#a Cressida Cowell theory!!

[companion-of-the-dragonmark]

Outlawry and the Outcast Lands (HTTYD Books)

(I’m sorry in advance for any blurry map images, but I can only do so much. If you guys have clearer copies of this, please let me know.)

Hello everyone! Today I’ll write another article that I think you’ll find interesting. I know I haven’t written an article for the Books in, like, a very long time, but now I’ve got myself a topic to talk about. 

As you know, Outlawry and Outcasts are among the main antagonists and themes in the Books. That being said, and in spite of it, there isn’t really a whole lot of info concerning this, aside from the few hints, theories, and mentions we get from it.

In the Books, Outlawry and Piracy kinda go hand-in-hand, though they’re not exactly the same thing. 

In the Viking Age, there was a complicated yet integral system in Viking society called “Outlawry”. For minor crimes — stealing, injuring, insulting someone’s honor, perjury, non-violent treason (disobeying orders and the like), etc, or if the person exiled himself — they sentenced a person to “Lesser Outlawry”.

Lesser Outlaws had safe zones to live in for up to 3 years, and their family and friends could give them supplies and support if needed. His family could even join him if they so wished. However, if the person ever stepped out of these safe zones for whatever reason, it was fair game if somebody killed him, since he is technically an outlaw, and the killer was exempt from any punishment since the outlaw stepped out of the sanctioned safe zones.

“Greater Outlawry” was when a man or woman committed the following major crimes: assault, rape, manslaughter (accidental or intentional), the harming or killing of a chieftain or lord (or “violent treason”), breaking the terms of the lesser outlawry sentence, and other terrible crimes. If anyone committed these crimes, they were sentenced to “Greater Outlawry”, which was permanent, and could never be revoked once sentenced.

Of course, both in the real world and in this world, it’s natural and essential for outlaws to band together to increase their chances of survival. After all, life as an outlaw wasn’t all sunshine and rainbows, as Hiccup hints at in Book 1, and mentions from time to time in later Books. In fact, such was the stress and isolation of becoming a permanent outlaw — becoming both socially and eventually physically executed — that there are many who commit suicide, unable to handle the drastic change to their circumstances. 

To be an Outlaw was to, bluntly speaking, metaphorically become the participant of the Hunger Games — except that everyone was coming to kill YOU, gaining glory and honor for themselves, and notoriety for you if you won instead.

Because of this, it was common for Outlaws to band together in order to protect themselves. This is probably how the Outcast Tribe came to be after Thugheart failed in his rebellion to claim the Throne of the Wilderwest for himself, bringing with him whomever got banished with him. Perhaps even with their families, if any went at all. Over the years, they grew to become a deadly force, and unfortunately devolved into a nasty, ferocious, and somewhat primitive Viking band known for cannibalism, human sacrifices, and other bad deeds. Of course, upon Alvin’s coronation as the new High Chieftain of the Outcasts 5-15 years before the events of Book 1, he reformed the Outcasts into a bit more sophisticated force and a bit more with the times, but he couldn’t change all of their traditions.

This Tribe consists mostly of descendants of pro-Thugheart rebels who wish for the descendants of Thugheart to reclaim the Throne of the Wilderwest and rule the Tribes (even though the rest of the Archipelago view them as nothing more than a family of Outcasts and dishonorable men).

While the Outcasts of the Wilderwest are the main groups, they’re by far not the only ones out there. The Archipelago has many Outcast warbands, large and small, spread out throughout the many isles that make up the Barbaric Archipelago. That being said, the Wilderwest Outcasts are by far the most populous and dangerous outlaw bands out there due to their organization, history, resolve, and semi-legitimacy. Other outlaw bands are mostly just warbands led by a leader or warlord rather than a legitimate chieftain or ruler. If they do, it’s self-made and far from legitimate.

But Vikings of the Archipelago who wish to sail through these waters must take heed to the potential danger of running into any bands of wandering Outcasts. Some bands are on dragons, others on ships, and still others with a mix of both. The life of a Viking is fraught with danger.

However, this isn’t the only path to becoming an Outcast. Nor is it the only fate of one, either. 

Regardless if you were Outlawed or not, if you have the misfortune and bad luck to run into the Uglithug Slave Ships, you may as well forget ever hoping for freedom again. To become a slave is the same as becoming an Outcast practically. Once they grab hold of you and gift you with the Slavemark, you can never hope to become a Free Viking ever again. (At least until the Dragonmarker Revolution led by Hiccup the Third brought it back into its original symbolic meaning.) 

But if you ever got lucky enough to escape (though few ever do), you would still be treated as if you were an Outcast and probably killed on the spot, or, if you were lucky, become someone else’s slave.

If you got caught by any Roman ships, then you’d meet the same fate and you’d end up becoming a slave or a gladiator for their Games.

Vikings who got banished from their homes as Outcasts would either go to 2 places: The Mainland, where they would have to deal with dragons AND Uglithugs, and try to avoid becoming a slave or just outright killed on the spot — and woe unto them if they got banished during the winter seasons (though anytime was bad when you’re in the Archipelago); and the second is being sent by UG the Uglithug to the Island of Berserk, where they’re imprisoned in the infamous Forest Dungeon until the time comes for their monthly human sacrifices to the Dragon (until, at least, Hiccup came along and spoilt the fun like the party-pooper he is. XD)

However, there was a THIRD option — one that most people probably don’t know about.

Cannibal Isle. The island where starving to death and dealing with dragons was the LEAST of your worries. 

This place was never mentioned in the Books, but you can find this in some maps in Book 1: How To Train Your Dragon and in the Complete Book of Dragons. That being said, it is mentioned in the Books about Vikings being banished having to face dangers such as being beset by cannibals. Book 1 is the most we get about it, but it is interesting to note that he says this. As he says this in lieu of talking about being banished to the Mainland, it might be that Cannibal Isle isn’t the only place where cannibals reside. That being said, we can’t be sure of such things, since Cowell never mentions the place nor about the banishment since it never happens after the Berkian and Meathead Youths’ victory over the Green Death.

I just happened to have seen this on the maps of Book 1 and the Book of Dragons and was very interested and started to wonder if this wasn’t a connection of some sort. If he mentions cannibals, then the other destination they might’ve been sent to other than the Mainland (which, to be honest, is a FAR DISTANCE from Berk) could’ve been Cannibal Isle.

Cannibal Isle might possibly be home to Outcasts who’ve been banished from society and driven to this island, which doesn’t have much in the way of food, and are lucky to get by on plants and fish and whatever they manage to scrounge up. But eventually the hunger drove them mad and caused them to look to man-flesh to sustain their needs. Thus, the island became known as “Cannibal Isle”, and would often be a place to send permanent outlaws to other than the Mainland.

Another area I thought would be an interesting hotspot for pirates, raiders, and outcasts was in the Mazy Multitudes. Only the bravest would enter these waters and make them their base of operations. Other than the weather, the Sharkworms, and the like, they’d also have to contend with the Romans who’ve made their stronghold there on one of the islands.

However, the Mazy Multitudes also make for a great base since not many Vikings would be crazy enough to risk entering the Mazy Multitudes to deal with any Outcasts or Raiders who’ve made themselves at home here, especially since the Romans have made their base here for hundreds of years.

Not only that, but it’s pretty close to several islands, such as Glum, Peaceable Country, Meatheads, Berk, Waterlands, Mystery, Swallow, and others. And much traffic enters near or into these waters, making it a lovely hotspot. Or one of them, at any point. It’s similar to the modern-day water trade routes in Indonesia.

