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#Yrene in this case would be Gwyn
whisperingmidnights · 20 days
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I guess my main issue is the age
Eris is around the bat boys age whereas feyre and nesta are even younger than Gwyn
I think that would ruin nessian and feysand for me
Especially if he’s the grandfather like that would be so messed upppp
I am also soooo tired of sjm pulling stuff like that because in every book series of her she has to use the same plot lines for a twist
lol now this is going to be a spoiler for tog and cc in case you didn’t read it
I am talking about pregnancy and “forbidden” children/not knowing the real father trope
In tog yrene got pregnant, then feyre and in cc lidia suddenly had twins…
And in tog aedion is gavriels son, in acotar Lucian is helions and in cc is hunt basically the stepson of two princes of hel
Obviously that’s just my opinion but its getting lame and boring so I hope that sjm pulls something more creative out of her hat this time instead of the secret father card
I meeeeaaannnn the age difference is questionable no matter what. It's a matter of CENTURIES of difference in experience either way you look at it. You can't tell me none of these 500 year old dudes haven't fathered illegitimate love children SOMEWHERE if they're all so sexy and great in bed.
That being said...
I also don't really want her to use the secret love child trope as a twist again. Yrene's pregnancy in TOG was so unnecessary, it did nothing for the plot and it certainly didn't make Chaol more interesting. I didn't like Lidia's surprise children because, again, it came out of nowhere and did nothing for the plot. Having her be a descendent of Brannon was enough, it could have stopped there because that's all that was relevant. I didn't mind the Aedion and Gavriel thing as much, but maybe that's because it was the first instance of it. The Hunt plot sure was...something. And Lucien being Helion's son might be interesting if she ever does anything with it. She's kind of nerfed Lucien, which I'm sad about, but maybe he'll be more relevant in the next book.
So, really, I'm kind of with you on this one. You make good points.
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feysandfeels · 3 years
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I’m sorry but how can we have that gwynriel romantic book without Az and Mor having a tiny, little, quite insignificant really conversation first... and how can that conversation and its ramifications not be seen from the povs of the people it affects the most.
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highqueenmorrigan · 2 years
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As I'm reading Tower of Dawn with the introduction of Yrene, it makes me think that if gwynriel becomes canon in the next book, I honestly don't think that many people will be confused. I didn't read the novella that introduced Yrene as a character (and future LI for Chaol) but everything still makes sense and their buildup makes sense, so I really don't think a buildup to Gwyn and Azriel would be that confusing. Gwyn is already a character that we know a fair amount about, so the main buildup would be between the two instead of introducing her character...which even casual readers who didn't read the bonus material can follow
Edit: I guess really what I'm trying to get at as well is that if people would be confused by gwynriel if they hadn't read the bonus chapter, they would CERTAINLY be confused by elriel in the next book, if that's the logic we're using. I was def a casual reader of acosf so I didn't particularly notice anything between Elain and Azriel, which I imagine is the case for a fair number of people who didn't go in deep and analyze the book. So if gwynriel can't possibly happen because "all of their development" is in the bonus chapter...the same is true for elriel, since they hadn't even touched before then 🙄
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daisybrekker · 3 years
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Debunking Gwynriel/Anti Elriel Theories Pt2
Why would SJM put Gwyn in Azriel's bonus chapter if she wasn't his endgame?
My sweet naive children...This is what authors do. She wants her readers to drive themselves crazy by wondering how this full thing will play out. Do you guys remember when in ACOFAS Nesta outright rejected Cassian and he threw her gift away? The full fandom went psycho trying to figure out what was in the box and if Nesta would somehow get the gift back. She wants us to think what will happen between Elriel now that Gwyn might have Elain's gift. If they weren't interrupted then Elain would keep the necklace and they would definitely kiss so the chapter would end in a nice happy way. But then, that would most likely confirm our endgame, right? SJM doesn't want us to be confident in anything yet, instead she wants us to be confused. Like with a cliffhanger.
Elriel won't happen because ever since Azriel's bonus chapter, which was set in the middle of the book, there were no more Elriel scenes in ACOSF
Once again, it's obvious why SJM has done this.
