#THAT'S why I'm more worried about Horobi

[firebirdsdaughter]

I'm honestly not too shocked that Aruto is going to work together Gai now. He always rubbed me the wrong way when it came to his views about Humagears, esp his reaction to Raiden & Subaru. That was a huge red flag for me. Also, if he's really so concerned about the well-being of Humagears, then he should offer counseling for the destroyed & revived Humagears to deal with the trauma. But I guess that would be too much to ask. As long as they serve humans who cares about Humagears' feelings.

I def agree w/ you, he’s rubbed me the wrong way in many of the same ways.

It’s hard to believe he sees HumaGear as people when he’s all pleased w/ Raiden talking about how he’ll be decommissioned soon and even calling the two of them ‘just like real brothers.’

You know, like he keeps saying Horobi is ‘trying to be like Jin’s father.’

And don’t even get me started on ‘a caring brother can’t be a spy,’ ‘if only you had been different,’ ‘why did you hurt Izu?’ ‘I’ve never treated them differently’…

AUGH.

To me, Aruto’s ‘dream’ can be summed up in a line from a song that was cut from Frozen (ya’ll thought I’d forgotten about this, didn’t you, but no) that goes ‘It’ll be just like it was, except for we’ll be best friends.’

This got long, so I’m cutting it here. Or. I’m trying to. 

He doesn’t see HumaGear as equal to people, he just wants them to stay right where they are, and ‘be happy’ there. ‘Good’ HumaGear are the ones whose development is convenient for humans. Raiden was ‘good’ when he saw no problem dying bc his ‘purpose was served,’ Naki was ‘good’ when they just wanted to support other HumaGear’s dreams as long as they were steered towards HumaGear w/ dreams of benefiting humanity, Jin is ‘good’ now bc he’s not trying to get HumaGear away from serving humans anymore and is also willing to kill his own father or due himself to do something that will benefit humans. The morality of the show has always been very much centred around humans, how HumaGear benefit humans, and HumaGear are expected to be these perfect little angels who exist to help humans and never think of themselves. Horobi is ‘bad’ bc he has resentment towards humans and has been so deeply under the Ark’s control for so long that he can’t think outside of her (esp not after being possessed) so obviously he doesn’t ‘want’ to be ‘change.’

I said it in the tags of my other post, but there’s something wrong w/ the picture when you’re holding a literally mind controlled AI who hasn’t had any concept of free will or self thought in his entire life aside from small snatches that were quickly stomped out, more accountable than a human w/ full autonomy and knowledge and power who deliberately did things that caused death and harm (and shot someone in the head). It’s not a good message. I’m supposed to feel bad for Gai bc he’s ‘sad,’ but Horobi deserves to die? I’m sorry, what?

The message has very much been ‘humans are special special and HumaGear are expendable/need to be carefully moulded into a ‘singularity’ that’s at the least convenient for humans.’ ‘Good’ HumaGear aspire only to properly serve their humans, to be like them, they are pure and angelic creatures who never feel anything ‘negative,’ and if they do, they need to be purged.

I could rant myself in circles about this for ages. I think for me, the really glaring example is Aruto’s treatment of Jin, a relationship that could have been an interesting learning experience for both of them (though, honestly, I was also hoping to see Fuwa also help Aruto realise the issues w/ his attitude, bc as he started coming down from his prejudice and aggression, Fuwa actually treated HumaGear more like equals than Aruto did, one of the many things I loved about him and Horobi as a pair), but instead ends up being a glaring example of Aruto’s… Whatever.

So Horobi has his first moment of clarity and genuinely fears for Jin, so the Ark steps in and ‘tells’ him to protect his son, so he does and it hurt, and Jin is hysterical. Izu proceeds to walk right up to the still-transformed, clearly emotionally volatile and very uninjured Jin, and announce w/ a smile that Horobi has been defeated. Jin, hysterical and lost, reacts in the only way he knows how, violently, which she should have bloody seen coming, wth. But then, Aruto is demanding to know ‘why did you hurt Izu’ like she did nothing wrong and Jin just attacked her randomly (which was a thing that could have happened and would have made his emotions make mire sense, Jin lashing out at Izu as ‘revenge’ for Horobi), and then Jin gets treated like the total bad guy. Then, on top of that, Aruto finds out during the fight that Jin doesn’t actually know what’s going on, he’s just been raised into this. Instead of immediately trying to change tactics and reason w/ him, Aruto just spews his ‘I want HumaGear and humans to smile together’ line (what does that even mean?), and when Jin rejects that, Aruto just… Gives up and says ‘if only you had been different.’ doesn’t try to prompt Jin to think about what Jin wants, what Jin is feeling, doesn’t bother to try to find out why Jin is so hysterical. It gets even worse when he quickly gains the firepower advantage and learns that Izu will be totally fine, but he still doesn’t bother trying anything else. He just kills Jin, bc… What? Jin didn’t immediately bow to his ‘love’ for HumaGear? Of course once sentence wasn’t gonna do it, he just watched humans kill his father! Aruto didn’t need to kill Jin at all, it would have been easy to disable him—alternatively, if they really wanted Jin to go down there, there were ways to do it that didn’t make it come off as Aruto quickly erasing a HumaGear for having any negative feelings or resentment towards humans, esp when you follow it w/ a scene of him and Izu being all pleased about other HumaGear ‘behaving’ themselves, and then never mention Jin again.

