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#and this is how i feel about so many fan theories and ships and weird fixations
pianokantzart · 8 months
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I always get a bad taste in my mouth whenever I see comics of ppl not only depicting Mario being a bad or inconsiderate supportive brother (though I mainly see that last one when it comes to ppl shipping Bowuigi) but that Luigi is unhappy being around his brother, is jealous of Mario, and worse wanting to abandon Mario. And I honestly dislike that theory/trope I see in certain fan comics. It makes me uncomfortable.
It’s why I love the movie so so much cuz it leaves no room for that. The movie point blank shows us that not to be the case. They support one another, Mario is literally always there for Luigi, protecting him and is there for him. He went through so much just to be reunited with his brother. And his reaction alone when they were reunited is enough to show how much Mario loves Luigi. Meanwhile there is not a ounce of jealousy, envy or a hint that Luigi is unhappy being with and around Mario, if anything he’s the one that’s the most supportive of his brothers dreams and aspirations cuz he also has the same dreams and aspirations himself.
He’s not jealous of Mario, he’s his brothers biggest fan and vice versa with Mario. They love and support each and I find that so beautiful and just a breathe of air considering that there were sooo many people saying that Mario was an awful brother and that Luigi was unhappy being around him. Because why would we want that? They are called the Mario Bros for a reason, why would we want them to hate and be inconsiderate and be unhappy around the other?
Sure they may have disagreements but I feel that even those wouldn’t be that serious and if they were they would be about the others safety/something they would talk about and that would develop in a fight. They love the other too much to ever actually fight and be verbally angry at each other.
If there was ever a point that they actually did have a real fight rather than a simple disagreement, then– like you said– it would stem from a life or death situation: Mario being worried for his brother... Luigi wanting to support and protect his sibling despite the danger... and a fear of losing one another. But even then I have trouble seeing an argument between them getting too serious. At the end of the day, Mario and Luigi seem to mutually understand that they are strongest when they are together. The writers of The Mario Movie really saw all the weird Matt Patt theories and "Luigi is jealous" speculation, and said "Not only are Mario and Luigi not at odds with one another, but they are each other's greatest source of peace and happiness."
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"We're going to make the first scene with them chock full of physical and verbal affection. We're going to hammer home just how much protecting his brother means to Mario, and how much Luigi supports his sibling to hell and back. We're going to make Mario's biggest point of upset come from being accused of bringing his brother down. We're going to make Luigi's greatest impulse amidst the fear and pain of an interrogation to hype his brother up. We're going to establish that Mario and Luigi have never been willingly parted for longer than a day. We're going to make the driving force of the story how much they want to be reunited. We're going to make 'nothing can hurt us as long as we're together' their motto. We're going to make their brotherhood the heart of this film" and by God it is glorious!
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luulapants · 1 year
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Goncharov (1973) is a perfect example of how fandom creates a shell around a piece of media and then slowly erodes the core it was originally built upon.
I have been in two fandoms that echo chambered their way to a theory invalidating all of canon, thereby making the source material itself irrelevant. One is the “Scott is an unreliable narrator” theory from the Teen Wolf fandom, which uses an odd POV choice from the series finale (the protagonist telling the story of their final battle to a character in a flash-forward) as evidence that the entire SHOW is actually him telling a heavily edited version of the story to make himself look like the hero. The other is the “Ghostfacers Effect” from the Supernatural fandom which also uses a weird POV episode (told through camera footage from a ghost hunting crew) to argue that, because the characters swear (bleeped out) in that episode but nowhere else in the series, this is evidence that the whole series is censored and edited by the author/God Chuck.
Both fandoms had animosity between fans and show creators, especially from queer shipping bases. Both have a huge amount of fanworks for those ships, and both experienced the “fandom echochamber” effect. Reinforced by positive responses from those seeking fluffy, kinky, self-insert, or otherwise wish-fulfilling stories, popular fanon characterizations slowly drifted until many fanworks featured characters virtually unrecognizable as their canon counterpart.
These drifts are addressed differently throughout fandom: Most people look at it and say, “No, that’s not canon, but it’s fun to read sometimes anyway,” or “This is just my headcanon.” Fanfic readers who never watched the source material are oblivious and perpetuate fanon characterizations as canon. Canon lovers decry the OOC-ness and complain that they can’t find fics about the actual characters they want to read about.
And some start arguing that fanon is actually more correct than canon.
Thus, the erosion of canon begins. “These episodes don’t count because the head writer was garbage.” “They made the character act like that to advance the plot - they wouldn’t have actually done that.” “Everything after this season is basically a different show.” “This happened off-screen but the network was too cowardly to show us.” And, finally, “Canon isn’t real.”
There is no canon. It’s a fanon shell wrapped around a desiccated center.
It’s Goncharov (1973).
Why do we need a source material? Canon isn’t real!
No shit canon isn’t real. It’s a fictional show.
You can’t argue the objective reality of a fictional story.
“But what’s the truth?”
None of it. None of it is the truth. It’s about werewolves. It’s about a gay angel. It’s not real.
You can argue objective reality in real-life historical accounts, analyzing sources and biases and excluded viewpoints. In a fictional story with an unreliable narrator, you can argue about what the text of the narration reveals about them. But there is no argument to be had about the objective reality of a fictional character. They are the text. Everything else is interpretation.
Why can’t your interpretation be what it is: an interpretation? Why can’t your headcanon be a headcanon? Why do you feel the need to saw the ladder off from underneath you? Why does fanon need to be more “true” than canon? Why would you rather have a fandom built on nothing than a fandom built on a text that disagrees with it?
Goncharov (1973) is the perfect canon because it will never disagree with fanon. It has no voice to do so. It is the perfect void that people have been trying to carve into their respective canons for years.
As Andrey said before his final betrayal, “You once told me you built your empire from nothing. You can’t get something from nothing, Goncharov. And so I fear we are nothing.”
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sethcertified · 1 year
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「 SLASHERS REACTIONS TO THEIR FANDOMS ! 」 . . . 📂
slashers : various
wrd count : 1.2k
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⊹˚.⋆ synopsis . . . how slashers would react to their fandoms
⊹˚.⋆ starring . . . patrick bateman, bo sinclair, vincent sinclair, billy loomis, stu macher, brahms heelshire, & billy lenz
⤷ patrick bateman
okay this is going to be fun
his (already huge) ego gets boosted sm by the like "sigma" edits and shit of him
not to be cliche but the “I bet paul allen doesn't ___” sort of comments make him feel so high and mighty
and seeing how many people find him hot? god he would become even more insufferable
BUT HERES THE FUN PART
he delves more into the patrick bateman edits and stuff and that's when he finds the satirical shipping, cutesy edits, etc
he sees himself and the word "babygirl" put together and has a full blown meltdown
god it’d be so funny cause it's literally 50/50 in the fandom so he couldn't separate one from another if he even tried
AND THE SHIPS
oh, he would just be gagging at the louis x himself ships
idk I feel like he would go "take this down now 🤬”
he's so edgy 12 year old boy yk
AND THE EDITS
patrick practically passing out when he seems himself edits with anime blush and cat ears
his masculinity was already bruised by the ships and now this?
he 100% posts some of the edits about him on his socials
he also sends the links to these vids to people he dislikes to prove his "fame"
the fame goes to his head but he gets humbled when he sees everyone calling him "my pathetic malewife bbg 💕”
⤷ vincent sinclair
I just love vincent sm and so does his fandom
I have not once met someone who hates vincent
he is so insecure and humble and just deserves to see everyone complimenting him and his wax figures
he loves his fandom to say the least
and they absolutely adore him
definitely gets confused by some of the compliments he gets
example a: "If he doesn't want me to slut him out, why waist so slutty?"
^^ yes I did find that on here
is in disbelief ppl can find him attractive let alone say things sexual about him
he has rlly rlly low self esteem okay
if he ever tried to interact with his fandom online I have two different directions in my head
IS AWFUL ON THE PHONE
typos and everything
but it's so sweet
"THank yu 🙂"
he has big fingers and struggles to type ^^ or if he gets adjusted it's perfect grammar "I appreciate you for this. Thank you so much."
hes just a big ol boy getting the praise he deserves
⤷ bo sinclair
this one is a bit tricky
he isn't too phased by the compliments unlike his brother
he knows he hot
so "daddy" "so hot" compliments r not new to him
BUT I think stuff like | want to see him whimper" will make him feel VERY FLUSTERED
like awkward coughing and hiding his face flustered
but he doesn't get a bigger boost in his ego
I feel like it doesn't go to his head cause he is already pretty confident in his looks yk
but seeing people appreciate him for his personality?
like talking about how charming and husband material he is
it definitely gives him more hope that he's worth more than his looks & that he means something
this one is short but he wouldn't interact with the fandom
or he’ll barely scrap the surface so he doesn’t see the weird stuff…
like he seems so Facebook dad to me
basically he is tolerates his fandoms cs he’s only seen the tip of the iceberg
⤷ billy loomis
ANOTHER TRICKY ONE
billy is so tricky for me tho
honestly it goes to his head
seeing ppl in awe about him ^^
he's a slasher fan too so he is more active in other fandoms if that makes sense
but he does like to delve into theories and discussions about ghostface and the scream franchise with members of his fandom
rlly enjoys knowing he is considered one of the "well known" slashers
honestly he feels threatened by danny johnson from DBD because when u search ghostface a lot of content surrounding him pops up a long with stu and billy
billy wants everyone to know he’s the ghostface
he loves the fame basically
I do get the feeling he hates the image ghostface has tho
like the "thirst traps"
he's just the type of guy who calls people "posers" and "fake fans"
so that rily irritates him
if you know a lot about slashers/ghost face he's chill
he likes his fandom but there's definitely outliers with the people who know ghostface but not who's behind the mask
he wants the notoriety
⤷ stu macher
LOVES HIS FANDOM
he loves being worshipped by his fandom
all compliments, all fanart, all of it he loves
teases Billy sometimes about the posts
sends scream memes to his friends
feels guilty tho when he sees posts about his and Tatum's relationship
like that's the only downside for him
he responds to fans, tells "insider" stuff, etc
Stu is very active in his fandom
he thrives off of it essentially
definitely set up a cameo or something at one point and says his iconic lines from the movie
+ try's to get fan service out of Billy
hes like an obnoxious youtuber
REPOSTS EVERYTHING
edits? yes
fanart? yes
fanfic..?
yes.
he's not rlly sad either that billy gets more attention than him cs if you love stu you LOVE stu
calls his fandom "machiacs"
cause macher + maniac
but he does think he's more famous than he actually is
like if someone doesn't recognize him he'll go "I'm THE stu macher"
fanservice king!!!
⤷ billy lenz
no shame at all
he will repost smut/hentai of him
loves his fandom cause they're as equally as horny as he is
but I think he does see that he is desirable in more ways when he finds like fluff imagines
loves his fanart the most
he would try and redraw the fanarts but they turn out horribly
he 100% try's to interact with his fandom
key word is try
he doesn't type but does the voice to text thing
so all his replies and post end up
JEJSNSBSHSISJJSNS *insert heavy breathing* HSHDNDJSJSK
his poor phone can't keep up :(
he doesn't understand the fandom but he loves them
"billy boy my beloved ❤️”
^^ those are his favorite types of fandom interactions
⤷ brahms heelshire
refuses to have internet
straight up refuses
but I feel like he's the only one who would dislike his fandom
and i mean actively dislike
if he saw how many people call him "stinky wall boy"
let's just say he would have a fit
only thing he would like is people saying he's better than other male characters
but literally that's it
hates everyone and everything about his fandom
he thinks of them as lowly or without class
its just best if he never finds out about his fandom
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✎ notes . . . yes, this is a repost. tumblr deleted my old acc >:( ◯  🖖🏻  ⭒  ⧆
©️ sethcertified 2023
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lov3mayfly · 5 months
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Note: maybe some opinions that might be controversal in the Trigun fandom. Idk... big maybe? I don't mean to upset or go after anyone for their fan works and headcanons. I am just expressing my own opinions and preferences with this stuff (said stuff being shipping). Shipping fandom please don't come for my head. These are just my insignificant new Trigun fan opinions.
Also, a little warning as I am gonna discuss a little about Plancest and Trigun Stampede episode 11. (If that last warning is still needed at this point... idk.)
So, I have been in the Trigun brainrot fase and fandom for a couple of months now, and I think it's one of the most chill fandoms I have ever been in. And I have been enjoying a lot of metas, theories, fanart and fanfic, and any other fan content in between.