For people who have read the bonus chapter (since it's not available in all editions of the book) it's going to make them question what the relationship is currently between Elain and Azriel? Especially, after Azriel saying that their almost kiss was a mistake and inevitably hurting Elain (even though it was clear he would've kissed her if he wasn't interrupted😏)
Therefore, this means that we have a little bit of a misunderstanding that will most likely have to be solved between them...It's pretty obvious SJM wouldn't resolve this in a book about Nessian. Why? Because she's saving it for ACOTAR5. Elriel's book.
She wants to build the tension. It's as simple as that.
Since Elain didn't keep the necklace, but kept Lucien's gifts, she clearly doesn't care about Azriel
Yeah, no. Did some people skip the part where Azriel said that their almost kiss was a mistake? Elain was clearly hurt. Despite the fact that the readers know he said it because of Rhys interrupting him mentally, Elain doesn't know that. She genuinely believes that Azriel thought that their moment was a mistake. Why would she keep a gift from someone who says something like that? As for her keeping Lucien's gloves, she might have kept them, but did the antis also forget that moment in the series where Feyre literally pointed out the fact that Elain doesn't even use the gloves and prefers to come back with bloody hands? Y'all will really forget the key details when it suits you, won't you?🤨
After what happened between Elain and Azriel in his bonus chapter, they're clearly over
Funnily enough, you guys couldn't be more wrong. The only way I'd believe Elriel was over in that bonus chapter was if Elriel actually kissed without interruption...If that kind of thing happened, followed by Azriel claiming their actual kiss was a mistake, then I'd be less confident in Elriel endgame. But that's the thing, they never got to kiss, leaving tension not only between them, but for the readers too! When will this tension be resolved? Repeat after me. Elriel's book.
It's only sexual feelings between them
You know what...I'm not even going to argue against this but just leave a couple questions for you to wonder about💞
Why would Azriel give Truth-Teller to Elain, something he's never done with anyone before. (Keep in mind he's 500+ years old, he's went through many dangerous situations yet still never gave it to anyone👀)
Why did Azriel give up on Mor after 500 years? (Once again, remember that he's met billions of people throughout his whole life yet remained infatuated with Mor. Suddenly Elain comes along and look what we have here😏)
Why would SJM be building tension for them since the 2nd book AND constantly show how uncomfortable Elain is in Lucien's presence just to make Elain accept the bond with Azriel ending up with a side character introduced in the 5th book?
If it really is only sexual, then why was Azriel so frustrated when Rhys basically commanded him to leave Elain alone? He could've easily just found himself someone for sexual purposes but he didn't. Wonder why...
Elain is boring and has no personality
This one honestly frustrates me because it's so unfair to Elain.
We haven't had that many scenes with her compared to other characters but there is a perfect explanation for that. The first 4 books were set in Feyre's POV, right? ACOTAR was literally Feyre being away from her family for majority of the book. As for the other 3? It was mostly about Feyre adapting to Rhysand's world, developing her powers, etc. And during that time period, Elain and Nesta both decided to shut themselves off from the world because of how they became Fae. Now, some people might argue that even then, we still got to see Nesta's personality but not Elain's. But that's the thing! Different people grieve differently! Nesta was more open with her anger towards the IC and what happened to her, meanwhile Elain preferred to deal with it in a more private, quiet way. There's nothing wrong with that and yet, people do nothing but slander Elain, overlooking what she's been through.
Quite a similar point to the first one but related to ACOSF more. This was Nessian's book and since Nesta was forced to live in the House of the Wind, it's fairly obvious we wouldn't see much of Elain since she doesn't live there. Kinda like with Mor, in the 3 books after ACOTAR we saw her frequently because Feyre saw her but since we then moved to Nesta's POV, Mor's appearances significantly decreased.
Since SJM has said that if an ACOTAR character was to be her best friend, she'd pick Elain, I think it's obvious there's more to her than we think. There's been plenty of foreshadowing for that too! Feysand's bonus chapter from ACOSF is literally centered around Elain, Feyre talking about the fact that Elain prefers to get her hands dirty when gardening, Nesta calling Elain out that she's finally beginning to grow a backbone...Trust me when I say that Elain is going to shine in her own book.
Azriel's shadows hide from Elain, must be a bad sign!
There have literally been scenes where they hide with Mor, Cassian, Rhys, etc. I guess they're bad characters too, right? Case closed.
