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#anti team iron man
sofia-falcon · 5 months
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Bro what are these tags? 🤣🤣🤣, gotta love Stark stans that go off the fucking deep end
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gay-jewish-bucky · 3 months
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did y'all hear anything?
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pandadude55 · 7 months
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saw a post saying tony stark is to the mcu what snape is to harry potter
and i 100% agree - just thought i'd extend it a little
tony stark is to the mcu what snape is to harry potter what dean winchester is to supernatural
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breckstonevailskier · 11 months
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Rewriting Captain America: Civil War to actually make it a Captain America movie
Let's face it, the biggest problem with Civil War is that despite Captain America's name being in the title, it's not really a Captain America movie. It's more like an Iron Man 4 or Avengers 2.5 masquerading as a Captain America movie. I mean, the plot relies more heavily on threads from Avengers: Age of Ultron than it does Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Not to mention the creators deliberately trimmed/cut Team Cap scenes because they wanted audiences to be split 50-50 on what side to take, as if they needed to do that to make Team Iron Man Support a Piece of Legislation That Reads Like Something Written By HYDRA look good. And Tony Stark has more dialogue than Steve Rogers gets. And this is around the time when basically, the writing for the MCU decided to stop letting other characters call Tony out on his wrongdoings.
So how does one fix that?
General changes:
For starters, have HYDRA still be as important as they were in Captain America: The Winter Soldier. Rather than have them be conspicuously absent, they are still very much lurking in the shadows. Bonus points by having the movie strongly imply (and members of Steve's side speculate) that the Sokovia Accords might be a brainchild of HYDRA's. After all, the Accords (and the ways they basically take away the rights and freedoms of enhanced individuals) read like something out of Nazi Germany, the place that Red Skull's HYDRA originated in.
Scene by scene changes:
Lagos aftermath:
The opening act in Lagos remains unchanged. It's a great action setpiece. However, some extra stuff is added to acknowledge that Rumlow's cell is obtaining the bioweapon with the purpose of carrying out an attack directed at people who pose a threat to HYDRA's existence.
In the aftermath, what I would change is the press coverage that goes out of its way to vilify Wanda. T'Chaka's biased take blaming the heroes for the destruction caused by Wanda relocating the explosion can stay, and maybe the second one where if not for the mentions of Wanda, you'd think they were talking about Rumlow. But I'd also add at least one newscast that is speaking favorably of the heroes, and praising Wanda for her efforts.
I'd slightly tweak Steve's scene with Wanda, and instead of saying, "The deaths are on both of us," he'd say, "It's not your fault, Wanda. It's Rumlow's fault. It's not your fault that he was a spiteful coward who decided he wouldn't let us take him in alive." I'd also have a scene or two of Vision doing his best to comfort Wanda and provide her someone to express her thoughts to, not unlike this scene from WandaVision:
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Also a thing I'd fix is that I'd have the Avengers make some sort of press statement to defend Wanda from those who are unfairly vilifying her. Something to the effect of Natasha, Steve, and/or Vision going in front of a gaggle of reporters to read a statement as follows:
For the past month, the Avengers have been in pursuit of Brock Rumlow, international terrorist and confirmed member of HYDRA. Last week, the Avengers tracked him down to Lagos, Nigeria, where his cell was plotting to steal a biological weapon that it is believed they were going to use to carry out an attack that would kill hundreds of people. Acting per their training, the Avengers engaged Rumlow and his men, successfully killing or incapacitating most of them, and reclaiming the bioweapon. Eventually, Rumlow was successfully cornered. However, as Captain America was preparing to arrest Rumlow, he decided to blow himself up. As there were hundreds of people in the immediate area, Wanda Maximoff instinctively stepped in and used her powers to try to relocate the explosion into the sky where it wouldn't kill anyone. Despite Miss Maximoff's efforts, she ended up losing control of the bomb, and it ended up destroying part of one office building. It is a tragedy that despite the Avengers' successful efforts to stop Rumlow, there were still innocent civilian casualties, including the dozen or so people in the office building that were killed by Rumlow when he blew himself up. However, the blame for those deaths does not fall on Wanda Maximoff. Those deaths are the fault of a madman who, two years ago, was part of a plot by an organization dating back to Nazi Germany to use gunships to mass murder 20 million people, and whose motto is "Cut off one head, two more shall take its place." In addition, it needs to be pointed out Miss Maximoff also saved the lives of everyone in that marketplace. If it was not for her split second thinking, hundreds more people would be dead. And if the Avengers were not there in Lagos, a group of terrorists would have successfully released a bioweapon into the world, one capable of killing thousands. The Avengers are not responsible for the destruction brought upon by the bad guys that they are attempting to stop. That blame should start and end with the bad guys.
