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#anti tfatws
nerdychristianfanboy · 6 months
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MCU writers after Civil War when they couldn't use Bucky as a scary "villain"/plot device anymore:
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gay-jewish-bucky · 10 months
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rocket really got the arc bucky (also) should have had, huh?
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When people say all series have treated the characters the same I can't help but laugh
Where we had Steven tell Marc he was just a kid and...
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and WandaVision had a whole damn episode explaining Wanda's past so that we could understand why she did what she did
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and Hawkeye gave us this speech from Kate
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and Clint got to burn the Ronin suit and forget about what he did
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BUT
Bucky was told he had to make amends for things he had been forced to do by Hydra while under their control
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and Loki, well...
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They were all treated the same?
NOT EVEN CLOSE.
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ifandomus · 2 years
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Some people: “Do you ever think about how sad it is that Bucky can't make amends to Tony? So there is one name on his amends list that he can't ever cross off. But maybe he can try to make amends to Tony’s family?”
Me:
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Thinking about how great CATWS was and how Marvel dropped the ball on all the characters from that movie.
Steve? Got character assassinated beyond repair.
Natasha? Killed off, didn't even get an on-screen funeral and her only solo movie was more about introducing Yelena than her.
Bucky? Never got a prober story, was victim blamed, and will possibly die in Thunderbolts.
Nick Fury? Got character assassinated in Secret Invasion.
Maria Hill? Was killed off in SI.
Sharon Carter? Turned into a villian.
Sam Wilson? Unlike the rest they haven't completely fumbled the bag with his character but he was still screwed by FATWS in many ways, and his first solo movie doesn't look very promising either.
Also consider that their sequel to the movie where we find out Howard Stark knew about Nazis in SHIELD (the specific Nazi that tortured Bucky and killed members of the 107, and tried to kill Steve) ...was a movie where Howard is assassinated by Hydra and yet Bucky gets blamed and brutally attacked for it. Even though this is the same movie where we find out Bucky was mind-controlled.
And their sequel to the movie where we find out Peggy knew about Nazis in SHIELD is..... Uh. Nothing. They never address it. A character who died offscreen gets screen time wasted on a fulblown Royal funeral (attended by people who didn't even fucking know her!!)
They treat her like some kind of living saint, to the point where she's now a full blown Mary Sue, with yet another bloody tv show where every storyline must be about her, and her possessing Steve, and Steve is reduced to a Stepford Husband wheeled out to repeat 'Peggy. Is. Perfect' type lines. 😬 (Steve. Blink if you need rescuing.)
All Bucky's everything now belongs to Peggy.
Oh, apart from the blame of course! He gets to keep all of that! 🙂
(Oh, and as per What If, Sam is no longer part of CATWS, his own intro movie, and even Natasha's own movie is now about- guess who?? Peggy! And Peggy having Steve!)
Apparently Sharon has been turned into a villain in the comics, too. Just as they start product-synergy introducing MCU!Peggy to over-ride comics Peggy. I wonder why...
(It's so funny that TFATWS assigned MCU-Sharon MCU-Peggy's annoyance at being overlooked by men (cough the man she's relentlessly hitting on cough) and decided that this would be her villain origin story... and yet nobody has connected the dots to Peggy and her behaviour?)
Sharon and Sam's characterisation only feels like an organic continuation because, frankly, the MCU never bothered to write them being particularly nice people to begin with?
Sam being a fratbro-style dick to Bucky in TFATWS, with a side of dispensing unsound self-contradictory counselling advice, is consistent with being a dick to Bucky (and arguing against helping him) since CATWS and quitting a counselling job at the drop of a hat. (Only the 1980s movie locker-room homophobia queerbait is new.)
Sharon being a villain is consistent with being a Carter not being asked to join the 'bringing down Hydra' team in CATWS, dressing up as the same profession as Steve's dead mother to 'befriend' him while she's just spying on him (contrast: the calling-out Nat got from Steve just for not telling him something), staying in SHIELD while they were hunting down Steve and Natasha, immediately joining the CIA (aka, the people who just happen to have a superhero-proof electric chair and want to shoot Bucky on sight, who also have Everett 'ex-husband of Madame Hydra who laughs at the idea of Bucky getting a lawyer' Ross on staff), ...which is easily infiltrated by a (thinly-veiled-Hydra) villain who wants to mind-control TWS to bring down the Avengers (deja vu??), being snippy to Sam for no reason, continuing to lie about herself beyond the point of it being necessary, and also being a creep who expects a thank you kiss from Steve just for doing one basic helpful thing when asked. *phew!*
But the geniuses who inherited the job of writing her in TFATWS can't see any of that... They see no issues, so they think they've written her 'turning' bad. The writing is still shonky because it still isn't self-aware about what it's portraying. The cognitive dissonance is still dissonant.