Gwyn is such a badass meanwhile Elain can't fight so she wouldn't suit Azriel
Things don't work like that😭Last time I checked, Yrene from TOG was mainly a healer, not a fighter, yet her relationship with Chaol blossomed perfectly fine. Besides, with all the foreshadowing from SJM, it looks like Elain will be more of a spy than a fighter. Oh and guess who else is a spy! Repeat after me :) Elriel book
The way that Chaol went from Celaena, Nesryn to Yrene will be just like Azriel going from Mor, Elain to Gwyn
Nope. Firstly, that would be SJM repeating her plot which would be bad writing. (Especially since we know that these universes are somehow linked)
Secondly, I don't know how much of the ACOTAR fandom has also read TOG but personally, I knew from the start that Chaol and Celaena wouldn't be endgame. I did believe they'd last for a while but there was just too many things that didn't match for me with them. As for Nesryn, her and Chaol literally lasted one book...
Elriel has been slowly developed for 4 books now...That's way more than what SJM did with Chaol so as much as people will hate what I'm about to say, Gwyn will probably be used to develop the Elriel romance. (Don't get me wrong, I like Gwyn as a character but there's nothing between her and Azriel🤷‍♀️)
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yazthebookish · 2 years
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Tbh I don't need to look at any Gwynriel theories to be sure that Gwynriel is endgame. I just reread Acosf and the bonus chapter and I see how El/riel is not the ship Sarah would ever go for. She herself said that she doesn't like alpha guys who feel the need to protect their women- she even made fun of that through Bryce in CC and Azriel is literally Mr. "I won't let her do dangerous sh*t, even if she asks for it" whenever it's about Elain and Mor. But he sees Gwyn as a warrior, refuses to see her as the victim he saved 2 years ago and actually believes in her. El/riels can romantize that scene where Azriel "saved" Elain in Hybern and brag about how he doesn't care about Gwyn during the blood rite all they want (meaning that he also wouldn't care about Emerie and Nesta but okay), but they shouldn't forget the fact that every other Sjm male were all fine when their women were in danger. Of course they cared and got shit scared for them, but they chose to believe in them. Azriel doesn't let Elain help the IC, even though she asked for it. Worse- he did it behind her back. Lucien was the only one who congratulated Elain for killing the Hybern King (This scene reminded me of Lorcan when he congratulated Elide for 'killing' Erawan and Elide told him that it was Yrene who did it. Same with Elain telling him that it was Nesta who killed the King)
So I don't really need to look at any theories or get nervous whenever I see an El/riel theory. Just looking at what Sarah has said and wrote (so far she gave more Elucien and Gwynriel hints). That's it.
Exactly.
No matter how many theories they spin, look at what Sarah wrote. In the early days I questioned some of the theories I came up with when I read ACOSF he first time, but every time I go back to the books I still hold on to those theories because it's obvious where Sarah is going with this.
Sure some may have been attached to their ship for years, that doesn't mean Sarah will have to reward them with it especially when she actually gave an intimate scene for them for the first time and through one of the couple's POV, it wasn't even related romantic there were red flags and Sarah was showing how wrong they are for each other. They were never a romantic pair to begin with or had any substance like Nesta and Cassian.
This is coming from who was once a neutral reader. It's painfully obvious Sarah is going with Azriel and Gwyn, if that was not the case then you wouldn't see them desperately clinging to the Lightsinger theory and comparing Gwyn to a sexual predator like Ianthe.
Anyone that read all of Sarah's books and paid attention to the endgame couples are familiar with how she writes a couple and how she likes her couples to be like. One of the biggest red flags is when the love interest coddles the heroine, stifles her growth, and takes her choice away. There is no justification to Azriel taking Elain's choice away by telling the IC to not let her scry after she expressed her choice of wanting to help.
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hacawijo · 3 years
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The Most Story/Technical/Writing-related Reasons I Think Elriel Will Happen
AND Why Comparing Elain/Azriel to Nesryn/Chaol doesn’t make a ton of sense
Chaol and Nesryn, in the Throne of Glass series, did not have the stakes and chemistry set up by the story for the switch to Chaorene and Nestaq to not make sense. See reblogged post below from @mardereads19 for my inspiration - such a concise and helpful layout!!!! Thank you! And thank you to the poster who inspired them 🤪😌
Chaol and Nesryn-
— Stands to Gain —
— their individual happiness in romantic love/a successful relationship with someone in whom they’ve indicated romantic interest.
