#a descendent from house blackfyre

[what-is-canon]

Post-Dance AU (because I hate how George decided to completely eradicate the Greens *cough* Alicent’s *cough* line)

Jaehaera survives the assassination attempt by Unwin Peake because that poor girl did not deserve that horrific end and that’s that.

She and Aegon III bond over time, because these traumatized kids deserve some happiness and you know what? Maybe they are the only two people in the world right now who understand even a semblance of what the other has gone through (Aegon watched his mother die, Jaehaera watched her twin brother be slaughtered) and maybe they both recognize that neither of them is responsible for what their families did to each other so why should they resent one another?

Over time they become a great comfort to each other. On the days where one is particularly gloomy, the other sits by them and holds their hand and they are content to sit in silence together and neither needs to say what they’re feeling because the other already knows.

They are both very close with Gaemon Palehair. He and Aegon are close for the same reasons as within canon, while Jaehaera believes that Gaemon truly is her half-sibling, her last remaining brother.

Eventually, Alyn Velaryon brings Viserys II home from Essos, but the boy comes alone (a 12-year-old boy married to a 19-year-old woman, yeah I think the fuck not, not in my history, and besides even if they had been closer in age Larra Rogare hated Westeros so let her stay in Essos like she wanted and live her own life there and be happy).

Like in canon, Aegon is somewhat neglectful of his wife and friend in the wake of his brother’s return, but Jaehaera and Gaemon understand his actions. Anyway, they still have each other for company. Viserys is incredibly distrustful of Jaehaera, and Aegon pleads with Viserys to be more understanding of their marriage and the comfort they have found in each other.

Aegon decides to hold a feast to celebrate Viserys’s return. Viserys spends most of the festivities with Baela and Rhaena, preferring not to fraternize with the daughter of the man who killed his mother. In the company of his sisters is Daenaera Velaryon (aged up in to be closer in age to Viserys because an 11-year-old boy and a 6-year-old girl? It’s a no from me).

Daenaera manages to cheer Viserys with her happy nature, and he’s quite taken by how pretty she is. Unwin Peake, having never been exposed as the one behind Jaehaera’s assassination attempt (as is also the case in canon) brings his daughter to the feast in the hopes that she will catch the eye of Viserys, but Viserys has already taken a shine to Daenaera, ruining his plans once again.

The pair begin to exchange letters and (like Aegon and Jaehaera) bond over their losses. Viserys tells Aegon about his correspondence with Daenaera, and when Aegon tells Jaehaera, she decides to invite Daenaera to court as her lady-in-waiting. Viserys is delighted, and slowly begins to warm to Jaehaera.

As in canon, Aegon’s removal of the dragon eggs from the Red Keep causes a rift between the brothers. Unwin Peake continues to plot treason, conspiring to kill Aegon and Jaehaera so that Viserys may become King and take his daughter as his bride. But if his daughter is to become Viserys’s Queen, Daenaera Velaryon must also be removed. It is no secret by now that Viserys is very taken with the the girl, and intends to marry her.

Jaehaera and Daenaera eat the canonical poisoned tarts during a private dinner organized for the four. Aegon and Viserys narrowly avoid poisoning as they are delayed by a Small Council meeting. As in canon, Gaemon dies, devastating both Aegon and Jaehaera. The rift between Aegon and Viserys is mended as they help their respective ladies recover. Aegon and Jaehaera comfort each other through the loss of Gaemon, and Viserys proposes marriage to Daenaera, which she accepts. Oh, and Unwin Peake is finally exposed and executed (I still cannot believe this man escaped justice in canon, but not on my watch).

The four form a strong unit within the Red Keep and are, well, as happy as four traumatized young adults can be. They finally have the family each was deprived of at such a young age. Aegon eventually names Viserys his Hand, Jaehaera gives birth to Aegon’s five children, and Daenaera gives birth to Viserys’s three.

But unfortunately, canonical events must still come to pass. Aegon and Jaehaera pass away within months of each other in 157 AC; Daenaera dies some years later, and Viserys becomes his stern canonical self in the wake of her death. The crown passes from Aegon, to Daeron, to Baelor, to Viserys himself, to Aegon IV, who legitimizes the Blackfyres- who are now the descendants of both the Blacks and the Greens.

#this is how the Hightowers and the Velaryons finally get a Targaryen each #if it’s true that House Whent are the descendants of Aemond and Alys #then the five Stark children are also descended from the Greens #also Gaemon is the son of Aegon II #Aegon II did not spare the life of that boy after the deaths of his two trueborn sons for no reason #the Blacks and the Greens eventually coming together to produce the Blackfyres is just peak bitch energy #George you should have made it happen #jaehaera targaryen deserved better #house of the dragon #hotd #asoiaf #alternate universe #canon divergence #potential fic idea in the making #aegon iii targaryen #jaehaera targaryen #viserys ii targaryen #daenaera velaryon #gaemon palehair #aegon iii x jaehaera #viserys ii x daenaera #house targaryen #house hightower #house velaryon #house blackfyre #the blacks #the greens #rhaenyra targaryen #alicent hightower #rhaenicent

[atopvisenyashill]

This Is How I Can Still Win: How The Penroses Are Related to House Targaryen

SO. In case you don’t remember - you probably don’t, it’s a throwaway line and likely just George retconning and not doing it on purpose - Jeor Mormont misremembers Aelinor Penrose as being Aerys I’s sister instead of her cousin. Here’s the quote, from Jon I in A Clash of Kings:

"No, this was Aerys the First. The one Robert deposed was the second of that name.” “How long ago was this?” “Eighty years or close enough,” the Old Bear said, “and no, I still hadn’t been born, though Aemon had forged half a dozen links of his maester’s chain by then. Aerys wed his own sister, as the Targaryens were wont to do, and reigned for ten or twelve years."

Potentially, this means that Aelinor has ~the Valyrian look~ and that’s why Jeor got them mixed up. But when you look at the information surrounding the Penroses that existed in this era, it looks a little wonky because of this line from The Mystery Knight:

"At the crossing of the Mandel, he cut down the sons of Lady Penrose one by one. They say he spared the life of the youngest one as a kindness to his mother."

So how can Elaena marry Ronnel, Lord of the Parchments, only have one son, yet Quentyn Ball slew all of “Lady Penrose’s” sons? How is Aelinor related to the Penroses and the Targaryens? What woman of Targaryen blood would marry into this random ass house in the middle of Stormlands? Why was it so important to retcon Aelinor from a sister into a cousin? Well - let’s have a think about what other houses have recent Valyrian blood…we have some female lines after all…perhaps even Targaryen women that married into politically active houses, who would love to marry back into the main branch again…I wonder who that could be…..Oh what’s that? Is that-

DRAGON TWINS TIME.

Allow me to spin two family trees for you, one where Rhaena’s daughter marries into the Penroses, and one where Baela’s daughter marries into the Penroses:

(pls applaud me for the amount of math i did for this very unserious post!) green is a romantic/marriage line, black is a parental relationship.

I am noting that this would mean Alyssa (I made her name up btw, mostly because I thought it would piss Daemon off to have a Hightower named after his beloved mother) gives birth at around 34, which is a perfectly reasonable age to have a child at, and Laena gives birth at like 40, which is definitely a lil risky! BUT there’s plenty of time for Laena to have other children, and for a second born son to have had a child at that same age, so if you think it’s a stretch for Laena to have a kid at 40 (perfectly fair) just pretend there’s a son there named “Roland” or something as Aelinor’s dad and Laena’s second born.

Now, FIRST OF ALL, this makes the cousin thing make sense, but also it makes it deeply funny - Aelinor is Aerys’ great aunt’s granddaughter. That’s a close enough relationship that you would consider them a cousin but it’s also the exact relationship Robert has to Rhaegar (because Rhaegar is Robert’s great uncle’s grandson). Both Aerys and Robert avoiding incest/kinslaying on a technicality lol.

But SECOND OF ALL. Do you know what makes me absolutely fucjing feral about this. Alyn Velaryon is messing around with a woman so much younger than him. That she marries his GRANDSON. because SHE IS THE SAME AGE AS HIS GRANDSON. i feel like george is weird enough to do the Baela scenario too.

And LASTLY OF ALL. Notice there’s plenty of time for Alyssa/Laena aka Lady Penrose after she’s married, to have several sons for Quentyn Ball to slay on the Redgrass Field, including Elaena’s husband, Ronnel himself, and for Elaena’s son, Robin Penrose, to inherit the seat afterwards. It also means, since it’s mentioned that Elaena married Michael Manwoody soon after her second husband died, that the two of them got a long time together. Why is this important? Because Michael Manwoody was her marriage for love and I want Elaena to have been with him for a long time.

This scenario gives her like 9 years with Ronnel (kinda sad, their kids don’t get to know their dad very long) and a minimum of 15 years with Michael Manwoody, who is apparently not the step dad but the dad that stepped up.

