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#Tolkien discourse
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Just saw some evening-ruining takes and I gotta say:
It seems like a lot of the most recent and confidant dismissals of Tolkien’s work or key elements of it come from people who only know lotr via cultural osmosis at worst and the movies at best. There’s lots and lots of people making wild statements about Tolkien’s simplistic characters, binary morality, racist or sexist worldbuilding etc. without having read a single sentence written by Tolkien himself.
Honestly, would it kill you to read the source text? Would it kill you to read a person’s actual work before describing him like the most evilest of colonialist creators to ever exist?
This is getting absurd. If the “vibe” of a canonical work or even author doesn’t jell with them, some people seem to immediately resort to the language of irredeemable evil, inherently monstrous, problematic, must be erased from the canon etc.
Like, you must know you are being deceitful, and lazy, and incurious, and self-centred to always need your personal intuition about the general impression (not even actual content) of a piece of art to reflect some deep moral failing on its behalf and some moral victory on yours. This is ludicrous. Have we forgotten that stories are more than their adaptations? More than their receptions? More than their paratext?
The refusal of people to engage with anything in good faith is driving me up the wall. What are we doing to our culture? What are we allowing to be done to our minds? What have we done?
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sauronnaise · 8 months
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Elrohir: Guess what
Elrond: What?
Elrohir: I have from an insider source that Aragorn forgot who Legolas was the son of and introduced him as 'Legolas of the Woodland Realm' to the Rohirrim.
Elrond: Ah, really. Thranduil will love to hear.
Aragorn: Please don't.
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choupimaki · 6 months
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I enjoy reading. I really do. So I want to read more classics, for my culture.
However, I can't bring myself to read most of French classics. First off, they tend to be hard to digest. But most importantly, they're SO BORING ??
I don't mind hard to digest books ; I've read the Silmarillion and it was not an easy read. But it had an interesting story in spite of the whole pages describing family trees. And some parts of it are just so poetic to me. I haven't read a French classic novel with such poetry, except maybe Stendhal's description of cristallisation as a metaphor for new love.
Once again, I get that classics tend to be hard to read. But at least classics written in English have stories that I find interesting. Take 1984, I had so much trouble reading it (I learnt the word 'seldom' by reading it every 5 pages in the book lmao) but the setup, the atmosphere, the plot made me want to keep reading it !
One of the few French classic I've read is Therese Raquin. (Content warning : this paragraph is a spoiler to the novel Therese Raquin.) (Also trigger warning: murder and cheating). The novel is about a woman who is bored with her husband, so she starts an affair with some other dude, they kill the husband together, they get together officially, and in the end she's bored again. Help ?? How could I want to read this instead of Fahrenheit 451 ??
The only classical French authors that make me want to read them so far are Camus and De Maupassant. Not even Stendhal. Please give me more interesting authors if you have some !
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mag-lore · 4 months
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Amazon: we're making our show diverse to represent the modern world through rings of power !!
Also Amazon: gives almost all the male elves short stereotypically masculine haircuts while the female elves all have long hair. Ignoring the fact that all elves have long hair and all look very similar and androgynous. Gives the female dwarves no facial/body hair and stereotypically feminine clothing, ignoring the canon fact that dwarf women are indistinguishable from dwarf men and therefore look very manly. Removes all the queer coding from Sauron's character, making him a cisgender man who looks very stereotypically masculine and has a beard. Also gives him a forced heterosexual love interest. Makes him and Ar-Pharazon have virtually no interaction and therefore a completely different relationship than they have in the canon. Casts Celebrimbor much older than he is written and removes almost all of his scenes and interactions with Sauron, replacing him in almost all of the canon scenes they have together with Galadriel.
Seems like your "diversity" excludes anything queer coded that exists in the canon as well as relationships that could be and often are read as queer. Painting middle earth as aggressively cisheteronormative even if that means fundamentally changing existing characters and races.