— for Chaol - the opportunity to move on from Aelin and be happy without her
— for Nesryn - aside from finding happiness re: above, nesryn doesn’t stand to gain anything more specific from their relationship (as far as we know up until the next book - we don’t know enough about her for her personal stakes to be significant to us)
— Obstacles —
— Chaol’s self-blame and self-loathing
— Chaol’s still healing heart after Aelin (but, NOT the possibility of Chaol and Aelin re-entering into a romantic relationship)
— the stress of their duties and responsibilities (I.e. needing to focus on getting support for the war with the valg)
— Overarching Consequences —
there is nothing about the two of them being together that will have overreaching negative side effects on many other people as of the end of the prior novel.
——
NOW, Chaol and Yrene - their stakes and consequences did need to be mapped out over one book, so we’ll talk about them as of the first 2/3rds of the book or so, bearing in mind that that is much less time to build effective stakes for a couple (not that it’s not doable, but the stakes are automatically less for the audiences if they can go through the initiation and resolution in one book).
Except they had the added help of four prior books with Chaol as a main POV character - thus his character’s personal stakes are higher.
— Stands to Gain —
— Chaol - his physical, emotional, and mental healing are directly rooted in his relationship with Yrene. He stands to lose any shred of hope, health, closure, and possibility of leg mobility that he has left. (We have absolute confirmation of this from Chaol’s direct POV)
— Yrene - the opportunity to come to terms with her anger and sorrow over the loss of her mother and country by opening up to a man who was not personally responsible for any of it but who was intrinsically linked to those who were (a personal stake we have absolute confirmation of from Yrene’s POV in the book)
— For Both - the chance to have a loving, successful relationship and life together with someone they love.
— Obstacles —
— Yrene’s (not unreasonable) prejudice against Adarlan
— Chaol’s self-blame, self-loathing, and general belief that he can’t and shouldn’t be happy. And his frustration with his legs and recovery process.
— Prince Kashin’s interest in and proposal to Yerene; as well as Yrene’s relationship with Hasar and the rest of the royal family.
— Chaol’s relationship with and obligation to Nesryn.
— The physical distance between their regular homes and duties and their commitment to those duties as taking priority over everything else.
— Overarching Consequences —
- the loss of Kashin’s support and thus the loss of the empire’s military and aid and support in the war with the Valg.
SO, as you can see, Yrene and Chaol’s relationship ultimately had more for them to gain, overcome, and risk, thanks to Sarah’s writing, but also thanks to Nesryn and Chaol as characters and in their very specific circumstances. If Chaol and Aelin had still been a viable relationship by the start of this book, it would have been VERY difficult to establish a successful HEA between Chaol and Yrene.
NOW, let’s compare Elriel, Elucien, and Gwynriel- I think you’ll find that Elriel has the highest stakes, followed by Elucien, and then Gwynriel. AGAIN, this is not to say that those stakes couldn’t be altered over the course of the next book (though POV confirmations will probably inform this a lot), but it would take much more work and page acreage.
Elriel:
— Stands to Gain —
- For both - personal happiness in a loving and successful relationship with someone they love or are at least deeply attracted to/interested in as confirmed by Azriel’s POV chapter and Elain’s arousal and supported by 3.5 books worth of (let’s call it) circumstantial evidence 🙃
- Azriel - the chance to move on from Mor and feelings of loneliness and lack of self-worth he’s had for 500 years. (Hopefully - we have partial confirmation of this gain given scattered evidence from Azriel’s POV chapter and that cassian and others have noticed that Azriel doesn’t pine after mor as much/at all anymore and in moments in the text where Elain has specifically not recoiled from him/judged him - I.e. seeing his scarred hands)
- Elain - the chance to find a partner she loves and would choose and who loves and accepts her for who she is now and will be in the future (hopefully - we have partial confirmation of this gain given the evidence that she chose to pursue romantic/sexual physical touch with Azriel in that moment in the bonus chapter and the moments where it has been explicitly stated that Azriel sees Elain/notices things about her that others don’t)
- For both (but moreso for Azriel than Elain) - the chance to be with someone who will not take them away from their home and will in fact connect them even more with their brothers/sisters, current loved ones, and friends.
— Obstacles —
- Elain’s mating bond with another male that is not (yet) broken
- Her bond with a male who is essential to the continued safety and peace of the night court/their home and who is close with Feyre, and who is a genuinely good person who doesn’t deserve to be hurt.
