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booksandabeer · 3 months

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Ramblings on Fandom: Peggy Carter, Steve Rogers, Delusional Shippers, and Alleged Misogyny

So with the release of Season 2 of What If…? emotions are once again running high, the outrage is outraging, and people are up in arms about the whole Captain Carter situation. While I do think that some reactions are a little overblown, even needlessly aggressive in tone to the unfortunate detriment of their otherwise convincing arguments, I share the confusion and frustration about the sudden centering of a long-dead & never excessively popular character, the sidelining of the Steve-Bucky friendship, and the as-inexplicable-as-it-is-total exclusion of Sam Wilson as Captain America. However, I’m not here to talk about the show because (1) I haven’t watched this season and have no plans to (why waste time torturing myself with something I know I’ll hate?) and (2) other people have already written dozens of metas about it, so what could I possibly add at this point.

What I do want need to talk about (lest I explode) is something that has irritated me for a long time and that is now happening again: Every time someone even mildly criticizes Peggy Carter, expresses doubts about her suitability as a heroine, or even just questions her disproportionate importance to the franchise post-EG, inevitably a certain section of fans will come out of the woodwork to immediately throw around accusations of misogyny and yell about how we’re all just a bunch of delusional Stuckies who are mad that she got "in the way" of our ship. Sigh.

This is gonna be a long one, so I’ll put it under a cut. Rant incoming. You've been warned. If you don't want to read, simply scroll on by.

First of all, let me state very clearly that I’m not debating the existence of misogyny and sexism in fandom spaces—or in the media from which these fandoms originate. At all. It exists, it’s a thing, I’m not denying that. Which is exactly why it frustrates me endlessly to see these accusations thrown around as a gotcha! argument to shut down any and all critical debate around a female character. All it does in the end is escalate rhetoric and radicalize attitudes.

In the case of Peggy Carter, specifically her treatment by Stucky shippers, I’ve always found 'misogyny as a motive' to be a largely unsubstantiated accusation.¹ Now, I neither presume nor do I want to speak for the entirety of Stuckynation, so I will not claim that there aren't corners of the fandom where people discuss her in ways that I find off-putting and deeply unserious, but I will say this: If you genuinely believe that disliking one (1) fictional female character equals “hating all women” and wanting to suppress and marginalize their presence in fiction and real life alike—then I think we need to take that word away from you until you’ve learned its true meaning.

You might also want to ask yourself how exactly reducing a female character to a mute trophy wife or a heroine who has to act out her love interest’s recycled storylines helps your feminist fight.

As to the “standing in the way of your ship” part of the argument. Very simply put: No character can stand in the way of something if there never ever was “a way” to that something to begin with. “Being mad” implies that there was a reasonable expectation that wasn’t met, a substantive hope that was crushed. Now, I’ve said this before and I’ll gladly say it again a million more times: No Stucky shipper in their right mind ever truly thought that there was even the slightest chance that Marvel Studios owned by the Walt Disney Company would allow Steve “Captain America” Rogers and Bucky “Winter Soldier” Barnes to be canonized as an explicitly romantic pairing in their billion dollar franchise. Be serious. That was never in the cards. I wish we all lived in a world where it was, but we don’t, and it wasn’t. The best we could ever hope for was for Steve and Bucky to get a good, satisfying, in-character ending. And if, in Steve’s case, that would’ve included hints (or more) about a possible rekindling of his, uh, aborted romance with Sharon—then so be it. But we never got any of that. The characters never got any of that. Instead they sent Steve into 1950s suburban hell, literally trapped him behind a white picket fence, and condemned him to a life of passivity and lies, all so he could be married to a woman he barely knew a long time ago in a completely different world; who built and ran a top-to-bottom Hydra-infested organization, but apparently never noticed that there was anything wrong with her life's work. For decades. Great. As for Bucky—well, we’ve all seen the devastatingly grim-faced, utterly lonely, and deeply sad version of him that was presented to us in TFATWS. Happy endings all around, I guess.

So. Am I mad that Steve didn’t get to ride into the rainbow-colored sunset with Bucky at the end of EG? No. Because that was never going to happen anyway. Would I have been mad had he ended up with Sharon or another female character in the 21st century? Also no. Granted, I wouldn’t have been ecstatic about it, but mad? No. But am I mad that Steve ended up with this specific female character under these specific circumstances as presented in canon? Fuck yeah, I am.

