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#I literally don't give a sh*t about El !!!!
acourtofthought · 6 months
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I feel like previous anon doesn't understand the Context as well.
Rhys didn't immediatly forbid Azriel from seeing Elain. He questioned him first, gave him the chance to explain to see what his intentions are. Azriel told him and it basically disgusted Rhys. He then ask him what he'll do about it to which Az didn't gave an answer to but we know what his answer is "He didn't got that far with his planning, certainly not beyond the fantasies he pleasured himself to". Before her forbid it, Rhys told us the danger that could happen.
Rhys doesn't do that for Lucien's sake. He most likely doesn't give a sh*t about him. Lucien is a political bomb and has strong connections to nearly every court. If Lucien finds out and he'll decide to not work for the NC anymore, the NC loses ties with the human lands, Spring court and maybe even the dawn court. If Helion and Lucien find out they're related, NC might lose their ties with the DC as well for keeping it a secret and the way they treated Lucien.
Doesn't matter wether or not Elain is interested, she hasn't done anything regarding the mating bond. Why would Rhys want to lose strong allies, just for reckless kids to have fun for like... what? 2 months?
Of course El/riel would still have to face these problems, if Azriel was actually in love with Elain, but Rhys reaction would be different.
ALLLLLL the things you said.
First off, Rhys asked Az if he was out of his mind and Az's response?
"I don't know what you're talking about", after donning his frozen mask.
Az starts this all off with pretending to be ignorant.
Then Rhys spells it out for Az, that he was about to kiss Elain out in the open for anyone to see including her mate and what does Az do?
Once again Az ignores answering directly and instead says "what if the Cauldron was wrong?"
To which Rhys replies, "what of Mor?"
Because Rhys KNOWS Az has been in love WITH HIS COUSIN for centuries. But now suddenly he's ready to kiss his sister-in-law? I think that warrants explanation, don't you? Both of these females are Rhys's family so it's not really out of line for him to question what Az's intentions are with either one.
Yet once again, Az chooses not to give him any kind of reassurance, "I'm letting go of Mor." "I feel something for Elain I've never felt." "Elain makes me happy." I mean he would have literally said ANYTHING about Elain as a person or how he makes him feel but Az decides to go with:
"You guys got two sisters and I'm the third brother so why didn't I get the third sister because that would be fair?" I'm paraphrasing but that is what it amounts to. He wants Elain because his brothers got mated to sisters so why didn't he? He said nothing of wanting Elain because of who she is. Who she's related to should have no bearing on why Az wants her.
Then Rhys gets pissed and asks exactly what his plan is when it comes to Elain. Az can see Rhys is pissed so now would be a good time (for someone who is supposed to be intelligent, correct?) to ease his concerns. But instead he says nothing and thinks to himself that he doesn't have a plan in regards to Elain, not beyond jerking himself off at night.
It's a riot that E/riels think we have an issue with masturbation. Give me all the smut, SJM could be even more graphic and I'd have no problem with that. However in a romance book, I want there to be romance along with the smut. I don't want the MMC's plans for the FMC to have only gotten so far as to involve her being his sperm receptacle especially after he's had a "crush" on her for a year.
So now is when Rhys lays down his order and brings up the political aspect of things because everything Az has said or hasn't said is a complete joke up to this point. From Rhys's perspective, Az is willing to risk the peace in their world to get laid and it's valid for him to think that because Az has not said otherwise. Rhys tells him to stay away and in classic Az fashion he tries to disobey Rhys because he doesn't like being given orders (canon throughout the series).
Rhys then says, "if you need someone to fuck, pay for it at the pleasure hall".
If this were not the truth......then this would be another moment for Az to deny it vehemently. Sorry but if I loved a girl and my best friend thought I was just using her for sex, I would speak up. I would make him understand. But instead Az walks away, being knocked from his anger which clouded his judgement and he admits to himself that the night was a mistake.
People love to use these lines in favor of E/riel, showing his angst but:
"Knowing that if he slept in the riverside manor, he'd do something he regretted. He'd been vigilant about keeping away from Elain as much as possible, and had stayed up here to avoid her, and tonight.....tonight had proved he'd been right to do so."
If Az stayed at the River House after all, went to her room and something happened between them, he's telling us it would be something he regretted. He's telling us that he's avoided her because nearly kissing on Solstice turned out to be the wrong thing.
If Az went to Elain's room to apologize and they shared a moment, why would that be something he regretted? Shouldn't she be worth whatever came their way as a result? Shouldn't he care enough to sit and talk to her and make a plan?
If he loves Elain then why when he left Rhys were his thoughts not, "he just doesn't understand how I feel about her?" Why were his thoughts instead, "I knew this would be a bad idea?"
And why if we're meant to remain focused on Elain and Az did the chapter morph into how much better he felt after being around Gwyn? And why did it end with something glowing in his chest for Gwyn and not Elain?
Do E/riels honestly want to see a Gwyn / Az / Elain love triangle?