All-in-all, it’s not a bad spot to hang out at -- though, admittedly, there are perhaps more safer areas to establish your base at.

Conclusion:

So there are many paths and many ways that one ends up becoming an Outcast of Viking society when concerning the lore of the Books. And we’ve learned that becoming an Outcast... is not fun’n’games. At all. It’s literally like Hunger Games, but with worse odds and even less support unless you luckily end up in one of the many Outcast bands or form one yourself.

What happens to Outcasts can vary: from going to the Mainland, to becoming a slave, to dying at the hands of Cannibals or some Dragon, to succumbing to the natural and unnatural elements, to getting killed by dragons... the possibilities are ENDLESS.

In fact, there should’ve been a book called “You Wouldn’t Want to be An Outcast in the Barbaric Archipelago”. lol XD (I might actually do a fanfic on this. Who knows?)

I hope you guys had fun reading this and learned a lot. It was definitely fun for me, and I enjoyed thinking up theories concerning Cannibal Isle and the Mazy Multitudes for this article.

Thank you guys for reading! Please reblog to share with others, and I hope to see you in the next article. 

Long Live the Wilderwest!

— Companion of the Dragonmark

#companion-of-the-dragonmark #httyd #httyd books #httyd book articles #httyd book fandom #httyd book theories #httyd book headcanons #outlawry #outcast lands #alvin the treacherous #barbaric archipelago #httyd book series #cressida cowell #httyd book characters #httyd book spoilers #outcasts #outlaws #httyd book lore #httyd book history #pirates #mazy multitudes #cannibal isle #mainland #httyd book locations

[poibynt]

This is a really long-winded work up to a fic idea/vague character analysis BEAR WITH ME.

this'll be the last HTTYD meta post of the night. It's hard to pinpoint when Cowell fully created the later book's storyline (The seeds really start getting planted in 5, but of course 8 kicks things off, but was that the book when she first truly knew? who knows) but it's obvious the end game plot wasn't conceived by the start of the series. Cowell manages to transition from mostly episodic style adventure books to an overarching plot pretty well but there's some occasional wonkyness. The most fascinating weirdness to me is how the earlier books treat dragons and their societal standing.

I am doing a very out of order re-listen rn so I could be very wrong but while dragons are treated as 'creatures to own' from the start the slavery and mistreatment of dragons by humans starts to really become more textual rather than messy implications by like the 3rd and 4th books. But I don't think Cowell knew if she wanted to Unpack All That Right Now just yet when writing those books, so we get this weird ground where the mistreatment of dragons is there and explicit but none of the characters linger or reflect on it. Specifically in book 4 Oneye is all very "y'all are fucking pig slave drivers" and Hiccup doesn't object or anything but does not think about or engage with Oneye's rhetoric at all. This was a tad jarring coming off of listening to Hiccup giving a massive impassioned speech about how slavery is disgusting and needs to be eradicated in 10 to Hiccup meekly telling Snotlout not to whip dragons for fun in 4. Of course, Hiccup is a child and very rarely do elementary schooler age members of the oppressor class fully understand the abusive systems they profit off of (and obviously Hiccup not standing up to Snotlout is a whole other thing bc Snotlout is a horrible little shit. I'm not condemning Hiccup for not doing much here). Hiccup has all the groundwork of becoming the little leftist abolitionist revolutionary he ends up but he isn't there just yet.

This should have been ground for a bit of a character arc. And yet, it sort of wasn't?? Kinda?? It is but isnt. I think by 7 Cressida knew where the series was going enough to know that Hiccup needed to have a personal reconing with slavery & that's what the Northern Wanderers were for. Hiccup has a close brush with human slaves, gets marked as a slave and comes to see their humanity and dignity despite the rest of his friends and his culture not respecting them or their personhood. On paper, that's decent. Maybe not very good indigenous rep, but decent plot wise. However, it doesn't entirely work. Firstly because Hiccup should already know that captial S Slavery is Bad because of 5. That's a large part of 5. And yet I do not remember Hiccup ever really having much dialogue or internal introspection about slavery and the horrors of it & how it has effected Windwalker and those around him. The narration drills in it's awfulness but Hiccup sort of...doesn't super acknowledge it. Which is weird bc Hiccup is so pro dragon and such a good person you think he might be a bit angry or have some shit to say about Lavalout island or what happened to Humongous (I think there was some 'wow that's awfuls' but nothing much more then that. Or maybe I'm mis remembering grain of salt) 5 should have already done this, but again in 7 we don't get any introspection! The wanderers say a lot of things to Hiccup. They call him a devil, they say that all of history is against his kind, they think that he is inherently irredeemable and should be killed before he himself does harm. Hiccup doesn't think about any of this. And so the attempted arc kind of...falls flat for me. But cool Hiccup is in theory like yeah capital S slavery is bad. Then 8 is what REALLY starts off on Hiccup's abolitionism. Hiccup saves Furious, empathises with the chained monster against possible best judgement, and is disgusted by his torture. He wants to free all the prisoners, everyone locked away on Berserk. This is finally when Hiccup starts having a bit more of a reaction to slavery and imprisonment, and then he starts truly pushing against it out of his own accord and disgust and anger at it.

And yet. Not much inner monologue or reflection or dialogue about slavery outside of Hiccup's talk with Furious. It stays that way until book 9, where Hiccup faces the concept of being a king for the first time and then fights his father for the throne, knowing his father won't do the right thing. So, character arc! We get all the beats but I feel like we sort of don't get the development that goes along with the beats so it doesn't totally feeel like a character arc. Why the internal radio silence? Truly it's probably something about Cowell not wanting to make the books too depressing too early on by lingering on the messed up stuff too hard or something else but. I think there's a very in character and plausible explanation for Hiccup's arc around slavery. And it's all about his father.

The Hooligans are later named as one of the 'kinder tribes' who don't engage in slavery and don't agree with it morally but turn a blind eye to rampant slavery happening elsewhere. Slavery seems to really not be discussed much on Berk, but Hiccup and the other Hooligan boys his age probably grew up with some vague sense of pride in being 'the better ones', for having more honour and morals, something shared by the older tribe members. But this inaction is immoral and even though the Hooligans and other tribes aren't slave fairing, they do abuse and exploit dragons on a daily basis. Book 9 is about Hiccup finally acknowledging what has stopped him from thinking too hard or engaging with the enslavement and mistreatment of dragons. The Hooligans are still in the wrong, doing the wrong thing, upholding a bad system. Which means his father is. Stoick is the HTTYD equivalent of a neo-liberal. He dislikes the disdainful messy bits of capitalism, but he ultimately upholds the abusive and violent capitalist system while helping put down leftist organising. And seeing that in your beloved father, for someone as impassioned as Hiccup, is a fucking bitch. It's what makes their fight so heartbreaking. Hiccup couldn't let himself start down the path of unpacking the suffering of dragons and other humans until it was VITAL to do so because I think he knew things would lead back to the feet of his father, and also Hiccup's own. You don't grow up in an abusive system as a member of the oppressor class without being at least a bit complicit in violence and oppression, and I think that eats at hiccup.