#me giving myself ronnel/elaena feelings for no goddamn reason making this akskkd. also used show casting but its book canon. #valyrianscrolls #elaena targaryen #aelinor penrose #michael manwoody #rhaena of pentos #baela targaryen #rhaena targaryen #aerys i targaryen #ronnel penrose #house penrose #getting on my soap box #rani attempts meta #i realize this is basically a secret targaryen theory. but the targaryens they're descended from are THE DRAGON TWINS so its fine #also don’t talk to me about the aerys fancast. yes it’s wwe superstar sami zayn. what about it. #i wanted to fancast someone with some sort of swana heritage that could pass for white. had a bitch of a time not repeating anyone from my #dornish graphic. gave up and threw in my man sami bc he’s a white passing syrian icon. #i'm otherwise very proud of these fancasts. if we ever get the blackfyre rebellion and elaena isn't played by kylie bunbury #i'm gonna be disappointed now lol. also if you are wondering yes the aelinor and ronnel in the rhaena graphic have one (1) black grandparen #alfred molina is probably too sexy to play aegon iv but mark addy is already robert so. #also the longwaters sigil is from the asoiaf rp wiki bc i didn't want to give them a velaryon one #bc fuck alyn that's why #echoes of sansa and arya

[thevelaryons]

I think fandom should start viewing the Targaryen & Velaryon succession crises during the Dance of the Dragons as the two separate issues that they are. 

In the case of Rhaenyra’s claim to the Iron Throne, the fact that she had bastards ultimately has no bearing on her claim. If Rhaenyra had only trueborn children, she still would have been usurped. It all just comes down to her position as a woman in a patriarchal society. That’s the issue GRRM is trying to explore over and over again with the various women of house Targaryen who have their claims challenged by a male relative. This issue is never truly resolved and so even post-Dance we have female Targaryens getting their claims usurped by men.

It is house Velaryon that deals with the issue of having ‘bastardborn’ children in the line of inheritance during the timeline of the Dance. The various Velaryon bastards face an in-universe classist treatment on account of their birth. Despite that, GRRM depicts these bastards as notable members of their family. The succession of the Driftwood Throne is repeatedly brought up in the book in relation to them. House Velaryon is divided during the Dance. It is not until the war is over that we see a resolution to the matter of the Driftmark succession: Alyn Velaryon, born Alyn of Hull, is to inherit the seat.

Since both families are quite close, it can often lead to people mistakenly conflating all matters between them. But GRRM makes it quite clear that these two families are dealing with separate political issues over the course of the war. 

#even in the main series a targaryen girl and a velaryon bastard are the most relevant figures from their houses #asoiaf #house of the dragon #house velaryon #house targaryen #meta #the blackfyre rebellion is an amusing amalgamation of this #a velaryon descendant bastard born to a targaryen woman who's claim is said to be usurped by a male relative

[aeg3n]

Bittersteel being the last known person with Blackfyre (the sword) means if it did stay with the Golden Company all these years, realistically, it could likely end up in Aegon's hands. But I don't think he would keep it after finding out he is not Aegon Targaryen.

#♔ ooc. ⊱ ❝ 𝘖𝘩 𝘯𝘰 𝘪𝘵'𝘴 𝘔𝘢𝘳𝘪. ❞ #aegon getting the sword is ironic in the funniest way like imagine a blackfyre who doesn't know he is a blackfyre using the sword blackfyre #the answer is right in front of you the whole time my dude #honestly I feel like him giving it back to House Targaryen via Dany or Jon could be symbolically important #especially when he decides to rebuild House Blackfyre and separate himself from its bloody legacy #House Blackfyre was born from that sword. They used it to legitimize rebellion against their kin. #now one of their descendants is giving it back to make amends #*that* kind of vibe #I mean it's all hypothetical we don't know who has the sword but imagine if they did give it to him

[lizzie-queenofmeigas]

It's so funny to me that half of Westeros descends from Daemon and Rhaenyra and like 65% descends from Daemon alone.

The Greens said that with Dany being the last Targaryen they ended up losing. The Martells are fine. The Baratheons aren't doing to bad either, they have bastards all over the land. Jon Snow. The Velaryons. Probably the Hightowers and Tyrrells as well. And so many other houses, not to mention Dany and the Blackfyres.

Half of the POV characters of asoiaf descend from Daemon and Rhaenyra.

#rhaenyra targaryen #daemon targaryen #team black #daemyra #anti team green #a song of ice and fire #asoiaf fandom #pro house targaryen #house targaryen

[goodqueenaly]

How much do the Golden Company know about Aegon? There is reference to Illyrio's ever-changing plans, and there seems to have been a deal in place for a long time, given that it was Myles Toyne that had guaranteed Golden Company support. And yet, for all Illyrio's talk of contracts writ in blood, it would be stupid for him to let anyone at the Golden Company know Aegon isn't Rhaegar's son.

It certainly appears that the (for now theorized) truth of Aegon's Blackfyre heritage, with all the accompanying strategizing, has not trickled down to, say, the Tristan Rivers level:

"Which plan?" said Tristan Rivers. "The fat man's plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.["]

That said, there was at least one member of the Golden Company who seems to have known the truth - Myles Toyne. Harry Strickland refers to Toyne entering into a "secret pact", a reference which aligns closely with Illyrio's teasing allusion to contracts writ in blood and Jon Connington's thought that "[t]he plans that he [i.e. Varys] and Illyrio had made with Blackheart had been known to them alone". Myles Toyne, scion of a family with a long history of resentment toward House Targaryen, himself perhaps having served in the Golden Company under the last of the Blackfyres, may well have figured a Blackfyre restoration would best serve him, his band of exiled Westerosi, and the spirit of the Golden Company; there was, at least, some personal motivation Myles appears to have had to agree to the Aegon plot with Illyrio. (Alas for Jon Connington, who therefore never suspected that his much-loved Myles was likely fighting to restore not his dead love Rhaegar's son but a descendant of the Black Dragon.)

Do I think Harry Strickland probably knows about Aegon being a Blackfyre? Yes. Strickland's knowledge of the existence of Toyne's "secret pact", coupled with Strickland's own longstanding familial loyalty to the Blackfyre cause and his position as the Golden Company's commander, all suggest to me that Harry is best positioned of anyone within the Golden Company to be entrusted with the knowledge that Aegon is, in whatever manner, descended from Daemon Blackfyre. If Illyrio needed the military support of the Golden Company, he may well have figured it was a necessity, if not a particular desire, to bring Strickland into the conspiracy. (Again, the secrecy emphasized by Varys to Jon Connington might have worked both ways here, keeping the Rhaegar-loyal Jon as much out of the Blackfyre loop as Jon himself thinks the Golden Company's men might have been toward Aegon-as-Rhaegar's-son; if Jon didn't need to know, Strickland certainly wasn't about to disillusion him.)

Do I think anyone else within the Golden Company necessarily knows? Eh, too little to say. The officer corps of the Golden Company certainly knew, before Jon Connington introduced the boy anyway, about our Aegon's cover story as Aegon Targaryen, son of Rhaegar and Elia, but whether they understand this only to be a cover story is still unclear. There are any number in that officer corps who don't appear to have any ancestral connections to the Blackfyre cause (e.g. Lysono Maar, Black Balaq, or Gorys Edoryen), and still others who, while Westerosi, may or may not know or care about restoring the Blackfyres. I'm not saying any of these could or could not have been let in on the secret, only that there's too little, I think, to say right now.

#asoiaf meta #the golden company #aegon vi targaryen #jon connington

[childotkw]

Hi there Jordan! I was wondering - how would you do Lucemond modern AU?

Hello darling! I’d do reincarnation because I’m a basic bitch and it’d work so well. Let me explain -

Lucerys dies via Vhagar, and is reborn later in the timeline. Not sure when, maybe in the Blackfyre Rebellions, maybe at another time - but he’s reborn with his memories intact. His new parents are smallfolk, poor, but kindhearted. He realises it’s been a long time since his first life, and while a part of him mourns what happened to his family (mourns and screams when he hears what happened to his mother, to his brothers, to Daemon and his step-sisters, to their House and to their dragons), he also comes to accept that he’s no longer Lucerys Velaryon, whose only marked impact on history was his death and the war it caused.

He grows up, looking only passingly like his new parents and everything like Rhaenyra and Harwin, and makes peace with his new lot in life. It’s only when he’s approaching adulthood that he is confronted with a ghost.

His uncle looks much the same as he does in Luke’s memories, but completely different. Two eyes, for one thing, and more unhinged than Luke had ever seen him - even during their last encounter.

Aemond remembers too, and Luke - despite how a part of him longs desperately for his first family - refuses to speak to the man that murdered him, no matter how Aemond pleaded with (and later threatened) him.

He doesn’t care about the remorse and deep loneliness he sees on Aemond’s face. He doesn’t care that his uncle seems genuine and admits to missing him and regretting that night so many years ago. All he cares about is what Aemond had done to Luke’s family, and the country he had almost burned to the ground in his rage and grief.

He runs away from his home, slipping through his uncle’s grasping hands, and disappeared into the faceless crowds of Essos. Running from the legacy of House Targaryen and all the unnamed emotions Aemond brought up in Luke.

He dies after a decade, killed in a back alley fight by some assailant.

And he wakes up again, years down the line.

Life after life, a never ending cycle of history piling up in Luke’s head each time he is brought, sobbing and bloody, into the world.

Only three things remain consistent.

He is always born in Westeros.

He always looks the same as in his first life, regardless of his parents.