The thing is: I personally believe Steve and Peggy to be fundamentally incompatible when it comes to the way they view the world and their respective places in it; their morals and values; their capacity for compassion and empathy; their ability and willingness to compartmentalize, compromise, and collaborate with people and institutions whose ethics and/or politics do not align with their own. I have a real hard time believing that a relationship between these two (or worse, a hasty marriage) could be either happy or long-lasting.

I don’t believe Peggy to be inherently evil, I don’t hate her, I simply think she operates within a different moral framework than Steve (and even genuinely believes it to be a righteous one).² Your mileage may vary, but I personally happen to find that framework reprehensible, even indecent, and ultimately dangerous. After all, over the course of the 20th century, we have seen exactly where that kind of “the ends justify the means” brand of pragmatism leads—over and over again. Not to mention that the people who use this line of argument to defend characters like Peggy (or real-life politicians for that matter) never seem to want to look too closely at who gets to define what "the ends" are in the first place and who decides when they've finally been met.

(Never. The answer is never.)

And to be clear, there is absolutely nothing wrong with depicting, and even centering a narrative around a morally (dark)gray character—oftentimes it’s actually the more interesting option—but you cannot at the same time claim that they are purely good and should be only admired as such when their actions literally tell an entirely different story.

So, no. I will not accept Peggy Carter as the shining aspirational heroine that the MCU so badly wants to sell her to me as—while simultaneously continuing to reveal things that paint an increasingly darker picture of her character. And I will certainly not celebrate seeing one of my favorite characters of all time—whose defining trait was that he couldn't ignore "a situation pointed south"; who used to fight for the little guy and against the establishment; who once said about the very organization that Peggy Carter helped build that it was so corrupt, it all needed to go—rendered morally inert for some hollow happy ending that may as well be a conservative’s wet dream full of false nostalgia for an America that never really existed. I cannot find it in me to be anything less but mad about that.

But that does not make me a misogynist. It does not make me a delusional shipper. It makes me someone who looks at what the MCU has been telling me about Peggy Carter for years now—over and over again—and takes it at its own word.

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¹ If you’ve actually read a a fair number of Stucky(!) fanfics you will have noticed that the reverence afforded to and "page time" devoted to her character and her relationship with Steve is somewhat disproportionate to anything that's backed up by canon—well, up until EG, where she was suddenly reanimated as The Great Love of Steve’s Life—and in my experience, it's highly unusual for any fandom to put so much (mostly) positive attention on another character, let alone a potential love interest that is not part of the endgame ship.

² I also want to emphasize that if you love Peggy and she's your fave: good for you! I genuinely have no beef with you. People can agree to disagree. All I ask for is that we maybe stop willfully ignoring the less savory aspects of her character. You don't need to pretend she's perfect to justify your affection for her. I LOVE Steve, and yet I have no problem conceding that he is FAR from perfect.

#*drops post & runs away* i may regret this but it's my blog and i rant if i want to #i know some people will roll their eyes & i debated posting this at all but i simply had to get it off my chest once and for all.#so there. now i can be free. or something.#also i have no idea what to tag this & i personally find 'anti' tags silly bc why is critical discussion automatically labeled as 'anti'?#but whatever i'll play nice. so i guess:#anti peggy carter #anti steggy #anti endgame #hope that covers it #wading into the dIsCoUrsE

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lnsfawwi · 4 months

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bucky is anti-peggy: their relationships with steve and why bucky will always overshadow peggy as love interest

hardly anything novel but I have to get it out of my system. interpretations are strictly in-universe just to be fair. also seb headcanons are canon, I won't hear otherwise!

the difference between stucky and steggy can be summed up by their respective reactions to beefed-up Steve. someone on tumblr points out that these two scenes also serve as analogies of their relationships. steggy would always be about peggy reaching out, their relationship would be under the spotlight, be the center of attention while stucky is the reverse. I just want to add to that.

Peggy was literally dazzled, she tried to touch his naked body, she was eager to see what this body could do (sexually, among other things). that's the first time she saw steve as sexually attractive, the first time she saw steve at all if we are honest, and what she saw was this jacked-up version of him, an icon-to-be, someone whom steve never really accepted as himself. In essence, the first time she really paid attention to steve as the love interest, was the moment steve became someone else.