- Rhys, his high lord and superior, forbidding Azriel from spending time with Elain.
- the remnants of Azriel’s feelings for Mor and Elain’s feelings for Graysen.
- Azriel’s belief in his lack of worthiness for Elain (see: Bonus Chapter POV)
- Azriel’s work as spymaster as a priority and the dangers both he and Elain face as a powerful Illyrian with a dangerous job and a Made female high fae who can wield/access the cauldron and related objects, who sees the future, and whose existence is known by malevolent forces.
- Potential misunderstanding around Azriel regifting Elain’s necklace to Gwyn.
— Overarching Consequences —
- Blood duel - the potential death of Azriel and/or Lucien in a duel put forth either by Lucien or forced by his not actual father.
- the potential loss of support from the spring court, the day court and/or the band of exiles as well as the potential end of a shaky neutrality with the autumn court and secret alliance with Eris. All of which could lead to war and the deaths of everyone in the night court.
Elucien -
— Stands to Gain —
- For both - personal happiness in a loving and successful relationship with someone they love. (And this is generously assuming mutual interest of which we truly do not have confirmation)
- For Elain - relief from her loneliness/ feeling of being unseen (hopefully - see above parenthetical)
- For Lucien - relief from his loneliness/feeling of being unappreciated (hopefully - see above parenthetical)
- A successful mating bond for both of them
— Obstacles —
- Elain’s now-confirmed sexual/potentially romantic feelings for Azriel
- Elain’s residual feelings for Graysen
- Lucien’s potential feelings for Vassa
- Current physical distance of the places they call home.
- Displayed lack of chemistry/mutual interest/trust/effective communication/understanding
— Consequences —
- Maybe violence between Lucien and Azriel but that seems much less likely than in the case of Elriel.
Gwynriel
— Stands to Gain —
- For both - personal happiness in a loving and successful relationship with someone they love. (And this is generously assuming mutual interest of which we truly do not have confirmation)
- Azriel - the chance to move on from Mor and feelings of loneliness and lack of self-worth he’s had for 500 years (hopefully- not much evidence one way or another that he would gain this from a relationship with Gwyn (one way or another!! Not saying a relationship with Gwyn COULDN’T help him gain those things))
- Gwyn - the chance to move on from her past trauma and be happy with someone who appreciates her and whom she implicitly trusts (hopefully - not much evidence one way or another - see above)
— Obstacles —
- Azriel’s residual feelings for Mor
- Azriel’s current and enflamed feelings for Elain and their reciprocation
- Gwyn’s lack of interest in romantic companionship either because she’s not interested in it or because of her trauma (we have no confirmation from the text that Gwyn even wants a romantic relationship - let alone the reasons she may or may not have for the answer to that question)
- HALF OBSTACLE - Azriel’s potential belief in his lack of worthiness for a romantic relationship with anyone (I’m calling this a half-obstacle because we don’t actually have confirmation that Azriel believes he is unworthy of anyone and/or Gwyn - we only have confirmation that he believes himself unworthy of touching Elain and the perspective of others that he believes he doesn’t deserve Mor)
— Overarching Consequences —
- A potential fracture in Azriel’s relationship with someone who does not want to see Elain hurt (and even this loses teeth because Nesta is the most likely person to turn on Azriel for this and she loves Gwyn just about as much as she loves Elain, so it would be very difficult for her to assert a position either way) ALSO, this consequence isn’t relevant to Elriel because, as of now, we do not have confirmation that Gwyn even has feelings for Azriel so there’s no saying she would be heartbroken if he entered into a relationship with Elain, and certainly it would not be the same level of distress as it would be for Elain since Elain and Azriel have already declared interest in each other.
Alrighty, so, this is not a 100% reassurance of anything, but it’s important to think about plot and the work Sarah will have to do over 700 pages. If Gwynriel is endgame, she will need to address all of the gains and obstacles around Elriel (because it has been established throughout the books and confirmed as a relationship by the bonus chapter) and THEN build larger gains and more dramatic obstacles and consequences for Gwynriel that rival Elriel in emotional and world stakes, and THEN overcome those obstacles in a way that is satisfying and that leads to satisfying gains for the characters.
For an Elriel book, however, most of the gains have already been established by previous books and would thus not require as much development and the obstacles have already been established and could be addressed immediately (as in they would not need to be further outlined).