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gffa · 2 years
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Rings of Power is to me what the Star Wars sequels were to me:  The conflict between not wanting to be an asshole to fans who enjoy them, but having major problems with the worldbuilding and characterization of established characters, that the gloss and shine of them is lovely but the structure of the story falls apart with the slightest touch, that they actively disrespect the established lore of the foundational material, that there are glimmering moments of something really worth exploring, but it gets buried under an avalanche of me wanting to vigorously shake the creators until a damned overarching theme falls out, the cast is lovely and deserves a better show than the one they’re in.  Also god forbid we have a Black actor in our fantasy series, how very dare, time to bring out the racist harassment because they totally deserve it for idk existing and being in the show.
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imakemywings · 5 months
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Well, now we need to know your ranking of Finwean asses. For science. Personally I think Feanor earns number one spot again both literally and figuratively.
Feanor. Yes, once again he takes the lead. He is described as sexiest Elf in canon so this feels fair. It is not something he gave any thought to until Nerdanel pointed it out. However, while he is pleased she thinks he's hot, he's less pleased when she tries to grab him in public. Yes, even when she's trying to be subtle.
Turgon
Lalwen
Aredhel
Fingon
Argon
Anaire. It's so perky.
Finrod
Galadriel
Fingolfin
Indis
Earwen
Elenwe
Miriel
Finarfin
Aegnor
Angrod
Findis
Amrod
Celeborn
Amras
Finwe
Celegorm
Maglor
Curufin
Caranthir
Nerdanel. She's not troubled about this but she is always trying to get the tailor to take Feanor's robes and pants in a size. It took him like thirty years to figure this out.
Maedhros. You will break your fucking hand if you slap his ass. Also you will take a metal prosthetic to the face.
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secretmellowblog · 2 years
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I had a near death experience so I’m just going to say my most controversial lord of the rings hot take: The scouring of the shire is bad, actually.
The scouring of the shire is badly written. I hate it. I mentally call it the plot line where “the shire does Brexit,” because honestly that’s what it is. :P
I always see people talk about the scouring as if it’s a thoughtful nuanced take on fascism— the way fascism can happen “at home” as easily as it happens abroad and your own neighbors can become dictators—- and that’s a compelling idea with lots of potential! but if that’s what the scouring of the shire was aiming to do, i feel like it fails.
Because the real villain in the scouring of the shire isn’t the hobbit’s neighbors— it’s foreigners and immigrants. The neighbors don’t get swept up in xenophobia/paranoia; people from other races come in and manipulate them into doing bad things. The “solution” to the hobbit’s problems in the end is literally to ban anyone who isn’t a hobbit from entering the shire— to ban anyone who isn’t their race from immigrating— and that is portrayed uncritically as a Good thing!! And the right thing to do!!
The immigration ban is the dumbest plot point in the book, and I think it’s obnoxious not just because of the Unfortunate Implications but also because it contradicts everything that happened before it. Earlier Gandalf critiques the hobbits by saying “the wide world is about you; you can fence yourselves in, but you cannot forever fence it out.” So you think the story is going to be about the hobbits realizing they’re part of the world and have to understand and embrace other cultures, and most of the book is about that. But in the end the solution to the hobbit’s problems really is just….to Fence the World out. To ban the other races from immigrating. Maybe they can import you flowers to plant in your garden but they’re not allowed to enter; ever, not even to visit. Even Gandalf can’t come in. And were supposed to see this as Right!!! : P
People point to the hobbit’s xenophobia as a way to be like “Tolkien treats the Shire more critically than the adaptations do” but they leave out the part where the hobbit’s xenophobia is ultimately, (if maybe accidentally) portrayed as justified. Tolkien sees the hobbit’s xenophobia as quaint and maybe a flaw occasionally but he rarely sees it as dangerous— it’s the evil powerful Foreigners who are the real danger. It’s foreigners who can corrupt the hobbits.
There’s this odd thing Tolkien does where he often tries to criticize fascism but fails because he hasn’t fully considered why/how fascism exists and hasn’t unpacked his own colonialist views.
“So what are you saying? That the real villain of the scouring of the shire shouldn’t have been Saruman, it should’ve been Ted Sandyman?”
….Yes! Yes actually! I think that would be far more powerful and interesting. If the hobbits returned home to a police state actually run by their own neighbors whose xenophobia/paranoia about the outside world became deadly, it would be a far more moving, powerful, and relevant statement on fascism than “foreigners bad.” Then it actually would’ve been what people always say the Scouring the Shire is.
