna, there he becomes its ruler, and three angels of destruction are assigned to him. According to the hadith mentioned in al-Suyuti al-Habaik fi akhbar al-malaiq, Azrael transfers the souls of the deceased unbelievers to the Duma.
My Duma prefers to be in the human world as an observer, sometimes visible, sometimes invisible. He is quite curious about people and treats them relatively neutrally. He is there to observe in silence. Once in a while he makes contact simply out of interest. He prefers to travel through areas close to Egypt, and that is how he sometimes finds himself in Agrabah and the Seven Deserts. According to my version, he also occupies a certain place in Hell and controls a certain category of sinners, but does not seek to increase their number at all. This fallen angel is just doing his job.
Like all angels and demons, my Duma is genderless. So technically it is not a he, but an it (I use the pronoun "he" since it is a demon). My Duma prefers to wear a white shroud, his face is like a mask, and instead of eyes and mouth, there is blackness and emptiness that absorbs light. The way he communicates is also unusual: he opens his mouth, but his speech sounds in your head like your inner voice, a bit unnatural and distorted at some frequencies. From the outside it looks especially strange: he moves his lips while saying words, but makes no sound. This peculiarity of his dialog is inspired by the fact that Duma means "silence".
A couple of times Duma watched the battles of Aladdin and Mozenrath, but never tried to interfere with the course of events. With great dissatisfaction, he looked at all the problems caused by Chaos or Mirage - otherworldly creatures shouldn’t meddle in people’s affairs! Once, out of interest, the fallen angel was in the Cave of Wonders, but did not appreciate it at all, because there were absolutely no people there. He also climbed through the numerous tunnels of the Thieves' lair, accidentally scaring several men...
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misc-obeyme · 8 months
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Im in love with Thriteen like i I adore her, she is so close to being my second fav and pushing Lucifer below...like i get how she is so chill, and she is a reaper, do you think reapers arw higher than the demon class? Like i imagine lower level demons being afriad of reapers. Also like humans and how they react to seeing a reaper
Ahh, anon, I am also in love with Thirteen!!
All other characters I approached with skepticism, but I was fatally in love with Thirteen pretty much immediately lol. I don't know what it is about her, but I'm so glad they made her amazing. I was prepared for disappointment, but no, she's great.
Anyway, I have thought a lot about reapers in general and how they fit into the Devildom. The thing about it is, they really seem to be their own thing, you know? Thirteen is considered an exchange student, right? So to me that means that although reapers live in the Devildom, they don't fall under its jurisdiction. Which makes me wonder who exactly Diavolo had to coordinate with to get a reaper exchange student. Like who's in charge? Anybody? The only other reaper we hear about is Candy. There's so little information about them.
That being said, it's clear that some of them have their caves in the Devildom like Thirteen. They don't really indicate if the reaper caves are only located in the Devildom or if they exist in either of the other worlds, too. But at the very least we know there are reapers living in the Devildom. Whether or not they're under Diavolo's rule aside, they live there and interact with the other denizens. And I absolutely think lesser demons are probably afraid of them. I would imagine that reapers in general are pretty powerful. Especially if all demons have candles, like the brothers do. Like you shouldn't hassle a reaper because they can just find your candle and snuff it out, you know?
Of course, it probably also depends on the reaper. We only really have Thirteen to go by, so it's hard to say if there are reapers that maybe aren't as powerful or some that are incredibly powerful. But it's clear that they control death to some degree and not just for humans, but demons, too. So I imagine that demons would generally steer clear of them if they can.
Now I think it would be really interesting if it turned out that the reapers also had candles for angels. I don't remember this being mentioned, but if reapers can control the lives of all the peoples in the three worlds, then they're really the most powerful of everyone, aren't they?
And then I can't help but think how interesting it'd be if it turned out they were ruled by an angel. Specifically Azrael, the angel of death. Because I can't imagine who else would be in charge of reapers... unless you've got someone like the Grim Reaper... like the Reaper of all Reapers lol. But that's just me thinking about things, we have no idea how any of that part of being a reaper works. At least not that I can remember. I have been known to forget such details lol.
In the end, all of this is fun to think about and I just love the whole reaper aesthetic anyway, I'm sure that has something to do with why I love Thirteen so much. I can't wait for them to make her dateable.
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justice-in-the-throes · 3 months
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[Michael suddenly heard some very loud scratching in the ceiling, accompanied by heavy thuds that made the roof shake, stirring dust on the stalactites]
[Azrael seemed to notice it too, tensing as they glanced up at the ceiling. The thuds stopped momentarily above the pair, before a loud crash sounded as the ceiling caved in]
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zahri-melitor · 1 year
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The thing about working on a Tim-Robin focus reread is I’m now staring blearily at common fanon assumptions again and going “now where did you come from”, and today’s target is the weird as hell “Tim doesn’t think he’s part of the family, he’s just an EMPLOYEE you guys” nonsense, because Tim? Tim doesn’t think he’s part of the family? C’mon. There ISN’T an extended Batfamily as we understand it today without Tim.