But... I am having a little bit of a problem... tho this problem might just be because of my own personal perferences, but I still feel it's a little over the top, generally speaking. Plus, it's something that exist in basically every other fandom. And what I am refering to is:
The over emphasis and oversaturation of romantic relationships in fandom, despite all the Trigun source material not really focusing that much on any ships in the story, existing just with some hints here and there with Vashmeryl and Millywood.
I mean, and I said it before, I think that compared to recent media and fandoms I have been invested in, Trigun came as big breath of fresh air. I even call it my new love and peace (lol). And I am really enjoying my time in this fandom.
But... I have a problem with how much the characters are shipped and oversexualized by the fandom. And everytime I look for fanfics there are very few fics that don't involve sex or romance (give me that good platonic stuff more, please). Plus, doesn't help that I love the headcanon that Vash might be asexual... and there is so little content about that but thousands of other content where having sex with his lover/s is something he is desperate for because "no one else treated him right that way for 150 years" or something. Like, obviously, nothing wrong with having this type of desires, but, idk, it just feels too much at times when done online in a fandom space of an action space western story...
Also doesn't help that everytime I look for fanfics that explore or are about Vash's plant alien weirdness, most of the stuff on those tags is sexual.... why??? Just why?? Doesn't matter if the exploration of his powers is supposed to be angsty or comedic, most of them have to involve sexy times for some reason.
Like, I get it that Vash and the other main characters in Trigun are attractive, but like, please chill a little with the sex. I want some plant weirdness without it turning into kinky stuff.
And another problem: plancest...
Look, I want to make it clear that I am not antiship. I just have a preference for platonic relationships and if it's romance I prefer things that are more soft and not the main focus of the story, because most of the stories I am following, like Trigun, are more about finding your place, feeling accepted and loved in many ways (which ya includes romance, but not as the only one/main one), about exploring morality, the Human condition and survival in a unsustainable and dangerous environment, and exploring fantasy and sci-fi concepts and settings. I am here for all of this stuff. If I really wanted romance and smut I would look for material that revolved around that (lol).
(please note that I am not necessarely saying that shipping these characters and enjoying these ships is wrong, I just think it's over the top how much people drown in shipping in a fandom of a series that doesn't have romance as a main theme in any way... like, I just don't get it... romance and smut stories exist on the mainstream and done by indie creators too, so??? What are some of you people doing here?
I mean, currently, the Trigun fandom is not a bad example of this (yet... hopefully never... at least in my experience and directed at me in shipping discourse, but unfortunatly this type of discourse exists in every fandom and I am still pretty new in this one, so...).
And yes, I like Vashmeryl, Vashwood, Millywood, Millymeryl and heck even Polygun makes sense to me (tho I like Vashmeryl and Millywood more), and these are ships that are cute and I can see working because all the characters involved have great chemistry with each other, as they already have great relationships in canon. But again, the relationships that most of these characters have in actual canon seem to be platonic rather than being romantic. And if these relationships have hints of romance, they are just that, hints, or something that is left in the background and have a special moment and then the story is moving on to more important stuff, such as the fist bump kiss between Meryl and Vash in Trigun Maximum.)
Now, with that out of the way, let's return to Plantcest. And I am like, why?? Just why?? Like okay I get it, it's because Knives is obsessed with Vash and Nightow himself said in an interview that "Knives is in love with Vash". But here is the thing... or ratter things: first, the translation of Nightrow's answer might be wrong or "oversimplified"; second, someone can be "deeply in love"/obsessed with someone, like Knives is with Vash, in a platonic way too, and also it's pretty common for antagonists to be obsessed with the protagonists in stories, like you are not gonna tell me that Eggman is in love romantically with Sonic (like please no...); third, throughout the story of Trigun, Knives never did anything romantic or sexual (i guess), imo, because him being obsessed with Vash and their plant sisters seems to be more in the way of "I need to save my kind more than anything and I am the one that knows best how to do so", so he decides to take the agency of his brother and/or sisters (that already don't have any of that to begin with) away, yay. Like, in all versions of the Trigun story what Knives does to his siblings and how he uses them is so fucked up, but in no way, shape or form is it motivated by romantic love and/or sexual desires... so why??? I would ratter even say that Knives is more motivated by his childhood trauma and hatred for Humanity than he is by the love he has for his siblings.
Plus, he has a god complex. He literally believes that the Independent Plants, aka him and Vash, are Gods or fallen angels or something. So, he trully believes that every action he takes in the name of liberating his kind is fueled by this idea that he and his siblings (or at least him and Vash) are perfect powerful beings drowning in a sea of vermins (the Humans) that used, abused and destroyed the Plant kind, even tho, ironically, Knives is doing the same to achieve his goals. So, of course he is obsessed with his brother, just not in the romantic and/or sexy way, okay?? Knives is more obsessed with the idea of Vash being the perfect Independent alongside him and with the power that Vash possesses and how it can be useful to him and his goals. Like, I thought this was obvious...
It's just... why??
It's like people cannot look at a very close or obsessive or complex relationship between characters without immediately jumping to romance or to one character having weird over the top carnal desires about the other character.
They are brothers! Yes, Knives is fucked up and did some questionable stuff to his siblings but that doesn't translate to romantic and/or sexual feelings/obsession, okay???
Just... I am sorry, but in no way, shape or form do I understand shipping siblings together. And I have seen this in the DC fandom with the Bat siblings, in Trigun with Vash and Knives and, worse, in Gravity Falls with Mabel and Dipper. And as someone with a sibling I am just... WTF?? Like... why?? JUST WHY???!! It feels like that weird thing where some people see siblings being close emotionally and physically (stuff like giving each other hugs and cheek kisses) and not having so much banter and immediately assume that something incestuous is going on (also, I blame some disturbing animes for this one...). Also, stop invalidating sibling relationships, like seriously some people love to do this a lot, especially with adopted siblings with the "oh, but they are adopted, they don't share blood so it's fine"... no, sorry, it's not. Otherwise they wouldn't be called adopted SIBLINGS in the first place!!!
Also, I know that the pregnant Plants scene in Trigun Stampede episode 11 kinda took a lot a people with the Plancest train. But I just don't see it that way... like yes, the symbolism of birth and female parts are all there but it's nothing like we Humans do it... like, sorry if I am "sounding" stupid by writing this, but let me explain my interpretation. So, the Plants all consider themselves siblings, because whenever they refer to each other, or at least when Vash and Knives do, they always talk about "my brother and our sisters", plus considering the designs of the original plants from the manga I think a more "reasonable" way to explain how plants are born is by one of their body parts detaching itself from the main plant and then growing into an Independent. Like, I am not saying this is true, even Nightow himself said he is not sure how Plants are born. But, if they were to reproduce like us, why do they all consider themselves siblings? And would this mean that Humans would somehow artificially inseminate them? Or are they all clones started from the first Plant found by Humans? Idk, but the "Vash is now a father/mother" or any other variation of that sounds weird to me considering plants and their familial relationships with each other don't work the same as ours. - so, I guess, this is my own headcanon to how new Plants come to be, which I think it also makes sense considering they are called PLANTS and plants irl can reproduce asexually exactly like this, a part of them is either cut away or falls and with the right conditions it can grow into a new plant (I mean, this might mean nothing considering that plants also reproduce sexually through pollination - but again it's still very different... plus idk how Nightow thought, or if he even did, about this in any detail... but again, last I saw he said he wasn’t sure about that and, obviously, the Humans in Trigun don't know either, because if they did they wouldn't be fighting each other over the Plants they have on No Man's Land, lol). And Knives needing Vash's gate to access the High Dimension could just be seen as him just getting those plants the energy they need to use their body parts to create new Independent Plants or be reborn as Independent Plants. Plus, it's also implied that Plants were somehow created by Humans or at least experimented on which would also explain why Independent Plants are so different from the Dependent ones and look so Human and are capable to withstand the harsh environment, just like the Humans, lol).
(Okay, sorry, I ended up theorizing in a post complaining about shipping, lol. - but ya, the point is that I don't think there is anything romantic and/or sexual going on in this scene. It's just that Knives is doing everything in his power to do what he believes to be right for his siblings and it just happened to include taking away his brother's autonomy and impregnating his sisters. Plus, the use of female body parts and pregnancy in this scene might be just symbolism for rebirth, so there is no sexual act actually happening between the Plants - it's them getting reborn into Independents. And even if Knives actually was in love romantically with his brother and wanted to have baby Independents with him or something - wording it like this because this seems to be the impression that most people get whenever they hear of this scene without context (and actually even people with the context - like some people just saw the female parts and pregnant Plants and their brain immediatly went "there is no heterossexual and non-incestuous explanation for that") wouldn't it make more sense to bring Vash to a bedroom or something to do the thing. Okay, sorry, that was a bad attempt at a joke, but you get the point, even if we can say that Knives has romantic feelings for Vash they are fucked up in many ways especially considering that he only sees Vash as a "good Independent" without everything else that makes his brother be Vash, as he sees his ideals and choices as nothing more than Vash being brainwashed by the Humans, especially Rem and her ideals. All the while, Knives says this while changing his brother's memories for his own goals, without actually caring about what his brother wants, hypocrisy at it's finest. So ya, considering all of this, I just don't understand why this ship exists... maybe that's just me and my interpretation...)
Plus, putting on and looking with romantic glasses at these relationships also takes away from the complexities that some of them have. And this is especially obvious with Vashwood that often get reduced to the Sunshine Goofball that always gets hurt/sick because he is a reckless idiot that neglects himself (Vash) and the Grumpy Protective Caretaker (Wolfwood). Nevermid Vash having almost 150 years of experience in dealing with fights and getting hurt and healing mostly on his own and the equality and trust that exists between these 2, and the fact that Vash as a Plant is way more resistant than Humans, even ones that are enhanced like Wolfwood. Like, don't get me wrong, there are some amazing fanfics with this ship that do these characters and their dynamic and tragedy just right and I understand the appeal of whump fics with characters that are usually strong, but I am also starting to see some "woobifying" trends with these 2... so ya. And also reducing them to sex obsessed weirdos sometimes, when they feel like characters that never had the time to sit and think/dream about stuff like this with how messed up their lives are. Or worse, they put Vash in the feminine role and make him a damsel in distress for Wolfwood just because he is the softer one, and completely forget about his other characteristics... (and no, this is not about the Trans Vash headcanon, that one is fine. I'm really talking about the classic gay shipping where the nice and more sensitive guy is made the feminine one and his masculine attributes are completely thrown out of the window, like how people do with Izuku Midoriya in MHA when he is shipped with Bakugo or Todoroki).
And I even made a little comparison between older fics and newer fics on AO3. And what I have noticed is that, while yes there are fics with Vashwood and Plancest and smut from years back, the Plancest and smut wasn’t as prominent as it is today. I mean ya, this was easier to see because the fandom is still pretty small compared to other fandoms I have been in or seen, and it has recently exploded in popularity because of Trigun Stampede. But the amount of fics I get on AO3 the moment I filter out the stuff I don't want it's very small compared to the number of fics with smut and with those 2 ships.
Also, this fandom drowns in too many Vashwood fics. Like, I don't mind the ship, I understand it's appeal and I even fell for it even if it took a while. But, like I mentioned before it is not my fave ship or something, as I perfer the other 2 I mentioned before, Vashmeryl and Millywood. Like, it's even reached a point where even if the ship being written is Mashwood or Polygun most fanfics still end up putting more importance on the connection between Vash and Wolfwood than the connections the girls have with them or between each other in the relationship. Just why? Like, I get that the boys have a more complicated relationship which makes them more appealing, but shouldn't all involved in the poly relationship get the same attention and love? At that point it would have made more sense to make it just a Vashwood fic than a Polygun one, lol.
So, uh. Don't take this the wrong way. I am not here to ruin anyone's fun with shipping, as these are just my opinions and they don't really matter that much, as they, obviously, just matter to me and my enjoyment of the series and fandom. This is just my silly rant about ships and my personal beef with how oversexualized everything seems to be and how often romantic relationships are put on a pedestal while platonic ones seem to be thrown in the dust once the main romantic pairing is in the picture, either being it in canon or fanon. (Tho, this is not really Trigun's case in canon, as this is happening just in fanon.)