Because I hate to say it, he's already shown admiration for Gwyn in a way he hasn't for Elain. He already believes in Gwyn more than he believes in Elain. And yes, Az called Elain beautiful but not "the most beautiful female" he'd seen (cause you know that's something E/riels love to hang on to). Cassian calls Elain beautiful too. Eris notes that his brothers mate is a beauty. Rhys comments on it. And Graysen let Elain go despite her beauty so I think it's clear that not only is beauty not enough to hold on to someone but there is still the very real possibility that the most beautiful female Az has ever seen will be Gwyn (just as Cassian noted Nesta as the most beautiful thing he'd ever seen in SF but not before). Beautiful in this world means nothing because everyone is beautiful. And yeah, it's part of Elain's character because people tend to think there's nothing beyond her beauty since that's what they focus on, even her mother at a young age, however in this series only Lucien has ever thought of her as the most beautiful female he'd ever seen, a big deal considering he instantly felt guilty for thinking that of her, worrying that it was a betrayal to Jesminda. Az might think Elain is beautiful but it didn't sucker punch him in the way it did Lucien. Elain's beauty impacted Lucien to the point that it caused a torrent of emotions while Az is pretty matter of fact about it.
And if Az was able to start moving on from Mor after 500 centuries to develop a fixation on Elain for a year, then it should really only take him a few weeks to drop his fixation on Elain and move on to Gwyn. Not that I think SJM will do that because a break from the female variety would do him good but you get what I mean. I do think he'll easily move on from Elain, take time to deal with his issues including Mor, then he and Gwyns arc will build further.
Wouldn't it be better to admit that the Az and Elain pairing has now gotten way too messy, where Az couldn't reassure his best friend he had actual feeling for her? Where Az now has another women who brings out something in him we've yet to see?
If you honestly want what's best for Elain than how can anyone think it's Az after the thought of Gwyn's happiness causing something in his chest to glow?
Is it not insanely clear at this point that the male who is not cruel and does not seek revenge, who has longed for her for 2 years but denied his suffering so she could try and go back to her fiancé, who has never once pressured her about the bond, who literally has Sunshine in his blood, who can hold her in his arms at night and tell her stories about her father before they lost him, who does not feel something sparking in his chest for any other woman (and no, laughing with a female is not the same thing) is Elain's best match?
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bookofmirth · 2 years
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The difference between Azriel being protective of Elain and the other males of their mates is clear as hell.
Like, yes we have seen Hunt not wanting Bryce to do dangerous things, but Hunt literally discussed it with Bryce. He didn't make a decision on his own. He didn't spoke for Bryce. He told her why he doesn't want her to do this or that (valid reasons: it could cost Bryce's and other's lives + he wanted to finally live a peaceful life after all the sh*t they endured).
Azriel was fricking QUITE when Elain made it clear as hell what she wanted! He fricking listened to her, and when she was gone he told the IC that Elain shouldn't do that. That's so disrespectful. I have seen Sjm LI males being protective of their mates, yes, but NONE of them made decisions for their mates BEHIND their backs, after they heard them say what they wanted to do.
I can't believe that people are also comparing this to Cassian saying "and Nesta should"?! You know the difference? Nesta made it clear that she did NOT want to scry, yet no one in the IC except for Cassian cared about what Nesta wanted and Amren basically used Elain on Nesta so Nesta wouldn't have any other choice then to accept. Azriel was like "Elain shouldn't do that" and it sounded like it's okay for Nesta to face dark sh*t but not Elain.
Azriel spoke for Elain without her knowing. He knew what she wanted, saw her arguing with Nesta about it and how frustrated she was when Nesta told her no. He disrespected her choice. He also spoke for her in the bonus chapter to Rhys. That's so Ironic, given the fact El/riels love to talk about how her choices matter.
I have seen Sjm LI males being protective of their mates, yes, but NONE of them made decisions for their mates BEHIND their backs, after they heard them say what they wanted to do.
I WISH I COULD PUT THIS IN BIG ASS NEON FLASHING LIGHTS
Even if she were the kind of writer to do that, who wants to be undermined by their partner when they aren't in the room?! I mean?! In what fucking world is that anywhere near okay?! And Az didn't have to guess at what Elain wanted, he didn't have to pause and wonder "WWED", he literally knew, and didn't give a shit.
And yes, Nesta did it to Elain too. That doesn't make Az right, it makes both of them fucked up.
The difference is that a sibling relationship is completely different from a romantic relationship. Siblings are stuck with one another and don't always get along. Nesta and Elain have a complicated relationship but they don't necessarily owe one another anything. They aren't supporting one another financially or emotionally or in literally any other way. Nesta arguing with Elain was uncalled for, but ultimately there is no assumption of support there, there is no expectation that Nesta will be in Elain's corner 100% of the time. A romantic relationship is a partnership - which, side note, is why the entire fandom hates the pregnancy plot. So yes, if Az and Elain were a viable romantic relationship, that does come with the expectation that he like... back her up? That he support her? That he has her back? Which he quite literally doesn't.