(Same problem with Fury. They keep giving him 'bad' things to do, showing him instinctively first joining the 'bad side', eg. Pierce's SHIELD, the Kree, etc. But with the exclusion of Steve yelling at him in CATWS -- and only so that Nick gets called out, but not precious Saint Margaret, ofc -- it's never addressed. They can't do anything interesting with the moral charcoal that they've accidentally cooked up, because they aren't even aware that it's there. 🤦‍♀️)
We were mercifully spared from Joss Whedon's terrible ideas for Maria... (supposed to be a villain in A1, baffled as to what to do with a female character so obviously she should be hinted as a love interest for Steve out of fuckn nowhere in A2) ...only to end like that.
Outside of that AOU Avengers party, where she was chill and kinda gay, I feel like the best characterisation we got for her was when- was it in one of the Spidey movies?? -she was a Skrull. 😤 If only I could say the same of Steve...
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breckstonevailskier · 7 months
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Honestly, if anyone was out of line here, it's the Dora Milaje for trying to kill Walker and Lemar because Walker touched one of them.
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I need to talk about how utterly incandescent with rage thr MCU's handing of Zemo makes me. Because in all media I had seen before Civil War do you know what Baron Zemo was? A Nazi. Motherfucker was a fucking Nazi. He was Hydra to his god damned core. What did the MCU do? They made an entirely different and utterly mediocre and uninteresting villain (as they usually do) and just slapped the name Zemo on him cos 'cool comic reference I guess!' With no fucking regard for what that would do. I don't even have the right words to explain why taking a nazi character and trying to make them 'sympathetic' is fucking gross, and frankly i shouldn't need to! That should be a perfectly understandable fact of existence! I wonder why Disney and Marvel are so reluctant to portray nazi and right wing characters on screen as evil now? I wonder why they shy away from that? Oh hello US military propaganda contract, I didn't see you there! Almost like showing nazis as they are would maybe look too similar to other things! So now! I get to see some dumb fuck straight white girl woobifying their precious little blorbo Zemo and shipping themselves with the Red Skull's successor. Or! Shipping Bucky fucking Barnes with him. You know. One of Hydra's best known victims in the MCU??? A man who damn near gave his life fighting nazis??? Yeah we should ship him with the sanitised nazi dude that's a good idea! Don't. Get me started. On the fucking flag smashers. I will never know Peace.
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hi guys, can I ask a favour? if you have any links to marvel meta about how badly the mcu treats bucky, about how endgame sucked (and his ending), civil war critics, tfatws critics, peggy critics, and tony stark critics could you please reply with them? I'm trying to explain to a friend and I suck at explaining it, so I'd like to send her the links. anyone 🙏🙏
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in-defense-of-loki · 2 years
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luna-rainbow · 7 months
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One of the tragedies of Steve’s character assassination is that neither Sam nor Bucky were allowed to mourn his absence. Unlike with Nat, where Yelena and Clint were able to lay bare their grief during Hawkeye. Nominally, Steve went to lead “the life he wanted”, and the narrative was afraid to open the can of worms around how uncharacteristically irresponsible that was. Hence neither Sam nor Bucky could discuss his loss, nor could they voice their own negative emotions around his absence. Not only were they not allowed anger, but they were also deprived of grief and bewilderment and regret. There was a Steve-shaped hole in TFATWS, and as much as the narrative tried to pretend it didn’t exist, the story was warped by its unshakeable presence.
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gay-jewish-bucky · 1 year
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he was so beautiful here 🥺
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too bad they never released anything from the show this was from except this one clip and this is the only time we've seen bucky in the mcu since he dusted i miss him so much😭
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I saw on Twitter that in the She-Hulk finale, Jen was given the same ending as Sam and Bucky in tfaws. Cookout with the family & the new friend/boyfriend. I guess it's Kevin's vision of a perfect ending. It reminds me of all the memes about Sam and Bucky having the happiest of endings on phase 4 unlike Wanda, Loki, the Eternals, Peter and Moon Knight.