ANYWAY fic idea what if I actually fleshed this all out through fic via like snapshots of Hiccup's various radicalisation moments which then focuses on the gap between 9 and 10 where Hiccup is in the woods for like a year with nothing but dragons, anti war domestic terrorism/sabotage and his thoughts for company while showing more anti war rebellion groups bc surely Hiccup and Cami were not the only ones. Cami's team getting a spotlight. ....thuggory pov??? I have vague fic soup rn and it's threatening to engulf me so I had to get this out somehow.

#httyd books #httyd book spoilers #listen idk if this makes sense I have a couple of beans rattling around in my brain as the main processing power #shut up flynn #Explicitly leftist anti-establishment readings of vaguely leftist anti-establishment children's books? more likely than you might think. #not sw

[theburninghallofpep]

THE ASK GAME THING...🙂

Well, here goes! 😃

3 Ships You Like:  The Owl House: Lumity, Huntlow, Vinera. (I'm not sure about Edric!)

How To Train Your Dragon: Hiccstrid, Rufflegs. Not sure about any others. 🤷‍♀️

First Ship Ever: I guess probably Rufflegs.

I love Ruffnut and Tuffnut, the Thorston Twins.

Last Song You Heard: Would you believe? The end theme music from The Owl House Season 3, Episode 3, Watching And Dreaming. On Spotify. 🙂

I play this a lot, especially if I go walking anywhere...

Favorite Childhood Book: Definitely the Hiccup Series of books by Cressida Cowell, starting with "How To Train Your Dragon".

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/How_to_Train_Your_Dragon_(novel_series)

These books served as the inspiration for the Dreanworks "How To Train Your Dragon" movies and series.

There's a lot of the books in the series.🙂

Currently Reading: Apart from the books connected to my education...

For myself, as research for writing...I've been reading a lot of fan theories about The Owl House Universe. The maps, timelines, calendar, and lore, especially those penned by Marztheincredible.

https://marztheincredible.tumblr.com/?source=share

Currently Watching: When I can, I'm mainly re watching The Owl House. Mainly for research, to help with my writing projects. 🙂

Currently Carving: (Should this be Currently Craving?)

Hmmm. More Time, I guess? I've got a lot going on just now, educationaly and home life. 🤷‍♀️

Currently Consuming: Given the choice of food...

Meat and Salad Grinders...

These are also apparently known as Sandwiches, Subs, and other names in various States!

Plus Wraps, Pizza, and all sorts of Human Realm Food!

It's mostly very tasty! 😉😋

I hope that this is what is required?

Best wishes.

Em.

🧙‍♀️🙋‍♀️

your diagnosis is: a huge toh fan /j

i didnt know abt "how to train your dragon" having a novel series, I'll check it later !!

and about the "carving/craving" thing, i got no idea of what it was supposed to be :))

anyways, thxxx for responding it!! i loved your answers

#askgames #em-ira

[bookshelfmonkey]

September reading wrap-up

I did not realise quite how behind I was on these. At least I'm starting to catch up though.

Don Quixote- Cervantes- 3/9/23- 4/10 It had an interesting premise but was just too long. The first few hundred pages were interesting but after that it just felt repetitive and boring.

I, Claudius- Robert Graves- 6/9/23- 8/10 This was a very interesting and entertaining take on both biography and historical fiction. The attitudes towards disability weren't perfect but were definitely better than I expected from a book published in the 1930s.

The Eye of the World- Robert Jordan- 11/9/23- 8/10 Once it got going it was a very interesting and exciting fantasy book. I can see why this series is considered a classic of the genre.

The Spirit Bares Its Teeth- Andrew Joseph White- 12/9/23- 10/10 Showstopping. Spectacular. Permenantly altered my brain chemistry. Seriously, though, I don't think I've ever related to any character the way I related to Silas and the whole book just touched me emotionally in a way very few pieces of media ever have.

Roxana- Daniel Defoe- 13/9/23- 1/10 The formatting was beyond awful for my ADHD and, of what I could understand, nothing interested me.

You're Not Supposed To Die Tonight- Kalynn Bayron- 15/9/23- 8/10 I'm starting to think that horror maybe isn't my genre. It was good, just not really my thing.

How to Ride a Dragon's Storm- Cressida Cowell- 15/9/23- 10/10 Nostalgia to the max. Words can't express how much I love this series.

The Sorcerer In the North- John Flanagan- 19/9/23- 9/10 Again, this is a childhood favourite and I love it. I do feel like it would have been better if this and book 6 were combined into one, though. The pacing in both of them feels a bit off as a result, and this one definitely suffers for it.

The Day of the Dreader- Cressida Cowell- 21/9/23- 10/10 Fun.

Literary Theory: An Introduction- Terry Eagleton- 30/9/23- 6/10

Antigone- Sophocles- 30/9/23- 7/10 It was good, but it just didn't do much for me personally.

#my posts #books #reading #book #my reblogs #bookblr #my posts books #reading wrap up #book review #book reviews

[headspace-hotel]

opinion: infodumps aren’t bad, worldbuilding is just often boring

to explain...

I’m reading Foundryside by Robert Jackson Bennett right now and the magic system is just. AMAZING. there are a bunch of sections where the book just straight explains the nuances of the magic system for a couple pages and I suppose you could call it “infodumpy” but. I LOVE it. And I remember feeling this way about many other books—Discworld’s use of footnotes is just great (this was done in Nevernight as well and is JUST as awesome) and Cressida Cowell’s How to Train Your Dragon series provides SO much information on all the dragon species and yet it’s never tiring.

Which is making me think—is there, perhaps, simply a good and a bad way to execute “infodumps?” What is the difference between Good Infodump and Bad Infodump?

The one thing clear to me is that when worldbuilding is interesting and unique? I eat that shit up. When it’s illuminating to the world and makes me want to know more? When it introduces ideas I haven’t seen before? When I’m being given fascinating tidbits of history or details on the creatures and dragons and stuff that live in the environment? I LOVE being infodumped at because it’s like reading about any fascinating subject when done well and engagingly.

The theory I have is that there’s a distinction between “worldbuilding” and “world-clarifying” and the latter is what makes for boring infodumps.

Worldbuilding introduces the unique concepts and ideas of your world. Giant moths and their biology. Inbreeding in the royal family and the terrible consequences it caused. How the god of sex, drugs and partying is worshipped by his dedicated followers. How telepathy with plants works. It elaborates upon and illuminates these things with a good bit of detail and leaves you feeling more immersed.

World-clarifying, on the other hand, is essentially introducing what your world, or something in it, is and is not. This would include discussing a king or the kind of government your world has. Bringing up factories being built and talking about how and why. How many wizards were left at the end of the wizard wars. The colonization of the continent and how it happened. These things tend to be boring because they aren’t really building the world, but instead making the kind of world it is clearer. Monarchy, wizards, factory work, and colonization aren’t unique or new ideas, they’re just...fairly well-worn concepts that exist and can be a fundamental building block of a world, and a lot of boring worldbuilding consists of showing the reader if and how such archetypes exist in the world. Wars? Yeah. They happened. Kings? Yeah. We’ve got them. Horses? Yes or no? It’s necessary housekeeping, but it’s not what people think of when they say “good worldbuilding.”

This means that “cut things down” isn’t, actually, a blanket solution to solving “infodumping,” because it’s not an issue of amount, but of kind. In fact, shortening worldbuilding can make things worse.