I just don't understand why nowadays most of the people in most fandoms seem to look at almost every interaction between characters as being romantic and/or sexual. Like, are platonic relationships that boring to people nowadays?? Do some people not understand platonic relationships between characters or something? What is going on?? I mean, I understand that romance and sexuality are part of being Human and that some people feel like the best way to express them (or have as a only way to do so) through fiction, but maybe it's not all that there is or some things related to these just shouldn't be shared in fandom so much. Again, it's not anything wrong, it's just done to a degree that feels so excessive. (and this is without getting into shipping real people, like celebrities... that is so disturbing... I don't get how people that do this don't understand (or seem not to) that those are REAL PEOPLE!! It's just so wrong...)
Also, despite my opinions, I'm emphasizing that I'm not antiship, despite having my dislike/hate/irk reaction with certain things (like incest or shipping adults with minors), and that people shouldn't be harassed because of shipping. Because if the ship is something I don't like, I usually block the tag and move on. Plus, commenting/calling out people that ship something problematic usually doesn't do anything much but cause more discourse and most shippers of problematic ships ain't gonna change their minds that easily or at all. So, there is that...
So, uh, thanks for reading my shipping rant if you did so.
(Shipping fandom please don't kill me)
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ghostoffuturespast · 3 months
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hey ghostie i was gna get specific for the ask game but I wanna know *all* of it now, the acronyms, the full names, all of em! are they for cyberpunk or other fandoms? no matter how much there is to know, i wanna know! talking about an idea helps a lot, i speak from experience! thanks for the mention, ill get on the wip game soon, too! ❤️
WIP Game Here
Thank you for the ask! I appreciate it :) They are all Cyberpunk 2077 things lol. I’ve largely been a lurker in other fandoms until this one, and this is the first one that finally compelled me to make stuff and that I’ve had the bravery to share. Don’t have many snippets at the moment, all of what I have so far is already out there. Since you asked for all of them though, I shall dish and give you a bit of a peak behind the curtain on how all this got started…
(I’m sorry, this got very rambly.)
And def tag me when you do yours! I will come find you and your wips! 🧡
SIG - So It Goes
(The title is based off the radio song from the game that you can listen to on Morro Rock. Never officially released and credited to the fictional band Fingers and the Outlaws in the game. Officially sung by Ryan Kattner, the front singer of the band Man Man.)
SIG is my current V/River conspiracy theory long fic that I’m working on, and the project is coming up on its two year anniversary. It’s also my first fic. I’m hoping to wrap it up this spring so I can move on to other creative endeavors. There are a lot of art projects, fandom and non-fandom related, that I’ve held off on because of this and I miss those hobbies. I also feel like I’ve been missing out a lot in the writing corner of the fandom too because a lot of new writers have popped up on the scene since I started (back when there was still a monopoly on the tag, but that’s a different story) and everyone else seems to be having fun reading everyone else’s fics, except me… Reading’s complicated for me right now. Writing this had a lot of ups and downs, but overall I’ve loved telling this story, learned a lot, and I’m really proud of it!
I think most people get into fic writing for the ships, the romance, the smut, the processing of internalized trauma, a more satisfactory ending, weird niche interests… And don’t get me wrong there’s a lot of appeal with all that, and definitely those aspects in my own work. But this whole thing got started because of conspiracy theories. I fucking love mysteries and puzzles, so after playing the sun ending and then I spotting Mr. Blue Eyes on the balcony during the conclusion of Dream On, I just about lost my damn mind. I went down the rabbit hole, spent hours reading shards and messages in the game, combed reddit theory posts, and started picking up on all the hints and foreshadowing of something larger looming throughout the game.
I initially didn’t have any answers when I made the decision to start this fic (fuck, high probability I still don’t), it was largely me brainstorming and trying to figure out what kind of story I wanted to write. Seeing if I could even piece things together. But in the process of thinking all that through, I came up with this little theory. I thought it was pretty mind blowing at the time (still think it is) but it’s been my little secret since I got here and I’m very anxious to finally share it.
Most people probably would have just written a theory post and been done with it, but I decided to turn mine into a fan fic lol. Which may or not have been a mistake, we’ll see. This is either gonna be game changing or everyone is going to think it’s dumb and I’m gonna be wearing a dunce cap for the next fifty years.
River Ward. The other half of my reason for writing this fic. I actually wasn’t sure if I liked him at first, it took me a while to warm up to him. But the more I got to know him, the more I started to like him. The more he grew on me. He got hotter over time. Plus, I’ve got a fondness for detective characters and unusual coats, so I should’ve seen it coming.
River’s gotten a lot of flak from this fandom. People claim he’s boring. He’s a cop, so acab. Being unemployed and living in a trailer park with your sister, niece, and nephews isn’t a particularly redeeming quality. I don’t agree with most of those statements, but I do agree with the folks who do appreciate his character, that in terms of development, he absolutely got shafted in the game. This fic is also an attempt to rectify that.
For as underdeveloped as his story arc was, there’s a lot of nuance to his character that I think gets glossed over by the game and most people. We didn’t get much, but out of what we did get, it’s been interesting trying to piece a story together that’s in line with what we got. And I did mention earlier that I like puzzles.
I’ve noticed that a lot of folks tend to lean very hard into the cop aspect of his character, but as far as I’m concerned, River Ward doesn’t give a shit about the law. Conducting an off the record investigation, intimidating a confidential informant, illegally obtaining evidence, breaking into a restricted lab, committing arson for your ex so she can pass a medical exam, conducting another investigation after being suspended; those are not the actions of a man who holds the letter of the law above all else. Those are the actions of man who is determined to get to the bottom of things, and protect people, all while navigating a system that is anything but equitable or fair. They are the actions of a man who is willing to go above and beyond for the people he cares about, even to his own detriment. His own safety. For River Ward, it was never about the law, it’s about justice. And pursuing that sometimes involves breaking the rules.
River is also Pomo. Which is something that was only added in subsequent patches, heavily glossed over in the game, and is only disclosed if you choose to actually romance him. But he’s Indigenous. Native American. And yet he still made a conscious decision to join the NCPD. Given the historical participation by law enforcement and government institutions in North America, and around the world, in the cultural erasure and mass genocide of entire nations, tribes, and communities of people. And given the current state of issues regarding law and judicial enforcement on tribal lands, I think River's character is a rather poignant reflection. Of wanting to good, of wanting the world to be better, but being confined in systems that simply won't allow that. There's a billion other little details I could ramble on about, but his character had the capacity to walk a very fine line of complexities which the game never really did justice to.
Diversity and representation in media are important to me, and I want this fic to reflect that. Being bi-racial, I didn’t get very much of it growing up, so if I can provide representation, even in some small capacity, I think it’s better than nothing. And while I don’t know if I’m achieving that, well, shit if I’m not trying.
I wouldn’t say this story was really meant to be original, but rather to fill in the gaps on the story we got and for me to practice writing. Practice telling a story. CP2077 is a violent game set in a violent world. And I somehow managed to start writing a story that accidentally ended up being a love letter to aikido. (Much to my chagrin. It’s everywhere. In everything. I cannot escape it.) Aikido is a martial art that translates “to the way of peace” or “the path of harmony.” Yet again, another study in dichotomies. How can a martial art, an art form designed to inflict violence, be peaceful? Aikido is as much of a martial art as it is a philosophy. We train to practice and learn that philosophy.
One of the major themes I’m exploring in this fic series is the nature of violence. What it is, the forms it takes, how cyclical it is, that it is a relationship - violence requires your participation. So the question ends up being: how do you break cycles of violence when you live in a world where you are beholden to it? V and River are very much two characters that are caught up in cycles of violence. Will they find peace? I don’t know, but maybe they can find out together.
From The Top
(This one isn’t named after a song. I just decided to start from the beginning.)
From The Top is the VP project I started up last spring where I’ve been taking storyboard style photos of all the main missions. Plus whatever else I feel like. I take all of my photos on PS5 in vanilla photomode and randomly started snapping pictures just because. I did landscape photos, shared a few. Got a bit of nice feedback from people who cared to look and then started branching out. I eventually got to the point where I started a new playthrough for the sole purpose of snapping photos.
Taking VP is very different from writing for me. I don’t have to think about. I don’t agonize about making sure every tiny detail is just right, because for the most part I don’t have very much control It’s candid, intuitive, experimental, it’s straight up play. I simply wait for opportunities to present themselves and capture whatever I think looks or feels interesting to me. It’s easy for me to walk away from it if it doesn’t do well when I post. Unlike my writing, there’s no ego attached to it.
I’m getting to the tail end of this project, I still have a couple of the base game missions to get through, but I’d also like to do Phantom Liberty as well. Not sure what my VP career is going to look like after this, might go into soft retirement. But that’s okay.
NR - Night Running
(Named after Night Running by Cage the Elephant)
Is a sleeper wip that’s currently in the notes, brainstorming, and kitchen drawer phase. It’s part 2 of my Nothing Comes Before Night City series. So It Goes is part 1.
It takes a long time for me to mull over and ruminate on ideas, so this document is largely just a repository for notes and thoughts. Jamming the utensils in the drawer until I’m ready to organize them. I have a very broad idea of what I’d like to happen in this fic, key moments I’d like to hit, but there’s still a lot of refinement that needs to happen, and stories this involved require me outlining. I do already have a running set list of songs to draw from though.
Les Preludes
(Named after Les Preludes by Franz Liszt)
Another sleeper wip, also in the brainstorming phase. These are meant to be one-shots or short stories from the Nothing Comes Before Night City series. Moments I mentioned in the series, but can’t fit into the larger story. Character studies and background lore from V, River, Johnny, Jackie, a couple of OCs and whatever else I can think of.
I will probably start casually working on these after I finish SIG and while I’m outlining NR. I’d like the series to go in chronological order. Should be fun. And I think it’ll be good practice for being more concise. Unlike, this response...
If you stuck around for this TedTalk and made it all the way to the end, thank you! 👻
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lightfeltmemories · 4 months
Text
hxh theory: is feitan a p3d0phile?
tw's: mentions of l0l1c0n, paraphilia, p3d0philia, sadism and torture because its fucking feitan, cp (debatable if you consider l0l1c0n cp), mentions of problematic hxh ships such as feitan x kalluto and hisoka x gon
just a note: before you come at me with your pitchforks leaving hate in my asks and dms, i am not a fan of l0l1c0n nor am i trying to defend it, this post is a simple theory i have gathered by evidence in the manga, no one is saying that you should believe this theory, it's more of a "do with this information what you will" kind of thing.
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so, you may be reading this title and you're thinking "what the actual fuck?" and you probably believe that i pulled this straight out of the deepest parts of my ass, but what if i told you i had some plausible evidence for this theory?
so, for starters, this thought actually came to me when i was reading a post by a user on here named @/cautionworks (i'm not going to tag them here because i don't know them nor do i want to seem like a bother) who made a post relating to their favorite ships (warning as the post does contain problematic ships such as hisogon and such, not saying in particular im against the ship, im just giving out a warning to anyone who is triggered by minor x adult ships) and there was a ship listed as feitan x kalluto.
in the passage it mentions that they found out that feitan may be into l0l1, which at first thought was a bit strange but once you think about it more, the concept isn't the most absurd for someone like him.
i haven't seen anyone actually talk about feitan possibly being into l0l1c0n, much less being a p3do, probably because of the anti's in the fandom.
so, lets get on with the actual evidence!
in the yorknew city arc, after he was done torturing the owl, he is seen reading a book by an author named trevor brown, and as stated on his hunterpedia page, trevor is a controversial artist who's work involves paraphilia; atypical sexual urges.
according to trevor's wikipedia page, "His work explores paraphilias, such as lolicon, ero guro, BDSM, and other fetish themes. Innocence, violence, misogyny, and Japanese popular culture all collide in Brown's art."
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there is also a reddit post relating to this topic as well, and according to said post the topic was popular on tik tok at a certain period in time (not very important but i thought it was kind of interesting since im a tik tok user and content creator kind of)
so, does this make feitan a p3d0phile? i can see why people would think so, and i can also see why people wouldn't.
why i would is simple; trevor brown's art speaks for itself, the usage of fictional little girls in... lets just say, VERY interesting situations would make one assume off rip that feitan may be a p3d0phile, or at least a l0l1con, not to mention, togashi isn't afraid of making a character like this especially since we have hisoka (not saying hisoka is a p3d0, but many do, and im just trying to prove a point and give an example as to why the concept of feitan being a p3d0 isn't something completely out of the ordinary, hxh does get pretty dark after all).
why i wouldn't: i've seen some arguments that feitan may not hold the same views as trevor despite him doing some questionable things, similar to how people may like a certain character or even person in real life but not agree with everything they say or do, not to mention he doesn't seem to act weird or overly charming with kids like hisoka, he certainly isn't afraid to hurt or torture one (gon) but theres no actual implications outside of him reading this book by a controversial artist that he is sexually attracted to them.
but in my personal opinion, unless specified by togashi himself, or given any more details about how he feels about such things i wouldn't go as far as to call feitan a p3d0 just because he's seen reading a book by someone known to create l0l1 art, hell, he might be reading a book that doesn't include anything relating to p3d0philia, since the cover art isn't explicitly shown.