He always, always meets Aemond again (and he always runs, even though he doesn’t really want to).

By the time they reach ‘modern’ times, Luke is just so fucking tired. He’s sick of being reborn. He’s sick of watching the world change so drastically, and hardly ever for the better. He’s sick of growing to care for his new family and friends, of falling in love and having descendants that he can never approach in the next life.

He’s sick of knowing the truth of past events and watching how it’s twisted by present-day people. He’s sick of the memories. He’s sick of how…unmagical the world is now.

He’s sick of avoiding Aemond, of pretending that the two of them aren’t connected.

Finally, Luke decides enough is enough.

It’s always been Aemond that finds him. Always Aemond that approaches, half in hope and half in resignation, asking for forgiveness. This time, Luke takes the initiative.

He follows the subtle tug in his chest, that invisible string that entwines their two souls, and heads out the door.

But, naturally, the first time Luke searches for Aemond is the time he’s proving difficult to find.

But Luke’s tenacious and stubborn to a fault, and he eventually tracks his uncle down to a dig-site excavating the remains of a city from ancient-Westeros (and wasn’t that funny, he thought, that Aemond and he were probably older than anything they found in the dirt). Luke’s arrival throws Aemond for a loop, because his nephew had never sought him out, and never looked at Aemond with such quiet need before.

The two of them slowly reconnect, centuries of hurt still lingering between them, but for the first time in an age, they feel content.

So of course, that’s when they unearth the petrified dragon eggs.

And of course, as the last two remaining members of the Targaryen empire, they accidentally revive the blasted things.

And of fucking course the two of them now have to protect the dragons from a world that has long-forgotten the taste of magic while running from the people that want to use the babies for their own nefarious purposes.

Luke is adamant that this is all Aemond’s fault. Aemond’s just glad he’s got someone else around that knows how to speak proper Valyrian and can handle a dragon.

(And if a part of him is singing at having Luke finally, finally willingly at his side, that’s his own business).

#anonymous #HOTD #lucerys velaryon #aemond targaryen #lucemond #new dawn AU

[aegor-bamfsteel]

Hello Bamfsteel. I have been following your blog for over a year now but I realize I haven't commented or reblogged much (I kinda avoid online interaction because I'm terrified of accidentally offending someone). But I cannot express how much I love your blog, and admire you for carrying on despite the hate you get from antis. I was already ambivalent about Daemon, but you got me rooting for him... and for Daena, Rohanne, and Aegor, the last of whom in particular is basically unanimously hated by the fandom (hell, one random tvtropes page even called him worse than Aerys the Mad King)!! So I'm grateful for your blog and hope you keep posting.

Anyway, as a fan of both the Blackfyres and Arthuriana, I'm currently planning to write an Arthurian retelling of Daemon I's life and was wondering about how he chose his sigil/heraldry. Twoiaf says that he simply reversed the Targaryen colors because that's what all bastards do. But I don't know if there are any other examples of this happening in canon.

On the contrary, I recall Jon saying to Arya in AGoT: "Girls get the arms but not the swords. Bastards get the swords but not the arms. I did not make the rules, little sister."

So now I wonder if the 'black dragon on a red field' was actually Daena's personal coat of arms, and Daemon simply chose it after Aegon's acknowledgement as a symbol of defiance and loyalty to his beloved mother. I love the notion that the chivalrous-to-the-last-breath Daemon Blackfyre didn't care all that much for his terrible and blatantly unchivalrous 'father' and instead everything he did, from winning the squires tourney to rebelling against Daeron, was his way of making his mother proud and atoning for all the humiliation she had to suffer due to his birth.

Sorry for the long ask. I am just excited to meet a fellow Blackfyre fan :)

Hello, thesupercat. Thank you for the long ask, and putting up with my slow responses over the past year. I have a little more free time/motivation to write recently, so I’m trying to answer more questions. I’m glad that my posts could bring your fandom experience some happiness. If you ever write the Arthuriana about Daemon I, don’t be afraid to send me a link.

TWOIAF and Dunk actually have different origins of the Black Dragon sigil; Dunk claims “the arms of House Targaryen had borne a three-headed dragon, red on black. Daemon the Pretender had reversed those colors on his own banners, as many bastards did.” (The Sworn Sword) but TWOIAF actually says “Reversing the colors of the traditional Targaryen arms to show a black dragon on a red field, the rebels declared for Princess Daena's bastard son Daemon Blackfyre, First of His Name, proclaiming him the eldest true son of King Aegon IV, and his half brother Darren the bastard.” (TWOIAF Darren II) What a lot of antis miss in their analysis of Daemon and Aegor is conflating their actions with that of what the Reds said their supporters did (if Daemon didn’t create the sigil, it could be evidence that the rebellion wasn’t premeditated, which I believe) I actually had an interesting debate about which version of the origin of the sigil was more logical with someone (I’d taken Dunk’s word to be true), but it’s actually more interesting if the rebels came up with it, because you’re right (no matter what the wiki has to say about it) the reversed sigil color scheme alone doesn’t actually indicate illegitimate origin: it requires that and a diagonal (usually red) slash, called in heraldry a “bend sinister” (which was used in real life illegitimate sigils, like the cadet branches of the House of Bourbon, Conti and Condé). There are multiple examples of illegitimate sons/their descendants using the reversed colors of their father’s house and the bend sinister: Walder Rivers and Walder of Woodmere (a silver castle on a blue field and a red bend sinister, for Frey), and the cadet branch houses Oldflowers (ten white hands on a green field and a red bend sinister, for Gardner), Vikary (quartered with a white lion on red crossed by a gold bend sinister, for Reyne), and Bolling (quartered with a gold stag on a black field and an orange bend sinister, for Durrandon). The other illegitimate children whose sigils are described are variations on a family sigil without the inverse colors (Aegor Rivers, Brynden Rivers) or something completely different (Benedict Justman, Blackshield). Far from being a simple sigil that marks being illegitimate Targaryen, the black-dragon-on-red-field is a symbol of anti-Targaryen defiance that rejects the “bend sinister” marker for a different lineage of dragon (a cat of a different coat, I guess), which makes a lot of sense if you consider the war was due to disgust at the current Targ regime. Daemon technically had the right to use the Targaryen sigil proper since he was legitimized (look at the Velaryon boys), but I’m certain Da3ron would’ve forbid him because that would be “putting him on princely level” never mind that he is a prince as Daena’s son and Yandel knows this; he might’ve actually used a different style of arms before the First Blackfyre that we don’t know of (same with Aegor, who got the black wings on his Pegasus sigil due to House Blackfyre; I headcanon him using a plain blue field during his youth, for the Riverlands), or even the sigil we know of with the bend sinister (which the rebels removed acclaiming Daemon their legitimate king waging war against an illegitimate usurper; also as a Targaryen bastard, Da3ron could’ve had the same sigil as Daemon which the rebels wouldn’t have wanted). But, you seem to be correct that whoever created the sigil put more thought into it than “reversed color scheme is what all illegitimate children do”.

There are two women described as having personal arms: Rhaenyra Targaryen and Barbrey Dustin, ruling ladies with important family connections. The Targaryen sigil is also often personalized to distinguish between brothers and cousins (Aerion, Prince Daeron, Valarr, Maekar all have variations on dragon position, color, borders, number), though usually not for the king or his heir except in civil war conflicts (both Rhaenyra and her brother Aegon II have variations on the Targaryen sigil. Which I guess makes sense why Daemon’s supporters wanted a separate Blackfyre sigil). Daena was also acclaimed queen by some, and according to a GRRM answer wanted to be queen, so it’s possible she had a variation on the Targaryen sigil as personal arms. It’s interesting that the most popular variation on using house sigils is when the person wants to honor their mother’s family: Harras Harlaw (Serrett peacock), Joffrey/Tommen/Myrcella (Lannister lion, which Jon thinks is overly proud), Cleos Frey (Lannister lion), Benfrey Frey (Rosby chevronnels), both Big and Little Walder (who quarter the Frey castles with sigils of their mother’s and grandmother’s families), and Harry Hardyng (quartering the diamonds of Hardyng with 2 Falcons for his Arryn grandmother and 1 broken wheel for his Waynwood mother) all incorporate their mother’s/grandmother’s family sigils to show their high lineage. Even Rhaenyra Targaryen quartered her two red dragons with the Arryn falcon for her mother and the silver seahorse for her first husband. It’s entirely possible Daena, famous for wearing black during her youth and twice uncrowned, incorporated a black dragon into her personal arms (though I like to think she also incorporated the Velaryon seahorse for her mother’s family, to better differentiate herself from the “usurper branch” of Viserys II), and Daemon accepted the nickname “the Black Dragon” partly to honor her (the connection between them wearing black was one of my earliest hc posts). That Daemon’s descent from Daena is emphasized in the same sentence as his supporters creating the black-dragon-on-red-field banner could be seen as connecting the reversal of “traditional Targ arms” to her, as being “Targaryen on both sides” was used at least in Rhaenyra’s case as a mark of better legitimacy. Tl;dr if you want to say that Daemon’s battle sigil is a black dragon to honor Daena, there’s enough symbolic connections considering other examples of personal/illegitimate arms to make that argument, especially for a fanfic.

