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#also pacey asking joey how she is <3
person4924 · 7 months
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hi hello i saw on ur pinned post that u do analyses and stuff on characters and as a fellow joey potter stan i would very much like to read any and all of ur thoughts on her,, there’s tons of stuff in the fandom about pacey/joey and pacey but i have yet to see an in-depth character study of just joey which is a shame bc she is SUCH an interesting and wonderful and complex character outside of her romantic relationships (which the show sadly doesn’t showcase very much) and her fuckass codependent messy situationship with d*wson (let her be FREE of that BEAST)
so yes. any and all things joey potter at ur earliest convenience please :) <3
OOO YESS THANK YOU SO MUCH FOR ASKING!!!
so i’m rewatching atm bc i watched a few years ago and forgot how much i loved it and i’m still brushing up so correct me if i’m wrong about anything
you can see whenever someone tries to comfort her, talk to her about emotions or compliment her, her body language gets closed off. she’ll hide herself and pull her knees to her chest and lean away from the person. also whenever someone calls her pretty, she’ll flat out call them wrong. it’s so obvious how much she hates herself and the way she looks, and ik u said u didn’t want me to talk about her rs with dawsons but i think it’s important to her character and how she interacts with him is important. it’s important to note that, they were childhood friends and he was there for her throughout all of the trauma she induced, her mom dying, her dad going to prison, everything. and i think physiologically that’s probably a big reason she fell in love with him. he was “there” for her throughout all of that, and so subconsciously she probably developed a deep connection to him and felt like she could trust him with everything and anything, and so she mistaked that for being in love with him. and then it ended in unhealthy codependency and dawson being a dick. AND also she was in love with him, like actually in love with him, and while she’s been in love with him for a while, dawsons only realizes when she has makeup on and is all dressed up. which is basically like “i’m only attracted to you because it’s convenient and your pretty” which is so fucked up. so in her head she probably connected love with looks and so in her head now she’s thinking “i have to be pretty to be loved” and she already thought she was ugly. so basically in her head dawson made her think “i have to be pretty to be loved, and i’m not pretty so i can never be loved” and that also shows in her future rs that whenever someone says that they love her or think she’s beautiful she shuts down, and again you can see it in her body language. OH WAIT ok i also forgot, before all this, because of her parents rs shes in the mindset that “vulnerability is bad and allows opportunity for people to leave, so don’t be vulnerable.” sooo basically her head is already so fucked up and confused and then dawson just added a ton of shit on top of that. and again with her body language you can see whenever she feels vulnerable or emotional, that’s why she gets closed off and snaps at people
i hope that made sense and i didn’t focus on dawson too much (i hate him sm) and thank you so much for asking! if you have any other specific questions or requests i would be more than happy to do them
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suzukibeanes · 6 months
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Okay the real reason I had to come back to this web site is because I’ve had this month long day dream about Pacey Witter as a baby butch lesbian that I cannot just not let go of. 
Like picture it, like pretty the same swagger that jj has but like with all the gender levels to it. Like in my head she can pretty much get away with dressing how she wants as long as she is not out. Like it’s the 90s. She’s allowed to have her “phase” along as its not spoken of or in their face (of course her family are still assholes so this could be a whole angle). 
So I say she still loses her virginity to the pedo teacher but no one really knows it was her because the gay part is too shameful even for rumors. It fucks her up a little and then she is like low key fucking girls on the side but like no one knows because she’s the sidekick. It’s the Dawson/Joey show the first 2 seasons and she’s there for the comic relief. 
Her and Joey would just hate each other so deliciously. Whether unconsciously or not Joey would resent her for her gender transgressions, for getting to have this super close relationship with Dawson that she can’t access because her femininity/the whole soulmates thing. And everyone growing up expected Pacey and Joey to be best friends and that never happened. Instead they both vie for Dawson friendship in a super competitive bitchy way. No one knows how to get under each other’s skin like them. 
Jen would obviously know pacey was gay right away and had a whole dyke friend circle in the city. She would constantly refer to Pacey’s gayness off handedly and people would be like what??? Paceys not gay. She just has short hair. Until she gets with the program and like starts secretly doing stuff in the background to keep Pacey’s secret safe and making it clear that Pacey can tell her anything any time!!! And Pacey just doesn’t get it cause she’s still dumb.
Anyways I think the stuff with Andie would still happen on the DL and Joey would find out about it. Andie is confident in her sexuality but doesn’t want to come out until college and she can lobby for the log cabin republicans lol. Joey finds out and Pacey makes her promise not to tell and she lords it over her a little even though a tiny part of her has very specific questions about how this all works. But anyways no one really knows about them except Joey. Not even Jen because she’s riding so hard for Jack that that would create an even bigger mess. Dawson could maybe find out at like end of s2 but its still not public knowledge about Pacey (even if its obvious). 
So like starting season 3 would be like Dawson asking Pacey to look after Joey because he’s being a dumbfuck. Andie still sleeping with guy at the in patient facility which makes her realize she’s bisexual. Pacey takes this extremely hard and has this whole biphobic arc because she thought she had found someone just like her blah blah (this will obviously be redeemed). It would also be funny if Pacey hooked up with Eve after Dawson was too chickenshit. Oh and of course Jen is still the world #1 hag and Jack is the most homophobic person in Cape Town. 
Pictures courtesy of google images to support my agenda
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the vision is there and we are so back
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zalrb · 2 years
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I want to preface this by saying that I did read through your Dawson’s Creek posts.
I have a question though. Do you think Pacey understands or knows Joey better than Dawson? In S3 Pacey teaches Joey how to drive stick shift which symbolic in representing how things are shifting between who understands her better. He also challenges her and listens to her. In S4 the show pushes back against the idea Pacey knows Joey best by having Dawson be the one who writes the peer recommendation for Joey.
What are your thoughts on this storyline? Do you think its done well. Tbh, it seems like they equally know her or understand her (well not S3 Dawson because the writers turned him into a Disney villain to make PJ more appealing) especially in S4.
Pacey being the one to teach Joey how to drive was also supposed to symbolize that he was the one she was growing up with, and doing/would do all the "adult" stuff with -- first time driving, sailing away together, first time having sex etc. which is also why in season 4 she says that Dawson knows her past but Pacey holds her future, I get the symbolism of all that but I don't think that's executed particularly well after their build-up.
Like, yes, in season 3 Pacey knew Joey more than Dawson did at that moment because we were supposed to see why a love triangle would even exist, what Pacey would provide Joey that Dawson didn't, and with Dawson it was either like she was his sidekick or his leading lady but with Pacey, she was the centre and it was like he was her leading man, I get that, but then season 4 happens and I think season 4 is actually more a Dawson/Joey season than a Pacey/Joey one despite the fact that they're together. When they’re actually in a relationship, not out at sea in a bubble, they’re kind of a disaster (I know unpopular opinion, and that’s why I’m only putting images during this part because the above part is pretty much universally agreed upon and doesn’t require visual evidence), the only thing Pacey seems to know about Joey at this point is how important Dawson is to her.
