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sailormoonandme · 11 months

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Long Rant Incoming!

I am honestly just exhausted with how the Sailor Moon fandom so often bashes the original anime, in particular when they do so by presuming bigotry of any kind on the part of the staff members.

Sure, show me a quote or an interview where they definitively say something and I will listen with an open mind.

But why does this fandom presume that, for example, AnimeRei’s interest in men was obviously changed from the MangaRei’s more negative attitude because of sexism?

Or that Usagi being naked in the last episode whilst Mamoru was in his Endymion armour was again rooted in sexism?

Or that old favourite that has now become oh so trendy again thanks to Cosmos, that the Starlights were physically male in the anime (as opposed to simply dressing as men and pretending to be men) because the anime staff were being homophobic. More specifically, that this change was implemented so that the UsagixSeiya relationship was ‘less gay’.

Let’s talk a bit about that shall we?

So....

The original 1992 Sailor Moon anime had two men explicitly in a relationship in season 1, Kunzite and Zoisite.

It had two women explicitly in a relationship in season 3, Haruka and Michiru.

It had a character in season 4 who, to my understanding (please correct me on this as I am not overly knowledgeable on the subject), was trans, Fisheye.

When you go beyond the explicit into merely very obvious subtext, Sailor Moon’s track record for LGBT representation gets even larger. The pair of female animators in episode 21. Fiore and Mamoru’s relationship in the R movie. The fashion designer and his assistant in episode 140. Sailor Lead Crow and Aluminium Siren’s relationship.

Not to mention the UsaRei ship:

Or the MakAmi ship:

It’d be weird for a show with this kind of track record (that was indeed a trailblazer in the context of the time) to suddenly got cold feet over another female-female relationship.

Now there are two counter arguments to this:

a) Most of the above doesn’t apply specifically to Sailor Moon herself, the UsaRei ship being subtextual for this very reason. In other words ‘its okay for side characters’

b) Sailor Stars was under new management. It is entirely possible said new management had very different attitudes towards female-female relationships

Let’s tackle a) first.

It’s okay to portray side characters in same sex relationships

First of all, Usagi was attracted to Haruka in episode 92. Even after she discovered Haruka was (in her eyes at least) a cis woman she still regarded her as attractive and desirable, usually blushing whenever Haruka flirted with her and being all too happy to dance with Haruka in episode 108.

Isn’t it a little weird to argue it would be bad for Usagi to be dating another woman when there wasn’t a world of difference between how Seiya in the manga and Haruka in the anime were framed and presented to the audience.

The main difference was that in the manga Seiya was explicitly pretending to be male and therefore would not have corrected anyone’s presumptions that she was a man, which is exactly what Haruka did at the end of episode 92 when Usagi and Minako discover Haruka is not a cis boy.

Whilst we might argue that the character of MangaSeiya would have presented herself differently had she not needed to disguise herself, from a narrative POV if the anime had stuck with Seiya being biologically female she would have had to maintain that disguise for the overwhelming majority of episodes anyway. In other words, she would have been presenting herself as a cis male the entire time outside of Sailor Senshi fights.

Second of all, the anime was still explicitly shipping Usagi and Seiya even after the big reveal in episode 188 where the Senshi and Starlights discover one another’s identities. In fact, episode 189 has Minako explicitly state that the Starlights are in fact girls:

Now, whilst Minako regards this as a dealbreaker for her own romantic affections for the Three Lights, Usagi is still obviously conflicted about her feelings for Seiya. This culminates in episode 194′s famous “Am I not enough?” scene and their conversation in episode 195 where Usagi lets Seiya down backstage and he kisses her goodbye on her cheek.

Before episode 194 the show was going hard on this ‘star-crossed lovers’ imagery and ideas, with the Starlights and Outer Senshi trying to pull the pair apar. Seiya even communicated to Usagi at night whilst she is in her bedroom , which imo is deliberately evoking Romeo and Juliet. Moreover, the animation frankly framing the pair in a romantic light, with plenty of blushes and soft lighting liberally appearing all over the place.