He fricking listened to her, and when she was gone he told the IC that Elain shouldn't do that. That's so disrespectful.
This is just. Gag. To sit back, watch your so-called love interest get in an argument and try to assert herself, do literally nothing to help, and then when she leaves the room, turn and say "so anyway, we're going to disregard that..." I mean, we have Mor not wanting to tell Az where she's going because she knows he'll have a similar reaction. Mor intentionally hides things from him to avoid Az getting upset.
You know the difference? Nesta made it clear that she did NOT want to scry, yet no one in the IC except for Cassian cared about what Nesta wantedThat's not love, my friends, and I really hope people aren't laboring irl under the assumption that it is.
It's almost like context matters!
That's so Ironic, given the fact El/riels love to talk about how her choices matter.
I mean the irony that people are screaming about her choice but don't care that this dude is failing time and again to support her choice - when he's around her a lot and knows what she wants. Okay. Sure, Jan.
There are just like 1,001 reasons why that ship isn't happening, of which that small comment is just one.
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gwyns · 2 years
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Is it true that there is an artwork of Lucien searching for Elain while she's banging Azriel? And an artwork of Lucien abusing Elain?
If so, could you or anyone else tell me the name of the artist? I don't want to support them nor see their content. I want to stay far away from that artist.
It's upsetting to me that El/riels have painted Lucien as this abuser. I have been in a extrem abusive friendship before and I know exactly how it feels like to be in that kind of friendship and having such difficulties to leave that friend, because you think you owe them everything and that you're in the wrong. This is one of the things that make me relate to this character. Lucien did try to help Feyre and had to make decisions that were not easy. Everytime he tried to help Feyre, he would get abused by Tamlin. Of course he would try to bring back Feyre from the NC in order to stop Tamlin to make a deal with Hybern + thinking that Feyre is hurting in the NC, because of the reputation that Rhys has. Lucien has seen and heard about the many f*cked up sh*t that Rhys did and he's known for manipulation, so obviously in his eyes, the NC wouldn't be a good option. Even if, Lucien has apologized and made up for it by freeing Vassa and bringing a whole army to fight Hybern. Then, Lucien has never ever done anything to Elain. Tugging on the bond? Feyre told him to find out what is "wrong" with her. Claiming she's "his" in his mind? That was the mating bond speaking and he claimed he is hers as well. Giving Elain presents? He did that on winter solstice and he brought presents for Feyre too. He visits Velaris rarely and it's not even always for Elain. When he's there, he doesn't watch her like a hawk, he talks to the others. It's all funny, considering they're the same people that claim he doesn't care about Elain because he's far away from her. But when he breathes the same air as her, he's abusing her?
Azriel has done and said worse things about Elain. "He hadn't gotten that far with his planning certainly not beyond the fantasies he pleasured himself to" "yet the third is given to another" "I could easily beat him" + underestimating Elain and going so far as to tell the IC that Elain shouldn't help, when she wanted to. But that is not entitlement, it's all love and "omg he cares so much for her"?! He's worse to Mor even, yet Mor got all the blame. But Is it even surprising? Gwyn had done nothing wrong at all, yet you've seen all the evil theories that include Gwyn's SA.
Abuse is not a godsdamn joke and I'm dissapointed to see people see it as one. It's hurting me 🙁
unfortunately i think these do exist. i haven't seen them myself (thank god) but i've seen enough people discuss them. if anyone can help anon out with who the artist(s) are that would be very much appreciated !!!
i understand how frustrating it can be to see a whole side of the fandom purposefully misread a character and villianize them all for a ship. lucien has always been my favorite and it sucks, it really does, to have so many go out of their way to be so obtuse. lucien tried to help feyre, MULTIPLE times. and if there was anything for him to be forgiven for, she already has so what's everyone's issue? he "wronged" feyre, not you.
i never see lucien antis talk about how literally EVERYONE saw rhys as this horrible, sadistic, monster... bc they did, and you know why? BC RHYS HIMSELF MADE THAT HIS REPUTATION. it is not wrong for a character to be wary of him, especially if they don't know him as well as feyre or the reader does. i don't understand how this concept is so hard to grasp?
exactly anon, ex-fucking-actly. if lucien shows an interest in elain, he's abusive and not respecting her choice, but if he leaves and gives her space, he simply doesn't care!! lucien is the most respectful man in this series. he's showing elain that he would like to get to know her, if she chooses, and giving her the time and space to figure out what she wants. he's doing everything right. if i wasn't already convinced that e/riels haven't read the books, this would do it for me.