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onesunofagun · 4 months
Text
You know, I'm going to put a thought down because I'm thinking about this again because of the post earlier.
It might be a vent? I think it's more just me trying to describe a feeling so it's outside me and I can look at it.
I've seen a lotta discourse and a lot of theories and different takes out there. There's always gonna be some stuff that's frustrating because it's something Sus being widely normalised, but generally speaking, I think the varied perspective and ideas are always good thing in a fandom.
I've seen all sorts of ideas be explored-- in fics, in doujins and art, in roleplay, in lore essays-- over the years. I like to think I have a pretty good map on the fandoms I've been online and present in since the early 00s. I can usually remember context about how certain stuff came about, like what tropes or ideas got popular when and how, whether through shipping or fanon or mangas or general knowledge about the development process.
When you've been in a fandom a long time-- especially if you have made a lot of contributions to it, at any point-- sometimes you even have a part in shaping certain idea flows within it, yourself.
So I have had the chance to see and contribute to a lot of conversations that have happened over and over and over again, in a kind of generational way. I have seen certain discussions from old forums, translate to fics. I've seen them pop up on tumblr, then tumble to Reddit, then YouTube. I have watched the spread through the general sphere of things, get added to and turned over and re-examined.
For the record: I love watching that process, and I like being part of that process! Mentally tracking the grandfathered in fandom history has also become its own kinda hobby for me.
I've always found it interesting mapping where new fans come in, seeing how they orient themselves and what they pick up-- how and why and what they do with it, whether I appreciate it or not (I highlight biases that are related to harmful ideas when I see them to illuminate them).
Seeing certain concepts be repeatedly rediscovered and watching how certain waves of fans digest them is fascinating. Sometimes with surprising results, sometimes with disappointing results, but it's fascinating either way. That's kind of part of the appeal having been here so long and why I came back into (mild) activity-- I get to study and dissect the fandom behaviours as well.
But despite all of that, I've found I don't really appreciate a good number of the popular YouTubers who focus on Zelda as their channel topic.
I think I've developed a bit of a distaste for a few of them in particular, actually--the big number Zeldatuber channels. Mostly the ones that seem to be the theorycrafters that kinda followed on from a MatPat style format. All of my love to well researched videos analysing the themes and meta, and all the silly boundary breaks and speedruns, mind. But I found I got really disillusioned with the handful of channels that rose to prominence and how their content shifted with that growth.
With the potential to monetise their discussions and discords worth of people and patrons driving this kinda content, I do think a lot about things that have been discussed in the fandom in the past that get taken up and regurgitated as part of that grind. I have lost track of how many videos that have come out of a few big Zeldatubers of this vein gave me a really weird slimy feeling and I am trying to work out what it is.
I'm not super invested in watching much of Zeldatube at large, mostly because I've seen most popular subjects covered in many variations. I'm a lot more personally interested in analysis, rather than theorycraft, so take it with a grain of salt that I may have a bias too (The popular Zonai fixation really doesn't interest me at all, and Zeldatube burnt out on that hard).
A lot of the channels like this seem to present their stuff like it is brand new and never been seen before, and like it's a great achievement in sleuthing or that they've cracked a code-- but not in a fun feeling way. Not in an exciting personal discovery way, but in a way that feels like it's propping up an exclusivity around that channel, and its validity as a leading authority on Zeldadom. There's something vaguely newsfeed-like, or sensationalist about it to me, with tight knit associations to other big channels making the same type of content (and about the same types of subjects as far as I ever noticed, and widely overlapping perspectives).
I wonder if that's a cynical feeling that I have where I'm just being an old man yelling at clouds, but there's really something that rubs me wrong about the handful of top channels like this. Something about the way they generate and present, and potentially profit from, often long running fandom concepts and otherwise freely shared ideas that have had many contributions feels off.
Maybe it's also me struggling to understand the closed off nature of how a lot of people just absorb the series secondhand now, and how normal it is to have the most popular Zeldatube channels setting the tones and assumptions around lore for large swatches of the newer fans. And not because old guard gatekeeping, but because there's an obvious chasm there between new and old fans of the same media that now exists that's seemingly getting wider.
I do sometimes worry about the trend of recycled old fanon staples presented as brand new takes, because of that-- or worse, sold as the definitive take, especially when a lot of people do just accept them and then go off and start arguments because 'big Zeldatube said so' and they must know best.
Sometimes I wonder if the trend is actually adding to issues with consumption vs engagement, in terms of media literacy and fandom interaction. There's certainly some theories, because of these channels, widely taken as a kind of gospel from the 'zelda experts' like the discussion is already closed; mystery solved. I've legit seen smaller youtubers be accused of stealing or copying theories from the larger channels, when making detailed and well researched videos about canon lore. I have had multiple interactions with fans who just link to a popular video and be like 'here watch this, it'll explain it' like they can't even be bothered to have their own take, but they're also not interested in yours.
The way big Zeldatube presents itself and gets consumed at large, though, I guess I just don't recognise that as the same as seeing a new fan have a joyful discovery of something from their own interactions with the franchise and fandom. I realise that the channel runners are fans themselves, but I suppose I mean that the platform feels more like a degree of professional separation that's very closed. It's become 'Zelda is my job now' thing that's focused on interest trends and news.
Something something, decades of fandom interaction and discussion and archiving getting scraped and haphazardly slapped together again for the content grind because clout and profit??
That feels mean to say but--
"Like and subscribe and join my patreon for more content, often mined from various thoughts around the fandom to make up a new video to schedule" is how it often tastes to me and that's not a flavour I enjoy.
Again, by all means, not applicable to the whole of Zeldatube or many fans who do watch the big channels. But this kinda thing does feel like a pervasive and popular part of the theorycrafter channels. Commodification of theory, and exploitative platforms built off a community's back, leave a lot of the big Zeldatubers without my support or endearment. I feel incredibly conflicted about them.
Is that anything?
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esther-dot · 6 months
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I'm the 2011/2013 Tumblr anon, and this is kind of embarrassing to admit but I'm also the original Dune anon, if that gives you any idea of my fandom background. (*/ω\*) I've been in fandom since I was probably eleven or twelve, so fandom is basically home to me lol. I was always more of a sci-fi fan than a fantasy fan growing up, and so it wasn't until GOT I heard of the books; I'd never been a fan of the show, and I was impartial at best to the books. (At school, I knew classmates were reading them--- but for full context, I was a nerd disliked by other nerds for being too weird, so I wanted nothing to do with Tolkien/GRRM lol). I still have a bone to pick with GRRM (and this is partly what limits my participation) and in the case of my regular fandom, I'm very much used to isolation lol. (It's alt-right trolls who have a problem with me... sigh. Imagine a ship like Jonsa which redeems the books' thematic ideas and that's my situation).
I actually was familiar with the Sansa/Sandor ship long before I was interested in either media, because of the shipping circles I run in. Going from that lack of context to the context revealed in the actual books was very weird, because they seem like extremely disparate concepts. If you take Sansa/Sandor scenes and rearrange things, including the numbers in Sansa's age, it does feel like a powerfully violent BatB rendering with a dash of medieval pseudorealism; he's no prince and the romance is impossible, but perhaps he could be her knight or guardian in an unconsummated chaste romance or secret affair etc. It made me really rethink some of the ships I was interested in, and why, and where my tastes diverged from people I usually trusted. I am much less interested in ship archetypes by themselves than how those are enshrined in the narrative/themes at stake. It's also just interesting to me that Jonsa is an arguably truer, redeeming rendering of BatB, or a revisitation of that theme--- which GRRM is interested in, Sansa/Sandor fans are correct about that, but I think it's foreshadowing a future arc for her. Surely all the BatB exploration is being set up for something big?
So how did I find Jonsa.... well, it was a consequence of reading the books lol, though I imagine many people would say the show was illuminating (which is no condemnation that antis think it is). My interest in the books was primarily piqued through the show's ending--- I came to things rather late, but I'm thankful for that, considering that it seems like some of the best fandom discourse has taken place since then. I was mostly interested in it for the purposes of comparison of adaptation, which I find very interesting, and because I find predicting endgames in general very fun albeit painful. I watch a lot of things just to see what my instinctual feeling is because I like practising my narrative divination. I like engaging with storytelling! But I do have a mechanical fascination with it as well. I think this motivated my sending an ask about Dune to both you and transdimensional-void, mostly because the thing that often leads me in the right direction is getting a 'feeling' for the tone of something--- sometimes even beyond pure narrative reasoning. Lol
You'd ordinarily think the show would be offputting to a Jonsa theory (and this is a major spanner in the works, although I do kind of only semi-ironically believe they paired Jon with D/aenerys because E/milia Clarke is shorter than Kit H/arrington, where S/ophie is too tall, which they couldn't have predicted before being informed about a potential Jonsa resolution--- when in doubt, assume stupidity) but Jonsa is also deliciously ironic and tragic even if redeemed through an actual marriage (and we have so many weddings, over and over, that a symbolic redemption of Rhaegar/Lyanna's wound is basically being begged for--- Lyanna is realised in many ways in the story, through both Arya and Sansa... but it makes sense they'd redeem two sides to Lyanna, the wild wolfgirl and the girl married to a dragon. The wound inflicted through Rhaegar's absconding with Lyanna has to be redeemed, whether that is positively or shirking the possibility of a Lyanna/Rhaegar union altogether, so the door is open for tragic Jonsa in my eyes. These types of narrative questions are what I look out for when predicting narrative resolutions and is what led to me to seriously consider Jonsa). I was meditating on this recently because people were asking whether Cat and Ned would approve, and the marriage is only possible because they're dead. A Jon/Sansa arrangement is only possible because they have lost the people they loved most, and perhaps--- like I've seen suggested!--- it might even drive Arya away. As a writer, that, to me, is how you make Ned and Catelyn's deaths in the story echo in a bittersweet way. It's good storytelling. It goes beyond 'and we re-enact the lessons of parents' which is the normal way you'd realise parental remembrance and legacy. And something tells me GRRM isn't interested in predictability. Unless you've read Gothic literature.
So, beyond Jonsa I'm very interested in the reasoning underpinning the show's derivations, and in my case I'm much more interested in Jonsa in the books than the show (that wasn't really what did it), though in the case of the show, I'm interested in where you can potentially see reflections of a book dynamic. But so much of the adaptation is muddied that it's hard to parse, and I'm really not sure how much of GRRM's suggestions they truly had versus what they stuck to. If they knew they needed 'a Jon romance', in the same way as they needed Robb to break his wedding pact with the Freys, but supplemented Talisa, what was motivating their decisionmaking? D/aenerys was the selling star of the show and basically the face of it, and the face of the merchandise and the cultural conversation etc. (which is why they made her death punishing--- the storytelling is so spiteful, and normally I'm a villain apologist through and through, but this case was particularly egregious) and it would seem silly not to give her a romance, because how can you write important female characters without romance? Now, I'm a perennial romance apologist, but the thinking here, to me, seems rather suspicious. So, I think what's special about ASOIAF right now is we've got a theoretical ending through the show, but where does that translate to the books? And where does the fandom get it wrong, and where do they get it right? The historic ubiquity of Sansa/Sandor, and many other fandom trends (e.g. D/aenerys is the rightful ruler, or tragic heroine, and so on) is kind of like honey to me, because all of those theories were completely blown out of the water by the show, but critically--- critically--- there's still room for expansion in the book for other directions. I was put off by simplistic interpretations of the books that floated around and when I read them the fandom characterisation, crossplatform, was actually shocking to me.
