#Anti SasuNaruSasu

[leportraitducadavre]

Alright, since I’ve received multiple asks about who I ship Sasuke with (or if I have a problem with specific ships), I’ll reiterate my posture regarding shipping culture:

I think it’s very poor, borderline shortsighted, to focus so incredibly much on the possibility of a character –that never specified being sexually interested in anyone, having a romantic partner. Besides the fact that Sasuke is a very traumatized man, a survivor of state-sanctioned genocide which affects his libido to the point of it being non-existent, the entirety of his characterization revolves around him seeking justice for his family. No. It’s not about his bond with Naruto, it’s not about his apparent sexual tension with Karin, nor is it about his crush (the fuck?) on Sakura. 

It’s Naruto the one whose characterization revolves around his bond with Sasuke, it’s Karin the one whose characterization revolves around her sexual desire for Sasuke, and it’s Sakura the one whose characterization revolves around her crush on Sasuke –Sasuke’s entire arc differs completely from theirs, as his entire goal, through the entire series, is about seeking justice for his family. 

What happens once Sasuke realizes he won’t be able to kill Itachi if he stays in Konoha? He leaves because he chooses his goal as an Avenger before his connection with Team 7 (yes, Itachi’s presence also reminded him of the imminent threat of having bonds that Itachi could easily destroy, but he doesn’t leave to protect T7, but to seek power to kill his brother). What happens once Sasuke kills Itachi? He learns about the truth behind the UCM, and decides to barge into the Kage Summit to kill Danzo and not return to Konoha. What happens once he kills Danzö? He still decides not to return and plans to bring the entire system down. I mean, where is his “bond with Naruto” in all this? Where is his “sexual tension” with Karin in all of this? Where is Sakura’s relevance in all of this? At no single moment does he focus on these bonds, often questioning the reason why these people are so adamant about pursuing him. Am I saying that they don’t matter at all to him? No, and you know that’s not the point of the post unless you’re looking for a reason to get upset in which case, I cannot help you. What I’m saying is that they’re not relevant to his main goal or characterization, as that power rests upon Itachi’s shoulders. Each character here mentioned has either more or less importance throughout his journey, but none of them are detrimental to his objective and none of them are important enough for him throughout the manga to deviate from his ambition (he even tried to kill each one of them when he deemed them a liability or they threatened the continuation of his mission).

Who do I ship Sasuke with? Nobody, I don’t enjoy a single pairing that is attributed to him, and I wish the fandom would realize that the entire plot revolves around the actions and consequences of a fascist regime, and not about who wanted to secretly or not so secretly fuck who, or who deserve his dick and who doesn’t. Yes, I’m being blunt, and some of you will think I’m exaggerating, but if you don’t see me talking about ships as often as you see me speaking about feminism or politics inside the Naruto manga, well, what a shocker, there’s a reason for it.

And to prevent people from putting words in my mouth, let me say this: I’m not saying you can’t enjoy a ship –go crazy if that’s what you want, do art, fanfics, and whatever rocks your boat, I won’t go after you trust me, but oh my god how come some of you would give a “potential romantic couple” so much more relevance than the actual plot?! Sasuke plainly and continuously reminds the characters and the readers what his true goal is and what he wants, and still, some of you will force a deep reading of a bubble of speech detached from his overall characterization to prove that he was smitten with x,y,z all along!

#personal #sasuke #sasuke uchiha #pro sasuke #pro sasuke uchiha #anti shipping culture #anti shipping #anti sns #anti sasunarusasu #anti ss #anti sasusaku #anti sk #anti sasukarin #anti sns fandom #anti ss fandom #anti sasusaku fandom

[madara-fate]

I've seen that whenever soembody mentions any rude or abusive thing sasuke does to sakura , you throw the logic that he was under the hatred which is fair enough , but is there a limit to it ? Like if instead of knocking her out with a harsh genjutsu , he kicked or punched her and then put her in a genjutsu , would you have still shipped them ? Like honestly asking is there a limit to it ? The reason why sasuke x Sakura is always hated upon is because it's a romantic bond , so murder attempts seem extra very distasteful , as for Naruto x sasuke , is that they are rivals and fight so it's fine for them for them or atleast seen in a better manner and also Naruto bond with sasuke was highlighted so people can see that despite those , he still cared about Naruto , but for Sakura there isn't nearly any strong moments .

Naruto went ballistic for hinata during the pain moment , sasuke never had 0.1% of protectiveness for Sakura .

Him leaving again for a decade gives people a bad experience, almost plays it as a joke , hey even kishi joked or laughed at the joke about how sasuke stays away from Sakura because she is a tough woman .