Tim the Team-Up Robin is like 50% of how we ended up where we are now. (The other 50% is No Man’s Land of course, which solidified the larger supporting cast’s shape that allowed for future additions and had Bruce actually accept that he was stuck with *handwaves* everyone from here on out).
I mean. I just put together a list of Tim’s early-mid 90s team ups, and it’s like: Clyde Rawlins (sorry dude) and Shiva (Robin I); Helena Bertinelli (Robin III, Robin #6/Showcase ’94 #5-6 – Benedictions, Robin #17); Steph Brown (‘Tec #647-649, Robin #3-5, Robin #15); Azrael!John-Paul Valley (Prelude to Knightfall/Knightfall); Azbats!John-Paul Valley (Knightfall/Knightquest) (fun fact, Azbats is literally a canon nickname for him); Nightwing!Dick Grayson (Showcase ’93 #11-12, then regularly from Contagion onwards); Robin!Dick Grayson (Robin #10); Batman!Dick Grayson (Prodigal); Connor Hawke (Robin #25, Brotherhood of the Fist); Selina Kyle (who is really not thrilled about it) (Contagion). He works with Harold Allnut in the cave. He works with Barbara Gordon as soon as she starts giving Oracle assistance to the Bats (and is the first of the Bats to properly thank her for her work! Robin #30 is the first really good Tim-Babs moment). He goes out with Alfred Pennyworth as support in person (Robin II, Contagion). He works with Renee Montoya and Harvey Bullock when their investigations overlap. He seeks help from Ulysses Armstrong’s siblings to get Ulysses back in custody (Robin #19-20). He gets TOLD OFF by Bruce for his habit of just latching on to the nearest hero/anti-hero/villain who has a similar goal and going “cool, let’s work together”. Bruce gets SO grumpy over Tim just hanging out with Helena every time they cross paths and Tim and Alfred actively work to hide the fact he teamed up with Selina from Bruce (and you know that post about Bruce going “I have found a more acceptable partner for you” and showing Nightwing? That’s EXACTLY WHAT HAPPENED when Bruce found out)
Tim’s anchoring or helping anchor MOST of the extended cast who we’d recognise as vigilantes under the Batfamily banner during the 90s, until Nightwing and BoP both get ongoing titles and take over handling part of the load. But there again, you have the central trio of Babs-Dick-Tim holding onto relationships with other characters that Bruce can’t or won’t manage, and they’re doing it as a little bonded triple unit all the way up to hmm somewhere around Identity Crisis and Infinite Crisis. (Except for Azrael. Poor JPV really is a red-headed step-child and nobody wants to play with him).
And then I recall that your average fanon Batfamily fan can identify only about half this list and is probably extremely confused by why Selina really doesn’t want to be teaming up with Tim back in the 90s and doesn’t realise that Tim had a close working relationship with HELENA before he had one with Dick. (I’d forgotten that Tim and Helena were at “team up every time we cross paths” stage before Prodigal happened and Dick decided that he had a new little brother now, thank you very much, until I mapped all this out)
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communistchilchuck · 7 months
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i’ve made a few posts in a similar vein before but what you absolutely have to understand going into knightfall about azbats is that he was meant to be “unlikeable” on a surface level. the way he acts has a symbolic purpose. i’m thankful that o’neil made sure to publish such a backstory for jean-paul and azrael beforehand that established their history with conditioning, abuse, legacy, and identity, meaning that alongside all of the unlikeable things they did, there was a complex reasoning behind much of it and azbats wasn’t just “the bad batman” for the sake of filling a role, but as a narrative tool azbats was meant to highlight what was best about bruce by being what bruce wasn’t in many negative ways.
bruce works as a team with robin, who helps him in so many ways. azbats shuts robin out because working as a team both puts his teammate at risk and reminds him of his own “incompetence” if he can’t do everything himself. bruce allows others into the cave, azbats bricks it off, drives them away. bruce wears spandex. azbats wears armor, with a shooting range in the cave, a flamethrower, shuriken shooters, like a war machine. bruce treats “criminals” with a level of compassion. azbats brutalizes them and threatens to put them away even if they aren’t doing anything wrong if he runs into them again. bruce uses the fear associated with the bat symbol to inspire hope. azbats uses fear to keep people in line. what are some common gripes about batman from the crowd that doesn’t understand what he’s about? that the batcave is too crowded, that robin is too unrealistic/childish/cheesy, that he should be harder on his enemies, update his look to be more tactical and reflective of the “militarism” of vigilantism. i could go on. these things are all framed as turns of behavior that make batman’s trusted allies and associates afraid and uneasy because they’re signs somethings wrong.