“The clans of the north breed excellent, fast horses, for use in warfare and to deliver mail at unparalleled speeds. The use of horses in warfare became famed back in the time of the first War of the Clans, when Ederic Storm-Beard adopted his favorite horse as his own son, which infuriated his human son, Erkik Fish-Fingers. Erkik broke away from his father’s clan and waged a war against him which ended rather abruptly when Ederic died and was succeeded by the horse, who proved a poor military strategist,”

That paragraph, in my opinion, is interesting worldbuilding. It goes into details and it’s funny and a little absurd. I think I would I like it if I read this paragraph in a book, and I would appreciate it even more if it was used to set up a running gag about horse-delivered junk mail.

On the other hand:

“The clans of the north are known for breeding horses, which are exceptional both for their speed and their prowess in warfare. They have been famed since the time of the War of the Clans,”

is something I would have turned that longer paragraph into when I was still learning how to write, and dozens of writing articles would have validated me because it’s shorter, but it’s also boring as shit. Trying to eliminate “infodumping” as much as possible often corners you into making your worldbuilding facts less and less detailed.

Another common strategy to kill infodumping is to work in worldbuilding through events that are directly relevant to the plot, but this has its own problems. For one thing, it’s limiting. I might want to know something about what the world is like outside of immediate relevance to the events happening to the characters. As a writer, I might want to share something without taking the plot that direction. And furthermore, sometimes worldbuilding is good because it is irrelevant. Trying to make worldbuilding relevant to the story means your readers have to remember more shit to understand the plot. It also means the details are less eccentric and fun and more pragmatic.

Worldbuilding that has direct plot relevancy tends to fall into the “world-clarifying” category, since “a war happened here ten years ago” is functionally useful information to understand the story and world mechanically, and “the war happened because a chieftain of them clans adopted a horse as his son and then started to treat him better than his actual human son” is not. But the thing is...mechanical/functional worldbuilding often sucks. Readers come to a fantasy or spec-fic book to be immersed in a world, and breaking down the worldbuilding to mechanical components of the plot seems like a betrayal of what the story is supposed to be and do. Fun, deep-diving, irrelevant worldbuilding is enjoyable, and it’s not something you have to memorize. It builds up your sense of being immersed rather than your understanding.

Tl;dr weird and overly specific shit that is detailed enough for no one to have ever thought of it and to be new and engaging is much better worldbuilding than concise facts about your world’s functioning, even if it is much longer and rather “infodumpy”

#writing #worldbuilding ideas #worldbuilding #fantasy writing #fantasy worldbuilding #writing opinions #fantasy #good worldbuilding #setting #fantasy settings

[kingofthewilderwest]

I actually watched the entirety of Rescue Riders and I'm really not sure if it is canon. They actually mentioned certain dragon species from the franchise and there was this one dragon that said he's a distant relative of the Foreverwing. I know you might not have watched it, but what do you think?

Heya heya, how goes? :D I haven’t watched Rescue Riders, but I’m happy to give some thoughts about “canon” and the show’s place in it!

My perspective is that fandom has become over-concerned about defining and categorizing canon. It’s become a Very Important Word that dictates how we treat and judge released material. People may reject materials from canon if they aren’t consistent with the rest of the universe, have a significant number of plot holes, or they hear word of god from someone important. While “Is this canon?” can be interesting, speculating conversation, I think that it sometimes misses the point of engaging in a fictional world.

(I’m not saying you’re missing the point, just that this is why I’m leery of such conversations.)

I don’t like the word “canon” anymore because it creates a... judgment zone... almost. Something that isn’t “canon” is often used in conversation to depict something of lesser value, importance, or even something that should be dismissed because it’s “wrong.” It rejects the position of those who made the material. (Not everyone uses the word that way, but it’s so common in fandom circles that the connotation’s nearly omnipresent.) I don’t like that. That there’s some sorting box about what makes the “cut” of “canon.” It stifles creativity, it stifles imagination, it too often stifles acceptance in fandom spaces, and it stifles the joy of engaging in fictional universes.

What matters to me is the difference between official and unofficial materials. 

Official materials are created with legal backing, licensing, or otherwise direct consent, usually to be sold as products in the market. Cressida Cowell, author of How to Train Your Dragon, allowed DreamWorks to make a How to Train Your Dragon franchise. DreamWorks has officially made movies, television shows, video games, and more. Everyone who consumes their products knows that they have this special privilege.

Unofficial materials are those made by fans in fandom spaces. Fandom materials will never have the same “canonical status” as official materials, even if the unofficial materials become widespread and popular in fandom communities. Everyone agrees there’s a difference between what is made by fans, and what is created by DreamWorks, Cowell, or other people who’ve been given official “authority” to make Dragons materials.

How well the official materials meld together world-wise or plot-wise doesn’t take away from the fact they’re official.

I think the better debate to be having isn’t whether or not Rescue Riders is “canon.” I think the better debate is to talk about whether Rescue Riders is “congruent” with the rest of the official DreamWorks Dragons franchise world. That is, instead of calling something “canon” based upon whether or not it fits with the rest of the plot and worldbuilding... why not we say whether or not it’s “congruent” based on those factors? Are we able to explain a world where all the materials in Rescue Riders match up with Race to the Edge, Gift of the Night Fury, and How to Train Your Dragon 2?

And in that, I think there’s better and more positive power to the conversation. We’re able to both recognize Rescue Riders is official and give respectful credit to DreamWorks for their officialness... and we’re able to recognize that some aspects of Rescue Riders might or might not “meld” worldbuilding-wise with the rest of DreamWorks’ official materials. And by talking about congruency, we avoid a now-contentious word (canon), and can talk objectively about whether Rescue Riders seems to fit. Orrrrr... we can talk imaginatively about how Rescue Riders could be explained to fit.

As fans, we have the power of choosing what parts of a franchise fuel our imaginations. We can choose to accept only the HTTYD trilogy for our consideration of congruency or personal interests, or we can accept a wider scope. There’s a lot of power in making fandom headcanons that explain how even things with discontinuties or plot holes... still don’t take away from the broader scope of how this could be one congruent world. After all, don’t all stories have inconsistencies?

If we want to synthesize EVERYTHING together and try to explain how Rescue Riders could work inside the DreamWorks Dragons world, all the power to us! If other people want to say “Eh, no thanks” to Rescue Riders, and not consider it congruent or part of the universe they want to explore, the power to them as well!

Personally for me the talking dragons makes Rescue Riders incongruent with the rest of DreamWorks Dragons’ universe. I feel like the way dragons have been presented in HTTYD, ROB, DOB, RTTE, etc. has been one that they are not a linguistic species. Therefore, creating a story where kids who grew up with dragons can talk with dragons, clashes with everything I find established in the rest of the DreamWorks world. I know that’s how Dean DeBlois approaches this world: as incongruent (or “not canon”) with the broader DreamWorks Dragons universe:

But, there’s also power to be in the hands of creative, fact-synthesizing fans. We can create our own bridges between the worlds to say they’re potentially congruent. There is a LOT of explaining power that can connect almost ANYTHING together, with the right interpretation. I won’t be doing that, but you can.

I hope I didn’t harp for too long about “canon” and sound like a soap box speaker, but this is something that’s on my mind a lot! And I hope this answer explains how I feel about Rescue Riders’ place in DreamWorks Dragons. For me, it’s a separate but related entity. There’s a gray zone wherein it intersects with DreamWorks Dragons, but for me, it is not congruent with the rest of the franchise, and it’s not a part of the world I’ll be using to synthesize and create headcanons and fan theories.