Again, there was so much potential in the general idea of the plot line but to me it’s one of the many areas where you can see Tolkien’s weaknesses and blind spots as a writer.
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labrysknot · 4 months
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I understand it's difficult to find and/or post visual porn on tumblr, and most of it being lowest-common-denominator uncredited & unethical cishet schlock with tiny wasp-waisted white women is basically inevitable, but ugh. Why can't I have a wall of gifs of desperate, stupid-looking whores that actually look like the desperate, stupid-looking whores in my life? Where are the fat, hairy, dykey gaped asses? Where are the un-made-up faces smeared in spit and cum? Where are the black and brown fucktoys with their tits being beaten? Where now the horse and the rider? Where is the horn that was blowing? Where is the helm and the hauberk, and the bright hair flowing?
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silvergifting · 2 years
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loving the energy of the am*zon show fans telling me that actually, the tolkien estate is the one disrespecting tolkien & that they are indeed villain of the story in this whole debacle… we’re reaching previously undiscovered levels of delusion among people desperately trying to defend this shitshow!!!
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brynnmclean · 5 months
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I can't believe I still have to see posts about how much better ROP would be if Celebrían was the lead vs. Galadriel. As someone who has Tolkien Brainrot, I understand the appeal, I really, really do. As someone who has had to interact with so many people who either do not care about Tolkien Lore but are interested in fantasy television shows or are Jackson film fans first/foremost/only, y'all. Galadriel is a known character and a decent intro to lesser known characters.
Hate to break it to y'all but Celebrían is OBSCURE. I'm pretty confident in saying that if you get outside of Tolkien Fandom online circles, you could tell people that Elrond was married to Galadriel's daughter and the response you would get would be, "oh, I didn't realize that" because it's touched so lightly in the films. Celebrían isn't even MENTIONED by name. Now that I think about it, I'm not even sure if anyone mentions that Galadriel and Arwen are related at all!
My point is the show is meant to appeal to more people than us over here with Tolkien Brainrot!!!!!! I love Celebrían, but Galadriel was an easier sell to the potential of a wider audience as a lead. For a show that needs to go through so much lore very quickly, having Galadriel as the lead because she's 1) female [the overwhelming amount of male characters vs. female characters in the Legendarium is another post], 2) relatively familiar, and 3) has a set characterization to lead toward for an arc vs. her barely-even-mentioned-in-LotR daughter is a no-brainer.
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greypetrel · 5 months
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I see you've been asked several already, so for the Tolkein asks: whichever question you want to answer most, but haven't been asked c:
Hi Mo! :D
Thank you! The temptation to answer all the questions left was there... But I don't want to pester you with basically an essay, so I'll select a few x°D
Edit after writing it: *it's still an essay* Oops.
2. If you were the Middle Earth race that your personality most matches, which would it be?
I'm a Hobbit. Definitely a Hobbit. No love for being on centre stage, will eat six meals per day (listen, snacks are important ok), is very comfortable at home, but resourceful when needed. I miss the love for gardening, my thumb is very black and I have little interest for plants that I can't eat because what's the point. But Bilbo in the book dreaming while camping in the cold of a cozy afternoon spent reading with the kettle on the fire speaks to my soul.
10. Favorite performance by any actor in the Tolkien film projects? Bonus: What's your favorite scene with them?
Bernard Hill as Theoden always gets me. He's just the right level of intensity, melancholy and grieving because he's old and feels like he hasn't accomplished anything. The tenderness and the respect he has for Eowyn as his beloved niece AND a wise woman he can be happy leaving his kingdom to (Eomer goes with him to a potentially suicidal mission. He's saying, to me, that his heir is HER, not him). And his speeches are all-!!! The Pelennor Field's one always have me shivering. The words are nice, sure, but his acting was just great. All of the Rohan part is just peak casting and great. Miranda Otto did a stunning job, her singing the mourning song haunts me. And THAT SCENE where Karl Urban just screams himself raw when he finds apparently dead Eowyn. I still don't know why exactly it was cut from the cinematic version, it was a pity.