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They argue about everything
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and Dawson facilitates communication between the two of them
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Pacey is insensitive to Joey’s issues because he can’t relate to her level of academic success which is directly related to his home life (won’t get into factory settings Pacey)
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and Joey is then insensitive to his inability to relate
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so then they choose to not deal with it
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then Joey somehow doesn’t know that the last thing Pacey would want to do on his birthday is celebrate with a family who repeatedly tears him down
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(but Andie facilitated a real emotional moment between father and son! lol)
Pacey manipulates her into a conversation about having sex instead of just talking to her about it
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and then when they do have sex they argue about it
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and when he is there for Joey, narratively speaking it’s about things that Andie did for him
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that the show erased and said only Joey did or Joey did “better” (SOMEHOW)
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all the while she’s pining for the closeness she had with Dawson
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she’s having her philosophical, emotional conversations with him
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and then there’s the letter and not necessarily that she asked him to write the letter but her reactions to when he declines
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and when he accepts
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the fact that Pacey and Joey have great chemistry that is also very physically sweet
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and they have sweet moments throughout this
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-- love that his hand his on top of hers --
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doesn’t change the writing, which is not - in my opinion - better than DJ’s, it’s the same, so yeah I would say they both know her and don’t know her in equal measure and neither relationship is actually built for sustainability.
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gray-ts · 21 days
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THE CHARLIE TODD DEPARTURE
what Jen Lindley and Charlie Todd could’ve been.
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I think a lot about how season 5 of Dawson’s Creek would be more interesting if instead of giving us Jen-Dawson as couple again, and whatever it was that Charlie-Joey had, they gave us a better development of Charlie & Jen!
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Ok hear me out for a second: I know he was a jerk! But if he became a better, redeemable guy and wanted to be substantial for Joey, they might as well have written that he did it for Jen. If the writers didn’t have a vendetta against Jennifer Lindley!
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I wish we got multiple scenes of Charlie Todd having a great redemption arc, and apologizing for real, and making it up to Jen Lindley. There would be AGNST, and PINING, and Charlie being ridiculously down bad for her, and then JEN’S HOLDING THE CARDS, SHE HAS LEVERAGE.
And then: She wants to forgive him! She doesn’t know if she should! But he proves that he loves her and that he would be a great boyfriend!
Charlie and Jen falling deeply in love with each other until he has to go on tour! He wants to stay for HER! She knows better, she lets go of him because she doesn’t want him to give up on his biggest dream. He would’ve stayed if it was up to him. TIS’ THE DAMN SEASON! I WONT ASK YOU TO WAIT IF YOU DONT ASK ME TO STAY. Downfall! They break up!
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On season 6 he could’ve come back from tour. They missed each other tremendously, and they would be together again until inevitably realizing they might love each other, but they just won’t work. He wants to be on the road, touring, she wants to be in Boston and finish college and live with Grams. It would be a great love story. He could be her Dorothea. [hey Dorothea do you ever stop and think about me?] because of the implication that Dorothea from Taylor Swift’s song “dorothea” became famous. And she would be his tis’ the damn season.
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It also would’ve been nice change because Jen’s love interests tend to choose Joey Potter over her. Dawson Leery did it on season 1, 2 and the finale of 5. Pacey Witter did it on season 3. So it would be a change in the whole “guy wants to haves fun with Jen and be in a serious relationship with joey potter”
When it comes to Dawson and Pacey, Jen was used as plot device to lead them to Joey. And then there was charlie, and Jen was the “girl before” joey AGAIN.
So I wish we got a full season o Charlie and Jen instead.
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francesderwent · 1 year
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how about joey? and pacey?? For your ships ask. I forget what show they are from but I’ve seen you post stuff with them😅.
Joey and Pacey!! my favorite ship from Dawson’s Creek, my least favorite show haha
there’s a little scene in season 3 where Pacey’s been helping Joey with something, has in fact been trailing behind her like an extremely devoted puppy all season long, and it comes to light in the conversation that he initially started hanging out with her because Dawson told him to, because Dawson said she’d need a friend. “The only reason you’ve been hanging out with me is simply because Dawson told you to?” Joey says. Pacey answers, “Yep, that’s the only reason,” and you think it’s going to devolve straight into misunderstanding and hurt feelings and she’s going to think he doesn’t really care about her or get obsessed with Dawson’s need to interfere—but she just makes a face and says “huh. you need to get a life.” because she knows better, she knows his care for her is real!! but ALSO I have to mention the “you remember that?” “I remember everything” exchange in the prom episode.
of all the good girl falls for bad boy love triangles I ship, they’re probably the wholesomest, because Pacey is so good at waiting, and so good at making just the right move when he knows the time is right.
they’re a very Trying Season 2 Soundtrack ship!  I’m giving them “Glowing Review”: "this year's a plot twist / cause I'm not the sort to be certain a lot ...you are better than you know yourself / I found you off the highest shelf / I'll always feel the way I felt”
their obvious analogue is Logan and Veronica! they were part of a childhood friend group but Veronica and Joey both ignored Logan and Pacey’s annoying antics and fell for the moony good guy first—but Logan and Pacey are the ones who really see them, the ones who allow them to be brave.
to be totally honest I never finished the show because I got spoiled about a character death and I was too spitting mad to go on, so I’d very much like an AU where that doesn’t happen?? it’s not a Pacey/Joey AU specifically but it’s what I want!!
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asexual-juliet · 3 years
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dawson’s creek characters ranked based on their driving abilities
1: andie. andie’s fucking perfect at driving and has never once in her life gone above the speed limit but is such an insufferable backseat driver that she gets points off for that. 9.5/10
2: pacey. yeah he canonically failed his pencil-and-paper driving test the first time but we all know tests aren’t his strong suit and his instincts are notoriously incredible. probably passed the practical exam with flying colors because he’s been driving since far before he was legally allowed to. likes to brag that he’s never gotten a speeding ticket and everyone else is like “shut the fuck up, there are, like, two cops in this town and they’re your dad and your brother.” 9/10 a certified Good Driver.
3: joey. a perfectly decent driver. a bit of a speed demon sometimes but not so much so that it’s dangerous. sometimes gets a bit too caught up in adjusting the radio because she needs the vibes to be absolutely right. pacey taught her basically everything she knows though so she’s pretty solid. 8/10 thoroughly average.
4: dawson. the thing about dawson is that he can drive fine but he drives so fucking slow that it’s excruciating. everything’s an ordeal with this bitch. gotta check his goddamn mirrors fifteen times before pulling out of the driveway. absolutely incapable of doing two things at once and has to pull over to the side of the road if he wants to, like, turn on his windshield wipers or fix the air conditioner settings or something. can’t drive if there’s music on the radio. can’t drive and talk at the same time. 6.5/10 good effort.
5: jack. his two personality traits in s2 were Gay and Clumsy so i’m gonna go ahead and say he’s fucking shit at driving. he doesn’t like to do it and he’s not very good at it. a lose-lose situation. he could probably get better at it if he tried but he has a tendency to panic when he does something wrong so he just makes andie drive him everywhere until she leaves for italy and then relies on dawson despite his being the slowest most inefficient driver known to man because dawson is the only member of the gang that consistently drives carefully enough that jack doesn’t get horribly motion-sick. 5/10 for him.
6. jen. jen sucks shit at driving and failed her driver’s test three times before she went back to schedule another test date and the lady at the DMV told her that she actually passed her last test. she’s 99% sure that it was a computer error because she remembers crying to jack over how badly she did but she doesn’t ask questions and is now the proud owner of a completely unearned massachusetts driver’s license. she is also Convinced that she’s not a bad driver. she saw sandra bullock in speed and thought “yeah, I could do that.” she could not in a million years do that. she flies through red lights because she forgets to look at them and makes u-turns regularly. she’ll be going like 70 miles a fucking hour and applying mascara in her mirror while also eating a bagel. 1/10 not allowed to drive the gang anywhere ever. 