Well, that "happy" ending in TFATWS was laughable to say the least. Sure, Sam and Bucky were smiling and having that picnic with the family but Bucky never had his trauma recognized nor got any help for it, he was fresh from a re-traumatizing experience after he was told to visit the families of those murdered by Hydra and frankly I doubt he had any time to actually address his PTSD.
As for Sam, his character was treated horribly during the series (that is when the series spent time focused on him which wasn't often), what about Sam's character individually? His own PTSD, he had been dusted too, what about Riley, what does he think of Steve leaving, how is it possible that he never said anything about Natasha or Wanda despite all of them having to live as fugitives for a few years, etc.
And in the end absolutely nothing was changed? The system stayed the same, the GRC is still ongoing and doing who knows what, how long will the senators stop the repatriation? They didn't address anything! And that's not even mentioning Isaiah.
So surface-level? Sure, they got the "happiest" one but only because the series refused to pay any attention to them or their issues, they just left it at "now they're happy, Bucky has a family and Sam is Cap, what else do you want?!."
From what I've read Feige just wants to give a kid to everyone these days. Bruce is now a dad, Thor has to take care of a little girl, Stephen has America, Clint kind of parented Kate in his series... I think we all know what's coming in S2 of Loki lmao 😂🤢
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ifandomus · 2 years
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Anytime I'm thinking about tfatws, the chorus to rolling in the deep starts playing in my head
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amarriageoftrueminds · 11 months
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i don't get how some ppl have such short memories for the creative decisions marvel makes
people saying that james gunn(??) should write Bucky bc of rocket's arc in gotg3... did they forget that we already know what gunn's thoughts on Bucky and his autonomy are? none of them were remotely good, and it also involved rocket and his ableist running joke of wanting to dismember amputees replacement limbs off. marvel would rather humanize a raccoon than a human who was tortured and enslaved by nazis.
or how people will rightfully criticize all the available info feige puts out re: Thunderbolts for calling Bucky a villain... but then turn around and preeptively praise that he might have "long" hair (the WS cut) so out wondering why marvel keeps putting Bucky in winter soldier style designs whenever they villainize him again. it happens in both comics and mcu consistently. obviously those in charge want to keep him as the WS villain role and not progress his character and don't care why people liked the WS story (the development it set up)
or how some complain that Sam was unkind and victimblamey towards Bucky in tfatws, I feel like those got too into fanon!Sam that made him a therapist bc of his veteran work, but Sam re: Bucky started out wanting him to be put down like a dog, and consistently complained about Steve treating Bucky with kindness and empathy. fatws Sam wasn't OOC, he was always a military man whose empathy never extended towards the POW captured by Nazis and always regarded him as a potential threat that he has to tolerate, that was in character. the actual fault is the mcu not exploring the dynamic a super patriotic US military man not extending empathy towards a a ww2 vet for fought nazis only for said nazis to be hired by the US a lá Project Paperclip, but LBR the disney-owned and USDoD-funded marvel studios is not financially incentivized to delve into those topics in any way that doesn't ultimately end with "woo, Captain Amurrica, red white and blue stars and stripes, stand for the flag wooo! ignore anything close to critical in this project and embrace patriotic centrism!"
I already hate how long the last one got but another thing:
the way that Steve's mother and his Irish heritage (during the early 1900s which makes it more significant in that point in history) are given to shine, we don't even know her maiden name, even the story of Steve's father and how it's supposed to parallel Steve going to fight European fascism in both world wars, none of that gets any attention bc marvel as a franchise cares more abt the generic patriotism to dive into the characters
There's never enough talk about how post-CATWS mcu demoted Bucky from titular character and arguable secondary protagonist as a foil and parallel for Steve, be his alternate supersoldier/superhero journey based on who the world chose to lionized and who to exploit in the seedy underbelly and shady deals w nazis, but post-CATWS mcu (specifically CACW) robbed Steve of the chance to have Steve's (not Cap's, Steve's) character be explored.