I hope you have a good rest of your day. My askbox is always open if you have more questions, though response time may be slow.

#ask #asoiaf #house blackfyre #daemon blackfyre #daena targaryen #sigils #asoiaf headcanon #long post

[horizon-verizon]

TG be like “we don’t care about bloodlines, nobody won the war, but Aemond’s bastard founded House Whent, the Stark children are Aemond’s descendants via Catelyn’s mother, and Daenaera should be replaced by Jaehaera and become the Blackfyres’ ancestor.”

You don’t get to spew endless vitriol about children born outside of marriage and write how they shouldn’t have any rights, and then claim that Jaehaera should be Daemon Blackfyre’s grandmother.

You don’t get to say the most misogynistic, heinous and disgusting things about women having sex outside marriage and call them “sluts”, “whores”, “spoiled” and then claim that Jaehaera should be Elaena’s and Daena’s mother.

And imagine if Jaehaera was Daena’s mother, Daena must DEEPLY despise her if she admired Daemon and named her son after the man who traumatized her mother, ordered the murder of her twin brother, and drove Daena’s grandmother to madness & suicide. (To be clear, I FULLY support Blood & Cheese, they were just anti-monarchists working class men trying to feed their children #team smallfolk).

Absolutely yes to all of this. Unless it was dry sarcasm, I don't know about the very last sentence. Pretty sure it was, but just in case for others: Lower classed men don't have to sell out their morals or integrity by murdering under-10s (not that 10 and ups aren't kids but we should understand what I mean) and to feed their families. If they are at war, the same holds true that killing children is a heinous act.

Even if they are the psychologically degraded and fearful, Unsullied would never/most likely never choose to participate in much of the violence they have been forced into doing--while being dehumanized since literal childhood--such things if their very lives and body parts weren't on the line from the moment they were socially objectified through chattel slavery. The Unsullied are a part of a systematic institution of politics and official kidnappings of children for the express purpose of protecting slavers' interests and the slavers broke them down into being on their fear instinct for years, again, since childhood. They were forced to kill animals they raised themselves until they killed actual slave infants or be subjected to inhumane murders themselves.

Blood was a freaking goldcloak who beat a woman to death. Overall, Blood and Cheese were not chattel slaves. They were not under terrible duress to accept this mission, and they went out of their ways to become assassins. Essentially, they had some level of choice and they decided to use non-discriminating murder for hire as their profession, or make it a part of their "skill set".

Anyway, the double standards many in both the asoiaf and hotd fandoms towards some motivations of villains versus morally grey or morally positive characters is astounding. This series was made to be read by the American public, and I mean though I'm sure GRRM doesn't care if black/Hindi/trans people read and enjoy his books (might even be grateful for it for his liberal views) and like most places in the world where Europeans fucked people shit up to placed racial and EU class hierarchies/ideologies make for idiot bigots with strong double standards. and tbh, GRRM sorta still encourages it by giving up his material to incompetent, bigoted, condescending writers, not really going in through his story in a more feminist and anti-SA lens, AND not clearing shit up against racists, misogynists, etc strategically.

#asoiaf asks to me #blood and cheese #fire and blood #hotd fandom #fandom critical

[catofadifferentcolor]

Terrible Fic Idea #53: House of the Dragon, but make it Quasi-Salic

Everything about the Great Council of 101 AC sets Westeros up for a future Dance of Dragons - and always would have, regardless of the outcome. There's no way around that. Rhaenys was the only child of Jaehaerys I's oldest son, Aemon. Viserys I was the oldest son of the king's second son, Baelon. The choice of Viserys I as king goes against every tradition of the Seven Kingdoms save chauvinism - and sets the stage for a thousand future wars of succession.

But the other frontrunner in the Council was not Rhaenys: it was her son, Laenor. Had the Council chosen him, it would have set a precedent among the Targaryens for Quasi-Salic inheritance - and, likely enough, lead to the exact same situation we find ourselves in in HotD.

Or: What if Laenor Velaryon had acceded to the Iron Throne after the death of Jaehaerys I?

Bear with me:

Quasi-Salic inheritance excludes females from the line of inheritance, but allows their male children to inherit their claim.

In HotD, this would mean that inheritance would pass through all of Prince Aemon's male descendants before Prince Baelon's claim could be considered. Princess Rhaenys would still be excluded, but her son Laenor would inherit her claim.

Until Laenor had a male heir, next in line of succession would be Viserys I, his male heirs, Prince Daemon, his male heirs, &c.

Under this law, none of Laenor, Viserys I, or Daemon's daughters could hold the throne in their own right, which seems in accordance with Andal thinking.

Just imagine it:

Laenor becomes king following Jaehaerys I's death in 103. He is nine years old. His mother, Princess Rhaenys, is regent - but Otto Hightower remains Hand of the King, in part to retain a sense of continuity in the realm, in part because he's actually good at his job.

Meanwhile, Prince Viserys is either given the lands along the Blackwater Rush (that would, in a different future, be given to Daemon I Blackfyre) or a minor role at court. His need for male heirs is not as pressing as in canon, but still kills his wife and leaves him only with a single living child, his daughter Rhaenyra.

Once her son is old enough, Princess Rhaenys needs to find Laenor a Valyrian bride so that he can produce heirs as soon as possible. While pairing him with his sister Laena is attractive, that does nothing to mend the fences broken by the Great Council. And so Laenor and Rhaenyra wed for much the same reasons they do in canon - albeit at few years earlier.

Until they produce a son, Viserys is still next in line to the throne and without any male heirs of his own. This changes after he marries Alicent Hightower - again, for much the same reasons in canon (because Otto may be good at his job, but he's also in it for himself, as are most people who rise to become Hand; Viserys is still the best groom he can get for his daughter by medieval standards) - who births three sons and a daughter in short order.

Problems start when Rhaenyra gives birth to a son - Jace, who looks nothing like his father - and continues with the births of Luke and Joffery. Bastards, everyone whispers.

Things get worse with the birth of her younger children - Aegon, Viserys, and Visenya - for while they look the image of Valyrian royalty, many assume they're actually the children of her uncle and goodbrother, Prince Daemon, who is seen more often in Rhaenyra's company than her husband.

Though Laenor maintains Rhaenyra's children are his, there are many who begin looking towards Viserys to succeed him.

Then in 129 AC, two things happen: Laenor Valeryon and Viserys Targaryen both die - perhaps in the same hunting mishap, perhaps from an illness that sweeps through the Crownlands.

Jacaerys is crowned king...

...and the people rebel.

There are a variety of reasons why people would not be happy with the king's legally recognized heir succeeding him, ranging from 1) not wanting a bastard on the throne to 2) not wanting someone partial to Daemon - and inclined to take his advice - on the throne to 3) genuinely disliking the policies implemented during Laenor's reign and hoping for a return to the good times under a Targaryen king to 4) wanting to use the chaos as a ladder for their own advancement. Like the canon Dance of Dragons, it's a complicated intersection of social, political, religious, and economic issues at play.

And that's really all I have - the same players, the same game, just a slightly different board. The actual outcome of this Dance and how it comes about is entirely dealer's choice, but the takeaway should be that these characters were always doomed by their circumstances to a war they could possibly stop if they tried - only to see it play out in the next generation or the next, until war has wiped out all alternative contenders.

Bonuses include: 1) Laenor being a doting father and a sweetheart of a human being, but a disappointment as a king. He is indecisive, generous, friendly, easily swayed by his friends, and - ultimately - not strong enough to stand on his own in the cutthroat world of Westerosi politics; 2) Less concentration being given to the people in power than the children who will succeed them: Jace, Aegon II, and their respective siblings. The focus should be their bright childhoods and friendships being destroyed by the realities of their positions, which are entirely out of their control; and 3) In keeping with previous, a childlike wonder at Westeros and the glittering court at the Red Keep that slowly turns dark and heavy with the burden of adult expectations and inherited sins placed on young shoulders. The fracturing of a storybook, safe world into the nightmare that Westerosi politics actually is. Or: coming of age in the Seven Kingdoms.

As I said, that's all I really have. As always, feel free to adopt this bun, just link back if you do anything with it.

More Terrible Fic Ideas

#plot bunny #fic ideas #house of the dragon #hotd #laenor velaryon #rhaenyra x laenor #viserys i targaryen #rhaenyra targaryen #rhaenys velaryon #dance of the dragons #jacaerys velaryon #aegon ii targaryen #alicent hightower #otto hightower #no one is perfect

[istumpysk]

Operation Stumpy Re-Read

ADWD: The Lost Lord (Jon Connington I) [Chapter 24]

Warning, more fAegon vs. Aegon VI analysis to come.

Had they lost Haldon as they had Tyrion Lannister? Could the Volantenes have taken him? I should have sent Duckfield with him. Haldon alone could not be trusted; he had proved that in Selhorys when he let the dwarf escape.

x

I should have gone myself. After Selhorys, he had found it difficult to put the same trust in Haldon as previously. He let the dwarf beguile him with that glib tongue of his. Let him wander off into a whorehouse alone while he lingered like a mooncalf in the square.

Imagine tanking your own credibility so Tyrion can get laid.