Bucky, who was tortured for days, if not weeks, still delirious, was confused bc that was not his steve, he probably didn't even think Steve was real at first. Bucky was experimented on, he likely knew there were similar human experiments aimed to enhance, he knew science like that was possible, but whose science? so that's the first question, 'what happened?' Steve joined the army, okay, so this was not forced onto him, probably. then the next thing he asked was, 'did it hurt?' he didn't care how strong it made Steve, he only wanted assurance that Steve was fine. like, what if the process hurt? what could bucky possibly do? nothing. it's not about whether it hurt, it was just bucky simply giving a shit about steve's wellbeing. we don't even need to get into the 'little kid from brooklyn' line.

peggy witnessed a magical transformation and was amazed by the eventual product but bucky saw his best friend who must've gotten through something excruciating. peggy could never fall in love with skinny steve when that's all bucky saw, until the very end (sebastian said bucky probably never got used to big steve).

another contrast would be the final plane crash. sebastian was asked whether Bucky would've gotten on that plane with Steve or stayed behind like Peggy. seb's answer is that Bucky would've tried to get on that plane cuz he felt responsible for steve, and he'd fall again.

the thing is that, had Bucky been on that plane, Steve never would've crashed it. he would've done anything to save Bucky. he didn't have to crash that plane which was canon (pointed out by rhodey). steve could've got out but he didn't. Bucky being there would've given him the motivation to do so. any other person would tbh, but only Bucky would be willing to be on that plane bc Peggy canonly wasn't. in addition to bucky's willingness to follow steve literally into the jaws of death, in this hypothetical scenario, Bucky would be the reason for Steve to live in catfa.

that leads to yet another contrast.

'just go! get out of here!' 'no, not without you!'

steve, who had no idea what he was capable of, jumped through fire for bucky.

'don't do this, there's still time, let me find a way...' 'a lot of people are gonna die if I don't do this, peggy. this's my choice.'

despite peggy's pleading, steve crashed the plane.

the word choice appeared several times in catfa. the first time was when peggy told philip that it was steve's choice (to die trying to save bucky). the second time was when peggy told steve that bucky made a choice (to die fighting with him). and the third time was when steve told peggy it was his choice (to sacrifice himself). it's no coincidence that each and every time the choice was each other, steve echoing the word at the end made it clear that he was doing this for bucky.

a relationship goes both ways. steve and bucky are canonly willing to, and did, die and live for each other. peggy simply doesn't have that level of impact on steve. in fact, steve literally repeatedly chose bucky over her in catfa.

put it simply, bucky and steve care more about each other than themselves, peggy didn't even care about skinny steve in that sense. she also literally couldn't because she only met skinny steve twice. briefly.

plus as I said previously bucky is the only one standing in between a traditional cishet hypermasculine image of steve and the real steve, peggy is the one element that fulfils the false image.

everything bucky is, peggy is the opposite. the differences quite literally result in different interpretations of steve. and who can say honestly that endgame steve is better than cap trilogy steve？

#bucky barnes #steve rogers #stucky #stevebucky #anti steggy #captain america the first avenger #stucky is in the narrative #captain america #I used SO MANY literally omg #I'm so bad at writing

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kamwashere · 4 months

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steve and bucky’s story being given to steve and peggy in what if OHHHH THE HATECRIME IS HATECRIMING STILL

#how dare they descrate ca:ws like this #stucky #anti steggy #steve rogers #bucky barnes #peggy carter #what if #mcu #kamwashere

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captainwidowspring · 5 months

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I am currently writing a paper on the music of the Captain America trilogy, and this has caused me to notice an exceedingly interesting detail that I previously missed. In The First Avenger, after Peggy shoots at Steve, a melody that sounds very similar to the Captain America theme plays. This repeats twice: one time when she puts the gun down and stalks away, and again while Steve and Howard are so shocked by what Peggy just did that they stare after her even as they continue their conversation.

This is quite disgusting, as it rather implies that Peggy just did something noble and honorable, or something that Steve would approve of, when this is not even close to the case. Steve would never be so thoroughly irresponsible and reckless, nor would he approve of such pettiness, or partake in it himself. Indeed, it is clear to see how betrayed Steve felt when he was cautiously ensuring that she was done shooting at him. The music also disingenuously tries to reframe the characters' reactions to her outburst as positive. The fact that the almost-Captain-America theme continues after Peggy leaves Steve and Howard staring after her endeavors to make it seem like their reaction is because they're impressed, rather than because they are stunned and dismayed as is far more likely.

And what's worse, this is not even the only time that the music disagrees with how the characters are acting in its haste to glorify Peggy and promote Steggy. Later in the movie, after Peggy kisses Steve without his consent, a happy little horn melody plays, even though it is pretty clear that the kiss upset Steve, and did not please him. The music seriously did a surprising amount of heavy-lifting for Steggy.