Because yeah, that would do wonders for Wanda.
Ross blaming the heroes for the destruction caused by the villains:
Yeah, this is something where Ross is a fucking hypocrite. “How about ‘dangerous’? What would you call a group of US-based, enhanced individuals who routinely ignore sovereign borders and inflict their will wherever they choose and who, frankly, seem unconcerned about what they leave behind?” Then his biased presentation showing footage from the Chitauri invasion in New York (The Avengers), the destruction of the Triskelion (Winter Soldier), Sokovia (Age of Ultron), and Lagos. This presentation is clearly done to paint Steve and his allies in a bad light, and Tony in a good light.
Thing is, though, this is just Thaddeus Ross blaming the heroes for the destruction caused by the villains. Not only in every aforementioned situation would things be worse if the Avengers weren't there (New York City would've been nuked by the WSC, HYDRA would've gotten the Project Insight carriers launched and 20 million people dead, Ultron would've wiped out human life, and terrorists would've gotten away with a bioweapon), but Ross is a hypocrite to try to pin this destruction on the heroes given his failures to capture the Hulk and the destruction he caused in his efforts. @thehollowprince posited here that they really should've had Steve call Ross on his hypocrisy right there and then.
Like, in response to Ross's remarks, Steve would speak up to say, "The Avengers as a whole are not responsible for Ultron destroying Sokovia's capital city. If you want to blame someone for that, direct all your blame at that man who decided to go behind his teammates' back to create Ultron," and point an accusatory finger at Tony. And as I said, have Steve throw Ross's failure back in his face to show that he really has no skin in the game.
Passage from thehollowprince's take on what should've been said:
“But, in the spirit of fairness, let’s talk consequences.” Steve went on. “F.R.I.D.A.Y.?” “Yes, Steve?” The A.I. said from the speakers. “Could you roll footage of Culver University, spring semester, 2008?” The screen that had been off immediately clicked back on and began playing back footage from cellphones and cameras of Ross’ failed attempt to contain and capture the Hulk in the middle of a crowded campus, using an unauthorized enhanced human, as well as weapons that put the civilian population in extreme danger. The last image was of the Hulk launching an armored truck at another, the screen immediately going static as the footage was lost. “Harlem, three days later.” The Hulk’s fight with a severely mutated Blonsky showed on the screen next, as well as the atrocities that Emil committed on his own before Banner stepped in to stop him. Ross’s face was reddening at having one of his biggest failures played in front of the very people he was trying to intimidate. Harlem was on of his biggest failures and he did a lot to try and distance himself from it. “Thank you, F.R.I.D.A.Y.” Steve said and the screen froze on an image of the infamous Abomination lifting a car above his head, about to crush it into some police officers. “Tell me, Mr. Secretary, where were your consequences? Because from what I understand, you tried to pin the whole thing on Blonsky and Banner, getting a medal and a promotion for your trouble.”
And, as happens in the hollowprince fix-it, Steve, as a last-minute parting shot, drops a bombshell on Ross that he was on HYDRA's hit list and would've been eliminated by Project Insight in the initial attacks upon the helicarriers' launches.
The Accords debate itself:
The big problem with the debate itself is that it's very one-sided. It's more "Tony and his allies make a lot of flawed points, and no one on Team Cap is allowed to call them out on it." So basically, the way to fix it would be to rewrite the debate using a combination of this one by @thehollowprince, as well as these ficlets on Archive of Our Own.
So, obviously, I would rewrite the debate to be more in Team Cap's favor, while we get multiple opportunities for Tony's side's points to be quickly picked apart and called out. To give examples of how this could go:
Have someone on Team Cap point out the whole fact that HYDRA would benefit greatly from this legislation, since it would curtail the freedom of superheroes' ability to respond quickly. And even for those in the UN who might not be compromised by HYDRA, it's a power grab. And it's also a power grab for Ross.