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drarreckyninja · 2 years
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drarreckyninja's top 50 ships of Feb 2022 [part 1/5]
50. Cistall
Sister "Cissy" Bear x Too Tall "TT" Grizzly [The Berenstain Bears]
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Cissy easily becomes narcissistic when it comes to her hobbies, like dancing and jump rope. She's also a major gossiper; both quirks similar to TT's ex-girlfriend Queenie. TT has a soft center, and I could see them getting together when they get older.
49. Brayla
Brittany Ann x Kayla [Miss BG]
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It may be a Dom/Sub relationship, considering how easily Kayla obeys Brittany Ann's dictations. She'll easily taunt others (including friends) if that's Brittany Ann's decision. It's not completely one-sided, as Brittany Ann admits that Kayla's the best friend she's got. And she'd rather spend Valentine's Day with Kayla than the boy who's after her affections.
48. Barge
Beetle Bailey x Sergeant "Sarge" Snorkel [Beetle Bailey comics]
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It's actually become a popular headcanon that Beetle and Sarge are gay lovers in a Don't Ask, Don't Tell era military, and their constant scuffles and insults are disguised as sexual tension built up by their inability to freely engage in a relationship.
47. Wonkafrost
Willy Wonka x Jack Frost [Charlie and the Chocolate Factory x The Santa Clause 3: The Escape Clause]
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Both men are outcasts among their peer groups and families. They have big plans for their businesses and are very eccentric in their ways. Furthermore, neither of them cares much for the women in their company.
46. Jacey
Josephine "Joey" Potter x Pacey Witter [Dawson's Creek]
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Dawson is much too petty when it comes to his friends, causing fights whether or not intentional. Pacey loved Joey first, and he's there for Joey when she needs him. He doesn't want to give her up and says as much, but he only wants her to stay with him if she'll be happy.
45. Kames
Ken Jennings III x James Holzhauer [Jeopardy; The Chase]
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Ken and James have a friendly, hilarious rivalry. They banter online, but they also go shopping together. In 2003, on Ken's first Jeopardy episode, he claimed to be there because of "two drunk teenagers and a truck driver in the Nevada desert." In 2003, James was 18-19. Was he one of the drunk Nevada teenagers? I like to think so.
44. Sparkison
Elliot Spencer x Parker x Alec Hardison [Leverage]
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John Rogers basically verified in a tweet that he used the original series finale to make this OT3 canon. They are always there for one another.
43. Dasey
Derek x Casey [Life with Derek]
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In the beginning, they seemed to just be average stepsiblings... then it went left field. You gotta remember that they're two teenagers who don't know each other and are forced to live together. They grow certain attachments, and it might not be all platonic.
42. Licmint
Lord Licorice x Mister Mint [Candyland; Candy Land: The Great Lollipop Adventure]
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Mint is very optimistic and has no qualms in sneaking through Licorice's cave a la shortcut... until he gets caught. IRL: licorice and peppermint go very well together.
41. Lumiworth
Lumiere x Cogsworth [Beauty and the Beast]
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Although Lumiere spent a lot of time in the first movie with his feather duster girlfriend, he was also happy to kiss Cogsworth after they chased off the villagers. They're snarky yet affectionate to one another, and they truly care for each other.
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solo-23 · 3 years
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I'd debated about whether or not to post this because it's definitely a rant and there is definitely a lot of negativity, but I need to vent after last night's episode (with some leftover issues from earlier this season, too). If Betty is your favorite and you don't like to read anything negative about her, you will not like this post.
1. The way the voicemail has been blown completely out of proportion by the writers, reviewers, and some shippers is ridiculous. We keep hearing about how it was terrible, emotionally abusive, toxic, and something that Jughead definitely needed to apologize for, but nothing he said was actually out of line. There is absolutely nothing in that voicemail that Betty should have been surprised about, let alone treating it like it somehow turns her into the victim in the fall of Bughead.
It's not surprising that Jughead has now apologized twice for the voicemail, even if he doesn't actually remember all of it, because he knows that it hurt Betty. He can also probably guess what he said because he knows what he feels and how it can be exaggerated when he's feeling depressed or under the influence of drugs and alcohol. Generally if you actually admit what you're thinking or feeling when you know it would hurt someone, you feel bad about it. It doesn't matter if it's true or not, or if you're under the influence. A good person apologizes if they know they hurt someone. Jughead is a good person.
Just a note here, I've seen other people saying that Betty's actions while high should be excused just like people have said Jughead's voicemail should be excused because he was under the influence. Being under the influence DOES NOT excuse the voicemail.
The fact that Betty cheated on Jughead, did continue to sneak around with Archie while debating whether or not she wanted to "officially" pursue him, hid the whole affair until Jughead actually caught on and she had to make up a direct lie to his face or confess, never actually explained anything to Jughead (things like she was the one who stopped the affair, she wanted to stay with Jughead, etc.) even after he asked if they could talk about it, stood him up at Pop's a year later, and then stood him up again at the book release party justify Jughead's voicemail. And he has apologized for it twice.
2. That is why it was so intensely frustrating for Betty to just brush off his apology (again) and then turn the conversation to her, but without actually apologizing for anything. When Jughead mentioned not really being able to remember the voicemail, she could have brought up what bothered her in it so (a) he would know and (b) they could actually discuss the issues, which could have led into Betty actually explaining what happened with the cheating, including how the affair ended, and she could have apologized for that. It still wouldn't have been fully satisfying because Betty never apologizes first for her actions, but it would've been better than nothing. She also could have apologized for standing him up, although at least she explained why she didn't make it to the book release party.
3. However, she still didn't admit to or apologize for giving away Jughead's manuscript. The entire reason Jughead relapsed into drinking and almost plagiarized Cora is because Betty gave Jessica his manuscript. No, Betty does not get credit for "saving" Jughead because she was present when he got a phone call from Samm and admitted that he wasn't the author. She's the reason he was in that position in the first place. Yes, she had been drugged. Yes, Tabitha was present and didn't stop her. No, neither of those things excuse it. It also doesn't excuse her from sharing the voicemail with Tabitha and Jessica.
Why not? She and Tabitha were still shown as functional when all of this happened. Jessica admitted that she drugged them to try to get the manuscript. They were both capable of thinking and arguing. Betty chose to give the manuscript to Jessica. It wasn't until afterward that Betty and Tabitha started being really impacted by the drugs. Jughead's manuscript wasn't Betty's (or Tabitha's) to give away and doing so completely screwed Jughead over.
There are some questions here--did he switch over to his typewriter and that's why there was no backup? did he forget to save a copy on his laptop? did his laptop crash or get lost? who knows, but in the story it doesn't matter. There was one copy and Betty gave it away, placing Jughead in the position of losing his agent or plagiarizing another author.
Also, for playing the voicemail, Jessica had just brought the drugged fries to the table. No one is shown as having felt the effects of the drugs until Tabitha made a comment about being warm after the voicemail is over. Betty had been reluctant to help from the beginning, before Tabitha mentioned the "don't be a Betty" line, and made fairly rude comments about Jughead throughout the episode. I don't think she needs to apologize to Jughead for sharing it, but I also thought that playing the victim and having some people blame it on "being high" was ridiculous.
4. You cannot convince me that Betty cares about Jughead in the slightest when he was telling her he was an alcoholic and he's trying to get better and he's clearly drinking alcohol right in front of her and her response is "I'm an addict, too. I'm addicted to serial killers." She's struggling, yes, and it's good that she's opening up, but if she cared about Jughead at all an appropriate response here would be "So, why are you drinking?" or "are you okay?" Show some sort of concern for someone who is relapsing in front of your face. Jughead does it for Betty when he suggests she should take a break, even though he's in a moral quandary caused by Betty, depressed, and drunk.