YES!!!!!!! azriel has CANONICALLY treated elain as an object. being called "the third" is so fucking gross. he doesn't view her as elain, a PERSON, he views her as a mate that the cauldron "gave" to lucien. i understand that azriel isn't in the best place mentally rn but this behavior is so.... disgusting.
i'm so pissed at how this fandom treats mor. azriel is a GROWN ASS MAN if he can't understand that mor doesn't reciprocate his feelings after 500+ years, that's on HIM. not her. do i think they should sit down and talk about everything? sure!! but it is in no way mor's fault for how he has acted.
don't even get me started on gwyn... the way they treat her is so disheartening. i just know they're awful people irl too.
i hope with the official announcement of acotar 5 that all of this will calm down some, it might be a bit delusional to think this way, but i'm so tired of all the negativity within this fandom. this used to be my safe space but now..... :/
i'm so sorry you have to deal with this, anon. i'm always, always here if you need anything 💕✨
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maychild · 2 years
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MC'S BL WATCHLIST
(in order of most excited for bc honestly there are so many bl's coming out and i'm losing track) (also, all most links lead to legal streaming sites for all dramas so pls support these dramas legally every which way u can...)
~CURRENTLY WATCHING/OBSESSING OVER
THE SIGN -- this was a show i didn't really want to start until it finished its run, but then i started seeing gifs from the first two eps and was intrigued and literally couldn't wait until february when the show finished...idk, i do love the pain of keeping up with ongoing shows sometimes.
BIG DRAGON THE SERIES -- i...i dunno?? i heard it's vaguely kinnporsche-esque, but i'm not seeing it. a thai bl about two decidedly asshole-ish people trying to blackmail one another and having dubious sex bc of the drugging and attempted blackmail.
SHE LOVES TO COOK, AND SHE LOVES TO EAT -- a sweet, short sapphic jdrama about two women who are neighbors. one of them likes to cook a lot, but she only cooks small portions for herself, and the other woman loves to eat, so the woman who likes to cook invites the other woman to dinner one night and a beautiful friendship (and more?) forms...
BAD BUDDY -- thai bl about rival families a la Romeo/Juliet but Romeo/Romeo, i guess?? heard rave reviews about it. BINGED THREE EPS WHEN I SHOULD'VE BEEN SLEEPING???? no regrets tho (well...some regrets.)
THE TUXEDO -- thai BL about a tailor and super stuck up rich dude. the quality is...bad. it's nonsensical; there's absolutely no plot, and translations are horrible too, unfortunately. i don't have any expectations about this series and i'm only tuning in because the two main leads are attractive af. (the production and technical aspects are very reminiscent of vietnam BLs; sigh. i was hoping this would give me history 3: trapped vibes what with the suits and dapper men, but unfortunately that is the only good thing about this series: the men in suits.) i can see the potential for this series to be great, but they keep disappointing me. I also keep imagining a BL series like bad buddy but where they're both *rivals* in the tailoring business. like, i'd eat that sh*t up. having the damnedest time even finishing ep 1 bc, well, see above.
~ OTHERS IM INTERESTED IN CHECKING OUT
IN YOUR HEART -- a chinese bl?? which is unheard of now if u're familiar with chinese censorship on all things gay and el gee bee tee queue plus.
FIRST LOVE, AGAIN -- aka, First Love For Three Times, a six ep korean bl featuring reincarnation\
YOU'RE MY SKY -- thai BL about sports.
OH! BOARDING HOUSE -- k-bl about a dude whose mother owns a boarding house but suddenly leaves him in charge of said boarding house and some people in the boarding house develop crushes on him?? idk, landlords must not be evil over there in korea.
*this is a living post; updated december 2023
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scarletbirbs · 2 years
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Holy shit the colorist on Superman: Son of Kal-El is literally quitting over DC's recent changes to Superman.
This is what he said about it:
"I'm finishing out my contract with DC. I'm tired of this sh-t, I'm tired of them ruining these characters; they don't have a right to do this...It's not about gay or anything else. What really pissed me off was saying truth, justice, and a better world, f-ck that it was Truth, Justice, and the American way. My Grandpa almost died in World War II; we don't have a right to destroy sh-t that people died for to give us. It's a bunch of f-cking nonsense. They call us bigots and racist and sh-t, I would ask them, find me in the f-cking mainstream, not on the fringes, one f-cking book, one f-cking t-shirt, one movie that says that leftism is bad, and conservatism is good, find it for me, they f-cking won't they're not letting people have a voice, they're the f-cking bigots. Sorry, that's been bottled up for five years."
I initially thought it was about Jon being bi, but it seems to be more like he's upset about liberalism making its way into comics.
He said the quote above a 4.5 hour livestream with other comic creators where apparently all of this also happened:
"And he went on a recent four-and-a-half-hour Livestream with other prominent Comicsgate-related creators who were castigating the bisexual Superman move, spending much of those hours making… well… gay jokes. Dan Fraga asked that after having gay characters had run their course, what was next? Jon Malin predicted that they would make them pedophiles next, "mark my words Batman will be f-cking Robin." Art Thibert even decided to announce that I was gay as part of the discussion, though to paraphrase Charlie Chaplin, I don't have that honour. There was also the observation made that an increase in gay superheroes was to "reprogram readers" and "ultimately win elections"."
