#antikataang

[johnskleats]

is anyone going to tell the kat@angers that it's not feminist activism to argue Katara's arc in LOK is fine on the grounds that "some women want to be homemakers and that's okay!!"

Like you're not helping real women that way. In fact, most antis for the cannon ship ARE women. Many are homemakers themselves.

Katara is not a real woman. She is a fictional woman written by men.

Can the sensibilities and wishes of a girl change by the time she is a adult? Yes!

But as this is a textual character who, as per the text, rejects the societal structure of her fictional world (which mirrors our own) that women are and can only ever be docile homemakers (i.e. I don't want to heal, I want to fight; I will never turn my back on people who need me; let's start a prison riot; let's engage in vigilante ecoterrorism; let's pitch an absolute fit because the boys are not pulling their fair weight in the homemaking; let's confront my mother's killer at the absolute rejection and condemnation of the male figures whom I am to respect; etc) it is perfectly reasonable to argue that this end was not a natural course for her character.

Fictional characters are not real people. This means that they do not change their mind off screen. That is not an acceptable argument. That is called a "plot hole", which is a nonsensical change made at the convenience and contrivance of the writer(s), who in this case are men exhibited to not care for women or girls all that much. It is within THEIR character to write this way.

Regardless of who, if anyone, Katara ended up with, Katara tolerating disrespect, neglect, abuse of her children, giving up all of her former aspirations to live in the shadow of men, and dying as a mere footnote in history (and being alright with it!!) is not surprising given the absolute vitriol Bryke has shown toward female fans of their "creation". It was supposed to be a "boy" show. It was always supposed to be a "boy" show. The creators of Supernatural and Game of Thrones did the same thing. ATLA just did it first.

Arguing "not all women" is not activism in the face of what is really happening in this discourse. Sending death threats to real, actual women with feelings in defense of a fake pretend woman's fake pretend autonomy is performative activism, and worse, hypocritical.

Not all women agree with you. Not all women feel represented and find the outcome of Katara's story satisfactory. If y'all care about feminism and respecting women's choices so much, lay off the real life women you're so fond of harassing. Our views and opinions, while opposing your own, don't affect you.

#i know we've all told them but yall im tired #antikataang #anti kataang #its tagged but the people who this is targeted for will see it #folks perusing the zutara tag for hate purposes #yall are weird #guess who has never set foot in the kata@ng tag #its me <3 #zutara #antibryke #anti bryke #bryke critical

[sokkastyles]

Thinking again about how Katara is portrayed in "Ember Island Players" and how a lot of her objections to the play have to do with how it portrays her as an overly emotional damsel who needs Aang to save her from her wretched existence, and the disrespect of her entire culture and people that is used to portray her as someone who needs a man to rescue her.

Which on one level you can interpret as Fire Nation propaganda, but it's also a meta commentary on the series itself, because Katara does rely on Aang as a savior figure and there are certain scenes that are specifically designed to damsel her so that Aang can be a hero.

It's interesting that the show chose to portray Katara watching herself in that position and specifically show that she doesn't like it, in the same episode that they have the real Aang act like them getting together is a foregone conclusion.

In contrast, although the play changes Katara's relationship to Zuko into something romantic and lurid, they do get one thing right about it.

And that's that Katara is the one making the choices.

Of course they also ramp up the sexuality in a way that is gross, especially considering the context of this being a FN play meant to disparage the other nations, but on a meta level it's also meant to make us, the audience, feel disgusted by a woman who makes overt sexual overtures.

I've seen people (who are anti zutara) say that the play is showing Katara as the colonized woman who falls for the colonizer, but that's not what's happening here. Zuko is not portrayed as dominant by the play, and it wouldn't make sense for the FN to portray him that way, either, since one of the purposes of the play is to portray him as a weak and ridiculous traitor who is ultimately defeated. So the joke, both in-story and the one Bryke want to make at a meta level, seems to be about Katara being more dominant than Zuko. In the play, Katara says that she felt attracted to Zuko from the moment he captured her, yet Zuko is shown shrinking from her overtures. And I just have to find it interesting that this is the joke the show wants to make in an episode where the major conflict is Aang making a pushy overture towards Katara and her rejecting it.