That’s a lot less stuff to get done in the same amount of book. One thing that could help Gwynriel in this case is if they had an added subplot in another book that actually comes before the Elain/Azriel/Lucien resolution (I.e. a book about Mor) and a lot of work was done there first as well as in the main plot book. That would still take a lot more emotional work for the characters and reader than to pursue and resolve Elriel.
The reason it was different for Chaol and Yrene is that there was not a particularly well-established relationship/ship story for Nesryn and Chaol as much as there is for Elain and Azriel (tbh, Chaol’s relationship with Aelin was probably a deeper emotional obstacle in his relationship with Yrene) AND we had already had 4 books of POV character development for Chaol. Whether you liked him or not, we had spent a lot of time with his character and he was one of the first three main characters in the series - we knew a lot about him.
On the other hand, Azriel has only had one bonus POV chapter (the rest of what we know about him being second- or third-hand through the perspective of other characters) and he will have had about 3.5 books of development before his starring book (unless his book is not next) and then it was only as a side character. The same can be said for Elain, though without the bonus POV chapter and with a bit more book-mileage for us to go on. We only have one book of side character development for Gwyn (though it is perhaps more significant than the average of Az and Elain’s 2nd- and 3rd- degree perceptions from other characters as Az and Elain spend a lot of time in the other books as tertiary characters (Mor or Rhys is to Feyre what Gwyn is to Nesta, Elain or Azriel is to Feyre what Elain or Azriel is to Nesta).
So, total, as readers we do ultimately have a little more stake in Elain and Azriel as individual characters and combined (based on length of establishment in the series and level of involvement in the series) than we do in Azriel and Gwyn combined. But more than either of those couples, we had stake in Chaol and Yrene because, again, we’d been with Chaol as a main POV character for 4 prior books, and Yrene is a POV character in the book in question. It is definitely possible that Gwyn will at least also become a POV character for the next book/books, but there is not as much evidence to support that as there is to support that Elain will become a POV character (given what Sarah has said in lives, Elain’s establishment as a character and the fulfillment of the three sisters’ POVs, the Feyre bonus chapter’s focus on Elain, Elain’s totally unresolved role in Azriel’s bonus chapter, and the general lack of resolution for all of her character’s secondary and tertiary growth in ACOSF as opposed to the amount of closure with which Gwyn finishes the book).
As for Elucien, even more work would need to be done to develop their stakes in each other than in Gwynriel, because from what we can possibly know based on text and secondary and tertiary perspectives of their relationship they are actually DISINCLINED toward each other. At least Azriel and Gwyn have an established, positive rapport.
So these are the real technical, plot-y reasons that I believe the Elriel situation is very different from the Chaol&Nesryn situation, and much more likely to happen than Elucien and/or Gwynriel. Wow this is long, but I hope it reassures some of you and creates opportunities for respectful thought and discussion between shippers!
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evalinashryver · 3 years
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A Mysterious Stranger: thoughts on Gwyn’s unknown father
Gwyneth Berdara: our lovely cinnammon roll who could actually kill you who was introduced in ACOSF and who took the fandom by storm. She’s strong, brave, good and optimistic despite a dark past, a great friend that Nesta desperately needed. Her potential as a character is extraordinary, both because of the development and healing she needs to undergo, her connection with the Valkyries and Nesta and a very mysterious — and interesting! — family tree.
@yazthebookish​ did a great meta elaborating on Gwyn's maternal bloodline, connecting her with the Autumn Court and, more specifically, to Eris, which you can find and read (here). As you can guess by the title, we’ll not be diving into that side of the family, but rather about the mysterious stranger who so happens to be her father. 
Firstly, I want to clarify that we actually have almost no information on Gwyn's father except for this one line in ACOSF: I, we—my sister and I, I mean—were the result of that sacred union with a male stranger. If we apply Occam's Razor to try and figure out his identity, the solution that covers all available data and makes the fewest leaps of logic is that this mysterious male is just that: a mysterious male, irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. 
But let's be honest— we all know how unlikely that is in a fantasy and ficiton setting. How many books out there do we have where a character’s unknown father (because yes, it’s hardly ever the mothers) turns out to be of relevance? And SJM does love to give her character something extra, something more, that makes them stand out from those surrouding them.