Now karin , you can admit they shared respect and comradery and sasuke the only murder attempt was just him trying to kill danzo , also their biting moments gave them a erotic tone , plus karin feels as strongly as for sasuke than Sakura . Kishi himself said it so their love was same . Sasuke treated karin way better , or respected her and smiled at her .

Imo if sasuke and karin did end up together or were the final couple , people would have taken it way better than sasuke x Sakura , cause karin just seemed to spend more time with and he smiled at her and also cared for her .

Sure ss fans would be upset , but they don't really make up the more than Naruto Stans .

Sasuke treated Sakura pretty awful and even you can't deny it .

I've seen that whenever soembody mentions any rude or abusive thing sasuke does to sakura , you throw the logic that he was under the hatred which is fair enough , but is there a limit to it ? Like if instead of knocking her out with a harsh genjutsu , he kicked or punched her and then put her in a genjutsu , would you have still shipped them ?

There is a limit to it, but the fact of the matter is that Sasuke didn't do those things that you suggested, so what's the point of even mentioning them? It's like you're saying that their relationship should be negatively judged for things that didn't even happen. What people really need to acknowledge, is that the Naruto universe very clearly does not follow the same standards of forgiveness found in reality, yet they're perfectly fine with accepting wholly unrealistic levels of forgiveness for certain things, while giving SS all kinds of shit for incorporating the exact same principles. It doesn't make sense.

The reason why sasuke x Sakura is always hated upon is because it's a romantic bond , so murder attempts seem extra very distasteful , as for Naruto x sasuke , is that they are rivals and fight so it's fine for them for them or atleast seen in a better manner

That makes no sense whatsoever. It does not matter whether the person is your best friend or a potential romantic interest; a murder attempt is a murder attempt, and attempting to kill your potential romantic interest is in no way, shape or form any worse, than attempting to kill your best friend. I'm sorry but I am so sick of hearing people say this nonsense, it's such a weak attempt to try and excuse or justify the plethora of mistreatment found in SNS in comparison to SS, and I'm not having it.

Furthermore, it's not even as if it's a 50/50 thing between SS and SNS. No, Sasuke treated Naruto far worse than he ever did to Sakura, and yet people constantly applaud him for not giving up on Sasuke. Yet, when Sakura also doesn't give up on Sasuke for the exact same reasons, she's instead hated on for apparently being shallow, selfish and all the rest of that typical bullshit.

and also Naruto bond with sasuke was highlighted so people can see that despite those , he still cared about Naruto , but for Sakura there isn't nearly any strong moments .

Just because Sasuke's bond with Naruto was highlighted in comparison to his bond with Sakura, that doesn't mean that his bond with Sakura wasn't highlighted at all. Sasuke literally named her as one of his two precious comrades. And you say there weren't any strong moments for SS? Please refamiliarise yourself with the manga, because I can very easily list plenty of examples.

Naruto went ballistic for hinata during the pain moment , sasuke never had 0.1% of protectiveness for Sakura .

Are you actually serious?

He protected her against Orochimaru

He went "ballistic" for her against the Sound ninja

He was fully willing to risk his life for her against Gaara by buying Naruto time to escape with her because he didn't want to lose someone "dear" to him ever again

He broke every bone in Shin's body while rescuing her

Do you want me to list the examples from the novels too? Goodness gracious.

Him leaving again for a decade gives people a bad experience, almost plays it as a joke , hey even kishi joked or laughed at the joke about how sasuke stays away from Sakura because she is a tough woman.

Firstly, Sasuke wasn't away for a decade. Secondly, so what if Kishi laughed at that during an interview? Literally so what?

Now karin , you can admit they shared respect and comradery and sasuke the only murder attempt was just him trying to kill danzo , also their biting moments gave them a erotic tone , plus karin feels as strongly as for sasuke than Sakura . Kishi himself said it so their love was same . Sasuke treated karin way better , or respected her and smiled at her .

You have to be trolling at this point.

You actually say Sasuke's murder attempt on Karin "was just him trying to kill danzo", which is just a horrible excuse. In case you don't remember, Sasuke literally said that since Karin allowed herself to get captured, she was useless to him:

So to you, that must mean that it was all about Danzo, correct? Unbelievable. Stop trying to justify all of Sasuke's horrible treatment of everyone other than Sakura, the bias here is crazy. This wasn't just Sasuke trying to kill Danzo, this was Sasuke killing two birds with one stone, because he deemed Karin to have become a burden.

To address your other points...

"also their biting moments gave them a erotic tone" - Are you really trying to use Karin's perviness to prove your point?