Zutarians frequently talk about how zutara focuses on Katara's agency. I have to agree, and I don't know what the conversations about this were at the time, but I do find it suspect that the show seems to recognize this, but decided to make fun of it at the same time. The episode posits the threat that Katara might choose someone other than Aang as a major conflict in the story, shows us a Katara who feels trapped by her role as Aang's damsel, and then makes fun of her for it and expects us to root for her and Aang to get together.

Meanwhile, we also see the real Katara and Zuko get closer in a way that feels real and organic, we see them exchange banter, we see Katara confident and able to best Zuko verbally but also able to comfort him over his fears about the play, which again focuses on her as the main actor in the relationship. Although Zuko and Katara do have that one scene of them moving away from each other in reaction to being portrayed as a couple by the play, overall their relationship remains unplagued by the insecurity that the play brings out in Katara and Aang, which seems to indicate that the problems in their relationship go beyond the play's parodies and that there is actually some truth there, that Katara really does feel like she has less choice in her relationship with Aang and that Aang seems to fear her choices.

It's really not hard to see why zutara becomes appealing in that context.

#zutara #antikataang #zuko #katara #ember island players #the boy in the iceberg

[rifari2037]

7. What’s your favourite Zutara moment from the show?

I love all Zutara moments, because it shows development in every season. But, I would never forget how June being Zutara shipper in every appearances. This is my random thought! Very random thought!

June looked closely when Zuko showed Katara's necklace. Since she was from earth kingdom, she probably didn't know it was a betrothal necklace. But, very clear the necklace belong to a girl.

But, she was a bounty hunter, she worked for anyone who paid her, they could be from anywhere . So, there was possibility she learn about other nation cultural like betrothal necklace from Northern Water Tribe.

A prince using a (betrothal) necklace to looking a girl? (Maybe he made it for her, but she run away?) Well, the conclusion was, "What happened? Your girlfriend run off on you?"

And Zuko didn't deny it.

June was right, the necklace belong to a girl. A beautiful girl! “So this is your girlfriend. No wonder she left, she's way too pretty for you.”

And again, Zuko didn't deny it!

June didn't know what happened after that, but the Prince Pouty came again to her and now TOGETHER with the girl. Not only that, June saw Katara wore her necklace.

What sense situation except, "I see you worked things out with your girlfriend."

This time they denied it!

But, what a reaction if there was nothing between them?

Zuko never give a f*ck before every time June teased her with Katara, why he suddenly so shy and denied it? And Katara made the same reaction as she denied her relationship with Jet! Something fishy!!

And in the very same night after someone assumed that they were together, they slept like this! Remember, Aang was missing that time, no one knows where he was or was he okay. But, look at the little smile on Katara's face! I wonder, what were they talking about before they say good night?

#zutara #pro katara #atla zutara #zuko x katara #zuko and katara #anti anti zutara #antikataang #anti maiko #zutara forever

[lovegrowsart]

tui & la, yin & yang, and zuko & katara (+aang)

okay. i'm not interested in shipping slapfights, but i came across a specific pro-k/a argument and my mind simply won't let me rest until i write these thoughts down, so here's some meta about zutara symbolism and how, even if it was bryke's intention or retcon or whatever tf, symbolism related to complementary and interconnected opposites and balance, simply doesn't work with k/a's canon relationship dynamic.

first of all, the argument i saw that tui and la in the show are somehow not meant to be taken as yin and yang (or at the very least a representation of it) is... a very interesting one, considering they're designed to look exactly like the yin yang symbol, and koh literally describes them as such. he isn't just bringing up yin & yang because tui and la are, like, similar to them? but because that's what they are.