Since you asked--- and I'm terribly sorry--- I have a lot of feelings about when TWOW may or may not come out, not just because of anticipation, but because GRRM's authorial struggle is hard to watch through the eyes of fandom. The condemnation of his procrastination, his apparent carelessness--- that he 'took the money and ran'--- the hopelessness--- it's very hard to watch, and what I wonder is how he feels as a writer. Releasing TWOW will lead him into the final endgame, and he'll have to say goodbye to his magnum opus. That is very hard, beyond the show sailing ahead, and beyond anything else. It also gets to me in a personal way (which no one else can help!) because I am a writer trying to finish a long work, and I'm literally at the equivalent point GRRM is, and--- although he's a celebrated published author, and I'm writing for the sole joy of it--- I think that there is probably something fundamentally similar there, which is that holy fuck it's hard. It doesn't matter how much you know what you need to do, doing it is hard, and writing itself is actually an extremely difficult task. And by writing that means formulating ideas, as well as actual finger to DOS machine.
Writing sometimes is kind of like trying to paint a person, except you've never seen a human being before.
But I think that if GRRM is really committed to his bittersweet romanticism, he can pull off a goodbye, lol. And as much as I quibble with his narrative ethos and sometimes he makes me tear my hair out, I want to see him complete his work, because I think every single author deserves that. And because I think that at a minimum, for something like ASOIAF, the legacy of its ending ought to be his final say. I can't speak to his actual psyche but I do fully believe if he can publish TWOW, he can do ADOS. My observation is that TWOW is structurally much more difficult than ADOS, and I think that's one of many reasons he's been dragging his heels, long before the show caught up. Once he gets to the victory lap of ADOS, he will probably have both a professionally and emotionally easier time in terms of having to finish it. TWOW merges the split threads of AFFC and ADWD, whereas ADOS will only have to follow through (touch wood) on the one book, where many perspectives and their storylines will have converged--- at some point, we may have Sansa, Jon, and Brienne all unified! Which resolves character goals as well as being more economic with POV distribution. This is the angle I find very interesting because I think the way he uses character chapters to establish context and meaning beyond pure character is actually genius and rarely done so well in genre fiction, and I'm completely envious of it. (This is also why Jon/Sansa makes so much sense).
This is a terribly long ask so please don't feel the need to respond line by line, lol. I think I got a little excited! Having a positive fandom interaction is so nice. It's really weird that fandom has become such a polarised place (I mean, we had ship wars, but people kept to themselves more), and you're lucky Jonsa is your first fandom--- well, outside of the anti-Jonsas--- because I think it's a lovely place.
This goes for any Jonsa reading it: thank you all for literally keeping me sane. 🥰🥰🥰🥰 If I may ask, Esther, I think you've said that you came to Jonsa through the show then the books--- what drew you to Tumblr fandom? I'm always interested in how people find fandom!
Dune, anon! I'll tag @transdimensional-void because your convo about it did make me finally watch Dune (although I still don't think I'll read the book, sorry!), but the film was gorgeous. I didn't realize the director was Villeneuve. He always has very interesting projects and arresting visuals. Arrival was such a surprising take on an alien movie and it has really stayed with me. I think he has exquisite pacing, too.
Well now I’m even more concerned about the attempted doxing! Horrifying. The internet can be a wonderful thing, but I swear, it brings out the absolute worst in people.
I totally get what you mean about S*nsan seemingly being a BatB thing, but I’ve suggested before that it’s more in line with one of the old monster movies or even King Kong which love to pair something terrifying with a beautiful woman or little girl. It doesn’t mean romance, it’s the juxtaposition of extremes, raw power being stopped by beauty, violence being calmed by gentleness. There’s that line at the end of King Kong, “It was beauty killed the beast.” IMO, the beast and beauty idea is certainly there for the Hound and Sansa, I just don't think it's Disney's Beauty and the Beast. It's a highly romanticized idea, but not a romance in the way we use the term now.
My parents are both huge readers, not really into novels. My dad liked The Hobbit and LOTR tho, and got really into doing dramatic readings of those at bedtime for us kids. I remember The Hobbit the best because he’d make up tunes for all the songs and sing them. They’re very nostalgic for me, that love extends to the LOTR movies, but made it impossible for me to sit through the Hobbit adaptation. Anyway, I read a few sci fi and fantasy books, but I never really got into it. My little sister on the other hand luuuuurrrvs fantasy and she was the one who got me to watch GoT (I’d heard of the books, hadn’t read them) together, but then we ended up living in different states and she decided that it should be our thing to avoid spoilers and only watch the show when we got together. So, we were always running behind from that point on, but we made it through s5 that way. Eventually we just didn’t have the time to do that, and she was so disgusted with s5 she was happy to drop it completely--never watched another episode. I was too invested to stop, so I watched s6-7 myself and was simply appalled by the characterization of Jon. It made me get online for GoT content for the first time. This was in 2018. I saw that Martin gave interviews saying the show’s ending would be his ending, so I a) sped read the books, b) started listening to some of his interviews, c) saw the term “Jonsa” for the first time in the comments of one.
It took nothing to get me onboard because Jon and Sansa were my favorites, I really loved their scenes together, I hated everything after they separated in s7, and I read a lot of 19th century lit as a teenager, so cousin marriage didn't even strike me as weird in the historical context. I can't remember which meta it was I read first, one of Fedon's or blindestspot's prediction of a Jonsa reunion and marriage from 2013, but I got on tumblr and was totally sucked into the fandom.
“I do kind of only semi-ironically believe they paired Jon with D/aenerys because E/milia Clarke is shorter than Kit H/arrington, where S/ophie is too tall”  — I’m screaming. D&D @ Kit: "Sorry buddy, if you didn’t want your character to fall in love with a mass murdering tyrant you should have kept growing." lmaooooo.
“Jonsa is also deliciously ironic and tragic even if redeemed through an actual marriage (and we have so many weddings, over and over, that a symbolic redemption of Rhaegar/Lyanna's wound is basically being begged for--- Lyanna is realised in many ways in the story, through both Arya and Sansa... but it makes sense they'd redeem two sides to Lyanna, the wild wolfgirl and the girl married to a dragon. The wound inflicted through Rhaegar's absconding with Lyanna has to be redeemed, whether that is positively or shirking the possibility of a Lyanna/Rhaegar union altogether, so the door is open for tragic Jonsa in my eyes.” --You put this so beautifully. I wish you'd get a side blog and post that in the Jonsa tag, I love it!
One of the major puzzles to me is how the fandom all know just how much the text talks to itself, it's notably self-referential, so the way they dismiss the idea of Rhaegar's son and a Stark girl romance...I have a really hard time believing they don't see the logic there, how it would bring things full circle. The way they treat S*nsan as "practically canon" while calling Jonsa a crack ship when we have that hanging over our heads is a little incomprehensible.
“I was meditating on this recently because people were asking whether Cat and Ned would approve, and the marriage is only possible because they're dead. A Jon/Sansa arrangement is only possible because they have lost the people they loved most, and perhaps--- like I've seen suggested!--- it might even drive Arya away.” --I agree with this too. I am very struck by how NedCat, some of the best people and one of the best relationships Martin offers, has this pain and tragedy written into their love. That's a big reason why I can't quite get on board with an easy resolution to Jonsa, because Martin is just drawn to conflict which is why his characters and story is so compelling, but also makes me think, there will be layers to Jonsa, some real pain there.
“And something tells me GRRM isn't interested in predictability. Unless you've read Gothic literature.” — I once posted a list of gothic lit tropes and he’s included all of them. But Gothic heavily influenced horror, and ASOIAF has horror elements, so that isn't totally surprising when you think about it. It still amuses me though!
It’s definitely a real struggle to see the sense behind D&D’s choices but when I was reading an interview looking for a specific quote, I did see that even in 2011 Martin was saying he knew the endgames, which is a) comforting for Sansa ending up safely in Winterfell purposes, b) reassuring for Dark Dany believers, c) hilarious when you think about how many people are still pissed about Arya and Bran’s fates. And Jon? Well, I’ve made my peace with a tragic ending (although I’ve mocked it a great deal too because I can't see how it works), but we all know they fucked him over the most in s7-8, so I could also see D&D trashing what his ending was meant to be in favor of catering to Targ fans. Apparently Emilia has recently reiterated her frustration that Jon “got away” with killing Dany, so like…imagine the rage if he’d killed Dany and then got a HEA in Winterfell. 
My feeling is that Martin told them Jon would kill Dany and they chose to do "the romance" (which imo, they didn't like because the way they wrote and filmed it and permitted Kit to act it just...sabotaged it in every way imaginable) to make it more palatable to her fans who ate it up. They actually are comforted that Jon "loved" Dany and after s8 dropped pics/gifs of him cradling her dead body into our tag bragging that he loved her. Like, D&D made really crappy choices, but I think it was about manhandling their audience while hitting Martin's plot points they knew the Targ fans would hate, not a result of them throwing out the endgames.
“ The condemnation of his procrastination, his apparent carelessness--- that he 'took the money and ran' --I’m not a Martin defender, I have real reservations with some of his choices, but I have family his age and do try to think of him as a person. I find a lot of how people speak of him...well, I have no issue with people being frustrated we don't have TWOW considering how long ago he said he'd finish it (like, back in 2016) and how often since then he's indicated getting close to the end only for it to then sound like he's quite a ways away. As long as people don't harass him, I don't think it's an issue to talk about this in fandom spaces. However, they often sound ignorant of what it takes to write something like ASOIAF, with all the levels he's trying to work on. Also, his writing style sounds like a total nightmare? The idea of tearing things up to fix them seems hopeless to me, and he’s talked about doing this repeatedly—it would be so hard to finish a chapter or several and then realize, nope, gotta rework all of it.
“because I am a writer trying to finish a long work, and I'm literally at the equivalent point GRRM is, and--- although he's a celebrated published author, and I'm writing for the sole joy of it--- I think that there is probably something fundamentally similar there, which is that holy fuck it's hard.” --Oh ho ho! Well, you know that’s gonna make me have all sorts of questions, so if you want to tell me about your work (genre, tome or series, influences, themes etc) I am all ears, but I also know some writers have to keep all that to themselves until they’re done so I won’t pry. Although, because of our exchanges, I would be interested in how you use romance in your own writing.
“writing itself is actually an extremely difficult task” // “Writing sometimes is kind of like trying to paint a person, except you've never seen a human being before.” —dead! I think the issue is, many people don’t distinguish between types of writing? So someone doesn’t distinguish between the goal and what say, a modern romance is attempting to accomplish versus a Jane Austen novel. They might end the evaluation at "like or didn't" and not grasp what all goes into different types of novels, their individual successes or failures, and why some novelists can complete multiple novels in a year, another might spend a few years on one. I think about this a lot when I see people suggest Martin get some ghost writers, and like, this man isn’t churning out genre fiction (which I love, I was a snob as a teen and cured myself, but it is an entirely different kind of writing!), so it's just...a lot of fans totally misjudge the effort required and how easily replicated the work would be.
“I think that at a minimum, for something like ASOIAF, the legacy of its ending ought to be his final say” --I find it incredibly sad every year that goes by and the chance of him completing his series dwindles. People forget that what holds sway over a culture doesn’t always have staying power and a) I think his work is doomed to being forever misinterpreted unless he finishes and b) I don’t think he’ll have accomplished what he wanted to regarding elevating fantasy / getting it the respect he believes it deserves unless he gets to that ending. It's a shame.
I enjoyed reading all your thoughts on Jonsa, the ideas it touches on and how GoT/ASOIAF might differ. Thank you!
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liauditore · 5 months
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hi i have returned opinions on secret life so far? (also any idea why bigb’s secret animation was different to everyone else’s?) :D
hi hi i have so many Thoughts that i will definitely miss Something but. lots of things. spoilers for ep1 under the cut obvs.
why is every ship getting crumbs. literally all of them. what is wrong with everyone wtf. (except treebark. treebark girlies stay losing)
new mechanic is insanely hype and i am going a little bit feral over it. i've been wanting a UHC-style season for a long time and this seems a great way to kind of. entertainment-fy it i suppose? cus as much as i wanted straight up UHC i can totally understand why players like joel or skizz or scar would struggle hard in that sort of ruleset and it wouldn't be very fun to watch as a result.
i'm a bit.. tentative about the more acknowledgment of the Lore this time around? On one hand i love it and i think it's incredibly cool but on the other hand i know well that lore can eat a series alive if let out of control. Especially when fans start getting pushy about their theories and disappointed when inevitably things aren't as explained or thoroughly confirmed or straight up forgotten. (<-- fnaf fan. i have seen it. it is horrible)
that being said i have trust in grian specifically to handle it well and not go off the deep end with it cus a good chunk of the viewers don't know/care for the lore and if it becomes a Big Thing then a lot of people are gonna end up feeling alienated and confused.
i LOVED Bigb's episode and i think it's like. the ideal way to incorporate lore into a series like this. the way you can Feel that something is off rather than it being explicitly shown. you can choose to write it off or dig deeper. it's good juice. I've mentioned this before but I'll say it again -- Bigb is easily one of the strongest roleplayers on the entire server and his editing REALLY sells it hard. He really melts into what's happening rather than getting up on a platform and shouting THIS PART IS IMPORTANT. LOOK AT ME. which i really appreciate as a kind-of honorary former theatre kid.
but yeah tl;dr i think lore/fan theories should be left to the fandom mainly otherwise it starts getting weird. that being said i trust the life series ppl and can't wait to see what's going on with this season.
now if i may be unhinged myself. i def agree with the theory that Something is up with Bigb's task and maybe whatever gave it to him is trying to mess with the game.