+.+.+

Daenerys Targaryen remained a world away, and Tyrion Lannister … well, he could be most anywhere. If the gods were good, Lannister's severed head was halfway back to King's Landing by now, but more like the dwarf was hale and whole and somewhere close, stinking drunk and plotting some new infamy.

I love Jon Connington?

+.+.+

"Where in the seven hells is Haldon?" Griff complained to Lady Lemore. "How long should it take to buy three horses?"

He starts calling himself Jon Connington after the Golden Company decide to take Westeros.

What's funny about that is if you hop on over to asearchoficeandfire, you'll see he almost exclusively refers to himself as Jon Connington (full name) in his own internal monologue. Who does that? Lol.

+.+.+

Griff had no patience for this quibbling. He was sick of hiding, sick of waiting, sick of caution. I do not have time enough for caution.

Almost like he's terminal or something.

+.+.+

"If Harry Strickland means him ill, hiding him on the Shy Maid will not protect him. Strickland has ten thousand swords at his command. We have Duck. Aegon is all that could be wanted in a prince. They need to see that, Strickland and the rest. These are his own men."

"His because they're bought and paid for. Ten thousand armed strangers, plus hangers-on and camp followers. All it takes is one to bring us all to ruin. If Hugor's head was worth a lord's honors, how much will Cersei Lannister pay for the rightful heir to the Iron Throne? You do not know these men, my lord. It has been a dozen years since you last rode with the Golden Company, and your old friend is dead."

I could be wrong, but if Lemore was a descendent of House Blackfyre, I'm not sure she'd be this concerned over the Golden Company's loyalty.

+.+.+

Whatever their sires or their grandsires might have been back in Westeros before their exile, the men of the Golden Company were sellswords now, and no sellsword could be trusted.

After the last chapter, I desperately want this to be a nod to Daario.

+.+.+

Last night he'd dreamt of Stoney Sept again. Alone, with sword in hand, he ran from house to house, smashing down doors, racing up stairs, leaping from roof to roof, as his ears rang to the sound of distant bells. Deep bronze booms and silver chiming pounded through his skull, a maddening cacophony of noise that grew ever louder until it seemed as if his head would explode.

Seventeen years had come and gone since the Battle of the Bells, yet the sound of bells ringing still tied a knot in his guts.

Imagine how much therapy the survivors of King's Landing will need.

+.+.+

Others might claim that the realm was lost when Prince Rhaegar fell to Robert's warhammer on the Trident, but the Battle of the Trident would never have been fought if the griffin had only slain the stag there in Stoney Sept.

Why is that?

Are Jon Arryn, Ned Stark, Hoster Tully, and Stannis Baratheon going home after Robert dies? The rebellion was not about crowning Robert.

+.+.+

The bells tolled for all of us that day. For Aerys and his queen, for Elia of Dorne and her little daughter, for every true man and honest woman in the Seven Kingdoms. And for my silver prince.

I hate Jon Connington.

+.+.+

"Illyrio could not have been expected to know that the girl would choose to remain at Slaver's Bay."

"No more than he knew that the Beggar King would die young, or that Khal Drogo would follow him into the grave. Very little of what the fat man has anticipated has come to pass." Griff slapped the hilt of his longsword with a gloved hand. "I have danced to the fat man's pipes for years, Lemore. What has it availed us? The prince is a man grown. His time is—"

Lots of frustration directed at Illyrio in this chapter. Not sure where it's going.

No more than he knew that the Beggar King would die young, or that Khal Drogo would follow him into the grave.

I don't understand. We'll talk about it later.

+.+.+

He had grown fond of Lemore, but that did not mean he required her approval. Her task had been to instruct the prince in the doctrines of the Faith, and she had done that. No amount of prayer would put him on the Iron Throne, however. That was Griff's task. He had failed Prince Rhaegar once. He would not fail his son, not whilst life remained in his body.

When he says stuff like that, I lean towards Cersei holding King's Landing.

+.+.+

The brothel keeper had insisted that the little man had been carried off at swordpoint, but Griff was still not sure he believed that. The Imp was clever enough to have conspired in his own escape. This drunken captor that the whores spoke of could have been some henchman in his hire. I share the blame. After the dwarf put himself between Aegon and the stone man, I let down my guard. I should have slit his throat the first time I laid eyes on him.

I love Jon Connington?

Jon Connington wishing Tyrion was dead (twice!) is how you know Tyrion Lannister and his queen are going to become a big problem for Jon Connington.

+.+.+

The prince wore sword and dagger, black boots polished to a high sheen, a black cloak lined with blood-red silk. With his hair washed and cut and freshly dyed a deep, dark blue, his eyes looked blue as well. At his throat he wore three huge square-cut rubies on a chain of black iron, a gift from Magister Illyrio. Red and black. Dragon colors. That was good.

That's considered fAegon evidence.

He's wearing a ruby around his throat like glamorized Melisandre. Of course it's also a very Targaryen thing to do.

+.+.+

Griff would be glad to go back to his own true colors too, though his once red hair had gone to grey. 

Unreliable narrator. . . George R. R. Martin?

Though his hair was as blue as his son's, he had red roots and redder eyebrows. - Tyrion III, ADWD

+.+.+

"I like the sound of that. My army." A smile flashed across his face, then vanished. "Are they, though? They're sellswords. Yollo warned me to trust no one."

[...]

"Not every man is what he seems, and a prince especially has good cause to be wary … but go too far down that road, and the mistrust can poison you, make you sour and fearful." King Aerys was one such. By the end, even Rhaegar saw that plain enough. 

+.+.+

They found the Golden Company beside the river as the sun was lowering in the west. It was a camp that even Arthur Dayne might have approved of—compact, orderly, defensible. A deep ditch had been dug around it, with sharpened stakes inside. The tents stood in rows, with broad avenues between them. The latrines had been placed beside the river, so the current would wash away the wastes. The horse lines were to the north, and beyond them, two dozen elephants grazed beside the water, pulling up reeds with their trunks. Griff glanced at the great grey beasts with approval. There is not a warhorse in all of Westeros that will stand against them.

You might be forgetting a special type of horse.

+.+.+

Tall battle standards of cloth-of-gold flapped atop lofty poles along the perimeters of the camp. 

Similar language:

A cloth dragon swayed on poles amidst a cheering crowd. - Daenerys IV, ACOK

Sorry, I'm still convinced it's her own banners.

+.+.+

The men of the Golden Company were outside their tents, dicing, drinking, and swatting away flies. Griff wondered how many of them knew who he was. Few enough. Twelve years is a long time.

That's considered fAegon evidence, but I'm not sure why.

Aegon was likely born in 282, he's currently 18 years old. The Sack of King's Landing was 283.

Aegon's first 5 years after the Sack are unaccounted for, but we can assume he was with Illyrio. That's not terribly suspicious. We already know they spent time together, he knows the kid's favourite candy.

+.+.+

So far as most of them were concerned, Connington had drunk himself to death in Lys after being driven from the company in disgrace for stealing from the war chest. The shame of the lie still stuck in his craw, but Varys had insisted it was necessary. "We want no songs about the gallant exile," the eunuch had tittered, in that mincing voice of his. "Those who die heroic deaths are long remembered, thieves and drunks and cravens soon forgotten."

What does a eunuch know of a man's honor? Griff had gone along with the Spider's scheme for the boy's sake, but that did not mean he liked it any better. Let me live long enough to see the boy sit the Iron Throne, and Varys will pay for that slight and so much more. Then we'll see who's soon forgotten.

Wait, what? Why is he that spiteful towards Varys? Varys is the only reason Aegon could sit the Iron Throne with Jon Connington by his side.

Maybe he blames Varys for Aerys turning on him.

+.+.+

All the skulls were grinning, even Bittersteel's on the tall pike in the center. What does he have to grin about? He died defeated and alone, a broken man in an alien land. On his deathbed, Ser Aegor Rivers had famously commanded his men to boil the flesh from his skull, dip it in gold, and carry it before them when they crossed the sea to retake Westeros. His successors had followed his example.

Better than being a rock.

He's in love with Rhaegar, I'm supposed to make fun of him.

+.+.+

Some of the sellsword captains bore bastard names, as Flowers did: Rivers, Hill, Stone. Others claimed names that had once loomed large in the histories of the Seven Kingdoms; Griff counted two Strongs, three Peakes, a Mudd, a Mandrake, a Lothston, a pair of Coles. Not all were genuine, he knew. In the free companies, a man could call himself whatever he chose. 

That's considered fAegon evidence.

+.+.+

The spymaster was new to Griff, a Lyseni named Lysono Maar, with lilac eyes and white-gold hair and lips that would have been the envy of a whore. 

That's considered fAegon evidence.

+.+.+

Ghosts and liars, Griff thought, as he surveyed their faces. Revenants from forgotten wars, lost causes, failed rebellions, a brotherhood of the failed and the fallen, the disgraced and the disinherited. This is my army. This is our best hope.

He turned to Harry Strickland.

Homeless Harry looked little like a warrior. Portly, with a big round head, mild grey eyes, and thinning hair that he brushed sideways to conceal a bald spot, Strickland sat in a camp chair soaking his feet in a tub of salt water. "You will pardon me if I do not rise," he said by way of greeting. "Our march was wearisome, and my toes are prone to blisters. It is a curse."