"plus karin feels as strongly as for sasuke than Sakura . Kishi himself said it so their love was same" - Kishi never said that. What he actually said, was that Sakura and Karin would be able to empathise and understand each other's feelings since they held affection for the same person. He never said that Karin's feelings for Sasuke were as strong or stronger than Sakura's were.

"Sasuke treated karin way better , or respected her and smiled at her" - Sasuke didn't treat Karin better, he didn't respect her any more than he respected Sakura, and not only did he also smile at Sakura, but he also described her as someone dear to him, was willing to sacrifice himself to ensure her survival, acknowledged her as one of his precious comrades, saw the shadow of his family within her and the rest of Team 7, gave her an actual heartfelt apology, and gave her his ultimate expression of affection which was the forehead poke. Now once Sasuke does even half of those things for Karin, then come back.

Imo if sasuke and karin did end up together or were the final couple , people would have taken it way better than sasuke x Sakura , cause karin just seemed to spend more time with and he smiled at her and also cared for her .

Cumulatively speaking, Sasuke actually spent more time with Team 7 than he did with Team Taka.

Sasuke also smiled at Sakura.

Sasuke also cared for Sakura.

So now what?

Sasuke treated Sakura pretty awful and even you can't deny it .

I've never denied that Sasuke treated Sakura poorly. But what you and so many others constantly ignore, is that he treated Naruto far worse, and yet you'll excuse that for bullshit reasons such as how their bond is platonic, as if that makes any difference. Not only that, but people will actually believe that Sasuke treated Karin better than Sakura, at which point I become certain that they literally just don't even have the faintest idea what on earth they're talking about.

#Sasuke Uchiha #Sakura Haruno #sasusaku #Naruto Uzumaki #anti sasunarusasu #Karin Uzumaki

[never-mess-with-the-uchihas]

My boy, when someone tries to ship him with anyone but Sakura -

"I already have a wife and daughter of my own"

bye. 🙂

#sasuke #sasuke uchiha #sakura haruno #sasusaku #sakura #sasuke retsuden #sarada #sarada uchiha #boruto #pro sasusaku #pro sasuke #pro sakura #uchiha sasuke #haruno sakura #naruto #team 7 #anti sns #anti sasukarin #anti sasunarusasu #anti sasunaru

[sasukeharuno12]

maturing is realizing that Sasuke actually loves Sakura and he's not in love with Naruto, his brother figure.

#sasuke uchiha #uchiha sasuke #pro sasusaku #sasuke x sakura #sakura haruno #sakura uchiha #anti sasunaru #anti sasunarusasu #sasuke #anti sns #anti naruto x sasuke #anti narusasu #anti Sasuke x naruto

[p8567899754nhu]

"He knew revenge was Sasuke's goal yet still accepted him as his student. Even teaching him his signature technique. Sasuke fought Naruto out of anger, not a friendly sparring match .Kakashi was helping Sasuke with revenge til it consumed him to the point he was fighting his own comrades."

1. i think it's an overstrech to say kakashi "accepted" sasukes revenge , when through most of it  he was just indifferent to the idea of his revenge(on introduction, he doesnt care that sasuke's main goal in life is revenge) and kakashi helped shikamaru with his revenge , so I preassume ,revenge isnt something kakashi is inherently against so there is no “accepting” sasuke for a different belief like you paint it out to be . although he never backs on using his goal pf revenge (and feelings for his dead clan) as baits for mocking him when he couldnt match up his expectations (land of waves arc) .

2." Even teaching him his signature technique”?

i mean what was he supposed to do ? send him unequipped to the most brutal round 2 contender(-GAARA who whooped 4 gates lee to the point he couldnt be a shinobi again), why does kakashi doing his basic teacher duties make you gape in awe , a lot of fandom whines he didnt taught it to naruto or sakura (never minding neither of them could EVER use chidori properly since they lack sharingan)  and sakura wasnt even finalized for round 2 . never mind how brutal it was of kakashi to make a severly bed ridden sasuke(who was unfit to EVEN WALK-medical attendant’s words) participate in the match further despite the hokage’s and anko’s (who alone knew what it was like to have a curse mark placed on you) advice and call him to learn the technique when medically ,he was severaly hurt . 

and finally- wtf does it have to do with his stance on sasuke's revenge.