 Look at ToG: how many of them either came from important bloodlines or were blessed by some kind of God? Aelin and Dorian are royals and a descendant of Mala herself; Yrene, introduced a novella and expanded upon Tower of Dawn, comes from an ancient line of healers dating centuries back; the key players are nearly all tied to some deity. 
 In ACoTaR itself, both Azriel and Cassian don't really come from special bloodlines (that we know of), but are extremely powerful to make up for it. The Archeron sisters? Their father was the Prince of Merchants, and there may be something else to their bloodline that we don’t yet know like, say, being descendants of the Fae who imprisoned Koschei. Feyre ended the curse and a silver of the High Lord’s magic, Nesta took from the Cauldron when she went down, and it loved Elain so much it voluntarily gave her more. 
So let's put in our tinfoil hats and ask: what if Gwyn's paternal side is more than what it appears to be?
We all know Sarah loves Mythology and folklore and is constantly lifting things directly from it, be it names or concepts. Sometimes she picks and chooses and blends them together to create her own thing, other times she doesn’t even bother as much. Nyx's own name, for instance, or the High King Fionn, from the Irish legend of Fionn mac Cumhaill. 
It’s fairly common in mythology and folklore for deities and supernatural beings to take different guises and seduce different women, then disappear and leaving them behind with a child, unbeknownst to them. Some already know from the start, but other times, the child grows up and only learns of their parentage when fate comes calling. 
There's one god I'd like to call attention to, though. One norse God who is known to wander through the nine worlds, with a nearly insatiable thirst for knowledge: Odin. Wait, Ella, why Odin, of all of them? Because the Valkyries are his daughters. It's true that ACoTaR's Valkyries more closely mirror the Amazons than the Norse Valkyries themselves, but the connection is still there. And who brought the Valkyries up first, questioned why they didn't use Valkyrie technics (even though Nesta suggested mixing it with th Illyrians), and perhaps most symbolic, she was the first to cut the ribbon.
Gwyn, first of the new Valkyries.
We know from Sarah's multiverse that there are ways to travel between worlds; in ACoTaR, the harp itself allows one to open any door; in ToG, we have the wyrdkeys and the gates. So what if Gwyn's father was one such worldwaker, who just so happened to be passing by then? This could potentially tie her in with the greater forces at work, the otherworldly beings which Koschei and the Bone Carver are a part of. A child of secret knowledge.
That's the first assumption/idea. The second one is the other reason why I selected Odin: in the Norse versions of the story, he's the leader of Wild Hunt. ACoSF introduces us to the concept in the verse, this is what we know of it: "The Wild Hunt was a way to keep all of us in line. They’d gather a host of their fiercest, most merciless warriors and grant them free rein to kill as they pleased."
What's even funnier is that Odin, despite our current image of him, was far more related to the more berserker warriors and the frenzy of the combat. The Valkyries, the choosers of the slain, picked the most valiant and fiercest of warriors, half of whom became einherjar— and here I'd like to point out that they stemmed or were influenced probably from a common source, as the Wild Hunt is a ghostly horde (that does not seem to be the case in ACOTAR, but the connection is there).
Which brings me to another possibility: what if Gwyn's father is one the Daglan? We know they were cast down and hunted down, likely by Fionn (Rhys says that this one of the strains, but I'm going to go with it being true to Prythian), but just like there were Fae who fought with the humans in the Great War, were there not Daglan who sided with the Fae and Humans? We know that after they were cast down, the Fae hunt them down and imprisoned them, slowly, but how many managed to survive and live out there, in hiding? Even if they were not evil, the Daglan were demonized. Just like the Fae imprisoned Amren for thinking her one of their enemies, they could have turned against the Daglan who actually helped them.
The Daglan are, to me, inspired by the Fomorians who are described to be gods associated with the destructive powers of nature, being in direct opposition to the other race of gods, who are associated with more positive things. They also dwelled under the sea or under the earth. Cassian gives us Lubia as a seamonster. But under the Earth? We have the halls of the Prison, Under the Mountain, Hewn City... And yet unexplored Ramiel. With how the Hewn City designs were connected to the hounds of the hunt, these to me were important places of the Daglan of old. They might've even held the Dread Trove, once upon a time, and maybe Ramiel still does, or at least a clue towards it.