Sure, on screen you have a biological woman and biological man. But the show has explicitly stated that that Seiya is not a man, or at least from Usagi’s POV that isn’t the case.

Now one could argue that this is nevertheless reductive. After all, you still have a female role assigned and a male role assigned in the relationship. But again...how different is this really from Haruka and Michiru who are present and as explicitly romantic as ever in Sailor Stars?

In terms of ‘presenting’ as male or female Haruka and Seiya are in the same boat 99% of the time (the 1% is for episodes involving bathing outfits or other forms of partial nudity). Most of the time Haruka visually presents as (for its day) typically masculine until she assumes her Senshi form where she presents as more typically (again, for its day) female. The only difference between the two characters is that the viewer intellectually knows that Seiya has a penis that becomes a vagina whereas Haruka always has a vagina. But since in both cases we never see those particular pieces of anatomy it is a moot point.

So the argument that ‘on screen’ Usagi is not being shipped with a woman is irrelevant. To all practical purposes, from a purely visual POV she might as well have been shipped with someone just like Haruka. It didn’t make it ‘more acceptable’ at all. In particular when you consider the show heavily implies that Seiya’s male body was nothing more than a guise assumed on Earth for the sake of their mission. So, had anyone been extrapolating forwards Usagi and Seiya potentially forming a long term relationship, Usagi would have been in a relationship with someone who was biologically female anyway.

Third of all, the ‘side character’ argument falls apart when you consider HOW popular Uranus and Neptune were. In Animage’s 1995 poll episode 110 "Death of Uranus and Neptune!? Talismans Appear" was voted the most popular episode. A major reason why SuperS was so unpopular was because the Outer’s were absent, which is why the very first episode of Sailor Stars practically revolves around them. Hell, exempting Usagi, of all the Solar System Sailor Senshi, Uranus and Neptune are the last ones standing, dying in the third to last episode of the entire show.

This isn’t even mentioning HOW prominent they were in season 3. Like, sure, they weren’t the MAIN characters, but until Hotaru shows up, they were by far and away the most important characters in the show just behind Usagi. Sailor Moon S as a whole is ostensibly one great big ideological debate between Usagi’s idealistic philosophy and Haruka and Michiru’s more hardline realistic philosophy.

To codify them as ‘side characters’ in the context of season 3 is akin to describing Mamoru or Chibi-Usa as side characters in the manga. That is to say, the difference between them and Usagi is a matter of mere degrees. Are we in all seriousness arguing that those degrees make the difference between how okay it is to present characters as part of female-female relationships? That’s rather ridiculous isn’t it?

Let’s move on to point b).

The new management didn’t like same-sex relationships

Yes. It is entirely possible that the new management had very different attitudes towards female-female relationships than the people in charge of the prior four seasons of the show. Thus the representation present in the prior four seasons doesn’t excuse season 5 of being homophobic in its decision to make the Starlights biologically male.

You know what else is entirely possible? That there were any number of other reasons for that decision apart from homophobia.

Again, I’m willing to listen with an open mind to anyone that has a statement or an interview or something like that from production staff members that might support the above interpretation. But in over ten years of being a Sailor Moon fan I have yet to see anything that implies this rather damning motivation on the part of the production staff. At which point why is anyone at all just presuming the worst faith interpretation?

Here are some good faith interpretations for why the Starlights were biologically male:

- Making them biologically male could raise a bit of intrigue on the part of the viewers. Even if they figured magic was the reason how they could change from male to female, they’d still be enticed to watch to see the process in action. Which would be even more intriguing compared to four seasons of transformation sequences where girls simply put on new Senshi outfits.

- Making them male made it easier for writers to generate the show’s all important filler episodes and opened up more storytelling opportunities.

If the Starlights are biologically female it would mean either scrapping episodes or scenes where the Starlights are involved in partial nudity. Case in point, episode 178 where Luna is revealed to have taken a bath with Yaten, episode 183 where the gang vacation at a lake and are in their bathing suits, episode 184 where the gang see Seiya getting out of the shower, or even episode 176 where the Starlights are in dance outfits which naturally are tight fitting and therefore do not leave much to the imagination.