When Rhodey brings up Ross's medal of honor, have Sam point out (as he does in thehollowprince's fix-it) that a Congressional Medal of Honor doesn't mean shit, and comes off with Ross like a white man being rewarded for doing a subpar job. (Also, have someone remind Rhodey that the Accords would've prevented him and Tony from rescuing the President of the United States from Aldrich Killian had they been in place at the time of Iron Man 3, especially seeing as the Vice President was also in Killian's circle.)
I'd cut Vision's whole BS equation entirely. Instead, I'd have him on the side of Team Cap for this movie, and logic, "The number of potentially world-ending events has risen at a commensurate rate. Oversight is not an idea that can be dismissed out of hand, but the form that is being given to us by Ross is one that makes me calculate that the next world ending event has a likelier chance of succeeding.” (Vision's reason for being on Team Cap here is partly because he cares for Wanda, but mostly because he views himself as human, and the way Ross just dehumanized Thor and the Hulk by likening them to nukes makes Vision think Ross would view him the same way; this would actually be consistent with the will he has in WandaVision where he wished not to be turned into a living weapon, the very will that Tyler Hayward disregarded. On top of which, he realizes that he, Wanda, and Steve would be the most severely impacted by the Accords because they seem to be harsher on those who have innate superpowers than those who have removable suits.)
Have an instance or two of Tony being called out on his America centrism. Particularly when he brings up Charlie Spencer's death. In response to that, I'd have Wanda snap at him with a bit of pure rage. Why would I have Wanda do this? Because he's basically ignoring all the Sokovian citizens who died, up to and including Wanda's brother. "And what about my brother, hmm? What about Pietro? Remember him? Does his death matter to you, Mr. Stark? Or do you not give a shit about him because he's not American?"
Use Ross's antics from The Incredible Hulk to posit that Ross or HYDRA or any party with nefarious intentions could use the clause about demanding enhanced give up blood samples so they could use said DNA to create their own army of super soldiers.
Peggy's funeral, UN bombing, pursuit of Bucky
There's few changes here. But one change I would make is that Steve wouldn't just go with Sam to bring in Bucky. I'd have Wanda and Vision brought along too, because after a serious discussion, they think that the best way to salvage Wanda's reputation with the public is to have her going out to do heroism in public. When they get to where Bucky is hiding out, they bring him in, and Wanda gets to use her telepathic powers to render unconscious some of the SWAT forces sent to bring Bucky in. Then T'Challa joins the pursuit, and they are all captured in the tunnel.
Wanda meets Zemo and T'Challa
We then have the whole setpiece at the detention center where Bucky is detained. Natasha is firmly on Team Cap's side, but is taking a neutral stance to gain dirt on the other side. In addition to all the canon interactions, we also have Wanda interacting with T'Challa and recognizing his revenge quest because she still remembers very well what it was like for her last year wanting revenge against the Avengers, and how badly that ended for her. She empathizes with T'Challa and tries to persuade him to look at the bigger picture, not with much success. When Zemo infiltrates the facility to activate Bucky's Winter Soldier programming, Wanda goes down with Steve to subdue him and ends up encountering Zemo. She recognizes him because she knew his wife and son before they died, she once met him at the dedication of one of the memorials to the victims of Ultron's attack, and he's got a reputation in Sokovia as a killer.
Airport battle
The airport battle obviously is very different. Tony has Rhodey, Spider-Man, T'Challa, and a few other superheroes (or maybe Ross's special forces are there as backup). While Steve has Bucky, Scott, Clint, Wanda, Natasha, Sam, and Vision. This airport battle plays out more in Steve's favor, and despite Tony's efforts, everyone on Steve's side makes it to the quinjet and flees to Siberia with him.
Siberia final act
Steve and his team enter the HYDRA base, and make it to the containment area where the other Winter Soldiers were kept on ice, and have been all put down by Zemo. The fact that the Winter Soldiers are already dead, all shot in the head with a pistol, makes Steve surmise that they're walking into a trap.