Andy Serkis. I am appalled that he doesn't appear in more movies because honestly find me any other person who would have delivered a Gollum in the same way. (and please Hollywood cast him in more diverse roles, make me see his face, he's GOOD, give him a chance)
Since no one named him: Sean Astin as Sam. REALLY. The way he can go from grumpy and pouty to bright and happy seeing Frodo and absolutely EPIC. He's a whole journey by himself. Favourite scene: I can tell you the PO-TAY-TOES scene by heart, mimicking Gollum as well. But his speech at the end of Two Towers.
And also. Not a favourite because it's down for lines that are not so good, but... I know it's highly unpopular, but I really liked Morfydd Clark as Galadriel. She's not Cate Blanchett, and she's not supposed to be. That's still Edgy!Galadriel that she plays, she's younger and still hot-headed and please read the book and find out that Galadriel is not an ethereal lady, she's a Noldorin and she can and she WILL kick your ass. Clark does it, she has the right look for it. (her lines could have been better? Yes. I still think she did good with what she had.) (I'm all for edgy and angry, more human-like elves, and thought I know it's flawed, but I liked Rings of Power.)
12. Tolkien's work contains a lot of interesting themes: devastation of war, things lost that cannot be restored, rebirth/renewal, holding true to one's companions even when it is darkest, and others. Which is the most important to you?
I'll try to be brief here, I could fill a dissertation over this.
But mainly:
“It's like in the great stories, Mr. Frodo. The ones that really mattered. Full of darkness and danger they were. And sometimes you didn't want to know the end. Because how could the end be happy? How could the world go back to the way it was when so much bad had happened? But in the end, it’s only a passing thing, this shadow. Even darkness must pass. A new day will come. And when the sun shines it will shine out the clearer. Those were the stories that stayed with you. That meant something, even if you were too small to understand why. But I think, Mr. Frodo, I do understand. I know now. Folk in those stories had lots of chances of turning back, only they didn’t. They kept going, because they were holding on to something. That there is some good in this world, and it's worth fighting for."
This.
The fact that no matter how dark it is outside, there's the promise of light and joy at the end of the tunnel. Hope in spite of everything.
And the fact that it doesn't matter where you come from, it doesn't matter who your ancestors were, how tall are you, how much your people has been involved in a situation before. You are valuable, your help is not in vain, there's some good you can do. See: Pippin's arc. Going from fool of a Took, basically a baby thrown in a world so much greater than him... And standing up to the situation, in the end, just because he wants to help, even if he's scared. His taking the Palantir and talking to Sauron, in the end, is one of the biggest assists given to Frodo... and he's the member of the Fellowship that had the least reasons to be there, the least experience and knowledge to help the mission. In the end, he's just as useful as everyone else.
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nicolabarth · 2 years
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The new Tolkien thing
Fellow tumblr beings, please answer a question for me. Why has tumblr decided to hate the Rings of Power? I mean, I get the thing that it’s made by Amazon, which sucks, but that’s easily fixable with piracy. And apart from that, I don’t get it?
There’s been talk about gratuitous sex scenes, but ya’ll have been writing sex with various characters from Middle Earth for ages. So I feel like the mere existence of sex in Middle Earth should shock no one. And the cast is nicely diverse. We have several interesting female characters, we have the makers of the show going: “Fuck every elf having to have blond hair.” and giving us elves of color (and hobbits of color and dwarfs of color). There’s an amazing plus size black woman as the queen of all the dwarfs.
And the first two episodes that I’ve seen are actually good. They have multi layered characters and good dialogue and good storytelling. It feels like something someone actually put creative effort in.
I really really get that no one wants to be caught dead with an Amazon Prime subscription (same), but the creative people who are involved in the making of the show really don’t deserve you being so mean about the thing they made.
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runawaymun · 1 year
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Celebrían being a soft fem who can also kick ass and hold her own is how it is in my brain. It’s my strong preference but I just had to share it here since you like the soft fem too. Obsessed with soft fem characters who can also kick ass & take names while still being soft and fem.