Fast forward, and when Jin comes back talking about wanting to free HumaGear from humans… Aruto actually asks him what he wants, finally? Then Aruto gets the boot from Hiden and decides to go to Jin for help. This should be a turning point where Jin get to properly confront Aruto about what happened and Aruto reflects on what he did, but no. Jin gets to shout a little, but then Aruto claims he never treated humans and HumaGear differently and says ‘I watched my HumaGear dad die’ and Jin just… Says nothing? doesn’t shoot back w/, ‘so did I, humans killed him.’ Then they get interrupted and Jin runs off… Only to… Rescue Izu later? But then after he does he… Grabs her hand and runs away and tries to convince her to be free? After… Literally buying his father time to reconnect to the Ark? And this is Izu? Who he stabbed? Okay… Anyway, then we have more stuff w/ poor connotations of Jin saying he ‘learned something’ from Aruto killing him and Izu ‘choosing’ to keep being Aruto’s secretary like a ‘good’ little HumaGear (her liking him and wanting to stay on his side would be one thing, but this… Esp w/ him claiming that he thought she should choose, going by his later insistence that Jin can’t take G-Pen bc he’s a human’s ‘partner’), and only then does he take a bullet for her. This apparently means something to Jin, although I feel like the implications of ‘she’s worth protecting bc she decided to keep serving humans and I killed you bc you didn’t want to do that’ should not have been lost on him (also wtf did Jin start caring about Izu?). The we have the next ep w/ aforementioned G-Pen incident which for some reason Aruto defending another HumaGear choosing to serve humans makes Jin decide to ‘believe in his dream’ or whatever. But then later the Raiden scene makes it seem like Jin was playing along bc that conversation w/ Horobi about HumaGear needing guidance to break free gave him an idea or something, I dunno, but naturally Aruto reacts like this is some huge betrayal, despite the fact that they hardly have any relationship—okay, so this friendship is something Aruto made up in his head, given his character, and apparent assumptions that all HumaGear actually adore humans, that makes sense. That could work. But then episode thirty fucking six happens. Jin apparently cares more for Yaiba, a human he’s barely interacted w/ who had yet to show any sign of no longer considering HumaGear to be tools, who had previously represented all the things Jin hated about them, then his own father. Acts all protective of her, throws himself in as a shield for her, moons about while she’s in the hospital. Then we learn he decided he trusted her (?????) enough to conspire w/ her to… Use his own father as a sacrifice to kill the Ark. Aruto seems to be more worried about Horobi, but merely yells a bit about how Horobi should ‘remember who he is by now.’ Come ep 37, Jin fucking takes a hit for miss perfect HumaGear Izu (note: aside from her grabbing the idiot ball in ep 15, my annoyance w/ Izu isn’t really something she as a character has done, it’s the way they’ve written her as the ‘pinnacle of ‘good’ HumaGear for her devotion to her human’), and tells Aruto to leave. Now that Jin is behaving in a way that benefits/is convenient for humans, though, Aruto is a like ‘oh, we totally were best buds, I was right!’ and is so worried and distressed about him, forgetting Horobi (who is so ‘bad’ for not being able to break through more than a decade of mind control! forget him, Jin must be saved!). Then we have that incredibly forced scene in 38 where Aruto tries to ‘get through to Jin’ and Jin ‘breaks through the Ark’s control bc of Aruto’ (see my draft horse pack on a shetland pony analogy) and ‘tells Aruto to kill him!’ which continues in to this ep. In which we also have… Gai. Who Aruto quickly puts effort into ‘reasoning w/’ and ‘showing the light’ bc ‘oh no he had a bad childhood’… Okay, but… You killed Jin for that, and he literally didn’t understand what he was doing. Gai had full autonomy and knowledge of his actions. People were hurt bc of both of their actions, but it’s Gai who gets a big speech and Jin who gets blown up. I said it back when it happened. If Jin had been human? I bet they would have made Aruto approach that much differently.