I'm just stunned. My opinion on the Superman motto change is that it's good because it shows how Superman is fighting for a better future for all people? Not just those that subscribe to American values. There are more people in the world than just Americans.
And the second quote I have on here from that article really just destroys any sense of credibility that any of those creators have to me if they were really resorting to gay jokes on their livestream.
It's just sad really.
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giorgiastastes · 4 years
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El hoyo (2019)
"The message needs no carrier" (spoiler: it actually does)
"There are 3 kinds of people; the ones above, the ones below, and the ones who fall. "
I've just watched this small masterpieces and here's my own interpretation.
Obviously the whole movie is a big metaphor. Both an analogy about our society and one about the Afterlife are present.
First of all, in my view, the place they're kept into is like a Purgatory between heaven and hell. The protagonist entered there voluntary because after the six months trial he would have expiated his sins and would finally be ready to enter Heaven. The old man is an accidental killer, therefore he doesn't deserve Hell, but definitely can't go into Heaven either, and his punishment is longer than Goreng's because he did in fact end a life.
Also Goreng is referenced multiples times as the Messiah, and his travel towards this purge tower is quite similar to Dante's one.
Each prisoner wakes up the first day of the month in a different position, which represents our birth. Some are born in better environments, families and countries and all of it is just luck, fate.
Then, since everyone knows that each of higher floors will likely take advantage of their position, our selfishness takes the best of us.
The higher floors know that the lower ones will literally eat their leftovers, while the ones under know that they better take as much as they can, otherwise they won't be able to survive. There's no altruism or generosity in the society.
You're placed high, you sh*t on who's below. You're below, you dream to reach above.
Each of the characters represents something.
The first roommate, the old man, is someone who's very aware of their surrounding, who's tired of fighting and knows very well how the world works because he's been in a better as much as a worse situation.
The lady coming from the Administration is a middle class representative, trying to change the world but also completely unaware of what's happening right under her nose.
The fact that she keeps on saying that a baby cannot be there and there are 200 floors is just further proof that we blindly lie to ourselves that things can't be that bad, that the world isn't that evil and the rules are respect, being delusional of course, to help us sleep at night. That's why when she hits lower than what she was told was possible, she killed herself.
She's also a vegetarian, with a big love for animals. She obviously represents both an activist that is trying to tell others that they shouldn't eat more than they need, because that means that who's lower won't have anything left, which is such a big innuendo to climate change, but at the same time she's also a privileged person who's never been lower than a certain point and thinks that anyone can easily "just eat less" without caring about other's issues (it reminded me of some vegans who cannot accept that veganism is not accessible or sustainable for the majority of the would population)
The last roommate, the one with the rope represents a religious person, who endures the hardship without giving up because of his faith.
Another pragmatic sequence in my opinion was the one where the two, while descending the tower, met an ill man with a companion with the Down Syndrome (I'm sorry if I'm sounding insensitive is just that I don't know how else to better describe the scene to make it recognizable to you) who said that he will proceed to suffocate his cellmate to also eat what went into his stomach even while being no more hungry himself, I mean, can you better descrive greed than this sentence?
Now, coming to the final scene, which left many of the viewers disappoint or confused, here's my idea.
The deranged girl who claims to have a daughter is definitely crazy, but not completely gone. I do believe there is a baby there, and the Administration is probability unaware of that because there's someone higher than them, and they're being lied to, also. But I don't think the protagonist actually saw the little girl.
I think that he reached such a place of histeria that he convinced himself that the baby was alive, hallucinating, to have a last strand of hope as he was dying. Notice how the baby is perfectly clean and well nourished, that would be impossible. The little girl is long gone and dead God knows in which floor but he convinced himself that he saw her as a way of also hoping that some kind of humanity is still left, that they wouldn't kill and eat an innocent and innocuous creature. But that's not the case.
Notice how he reaches the 333th floor and then walks like he doesn't even have a scar. Now multiply that number for each room residents, which are two. He's dead and has now reached Hell. There he finds his first roommate who's also in Hell since they both damned themselves letting their selfishness take over. The lady is obviously absent, since she never hurt a thing or specifically ate someone's flesh.
The baby was all part of his imagination and she doesn't reach the 0 level, simply because she was never there in the first place.
The girl could have been the message if she reached the top, since it would have proven how flawed the system is, but she never will. Some people claimed that it is not possible to reach the top because of how fast the platform goes, that it will just crash on the ceiling. I do not agree. There's no point in letting the platform crash each time so it will probably slow down enough to reach level 0, in facts we don't even know how tall level 1 is.
Someone also claimed that it's impossible that no one else ever reached the top through this method, which means to go all the way down to then come back up. First of all, it could have happened and that person could have been sent back down, but what I find most reasonable is that no one knows how deep the hole is, probably up to hell, and no one is brave enough to do it because no matter how bad your situation is, you're still afraid of having it worse. It's a suicidal mission which led to crazyness and then death even our brave characters.