Bigb and Mumbo specifically I felt were acting.. a little OOC the whole episode? Bigb was very much on purpose i think and i reckon mumbo's just excited to be back lol but its fun to think about
the task system has a lot of potential for. fanfic symbolism fuel. i mentioned this on my spam blog i think but something something about the way the players' tasks almost seem to. mock them? a little bit?
like pearl's being to "earn" people's hearts after she failed to make any connections throughout double life and has been somewhat isolated the whole series. bdubs being known for his efficient and beautiful builds being told to make something ugly and useless. scott being implicitly called a parasite with his history of teaming and latching onto one specific person each season. etc. etc.
the teams this time around are looking interesting and i think it's worth noting how it almost feels like.. the opposite of limlife a bit? with how slow and cautious everyone has to play. it seems like over half the server haven't really even joined up with anyone yet which is intriguing. (im personally praying for a scar/jimmy team up. just cus scott said they wouldn't make it lol)
which is great for me cus i loved limlife but the chaoticness of everything did kind of. make deaths less impactful i think? if i see another sky bridge i might scream
im very. of two minds about the scott and impulse team up. because if you dig through my blog you'll see i have kind of a history of being unhinged about those two and their parallels. but i have the sneaking suspicion that their actual dynamic will be like nothing i had in mind lmao
overall i am very excited but trying to control my expectations
also um MUMBO AND LIZZIE ARE BACK AND GEM IS IN THE SERIES AND MUMBO AND LIZZIE AND THUBS ETHUBS ETHUBS ETHUBS ETHUBS--
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sg-s3c · 2 months
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I love how you write jade! Shes so hard on herself but still sweet and bubbly i love her!
aw thanks!!! :3 i like jade a lot and thought she would make an interesting point of comparison with john - i imagine with their childhood friends getting married and with post-retcon jade in particular having so many issues with loneliness they'd both feel kinda awkward and left out on earth c, but john's response to distress is to isolate himself from people who care and have dumb tantrums about seemingly unrelated things, while jade's is to do as much as she possibly can to tackle the issue head-on and try really hard to stay positive. so john's been having bitchy conversations with a weird evil guy and making conspiracy theories while jade's been working hard on maintaining existing friendships and trying not to let anything get to her (possibly trying a bit too hard not to let anything get to her and not being kind to herself :( )
sadly i think despite probably being able to relate in many ways their difference in stress responses would make them not horribly helpful to each other as emotional support… john can be a huge tool if pushed on anything and jade is not a fan of watching people fall into negativity and will push back on it, especially when she finds herself in scenarios where her own issues are being reflected back at her but dealt with poorly, like with john on the ship pre-retcon and with karkat and jadesprite in act 5. in the homestuck cinematic universe that exists in my maladaptive daydreams jade has coped with some of her earth c listlessness by putting a lot of her energy into helping others, so i think it was extra frustrating for her when john pushed her away since he was also putting a damper on her own preferred way to deal with her feelings
i also imagine her getting close with dirk since she's already close with dave and jake and everything about dirk screams that he's a guy who needs help, plus there's some interest overlap with engineering and robotics. idk if i'll be able to show that in my fanventure without making the pacing weird or introducing too much scope creep though… hmm
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akuma-tenshi · 3 months
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so this is a big, long rant about sexism in the idv community bc it's been on my mind lately and i need to put it out there. this is what i've observed after almost four years in the fandom and been stewing on for a long-ass time. if you don't feel like reading an essay on how annoyed some random enby on the internet is, then don't click the read more and just keep scrolling. don't interact with this post if all you're gonna do is get mad; i'm not here to piss anyone off, just make observations. and if this isn't your experience, good for you and please direct me to whatever circles you run in because i need to be there.
so, i've noticed that the idv fandom is extremely shit when it comes to how they treat female characters, and nobody really.. talks about it?? the only person i've ever seen actually discuss it used it as a way to drum up sympathy for ada. which, if you know me, you know really fucking pisses me off. because there are SO MANY OTHER EXAMPLES of sexism in this community, but no, clearly because we have sympathy for a male victim of abuse we're being sexist towards his abuser.
the thing is. there is so much to point to when you talk about how the fandom is sexist. it's very common to see female characters boiled down to just a couple traits. mary?? hot mommy step on me. michiko?? soft and gentle and demure (don't think i won't notice the weird shit about how that's a very common stereotype of asian women btw i see it). demi?? hot and drinks a lot. emma and lily are "uwu mentally ill babies". annie is soft. emily is either an irredeemable monster or a bitch, depending on who you're talking to. patricia is scary and mean. sangria's a girlboss, grace is soft and gentle, martha is spunky. and if you ask anyone their thoughts / ideas on these characters beyond those short descriptors you get nothing. i'm starting to fucking hate the word "girlboss" because it's all anyone says in response to like half these characters.
male characters are given alllllll the nuance in the world you can't talk to an aesop fan without them going into their endless headcanons / theories on why he's the way he is or how he's not actually that bad of a person or how cute he is or whatever. look at norton, or eli, or orpheus, or luca, or edgar, or joseph, or ithaqua, or any characters in that vein, and look at how the fandom treats them. look at the endless fanfictions and character studies and ships and x readers and headcanons. and then look at what female characters get. nowhere near that much.
i feel like margaretha and emily are the ones who suffer the most from this male-centric view by the fandom. they're characters who are inherently intricate, whose actions can't be explained away as entirely good or entirely bad. but that doesn't stop people from actively trying. they're going to act like margaretha wasn't being horrifically mistreated by her husband and just decided to burn down the circus for funsies or whatever. they're going to act like emily isn't trying so fucking hard to help emma and repent for what she's done. neither of them are meant to be read as black-and-white, but people will try because if they have to use more than two braincells on a female character they're going to implode.
meanwhile you get paragraph after paragraph about the intricacies of the argument between luca and alva. you get so many people analysing the relationship between norton and orpheus and how they're both kinda dicks but also both kinda have points. you get endless people defending joseph's actions bc his brother's dead and he's terrified of growing old / forgetting the people he loved / dying. you get so many fucking stories about how y'know, edgar's not that bad actually.
AND I'M NOT AGAINST ANALYSING THESE CHARACTERS!!! idv, especially in recent years, has been doing some great things with character writing. like, fuck 'em, they've got their issues, but they're still really good with some stuff and deserve credit. but don't act like it's not obvious how so many people have overlooked women (and poc, don't think i've noticed people ignoring the intricacies behind william and ganji as characters as well in favour of "himbo" and "bastard who cares", but i'm white so that's not exactly my place to talk) in favour of their favourite skinny whiteboy of the week.
they're that way with older-looking characters, too. if an idv guy has facial hair, you bet your ass he's also getting boiled down to his base traits. jose's an alcoholic, kevin is self-sacrificing and likes women, kurt is a little guy, kreacher is Awful, charles basically doesn't fucking exist anymore. but again not the focus of the talk atm.
it's just. so upsetting. esp. since most of my favourite idv characters are women but everyone i talk to about them is like "oh yeah demi's hot" or "aww annie's such a nervous little baby" or "god patricia's such a cool girlboss". and even when the shit they say is positive in a vacuum it still makes me so upset bc THAT'S NOT ALL THEY ARE!! demi is kind and loving and hardworking in the face of a world that only ever hurt her. annie's life has been an endless stream of pain and heartbreak and the only thing she really wants is freedom. patricia is literally cursed and is trying to find her place in the world.
also. i fucking hate ada but she falls victim to this too. as much as i despise the "you dislike her just bc you're sexist" thing and as horribly uncomfortable as she makes me, don't act like you haven't seen how her entire character is boiled down to how much she "loves" this man. don't act like you haven't seen how her entire character, all of her promise and potential, is forgotten in favour of that fucking trainwreck of a relationship. i bet half the fandom can't tell me anything about her other than her relationship with emil. emil suffers from this too, with his backstory and personality and life of abuse becoming an afterthought, but again, not what we're focusing on.
this is not an isolated thing or confined solely to the idv fandom. this happens in fandoms everywhere. but because idv is so close to my heart i feel like i really need to talk about it. there's so little content of female characters when there's fucking daily content of male ones. and don't get me wrong, i do like male characters. norton is literally one of my favourite fictional characters and i love talking about / analysing him. but i can guarantee a lot of people wouldn't be so interested in him if he was a woman.
sorry, just needed to get that off my chest. mandatory "this doesn't apply to everyone in the fandom" and "if this doesn't apply to you then i'm not fucking talking about you". we were so against the ashley wood collaboration bc of how much he sexualised michiko (and women in general) but like. do y'all really care that much?? bc i really don't think you do.
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cloud-somersault · 4 months
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This is in reference to your most recent post, but I honestly get so confused when people who watch LMK haven't read or at least done research on the source material(JTTW) because I feel like it dampens their experience of appreciating the characters. 
JTTW, which is what LMK is referenced from, is rich with tradition, meaning, and culture. Not understanding JTTW gives you a very one dimensional approach to all the characters but especially Wukong since he is currently one of the only original JTTW figures from the main cast. And in misunderstanding Wukong’s source material means that people really don’t understand shadowpeach like they should. 
Even if we were to only go from the context of the show, shadowpeach started out super toxic. LMAO! These guys were at each other’s throat constantly and were not amicable at all. The appeal is the fact that it is alluded to/shown that these two used to have a very close relationship but something happened to separate them. That’s where the intrigue begins, that’s what gets the gears turning in the viewer’s head. Something happened to make them this way and we want to know! In JTTW canon, Wukong did kill Macaque and it was actively against Buddha’s requests not to. Bro did not care, lol.  I think it is also important to realize that LMK and JTTW are still different BUT it’s honestly quite foolish, in my opinion, to completely disregard the book it is based on. And there’s nothing wrong with fans taking canon things from JTTW and applying it to LMK. Especially if it’s their own fanfiction or interpretation(like your fic). It has been a common theory that Wukong killed Macaque(pretty much since the show started), especially given a lot of the evidence we have been presented with. Disregarding one of the writer’s statements, it’s completely reasonable to make the connection between JTTW and LMK that Wukong did kill Macaque. Especially considering we are shown in the third season a flashback that they did have a violent brawl before his supposed death and subsequent resurrection. 
Shadowpeach IS inherently toxic, especially before there’s any character growth between them, and I personally feel like it’s okay to acknowledge that and embrace it. I understand people tend to gravitate away from any forms of toxicity because, yeah, it feels weird saying you like a ship of two people who hate each other. But that’s the fun thing about enemies to lovers! And shadowpeach has so much more depth to it because it can be interpreted in so many different ways. I wholeheartedly believe that their versatility and depth as a ship is largely the reason why they are one of the biggest ships in the fandom. And their depth comes from the fact that they are inherently flawed characters.  
This need to uphold Sun Wukong on a pedestal he does not deserve ultimately ruins the thing that makes them special. And that's how undeniably human he is. Someone wouldn’t know that just from watching LMK, especially since the show either glosses over the darker parts of JTTW or alters them entirely. Stripping Wukong specifically of the overflowing amount of wonderful source material he has completely dumbs down the beauty of his character. I think playing around with the idea that he did kill Macaque(in regards to LMK canon) doesn’t really change where they come from very much. Idk if anyone else has noticed, but the season 4 special is obviously still not the full picture. That little fight in the mountain is 100% not what makes them hate each other so much. That much animosity for an altercation like that?? It doesn’t make any sense. We still don’t have the full picture, and people are basing their attitude towards each in seasons 1-3 on insufficient evidence. 