The fact that Aruto is willing to do all that for Gai but killed Jin, and only now considers Jin worth any effort bc Jin is behaving in a way that benefits/is convenient for humans even at the expense of HumaGear (being willing to sacrifice Horobi, even himself, to stop the Ark, while that goal is technically ultimately noble, the context gives a bad connotation), and not trying to talk HumaGear out of being subservient to humans and telling them to think for themselves, or wanting to revive a HumaGear that Aruto was content to leave deactivated bc he didn’t have a ‘use’… But Horobi only gets a few shouts and then ditched bc he ‘won’t listen’… Leaves a really bad impression.

#Anonymous #Asks #Firebird Salt #Spoilers #wow #I'm #I'm so sorry #apparently I just… #really needed to go off #sorry about that

[firebirdsdaughter]

Have you read what Omori wants for 01's conclusion? Apparently it will be completely different from any other Rider series..It will be very 01 and represent what Reiwa is in the current climate. For one, I'm really scared because I don't trust Omori, never have. But this just screams bs/bad ending. They probably have Aruto die and/or come back as a Humagear and then have Gai become 01 as the new hero because reasons. (If you want to be hip, write a show that makes sense from start to finish.)

I have seen that, and that’s exactly what it screams to me. Everything here comes across as ‘drama drama shock value!’ ‘We’re going to be radical and shocking!’

Like… Wtf does ‘the current climate’ mean? Hell? Bittersweet endings are one thing, but only when they make sense. This all just feels like a sharp swerve into a brick wall.

Like, I have to admit that Horobi’s behaviour is a fairly realistic depiction of someone who’d been through something like what he’d been through. I mean, of course, no human could actually understand what he’s been through, bc it’s impossible for humans to imagine being completely w/out a sense of self, we always have the capacity for it. HumaGear aren’t even allowed that except by human benefit. This isn’t the same as a human coming out of a cult, this is a person whose very nature was altered and defined by an active and malicious external being/intelligence. Horobi was made this way by the Ark, who was made that way by Gai.

Literally. The only reason Horobi ended up w/ all that negative data on the worst of humanity is bc Gai put it in the Ark. While I take issue w/ some parts of Izu’s speech and the tone, they did point out the biased data… It’s just… Instead of trying to address that… They chose to come out weapons out and enforce that interpretation, and then do it again when Fuwa rejects Horobi’s question (Horobi, who was tortured for asking a question before, who only tries to ask Fuwa, as if Fuwa is the only one who might convince him of it). I think that’s an important point in that fight. After what Izu says, Horobi does try to reach out and gather more information from the one human he’s spent the most time w/, the one he knows, the one who first actually treated him like a person rather than a tool of any kind… And gets literally shot down. Told ‘I don’t care, I’m going to kill you.’ It’s kind of like the interpretation I had of his reaction to Jin’s betrayal—‘if you’ve given up on me, it doesn’t matter.’ Why should he give humans a chance if the one human he knows is honest, and who before had been quite reasonable w/ him despite his anger, reacts like that. Fuwa didn’t immediately destroy Horobi when he restarted in AIMS custody. Instead he interrogated him like any other prisoner, and eventually became comfortable in his presence. They were discussing motivation and will. It makes sense that Horobi would choose to question Fuwa about this, who he knows is aware of human cruelty and deceit, who listened to him, albeit angrily, when he brought up human malice. Fuwa, for all he’s angry and reckless, isn’t an actively malicious person, and he proved that during their time together. It comes across as Horobi looking to the most human human he knows that he remembers as being reasonable in the end despite everything, trying to consider and gather more data, get a second opinion, like he’s looking to the one human whose word he might believe, the first one who defied that data… Only to get his beliefs enforced. He tries reaching out and gets a door slammed in his face. I think that honestly made him even more volatile at that point.

But I’m digressing, bc I’m just really mad about this episode. Pretty much everyone grabbed the Idiot Ball, except for Horobi, bc he was too busy holding the massive ‘mentally and emotionally fucked up and very unstable from being mind raped for twelve years’ ball.

But… I really have no earthly clue what that statement could mean? I feel like a main Rider dying has happened before? We’ve at least had half a main Rider die. But it is very worrying that they’re just going to pull some more abrupt weirdness for the sake of ‘shock value.’