But in any case, this does help explain why so many people have no problem with Peggy assaulting Steve, and even see it as a good thing: the music is encouraging them to see it that way. This is yet another example of how influential framing can be.

#anti peggy carter #anti steggy #captain america the first avenger #catfa #random musical musings

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rogersstevie · 2 months

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really and truly unless it's a discussion about why peggy/steggy fans shouldn't like endgame, at this point idk why people feel the need to continually make the argument about her having a family as if that's the biggest problem about the ending especially when i figure most people are of the belief that it was another timeline or whatever idk what the current consensus on that is in the mcu and i don't care

but what about the fact that it destroyed steve's family? does that not matter because it's not the standard spouse and children but is instead a family he built for himself with sam and nat and bucky? because it's easier to decide steve is a selfish asshole and always has been instead of acknowledging that that storyline did more of a disservice to him than to anyone else? like oh maybe peggy's family was erased and that's horrible but it doesn't matter that steve's family was abandoned in the midst of the kind of trauma he knows very well?

i've said it before but it makes me so sad that so many people just turned on steve and decided a decade of movies don't matter in the face of one shitty desperate attempt of a movie to make him look like a pathetic creep just so they could justify their heterosexual nonsense ending

#steve rogers #anti steggy #anti endgame #also just occurred to me how part of the whole bullshit about not undoing five years #was so tony's daughter wouldn't be erased (even though like hey pepper could've already been pregnant in iw and it would've been fine)#but they had no qualms about peggy's family (since the writers and directors didn't even agree about the timelines)#bc peggy does not matter as anything other than steve's love interest lol and they just continue showing that as far as i can tell #marvel does not care about her as being anything but part of a ship that only ended up together #as a fulfillment of male fantasies and to try to squash stevebucky #so idk why fans are so defensive of marvel on that front #in the end anything redeeming that they wrote for her character was negated and stripped down so she's just a girlboss and a prize #neither of which are good things no matter how hard y'all try to put a feminist spin on it!

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beep-cares · 4 months

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still think ab the fact they made steve go marry a nazi apologist and probably fuck up some sort of time stuff ALL because they didnt want the public to ship him with the man he has done everything for and is very obviously in love with (who is based off a gay jew)

They made STEVE ROGERS marry a NAZI APOLOGIST instead of a man based off a GAY JEW

#stevebucky #stucky #steve x bucky #anti peggy carter #SHES A NAZI APOLOGIST BASED OFF A NAZI OKAY SERIOUSLY GUYS #anti steggy #steve rogers #bucky barnes

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luna-rainbow · 4 months

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What if S2E05

Ew. Genuinely do not recommend watching, purely from a writing point of view. It feels like I've just watched someone wanking off to themselves and walked away covered in goo.

I'm just saying 90% of the fanfics on AO3 is less stomach-churning than this crap.

Cut for language.

This episode starts off with just...the most wankerish introduction ever from The Watcher. What is this, 6th grade creative writing? His speech was basically "the bestest Mary Sue to ever Mary Sue is to Mary Sue in this upcoming Mary Sue episode! Did I tell you she's a Mary Sue?"

They really just...cut Sam out of his first and major appearance in the MCU. I mean...between Sam's glaring omission and somehow having the lead Widow antagonist (other than Melina) being a Black woman, in an episode featuring Ms Brexit...I'm not saying you should join the dots but the dots be damn there.

How come she gets to yell at Fury and Nat for hiding Steve from her but everyone is pretending that Steve would be fine with Peggy never telling him about Bucky. The math ain't mathing.

Fury tells her to sit out of the fight and Peggy whirls on him with the most possessive Karen snarl, "I'm Peggy Carter and we're talking about ~Steve Rogers~" Just. EW.

Steve literally has no personality or character beyond "UwU I just wanna be your lover~" the whole way, which. The writing was just not good enough to carry off and it just comes across like a juvenile self-insert fanfic.

OH FFS Not only is she stealing this whole Winter Soldier storyline she gotta steal NAT'S MOVES of beating up the Winter Soldier just FOR FUCK'S SAKE GET YOUR OWN PLOT WOMAN.

"Even in Russia girls grow up dreaming of being Captain Carter."

EWW WHY???

I can't believe this script got greenlit. She's the best she's flawless she's got a perfect love story and everyone wanna be her! Without showing you anything that proves that.