Exactly exactly exactly
Let female characters be soft and fem and have traditionally “feminine” hobbies!! I don’t have anything against butch/masc female characters or brash female characters or female characters who are DTF (down to fight), but I take issue with Strong Female Characters (y’know…)
The Strong Female Character(tm) is a trope rooted in the misogynistic view that things associated with femininity are therefore weak or boring. Things we associate with masculinity are admirable and cool and strong!! See the Sansa/Arya dichotomy in ASOIAF — I don’t mean the way GRRM writes them, but the fandom’s reaction to these characters as a whole speaks for itself. On a villain note, consider how nearly universally hated (not meow-meowified) female villains are coded, such as Cersei Lannister, Phyllis Schlafly (I know she’s a real person but I’m speaking to Mrs America), Alicent Hightower (especially when contrasted with Rhaenyra), Regina George, Nurse Ratched, and even Dolores Umbridge and Annie Wilkes. Think about what forms of power and control they turn to (usually sexual power, “feminine mystique”, deception, weaponization of the patriarchy and of beauty standards — and conversely coldness, aloofness, — traits which are fine for a man but not considered feminine). In fact, if you just look up a list of the most iconic female villains, nearly every single one is coded with traits and usage of power that we (in western cultures) attribute traditionally to femininity.
Idk I’m very Unhinged about this, but I am tired of seeing soft pink femininity being either demonized or patronized. Women can be soft and they can kick ass, and by kick ass I don’t mean pick up a sword, I mean they can be soft and kind and kick ass using traditionally feminine methods of wielding power and influence. That’s how Celebrían is in my brain. She’s great at quietly commanding a room, dressing to impress (or intimidate), using her Mom Voice(tm) if need be, but also mostly just gently pushing people to be the best versions of themselves through positive manipulation. There is absolutely nothing wrong with being a supportive person — and by that I mean there is nothing wrong with being the person on the sidelines quietly listening and cheering people on and encouraging them and letting them talk their issues out, and making them clothes to wear that they feel good in and stuffing them full of good food and making sure they’ve had their hug. That is badass. These are things we associate with motherhood and it is badass. It is badass. It is badass and it is worth it and it is a valuable use of one’s life. Not everybody needs to pick up a sword or Do Big Things, if you are a person who likes to support others, to be a helper, a nurturer — that is badass. In a world that says we must be Loud and Incite Change and Go Go Go, to Live Our Truth and Chase Our Big Dream— to live a quiet life full of kindness focused on supporting others is a radical act.
I guess what I am trying to say is that we need to Do Better towards quiet people — you know, the people that don’t create much but they reblog and share and encourage and listen! Or the people who may not Write Big Fics or Compose Music or Go Rock Climbing or whatever (all awesome) — those people are the absolute bedrock of society. The people who crochet and make little dioramas and who bake and just sing because they like to sometimes. The people who are thoughtful and nurturing and feel like they’re just sort of treading water, who don’t have Big Plans and feel smaller for it— you’re not!! You’re not!! You are valuable!!! You are so valuable!! I am clenching you in both my fists do you understand!??
What I am saying is that the world has great need of hugs, and reblogs, and “how are you’s”, and pressed flowers, and baked goods, and gardens, and lumpy crocheted dishcloths, and quiet conversations in the car in the driveway at midnight, and “can I get your groceries for you or just hang out while you run errands”, and “here’s a card Just Because”, and “have you eaten today?”
That’s why soft Celebrían is so important to me. That’s what I am trying to say, that’s why I write her that way. What I am saying is that people like my Celebrían are important. Just as important as the Elronds and Galadriels and Gandalfs and Aragorns and Fingons and Celebrimbors and Eowyns and Thorins, and Earendils.
And if characters like Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Faramir, and Nienna are any indication, Tolkien felt the same way.
I keep returning to what Tolkien wrote at the end of The Hobbit, which remains key to my understanding of his Legendarium and just…central to my life philosophy these days:
“There is more in you of good than you know, child of the kindly West. Some courage and some wisdom, blended in measure. If more of us valued food and cheer and song above hoarded gold, it would be a merrier world.”
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mariautistic · 11 months
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why is every advice on this site about writing like "you dont actually have to think about what youre writing and if anyone says you shoudl theyre worrying too much"
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marlocandeea · 5 months
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sent some stories to magazines, wish me good luck
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