#faq #DreamWorks Dragons #long post #Rescue Riders #ask #ask me #awesome anonymous friend #analysis #my analysis #Anonymous

[ailuronymy]

Guest Warriors-ify: How to Train Your Dragon (Book #1 by Cressida Cowell)

(Note: apologies for the delay, I hope this is up to standard! Thank you for your patience.)

SeaClan Warriors (Hairy Hooligan Tribe)

Hiccup Horrendous Haddock III - Gingerfur, a small, lean ginger tom with blue eyes. Though considered painfully average and weak by most of the clan, resulting in being the target of frequent bullying by his same-age clanmates, his father Russetstar has faith that he will become the next deputy someday. Unlike many other warriors in Seaclan, Gingerfur is more thoughtful than strong, and values intelligence and kindness in negotiations rather than brute force. He is very gentle with apprentices, taking the time to relate to them on a personal level in a way considered unusual for his position. [Apprentice: Tinypaw]

Fishlegs No-Name - Minnowpelt, a small, skinny, frail gray-brown tom, with notably poor eyesight and bad allergies. Gingerfur’s closest companion, he unfortunately is even worse off than his friend with both hunting/fighting skills and social standing. Additionally he is rather pessimistic and high-strung. Regardless, though, he tries his best to stand up for himself (even when it gets him in trouble) and greatly supports Gingerfur. [Apprentice: Adderpaw]

Stoick the Vast - Russetstar (Russetfang), a massive, muscular, long-furred ginger tom. Leader of SeaClan, he is incredibly strong and assertive, but rather lacking in finesse and intuition, to the point some may call him dim-witted. Though he can be brash and intimidating, he truly does care about Gingerpelt (even if he may not understand his “strange” traits) and always insists his son is destined to follow in his ambitious pawsteps and become deputy when the aging Waspfang retires.

Gobber the Belch - Waspfang, a huge, extremely muscular (but somewhat aging) reddish-brown tom with long, wild fur. Deputy of Seaclan and one of Russetstar’s closest confidents; although he, like his leader, is not always the most sensitive or clever on the outside, likewise he does care for his warriors’ well-being at heart. He tries his best to “shape up” Gingerfur to the expectations of the young warrior’s father, as he recognizes his leader’s hope for a successor as reliable as Waspfang.

Snotface Snotlout - Lionclaw, a large, muscular, handsome golden tabby tom. Much admired by most of the clan, he has big ambitions and undeniably the skill  (especially in battle) to justify them. In contrast to Gingerfur’s good heart, however, personality-wise Lionfang is a vain and mean-spirited bully, especially to Minnowpelt and Gingerfur. [Apprentice: Firepaw]

SeaClan Apprentices (novice hunting dragons)

Toothless - Tinypaw (Tinystorm), an extraordinarily small, but otherwise entirely average-looking, brown tabby tom with green eyes. Even discounting his size disadvantage, he is not particularly skilled at anything, but is well-known for his moody, stubborn, unpredictable nature. He often gives his mentor Gingerfur a lot of snark and even defiance, but in times of need, he can be greatly courageous to protect Gingerfur and the clan.

Fireworm - Firepaw (Fireclaw), a large, muscular ginger she-cat with impressively long claws and fangs. Although arguably selfish and vain, there is no denying her superb talent in most warrior duties but especially battle, much like her mentor. She is particularly eager to rough up the enemies of Lionfang, and often singles out Tinypaw as a target of her cruelty as a result. However, when it comes down to it, she isn’t quite loyal to anyone, and is quick to desert even Lionfang in the face of major threats.

Horrorcow - Adderpaw (Addercloud), an average-looking brown tabby she-cat. Though loyal to her mentor Minnowpelt, she is a pacifist and not particularly interested in most typical warrior duties, reluctant to harm even the smallest prey. Despite also being the target of Lionfang and Firepaw’s bullying, she is very easy-going, patient, and with an almost kitten-like innocence.

Non-Clan

The Green Death - Boulderclaw, a ferocious mountain lion who seems incredibly, impossibly, stupendously huge in comparison to even the largest warriors. Though of course not part of any clan, he was given an honorary name by the resident clans in hopes of striking a truce with him - in theory helped by their commonalities in feline communication - but unfortunately this was to no avail; just as they feared, he quickly gained reputation as a merciless monster who killed cats with terrifying ease. Against all odds, he met his demise at the paws of none other than Gingerfur and Tinypaw - after threatening to wipe out the clans, the beast was tricked into battling another panther; though mortally wounded in that fight, with his dying breaths he attempted to take out Gingerfur with him, at which point the warrior and his apprentice lead him to his doom by suffocation.

#submission #warriorsify

[inhonoredglory]

ashryverwithadragon commented on queenofthearchipelago's post “You wanna know what's sadder than Hiccup and Toothless being...”

I’ve been thinking about this for months now amd now I’m spiralling again, thanks. My thoughts are these: Hiccup loves dragons. Valka loves dragons just as much. The gang’s dragons aren’t just pets. They’re their best friends, their companions. We focus so much on Hicctooth (gods this ship name is ridiculous) that we forget about the strong bonds the rest of the gang has formed with their dragons. Snotlout has already been through this in RttE when Hookie was helping out that female MN and I don’t think he’d be able to handle it again, this time permanently. Astrid almost died to save Stormfly when she thought she was poisoned with Slitherwing venom. Ruff and Tuff were incredibly distressed when Barf&Belch were more loyal to Hiccup than them in Zippleback Experience. None of these kids will be okay with letting their dragon go. And it would be highly unrealistic for ALL the dragons to find mates at the same time. Toothless has the excuse of becoming the leader and finding a mate but Stormfly, Hookie, Meatlug and Balch do not. The thing HTTYD 2 stressed to no end is that dragons can become loyal to a fault to their humans. Why spend an entire movie to pass that message only to stomp on it 5 years later? If Hiccup decides that all dragons need to go into the Hidden World, this decision won’t only affect himself. It affects ALL of Berk. Every single person on Berk has learned to love and live with dragons. Every single one of them are willing to fight for their freedom. Every single one of them are willing to leave Berk to save the dragons. But… how possible is that? From the info we got from TIFF, the dragons in the HW aren’t friendly or human-tolerant. This makes me doubt the outcome of all of Berk moving on to the HW will be actually doable. Even if those new pictures on Amazon say “Journey to NEW Berk”. I dont know, the choice of words might just be promotional click bait? Maybe. Idk.Having read the books by Cressida Cowell and knowing how they end, and by Dean Debois’ statements that the ending of the trilogy will honour Cowell’s books, makes me think that maybe it won’t be as traumatic. Maybe the departure of dragons will happen gradually, as it happens in the books. Maybe Toothless does lead the dragons in the HW but is still there for Hiccup. We know they fight Grimmel together, right? And that poster shows OLD Hiccup riding Toothless looking back at his younger reflection in the water. Maybe the gang gets to grow old WITH their dragons. Its a small hope i hold to keep me from crying. Hiccup is a negotiator and a peacemaker. He will make the decision that involves the less amount of pain for his people AND the dragons, even if he himself is in great pain for ‘losing’ Toothless. I believe in him and I believe in Dean. He won’t be cruel with us. And I say this in complete confidence and utter terror. Thanks for coming to my Ted Talk i need to stop because I’m tearing up again.