Also, no, chasing serial killers is not an addiction in the same way as drugs or alcohol and it's insulting to say they're the same. Chasing serial killers could be described as a compulsion for Betty, or a hyperfixation, but it's not the same. It's difficult, but you can choose to not follow a compulsion without experiencing the often severe physical side effects experienced by actual addicts. I'm glad Betty recognized that she has a problem, but no, that is not an addiction.
5. The entire conversation is extremely awkward. It's clear that it isn't what Jughead had in mind, but his life that he had just been starting to get back together fell apart. He sank to new (or at least different) lows. Betty seemed like she wanted to leave as soon as she got there (understandable given how awkward it was, even secondhand) and disappeared once Jughead was distracted by a phone call. It's understandable, but disappointing. The part that was really frustrating, though, was that after talking to Jughead about how unhealthy her serial killer obsession is and how she's worried about her mom, she still goes out. Alice was passed out on the couch, which Betty paused to acknowledge. That should have been a turning point for Betty and it just wasn't. Screw these writers.
6. I loved that Tabitha and Jughead had mutual apologies, discussed their issues, and genuinely seemed to care about each other. I also loved that Jughead still cares and worries about Betty (frustrating as it is when it seems unreciprocated) because it's so true to Jughead's character.
7. It is absolutely fine and understandable if Betty has moved on from Jughead. She seemed to believe that if he found out about the cheating in their senior year, it would be the end of their relationship. She started shutting him out and trying to move on the next day.
However, as a Jughead fan, it's intensely annoying to see him still struggling with the lack of closure and continuing to have feelings for Betty after all of that. I would have preferred to see either both of them move on, then rediscover each other later (or not, depending on where the show is going), or have Betty be the one who still clearly has feelings for Jughead and have her regret blowing up the relationship.
8. Overall, I hate a lot of what the writers have done this season. I don't particularly like any of the backstories for the characters during the time jump, I don't like each character following a separate plot line(s), the lack of interaction between characters, and how disjointed everything feels.
The mothman plot was interesting, but seems destined for a disappointing end. There have been a lot of missed opportunities to bring storylines together (Jughead went missing while Archie was looking for escaped prisoners, he could have found Jughead; Jughead hitchhiked with a random trucker, even without the trucker attacking him he could have seen clues or found Polly; Sweet Pea or Fangs could have seen Betty playing hooker and organized an intervention instead of having the weird cult plot line; I'm sure there's more). Maybe it'll be better with a binge watch, but I'm having trouble maintaining interest in the final three episodes, let alone rewatching this mess of a season.
BONUS: I was relieved that the Bughead talk did not go with my worst case scenario. Based on the possible B/A return, I was a little bit worried that Jughead would apologize for the voicemail and remember what he said, then talk about how he always knew Betty had feelings for Archie. Betty, who said she'd been "wanting this since high school," would then nod along and say she was sorry for hurting him, but acknowledge those feelings. Then Jughead would ask why they never acted on those feelings after the breakup, Betty would talk about the FWB, and Jughead would go full B/A cheerleader and tell her to give it a chance (like the Pacey and Joey chat about Dawson at Mitch's funeral in Dawson's Creek). I was dreading that possibility and I'm so glad the show didn't go there. I'm sorry if I've given anyone nightmares.
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joey-potters · 2 years
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Thoughts on Joey Potter?
I have so many thoughts on Joey Potter.
I think I'll say first she's my favourite female character and I honestly don't even know how it happened. I didn't start watching Dawson's Creek until 2016 and I can't even remember who my favourite character was before then.
It was in the pilot episode that I just fell in love with her. She was snarky and sarcastic but also had really light and rare moments where she'd smile or laugh and it just hooked me. She really found herself throughout the show and now this is making me want to do a rewatch haha
I love so many things about her, her drive, resilience, snarky attitude, her work ethic, her personality, she can actually be really sunny and bubbly and I love that about her.
I love her arc throughout the show. She goes through a lot and makes mistakes and she's flawed and I love that she's flawed. It makes her feel like a real teenager, a really fully fledged out character. She's defensive and cutting to people but also really kind and open hearted once she gets to know them.
Honestly I know the fandom hates S5 and S6 but Joey's arc was really interesting and the romance stuff aside I really enjoy watching her story play out. I also love that she makes her way to France, it was such a full circle moment.
I just love her so much and she's been through so much and has come out of it such an aware and kind hearted person. I love that she beat the odds and I love her relationship with her sister and Bodie.
Her relationship with Pacey is a given, one of the best romances I've ever seen on TV and there's a reason it's still talked about today. I also adore her relationship with Jen. I wish we had gotten there earlier and spent more time with them, but the scenes we did get were so lovely.
I don't even feel I relate to her, because I don't, she's not like me at all and I thought I'd like a character more if I felt I could see myself in them but it's not that at all.
Anyway I'll stop rambling. Thanks as always for asking Ashton <3
Send me thoughts on...
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So I know that “‘tis the damn season” is supposed to be a parallel to “dorothea,” but has anyone noticed the possible Dawson’s Creek references? Hear me out...
1. Both Pacey and Dawson, at different points in the show, tell Joey to “Ask me to stay.” (Pacey paints it on the wall before he’s about to leave for his boat trip, and Dawson flat-out tells her at the airport before he’s about to go back to LA)
2. Which, yes, brings me to my second point. “So I’ll go back to LA, where all the so-called friends will write books about me if I ever make it.” Dawson is trying to make it big as a director in LA.
3. Taylor said that Dawson’s Creek has been one of her quarantine binge shows. She said that in a chat during the premiere for the “willow” music video. This was BEFORE the album came out, and our girl loves to drop Easter Eggs.
4. “Messy as the mud on your truck tires” -Joey Potter drives a truck.
5. I feel like this song is almost from Dawson’s point of view, and if “dorothea” is its parallel, perhaps that song was inspired partially by how Joey would feel?
6. There’s also smaller things, like that they used to hang out in Dawson’s bed all day (platonic, apparently) before becoming romantic. “Sleep in half the day just for old times’ sake.” & the fact that they’re from a small town.
Haha does any of this make sense or is it a stretch?
I truthfully haven’t watched all of Dawson’s Creek so I’ll have to take your word for it but I do love a television analysis!
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paceyjoeydaily · 3 years
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what are your favorite episodes from each season? :)
I’m gonna answer this in terms of my favorite episode for Pacey/Joey from each season, just because of the nature of this blog, if that’s alright with you anon! (However, if you’re looking for my personal top 5, I did answer that over here on my personal!) But, here’s my top 2 favorite episodes from each season based on the Pacey and Joey content! :)
(Also below a cut, because it got kinda long, but read through it you wanna know my gushy thoughts) 
season 1:  1. double date (1x10) - I feel like this is totally predicable but also, it’s predicable for a reason. This is the season 1 Pacey and Joey episode. We get to see them together for basically the entire episode in all their bickering “we’re not friends but we totally are but trust me I’d rather rip my own eyeballs out then admit I care about” glory that they mastered so well in season 1 and it’s just so good. I love this episode, and feel a bias towards it because it was the episode that personally turned me into a P/J shipper!  2. boyfriend (1x08) - It was between this episode and Decisions (the finale) but ultimately this episode wins for me just because I am a huge sucker for Pacey being worried about Joey when she’s drunk and this episode gives me just that. I also just think their friendship is so fun in this episode and I think this was one of the first times where we really got to see them shine in their dynamic outside of Dawson which was super, super fun and it’s just a great episode for them. 