Another reference I've loved is when it's mentioned that usually the poorest kill each other's to survive, while the richest have the highest rate of suicide. Why is that? Easy, they have nothing to endure, to live for, they have everything, they're not longing for the hope of food plus there's frightening in knowing that the next month it can only worsen.
So now the question remains: What is the ending then if the baby doesn't reach the top? The finale guys was right in front of our eyes, around the middle of the movie. Remember when the chef complains to other cooks about the hair in the pannacotta? That's the real ending: the pannacotta reaches the top (further proof that the platform won't crash) as the message but instead of being interpreted as a statement of insurrection, the level 0 workers believe it was sent back because there was a hair in there. This is the ultimate slap in the face, the final proof that those people are so out of touch, so blind towards what's happening downstairs that they think that was the issue, the hair in the pannacotta, without realizing that people are literally eating each others down there.
So, there was actually a satisfying finale which gave us answers, it's just that the finale was not at the end as usual.
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spell-cleavers · 2 years
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So since Elain ignores Lucien and has said that she doesn't want a mating bond nor a male... their logic is:
Elain needs to end up with Azriel. Anyone else would not be by Elain's choice, that would be taking away her choice.
I don't think they know what the word "choice" means, right?
They talk so much about how importantent the choice of a women is, but that's whenever it's about Elain or when they get the chance to make Gwynriels and Eluciens look bad. For example when half of them got mad that an artist (who isn't even involve in the shipwar btw) didn't draw Emerie and because of that, half of them claimed they love and appraciate Emerie more than Gwynriels, when they actually never talked about Emerie before until they found the opportunity to jumb at Gwynriels. They never talked about Mor's rights, Gwyn's rights and Nesta's rights. Only about Elain's rights and that is only when El/riel and Elucien are involved. Not to mention all the hate towards Gwyn that is only coming from El/riel.
It's not Lucien's fault that Elain ignores his existence. It's all because of the mating bond. Lucien has been nothing but respectful and gives her so much space and time, yet they jumb at Lucien and Eluciens for literally breathing the same air as her and then involve this "women rights" talk and how it's so important for Elain, yet chose to ignore the toxic behaviour Azriel has and the fact that it's actually canon that he makes Mor very uncomfortable. So what it all actually means is that women rights only matter if it benefits El/riel.
There are sh*tty Eluciens and Gwynriels, but I have seen Gwynriels and Eluciens talking about Mor's rights and choices and adressed Azriel's actions. Yes, Gwynriels ship Azriel with Gwyn, but they still talk about how his behaviour is problematic. They don't want Gwyn to fix him or that Azriel will magically become such a gentleman if he ends up with Gwyn, they all want Azriel to get his sh*t right first before he goes into a relationship with Gwyn.
(Idk if it made sense? English isn't my first language)
“Elain deserves choice, as long as that choice is Azriel.”
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acourtofthought · 1 year
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What has Azriel done for Elain though?
What role did he play in her healing journey that apperantly happened off page? Cassian played an Important role in Nesta's journey and Rhys did in Feyre's. Not just as love interests but they were one of the reasons why the girls are now in a better place.
Azriel, unlike Lucien, sees Elain everyday. It was never ordered from him to stay away from her before, so why did he just stand there doing nothing? They got some finger touches, shy glances but nothing more? Azriel had always had the best chances to get to know Elain more. Plenty of opportunities to start something meaningful with Elain, but he did not? Meanwhile Lucien has to ask for permission to see his own mate and even then he gets monitored like he's a criminal. He rarely sees her and their bond is being used to control Lucien.
So this argument that Lucien doesn't care about her but Azriel does is so stupid, given that he did not care enough to find her and make sure that she's okay like Lucien did right after the war, literally after she made the killing blow KNOWING that she despises violence. Did not care enough to approach her in those 2 years and at least have some type of conversations. He did not care enough about her to trust her when she declared that she wants to help find the trove and is capable of doing that. He did not care enough to tell her to wait for a moment and that he'll be back instead of saying "this was a mistake". He did not care enough to just give the necklace back to the Shop owner, instead giving it to another women. He did not care enough to seek her out and apologize, instead he easily stayed away from her as he was ordered to. He did not care about her enough, like el/riels claim, to even look at her and that is going on for months and months after winter solstice. For El/riels to claim that he can't live without Elain, he seems to be doing fine and sure as hell is still breathing without her in his life.
Kinda same for Elain. What has she done for Azriel that got him to be able to heal a little. She made him laugh? Nesta and Gwyn also made him laugh. He's gentle with her than with anyone else? Actually, he's gentle to Nesta and Gwyn, Feyre, Mor and other women most likely too. His POV proved that he is feeling worse than good. Seeing someone as some type of goddess and himself as a monster is not some romantic sh*t people love to claim, especially when he did that with Mor too. Azriel always sees himself beneath everyone else.