Becayse why tf does that terrorizing billionaire have more screentime on what is (nominally) a sequel to Steve and Bucky's movie? We learn more about tony's annoying ass billionaire parents in a desperate attempt for pity than we do about either Bucky or Steve's families… the most we get is a name drop of Steve and Bucky reunion scenes that were clearly cut short if you compare them to the trailers of the movie.
the russos are branded as hacks (and maybe this is me still being bitter as an OG cacw-hater) but after they revealed in interviews that they kept re-editing and re-shooting civil war until half of test audiences sided with tony, that should've been where they were forever banned from filmmaking. that's not making a movie, that's making a product to sell action figures (unfortunately true for most of marvel if we're honest)
"Captain America: the Winter Soldier" nay have listed them by their titles, but that movie is pretty much the only time we see Bucky and Steve as characters most of the time, it's literally the only own with flashbacks to their relationship before the war, before "Captain America" even existed, to where it was just Bucky and Steve.
the vast majority of the marvel franchise treats them as only "Cap" and "Winter Soldier" their actual characters get lost by "creatives" who only have a superficial understanding of them as just two types of action figures to collect, they don't know Steve or Bucky, so we get sequels constantly about "Bucky's a killer robot who must be browbeat at every turn" and "Steve's most important thing in his life is the cap shield and legacy" as if their stories weren't centered around how Bucky was NOT the killer robot and in fact Steve's damn-near guardian angel character before the war and even during (literally killing nazis before they could touch Steve) and as if Steve didn't throw away the shield and Captain America title in each of his movies in favor of what's actually important to him: his oldest protector and the one he wants to protect in return, Bucky.
marvel doesn't even understand Bucky and Steve, they treat them as WS & CA, even though their core canon never showed them caring about the "legacy" and patriotism, it was always incidental at best or an obstacle that gets in the way. the most patriotism was in catfa, but it was always a mantle forced into Steve and his hero team (Howling Commandos) were purposefully diverse and non-American majority recommended by Bucky when Steve joined Bucky in the war to fight nazis. But now marvel wants to retcon in this stuff with lines like Bucky calling Hydra "my people" instead of his oppressors and torturers like they actually were, and storylines about how the patriotic legacy and shield are Steve's whole identity instead of Bucky speaking up and pointing out that none of the other characters actually knew Steve, they only knew "Cap" and "Mr. America" and that Steve literally abandoned the shield as his last public choice with it, so none of it even is his legacy at all.
the sheer gall of (in defense of infinitywar/endgame's BS) people claimed that Bucky would finally get focus again in tfatws, but in the end, only catws gave us flashback scenes of Bucky (and Steve!) before the war before the superhero stuff, meanwhile the d+ show didn't even acknowledge that Bucky's direct family's kids are 1000% alive (he had a big family!) and heard of the real uncle Bucky, and instead the show claimed that Bucky is closest to HYDRA… the ones who tortured him into a mindslave… and he said it to a government mandated therapist (institutionalization by the state) who works for the same government who had the hydra-nazis on payroll and funded Bucky's torture…
no one at marvel even gave a thought about Bucky's family or the direct fault the gov has in his abuse.. no one on screen points out that the state that's institutionalizing him as a felon literally owes him reparations. they could've done a storyline relating to other IRL groups and family descendants who are owed reparations for the USA's domestic and international crimes and how Bucky is a similar case, but instead it's about how Bucky has no family that he was violently imprisoned from and how he's the one at fault and how the government mandated oversight says Bucky should be apologizing for what they funded
Bucky has so many blatant similarities with victims and descendants of IRL state human rights abuses that those states refuse to recognize, but marvel isn't willing to frame in a way that makes the US look bad because they're too busy being patriotic and "respecting the shield" and flag symbols and "legacy" and pretending like the shield is so so so important to Bucky or Steve and retcon out the parts where the shield and the captain america stuff was discarded easily at the emotional climax of each of the first 3 movies in favor of protecting what actually mattered more: each other….
but patriotism tho, the new Cap & WS who replaced Bucky & Steve are too patriotic to point out that the government literally owes their (cuz both ssr/shield & hydra were agencies by them) their two most famous supersoldier experimental test subjects a lot of money and apologies for a long laundry list of reasons
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six-demon-bag · 10 months
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🎶 hello darkness my old friend 🎶
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