koh says tui and la are push and pull (the literal translation of tui and la from chinese) to describe what they are, and then says they are good and evil, life and death, yin and yang, to furthur describe the inherent nature of their relationship. this is a kid's show. the symbolism is meant to be this easy to parse. who is watching the koi fish merge into the literal yin yang symbol, quite possibly one of the most recognisable symbols in the entire world, and thinking "oh, but they're not really meant to be yin & yang!"? some k/a shippers, apparently.

now, you might say, but yin & yang aren't good and evil? isn't that a simplification or misconception of the concept? and yes, actually, i would agree with you, good and evil isn't exactly how i would describe yin & yang to someone (though there are schools of thought that do assign a moral dimension to yin & yang!), but if i was writing, again, a kid's show and wanted to get my point across with simple yet evocative language about the relationship between these two spirits symbolised by an complex and abstract real life spiritual and philosophical concept, i can see how "good and evil" works to explain yin (la) as negative and yang (tui) as positive. the text and visual language of the show intentionally links the ideas inherent to yin & yang to tui and la. you can't just retroactively separate them because you want tui & la to represent k/a, but you know that doesn't work if they're yin & yang because canon k/a just doesn't fit with that kind of symbolism.

the k/a argument that tui & la represent katara and aang just fundamentally doesn't work with how both are presented in the show. tui (the moon) is the white koi fish - the light side, representing yang, which is active, masculine, postive, fire etc. la is the black koi fish (the ocean) - the dark side, representing passivity, feminine, negative, water etc.

katara as the moon and aang as the ocean just doesn't map onto the specific symbolism evoked by how tui & la are presented visually and thematically in the show. tui & la are specifically described to balance each other, which just... isn't how k/a's canon dynamic is written. "aang gets angry like the ocean spirit and katara as the moon spirit pulls him back and calms him down" isn't how i would write or describe a balanced relationship, it's what i would call katara being aang's emotional crutch for three seasons with little support in return to "balance" them. k/a's canon dynamic is notably imbalanced, so if even symbolism pertaining to balance was meant to represent their relationship, bryke and the writers did a pretty piss poor job of making that symbolism present in their actual relationship. it's also a complete mischaracterisation of the yin & yang symbolism that is, again, explicitly tied into tui & la per the text and visual language of the show. not only is "katara and aang balance each other and when they're apart, they act recklessly and have to pull each other back from the brink" a reading of their relationship not particularly supported by the text of the show, that's also just... not how tui & la/yin & yang are actually characterised in the show or in real life.

furthermore, the argument that "good and evil" as it relates to tui & la and yin & yang doesn't work for z/k because "zuko isn't evil in the end" or "katara isn't evil at all" completely misses the forest for the trees in how the symbolism ties into the show's overarching themes and z/k's relationship specifically. the storytelling here is much more metaphorical and psychological than it is literal.

the whole point of yin & yang is that they are interconnected opposites, simultaneous unity and duality - zuko is as capable of bad as he is of good, and in turn, so is katara. this is true of every other person and character, of course, but zuko and katara specifically have important story beats in their respective arcs where they are shown the "light side" (zuko learning from the dragons) and "dark side" (katara learning bloodbending) of their respective elements (and their elements only compound their yin & yang symbolism, since fire and water are regarded as physical/natural manifestions of the yin & yang cosmological cycle). one of the most notable story beats of katara's arc is when she explores her "dark side" by going after yon rha (ymmv on how "dark" that really is, but i'm going with how the show presents this part of katara's journey), which is something the other members of the gaang (besides zuko ofc) don't really go through in their arcs - aang, sokka, and toph aren't written to confront the duality of their nature, their worldview, their moral character, their bending, the way that zuko and katara are.

part of me is struggling to even explain this because it's just, idk, really obvious to me. zuko and katara are fire and water, "evil" and "good" (they literally face off in the b1 and b2 finales! either of their literal and actual morality isn't actually all that relevant to how the symbolism works), of course they're yin & yang? and since tui & la are how yin & yang in the atla universe is presented to the audience, then that means they are tui & la too (symbolically, obviously, not literally).

yin & yang fundamentally transform each other the way zuko and katara do. for every advance, there's a retreat; for every rise, there's a fall. book 1; zuko falls, katara rises. book 2; katara falls, zuko rises. book 3; zuko falls, katara rises. you rise with the moon, i rise with the sun. an eternal dance as the both of them learn and grow and confront their own false dichotimies, learning how a world of seemingly opposing and contrary forces is, in fact, interconnected and interdependent.

like. c'mon.