Just wanted to save this bit of analysis to my blog. I agree, the end of the film will very likely show the dragons leaving gradually. And as Hiccup says in the trailer, everyone will go into hiding. The dragons in the HW might be wary of humans, but that doesn’t mean humans can’t be around them. Berk will probably live near the HW (or in another part of it, depending on how vast it is, and it’s probably vast), if not directly alongside the dragons.

IDK, that’s one theory.

#ashryverwithadragon #reply #analysis #httyd analysis #httyd3 speculation #httyd3 spoilers

[zarinaa113]

Hiccup is not Hiccup:

HTTYD 3 Spoilers. And for the previous films and shows.

Here’s what I mean:

Dean has stated that after making HTTYD so different from its original source material, and wanting to continue the franchise with the same whimsy, he asked Cressida Cowell to be a story consultant. She knew this world, even if it was different from her own. His goal was to make the end of the last HTTYD film closely tie into the beginning of the HTTYD books so that they were no longer separate entities.

I know that we’re all screaming ‘there were dragons when I was a boy’ and that’s probably not wrong. (Its not like we’ll know till the end of the film anyway.) But let me propose this:

In Cannon, has Hiccup ever been called Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the Third?

No.

(RTTE isn’t canon. Confirmed.)

I’ll do you one better, is he ever called Hiccup Horrendous Haddock?

No.

Haddock might only be mentioned once and I don’t think it was in regards to Hiccup.

I believe that in How To Train Your Dragon 3 (The Hidden World) we will find out that the Hiccup in the films is not the Hiccup who writes/narrates the books.

Now, disclaimer, I have NOT read the HTTYD books. I will, just not now. I know they’re great but I didn’t want any potential spoilers for the films and other reasons.

What I have found out is that in the books, dragons are more like pets. Like in the Flinstones. I’ve also found out that they speak in a language called Dragoneas. (I’m not spelling that right.) These things are not in the HTTYD films. But, if you have a society like you see in HTTYD 2, it looks sorta like what we see in the books. Dragons as pets. I could see it developing that way in HTTYD 3 and afterwards. And if you have dragons that are smarter then the average animal living with humans for generations they may develop their own language like the humans. (Even if it already existed.)

I also discovered the stories of the previous two Hiccup Horrendous Haddocks. I know that the second one is a lot like Valka and chose dragons over humans. I know that the first is the first to ever train a dragon. The dragon was black and was hurt. Hiccup 1 nursed him back to health and in return he taught him Dragoneas. They started the friendship between humans and dragons that has been going on till book-Hiccup‘s time.

If that doesn't sound EXACTLY like Hiccup and Toothless I will eat a trough full of YackNogg!

I know that Cressida only recently finished the HTTYD books and its possible that she didn’t have Hiccup 1′s story published when the first film came out, or possibly even the second. You can tell me when if you’d like. So HTTYD 1 could not have been purposefully made with Hiccup 1’s backstory. But could have been done unintentionally.

While it does seem weird that there’d be another Fishlegs Ingerman who doesn't have a second after his name, and another Alvin the Outcast, and no one mentions Drago in the books, this is just a fan theory. We shall know for certain on the eve of March 1st 2019.

We also know that Hiccup and Astrid are married in HTTYD 3 and that Hiccstrid babies are rumored. If that is the case I can see the tie in with the books being along the lines of older-Hiccup stating that he sits here with his grandchild Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the Second, telling him that This Is Berk, here we have dragons, but they won’t be here forever and we need to be ready for the day when they leave us. Little Hiccup the Second says he doesn't want that to happen, Hiccup says that neither did his great-grandma and neither doses he, but all good things must end, and I hope you tell you’re children that there were dragons on Berk when we were boys. Commence the tears.

I am sure there are a million things I’ve overlooked since I haven’t read the books. Feel free to add a list of things I got wrong or more things that could work if you’ve read the books and would like to add.

TL;DR: In sum-up, I think that Hiccup, the main character of the HTTYD films is not supposed to be an alternate version of the Hiccup who is the main character of the books, but rather the Hiccup the First from the books who brought dragons together. That will be confirmed at the end of the film with his children/grandchildren.

#My HTTYD post #By Zarina A113 #HTTYD 3 spoilers #My theory #Fan Theories #Zarina speaks #Original By Zarina A113! #My post #MINE #Gif #Analisys #Analysis #DW #Hiccup #Animation #Theory #book!hiccup #Long

[arduennas]

Every Witch (or Wish) Way: A Half-Baked TWOO Theory

WARNING: MAJOR SPOILERS FOR THE WIZARDS OF ONCE. DO NOT READ BELOW THE BREAK IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO BE SPOILED.

DISCLAIMER: I only finished the book yesterday, which means I have not had a lot of time to think this theory over. It came to me while I was reading, and may or may not actually make sense once I write it out. So here goes.

The theory starts with Wish.

Wish is one of the most mysterious characters in the book. Her mystery stems from her multitude of Magical powers—the Magic Eye, the Magic-that-works-on-iron, and the whole ‘being a Great Enchanter’ thing—all powers that should be impossible for a Warrior to possess.

So we have to wonder where exactly Wish’s Magic comes from. There are two possible sources of her Magic—either her Magic was given to her by a Wizard or Witch, or she has Magical heritage.

There’s no evidence for Wish being granted Magic by a Wizard or Witch. The only Wizards she had met before Xar had either already been stripped of their Magic, or were under heavy guard and unable to enchant anything without being caught. And she had never even seen a Witch before the events of the book, let alone been enchanted by one.

So the only other option is for Wish to have Magical heritage, which lines up perfectly with the fact that her father has not (yet) made an appearance, or has even been mentioned.

The first theory that we’ll get out of the way quickly is that Wish is not Sychorax’s daughter at all. She was found floating down the river in a lobster pot or whatever, and it turns out she’s actually a Wizard princess.

The second, better theory to come from this is that Wish’s father is a Wizard (possibly Encanzo, but I’ll get to that later). It’s possible that Sychorax has been sneaking into the Badwoods not just to learn Magic, but to meet a Wizard lover. This would be a nice, sort of predictable resolution to the mystery, as it would explain why Wish has Magic-that-works-on-iron—she is a combination of Warrior and Wizard, and therefore has a combination of their powers. This theory would also tie in with the ‘history repeating itself’ theme that Cressida Cowell loves, just with a romance between Sychorax and her lover instead of the friendship between Wish and Xar. (Unless the two of them fall in love in the later books, in which case we all shall mourn.)

I also have a third theory, however, that’s much more interesting (to me, at least) than the first or second. What if Wish’s father is not a Wizard, but a Witch?

This would mean that Wish is a Witch (try saying that five times fast), or part Witch I suppose. Which means that this line in Chapter 4 holds a lot of foreshadowing:

‘I’m not trying to trick you,’ said the voice, less shaky now and more indignant. ‘My name is Wish, not Witch...’ (64-65)

See? Even her name could be a hint that Wish is a Witch.

But let’s get back to the three original causes of Wish’s strangeness—the Magic Eye, the Magic-that-works-on-iron, and being a Great Enchanter. The Magic-that-works-on-iron would be explained by her father being a Wizard. But being a Great Enchanter and having a Magic Eye, both of which go hand in hand, are more difficult to explain. I’m going to try anyway.

Only two Great Enchanters have been confirmed thus far: Wish and the Kingwitch. Because there are so few Great Enchanters, it wouldn’t make sense to say that just because the Kingwitch is both a Great Enchanter and a Witch, Wish must be both as well. But I believe that is the case, and I’m going to use a third character to prove my point: Caliburn.