It is a mark of weakness. You sound like an old woman. The Stricklands had been part of the Golden Company since its founding, Harry's great-grandsire having lost his lands when he rose with the Black Dragon during the first Blackfyre Rebellion. "Gold for four generations," Harry would boast, as if four generations of exile and defeat were something to take pride in.

[...]

Strickland beckoned to his squire. "Watkyn, wine for our friends."

"Thank you, but no," said Griff. "We will drink water."

This is like being in Stannis Baratheon's head.

+.+.+

Does he know? Griff wondered. How much did Myles tell him? Varys had been adamant about the need for secrecy. The plans that he and Illyrio had made with Blackheart had been known to them alone. The rest of the company had been left ignorant. What they did not know they could not let slip.

That time was done, though. "No man could have asked for a worthier son," Griff said, "but the lad is not of my blood, and his name is not Griff. My lords, I give you Aegon Targaryen, firstborn son of Rhaegar, Prince of Dragonstone, by Princess Elia of Dorne … soon, with your help, to be Aegon, the Sixth of His Name, King of Andals, the Rhoynar, and the First Men, and Lord of the Seven Kingdoms."

Silence greeted his announcement. Someone cleared his throat. One of the Coles refilled his wine cup from the flagon. Gorys Edoryen played with one of his corkscrew ringlets and murmured something in a tongue Griff did not know. Laswell Peake coughed, Mandrake and Lothston exchanged a glance. They know, Griff realized then. They have known all along. He turned to look at Harry Strickland. "When did you tell them?"

The captain-general wriggled his blistered toes in his footbath. "When we reached the river. The company was restless, with good reason. We walked away from an easy campaign in the Disputed Lands, and for what? So we could swelter in this god-awful heat watching our coins melt away and our blades go to rust whilst I turn away rich contracts?"

Well, that was a little underwhelming. Let's hope that's not a sign of things to come.

I'm not sure whether I should be questioning how Harry Strickland knew.

+.+.+

"In Meereen." Strickland beckoned to his squire. "Watkyn, a towel. This water's growing cool, and my toes have wrinkled up like raisins. No, not that towel, the soft one."

[...]

Harry winced as his squire toweled his feet. "Gentle with the toes. Think of them as thin-skinned grapes, lad. You want to dry them without crushing them. Pat, do not scrub. Yes, like that."

I've fallen in love with the diva because he irritates Jon Connington.

+.+.+

We came to raise up a king and queen who would lead us home to Westeros, but this Targaryen girl seems more intent on planting olive trees than in reclaiming her father's throne. 

She's confused. Daario will straighten her out. The trees will burn.

+.+.+

"How much will they avail her when all these armies close about her city like a fist?"

Tristan Rivers drummed his fingers on his knee. "All the more reason that we must reach her quickly, I say. If Daenerys will not come to us, we must go to Daenerys."

People who argue the Golden Company would never support a Targaryen are so weird.

We need the girl. We need the marriage. If Daenerys accepts our princeling and takes him for her consort, the Seven Kingdoms will do the same. 

They're trying to seat Daenerys upon the throne. Daenerys of House Targaryen. Aegon would be her consort. Hello?

+.+.+

Homeless Harry Strickland paused with his blistered foot in hand. "Let me remind you, it was Myles Toyne who put his seal to this secret pact, not me. I would honor his agreement if I could, but how? It seems plain to me that the Targaryen girl is never coming west. Westeros was her father's kingdom. Meereen is hers. If she can break the Yunkai'i, she'll be Queen of Slaver's Bay. If not, she'll die long before we could hope to reach her."

George is doing everything he can to confuse me right now.

The secret pact was between Myles Toyne, Connington, Illyrio, and Varys. Yes? Yes.

They planned to crown Aegon VI Targaryen. Daenerys was never part of this pact. Yes? Yes.

+.+.+

And then Prince Aegon spoke. "Then put your hopes on me," he said. "Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar's sister, but I am Rhaegar's son. I am the only dragon that you need."

Griff put a black-gloved hand upon Prince Aegon's shoulder. "Spoken boldly," he said, "but think what you are saying."

"I have," the lad insisted. "Why should I go running to my aunt as if I were a beggar? My claim is better than her own. Let her come to me … in Westeros."

Tyrion's words.

'Good morrow to you, Auntie. I am your nephew, Aegon, returned from the dead. I've been hiding on a poleboat all my life, but now I've washed the blue dye from my hair and I'd like a dragon, please … and oh, did I mention, my claim to the Iron Throne is stronger than your own?' - Tyrion VI, ADWD

Basically everything that's going to happen is Tyrion's fault.

+.+.+

The captain-general looked as if someone had slapped his face. "Has the sun curdled your brains, Flowers? We need the girl. We need the marriage. If Daenerys accepts our princeling and takes him for her consort, the Seven Kingdoms will do the same. Without her, the lords will only mock his claim and brand him a fraud and a pretender. And how do you propose to get to Westeros? You heard Lysono. There are no ships to be had."

Let the debates begin!

I think I know what Daenerys will believe.

+.+.+

"By now the lion surely has the dragon's scent," said one of the Coles, "but Cersei's attentions will be fixed upon Meereen and this other queen. She knows nothing of our prince. Once we land and raise our banners, many and more will flock to join us."

lmfao.

Not entirely sure of the timeline, but I'm going to pretend she's preoccupied with Bronn at the moment.

+.+.+

"The first Aegon took Westeros without eunuchs," said Lysono Maar. "Why shouldn't the sixth Aegon do the same?"

"The plan—"

"Which plan?" said Tristan Rivers. "The fat man's plan? The one that changes every time the moon turns? First Viserys Targaryen was to join us with fifty thousand Dothraki screamers at his back. Then the Beggar King was dead, and it was to be the sister, a pliable young child queen who was on her way to Pentos with three new-hatched dragons. Instead the girl turns up on Slaver's Bay and leaves a string of burning cities in her wake, and the fat man decides we should meet her by Volantis. Now that plan is in ruins as well.

Okay, let's talk about this. This was the plan?

Illyrio brokers a marriage between Daenerys and Khal Drogo, so Viserys can unite the Dothraki and Golden Company? And then what? Viserys steps aside, and lets Aegon be king? You can't be serious.

Illyrio's actions in AGOT don't make a ton of sense once you know Aegon is alive (No judgment, he was still figuring out the story), but there were better ways of fixing it I think.

+.+.+

Griff had heard enough of the captain-general's cowardice. "We will not be alone. Dorne will join us, must join us. Prince Aegon is Elia's son as well as Rhaegar's."

"That's so," the boy said, "and who is there left in Westeros to oppose us? A woman."

Oops.

Rest in peace, Aegon VI Targaryen. Opposed by a woman.

+.+.+

"A Lannister woman," insisted the captain-general. "The bitch will have the Kingslayer at her side, count on that, and they will have all the wealth of Casterly Rock behind them. And Illyrio says this boy king is betrothed to the Tyrell girl, which means we must face the power of Highgarden as well."

The bitch will have the Kingslayer at her side. They've hit a rough patch.

They will have all the wealth of Casterly Rock behind them. How much is that?

And Illyrio says this boy king is betrothed to the Tyrell girl, which means we must face the power of Highgarden as well. Yeah, about that.

+.+.+

Laswell Peake rapped his knuckles on the table. "Even after a century, some of us still have friends in the Reach. The power of Highgarden may not be what Mace Tyrell imagines."

I'm not currently prepared to tell you who the friends will be.

All I know is Randyll Tarly is getting his ass lit up, and Mathis Rowan is tired of lions.

+.+.+

Rivers was smiling in approval. Others traded thoughtful looks. Then Peake said, "I would sooner die in Westeros than on the demon road," and Marq Mandrake chuckled and responded, "Me, I'd sooner live, win lands and some great castle," and Franklyn Flowers slapped his sword hilt and said, "So long as I can kill some Fossoways, I'm for it."

Perhaps let's exclude House Fossoway from the friends list.

+.+.+

This is a side of Aegon I never saw before. It was not the prudent course, but he was tired of prudence, sick of secrets, weary of waiting. 

Almost like he's terminal or something.

+.+.+

Win or lose, he would see Griffin's Roost again before he died, and be buried in the tomb beside his father's.

Would you settle for being ash in the wind?

+.+.+

The road ahead was full of perils, he knew, but what of it? All men must die. All he asked was time. He had waited so long, surely the gods would grant him a few more years, enough time to see the boy he'd called a son seated on the Iron Throne. To reclaim his lands, his name, his honor. To still the bells that rang so loudly in his dreams whenever he closed his eyes to sleep.

"surely the gods" = it's not going to happen.

+.+.+

Alone in the tent, as the gold and scarlet rays of the setting sun shone through the open flap, Jon Connington shrugged off his wolfskin cloak, slipped his mail shirt off over his head, settled on a camp stool, and peeled the glove from his right hand. The nail on his middle finger had turned as black as jet, he saw, and the grey had crept up almost to the first knuckle. The tip of his ring finger had begun to darken too, and when he touched it with the point of his dagger, he felt nothing.