#zutara #antikataang #i guess lmao i just don't think this argument holds any water re: their relationship #and i frankly don't care whatever bryke have said or retconned i haven't cared abt what those men have said about their own show for years #i care about what is actually presented in the text and visual language of the show #meta* #atla critical #just to be safe again

[eponastory]

Oh besties... we've got a live one on our hands...

*edit* I've actually read this fic myself, and so have others. If you haven't read it but want to, DM me for the link. I want to give this writer as much support as possible. I will be reviewing this fic later because it is good. *

Ehem... so I don't have a problem with people expressing their opinions on something, but this is bullying.

Taking someone's fanfiction and posting it on Tumblr to make fun of the writer is fucking stupid. Someone wrote this with a lot of time and thought, voicing their opinions through their creativity. That's like me going into the kat*ang tag on AO3 and posting someone's hard work just to ridicule them, then completely invalidate their work of FICTION because I don't like the pairing.

I'd never do that because I'm not a fucking bully nor am I an idiot.

But Zutarians are called toxic and delusional. The only delusion is that people believe they have the moral high ground because their pairing is canon. So fucking what?! It's fanfiction created by passionate fans of a beloved show.

Get over yourselves, Kat*anglanders. You aren't perfect. And your morals suck.

At least we don't do shit like this.

*another edit because this is hilarious and by godzilla it made me go off*

This idiot 🙄 actually said in a reblog, that it's just common etiquette to not tag the ship you don't want to see.

I am really close to going Super Sayain 3 here...

It's common fucking etiquette to not screenshot someone's work and post it on Tumblr to tear it apart because you don't like how your best Boi is portrayed!

You are turning me into a heathen at this point.

Because we all know you deliberately did this. But you want to call Zutara fans idiots?

No. Nope. Not gonna fly. This isn't a get out of jail free card.

#would any of us do this to someone who loves another pairing? no? didnt think so #stay classy #zutara #antikataang

[yiangchen]

i've said it before, but i really do think that the final book of atla should have just scrapped the romance aside from sukka. and NOT just because i love zutara. all i would have wanted from zutara would have been a hint at them becoming something more in the finale. i wouldn't have changed anything about them in the third book. their story is flawless, their development is unmatched.

without (romantic) m/aiko and (romantic) k/ataang, however, they could have spent more time developing mai and aang's characters'. these romantic relationships were as much a disservice to mai and aang as they were to zuko and katara. i would have killed to see mai (and ty lee) have scenes leading up to their decision to betray azula. i would have killed to see aang have more scenes with guru pathik leading up to him unlocking his last chakra to go into the avatar state and defeat ozai.

it will forever be wild to me that the greatest show of all time has only a few flaws, all of them stemming from two terribly written romances. and from the same writers that gave us sukka?? truly wild.

#at least i have sukka though #i adore them #zutara #sukka #antikataang #antimaiko #atla

[evsalonyx]

Do you ever think about LOK creators writing Katara, the fighting, mothering, feminine boss as a helpless old woman in the healing huts, incapable of doing anything, lacking a relationship with her kids and grandkids, none of her grandkids having any connections to her dying South Pole culture or bending, and get really freaking FURIOUS?

Or maybe about how she didn't have any sort of companion after Aang died? (geriatric Zutara is so freaking cute) she didn't even keep in contact with her friends?!? How her identity was centered around a loving, mothering nature only for her to rarely see her grandkids and be very distant from them?????

She lacked a legacy, a statue, any sense of importance to the plot, and perhaps the most importantly, a family, all because to some creators, her worth evaporated after she gave birth to Tenzin.