season 2: (lmao...)  1. parental discretion advised (2x22) - Again this episode feels kinda like a gimme considering how little content we got all season and this was one of the few episodes where they actually interacted, but I actually do genuinely love their dynamic in this episode, especially on Pacey’s end. We really get to see how much he cares about Joey even if they aren’t close yet, from him standing up for her family to his dad to saving her from the fire. I just think this episode really shows that hey these two characters do care about each other even if the show didn’t want to show us.  2. be careful what you wish for (2x16) - HEY look it’s the other episode in this season where we see these two interact. But honestly, I adore their little one on one scene in this episode so much. Seeing Pacey check in with Joey about how she’s feeling after everything with Jack and encouraging her that the party will be great. It’s just so great to see them in their lil friendship moment, I just love it. 
season 3:  1. stolen kisses (3x19) - I mean...c’mon, how can it not be. This is in my top 5 overall episodes in general so of course it was gonna make this list and how can it not? This is such a top tier Pacey and Joey episode that it honestly still sometimes baffles me how good of an episode it is for them. Like from the bed sharing (UGH SO GOOD), to all the tension filled longing looks, to the kisses and the counting to ten and the you made me feel alive (!!!) and that ending with Daydream Believer playing in the background, this episode is just everything.  2. true love (3x23) - There are so so many to choose from for the second option (Four to Tango! The Anti Prom! The Longest Day! Home Movies!) but ultimately the finale wins for me. I just can’t resist the happy ending! After everything the show put these two through in season 3, seeing them literally sail off into the sunset together was just so magical. Also not to mention that Joey’s love confession still makes me feel weak in the knees, it’s just all so good. And then of course there’s all the build up to that moment with Ask Me To Stay and the wedding tension it’s just all so good, I love it. 
season 4:  1. future tense (4x04) - Okay, remember what I said earlier about being a sucker for Pacey taking care of drunk Joey? Well, that’s one of the main reasons this episode is my favorite season 4 episode for them. I truly do love most of season 4 for them, but this one just has a special place in my heart. I adore the scene at the end with Pacey carrying Joey into the house and her adorable confession about wanting to be with him. Not to mention they are just so affection and fun in this episode, I love it.  2. a winter’s tale (4x14) - This one feels kinda obvious, but when an episode has one of the most romantic scenes in tv history, it feels like it should at least be given a passing mention, right? Obviously there’s a lot of unnecessary angst and drama in this episode but the final scene just makes up for it in every single possible way. I could watch the “ten, my love” scene on loop for the rest of my life and never not love it. 
season 5: (again...lmao) 1. appetite for destruction (5x10) - This one might feel like kind of a random choice (not there is much to choose from in this season), but I don’t know I just think the final scene of them in this episode when Pacey checking in with Joey about how to feels and them having a real genuine friendship moment just makes me love this episode for them. It’s such a sweet moment and their hug in this episode always gets me that it just makes me adore this episode for them.   2. something wilder (5x11) - In my opinion, this is the best Pacey and Joey friendship episode in season 5. From Pacey picking Joey up and driving her back to Boston, all while totally teasing her about her grades, to everything that happens between them at the club, it’s just such a fun episode for their friendship. I absolutely adore the lil moment where Pacey scares her at the club and they high five and Pacey cheering her on while she sings is so cute. This episode just has so many little moments that I think are just so adorable.  
season 6:  1. castaways (6x15) - I mean... HELLO?! What else could be the number one episode of season 6 (and of all time) for them, if not their bottle episode. There really is absolutely nothing better than Pacey and Joey being trapped in the store and forced to talk about their feelings and work through unresolved tension they have. It just is like a fanfic come to life and I love it so so much. After the barren wasteland that was s5 and early s6, getting this episode is just a dream come true. This episode is just everything and it’s perfect and I love it so so so so much.  I can’t even pick a singular favorite moment (that’s a lie, yes I can, it’s the snuggling scene, but I digress), because it’s all just gold.  2. ...must come to an end (6x24) - Two beautiful love confessions/declarations and an endgame, I mean, who am I to complain and look this beautiful gift horse in the mouth. This episode for them is just so beautiful, with Pacey’s speeches and them finally getting the happy ending they deserve, it’s just so wonderful and I’m so happy Kevin Williamson realized that they were the better couple and gave them the endgame. But seriously, Pacey’s “simple act of being in love with you” speech is the greatest love declaration of all time, so this episode is just perfect because of that. 
This got really long anon, but hopefully you liked reading my thoughts!! :) I really could go on for hours about these two haha. 
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kat--writes · 3 years
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I feel when it comes to the Pacey-Joey-Dawson love triangle, the DC writers don’t give the viewers enough credit. By having Dawson react horribly to PJ, they wanted the viewers to turn against him (not that I was a fan of Dawson’s character) and instead root for Joey and Pacey. Now I’ve always thought Pacey was the right choice for Joey. Dawson was insufferable but the writers didn’t need to make him more insufferable. They could have made the love triangle a bit more nuanced. It would have even so much more interesting if there Dawson and Pacey were both great choices, instead they made the choice glaringly obvious. Dawson was so wrong for Joey that I was against them getting together from the first episode. Promicide seemed to follow the same storytelling trajectory. Pacey’s public humiliation of Joey was meant to pave the way for both Joey and Dawson getting together and for the audience accepting their relationship (not me personally, but others I know). It doesn’t seem believable that after dating Pacey for nearly a year and having feelings for him for longer, Joey seemed to have gotten over him and instead decided to persue a relationship Dawson. When she was dating Pacey, Dawson was always on her mind (hence why she had a problem with him dating Gretchen and why she lied to him about losing her virginity) but in season 5 Joey doesn’t even seem to care that Pacey is dating Audrey.
I’m just struggling to underhand the writers decisions here.
See, where you’re getting confused is here: the writers needed to make sure the audience didn’t turn on Pacey and Joey -- it wasn’t necessarily about actively wanting to turn people against Dawson, but they. needed you to root for Pacey...and that was per the network request. 
Now, while I do feel that Dawson went overboard and basically became a Disney villain for a few episodes there -- everything he said and did was completely in character for him, and makes total sense in how that character would have reacted, in that particular moment. For him to handle that beautifully and come out of it looking great would have felt so strange, because the character just wasn’t in that place. Instead, the writers allowed him to act as the self involved, entitled boy he was, and then made up for that by allowing him to grow and evolve into, what I think, is a mature and likable character in Season 4. 
As far as Pacey and Promicide, I also disagree with you there. Pacey’s storyline in Season 4 is so meticulously and flawlessly done, you could NOT have written it better if you tried. That moment was written in the stars for them as a couple since the premiere episode, and his insecurities were woven so beautifully into their narrative and dynamic as a couple I am in awe of it everytime I rewatch. That said, they still were able to give Joey and Pacey an entire season of being fully in love and happy, even if there were significant issues for Pacey looming beneath the surface. That outburst probably was coming from when we meet Pacey in the PILOT, and it had to do with SO MUCH MORE than just Joey. 
As an addendum to that fact, I don’t blame the writers for letting Joey and Dawson kiss at the end of Season 4, either. It wasn’t like they declared their love for each other. The two had been best friends from the start of their lives, and they were about to say goodbye. Plus, they HAD been in love once. So those complicated emotions took over and resulted in a kiss -- a GOODBYE kiss. But Dawson still left, and they still decided they needed to move forward. Joey wasn’t actively pursuing a relationship with him that moment. The issues come in Season 5, when all of a sudden they aren’t moving forward anymore. 