Perhaps these instances could have still happened with the Starlights as biological females, but it would have been trickier and required a lot more strategic thinking on the part of the overworked writers who were on a deadline. Making them male frankly just made their lives easier

- The anime staff might have simply believed that the idea of three women disguising themselves as men and maintaining such a secret amidst becoming super star idols, attending high school, etc was simply unconvincing, too big of a suspension of disbelief.

- Making them biologically male might have been a ‘creative flex’. What do I mean by this? Simply put it is not at all uncommon for people adapting a piece of media to throw something in of their own invention.

This might happen out of boredom on the part of the people adapting the source material (it can potentially be dull merely replicating something) or it could occur due to ego (see the majority of modern MCU films and TV shows that change no end of things from the comic books).

Ego, unfortunately is all too common amongst creative people, especially those who have made it professionally into the entertainment industry. There is a desire by many to put their stamp on a work, even if it is not a work of their own creation per se.

This may well be the root of several other changes between the manga and the anime too, regardless of whether those changes have anything to do with gender, sexuality, female representation of other such issues.

- Making them biologically males who transform into biological females, in the eyes of the production staff, might have been more avant garde and progressive towards the LGBT community as it rendered the characters as arguably trans or gender fluid characters.

- And finally...it may well have just been a mistake. The manga and anime were produced simultaneously but also at very different paces, the manga releasing monthly vs the anime’s weekly schedule.

Between Takeuchi’s busy production schedule, not to mention however else she was involved in the (by then massive) Sailor Moon brand, it is entirely possible that she either hadn’t decided upon, or simply miscommunicated her ideas for the Starlights, thus resulting in the anime staff misunderstanding her intentions or extrapolating them to be biological men in their civilian forms.

Indeed, Takeuchi herself misunderstood the Starlights in the anime as she apparently missed the dialogue that implied they were biological females who used magic to become biological males for their mission on Earth. She instead got upset that they were men who were Sailor Senshi.

Now, I came up with the above off the top of my head and don’t have any hard evidence in support of any of it. Which means they all carry just as much weight as the ‘obviously it was bigotry’ interpretation.

And, once again, I have to bring up the fact that Sailor Stars features Uranus and Neptune in a relationship and arguably even ramps up their flirtations compared to season 3. So, kinda weird that they’d include one female-female relationship in season 5 but would be apprehensive over another one.

In conclusion

Can we as a fandom please just fucking STOP automatically presuming the worst of the original anime and its production staff?

Seriously, its really, really, really, really WEIRD!

More than weird though, it is simply unfair.

It is unjust.

It is hateful, even.

Which is particularly ironic since this is a franchise literally built around a character who stands for...well...you know...

#Sailor Moon #Sailor Stars #seiya kou #kou seiya #sailor star fighter #sailor starfighter #Sailor Star-Fighter #SeiUsa #usagi tsukino #tsukino usagi #naoko takeuchi #sailor starlights #HARUKA TENOH #TENOH HARUKA #Sailor Uranus #sailor neptune #Michiru Kaioh #Harumichi #kaioh michiru

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techouspeaks · 4 years

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Chaggie: The Troublesome Ship?

I read an interesting Tweet about how hard does a lesbian canon shipping have to prove it’s authenticity. Which yeah I kinda agree and kinda disagree especially the replies over it. One person of course, says it’s the homophobia. Which isn’t completely true. I don’t ship Chaggie but I do have gay OCs and I will ship a couple no matter the sexuality is. I dare you to read more below on that than storm off and not read the rest.

Another interesting and most common replies to the tweet brought up another issue that I do have to agree on and kinda disagree. Basically, I have conflicted feelings about it and that’s the fact that yeah, apparently if the couple aren’t touchy feely all the time, they’re not a good couple. Which I do agree, that’s bullshit. They don’t need to be all over each other all the time just to be a couple. I totally agree with this, but at the same time and I say this and I ship Charlie with Baxter and they haven’t even met in the show and comic, I’ll be perfectly honest about it. If I didn’t know that Charlie and Vaggie were a couple, I wouldn’t have suspected them to be.