Before someone comes in and declares some crap..yes, Gwyn hasn't done much for Azriel either and so hasn't Azriel for Gwyn, but keep in mind that Gwynriel just met after a traumatic event that happened 2 years ago. No one is claiming they're in love and they just started to be more comfortable around each other, especially Gwyn with Azriel.
Elucien too. They don't get the chance of even having a 5 min conversation without anyone monitoring them and without Elain still having plenty of issues with the fae life, specifically the bond.
But again- El*riel had plenty of opportunities in those 2 and more years. For people to claim that he cares so much about her, that Elain is healing and that Azriel can only heal with her in his life, it sure as hell doesn't look like it.
I'm sure he cares bout her, but not to the point of love. Not what El*riels claim to say.
You made so many good points in your ask and I also think the "Az hasn't done much for Gwyn" can be easily disproven.
Rhys, Cassian, and Lucien were there for their Mates in a way that made sense for them as individuals and their circumstance.
Rhys left Feyre alone as long as he did ONLY because it seemed to be what she wanted. But the second she called out for help he was there. And he KNEW that what she needed was someone to push her to reach her potential so she could find herself again. So she could believe in herself again. And that's what he gave her through their training, through the situations with the Attor, the Weaver, etc. Did it look a bit harsh? Tossing her into the deep end to see if she'd sink or swim? Yes but.....it's exactly what Feyre needed.
With Cassian and Nesta, sure he tried to give her space to figure out what she needed. But again, when that failed, he stepped in with his tough love. He pushed her to train, to find a healthy outlet for her anger and frustrations while also talking her through her deepest issues.
With Lucien, he stood by Elain's side as much as he was permitted (we all know he would have preferred to be more involved however Feyre and Nesta blocked him at nearly every turn). He continued thinking of things that might help her even when he wasn't being included by the others. Getting her outside, having a healer look her over, sitting with her himself and trying to reach out through the bond (which again, was interrupted by Nesta). And when he realized that she was starting to heal and needed time to herself, he volunteered to leave so she could have that.
The sisters experiences though, were not Gwyn's experience. They were all horrible but different. And what Az did for her did seem to be what Gwyn needed after being SA by a Male and nearly SA by other Males. The same Males who murdered her sister.
His first action for Gwyn was slaughtering everyone who had brought the nightmare upon her. He then covered her which I'm guessing she greatly appreciated after being so exposed. He then, respectfully handed her off to a female who might have the ability to set her at more ease than yet another Male she didn't know. And he gave her the time and space to surround herself with only females she felt safe with rather than pushing his way into her life and forcing his presence upon her.
I really think Az did do everything that was in his power to help Gwyn's healing because I don't think she would have wanted anything more from any Male until she decided she was ready for it.
As far as Gwyn, she brought Az a sense of calmness without even trying to. That's a pretty big deal for someone like him.
And I agree. Elain was in the HOW for months before Lucien arrived and she hadn't been eating, drinking, talking, etc. Rhys tells us that he, Az, Cassian and a few trusted servants were the only ones permitted access to her. Yet we're given absolutely no indication Az did anything for Elain during that time or whether he even tried to visit her. My guess is no but, even if he did, it's pretty apparent he wasn't able to do anything to bring her out of her depression. So Az, to me, gets no credit for helping Elain during the lowest moments of her life.
And after Elain did start to recover, I think she appreciated that Az was this polite human looking Male who sat quietly beside her but we're given no impression that she ever tried to get to know him during that time. Sure she "noticed" he rubs his head but......what about the deep stuff? If people are really going to claim they're in love than I'm a little confused what it is she loves about him. He says she doesn't know him and the deepest thing she's said about him is that he seems to get headaches from people. She called his scars or his siphons "beautiful" but did she ever ask him a question about either one? Sorry but I refuse to believe that all these deep moments happened off page and we're just supposed to believe they are in love without having witnessed the journey to get there. It doesn't make for a believable romance especially, when like you said, no one is preventing them from spending all their time together talking about everything under the stars.
(Honorable Mentions - he was about to pass out after the Hybern rescue and she kissed his cheek then walked to Feyre 😂)
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acourtofthought · 1 year
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Sjm making Elain and Lucien mates, only for them to avoid the bond and each other until one of them finally rejects the mating bond without ever giving it a chance and see where it leads to before making a decision would be Sjm most dumbest move. Literally, what would be the point of their mating bond if it's just gonna be put aside? Lucien would respect Elain's desicion so really.. what's the point?
They've done nothing with it and you're telling me they'll contuine doing nothing about it while Elain is having some secret banging with bat boy #3 and Lucien figuring his sh*t out until the final rejection? Lol, I guess Sjm couldn't think of better conflicts for El/riel 🤭
Though, after acosf I'm still debating wether or not Sjm would pull a move like that... after she created that stupid killing baby plot to have some type of drama in Nessian's book going on, I'm really not sure anymore.
It's just lazy writing. Think of better conflicts then this.