Death, he knew, but slow. I still have time. A year. Two years. Five. Some stone men live for ten. Time enough to cross the sea, to see Griffin's Roost again. To end the Usurper's line for good and all, and put Rhaegar's son upon the Iron Throne.

Then Lord Jon Connington could die content.

I know it's his sword hand, but it's not like stone fingers will serve him any better. Chop, chop.

To end the Usurper's line for good and all

I'm sorry, is that Jon Connington daydreaming about killing children? Tsk, tsk.

Lord Jon Connington will not die content.

Final thoughts:

It's like having Jorah Mormont's POV, only he's in love with Rhaegar.

-> return to menu <-

#operation stumpy re-read #adwd #the lost lord #jon connington i

[atopvisenyashill]

A timeline of the ruling princes and princesses of Dorne from Meria Martell’s death to the formal union of Dorne and the rest of the Seven Kingdoms in 187 AC.

Anything marked with a * means it’s a canon date. The rest are speculation and a lot of math on my part. I also made up the names for a few characters as well! Also rip the quality on this but when you click it, it looks better.

More explanation under the cut.

Where I ran into most trouble in trying to figure out this timeline when we have not nearly as much information as we do about literally every other major Great House of Westeros, is the line from Morion the Mad to Qoren Martell. There’s several quick changes in princes during that time and we don’t even know what their relation is to one another in several instances. So I tried working out the timeline in a few different ways - I tried it with Mara Martell, Morion’s heir, as his very young daughter, as a twin sister, as a younger sister, and I finally settled on her being his much older aunt as making the most sense.

I think it makes the most sense because Morion is considered young and yet his father was Prince for a very long time; it doesn’t make sense that a ruling prince would wait so long to have an heir unless in a parallel to Jaehaerys’ later issue, several of his heirs die and leave the line of succession a bit uncertain. So I concluded that Morion’s father, who I named Voren, had several older children that died, likely during the Vulture King’s first war (we know it’s suspected Deria was funding him) so when Voren died, the throne went to his reckless, dumb ass youngest son, Morion. With Morion dying without any children, the throne passes next to Deria’s second child, Mara, and the Nymeros Martell line descends from them. This also makes sense because in canon, Morion was angry that his father didn’t send soldiers to kick the Iron Throne out of the Dornish Marches during Lord Rogar’s War; if Voren had children that had died in a previous conflict, it would make sense that he’d hesitate to get involved again.

Qoren was also a bit tricky. He had to be old enough to fight in the Stepstones War against Daemon, but young enough to not be married yet and be considered a potential match for Rhaenyra two years later. After a lot of wondering how in the hell I make that work, I finally figured - again, similar to Cregan Stark and Jaeherys, that there was a surplus of heirs at this time. Mara would have come into her throne already old with children and grandchildren, and her heir would come into the throne also already old, same as Meria/Nymor/Deria. Makes sense that the prince before Qoren was therefore a grandfather or great-grandfather, and that Qoren’s father never took the Sunspear Throne.

I stopped at the unification of the Seven Kingdoms simply because we get absolutely no information on what was going on in Dorne until Doran’s mother. Apparently, Dorne was real quiet during the Blackfyre Rebellions, hah.

And as for names...

Voren - we have several instances of Dornishmen with names that end in the -en sound. Doran, Oberyn, Llewyn, Yoren, etc. It seems like a common naming quirk, similar to the Northerners being really fond of -on and -ard endings. I thought Voren sounded the most like a real name.

Ellario - We have Elia and Ellaria so I figured there should be a male version of the name. I didn’t want to use Elio, so Ellario was born.

#valyriansource #valyrianscrolls #house martell #house nymeros martell #getting on my soap box #dorne #rani graphics #qoren martell #mara martell #morion the mad #deria martell #meria martell #nymor martell #maron martell #myriah martell #marence martell #qyle martell #aliandra nymeros martell #maron nymeros martell #marence nymeros martell #qyle nymeros martell #aliandra martell #mara nymeros martell #meria nymeros martell #deria nymeros martell #nymor nymeros martell #fuck i think that's everyone

[katrantsasoiaf]

on twitter everyone is losing their mind about the alleged aegon the conqueror prequel and the supposed pitch about aegon being a "drunken lout" or something. but like

even if that was the case, they seemed bothered by the idea of aegon being interesting. like, most of the criticism of a supposed pitch that we have no information about besides one tiny tidbit with zero context. it's merely the idea that aegon i is anything less than "the most disciplined" of the targaryen kings or something. but aegon i is easily the most boring of the aegons in the story because he has no actual personality. i mean this so very genuinely.

aegon ii even with the small amount of characterization that he recieves in fire and blood, at least he had some defining traits and flaws, a character arc, and a downfall. aegon iii as well is a child at the end of fire and blood and got more characterization than the grownass aegon i. aegon iv is a terrible person, but we know so much about him and his actions and his relationships to other characters. aegon v is a main character of the dunk and egg stories.

meanwhile, aegon has no personality.

i saw the description, and being charitable, it could make sense for his character based on his supposed dream in house of the dragon.

mostly because i envision him as prince hal in this pitch. if you don't know, "prince hal" refers to the media critisim of the characterization of young henry v in shakespeare's plays henry iv, in which he is characterized as wayward youth who enjoys the company of petty criminals and wastrels. that is until his ascension in henry v in which he becomes this great warrior king who conquerors the french crown for england during the hundred year war.

basically the plot of netflix's "the king" with timothée chalamet (you know, the movie everyone in this fandom uses to make edits of book!jon snow, and fun fact, dean charles chapman aka tommen and tom glynn-carney aka aegon ii feature in this movie too).

so, i would imagine aegon the conqueror as a youth on dragonstone. his father, aerion, is ruling still and aegon is unmarried. perhaps he is like prince hal, with no real purpose in his life, just living his life up on the island with no responsibilities or burdens.

and then one day, he has his dream. of the white walkers, of the long night, of the prince that was promised. and perhaps it's this horrible dream that causes him to realize that he needs to end his past behavior and begin planning for the future, to prepare for the threat in the north. like how rhaegar found the prophecy and then decided that "it seems i must be a warrior", aegon will decide "it seems i must be a conqueror". and that's when we get him visiting westeros for the first time, ordering the painted table be made, etc.

or perhaps it's because of this dream that for a time he becomes a wastrel. much like his descendant, daeron the drunken who was also burdened with the gift of prophecy, who drank and whored to cope with the trauma of his visions. perhaps, aegon also sought to run from the burden of destiny in wine and ale. until he changed his mind and began his plotting of the conquest. maybe at the behest of his sisters, rhaenys and visenya, to not ignore his dream.

idk, but either of these would have the potential for character development. the idea that his mysterious (aka personality-deprived) characterization in fire and blood was due to a calculated transformation by aegon the conqueror to preserve his own mysticism. that he has not always been this person history views him as, but rather it was someone who he needed to become because he believed that he was required to by destiny.

perhaps i should have prefaced this post with the fact that i hate aegon the conqueror. and a show about the conquest is a terrible idea of a lot of reasons (a blackfyre rebellion show would be much better. honestly who do i have to pay to get a dunk and egg show?)

but this was the weird reason that fans latched onto that derives from the same problem a lot of stans had when hotd came out. which is that most characters in fire and blood are very bare bones, if they have any characterization to begin with. and readers fill in the blanks with their headcanons. but when adapted, the writers had to fill in the gaps themselves, and then fans get made when that doesn't match their headcanons. which to be honest, i do the same.

but until an actual synopsis is dropped, the outrage about aegon the conqueror's character assassination is ridiculous.

you need a character first to assassinate.

#i would be more worried about his sisters #i am convinced hbo doesn't know how to write sisters #they are either bitches to each other for no reason #like season seven sansa and arya #or they never interact #like baela and rhaena #i wouldn't trust grrm either #he was the one who gave aegon i the bias for rhaenys #one night with visenya for every ten with rhaenys #he clearly favored aenys and neglected maegor #aegon the conqueror #not really anti #but to be safe #this was meant to be critical #not anti anything or anyone #i just wanted to share my thoughts #because its all over my timeline #anti aegon the conqueror #aegon i targaryen #visenya targaryen #rhaenys targaryen #game of thrones #asoiaf #valyrianscrolls #house of the dragon #hotd #house targaryen #anti house targaryen #just to be safe

[queenaryastark]

“If you want to conquer the world, you best have dragons.”

-- Aegon VI Targaryen in ADWD, idolizing his dragon flying, conquering ancestors. Regardless of whether he is the son of Rhaegar and Elia or a Blackfyre contender, Aegon is descended from Aegon the Conqueror and, like the majority of the characters, idolized what he and his wives accomplished. He's literally trying to replicate their success by also trying to conquer Westeros. Also,

And then Prince Aegon spoke. “Then put your hopes on me,” he said. “Daenerys is Prince Rhaegar’s sister, but I am Rhaegar’s son. I am the only dragon that you need.”

--Aegon VI Targaryen in ADWD tying his identity to dragons rather than the sun and naming Rhaegar as his father while never mentioning Elia (the fabricated Tyroshi mother is not Elia). Trying to divorce Aegon from his desire to embody House Targaryen is to divorce him from 100% of what little characterization he has.