They've barely had time to acknowledge this when Team Iron Man arrives and corners them. At this point, Steve is fed up with Tony for having such flawed judgement, and T'Challa still very much is on the warpath against Bucky. But as the two sides prepare to clash once again, Zemo chooses this moment to reveal himself. He wasn't exactly expecting to have an entire Avengers team there, but he's willing to improvise. Zemo even tries to liken his crusade to Wanda's misguided revenge campaign, only for her to shut him down by pointing out that she never wanted innocent people to get hurt, whereas Zemo did murder innocent people for his crusade (T'Challa's father and everyone else at the UN; the doctor that he killed and stole the identity of to get into the detention center to activate Bucky). After that, Zemo plays the surveillance footage of Bucky killing Tony's parents.
The moment Steve and Natasha realize what the footage is showing, Steve gestures for the others on his team to get Bucky away from Tony. Rhodey also realizes that Tony's preparing to attack Bucky, and tries to reason with him, but to no avail. Steve doesn't want Zemo to win, so he clarifies that he didn't know it was the Winter Soldier that HYDRA used to kill Tony's parents. This only enrages Tony further, and a nervous Natasha admits that she was also there when Zola told Steve this information.
In that split second, all hell breaks loose. Tony's rage boils over and he shoots Natasha with one repulsor, throwing her backwards and knocking her out. He tries to shoot Bucky with the other, but Rhodey is able to grab his hand and deflect the blast away from Bucky.
A fight ensues. Like in canon, T'Challa is the one who captures Zemo, though he also has some help from Scott, Spider-Man, and maybe Clint. Meanwhile, the other Avengers are left either fighting Tony, protecting Bucky, or both. With a fight that basically plays out as a mix of "the Guardians plus Iron Man, Spider-Man and Doctor Strange vs. Thanos on Titan" and a bit of "Payback vs. Soldier Boy from The Boys".
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Ultimately, the Avengers still in the bunker succeed in taking down Tony, but Natasha, Rhodey and Bucky take severe injuries in the process. The fight ends when Wanda leaps on Tony from behind and uses her powers to attempt to disorient him, giving Steve an opening to smash his arc reactor with his shield. Vision then tears it out of the armor for good measure.
The Avengers effectively turn their backs on Tony Stark, and the movie ends with them as a whole condemning his misguided actions as well as condemning the Sokovia Accords, and taking the unified position, "After the events that happened in the course of pursuing the person responsible for bombing the UN in Vienna, the Avengers have elected to reject the Sokovia Accords, although we are open to alternative forms of oversight if the UN is willing to negotiate with us and also purge their ranks of anyone who might have ties to HYDRA." They also make publicly condemn Tony for trying to murder Bucky out of misplaced anger. Vision and Wanda settle down in Westview, Clint and Scott return to their families, though they'll still meet up with Steve, Sam, Natasha and Bucky for missions, and Natasha still meets up with Yelena and her old spy "family" to destroy the Red Room.
This then segues into another movie that's about Steve and his team of Avengers (Sam, Natasha, and occasionally Wanda, Vision, and Clint) going around the United States doing everything to get the Accords struck down and Ross removed from office for his abuses of power (especially since while the UN's been forced to let them go, the Raft is a walking human rights violation that no one should be locked up in for any reason).
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🤦‍♂️🤦‍♂️
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I don't trust anyone who thinks the Accords were a good thing, and I trust someone who thinks Tony was a hero in Civil War even less (he had his moments, sure, but that film and Endgame were his absolute nadir).
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hannaxjo · 1 year
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self-care is going through the anti tony stark tag
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edgeheadpeep · 8 months
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To team iron man and team cap y’all need to go outside and touch some grass read a book plant a flower masterbate idk this movie came out SEVEN YEARS AGO this argument is old and dumb it was dumb when it first happened too both did wrong things for the right reasons and most importantly (THEY ARE NOT REAL)I don’t wanna fucking hear it im still seeing this dumb shit on my dash SEVEN FUCKING YEARS LATER get a grip y’all FR anyway I’m team Bucky and Sam for life what y’all know about it
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I just can’t with all the “cap would definitely be homophobic because he was born in the 40’s” takes. Because a lot of the people with these opinions then right around and make Bucky completely cool with everything, even though he too was from the 40’s. “But he was still alive all this time.” Yes- he was alive and kept in a cyrochamber and repeatedly brainwashed- by a group of NAZIS, who amongst many things, were homophobic as well.