3."Sasuke fought Naruto out of anger.."

oh and since kakashi is omnipotent and  he knew it ? only sakura heard the discourse between the boys so this point of yours ends before its started

and when does fighting being motivated by anger (after just awakening from your deathbed btw) is suffiecient to negate the purpose of someone's lifes -especially sasuke’s for which he was ready to sell his soul and body-to get some semblence of justice for his family, remember  lee attacked sasuke brutally for no reason but to “prove himself” , insulted his clan and even when he had an upper hand in match he was about to use a forbidden technique just to hurt sasuke more .-even when lee is reprimended by gai, gai doesnt negate his life’s purpose - for which lee worked so hard , and even in their battle before sasuke CHALLENGED naruto, he didnt attack him , he only bellitles him (as a cope ,after he is traumatised by his brother for a whole day, humiliated  and almost killed) it is naruto who ACCEPTS the challenge and gets petty never minding the condition of sasuke, it is NARUTO who get ready to pull a rasengan on his “best” friend despite his “bff”, when sasuke had just woken up( from life threatening coma and mental scarring that 1 complete day of torture can give a 13 year old along with being beaten and humiliated )   , naruto getting all riled up -although mind you he first hand witnessed what happened to sasuke , he heard sasuke's screams and the brothers' "interaction" firsthand , neither sakura nor kakashi saw it firsthand , he gets all riled up as his friend just woke from coma like the hyper insecure twat he is -although he couldve refused ? if he possessed any sympathy or empathy for the boy that is even a 13 year old and no one, for a boy he claimed to be his "friend". neither jiraiya nor kakashi reprimands him but anyways ,

4.sasuke pulled a chidori? so , like i said before naruto pulled out his strongest move first what do you expect  sasuke to do ?  beg him to draw out the rasengan ? it is only not only fair for him to have used chidori but actually very obvious, never minding the rasengan was more POTENT than the chidori he used and wouldve hurt HIM regardless. reiterating it again naruto would have severely hurt hurt his friend when his friend is unwell, was brutally tortured and beaten in front of him and just woke up from a coma form which his death was almost certain, just because he is an insecure twat.

so much for love and friendship

#anti sns #anti sasunarusasu #anti kakashi #pro sasuke #pro sasuke uchiha #naruto analysis

[y0rushikas]

sns stans how about yall stay the fuck away from the sasusaku tag with your sns bs like.... why tag ss in the first place when you're just gonna talk about sns 💀

(also funny that you never tag nh but have ss in the tags like....? tage ur clout chasing bullshit somewhere else pls)

#sasusaku #anti sns #anti sasunaru #anti sasunarusasu

[pussymagnetmadara]

Sasuke true fans, read this please and tell me when I’m wrong

Nobody deserves Sasuke, no indeed. First of all, certainly not Sakura Haruno. Sakura never understood who Sasuke was, how he felt or what his goals were. In fact, she doesn't care at all. She always perceived him as the dude she fell in love with because you know he's Sasuke the cool guy in school, even years later. She doesn't deserve him because she always fought to get him back, to get him and get his favor, so that he could realize that she helped save him. How could she claim to save him from his torment when she never understood why he was so tormented. Of course she is aware of the genocide of the Uchiha clan and that Itachi was responsible for it but she just tells herself that he should never have let himself be consumed by revenge and hatred when she never had a say in the beginning. She finally got what she wanted out of him because she forced a victim of emotional abuse to marry her and giving him a child. Someone with such psychological distress that the dude doesn't even know who he is or why he did all this anymore. His brain pauses to save what's left of his mental state, he's unresponsive to anything, he's totally on autopilot. "I will say whatever my friends and Sakura want to hear if it makes them happy, I have to fix my mistakes." But what mistakes are you talking about Sasuke Uchiha? You haven't done anything wrong. You can't have anything to apologize for when you were the victim in the first place. If Sasuke's travels had been concrete with his state of mind, it's certainly not a redemption arc I would have liked to get but a mental health recovery arc. Secondly, Naruto Uzumaki. No Naruto does not deserve Sasuke and does not deserve his friendship and interest. When I hear that Naruto and Sasuke make so much sense together whether it be friendly or romantic, I say no. I sincerely think that Sasuke gave Naruto enough chances to be a real friend but Naruto never took that chance. Chasing him back to a village that ordered his brother to slaughter their whole family was never a good idea, but I could have left that out during Shippuden, if Naruto had used his brain after the 4th great war, but he didn't. So you bring back the victim of a nation that wasted his life to the very place where all the ghosts of his past are still present. Sasuke was not yet healed, Naruto gave the final blow to Sasuke's mental health. Why did Sasuke want to leave Konoha in your opinion Naruto Uzumaki? Yes because the village still sees him as the deserter and nobody in this damn village is able to reason and try to understand his gesture but also where do you want Sasuke to go in Konoha? The Uchiha district having been totally dismantled and razed, there remains only a small piece of rope to delimit the former territorial zone that had been granted to them and it is not really reasonable to let someone with such a trauma as Sasuke return to the scene of the crime that made his life collapse. . it's like if you bring a kidnapping victim back to the dark and wet basement where they remained locked up for a long time and let them fight their trauma by themselves, you would find it stupid and inhuman, well in Sasuke's case it's the same.