#zutara #antikataang #anti lok #oh yeah we're going there today

[tiny-katara]

why is everyone targeting zutara shippers recently omg 😭 literally had a z.kka come to my blog despite me having posted a post saying why must we fight.. both ships are so nice.. AND I GET INSULTED

literally do not remember how old this is but i think there are just surges where the antis get really proud of themselves for how much hate they can spread and then they've completed their work of ruining harmless fun and go about their business until the next time they get a bit of energy

anyway hope this helps have fun anon with zutara as you should <3

#zutara #antikataang #anti kataang #anti maiko #it's just precautionary #but like really #it is not that serious you do not need to go bother us happy lil zkers

[aquariusshadow]

if the netflix live action atla can tone down/remove sokka's sexism cuz it was deemed as "too iffy" then surely...surely they'll remove the kat*ang non-con kiss(es)...right?

#anti kataang #antikataang #atla netflix #atla live action #fr i am genuinely curious if they'll remove and or change how the kat*ang kisses were handled from the og..... #ngl it says a lot if they portray the kisses in the live action exactly as how it was from the show #assuming we even get to season 3 lmfao

[stargirl-judooz]

The difference between zuko and a/ang:

Katara: makes declaration of her own feelings and opinion

Zuko: im sorry, that’s something we have in common

Katara: makes declaration of her own feelings and opinion

A/ang: idk, you seem irrational to me

#katara #atla #zuko listens first #a/ang likes to mansplain first #it’s about katara and the respect she receives #aang critical #antikataang #zuko

[johnskleats]

my husband got three minutes into a video essay about how the live action "stripped Katara of her femininity" before going "...wait a minute! Your only point is that she isn't doting on A@ng!" and turned it off

#natla #zutara #netflix live action #they stripped her of her capacity for incredible violence in the face of injustice and her drive of righteous anger if anything #this is a zutara household #katara #antikataang #anti kataang #just in case

[sokkastyles]

I'm not sure if you're tired of seeing asks like this, so it's okay if you don't want to give a lengthy answer, but I have some thoughts about why female fans (in general) are more open to the idea of Zutara or hearing takes about them as a pairing compared to male fans (in general). I think it might partially have to do with how men (in general) see women versus how women (in general) see themselves. I feel like a lot of male fans are very resistant to the idea of Katara being a flawed person because it gets in the way of their perception of what makes Katara desirable and a good character. For a lot of male fans it seems like Katara's darker, more complicated emotions are separate from who she is as a whole person or something that needs to be fixed, but for a lot of female fans Katara's complicated emotions and her trauma are considered an essential part of understanding her as a character and not something that needs to be corrected or fixed. Personally, as a brown girl myself, I loved the fact that Katara was realistically flawed, decided to handle her trauma on her own terms, and had Zuko supporting her through it and understanding her. I'm not really sure if this makes sense, and I might be very off base, but these are generalizations based on my personal observations. What do you think?

I think you're spot on. Just look at, for example, Katara's characterization with regard to her mother's death. Her taking on motherly traits is something that makes her a desirable love interest when those motherly instincts are turned on Aang, yet Aang especially refuses to deal with the negative side of that, Katara's trauma over her mother's death and the toll that this emotional labor takes on her. Women are supposed to be motherly by nature. They aren't supposed to complain about it or be negatively affected by having to carry other people's needs all the time without attending to their own. They aren't supposed to be human. The way that Aang thinks Katara should deal with her trauma is by being endlessly forgiving, and that's telling. It's framed as coming from Aang's personal cultural beliefs, yet he does not tell other characters, like Zuko or Sokka, that they should forgive the people who hurt them. He did not forgive the people who destroyed his people or who stole Appa. This need to forgive is focused solely on Katara, even though Sokka points out that Kya was his mother, too. And oh, we can talk all day about the difference between the way Katara and Sokka feel about their mother, but at the end of the day, these are fictional characters and the writers made a decision to portray Katara's pain, that is directly connected to the ways they established her as a motherly figure to Aang, as bad and irrational and something that stood in the way of her reciprocating Aang's love. That this aspect of her personality needed to be purged or repressed so that she could fulfill her role as Aang's motherwife.