This is not me saying Bucky is or would be homophobic. This is me thinking that it’s clear when it comes to the “but Steve would initially be homophobic” stance, it is just from people (usually T*ny/Team I**n M** Stans) who want to find fault with Steve.
But it’s clear they’ve never done their research. Captain America’s stance on LGBTQ+ issues was addressed in the early 1980’s, with the introduction of Steve’s gay best friend, Arnie Roth. Arnie was, much like Bucky, bigger and stronger than pre-serum Steve, and would often protect him from neighborhood bullies- Arnie and his family became Steve’s second home, and while the two did drift apart (Steve’s mom died, WWII started, and Arnie joined the Navy)
But when they do meet again, it’s (if I recall correctly, after the Iceberg incident, and steve wakes up in the future) when Arnie needs Steve’s help to save Michael, his boyfriend of ten years. Arnie claims Michael is his “roommate” but embraces him passionately upon his rescue, with a text box in the corner claiming there will be time for questions “later.” And while we never see the questions asked, we do get a confirmation of their love the comic writers even make sure to include a part where steve delivers a speech on the beauty of love, and the beauty of the love that is shared between Michael and Arnie.
So just. Homophobic steve my ASS- (the homophobic villain who kidnaps Arnie and forces him in a self-debasing song and dance is actually Zemo)
Its honestly just a lazy "gotcha" to call Steve homophobic or racist when there's nothing in canon to support it. Meanwhile, you have Tony making transphobic and sexist jokes but no, Steve's the problematic one 🙄.
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thewhinesofmoria · 2 years
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I was browsing Instagram and then I saw some CW nonsense and now I’m annoyed all over again.
People who try to “bOtH SiDeS!” that conflict are arguably worse than the outright, still-dying-on-their-hill-of-bullshit T--m Ir*n M*n supporters. I don’t know how anyone can look at a group of people who oppose human rights violating garbage that’s pushed by shady politicians under shady circumstances and go “Yeah, they’re totally the same as the group pushing said legislation, all while kidnapping teenagers and attempting murder and still braying on about being ‘put in check.’ Definitely the same. No difference.”
These same people will also be like, “They coulda taaaaaaalked.” As if everyone is equally responsible for the “communication breakdown.” As if Sam and Steve didn’t try to talk (on multiple occasions), only to be steamrolled over with fallacies and bullshit. Like, what the fuck were they supposed to do?
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ircn-dad · 8 months
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Can we talk about how cute it is that Peter thought Tony was that tall for the bunny ears?
And also... does that mean they didn't plan at all to do bunny ears to each other? I mean, if they had planned it, Peter would have checked to see if he was doing them right.
So that means that originally the photo was going to be with Tony's arm around Peter's back, and Peter's arm around Tony's shoulders.
These two will never stop making me cry.
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illicthearts · 8 months
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I watched Infinity War today, sometimes I question why I liked it so much because half the things they do pisses me off. Especially Quill he pisses me off so much.
And STEVE, don’t even get me started on him. “We don’t trade lives,” JUST A MOVIE A GO YOU WERE PREACHING THAT WE NEED ACCEPT THAT IN YOUR LINE OF WORK YOU CAN’T SAVE EVERYONE. And than he goes ahead sacrifices a bunch of people (POCs) to save a ROBOT! Who mind you could be made again.
But I guess that only applies to faceless people. Not to the people you know personally and especially not if Wanda loves that person. I hate his hypocritical ass so much.
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sofia-falcon · 1 year
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I fucking hate Tony even more after his comments towards Nat about her being a double agent and "sticking to her DNA" Natasha was literally KIDNAPPED and FORCED to be a Widow, it's worse after Black Widow because almost all the Widows were brainwashed and hell Taskmaster was a slave to her own body. Tony did all of his dumbass decisions himself!!!!