The only real canon hint of romance between the two is the background photo of them in one shot. Other than that, I could easily think the two were just friends and apparently, other people thought this too, including non fans that watch the pilot without even reading about it. Watch some reaction videos of those that went in without knowing any background info, some people reacted to them as just being friends. A lot of fans in the comments below said videos, often had to tell them that Chaggie was a cannon thing.

This is because, while it’s true, a couple doesn’t need to be on top of each other to show they’re a couple, there needs to be something a little more on the nose, at least once in a while. Like in one scene that was cut out in an old storyboard, Vaggie comes over to Charlie and they look at each other sweetly and in kind of dreamy way as she held her arm gently, right after Alastor agrees to Charlie’s request. That could have indicated the relationship a little more and that’s just a settle thing. For some, it’s not that there needs to be a lot of feely moments, but there should be at least one or two. I mean some can argue that there’s plenty with how they comfort each other, but some could easily argue back that friends can interact the same way.

Shoot, in the beginning, She-Ra 2018 got the same issue. Even full on supporters of the LGBT+ Community said that season 1 of She-Ra didn’t felt like the relationships were legit because they can easily mistake any of the pairings as friendships and they felt they needed to drop, not big hints but hints that are more on the nose. A kiss. (Not on top, smoocharama but a single one.) Just something that kinda separates that fine line between friendship and actual romance.

Review and interview of that found here

For me, though, even with the cute moments and pictures of the two together as a couple that Viv has drawn, I just see Chaggie as okay. I just don’t feel for them right now but I also know it’s canon and I respect that. I know my headcannons are just for fun and not cannon and that’s fine. I rarely ship cannon anyway, straight or gay! More than half the time in fandoms, I spend my time in my fan ideas anyway just because I like being creative! I like the what ifs and what could bes. That makes me happy and in the end that’s what matters the most. Whatever makes you happy!

It’s true that fans do go overboard and believe that their headcannon is cannon no matter what, which, no it will never will be, but even cannon fans also have their monstrous side too, like again thinking someone is homophobic just because they can’t get into cannon ship that happens to be gay or lesbian. Does that make you heterophobic if don’t agree with a straight cannon couple? Course not! Because there’s a lot of straight cannon couples I can’t really get into myself! Prime example, Shaoran and Sakura from Cardcaptor Sakura and Tsubasa Chronicles. They announce their love and they have the chemistry for it, but I find their relationship as Chaggie. I think it’s a decent relationship but I can’t get into it. I don’t find them nearly as interesting as my headcannon ships and shoot, even my OCs that I ship with each other.

I know a lot of Sailor Moon fans are gonna hate me, but I honestly am one of the few that thinks UsagiXSeiya are more interesting than UsagiXMamoru. Even with UsagiXMamoru’s chemistry. So sometimes, it’s not even just about if there’s enough chemistry. Some just don’t find a couple as interesting!

To be fair, being an extreme anything, isn’t healthy no matter what side you’re on! For me, everyone needs to know two things. One, headcannons are just that. Headcannons, They’re NOT cannon unless the rare times they become cannon but again. That’s rare. Don’t hold your breath! Just accept it and just have fun!

And two, just because it’s cannon, doesn’t make it sacred! They’re not untouchable! They’re a fictional couple created for the entertainment of the people and to show the writer/artist’s creative vision. It is not the law of some holy deity from above. It’s all for entertainment. It’s all for fun. There’s no need to be upset if someone doesn’t agree with the cannon. I mean we’re all geeks in our own right and we do rage sometimes, but there’s no need to be toxic about it!

I know I stepped on quite a few toes or might have and I apologize for it. I will not link the tweets cuz I’m not that kind of person. I made this to get some thoughts out of my head. Not to call out on anybody personally! That and Twitter wouldn’t allow the room for my thoughts anyway!

#hazbin hotel #hazbin charlie #hazbin vaggie #vaggie #chalastor

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