I’m just not sure how you could ask for a “more intriguing love triangle.” it’s so fucking great -- the back half of Season 3 is literally perfect YA television, it astounds me someone wouldn’t be captivated or LOVE what the writers did and how they did it in such a nuanced way. If you don’t think it’s nuanced, you aren’t REALLY watching. 
Now if you want to talk about storyline issues in Season 5, we can -- because that’s when things get messy. 
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zalrb · 3 years
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OKAY. SINCE ANONS SEEM TO BE INTERESTED. HERE IS MY DAWSON’S CREEK 1X01 REVIEW.
@jayciethings​ IF YOU ARE INTERESTED.
1. I think the opening scene does a good job in establishing the central struggle of the season and it does it in 3 minutes: 1) things need to change and Joey wants them to 2) Dawson doesn’t see why anything has to change and doesn’t see what Joey is trying to say 3) burgeoning sexuality 4) Joey-Dawson friendship.
2. I also think the Joey-Dawson friendship is also established really well and it’s actually a time where dialogue and action work in tandem. They give a brief history/overview of their friendship: “you’ve been sleeping over since you were 7″ “i’ve seen you pick your nose, scratch your butt” while also showing them watch tv, playfight and ultimately end up sleeping in the same bed, like they did when they were 7.
3. I actually don’t find the dialogue as annoying right now.
4. I will forever be angry that they didn’t pay to have the original music with their scenes because Dawson’s Creek is not Dawson’s Creek without “I Don’t Wanna Wait”.
5. “He did it again, he grabbed my ass.” “Like you even have one.” Joshua’s delivery is perfect because it’s resigned and un-offended.
6. “I’m Jen.” “Oh right, the granddaughter from New York.” That actually isn’t clunky. It’s a good way to do exposition.
7. “You look different.” “Puberty.” LOL Joey Whitter sass.
8. Honestly, at least so far, Joey’s behaviour makes sense for a 15 year old girl who is in love with her best friend who doesn’t see her as a sexual being and then has to watch him salivate over The New Girl. No, that isn’t Jen’s fault but sometimes people on this site act like teenagers or adults for that matter don’t have messy and not-so-great emotions/reactions to things. Unless, apparently, they’re men who are rapists and serial killers, then the understanding is boundless.
9. It’s actually refreshing to hear “Mr. Leery” “Mrs. Leery” since teens in shows now just call adults by their first names, which I would NEVER do. I still can’t do that. If I had to address initiumseries’ dad it would be Mr...
10. I also think it’s funny that this dialogue is being made fun of but this kind of cadence and irony is the kind of thing shows go for now -- Riverdale tries to emulate this and I would argue Euphoria tries to do an edgier version of this. Like Nellie insulting Pacey, that kind of tone is what they’re trying to go for with Cheryl.
11. I’ll admit this is more fun than I thought it would be so far.
12.  I LOVE WHAT’S EDGY FOR THE NINETIES. SHE IS IN A SUNDRESS. SETTLE DOWN.
13. “I have it on pretty good authority that mothers have excellent sex.” LOL Pacey, dick move.
14. Renting The Graduate, how on the nose.
15. THEIR CLOTHES ARE SO 90s.
16. The soundtrack pisses me off so much.
17. Oh Dawson. I knew so many self-important, I’m-so-deep-I-like-these-kinds-of-movies or -this-kind-of-music boys in high school. Like I find it so typical that he thinks his obsession with Spielberg would interest Jen.
18. Dawson taking Jen to his studio is like Klaus taking Caroline to sees his drawings.
19. Oh man, I remember being a kid and watching these teen shows with my cousin and seeing how Capeside High School was with everyone on a quad and throwing footballs and being like HIGH SCHOOL IS GOING TO BE LIKE THAT and my cousin just being like
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20. I like how Dawson’s Creek is the whitest show and they still managed to have more Black extras than Gilmore Girls.
21. Dawson and Jen actually have a nice chemistry. But everyone is coming on super strong with Jen and she’s just kind of like, this seems normal.
22. The film teacher is a dick for no reason. I’ve had my fair share of dickish teachers but this is excessive right off the bat.
23. Lol poor Jen, she really is trying with Joey.
24. I like how a status of Joey’s class is the fact that her sister is engaged to a Black man *eye roll*
25. I don’t know of any school where teachers ate in the cafeteria with the students. In my school there were teachers who supervised the cafeteria but that’s it. Wow, I spent like no time in my high school cafeteria.
26. “I’m having a climax issue”
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27.  Tamara, Ms. Jacobs, you should be in jail.
28. I like how this school LOOKS like a school.
29. Ugh, a trans jokes. Ugh, there was so much of that in the 90s.
30. “Nothing has to change. We can talk about anything.” Honestly, from a screenwriting point of view, this is a solid pilot. I remember in a screenwriting class I took, we studied The Social Network and every 10 pages someone calls Zuckerberg either an asshole or a jerk or something in that vein as a way to reiterate a key part of the theme of the movie and while I don’t have the pilot script in front of me, DC does reiterate the theme of the season frequently without it being repetitive.
31. The dialogue isn’t as hyperbolic as I remember tbh. And I’m going to say it again, shows are aiming for this, even the one episode I saw of the Winx Saga, when they try to flirt about mansplaining, when she’s fighting with her mom about how she’s not a feminist, they’re trying for this. But DC manages to make it more natural and it’s because the Core 4 have a charm. Even if you hate Dawson.
32. Who is Dawson’s dad. Is he in something else?
33. No, I just think he looks like Dr. Cox.
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34. Dawson’s rant about sex not being important is hilarious. Yes, Dawson, you’re just pursuing Jen out of intellectual and philosophical desire.
35. I like how Joey is supposed to be a tomboy just because she’s the only girl/woman in Capeside who doesn’t wear a sundress.
36. Poor Jen.
37. Joey is super dramatic, I get that, but I kind of love it because I’m going RELAX but the way I would to a teenager. Like CALM. DOWN. Also “all I do is understand” is something that we needed to see more of before that argument.
38. Dawson, you never ask anyone else any questions about themselves, lol.
39. “How can you say you were just renting a movie??” Pacey is such a fifteen year old and I do wish the show would just ... let him be one? And what I mean by that is Pacey is supposed to be the friend with the edge, the fact that he “pursues” Ms Jacobs is supposed to attest to that fact, it’s framed as taboo and yet they’re presented as being on equal footing, even the way her date moves to grab him out of his seat when the fact of the matter is, he’s a kid, and if the show didn’t actually make the Tamara/Pacey relationship a storyline and made it about another way teenagers have certain idealized perceptions of relationships or apply kid knowledge to adult situations which still makes them kids, it would’ve been interesting too.
40. Dawson is literally dressed in different shades of beige. If that doesn’t say everything you need to know about his character --- which is intentional. But like jfc man.
41. I love that they can’t say “masturbate” so she has to say “walk your dog” I LOVE THE NINETIES.
42. And you know what, after that question was asked, the sheer heartbreak on Joey’s face and the sadness in Dawson’s eyes is done really well.
43. LMAO SO ANGSTY. No one does angst like the 90s.
44.  And legitimately, the ending of this pilot is great screenwriting because a change is noted, the beginning of the episode, Joey does end up staying the night, the end of the episode she leaves because they both realize it’s true that things are changing and yet Dawson answers her question about what time of day he masturbates and to who because they’re still Dawson and Joey. And that’s the way a pilot should be written.
OK. I’ve done it.