Gwyn being half-Daglan could neatly connect her to the overarching plot of the series, which seems to be going further into how the world was before the Fae took rulership. It would also tie her in with the otherworldly beings and plot that's emerging, and allow her to play a greater role. Would she be able to scry the fourth trove? No, but she and Azriel — because I firmly believe the next book is his — might be able to figure out and unveil the shadows surrounding the fourth trove.
This is very tinfoil-y and I'll readily admit that, but it's a thought that grabbed me and won't let go so I'm throwing it out there! Enjoy!
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sunndy2 · 3 years
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ACOTAR- CC- TOG
This is my attempt to compare and relate the characters of ToG, Acotar and CC. There are obviously spoilers for all series
Yrene - Hypaxia: The two healer queens. I think that's very obvious. Yrene and Hypaxia are both healers. Hypaxia is literally a queen and Yrene is one at heart. Both are incredibly strong women and especially with Hypaxia, I'm excited to see where her journey will take her.
Azriel - Elide: I would love to see these two interact, so whoever would write a FanFiciton on this, I would be very grateful. I also find this very obvious. Both have been physically and mentally abused by a family member and both think they are not good enough. (Elide really thought she could do Aelin's laundry...). I think they could both relate to each other's trauma in a way that few other characters could.
Gwyn - Fenrys:  First of all, Fenrys deserves all the happiness and love in the world. He is such an underrated character. Secondly, Gwyn and Fenrys are almost 1:1 the same character. I also considered comparing Fenrys to Rhysand, but I got someone else for Rhysand. To begin with, the most obvious: Fenrys and Gwyn have both lost a twin. Both had to watch the twin die. Both were sexually abused. Both were so introverted after the death that they did not speak. (In Fenrys case, it was partly because of what he had to watch happen). Gwyn and Fenrys both have incredibly big hearts and are there for their friends when they are not well. They overcome one of their biggest fears for their friends and push their own problems aside. Not to mention, I love them both to death and so wish we read a lot more about both of them.
Lysandra - Rhysand: I don't know if that would surprise anyone but I see great parallels in both characters. Lysandra and Rhysand were both sexually abused and in both cases it was assumed that they did it willingly. Both seemed like the "bad guy" at the beginning. Lysandra was portrayed as Celeana's biggest rival in "the Assassins Blade" and it's not until part 4 that you get to know her better and start to love her. It was similar with Rhysand. He was introduced as the villain in Acotar. He was supposed to be the one to be afraid of. It's only later that we really get to know him and learn that there's more behind his facade.Both hide behind a facade. Lysandra and also Rhysand are called whores at the beginning. They hide their true intentions to protect those they love and care about. They both have to hide their true abilities (flying, shape-shifting) for a very long time. They have lost and given up so much in their lives. 
Amren - Manon - Fury: What else can I say about the three of them? All three are deadly, dangerous and unapproachable. They act as if they hate everything and everyone, but actually they have a big heart. They don't often show feelings and when they do, it's usually only for a specific person (or wyvern). I love Manon and Fury (Amren has never been my cup of tea, I'm sorry).
Hunt - Cassian: The two are so similar somewhere. Hunt and Cassian have both been trained to kill and lead armies. They are basically known everywhere for being deadly. At the same time, they both lost their mothers and experienced exclusion as children. Cassian in particular isn't always taken very seriously in the fandom, which I think is a shame because there's a lot more to him than just being the funny guy. Cassian and Hunt are so normal at the same time, which I really liked as a reader. They can admit mistakes, make jokes and protect. They also respect and accept their partner's space and understand the trauma that Nesta and Bryce have been through. Both of them give them the strength, time and support they need. 
Lorcan - Nesta:  I am a huge Nesta fan but find Lorcan only so mediocre. Still, I think both are more similar than many believe. Both have the power of death. Nesta is literally called the Goddess of Death. Nesta's behavior also reminds me a lot of Lorcan. For most, she seems quite aloof, bad-tempered and cold. Lorcan as well. Lorcan made a big mistake and apologized to Aelin and the others for it, just as Nesta did. Both have their partner for whom they would do anything. (Lorcan has hung his lifespan on Elide's and Nesta has altered her body so she can have Illyrian babies someday). In addition, both feel a strong bond with their closest friends (although Lorcan would never admit it, it is often clear that Rowan is very important to him as a friend).
Now these are just rough thoughts that came to me last night. I hope they make sense somehow.
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