Men dichotomize women like this all the time, without realizing that they have created these dichotomies. No woman ever fits into these boxes because women are not dichotomies, they are full human beings. That's why a lot of women identify with this aspect of Katara and resent the show's attempts to dichotomize her.

#katara #antikataang #zutara

[rifari2037]

@sokkastyles I can't agree more with you!

#zutara #anti anti zutara #anti kataang #antikataang #anti bryke

[zukosdualdao]

though it’s framed humorously, there’s something interesting about katara acting like she got those two earth kingdom boys to tell her about the earth rumble by using her ~womanly wiles because “a girl has her ways,” only for the scene to cut and show them frozen together. of course, later sokka and aang will see her threaten them again (and sokka will join in lmao), but still—her first instinct was to present a more peaceful, demure version of herself for their (and maybe especially aang’s) benefit.

#antikataang #jic #katara #atla rewatch ‘24 #there’s a western air temple parallel here maybe i’ll remember this post ehen i get there #atla

[southslates]

zuko & katara belong together because they love each other selflessly and are so passionate. unlike mai, katara shows as much emotion as zuko. unlike aang, zuko is willing treat katara as an equal, not put her on a pedestal.

#zutara #antikataang #antimaiko

[eponastory]

So, I've been debating about posting this because... well it isn't exactly pleasant for me to talk about.

But I've been wanting to share a little bit of why I don't like Aang. I know in the beginning I said I could like him because he was (at the time) a character that I felt was well written.

But then I realized I had the wool pulled over my eyes. And that is because of some trauma from my past I avoided talking about for close to 12 years now. Now that I'm able to address that trauma, I also realize that when that part of my life was going on, the show was also airing.

So let's talk about those two non-consensual kisses from an SA survivor's POV.

Without going into too much detail, throughout my teenage years, I and two other girls were consistently singled out by a group of boys. This is back in the early 00s, so the consensus was to completely ignore SA and SH. So, when a boy casually shoves his arm down your shirt and squeezes your breast, what do you do? Well, going to the people who are supposed to protect you doesn't work because 'boys will be boys' or 'I know his dad and he would never do a thing like that so you must be lying' so no one gets in trouble. It gets ignored. And it wasn't just the breasts. I can't tell you how many times my ass was squeezed on the way to my next class. During recess or lunch, I hid in the girls' bathroom because this went on for years. It was boys in my own class.

But regardless, it was blown off. This really affected me all the way into my adult years, where it still continued with some of my relationships. One of them being so toxic that I almost didn't make it out.

But back to the point...

The framing of Aang kissing Katara, not once, but twice and never bringing it up again... that is what gets me. The first kiss I could see as, yes, they are going into battle and could possibly die before confessing their love. But that doesn't mean that had to happen. It's what happens after that also drives me crazy.

Aang automatically assumes that because he kissed Katara, that meant they were together. This is a 12 year old boy. I get it, but that still doesn't make it right. I've been kissed like that before by one of the boys that thought it was okay. It's not. Actually, most of the time a girls/woman's reaction is to push the offender away.

This is never addressed after EIP either. Katara absolutely refuses, but we are supposed to feel sorry for the offender in that situation. Imagine being someone going through that at the very same time the show is airing... it sets a sour taste in the mouth, doesn't it? It's the same thing as saying 'boys will be boys' or 'that's what boys do' and completely ignoring it or the consequences. This is what happens all the time to women, and if it didn't happen to you, that's wonderful.

Which is why I have a problem with Katara still choosing Aang. More like Bryke made Katara choose Aang. Who assaulted her, but we are supposed to feel bad for him for being an idiot. No, that's not how this works.

People who defend that are not okay in my eyes.

#im not okay because SA is life changing #so someone who thinks its okay to force themselves onto someone else be it kissing or otherwise needs to reevaluate themselves #anti aang #pro katara #pro zutara #antikataang