Pffft the shield dropping and the sob story (which Steve fanfic did they lift that monologue from because it sounds awfully familiar). At least they didn't try pulling the end of the line.

Oh and Steve saves her ass at the end of the day.

So not only is she a Mary Sue, she's a Mary Sue who still fucking needs a man to finish off her job. Like. This is the dumbest kind of story telling.

Sebastian doing an old man voice was the much needed breath of fresh air in this episode until I remember that it was probably a trial run for his Trump voice.

*Scrubs brain*

BTW Bucky clearly was not a morally corrupt character like Pierce and I guess...no shit, he wasn't the one who used Operation Paperclip to recruit Zola into the organisation, but I'm not sure the general audience would make that distinction.

#anti peggy carter #anti what if #bucky barnes #steve rogers #anti steggy #fuck it was so bad i don't think i'd be able to sleep #honestly this episode single handedly ruins bucky steve and nat and cuts out sam #it is SO bad

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greyelfsworld · 10 months

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#Source material is strong #I can give that #anti endgame #anti marvel #anti steggy #steve rogers #stucky #bucky barnes #chris evans #james buchanan barnes #sebastian stan #stevebucky #white wolf #winter soldier

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rainbowsuitcase · 4 months

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Finished the second season of What If and I need to say something about Peggy.

I feel like her story isn't really "What if Peggy Carter was Captain America" but more "What if Captain America was a woman." I feel like if they put a random female character into that suit, the story would have stayed the same.

Because Peggy doesn't really have a character. She's a badass woman. She's a strong female character who can get by on her own and yay! Feminism!

Sure.

She's not a character, she's an archetype. And given what archetype she is, I was honestly surprised that they kept tying her back to Steve. Even in the actually alternate storylines of the last two episodes, they kept bringing up Steve and tying her motivations back to him. Everything we learn about Captain Carter is somehow connected to Steve.

If Steve doesn't exist, her story doesn't really work. Her character exists to be a badass independent female superhero and the creators couldn't even do that right.

The creators keep shoving her and Steve together like a little kid playing with dolls and I need them to find new toys to play with, because these ones are old and worn down and broken.

You broke it, you don't get to play with it anymore!

#does this metaphor make sense #idc the topic doesn't either #peggy carter #steve rogers #captain america #captain carter #marvel what if #anti steggy #also where tf is sam wilson #they literally re-told the story of winter soldier #where is falcon!

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steveandbuckysdaughter · 4 months

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I never thought, as a Steve stan loyal to him to the core, that I would have preferred effing TONY STARK to him in this episode.

But fr Steve is making my skin crawl with this Peggy bullshit.

And when Tony isn’t a self righteous ass I actually like him. Or maybe it’s just complete desperation and lack of will to live.

#Tony stark #Steve rogers #anti Peggy Carter #anti steggy #what if #what if season 2 #what if spoilers #Steve stop it’s not funny anymore #plus why tf is Bucky sidelined so much??

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meraki-yao · 4 months

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Okay I haven't watched the MCU in a while and honestly at this point all I care about is Bucky, Wanda, Loki and maybe Shangchi but I watched a summary of the baby Starlord episode and the Captain Carter episode of the new What-if (not really interested in watching the whole thing but Bucky's in it so yeah) and as a Cap girl who loves CATWS so much that it's one of my all-time favourite movie, what Marvel's doing to the whole Steve-Bucky-Peggy (that I've been having issues with since Endgame) is driving me insanely frustrated.

I fucking HATE it when people more or less lessen or ruin what was originally so well-written and performed in the original that serves to drive the character that led to them being so well loved

Like, stucky doesn't need to be queer romantic to be significant. (And I'm saying this as a Stucky shipper whose whole exposure to AO3 and Tumblr started with Stucky) It is a significant, important and heavy relationship REGARDLESS if it's platonic or romantic. Erasing that and forcefully making it Steggy doesn't work, drives the og audience away from Steggy and frankly, it's kind of homophobic

Also it's incredibly unfair that Steve's significance to Bucky remains while vice versa isn't, even though THAT'S ONE OF THE TWO DRIVING MOTIVATIONS OF ALL OF STEVE'S ACTIONS IN CACW. Are you really trying to convince me that a bond so deep that they've been inseparable all their lives since they were kids and well into their adulthood, is less significant, or is effective as a memory trigger (and I fucking studied the basic of memory recall) than the significant shorter Steggy romance? What the fuck????

