ngl i feel like the way people placed far too much importance on peggys influence in steves life and their 'relationship' + the incredibly stupid fandom attitudes and convictions about how sexuality works that were super pervasive in the early 2010s led to how for a long time anyone who thought steve might be gay basically got attacked like. the idea that 'erasing' a cishet white relationship is actually discrimination was somehow a genuine take i still cant wrap my head around
tho i do wanna clarify i dont mean to like demean ppl who hc steve as bi in any way i think its a great headcanon but also i think people taking popular headcanons and making them into some unshakeable gospel in fandom is. not great and makes people forget that headcanons dont need reasoning and that its all pretend anyways ig? plus i really do think people just put all the undue importance onto straight white relationships like steggy even though theres basically zero indication of actual Love™
to me, Steve will always be bisexual. it's an incredibly important headcanon for my heart and I can't view him as anything other than bisexual, and that's probably due to the fact I'm bisexual and we're absolutely starved for any good representation of bisexuals and bisexuality and I love and adore Steve Rogers.
but!! I think it's vital that the idea of Steve being gay isn't something that's just shot down. clearly him being bi is important to me as a bisexual, so him being gay may be very important to gay guys and gals (or just, like, people who want to see him as gay, whatever their sexuality is). just because he kissed a woman once doesn't necessarily mean he was attracted to her; there are plenty of reasons a gay person might end up kissing/dating someone of the opposite sex, that doesn't mean they're not gay.
and Disney's never going to tell us he's gay or bi, so he can be either!! both headcanons are just as useful and interesting and important as the other!!
in the wise words of Mark Hamill:
and as for steggy... yeah. I saw a people after Endgame talking about how important Peggy was and how if you didn't like the ending you were just ignoring and erasing their love ("because you just want everything to be gay"). which is certainly an Interesting opinion. other people have gone into this better than I can, but yeah, the two of them were by no means definitely in love. infatuation, maybe? a deep mutual respect and admiration, I'd argue.
it's possible that they'd even confuse that mutual respect and admiration for love (considering that this would be the only sort of relationship that would be expected between the two of them - and clearly also the only sort of relationship a lot of people still expect between a man and woman).
I think Peggy was important in a similar way that Erskine and Howard and Phillips were all important to Steve. not to the same degree that Bucky and all of Steve's new friends/family in the 21st century are important to his story moving forward. and not to the degree that she was his inspiration/moral compass/reason to fight - that's all stuff that ought to have been attributed to his mother. but they decided to give the parental flash back to Iron Man instead of Captain America in the third Captain America movie, so they had to turn Peggy into all the things Sarah ought to have been to Steve instead, because straight dudes like the Russos and Markus & Mcfeely - the sort that reduce women to Mothers and Sex Objects - view those two Womanly Roles™ as interchangeable and I'm on the verge of an angry feminist rant now so I'll stop
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Steve antis: we only hate on Steve because we love Steve, we just don't like his ending!!
also Steve antis: I wish Bucky would stab Steve to death 🤪
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just thinking about a dark st*ggy fic where firing a gun at him was just the beginning
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honestly this probably sounds mean but idc one of The most braindead things this fandom came up with (probably aside from shoving darcy lewis everywhere with no rhyme or reason to have a white woman self insert into whatever gay relationship the author finds hottest) is steve/bucky/peggy like. im glad the days when ppl thought polyamory was just a magical solution to everything and made everything better are over but im still scarred by this bs
sdkjfkjs assuming this is the same person you keep sending asks that start out that way and i think i'm about to be attacked lmaooo
ANYWAY i found darcy entertaining in the thor movies and all but yeah it was??? so weird the way she was everywhere on ao3 like steve/darcy fics and bucky/darcy fics and whoever else and it was like.....they've never interacted with this woman which hey fair it's not like a requirement to like the concept of a ship but i mean i get that more when we're talking about ships between women since marvel never lets them interact like y'all we have plenty of ship options with actual substance with two men or a man and woman lmao like. there's no need to make up ships there. and it seems weird to me that marvel even brought her back for wandavision but i guess they kind of do that a lot to be like "oh look this character! they don't really fit here but here they are anyway!" (not that i can say for certain that's how it played out since i did not watch the show)
and YEAH i mean again i have read and enjoyed some steve/bucky/peggy fics but that was mostly before endgame or before my anger about endgame made that kind of content mostly intolerable to me and i do like some threelationships but i am so at a point where i rarely multiship even and even if i do i still have my preferred ship for that character so i'd rather just read that like even a few years ago when i did still like s/teggy i wasn't ever really reading it unless it was also a stucky fic like i didn't wanna read it on its own bc i didn't wanna read things where stucky weren't together. and now since endgame i REALLY refuse to read things where they're not lmao but yeah as i said before, i just do not see peggy and bucky being together along with steve because they obviously did not like each other! like maaaaaybe they would be okay with sharing for steve's sake but even that is a stretch imo
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Juat out of curiously, what is wrong with both steggy and buckysteve?