It’s time to take a little detour into another theory of mine, and that theory is that Caliburn is both a Great Enchanter and a Witch, proving that one must be a Witch to be a Great Enchanter, and vice versa.

First off, look at the way Caliburn describes Great Enchanters’ multiple lives to Wish:

‘Even Great Enchanters are made of flesh and blood, and that wears out after a while. So you have to be careful of your lives, Wish. For you do not know how many you will have.’ (322)

It sounds like Caliburn knows this from experience, which would mean that he is, or once was, a Great Enchanter. It’s possible he turned into a raven after his lives ran out, or he was somehow tranformed into a raven through Magic. You could draw any number of conclusions from the ‘Caliburn is a Great Enchanter’ theory.

As for Caliburn being a Witch? Well, the Kingwitch has black feathers. Caliburn also has black feathers. Yes, ravens normally have black feathers. Just go with it for a moment. I warned you this theory wasn’t very well-planned.

So if both the Kingwitch and Caliburn are Great Enchanters and Witches, this probably means one is required to have the other, so Wish is a Witch. Which brings up the Very Important Question of who her father is and what on earth Sychorax was thinking.

The problem is that if Wish is a Witch, we don’t currently have very many candidates for Wish’s father. We actually only have one. I do like to think her father was the Kingwitch. However, I also think that the Kingwitch was more of a Green Death sort of figure, aka a smaller villain that shows up in the first book to sort of prep you for the Major Villain who will arrive later in the series. So he’s probably not Witch’s father.

To sum up, my theory is that Wish’s father was a Witch (and possibly a Great Enchanter), and his Magical genes mixed with her mother’s Warrior genes made Wish a Great Enchanter with Magic-that-works-on-iron.

Side note: I promised I would talk about Encanzo possibly being Wish’s father, but since it doesn’t have much to do with my theory because Encanzo is obviously not a Witch, I’m just adding it as a side note.

The only evidence that Encanzo could be Wish’s father comes from what we already know about Cressida Cowell and the HTTYD books. Basically, the moment I started questioning Wish’s parentage was the moment I started drawing parallels between her and Fishlegs. The most intriguing parallel I found is that both of them wear an eyepatch. Something some people might not have noticed is that at the end of HTTYD Book 12, Fishlegs is drawn wearing Alvin’s eyepatch. Interpret that as you will.

So now we’re saying that Fishlegs and Wish have near-parallel stories. This means, of course, that for Encanzo to be Wish’s father, he has to be similar to Alvin the Treacherous. There are a few parallels between those two characters as well:

They both look similar in physical appearance. Both Alvin and Encanzo are bald and thin, and have a sort of malevolent air about them.

They’re both royalty. Alvin is descended from Grimbeard the Ghastly, whereas Encanzo is the leader of the Wizards. (I can’t remember what his title is exactly. King? Chief Wizard?)

Both of them are kind of terrible parents. I know Encanzo was supposed to get redeemed at the end, but he did emotionally abuse Xar and knock Looter to the ground by blasting him with Magic. So I’m still on Team Encanzo Is Not The Best Dad Out There.

Looking at the evidence, it would make sense for Encanzo to be TWOO’s Alvin equivalent and therefore Wish’s father. This would also conveniently make a Xar-Wish romance impossible, so I fully support this theory.

And that’s about it! Lastly, I just want to remind you that this is all just speculation, and I’m aware that my theory has a ton of holes in it. It’s probably not correct, and that’s fine. Doing the theorizing was fun anyway. :)

—books-are-like-dragons

#twoo #twoo spoilers

[companion-of-the-dragonmark]

Headcanon: The Druid Guardian is the grandson of Hiccup the Second. His father was his son via a slave girl that he secretly married in rebellion against his Father. After Hiccup’s death, Grimbeard gave the child and his mother over to a group of Warriors and their dragons tasked with the grim duty of protecting the Ruins of Tomorrow against any trespasser until Grimbeard’s Heir comes with all of the Lost Things.

Which, in turn, makes the Druid Guardian Hiccup’s... second cousin? (I stink with cousin charts).

What do you think?

#companion-of-the-dragonmark #httyd books #httyd book fandom #httyd book franchise #httyd book series #httyd book discussion #httyd book theory #httyd book headcanon #httyd book characters #httyd book fans #cressida cowell #book 11 #book 12 #druid guardian #hiccup the third #grimbeard the ghastly #hiccup the second #the things I come up with in the wee hours of the morning #druid guardian is hiccup's cousin #druid guardian is hiccup the second's grandson

[dragonprincess68]

Random Theory

I’ve heard a theory about how in Tangled the only reason that Eugene and Rapunzel are narrating it is because they are telling their stories to their future kids. What if that is the same reason that Hiccup is narrating How To Train Your Dragon? He could be telling stories of when dragons were around or adventures them and their mom were thinking about to his kids! It could be that or DreamWorks could be doing what Cressida Cowell did in her books where Hiccup is an old man telling the story to kids. I personally think it would be cool if it was Hiccup telling the story to his and Astrid’s kids.

[kingofthewilderwest]

What do you think of the fan theory on how the movies supposedly tell the story of Hiccup Horrendous Haddock I?

I chat far more about this topic here.

As much as I adore making analyses and connections between the book series and movie trilogy, I don’t consider the movies to intentionally be anything about Hiccup the First. It’s a cool idea but I don’t connect with this theory (or any of its variations) myself! Thus, I don’t like personally writing analogies between the movies and the first Hiccup because I don’t think the writers were trying for such parallel instances. We can see similarities easily, and that’s extremely fun to analyze, but as far as a theory for how the stories were intended to be written, I don’t see that DreamWorks had any intention for paralleling Hiccup the First with their Hiccup.

We know without a doubt that the character in the movies is the third Hiccup. We have the obvious things such as characters like Snotlout, Stoick, Gobber, and Tuffnut existing - people from Hiccup the Third’s lifespan - not to mention episodes in Race to the Edge specifying our character is “Hiccup the Third.” Of course that doesn’t tell us if writers intended to add certain Hiccup the First parallels or not, but we can look beyond this and realize… the entire story of the first movie is also the entire story of the first book, just modified.

For me it’s fairly clear, looking at the first movie’s writing process, that they modeled it straight after Cowell’s first book. Original storyboards hugged extremely closely to Cowell’s writing, but over time writers made appropriate changes, given as book and movie are rather different methods of storytelling that require different elements. The divergences between the first book and the first movie come about not to make Hiccup the First parallels, but to make something more cinematic. And all their changes are logical and appropriate for the big screen. Thus, when I watch the movie, I see Hiccup the Third through and through, and I don’t think it’s relevant to suggest that there’s anything about Hiccup the First here.

Beyond that, information about Hiccup the First hadn’t been written and published yet, so DreamWorks’ writers would have had no inspiration to draw from in their own film. The first movie came out in 2010. We first learn about the story of Hiccup Horrendous Haddock the First in the ninth book of Cowell’s series, which came out in 2011. Since movies take several years to write and produce, the script would have been written far before Cowell revealed information about Hiccup the First.

So there are lots of fun parallels fans can make of the material, but for me those are nothing but fun accidents between DreamWorks’ movies and Cressida’s Hiccup the First! 