I almost want to write a whole essay on the Steve-Bucky-Peggy relationship, but I currently have enough writing tasks (fics, emails, letters, essays) on my plate. I'll see if I wanna come back to it later.

#marvel #mcu #marvel cinematic universe #what if #marvel what if #what if season 2 #stevebucky #stucky #anti steggy #honestly I used to fluctuate between steggy and stucky but endgame and everything that came after made me so uncomfortable with steggy #steve rogers #peggy carter #bucky barnes #captain america #captain carter #i have an issue with the whole captain carter thing to begin with #and i'm a girl so no this is not about feminism it's about story/character assassination #what the fuck marvel what the fuck #i didn't expect myself to make a post on marvel at this day and age but i'm just so fucking angry

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buckymilf · 8 months

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I'm tired of the "Steve goes back in time to dance with p-ggy" fics. The fact that after that he goes back to Bucky doesn't make it any better, especially if it was P-ggy who "made him come to his senses" to return to the present after abandoning him; She deserves nothing after all she did, not even that Steve would even consider seeing her, unless it was to reprimand her actions, or better yet, receive punishment; Surely Steve must be mad at her for her role in Hydra's rebirth and Bucky's suffering?

this!!! I'm so sick and tired of this endgame "fix it" where it's just more peggy praising and making her more important to steve's life than she actually is... do they think steve would just dancing with a woman while being well aware that at the same moment bucky is suffering several horros by hydra? by the same guy SHE is working with? that she hired? that's not my steve, bucky in first place and his ideals too.

#anti steggy #anti peggy carter #ask #mcu critical

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lnsfawwi · 4 months

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why marvel hates stucky? because Captain America is (should be) a man

let's be real. Marvel isn't erasing stucky, they are merely erasing Bucky from Steve's storyline, not the other way around, they even went so far as to canonly admitting that Steve's Bucky's homecoming. why can they tolerate a possibly queer Bucky but not Steve? because to them, Steve Rogers is Captain America and Captain America is this white, straight, masculine national hero who embodies the traditional male fantasy. Bucky is just a sidekick that no one gives a fuck about while Sam is never gonna be the real Cap. bucky is the 'other' and by nature he is not important, he is put in a inferior position and his femininity (being queer) is slightly more acceptable than steve's.

what's funny is that, only Bucky saw Steve Rogers when the whole damn world sees Captain America. Bucky Barnes is the one that makes Steve Steve, as long as Bucky exists Steve can't be the hypermasculine icon Marvel wants him to be. why? bc it's in the fucking narrative. in this sense, Bucky Barnes is the only thing that stands in between Steve and the erroneous reading and presentation of Steve's character. So, he has to be removed.

and I'll expand that on the stomper or whatever knockoff ironman suit they put him in in WhatIf

there's a wonderful meta about why Steve is a feminine character. his masculinity isn't born but made and he was objectified and ridiculed for it. that artificial masculinity gave him the feminine experience and that's what makes him fascinating as an ostensibly hypermasculine hero. this dichotomy between Steve and Captain America created by that body is one of many reasons why Steve ≠ Captain America. by putting him in that suit, they are emulating masculinity with a giant piece of metal and tech that has phallic analogies written all over.

and that makes Steve, what? a knockoff tony stark? bc tony at least designed the thing. Steve is just a dude borrowing it. there's no depth and certainly no positive gendered reading came out of it. he becomes this simplistic male hero fantasy (like ironman). then, Marvel swapped Steve and Bucky's storylines but lost all the nuances because bucky is also heavily female-coded, especially his suffering as the winter soldier. the cartoon has none of that.

marvel is entirely ignorant as to why the Cap trilogy the best Marvel movies and steve&bucky the best characters, and they wonder now why steggy isn't well received. erasing Bucky from Steve's plot just makes the character boring. stucky isn't popular (entirely) bc they were played by cute white guys. it's bc their relationship adds depth, GENDERED DEPTH, to them and that's relatable to all the women that made the fandom so goddanm influential. Steve Rogers isn't your white male fantasy no matter how hard you try.

#bucky barnes #steve rogers #stucky #stevebucky #what if #marvel #marvel mcu #what if...?#anti steggy #I'm not even touching the blatant homophobia at play here #because masculinity and homophobia always go hand in hand #I hate that they put steve in that travesty metal suit #they erased everything that made steve appealing to female audiences #and called it feminism?#what the actual fuck #anti MCU #stucky is in the narrative

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