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gay-jewish-bucky · 11 months
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imagine thinking ca:cw existed for a reason that wasnt an rdj tantrum that forced them to scrap cap 3 which was supposed to be focused on steve, bucky and sam, and instead make into ironman 4🤣🤣🤣
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pandadude55 · 1 year
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first post but i just saw this on a youtube video about how tony was a terrible person. like why post this on the video when u know the people seeing it would be people who don't like tony. also like all of these points can be easily debunked cause they don't make any sense at all. this person is acting like everything good n progressive that happened in the mcu was down to tony n no one else did anything productive which is not true as well. i just don't understand the point of this comment so enjoy looking at this :)
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breckstonevailskier · 2 years
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What if Vision was the airport battle turncoat?
The concept art for Captain America: Civil War includes one piece where Vision phases his hand through Tony's arc reactor in order to stop him from attacking Wanda, which would've alluded to a similar scene where Vision shuts down Iron Man's armor in the original Civil War comic. This seems to suggest that in earlier drafts, Vision was either part of Team Cap during the airport battle, or betrayed Team Iron Man at a key moment, similar to how Natasha uses her Widow's Bite to stun and incapacitate T'Challa so Steve and Bucky can escape on the Quinjet.
Honestly, it makes me wonder if Vision, not Natasha, should've been the member of Team Iron Man who served as a turncoat in the airport battle. Natasha's motive seems to be that she realized Tony's judgement was off, or she was always Team Cap but pretending to be for the other side because she wanted to get the lay of that side of the political landscape concerning the Accords and pass this information to Steve.
Vision, meanwhile, has a much stronger and personal motive to change sides: his feelings for Wanda. He's developed feelings for Wanda ("What is grief, if not love persevering?" 😍😭), but they're also on opposite sides of the Accords debate since he's for them and she's against them. So Vision turning on Team Iron Man because of his feelings for Wanda would be an interesting plot point that could also allow him to get onscreen the development he seems to undergo offscreen between Civil War and Infinity War.
Another reason it would make sense for Vision to be in this position is because it would make more sense for him to be stuck in the middle. Like, he makes this argument in favor of the Accords...
"In the 8 years since Mr. Stark announced himself as Iron Man, the number of known enhanced persons has grown exponentially. And during the same period, the number of potentially world-ending events has risen at a commensurate rate. [...] I'm saying there may be a causality. Our very strength invites challenge. Challenge incites conflict. And conflict...breeds catastrophe. Oversight...oversight is not an idea that can be dismissed out of hand."
...but at the same time, he also knows that he probably has less rights than a human because he doesn't quite meet the legal standard of well...personhood. He can put on a human disguise for sure, but since he's not a natural-born human, the Accords will not be kind to him in the same way they won't be kind to the Avengers who have innate superpowers (Steve, Wanda, and Thor if he was around) as opposed to being really skilled Muggles (Clint and Natasha) or having removable suits (Tony and Rhodey). Not to mention we have proof of this thanks to WandaVision. We know in that show that the Accords outlawed sentient weapons (which is why Hayward's a criminal for trying to bring Vision "back online to life" and trying to coerce Wanda into doing it for him), and I doubt that Tyler Hayward's the only bureaucrat to see Vision as nothing more than government property.
Having him be a turncoat in the airport battle would also be consistent with Vision's character when one considers how often he lets his feelings for Wanda compromise his moral beliefs. I've seen some people posit that him shooting down Rhodey wasn't a case of his beam being off while trying to shoot Sam, but as him intentionally hurting Rhodey as retaliation for Rhodey using a sonic cannon earlier on Wanda to cause her to drop the rubble of the control tower that Vision needlessly destroyed. Not to mention that the zombie episode of What If...? had Vision feeding people to a zombified Wanda because he couldn't bear the thought of having to kill her.
So having Vision turn coat in the airport battle to help Wanda escape would also go a long way as far as him providing an olive branch to Wanda for when they start their relationship between between Civil War and Infinity War. Though obviously this would probably mean having to rewrite the final act to put Wanda in Siberia, because if Wanda still ends up in the Raft, Vision's decision is all for naught. This might be a problem since the writers clearly intended for the showdown in Siberia to be with just Tony, Steve, and Bucky. Not sure what contributions Wanda would have in Siberia, other than maybe this feeling of looking herself in the mirror when Zemo describes his motivations for revenge.
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An alternate way the airport battle should've ended:
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Yep, I've read this. Great stuff.
Sometime in the near future I'll do another fanfic rec series, and Gibbs_yeah will absolutely be part of it.
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