Anyway, sorry lol. Seeing people not appreciate shadowpeach for the mess it is makes me so unbelievably disappointed and frustrated(especially if they know nothing about JTTW) and the internet is a great place to bounce off opinions. I promise this isn’t directed towards anyone in particular and it doesn’t come out of anger, I just think there is a common misunderstanding of shadowpeach’s complex foundation and I refuse to stand for it. /lh /nm
Okay, my weird rant is over, haha. I completely understand your irritation with comments like that, though, and I am so sorry you have to deal with them. 
Damn, I don't really have anything to add to this. I think you said it all. I can pack it up and go home LMFAO Can this be my new pinned post
Oh, I will say one thing. The fandom is def afraid or in denial that shadowpeach, in any iteration, is toxic. In order for it not to be, they'd have to be grossly out of character, and then guess what friends? That's not shadowpeach!
But a lot of people do that and are content with that. Which, okay, but stay off my porch LMFAO
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epickiya722 · 3 months
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Hi, Kiya....I want to say thanks for all your metas, they're amazing (especially about Yuuji). So, I entered JJK fandom cause a friend who also loves to write metas about various fandoms. But they're kinda dislike Gojo, Getou and Yuuji. Said "Yuuji did not deserve to be the mc", "Gojo is just a pretty face overpowered character with bad personality", "Getou is weak like a disney villain, look how he was easily defeated by high schooler", etc..
When I found your blog and other blogs who loved Yuuji, Gojo and Getou, I was so happy & grateful. (I LOVE Yuuji and I also ship SatoSugu & love them) ....For this thing me and my friend agree to disagree (that I love those characters whom they dislike).
In your previous ask, my friend also agree with that theory (Yuuji will die), but I wish very much that is not gonna happen.....I think it's weird that there are some people who can dislike those three characters, especially Yuuji (yes, that includes my friend).
P.s
Can I ask, have you found other characther that remind you of Yuuji from other fandom that you also love?
It is so funny to me that your friend dislikes the very characters that I very much adore. Especially, Yuji. Like, I know Gojo and Geto have haters for reasons, but Yuji is like that type of character that shocks me when I find out people dislike him. (Yeah, I like StSg, too!)
I'm just like "Yuji? You sure? You don't like him?"
Like, one of my least favorite things haters will say about him is that he shouldn't be the MC and then will bring up Yuta or even Gojo should be and I immediately know they aren't used to having MCs who don't start off all overpowered, or cocky, or don't have a sad, sad backstory and then speed runs their training or whatever.
I promise you I was writing a whole rant post yesterday about how people will say Yuta or Gojo should be the MC but told myself "No, Kiya, don't do it. Calm your ass down."
I adore Yuta, I really do. But it's some, not all, some of his fans that get on my nerves sometimes. I adore Gojo, I do! But some of his fans agitate me as much as his haters do.
If either of them was the MC of the main storyline, the story would be completely different. With Yuji, we get to get to be put in his shoes to understand the world of Jujutsu, curses and whatnot. We get to see a kid that starts off with a positive attitude but yet still had a sense of the world not being so nice. Yuji isn't naive, but he's not completely pessimistic either.
It's not like he's arrogant or a douchebag. And people complain about "whiny" type protagonists (as if that hasn't been a trope for years), but Yuji isn't even that! Yuji is probably one of the most normal protagonists to grace the anime world and he's not even normal!!
(Especially... if you know his family...)
Okay, I could go on, but I won't. I just... oooh, I just don't understand Yuji slander. I don't.
My boy did not swallow a CURSED FINGER THAT LOOKS LIKE THAT AND BELONGS TO THE KING OF FUCKING CURSES to be slandered.
And with Gojo and Geto having haters... ooh, boy.
With Gojo, I feel like a lot of people don't like him because he's "broken" and not the MC. Maybe they just would feel better if he was both broken and the MC. Like some of other beloved anime MCs that people will still stay "HE'S THE GOAT FOR REAL".
Also, probably because he has a lot of fans that find him attractive and some people fell "threatened" by that. I don't know.
And OMG with Geto! "He got beaten by a high schooler". That high schooler had an immense amount of cursed energy and Rika, the Queen of Curses, on his side. ALSO, PLOT! IT WAS GOING TO HAPPEN?! HELLO?! IT SETS UP THE DEAL WITH KENJAKU?!
I'm gonna be honest... Geto probably wasn't even killing that many people or whatever. At best, he was killing those crappy rich dude types and other horrible people. Has a disdain for non-shamans? Ain't denying it. Going every single day killing tons and tons of people? Doubt.
If he was that big of a problem... HOW DID HE GO TEN YEARS BEING A CURSED USER?!
And don't say "he was in hiding". No, no, no. As many resources the Jujutsu sorcerers had? They had pictures of him! They knew what he was doing and where the hell he was. They could have been dealt with him if they wanted.
Onwards!
I actually do have another character in mind that reminds me of Yuji! Funny enough I made two posts on how he reminds me of my other two faves. Reki Kyan and Izuku Midoriya!
I'll place the screenshots here!
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nikethestatue · 1 month
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If we elriels happened to be wrong no one can really said we were delusional. The 3X3 connection in the series, MC noticing elriel, the fact that they have a couple name death and the lovely fan and that BC just confirmed that elriels are not delusional that there is something between them. When antis call us dumb and delusional they are just reflecting fear because is canon they want each other noone can denied it. So if for some reason sarah doesn’t want to write elriel because of elain hate no elriel should feel dumb we read it right we got it right but is another thing if the author just decided to change the couple to please fans. Will i feel bad that they are not endgame of course but i will not feel dumb the canon is there telling us regardless of what happens we elriels didn’t read wrong. I have so many elriels feelings discouraged this week after reading HOFAS and it just no right when we are one of the few ship that actually base on canon
So here is what I've learned and, unfortunately, came to realise with SJM and this fandom:
everyone, every side, heavily over-indexes on theories.
Here is the biggest issues and the biggest problem with theorizing about anything that SJM writes--she is an emotional writer. The worst kind of an emotional writer, who uses her characters as vehicles for her own emotional releases. And when it comes to a writer that genuinely falls in love with her characters, that uses them as therapy, that has all these emotional entanglements with them, that hates them, that fantasizes about them--nothing could be theorized in good faith. Because when an emotional writer writes, common sense goes out the window.
We can think 'my god, she's been writing about this for 3 books now, surely this will come to some fruition!' but then, nothing happens, because an emotional writer writes according to their feels and not their plan.
I think since ACOTAR she's become more and more of that kind of writer. Considering her endless gushing over Rhys, her hour long interviews about how she lived through Nesta and how she wrote all of ACOSF as a weird self-help sex fanfic--all of it points to the fact that she allows her current state of mind guide her writing.
I think once she ended the trilogy, plus ACOFAS, she couldn't follow her own plan. A lot of the future books and storylines were set up in ACOFAS, but she veered off the path and started writing random stuff. It definitely shows. Her 3 last books were the longest and also the weakest of all her books.
So I agree with you--the theories ARE correct and the deductions that were made based on her writing ARE correct.
However, whether she is going to actually write what she intended on writing is a whole different question. And sadly, it makes all the theorizing, very wishy washy. It goes for everyone--Elriels, who have the strongest-positioned theories, Gwynriels, even Bryceriels. (Eluciens don't theorize because there is a bond and that's all they care about).
But yes, anything could happen, and nothing might happen. It's not because anyone was wrong, but mostly because SJM lives in her deep feelings.
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vomitgreensocks · 1 year
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WHY BYLER WILL BE ENDGAME AND MILEVEN WON'T! WOHOO!
(this is just an stranger things theory, no need to get mad)
Ok, ok, ok. I am actually so sure that byler will be endgame and mileven won't. I am 83% sure right now while i had moments where i was like "yeah sadly byler will never be endgame :(" or "i think mileven will be endgame.." and i actually never felt this sure!!!
If you don't know what or who byler and mileven are (some stranger things fans don't really know the ship names of ships and couples), let me explain. Byler is the ship name of Will Byers and Mike Wheeler (By+ler=byler. Their last names) and mileven is the ship name of Mike Wheeler and Eleven Hopper (Mi+leven=mileven. Their names). Now you should know if you didn't know yet!!!
This post will be pretty long so if you absolutely HATE reading long posts skip, but if you are losing hope in byler being endgame or if you already lost all your hopes keep reading!
I recommend for you guys to read this though because i think i actually have some good reasons!!!
(now let me start explaining why i think byler will be endgame and mileven won't be endgame at all)
Mileven looks like an healthy and happy couple in the show right? They are dating, they make out, they have "cute" and "romantic" scenes in the show, Mike had an whole monologue to El saying how he loves her like 9 times blah blah blah. This is actually how most mileven shippers see mileven! and even some byler shippers see mileven as a happy and healthy couple. I have actually met a few byler shippers saying byler won't be endgame and mileven will be.
You can say "they are so toxic! Have you seen their arguments!?" about mileven but that is actually not really an good comeback in an argument with an mileven shipper because they will say "every couple has bad arguments and issues" which is true! even in the show itself some of the healthy and happy couples have bad arguments + issues. Lumax had issues and arguments (Max broke up with him like 6 times) and they are still an healthy couple (i know they're not an couple anymore for now but it was obvious they still have romantic feelings for each other and that they will be an couple again in season 5).
Jopper also had some issues and they are still an healthy and happy couple but when i say i don't think mileven will be endgame i don't mean that i think this because of their arguments like alot of byler shippers, i think this because of so many other things. Even though they seem like an "happy" and "healthy" couple in the show, it was still hinted they actually aren't and that they won't be endgame. Mileven was actually described like it is an unhealthy ship or well, not endgame at all. Netflix described them like this, the official scripts of the show described them like this, Caleb described them like this, Stranger Writers described them like this and parallels actually also described them like this.
In the official scripts it actually describes mileven as awkward twice. It doesn't only describe them as awkward, it also says Mike and El are star-crossed lovers. If you don't know what star-crossed lovers are, star-crossed lovers means it's doomed to fail amd that they cannot be together for reasons. I probably didn't explain this in an good way but you get the point (i think?). And the script of the scene where Max is singing and dancing in her room after El broke up with Mike actually also says that El was blushing at Ralph Macchio and that she liked what she saw. This isn't too weird because it is pretty normal to have very small crushes on popular people like actors, singers ect but the part where it says "Mike? Mike who?" makes it a bit weird...
That is basically just saying El is already slowly moving on. If El actually loved Mike so much she wouldn't move on so fast after an break up with him. It wasn't even an whole day after their break up.
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(El blushing at another boy + the script saying "Mike? Mike who?")
(Credits to @kaypeace21 !)
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(Mileven being described as star-crossed lovers)
(Credits to @kaypeace21 !)
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(Mileven being described as awkward twice)
(Credits to @kaypeace21 !)
Sorry that i had to take the pictures @kaypeace21 made. I couldn't find the scripts myself sadly (i have no idea how to find scripts 😭).
Now let's talk about something Caleb said in an interview. Caleb was talking about lumax (Lucas and Max) and how much he loves them. Then he said he loves Lucas and Max's relationship because it is not like El and Mike's relationship. They're not in that "teenager relationship" and Lucas and Max's love is real. I'm sorry but that is literally saying Mike and El's love for each other isn't real? He said he loves Lucas and Max's relationship because it's not like Mike and El's relationship because IT'S REAL. No way mileven is endgame if even Caleb talks like that about mileven.
(Caleb saying Lumax isn't like mileven because it's real)
(Video is from my instagram account!)
Let's also not forget how netflix described them as an unhealthy ship and the mileven parallels like i already mentioned. An while ago (i am not sure if it was on YouTube or Instagram) an official netflix account (netflixca) posted an video making fun of mileven and in the video they said "well maybe some relationship problems can't be fixed" meaning the issues in mileven's relationship cannot be fixed. I know it was an joke hut still...
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(Netflixca saying mileven's relationship issues cannot be fixed)
(Credits to @urlocalbylershipper on tiktok!)
I'm really sorry but i tried finding the video but i couldn't and i needed a screenshot of this 🙁 Anyway, mileven's relationship issues not getting fixed sounds pretty unhealthy and not endgame to me...
And mileven has also been paralleld to unhealthy and not endgame ships/couples. Mileven has been paralleld to stancy (Steve and Nancy. An unhealthy couple that wasn't endgame). Mileven has been paralleld to Taren (Ted and Karen. An married couple that obviously isn't in love with each other). Mileven has been paralleld to Robin and Milton (Milton is an guy and Robin obviously doesn't like him in an romantic way because she is an lesbian). Mileven has been paralleld to Harry and Hermoine from Harry Potter (even though i don't watch Harry Potter i am pretty sure Harry and Hermoine weren't endgame). And mileven has probably been paralleld to more unhealthy ships/couples or not endgame ships/couples.