* prompts / anon .
eh , it isn't really the ships themselves — to each their own. it is more the stans. both st.eggy and st.ucky stans tend to be hella disrespectful regarding st.aron and its fans. our tags (even the special ones we've made to combat the issue) are filled with hate day in and day out. i personally don't see the hype about st.eggy. i used to be a fan , and i get the appeal but it is basic world wind romance stuff that you know wouldn't actually workout once life calms down; and mcu shoved it down our throats every chance they got that it really felt forced in the end after both characters got development about moving on. i do ship st.ucky (mcu version only tho) but once again most st.ucky stans hate on any female character — no matter how comic canon it is — that comes near both male characters. these stans always have "fetishizing m/m but masking it under the facade of representation" vibes. and don't get me wrong i love me some lgbtq+ representation and if mcu had the balls i probs would have loved it. but i have met more st.ucky stans that love steve and bucky's m/f other canon/crack relationships than i have st.eggy stans.
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Sooo...Marvel is perfectly okay with making Steggy canon, despite barely having any chemistry and only having known each other for a short while in TFA, and also perfectly okay with breaking up PeggySousa despite them having a shit ton of chemistry and having been through a lot together?? Okay.
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i rmr sometime in the last couple years someone saying steve doesn’t deserve peggy and i was annoyed but more than that i realized it is in fact the reverse and she doesn’t deserve steve
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This was, without an absolute doubt, a reawakening of some sort in my life.
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How can anyone believe after everything Peggy says and does throughout the MCU, that she was willfully taking chances and going gray morally? How can we assume she knew about Bucky, about Zola, about Isaiah, and about Hydra, and just let it all happen? Furthermore, how can we know that *if* she knew, that she agreed with these actions, and didn’t risk her job trying to go against them?
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Steve when he decided to go back in time and erase Peggy’s kids from existence
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After Endgame, even Steve and Peggy in TFA just makes me mad and annoyed because there was no build-up whatsoever or any kind of serious romantic storyline developed between them in that movie, nothing to suggest it was a tragic love story or that they were soulmates or anything of the sort. At most, it was a crush and a mutual interest that never went anywhere, Peggy kissed Steve first and he only promised her her dance because he knew he was going to die and he wanted her to not be sad as he was dying. And he was being polite. He liked her, but that was all. Nothing says he loved her, never mind that he held onto that love for 70 years.
For fuck’s sake, Marvel.
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Ok maybe y’all are putting the cart before the horse a bit here: the point is that (even if, for argument sake, Steve was Peggy’s husband all along), Steve would not have known that when he chose to go back to her. All he knew (that we saw) was that Peggy had a husband and children and a life she loved. So did he just say “fuck that guy, fuck them kids, it’s my turn”?
I would add that the Avengers’ explicit understanding of time travel is not the closed loop theory that would allow Steve to have been Peggy’s husband all along, it’s very clearly the branching timeline time travel logic and I don’t think anything in the movie supports that both logics coexist here. So even if they do, Steve should not have believed that they would.
And if Steve was not the husband all along, and we accept that he created a new timeline, did he know that he was creating a new timeline when he did that, and how confident was he of the consequences of doing so? My impression from the films is that creating branch timelines is exactly what they were trying to avoid by returning the stones and mjolnir etc. Obviously some changes (removing an infinity stone) create more dangerous situations for that branched reality than others. But it’s impossible to know exactly what will change under the butterfly effect. I consider it rather irresponsible to spawn new timelines for selfish reasons, with a limited understanding of the consequences of doing so. Whether or not the TVA in fact has an issue with it after all is said and done has nothing to do with my judgment of Steve’s choice to do it based on Steve’s knowledge at the time he made the choice.
I do think there is some element of selfishness to be considered in the idea that he disregarded any risk there might have been in doing what he did, and the fact that he took that risk to others for himself and himself alone. It does require a certain amount of arrogance to rewrite Peggy’s future for her. It categorically does not matter that the Peggy in his original timeline still got to experience that life. The fact is that the Peggy he spent his life with never will experience those things, and he made that decision for her. I don’t mean to take away the dignity of Peggy’s choice to accept him in the past rather than turn him away for a future she couldn’t see, but just to present that choice requires a type of confidence that leaves me breathless.