and as i said, through it all, jean-paul and azrael remain complex characters. they aren’t in complete control of their mental faculties as they struggle to co-exist, grapple with recently dredged up trauma, pain, and confusion. dissociate and hallucinate and throw themselves into this role to fill the void of the “true self” — a nothingness jean-paul is repeatedly told he is by others and himself. jean-paul shows an empathy for those he relates to due to his past, he shows a desire to use his role to defend and avenge the abused, he’s an inexperienced, confused young man who needs help. he’s got his good, compassionate, heroic, and sympathetic traits in tandem with the parts of him that are angry, zealous, violent, and vindictive.
but he wasn’t meant to replace bruce forever. you can absolutely dislike azbats as he is, you weren’t meant to want him around like that. and jp’s bad relationship with tim and dick and gordon and the city bruce loved served an important purpose that was at the heart of much of knightfall and its associated arcs: to be a foil.
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brutaliakhoa · 5 months
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ahsghdgd oh, well the main complaint I've seen from about hmm 90% of people in the tag is that Bruce in the spin off maybe seems a bit 'colder' towards the rogues than in Unburied with Ed reminding him that the rogues were not just criminals but people too vs. Bruce's "you deserve better than this" scene with King Tut in season 1. Generally the fandom consensus seems to be "this is a valid Batman characterisation but it feels a bit like Bruce's character development in Unburied had been ignored". Which I think might also be because of the general change in tone (and the change in pov as well as the different writing team) for the spin off? Might also be that people are a bit upset with there having been a recast for Bruce and let that color their impression of the character tbh.
If you don't mind me asking another question tho, you mentioned gripes with the writing in general and tbh I'd be curious to hear them 👀
oh no yea for SURE. that was a small thing i had issue with—the compassion he had for king tut and ed in unburied (and their little egypt date i mean reunion at the end). and bruce here is more veering towards pragmatism and detached vigilante. i totally agree. the ideal would be to strike a balance. bruce needing to catch this murderer fast but also thinking there are easy fixes to the problem at hand [like sending ed back to arkham is a safe decision, not wanting to risk letting ed loose in the manor or cave even though he knows bruce's identity] (hubris babeyyyy. and THEN ed and barbara could both call him out on it. because alfred sure isn't gonna say anything as the world's biggest enabler)
but then again like you said i'm willing to give a little leeway based on the fact that it's ed's pov we're seeing and bruce is Compartmentalization Champion Extraordinaire (<- remember that a lot of the golden moments in unburied came from introspective monologues or hallucinations on bruce's part, which is not an option for this series).
i guess as for sitd in general.. i just didn't really enjoy attempts to "humanize" ed or make him more sympathetic? it felt like they were doing a bit too much to convince us that the riddler is likeable and the audience doesn't have to feel shitty for liking a "criminal". the mystery and the constantly-in-place mask that ed had for unburied almost all the time worked! because it made the vulnerable moments stand out and it gave extra meaning to just how much he trusted barbara and bruce, even though they were supposed to be on opposing sides.
also... the fact that they used azrael who's a hero as the villain of the series (even if it isn't jean-paul) felt wrong to me.. i enjoyed the harvester in unburied because it utilized a less-talked-about rouge that we don't usually see in mainstream batman media, but the repurposing of azrael whose whole character arc is trying to shrug off the legacy of his father and use himself as a tool for justice made me feel indignant, to say the least.
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ask-obt · 1 year
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Did Fienne get replaced by Dielle?
// I guess if you consider both Fienne and Dielle being Nice and Girls as the main comparison here? Personality-wise Dielle is far more anxious and self-conscious, where Fienne's thing was that she had an oblivious optimism where she didn't really care about societal roles.
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As far as their roles in the stories goes, Fienne was meant to have the first hard-hitting death in the story, and we were supposed to find out more about her post-mortem as time passed (she never got a home in town because she was searching for her brother who allegedly moved to Treasure Town- and we only find out later that he was the sentry that got killed that was mentioned in Chapter 4, and she never found out about his death).
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Dielle's role, meanwhile, is to be a sort of foil to Rune where they both lift each other up and strive to become better together. They both help each other grow (Dielle helping Rune feel more comfortable with being emotionally vulnerable, and Rune getting Dielle more comfortable with going outside her comfort zone). I don't think it's a spoiler to say this since I already confirmed Azrael's death to be the first in the run (Yohann's date who dipped in-comic, as a refresher for those who need it), so there aren't any super early deaths in OBT's run. As a result Dielle's arc isn't so much about "what could have been" like with Fienne, but more about what she becomes.
From a literal gameplay perspective, Fawkes was my original Wondermail recruit from Beach Cave, while Dielle fills that exact position in this iteration's gameplay! Inigo got recruited in Mt. Bristle instead of Fienne this time around.
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