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love-geeky-fangirl · 2 years
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I think Rory and Joey were in love with their respective exes. I may not be a fan of Joey and Dawson’s dynamic but Joey was in love with him during the early seasons of the show (towards the middle and end of the series, her feelings were harder to discern). Rory and Dean are a great depiction of a first loves and Dean was a good boyfriend to Rory. I enjoyed their relationship in S1 and even sympathized with Dean when Rory cheated on him with Jess.
I’ll argue that the reason Rory/Joey were in love with or harbored feelings for Dean/Dawson was BECAUSE these boys represented stability, safety, and comfort (I don’t see how Dawson represented those qualities in the end of S3 but that’s besides the point).
Hi anon! I agree... sort of. Let's unpack here.
I'm going to start with Rory since her feelings for Dean were simpler. I think what Dean and Rory had was puppy love. Just like you said a "great depiction of a first love". I disagree with you that Dean was a great first boyfriend, but I think that he'll always have a special place in Rory's heart despite all bad that he's done because he was her first in many ways. He was her first kiss and her first boyfriend and in the pilot episode it also seems like he was the first guy that noticed Rory and was interested in her (at least that Rory knows of) and actively pursued her. In season 1 and the beginning of season 2 Rory is in love with Dean but that seems to fade in like season 2 episode 3 or so when Rory wants to study instead of spending time with Dean and he gets frustrated and yells at her about it (this is even before Jess comes to town). From that episode on Rory doesn't seem to enjoy spending time with Dean or look forward to it, gets more and more interested in Jess and generally acts distant with Dean and it doesn't help that he starts to smother her more and more. I don't believe she loved him in season 4, I think she was just craving stablity in her life and regretted dating Jess so being interested in his polar opposite was her way of "undoing it" if it makes any sense? Also she just started college and everything in her life was changing and Rory doesn't like change not to mention she was doubting her academic skills. She desperately wanted things to go back to the way they were but it was too late because everything has changed. So to sum up I believe once upon a time (in season 1 and early in season 2) Rory did love Dean but in season 4 when she went back to him not anymore.
Now Joey and Dawson are much more complicated. Their entire relationship is like a soap opera. First Joey wants him but he's completely oblivious of her feelings and wants Jen. Then Joey puts on a pretty dress and make up and suddenly Dawson is interested in her (I hate it btw). Joey turns down and opportunity to go to France for him. They date for like 6 episodes before Joey sabotages their relationship by cheating on him with Jack (but tbf Dawson wasn't much better, he read her diary and then got mad at her over something she wrote). They get back together but then Dawson turns Joey's father in to the police and he gets arrested because of him. Joey yells at him and tells him she will never forgive him (understandibly) only to make a move on him a few months later and him rejecting her because he's dating Eve now. He isn't interested in her at all until he finds out she's dating Pacey, then he goes absolutely ballistic. Despite dating Pacey Joey claims that Dawson knows her the best and asks him to write a peer review for her and gets jealous when she sees Dawson kiss Gretchen. And then after breaking up with Pacey she goes straight to kissing and pining for Dawson again.
It's such a mess I don't even know what to make of it. I feel like the writers are just constantly breaking them up for the sake of drama and every other love interest either of them have however well-suited for them is ultimately just an obstacle in their way to being together. That's why it's hard for me to analyse any of these characters feelings because I feel like so many times they act out of character just for the sake of plot-convenience. But I guess you can say that these two are more in love with the idea of each other and with what they once had as kids than with who the other person really is. So many times Joey accuses Dawson of acting out of character when he's really not, he's actually being himself but that clashes with the idealized version of him that she has in her mind. So to sum up (and this is my interpretation) she thought she loved Dawson but in reality she loved the idealized childhood version of him because he was linked to safety and childhood innocence in her mind.
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Another Top 10 Male TV Characters (In no particular order)
I posted something like this before but I added some favorite characters and I had to get my feelings down in writing :) You can read my other post, but in summation, the characters I mentioned before were: Gilbert Blythe, Lenny Bruce, Logan Echolls, Mike Wheeler, Steve Harrington, Shawn Spencer, Burton Guster, Stanley Barber, Luke Danes, and Jim Hopper.
Pacey Witter (Dawson’s Creek)
I’ve found that my top 3 favorite male characters have something in common. They’re all funny men with a deep sadness underneath. Logan Echolls, Gilbert Blythe, and Pacey Witter. Pacey is such a kind guy. He is so caring and comforting. He is also so funny, snarky, and sarcastic. But then there is that vulnerability that he has and it’s so appealing. Pacey is this strange combination of complete confidence but also having a strong streak of insecurity. There’s this scene in season 1 where Pacey opens up to Joey and tells this story of how when he was 8 years old he lost a game of baseball and his father yelled and screamed at him and called him a disgrace. The next day he overheard him tell Pacey’s brother about the events and his father said “at least I have you.” The way that Joshua Jackson delivers that is so heartbreaking and makes you want to give him a hug. Joey and Pacey are far and above the most entertaining and interesting characters in all of Dawson’s Creek.
Jim Halpert (The Office)
Jim is such an important part of The Office in my opinion. He's the type of character that all those mockumentaries need. There are so many crazy characters and they need some normal characters that you can relate to. Yet Jim is also far from boring. He's hilarious and an extremely entertaining part of the show. Also John Krasinski is the freakin best :)
Ben Gross (Never Have I Ever)
Ben  Gross is another character like Logan and Pacey who is funny and yet also has a deep sadness beneath all of it. You really don't start the season feeling too much sympathy for his character. Though I don't believe it's right to demonize Ben more than Devi. When the show starts they are very antagonistic to each other and they both say hurtful things to each other. But when Ben starts caring about Devi, he does not look back. Ben would do anything for her, even drive in bumper to bumper traffic even though he's terrified of it. In episode 6, we see Ben's home life for the first time. That's when collectively so many people started to feel immeasurably sad for Ben. He puts forth this facade at school, but we find he just a sad and lonely boy who deserves all the love in the world.
Nick Miller (New Girl)
Nick Miller is iconic. There's a reason that he was trending on Twitter 9 years after New Girl began and 2 years after it ended. I could never find the reason he was trending aside from the fact that he some classic and iconic lines and a lot of people are discovering the wonderful world of loving Nick Miller. Nick is an absolute gem and in my opinion the best character in New Girl.
Maxwell Smart (Get Smart)
Maxwell Smart is such a deservedly beloved TV character. Max and Get Smart are so important. So many of Max's lines have entered the English lexicon and taken on lives of their own, such as "Would you believe...," "Missed it by that much," "Sorry about that Chief," and "I asked you not to tell me that." He's hilarious and no can play him as well as Don Adams.
Lucas Sinclair (Stranger Things)
Lucas is such an underappreciated character. On Youtube there is next to no tributes to his character. He's always been amazing but season 3 really brought him up to a new level for me. Lucas saved the day at the end of the season. I would also say that El's humanity and how she got through to Billy helped save the day. But it was Lucas' idea to use fireworks on the monster and that was huge. Plus he had the heroes entrance. When they reveal who is throwing the fireworks and Lucas says "Flay this, you ugly piece of shit!!" It's a truly iconic line for an iconic character. Actually Lucas continually saved everyone's asses in Season 3. Also he's so funny... especially in season 3. I feel like the writers did a good job of shining a light on Lucas and giving a lot more to do. I love that we got to see Mike and Lucas' friendship as well, we've heard so much about it in past seasons, but to finally see the friendship in action was supremely important.
Dustin Henderson (Stranger Things)
Dustin is a precious ball of sunshine and must be protected at all costs. He has the sweetest smile and the kindest heart. He’s also a literal genius. If your ever in a bad mood just google his name it’s just what you need to brighten your day :) Side note. Gaten is a comedic genius already!!