I do believe that the wishes "theories" about him going crazy and being disposed of aren't grounded in much, but there is far, far less evidence of him hating Targaryens or caring about what the Valyrians did to the Rhoynar. He is currently trying to prove that he is a scion of House Targaryen who is worthy of standing as Dany's equal so they can marry and he can get a dragon. To do that, he's contributing to the war in Westeros in the hopes that Dany will hear about him and join him.

#aegon vi targaryen #daenerys targaryen #house targaryen #asoiaf

[asoiafandotherbooks]

TWOIAF/Fire & Blood: Aegon Sulks, Rhaena Gives Birth, Maegor's Builds, And Tyanna Whispers

Warning, Spoilers Ahead…

Maegor had made himself king, decimated the Faith, and taken a third wife.

Aegon, the former heir presumptive, has remained in Casterly Rock with Rhaena, his pregnant wife.

Almost everyone who accompanied the duo on their progress has abandoned them to swear fealty to Maegor, The only one to remain was Alayne Royce, Melony Piper, a former favorite of Rhaena, has arrived at Lannisport with her brothers to swear the loyalty of House Piper to Aegon.

Aegon is in a mood. He can’t grasp how his life went so wrong. One day he is the heir apparent, beloved of the smallfolk. The next day he is reviled by the Faith and abandoned by his friends and supporters.

Maegor’s supporters claimed Aegon was as weak as his father (Aenys). He’s not even a dragonrider! Aegon was referred to as the “Pretender” or “Aegon the Uncrowned”.

I can understand why no one is jumping up to support Aegon. First, Aenys was weak. There is nothing to suggest Aegon would be any different – he grew up pampered – how is he going to fight this war? Second, the Faith – which is dominant in the South – has radicalized the population against the Targaryens. Not many would risk their souls in a time era with heavy religious overtones. Third, Maegor has Balerion and Vhagar! Aegon’s side only has Dreamfyre, a rather young dragon. There is still a sizable population that were alive during the Conquest – they remember what those dragons are capable of! Maegor had demonstrated that he has no issue with unleashing Balerion. I don’t blame anyone for saying “no thank you” when it comes to this fight.

Lyman Lannister, the Lord of Casterly Rock, remained firm in his refusal to return Aegon and Rhaena to King’s Landing but refused to pledge his sword to Aegon.

I respect Lyman. It takes courage to tell Maegor the Cruel “no, I won’t be returning Aegon and Rhaena to King’s Landing”. Yes, Lyman has Casterly Rock and, yes, Visenya thought it might be difficult to take it but difficult is not impossible. Lyman is taking a risk that Balerion and Vhagar won’t show up at the Rock and perform a Harrenhal, part 2. Lyman is wise in not pledging his forces to Aegon’s cause. It has only been 40 or so years since the Field of Fire – Lyman must have heard the story from his father or grandfather of what occurred that day. The Westerlands have first -hand experience with the power of Balerion and Vhagar.

Rhaena gave birth to twin daughters at Casterly Rock, named Aerea and Rhaella. The High Septon wasted no time declaring the twins “abominations, fruits of lust and incense, accursed of the gods”.

Rhaena begged Aegon to take their family across the Narrow Sea to “Tyrosh or Myr or Volantis” for “I would gladly give up my own life to make you king, but I will not put our girls at risk”.

This is an interesting “What If?”. How would history have been changed if Aegon, Rhaena, and the twins fled across the Narrow Sea? Would Maegor have pursued the family? Would the family have become an early era Blackfyres with their descendants leading invasions and rebellions? The family would only have one dragon – would Dreamfyre have hatched eggs at any point?

Helaena Targaryen would have bonded with another dragon in this scenario. Aerea wouldn’t have died a horrific death. Rhaena’s life would have been so different – she would have been spared the numerous tragedies that made her so bitter and spiteful in her later life.

Another possible what if – what if Aegon and Rhaena had returned to King’s Landing? Maegor hadn’t committed any kinslaying yet. He remains childless. Aegon would be his heir as he is the next available Targaryen heir. Would Aegon have succeeded Maegor? Or would Aegon’s death only be delayed as Maegor becomes desperate to sire an heir? Rhaena is the only full-blooded Targaryen female of child-bearing years. Visenya is too old, Alysanne too young. Maegor might have executed Aegon to wed Rhaena.

The beginning of 43 AC found Maegor in King’s Landing, where he has taken charge of the construction of the Red’s Keep. The king ordered secrest passages and tunnels designed throughout the Keep and had a castle built within the castle, surrounded by a dry moat that would become known as Maegor’s Holdfast.

Maegor appointed Lord Lucas Harroway (Alys’ father) as the new Hand of the King. Men whispered that Maegor was ruled by three queens: Visenya, Alys, and Tyanna of the Tower. Tyanna was not loved by the populace – they referred to her as the “mistress of whisperers” or the “king’s raven”. It was said the vermin of King’s Landing (rats and spiders) came to her to tell of men speaking against the king.

Tyanna would be the first “Master of Whispers”. Did Maegor create the position? Did Jaehaereys, based off of Tyana’s success, institute the role as part of the Small Council?

Up next, the Faith hasn’t learned their lesson and decide to wake the dragon – again!

#asoiaf #game of thrones #house targaryen #aegon the uncrowned #aegon targaryen #maegor targaryen #rhaena targaryen #maegor the cruel #aerea targaryen #rhaella targaryen #high septon #tyanna of the tower #lucas harroway #lyman lannister #alayne royce #melony piper #house lannister #casterly rock #red keep #maegor's holdfast #balerion #dreamfyre #vhagar #twoiaf

[sarcasticsweetlara]

Laena Velaryon

Credits to @alaynasansa

For all of those who have said Aegon the Younger and Viserys II would not care about Laena Velaryon, let me tell you that they would.

Here is why: Even if they never met her, they would hear stories from Baela and Rhaena about their own mother, how the daughter of Rhaenys The Queen Who Should Have Been, was friends with Rhaenyra and supported her despite the fact they could have been rivals for the throne, as before the Great Council, the conflict was between Rhaenys and her uncle Baelon, and Laena was born amidst all the chaos.

Laena had royal blood and a claim to the Iron Throne and she supported her dear cousin Rhaenyra.

The show has done a lousy job portraying their relationship, but at least they hinted Rhaenyra and Laena got along and that Laena always was leal to her and wanted to see her ascend as queen.

There is also the fact that the book hinted there was a possible romantic relationship between them, Rhaenyra would have talked about the woman who was there by her side and that did not abandon nor judged her, unlike Alicent.

Laena was the mother of Baela and Rhaena, Aegon the Younger and Viserys' beloved sisters, the people who always protected them, Rhaena and Viserys II were similar in that their original dragon eggs never hatched, and imagine Viserys' thrill at flying with his sister, and how she probably told him her own mother took her flying.

Laena was Daemon's first cousin once removed and Rhaenyra's second cousin, the link between their Targaryen branch with the Velaryon branch of Corlys and Rhaenys', the reason why Corlys and Rhaenys chose to support Rhaenyra, and her memory alongside the daughters of Laena brought them back, honoring Laena's loyalty to Rhaenyra.

Aegon III and Viserys II must have heard Laena was the rider of Vhagar before their dreadful uncle (sorry Aemond, but it's the truth), and look how different the perspectives would be for them, that with Laena, Vhagar was a symbol of the hearth and fruitfulness but with Aemond Vhagar only meant destruction; surely they would prefer their aunt (second cousin once removed).

Laena's friendship and love for Rhaenyra was what ensures the loyalty of House Velaryon to the Blacks, and her memory and her descendants was what brought them back.

Rhaenyra's descendants became kings and queens, and Laena's descendants were powerful allies that supported House Targaryen.

Rhaena's descendants must have married into the marcher houses of the Reach and also married the Lords of the High Tower many times, as we see Alerie (Rhaena's descendant) has silver hair.

Rhaena, the daughter of Aegon and Daenaera was probably the one who reconciled House Velaryon with House Targaryen after Elaena's involvement with Alyn, and even after what happened House Velaryon kept being an ally of the Targaryens and even if not many Targaryen-Velaryon marriages happened after that (Aelinor, Vaella and Maegor could have been wed to Velaryons after being discarded as heirs) they were still bound by blood and history.

House Velaryon helped Daeron the Young Dragon in the Conquest of Dorne, and House Hightower remaining a steadfast Targaryen ally in all the Blackfyre rebellions.

So you see, Aegon III and Viserys II did have reasons to care and admire Laena Velaryon, what are your excuses for saying they did not?

Laena's blood is still alive through her daughters, in House Velaryon, House Hightower and many other houses, and they still hold privilege and power.

#house targaryen #house of the dragon #the old the true the brave #house velaryon #salt courses through velaryon blood #the blood of the dragon runs thick #rhaenyra x laena x daemon #laena velaryon #baela targaryen #rhaena targaryen #aegon the younger #aegon the unlucky #aegon iii targaryen #viserys ii targaryen #rhaenys the queen who never was #corlys the sea snake #rhaenyra targaryen #daemon targaryen #hotd #hotd analysis #Laena Velaryon (daughter of Corlys and Rhaenys) #rhaena targaryen (daughter of daemon and laena) #rhaena the last dragonrider