#Anonymous #Asks #Firebird Opinions #Spoilers #I am just so AUGH #about Horobi trying to reach out and getting literally shot down #like those close ups on his face and the way he stands up after #and then marches back towards Fuwa #and focuses on Fuwa afterwards (okay that's me reading too much into it) #but it feels very 'if that's what you think/how could you/I trusted you/then let me be evil' to me #like he thought Fuwa might understand now and give him something back #consider and respond like he did before #but instead Fuwa just plays right into the stereotype of humans that Horobi has been forcibly imprinted w/ #that they hate and destroy anything that questions them #he and the others had moved at that point #for me Fuwa's behaviour in the second fight makes more sense bc they were actuallyattacking #and there was the whole incident at the warehouse #but here things still haven't gone there yet #there's still time #but it's the humans who show up like the aggressors #which is esp glaring bc of the way Horobi was interacting w/ Izu #like I take issue w/ parts of her speech and the tone #but he was generally calm w/ her at that point #and was even turning to face her like he was open to interacting when Fuwa and Yua showed up #like I've said I don't know if Izu could have fully talked him down as blindly devoted to humans as she is #but she could have stalled long enough for Jin to get there #and he'd have more sway w/ Horobi #this was literally a tidal wave of bad communication choices #like if Izu had just TOLD Aruto they could have done this so much better #if she and Shesta had coordinated

[firebirdsdaughter]

I don't think there's anything to worry about as far as Jin & romance, like they haven't shown any hint of that happening with anyone least of all her. If anything they're pushing her & Fuwa & even that's a stretch. She's just the only person they can think of that might have the skills to help get Naki out of Fuwa, truthfully, that's the only thing on Jins mind right now. I hope this doesn't sound mean or accusing, I'm trying to reassure you that you don't need to stress about this

Yua and Fuwa was the ‘thing I don’t ship but don’t mind,’ yeah…

I’m hoping they don’t. KR in general isn’t big on romance (we’re a ‘boys show’ after all 🙄), so I’m not… Terribly worried? I know I sound like I’m in a tiz, but it was more… Well it came from a complicated place, is all I’ll say. I also have a very visceral reaction to it bc if my emotional state is already worn thin… Just the thought makes me not feel well, and I have a physical reaction to the discomfort. Normally, I can just speed scroll past and go on my merry way, but sometimes the reaction is more extreme. Also, I feel really guilty for feeling that way, which only make the whole thing worse, and it all melds together, and I word vomit out all the negativity.

I think I’m a bit tense w/ it w/ Yua being the first major female Rider (well, Rider who is female), so I keep kinda half expecting them to fall back on the ‘love interest’ or ‘romance plot for the girl’ stuff. Also, I have no illusions about Rider breaking out a same-sex relationship, or a nonbinary relationship out of the blue, so she and Izu are the highest… Well, not ‘risk,’ but probability. And… Izu’s a robot (thankfully, Jin is, too). Also, bc I see her as a mother/parental figure at most… There’s an extra level of squick for me, there.

(And that’s what this is, Squick. To me, personally. I am not trigger by anything, I’m not saying people who ship anything are bad, it’s just very squicky for me.)

I don’t think I really need to worry about it in canon, no. Part of this, admittedly, is also me feeling irrationally protective of Horobi and Jin’s relationship (hence my post hoping they don’t just give all Jin’s emotional scenes to her). And also, I’m a little gunshy bc, one kind of ‘complaint’ I did have about Ryusoulger (though I note I am aware they owed me nothing and it was a headcanon), was that I hc’d Banba as asexual/aromantic, and thought I’d be okay bc Sentai did romance even less than KR… Only for the show to repeatedly shove him into romantic relationships and plots. So… I’m a little tense. (again, I know the show owed me nothing, I’m just saying that’s why I had such an overemotional reaction)

I don’t think it will happen in canon (I hope not), it’s just a personal, extreme squick reaction I have that’s worse under certain circumstances, to just thinking about it. It’s just… Jin/anyone is a very strong notp for me, of which I do not have many, and it’s esp strong w/ the human characters, as they are all actual adults, while I still consider him to be mentally a teenager at most (and still a very naive teenager). so… The short version is, I was having an Uncomfortable time bc I happened to think about that, and I was already pretty worn out, so it kinda snapped a little. If that makes sense.

#Firebird Salt #Firebird Negativity #also I'm just going to put this on here for safety: #Anti Jin x Yua #anti Jin romance #NOTP #too just in case #I don't really use anti tags but I want people to be able to block this post #I'm not worried about it in canon #not much anyway #THIS IS NOT DIRECTED AT ANYONE #no one has a responsibility to please me nor do I them #just like it's fine that I didn't like the Lupinrangers as much as other people #I want to say I don't expect people to feel the same way as me #people have different views that's fine #I'm just expressing/vomiting up my emotional response to something #if… any of this made sense