Meanwhile byler has been paralleld to healthy ships/couples and couples/ships that are obviously endgame. Byler has been paralleld to Lumax (Lucas and Max. An ship that had some issues but it kinda already got fixed and they're obviously endgame + an healthy couple). Byler has been paralleld to Jopper (Joyce and Hopper. Also an obvious endgame couple). Byler has been paralleld to Rickie (Robin and Vickie. An lgbtq+ ship that is obviously in love and endgame). Byler has been paralleld to Ron and Hermoine (even though i didn't watch all the Harry Potter movies like i already said i am pretty sure Ron and Hermoine were endgame) and byler has probably been paralleld to more healthy ships/couples and ships/couples that are obviously endgame.
I don't really wanna show all the parallels though, but you can easily do a quick search on Tumblr, Google, Tiktok or Instagram about those parallels if you really wanna see them so badly.
Now let's talk about Mike's sexualilty+him being in love with Will+him having internalized homophobia. "Mike is dating a girl, he can't be gay. If he was gay he would be dating Will!" seems like people who say those kind of things know nothing about gay people and they also never did their research. Stranger Things takes place in the 80s (1983-1988). S1 takes place in 1983, S2 takes place in 1984, S3 takes place in 1985, S4 takes place in 1986 and S5 will probably take place in 1988. So many gay men dated woman in the 80s and were very good at pretending to love the woman. Sometimes they dated a woman for years and you know why? because of homophobia. Many gay men dated woman to make people think their are straight or to "convince" themselves they are straight. Homophobia was super bad in the 80s or years before the 80s. People who were lgbtq+ actually got killed, beat up or burned alive. They also got called slurs like 24/7. It was very bad. 2022 Is still very homophobic but before it was much more homophobic.
Also please don't correct me, i kmow that gay men still date woman in 2022 because of homophobia and i know bisexual people, lesbian people, pansexual people, omnisexual people ect did this too, but since we are talking about Mike being queercoded right now and since i headcanon him as gay and not bisexual i am only talking about gay men. So my point is that Mike can still be gay while he is dating an girl! There is also an theory of Ted being super homophobic so Mike could have alot of internalized homophobia because of this but also because of the homophobia from bullies like Troy and James. I don't really wanna talk about the Ted being very homophobic theory right now, but just like with the parallels you can search it on Tumblr, Instagram, Tiktok ect.
I am not going to talk about every hint in this post, but just about the hints that are my favorite and in my opinion prove the most. Yes, Mike was queercoded. Doesn't matter if you think Mike is bisexual, pansexual, gay, omnisexual or straight, he stays queercoded. That will stay a fact. And how? let me explain you how.
First of all, alot of characters in stranger things have an spotify playlist. Steve has one, Billy has one, Will has one, Jonathan has one, Mike has one, Lucas has one, Nancy has one, El has one and more characters have one. These spotify playlist were made by the creators of Stranger Things (you can even see that it is official because it says "spotify" instead of some fan user) and they were made for the characters in season 2. These playlists aren't about the songs they like, they are about the songs that fit their characters because on their playlists there are actually songs from like 2016 and stranger things takes place in 1983-1988 so no way it is about the songs they like. It also isn't about the songs that they WOULD like because the playlists are made for the SEASON 2 characters in 1984. Anyway, my point is that all these songs are supposed to fit them and again, all these playlists are official, not fanmade. A few playlists are removed though, pretty sure only Mike and Will have one now or something.
On Mike's playlist that is called "Mike's Bassment Beats" has a song on his playlist called "Smalltown Boy". I listened to this song and focused on the lyrics and the song is about an man that was gay and he left his town because of all the homophobia. The song "Smalltown Boy" was also the first song added to Mike's playlist. I recommend you to listen to the song! because it is pretty good. I am going to say this one last time. This playlist isn't about the songs Mike likes, every song on this playlist is supposed to FIT MIKE'S CHARACTER. If Mike is straight this song wouldn't fit him a bit which wouldn't make any sense because every single song on this playlist is supposed to fit his character which was confirmed. What excuses are mileven shippers going to use for this one, hm? none because for this one there really are no excuses. I tried thinking of a few but there aren't any.
(The link to Mike's spotify playlist)
Also in season 4 episode 5 Mike and Will have a talk while sitting on a random car. Will says "Sometimes it's scary to open up like that, especially to the people you care about the most because what if they don't like the truth?" And it is very obvious he is also talking about hinself being gay and in love with Mike. He is giving Mike very small hints. So small that Mike won't really find out about it because that's also not what Will wants to happen. He is scared. Anyway, what i wanted to talk about is the way Mike nodded. After Will said "Sometimes it's scary to open up like that, especially to the people you care about the most because what if they don't like the truth?" MIKE LOOKED DOWN AND NODDED. What does this mean? it means Mike also has something he is hiding away from an person he cares about alot but he is very scared that person won't like the truth. Mike nodded and nodding is an way of saying "yes" but it is also an way of agreeing. He obviously agreed with Will by nodding, that is just an fact but what is he hiding?
You can say it is about mileven but the only thing he had to tell El (an thing that he was "hiding away" from El) was that he loves her but El liked the "truth" about that and Mike knows this. They are literally in an relationship and El broke down in tears infront of Mike because she wanted Mike to say "i love you" to her. Mike knew El would like the "truth" about that but he agreed with "what if they won't like the truth?". There is something he is hiding away from an person he cares alot about and he is scared they won't like the truth. The only thing i can thimk about is that it means Mike is gay and in love with Will but he is scared Will won't like that or he doesn't love El in an romantic way and he is scared El won't like that. Also keep in mind that Millie said Mike isn't loving El the way she wants to be loved.
(Link to the scene i'm talking about + text)
(Video is from my instagram account!)
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(Millie saying Mike isn't loving El the way she wants to be loved)
(Full video is on Still Watching Netflix's YouTube account and it is called "Millie Bobby Brown Shares her Favorite Scene from Stranger Things 4 | Netflix")
Of course we also have the monologue theory and i have two links to that theory on my instagram account here and here.
The last thing i want to talk about is the byler build up. Many mileven shippers use "mileven has been build up since season 1, why would they break them up?" as an comeback but have you never thought about the byler build up? It has actually been confirmed that Will has been deeply in love with Mike since season 1 and maybe even before since 1. Will has been in love with Mike before El came into Mike's life. Will has been deeply in love with Mike for 4 seasons and that's not all. They made an big part of Will's storyline in season 4 about him being in love with Mike and in season 4 Will's WHOLE storyline was about him being in love with Mike while he used to be the main character (with El of course). Why would they make his storyline only about him being in love with Mike while he used to be an very important character and why would they build up Will's romantic feelings for Mike for 4 seasons long (longer than mileven) just for Will to get rejected?
That storyline would be pointless then. It would be an huge waste of time and it would be bad writing. You can say "that storyline was only made to show Will finding out he is gay" but if that was true they would have make him fall in love with an new character like Robin and Vickie instead of an very important character that has been there since season 1 (Mike) that is also his best friend since kindergarten. It was also confirmed that there won't be any new characters in season 5 meaning Will is going to stay single or byler will be endgame. I don't think it would make any sense for the whole party to get an girlfriend/boyfriend and Will stays the single one...
Obviously, there is so much more proof than this. There is so much proof of Mike being in love with Will, of Mike being bisexual/gay and having internalized homophobia, of mileven not being endgame and way more. You can go to uhbylerisreal's account on TikTok, you can go to causeineedu's account on TikTok, you can go to @kaypeace21 's account, you can go to @beepboop358 's account, you can read the 320+ byler proof master slides, you can go to @awhstrangerthings 's account, you can go to @hawkinsschoolcounselor 's account and much more. You guys can say "this is just overreacting. Y'all focus way too much on the details" but if you are an actual real stranger things fan you would know how important small hints and details are in the show. The lyrics of the music in the show and parallels are also very important in the show. I can give some examples too!
In season 1 episode 2 it was already hinted somebody (mike) was going to jump off an cliff but survive. In season 1 episode 2 officer callahan says "oh, hell, i could survive that" while standing by an cliff. Later in season 1 episode 6 Troy tells Mike to jump off of an cliff so Mike does but he survives because El saves him. It was also the exact same cliff officer callahan was talking about.
Jason's death was already hinted. In season 4 episode 2 Lucas is throwing up at Benny's Burgers and Jason says "first hangover feels like you're gonna split in two". Later in season 4 episode 9 Jason splits in two because of the gates opening.
The season 4 ending was already hinted. In the creel house teaser that came out months before season 4 volume 2 came out we see an clock at the end and then we hear 4 chimes, then the clock breaks in the shape of an "×" and the middle part breaks the most. In season 4 episode 9 we hear 4 chimes and then hawkins breaks/falls in the shape of an "×" and the middle part breaks the most.
And no, this isn't an coincidence because Shawn Levy himself said that NOTHING is an coincidence in the show.
I showed all this proof to make you guys think. Do you guys actually think mileven is endgame while it was described like that and paralleld to unhealthy couples/ships and not endgame ships/couples meanwhile byler has been paralleld to healthy couples/ships and endgame ships/couples? It would make no sense.
Anyway, you guys can give me some mileven comebacks in the Anon ask thingy so i can make posts proving them wrong 🤭 (idk i just feel like that would be fun).
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firedragon1321 · 2 days
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I think we forgot a lot of the nuances of shipping somewhere somehow. Possibly before I even set foot in fandom. Rant below.
There are different types of ships.
Canon: The ship is built up and established in actual canon.
Plausible: The ship could be canon. It makes sense between those characters. But it is not canon.
Crackship: The ship will never happen in a million years. Could be funny though.
There are also separate types of fans.
Supporter: Shipping hardcore. Making fic, art, meta, etc.
Agreer: Believing the ship is plausible, but not really participating in its community
Denier: Believing the ship will never ever happen.
Anti: Being against the ship for moral reasons.
And somewhere at some point in time, they became this weird ass set of rules
If the ship has a lot of supporters, it is or should be canon. It is okay to attack creators over this matter.
If you post that the ship is plausible, you are automatically considered a supporter.
If you are a denier of a popular ship, you are not welcome in the larger fandom.
If you are a denier of any ship, you are also automatically an anti.
If you ship a crackship that rivals a popular ship (say AxC instead of AxB), you are not welcome in the larger fandom.
No ship is truly plausible- it must be justified via meta and therefore canon.
No fan is truly an agreer- they are either supporters who have yet to fully convert or deniers/antis.
If you are a denier or an agreer who does not wholeheartedly contribute to the ship, you "need reading comprehension" or "aren't a true fan".
All ships are equal, but the ones with rabid supporters are more equal than others.
Also, agreers and deniers have limited fandom participation, if any at all. The focus on shipping may be so strong that blocking that ship's tag locks them out of a character or fandom. This sucks not only for deniers, but for people on the ace spectrum who just might not be into that shit.
There are plenty of ships I agree on, that I find plausible, and would support if their shippers weren't...animals. If they weren't nations unto themselves, with a kangaroo court at the guillotine. For example, I'm quiet about Sormik (Tales of Zestiria) because I'm afraid of attracting attention from bad actors. My PS1 run-through of Final Fantasy VII said "yes" to Cloti, but the raging "Love Triangle Debate" said "no". Soriku (Kingdom Hearts) lost a supporter partially because of the insistence on it being canon. The "Sleeping Worlds Theory" is the finest piece of shipping propaganda in the JRPG world.
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In short, shipping has boiled down to a black and white dichotomy when it's more of a spectrum. People who fall between the cracks in that spectrum risk being chased out. Some are accused of the purity/censorship tactics of the "hard no" end of the spectrum. This is used to alienate them further. I'm not talking about actual antis- fuck them- but people who are in the lukewarm middle, mistaken for antis.
I know I'm not the only person who got fucked over by this rabid shipping culture (as previously mentioned, some ace people have voiced concerns). I would like to know more about how it began. Some of the anti stuff is recent (i.e.- only in the last decade or so), but I feel there was always a fight over plausibility that has morphed into canonicity.
The walls are closing in. I better paint them the right shade? Fuck that. Let me paint with as many colors as I want. Fandom is not a place where everyone has to bow to the might of the big ships. It vomits wood and nails and encourages you to make your own. Somewhere, somehow, that is the spirit we lost.
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