#faq #httyd #How to Train Your Dragon #How to Steal a Dragon's Sword #analysis #my analysis #ask #ask me #awesome anonymous friend #Anonymous #httyd books #Cressida Cowell #Hiccup #Hiccup the First

[kingofthewilderwest]

In reference to the fan theory that Movie Hiccup more or less represents all three generations of Hiccups in the books, I wanted to point out that it's not until the 2nd movie that it's stated that Hiccup and Toothless are the same age. You could make a connection between Hiccup and Toothless' relationship in the 2nd film, and the relationship between Hiccup II and Furious who grew up together?

From this.

As I’m sure you’ve seen in several of my previous responses, I don’t hold to the theory,especially since the first movie was created and released before Hiccup the First was even introduced in Cressida Cowell’s writing. XD As cool as the idea is, there’s no way that objectively meta-wise the first movie is actually intended to be about Hiccup the First. The movies are about Hiccup the Third and I’m admittedly never going to go into this level of imagination myself trying to create parallels where I don’t think there actually are real parallels DreamWorks intended. Sorry! 

I’m really glad fans are using creativity to see parallels, and go for it, have fun with those! Our own interpretations are what make media meaningful to us, and there is great power to interpreting stories. It’s an interesting angle to interpret the three movies as about the three Hiccups. Please have fun with that and don’t let my perspective dampen the fun you have enjoying fandom. But I see the three Hiccup fan theory as parallels of peoples’ own creation, finding connections where they are meaningful to one’s own personal take on the story, rather than something that actually exists in the writing or meaning or intention or content of what the movies actually are. 

So I hope you don’t mind me saying I personally would find the connection you’re making a large stretch. But I’m also regrettably not the target audience for the tidbit you’re sharing.

If you want to chat about this with others who hold the same perspective, the wonderful and friendly and ever-astounding @australet789 is probably the person who first introduced this idea several years ago! I don’t know if she’s still interested in talking about this theory since it’s been a lot of time, but hey! It’s one area where maybe you can have some back and forth about little instances you think help the parallels?

Take care and stay awesome, dragon nerd! Yay for the HTTYD books and movies both!

#faq #httyd fandom #httyd #How to Train Your Dragon #httyd2 #httyd 2 #How to Train Your Dragon 2 #Anonymous

[kingofthewilderwest]

I'm not sure whether i consider rtte canon or not. I mean i friggin love the show ! But it's hard to fit the timeline into the one year time gap they give us between the show and the second movie. And also according to Dean De Blois , Hiccup and Astrid have been dating since the first movie. So what are your thoughts ? ( BTW i love your blog ! )

Boooooooooooooop! And here’s another boop! And let’s do a third boop for fun! :))) I talk a lot about my perspective on canon in links like the ones I just gave you. 

Essentially, canon =/= consistency. It doesn’t matter if material is completely consistent with each other for it to be considered canon or not. I’m not sure when fandoms decided that slight potential contradictions between sources suddenly invalidated the creation of an official material, but I think that consistency is way overrated, overexaggerated, and hyper-focused on. If it is officially produced material, then that is far different than something a fan made on their own without DreamWorks’ financial backing and production. I think it is only respectful to recognize official materials as what they are… official materials… even if that means there might be some “knots” in terms of a fandom’s fascinating obsession on precious consistency.

The more one looks at any fictional material, the more one can see potential or blatant contradictions anywhere. No story is free from fallacy. Even within a single movie or novel, there are going to be plot gaps, inconsistencies, contradictions, or challenges to reconcile. While of course it’s a lot cleaner and more careful writing if everything lines up perfectly, it doesn’t make the story less genuine just because a few plot bunnies or outright contradictions exist. One of the fun things I enjoy doing on this blog is marrying all source material to one another with best-possible-explanations. We as fans can unite materials to create best possible explanations with even the trickier bumps, knots, and jolts of information. I accept it all and I’m happy with it all. It’s not that I deny that challenges exist to creating a unified theory, but I enjoy making that unified theory the best I can, and I accept any official material that stories throw out at me.

No matter what I say, though, it’s not like I can change peoples’ minds about their determination of what is/isn’t canon based upon consistency.

Now as far as consistency goes, I’m always going to be a blog that tries to talk about how we can best interpret all materials for consistency. It’s what I do. I’m not a blog that talks about doubt of material coinciding with each other, even though I’m fully aware of where all the kinks and problems are. And I honestly don’t think it’s all too terrifying to look at the differences between RTTE and HTTYD 2 and give plausible explanations for what we see. 

So to take the Hiccstrid example you brought up… Dean DeBlois talks about Hiccstrid as being together in mostly vague comments like Hiccup “gets the girl” (at the end of HTTYD filmmaker’s commentary is where he says that). Hiccup getting the girl - aka catching her interests and affections - is different than Hiccup officially courting the girl. For me, I don’t find anything blaringly inconsistent about Hiccstrid when I look just at the events within the story timeline. And when I consider what filmmakers say… well… what one creator envisions doesn’t always make it to the screen, and I prioritize what makes it to the screen over original intentions. If you look just as what happens on screen, it’s not that Hiccstrid explicitly started dating at the end of HTTYD at all. It’s fine.

How to Train Your Dragon is a complex franchise that involves the workings of hundreds of creative individuals, from the original author Cressida Cowell, to the animation department of the movies, to the producers and writers of the movies, to the show creators, to the comic book writers, to everyone else out there involved. How to Train Your Dragon is the summation of more than one woman’s or one man’s vision, and I respect that it is such a collaborative effort that it’s okay if what Dean DeBlois said vaguely about Hiccstrid being “together” for five years… isn’t “exactly” what happened on screen. 

And frankly, even before Hiccup and Astrid get officially together in RTTE… they’re just acknowledging what’s been emotionally going on between them for years. ;) You can always make that explanation, too!

Regardless of whether you want to look at it through Dean DeBlois’ original commentary, or whether you want to look at it through what happens on screen, I don’t feel as though minor things like Hiccstrid’s timeline is a make-or-break difference for storytelling consistency. It’s not like a main character died in Race to the Edge and then suddenly reappeared live and well in HTTYD 2! We can acknowledge that there might be a few bumps in the road to explain how Berk gets it aqueducts between RTTE and HTTYD 2, but also not completely throw official material out the window in the process of considering those bumps. They’re bumps, not tears in the story, so it’s fine with me. That’s how I approach it. :) And wherever there are bumps, it’s always fun for us fans to take all the materials from official sources we know… and create our own rational explanation for what we have experienced. 

So yeah. I acknowledge there are plenty of things that might not be perfectly aligned between RTTE, HTTYD, ROB, DOB, HTTYD 2, GOTNF, SOD, and what have you… but it doesn’t mean I accept it any less. ^.^ Frankly superhero canon is far far far more variable in terms of its consistency, and that’s still all fun stuff, too. I’m just happy that I have so much official source material to enjoy in this amazing fandom! And regardless of whether or not we all want to emotionally accept RTTE as the bridge between HTTYD and HTTYD 2, I’m glad that you and I can both enjoy it for the fun it is. :) It shouldn’t be a big deal or a contentious issue in the fandom about how we feel about RTTE’s placement between movies.

Last… thank you so much for the really lovely comments! I’m so glad you enjoy my blog! Now I hope you go out and have a wonderful, wonderful day! :D 

#long post #faq #rtte #Race to the Edge #DreamWorks Dragons #httyd fandom #ask #ask me #awesome anonymous friend #anonymous #canon #analysis #my analysis #Hiccstrid #Anonymous #I say this lovingly to all fandom