If SJM puts Elain and Lucien together on page with no other characters around, where she's not completely shutting down because of whatever it is that is making her feel the way she currently does and we see zero chemistry between them, then I will admit defeat to the possibility of Elucien. The fact that they've never truly interacted gives me hope though. I realize that SJM may have dropped certain storylines that she could have done so much with and added others that we're not fond of but the one thing she does and she does well is write intense interactions between the characters. And she's got the absolute perfect setup with Lucien and Elain. Two somewhat reserved characters who always hold back what they're thinking being given this intense, crazy thing (the mating bond) that neither of them was hoping for and they've both been struggling with and people honestly believe that they'll just cross paths one day after never interacting and say, "hey, I'm freeing you from our bond" and the other says, "ok, have a happy life!" and that's going to be it? This is a chance for both Lucien and Elain to get loud and go at it and have a raw discussion about this thing that happened to both of them and all the struggles it's caused them, making them run from one another while still wanting to turn around and run right back. I'd bet money on the fact that SJM isn't going to let all that potential just fizzle out. At the very least we are going to see them get to know one another because it would be a disservice to the Mother / Fate otherwise. Maybe they'll decide they aren't meant to be (I personally don't think so but you never know). But I doubt they'll toss something away that's supposed to be the ultimate gift without giving it real consideration.
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bookofmirth · 2 years
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What pisses me off about the El/riel fandom is that they sh*t on Rhys and say " Oh, so he's allowed to steal Feyre from Tamlin but Azriel isn't??" and then call him a hypocrite.
Rhys's situation:
- He and Feyre share a mating bond.
- He loved Feyre and was even willing to let her be with Tamlin, just for her happiness.
- Tamlin was very abusive towards Feyre and she was doing not okay.
- Feyre herself begged for not Rhys, but literally anyone to come save her.
- Feyre has great powers that would have made her hurt herself and others if Mor and Rhys didn't save her, because she wasn't allowed to lern how to control them.
- Not only did he save her because of his love for her and her health but also because she's needed for war with her powers.
Azriel's situation:
- Elain shares a mating bond with someone else.
- Elain is doing fine and she does not need saving.
- Elain can reject the mating bond and do whatever she whishes. She would have the IC's full protection if she did.
- Lucien keeps his distance and lets her have all the freedom and time she wants.
- Rhys would have let el/riel be happy if Azriel just told him the right reasons. He gave him a goddamn chance.
- Azriel feels entilted to her and the only reason he could give Rhys was "my 2 brothers got 2 of her sisters, so the third sister should be mine"
- Azriel never thought beyond the fantasies he pleasured himself to, which shows that he does not have any deep feelings for her.
Like- their situations are entirely different. If Rhys had allowed Azriel to be with Elain after all the crap Azriel has told him... believe me when I say that this relationship wouldn't last long. They wouldn't have a HEA.
(I don't like Rhys that much, but since he did the right decision in the bonus chapter- I defend him only this time)
Rhys lost the majority of his rights after acosf, BUT we do have books and books of him doing the right thing. We know exactly how Rhys behaved when his mate was in love with someone else, about to marry someone else. The whole "what if the Cauldron was wrong" argument holds ZERO weight with Rhysand when that does not matter. When Elain can say "fuck the Cauldron, it's always been Az!" So why does Az mention the Cauldron at all? Or the symmetry? He's desperate and not thinking clearly, and certainly not thinking about what Elain wants or needs - and that in comparison to what you've said about Rhys, who thought of NOTHING but what Feyre wanted and needed.
Honestly, the more I think about it, Az saying "what if the Cauldron was wrong" was like... the last fucking thing to say to Rhys, a dude who was about to let his Cauldron-"given" mate marry someone else. The Cauldron doesn't fucking matter when it comes to love, Az, and you shouldn't have to throw its importance behind your argument when that's the literal opposite of what your bestie and High Lord stands for.
I mean, if the Cauldron was "wrong", then what, Azriel Shadowsinger? Do you think that's a good argument for Rhys to then strong-arm Elain into being with you? Because I think the implications there are nasty, you're desperate and lonely and sad, and it's showing.
Know your audience, Azriel! Rhys was about to suffer for the rest of his life letting Feyre marry Tamlin despite the Cauldron/Mother/whatever pairing them. The fact is that Elain has a mating bond, and knowing it's with someone different wouldn't necessarily change her mind about the concept. If she wanted to be with you (Az), she already would have been because no one is making her act otherwise. Just like Feyre was with Tamlin, despite her bond with Rhys.
Meanwhile, in comparison to how Rhys treated the Feyre situation, Az has done the opposite. Just because he's being quietly disrespectful (not just of the elucien mating bond, but of Rhys, Feyre, Lucien, and Elain as individuals too) doesn't make it any less impactful. And the fact that he was willing to say "what if the Cauldron was wrong" isn't sexy, it's him saying "what if I'm actually her mate and she is forced to consider me instead of Lucien". I think that he was speaking out of desperation and wouldn't actually go so far as to rely on the Cauldron in that way, but why does his mind go there? It's just a sign of his overall mental state, imho.
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