Winston Bishop (New Girl)
Winston Bishop AKA Prank Sinatra!!! Lamorne is such an amazing addition to New Girl. There are so many classic Winston moments, like his love of “puzzling.” His inability to do a prank without going way overboard or not going far enough. I also love the scene where he gets the glasses that counteract his color blindness, his excitement at seeing different colors for the first time is so pure!!
Jerry Helper (The Dick Van Dyke Show)
Jerry Helper is such a dynamic person and a lot of that is thanks to the fact that Jerry Paris (who plays him) is so dynamic. I think the saddest thing about TDVDS is that Jerry had less of a big part of show as it went on, because Jerry Paris became the main director of the show. It was his dream to be a director, so i’m happy for him, but it just means that he directed more of the episodes and acted in less of them. Jerry and Millie were perfect for each other, they were both such entertaining people and I loved their relationship on the show. In a lot of shows there’s always the token couple who seems to hate each other and fight bitterly. Jerry and Millie were the type of couple who fought all the time, but the unique part is they truly love each other as well. The way it’s written you get the impression that they fight passionately but they also make up passionately.... do I need to write Jerry and Millie fanfiction? I think I do ;) Side note: were Jerry and Millie the first couple on TV to go to marriage therapy? I feel like they were, which is another way that The Dick Van Dyke Show was ahead of it’s time.
Arthur “The Fonz” Fonzarelli (Happy Days)
The fucking Fonz!!!!! Icon!!!!! I don’t think there has ever been a more iconic character in all of television. It’s been said that after The Fonz talked about getting a library card in an episode the amount of library cards being issued spiked dramatically. Supposedly the library association said that it spiked by 500%, whether or not that exact amount is correct, it points to just how popular The Fonz was. His leather jacket is in The Smithsonian museum. But the The Fonz is not just cool, he’s also an extremely interesting character. Sadly he was abandoned by his father and by the sounds of it also his mother. He was largely raised by his grandmother since the age of 6. He dropped out of high school and he joined a gang. Fonzie is an incredible man and he adopted a son out of wedlock because he wanted to give a kid a better childhood than what he had. He truly was a symbol of kindness and he was the coolest fucking character to ever exist. He was a proponent of civil rights and advocate for people with disabilities, and he even learned sign language so that he could communicate with a woman who was hearing impaired. Henry Winkler was nominated 3 times for that role. Since then Henry has gone on to other amazing roles. He had a part in Arrested Development, he plays Jean Ralphio’s father in Parks And Recreation. And most recently he finally won a much deserved Emmy for his role in “Barry.”
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preppymayhem · 3 years
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You make a good point about other characters being made worse so Dawson could look better. Though to be honest, the show did the same with Dawson and Andie in S3 so people wouldn’t turn on Pacey and Joey.
You’re definitely right about Dawson’s being protected by an armor because he’s a protagonist. Everything revolves around him and around his feelings. Characters like Pacey and Jen aren’t afforded the same treatment when they screw up. They get isolated. In S3 all of Dawson’s friends were there for him after Joey ran off with Pacey. And he didn’t deserve it. Kerr Smith, the actor who plays Jack, commented that it was hard to film that scene because right before that he filmed an emotional scene with his homophobic dad. It was like Dawson’s heartbreak took precedence over everyone else’s problems. The end of S6 followed the same trajectory. All of Dawson’s friends were there for him even though Pacey suffered the same fate. No one was there to help Pacey get back on his feet. Dawson screwed up just as much as Pacey. He shouldn’t have invested all of his money.
Also, Pacey payed for the repairs for Dawson’s house. That cost thousands of dollars. If Pacey hadn’t done that, all of Dawson’s income would may have gone towards those repairs. Funny, that Dawson didn’t blame Audrey for destroying his house. Audrey even pointed out that he’s not judgmental. All of Dawson’s judgment is reserved for Pacey. He doesn’t get jealous of his other friends’ success but he gets jealous of Pacey’s success.
The problem I have with Dawson is actually the same problem I have with Joey. She too suffers from protagonist syndrome - as I like to call it. Many of the female writers said they identified with her and the men in charge of she show seemed obsessed with her. Busy Philips (the actress who plays Audrey) commented that whenever she would forget her lines, she would be told “we’ll just cut to Katie, look at that pretty face.” Joey was turned her into a Mary Sue. She no longer was relatable. Every guy wanted her and every girl wanted to be her. All the female characters were sidelined in favor of Joey. She was every man’s first choice. Jen was reduced to a temporary option or second choice (especially in regards to Dawson and Charlie but also Pacey in Four to Tango). During the college years Joey she wasn’t given any obstacles and therefore wasn’t growing. She didn’t have financial issues despite the fact that she was a college student with no job (how did she afford a ticket to Pairs and all those fancy clothes?). In S6 She was literally offered 2 jobs out of the blue without having to work for them. Things seemed to come easy to her and everyone seemed to fawn over her.
I think you’re conflating a few things that are actually related Anon on, namely I don’t think either of those anecdotes about the actors actually relate to the treatments or story developments. I think any scene would have been hard on Smith if he had to do it after a big scene in which his character was much more centered, and the Busy Phillips anecdote relates more to a workplace thing then anything serious regarding the actors. Actors aren’t their characters and both those things aren’t really related to the subject.
Also I disagree re: Andie being made to look worse in s3, or rather the idea that she was made to look worse to prop up PJo the crap writing for her came early in the season before the romance plot was even a thing or set in stone. Through the actual back half of season 3, I think she came off really well (if anything she made Dawson look even worse by comparison). Same for the Jen & Pacey thing, that also ended basically right at the point that the romance started and Jen was never pushed over for it. I actually really liked her little romance with the freshmen quarterback (like not as a serious endgame thing), I thought it was cute.
That said I have a few objections and sort of clarifications on your ask, anon. First, I don’t think Joey is a Mary Sue, but then I also think Mary Sue is a baseless term born out of fandom misogyny and I don’t take it seriously at all as a way of analyzing or critiquing a character. I think you can argue that there is favoritism in how Joey is treated at different points, but I would say that I would favor more gender-neutral ways of critiquing.
The thing is I like Joey, I do think at her core she is relatable and she still comes across as human. Do the writers favor her? Yes, tho I’d argue that it is not her character’s fault that the writers short changed the other female characters in the show. And the thing is that I personally do not care about the majority of what happened in season 5 and most of season 6 that I don’t really factor either season into how I feel about the characters. I am very wishy washy on canon. And also it’s okay that you don’t find Joey relatable, but the idea that she isn’t relatable is not universal. Even with the late season and college years so lines there is still that is plenty relatable about her, and there are people who do like and have no issues with Dawson Leery, I just happen to not be one of them.
Which brings me right down to the clarification that I want to make which I am not nor have I ever really claimed that I am making these assessments from entirely objectively places. So the fact of the matter is at a certain level the truth is I like Joey, I don’t like Dawson and my feelings was that even if he didn’t have The Protagonist problem I still wouldn’t like him for the same reason that I don’t like Ross Geller and Ted Mosby and Xander Harris. Whereas I like the basis of Joey’s character and as such I am more tolerant of the writer’s heavy handed ness or idiosyncrasies with her character, but also less tolerant when it comes to Dawson because it isn’t like that was ruining a character I liked, it was against a character that I already had a bias against, and the writing problems never crossed a line where I ever moved to disliking Joey.
And also a lot of Joey’s worst qualities are alleviated when she is allowed to be more independent from Dawson’s storyline. As I said before he completely makes her worse and brings down her character and plot arcs.
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