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So the timekeepers were okay with Steve ruining Peggy and Daniel's life and the timeline by going back in time, but Loki messes with it unintentionally and they're like 'how dare you'.
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Dude, I don’t know how to tell you this but . . .
Stucky is also a white romance
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I think the thing about NEC, that is was written at a time, where it was almost called misogynistic to say that Steve and Peggy weren't in love and they didn't have a relationship. I remember seeing that this fic got a lot of flak for even *suggesting* that Peggy was morally darker than Steve, or that as a spy she would have been grey Looking back after Endgame, they didn't make her dark as she should have, & it's hard to see how Steve & Peggy would work ( especially after Zola)
(hope you don't mind me posting)
YEAH that's very true, i think the misogyny argument gets thrown around a lot when there's an m/f relationship like that and a more popular m/m ship, like.....sure, some of those shippers are gonna say misogynistic things directed at that character and that m/f relationship but. sometimes there are valid criticisms, as i well know now.
that is very funny, especially considering it was published after catws, where the whole thing of how shield brought in zola was revealed like.......there's your proof right there that peggy does not have the same morals as steve! which, as i've said before, i hadn't given much thought, because a lot of post catws fanfic in particular (which i read A LOT of upon joining fandom) really framed it like hydra infiltrated peggy's organization and how horrible it is, but not.....how she was responsible for it happening to begin with. so as i had my own blindness re: peggy and steve/peggy, i DO see how other people did and continue to have that blindness, but. it is frustrating after endgame how much people refuse to even consider that the criticisms of that movie and of steve/peggy are coming from a place of just looking at canon and what their relationship really was, and what it would really mean for their characters and storylines to end up together in that Particular Way, not just bitterness about stucky (though hey! i am bitter! and right to be so!)
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not to be a bitch or sth but looking back with a sober more developed eye at steve and peggys love (or rather lack thereof) and how shitty everything abt them together was i do feel a perverse sense of justice over how much i always disliked nec like. the people who act like its not a steggy fic and like the way it depicts them with all that enduring love at first sight nonsense isnt bullshit need to stop lying to themselves i said it
SDKFSKJ this ask made me laugh sm, there's nothing better than being validated in something you hate
usually i wouldn't feel comfortable publishing an ask talking shit about a fic (unless it was like one of those 1d fics that wrote harry as a stalker and acted like it was romantic lmao they deserve it) but anyway i figure it's So Known that it's just kind of unavoidable to have some amount of criticism of the story
anyway i haven't read it in years but i DID like s/teggy at the time and i think even then there were bits of it that were a little....off to me? even before i really had any of the criticisms of peggy or the ship that i do now. it's honestly hard reading a lot of stucky fic now just because most stories that even slightly delve into catfa will talk about steve being in love with peggy and i'm just kind of like......no......that didn't happen, it was not Love, not even close. i will maintain that a lot of nec was beautifully written, even if some of the plot wasn't. i feel like? i don't even remember much of the stucky bits like after steve finds out he's alive? i just remember the marriage to peggy and the letters lmao. so like? did they even do much with steve and bucky having a relationship because.....i really don't remember it, it's been so long. i had every intention of rereading it and i just never felt like committing to it since it's long and then endgame happened and i just don't know if i could sit through it again. maybe if i'd read it sooner after endgame, when s/teggy had been ruined for me, yes, but i didn't despise it the way i do now like i've just gotten more mad since endgame, not less, so.......yeah, idk.
regardless, it's definitely one of those cases where it's a fandom classic and so many people think it's the best fic ever written, and like i said, i DID like it, but i've read so many more fics i love way more than that, and i'm just kind of like, are y'all reading these? you should be reading these! i mean, really and truly, it's the ONLY fic in the stucky fandom i see get that much hype and that part i really don't get, because i've read so many beautiful post catws fics and AUs, some that don't seem to be well known at all, like! pay attention!
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Today might be a sensitive day but I don't know. Finding nasty qrts on a twitter post about my werewolf steggy fic has hit me hard.
I want to legit cry for some reason and irrational brain tells me to delete everything.
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the fact that we're supposed to see Steve opening his compass while looking at a map or flying a plane and think 'oh wow he wants to think about peggy rn'
yes, that's why he's opening his NAVIGATION EQUIPMENT
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"I will always love you "
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