Then I was expecting an arc of reparation and justice for the real victims like Neji Huyga and Sasuke Uchiha from Naruto as the newly nominated hokage, but no, still nothing. Neji still hasn't got justice and neither has Sasuke while all this time Naruto was strutting around with Sasuke whispering in his ears: "don't worry, you will always be my friend…" What friendship are you talking about Naruto? The one where you don't even give your friend the right to officially break away from Konoha? To let him heal his wounds in another way? To let him live his life as he wants? So yes, you saved him from the death penalty but condemned him to a life of slavery as a watchdog of a state that never loved him and was never there for him simply because you, you are far too good to forgive all the people who hurt you, so even Sasuke should do the same. You do not love Sasuke.

So you offer the means to make up for his so-called mistakes by working in your shadow on behalf of Konoha and doing the dirty work for you while you sign piles of papers for hours on end in your sinister office in which hangs pictures of horrible people who have done nothing interesting with their position as hokage but stir up the hatred that eventually caused the genocide of your best friend's clan. You are just proud to finally be in the place that you have so desired to get all these years because of your lack of validation from others and your parents who died in fighting too soon and from whom you suffered a good part of your youth and from whom you are retracing the same path for your son who hates you because you are not there to raise him and his little sister.

So you get Sasuke to be your watchdog, and you continue to treat your so-called best friend, your soul mate as a common pet who should be happy with his lot. You put your friend Shikamaru as your main advisor but let Sasuke put his hands in the shit for you again.

Sasuke lost the hope to smile again, you don't allow him any decision and not even on his own life, and for all this, I deeply resent you.

Thirdly, Kakashi Hatake, for our friend Kakashi, Sasuke was his favorite student but as his friend Hiruzen Sarutobi once said to him, "We are always disappointed in our favorite student when they turn against us one day." Yes Orochimaru turned against you when you never understood him and called him weird and kicked him out of Konoha for his extravagant research while it doesn't seem to me that Tobirama Senju was then banished after inventing the edo-tensei jutsu which is literally fucking necromancy, a jutsu so horrible to practice that it requires in the first place a human sacrifice in order to bring back the soul of a dead person in the world of the living, deprived of its own will and its free will. .. Kakashi once thought he was close to Sasuke because he too had gone through the loss of people close to him, but need I remind you how Kakashi Hatake got over his depression? By stifling his emotions continuously and by murdering multiple shinobi. So he explicitly asked his favorite student who was in such an emotional distress that he was on the verge of internal implosion, to shut the fuck up and continue to live his life as a ninja and that losing people is part of life… he really dared to mean that to a 12 year old. I personally blame Kakashi but I try to make up for my pain by meaning that Kakashi himself being traumatized to the core has also lost all his cognitive faculties in terms of emotion and compassion. He turned himself off and also put himself in auto-pilot.

Fourth, Itachi Uchiha and Fugaku Uchiha. Besides his mother Mikoto, Sasuke only had eyes for his older brother and their father who they thought were just great. It's true, both of them were great and strong shinobi who far exceeded the abilities of the other clan members with a few exceptions. However, Fugaku in the first place should never have exposed Sasuke to a constant competition with his older brother. Fugaku in his great wisdom and experience should never have pitted his younger son against his brother to outgrow him, as he your sons are different, with different personalities and possibly different ambitions and mentally abusing them to force them to suit you is really twisted. To have tried to make Itachi the ultimate ninja that he never had the stature to be even while being the leader of the Uchiha clan and then to have your youngest son do everything to not end up like Itachi who then proved to be your biggest disappointment but in any case, outgrow him. In the sense that he had two chances to succeed, if one of them failed, the other one would inevitably succeed. And in another sense, where Hinata wouldn't go over Naruto's decisions as a good submissive wife, Mikoto never did anything to end it all and allow her older son to destroy himself. What kind of example was Sasuke supposed to draw from that? To be a good dog who is given orders and must obey without restriction? Yeah, Fugaku's twisted advices to Itachi caused Itachi's reaction to be stuck between his clan and his will to be a good ninja of Konoha? In the end, many blame Itachi for the massacre of the Uchiha clan, but when you receive so much pressure from one side or the other you end up inexorably imposing from the inside, and you end up making bad decisions and bullshit. When your daddy, instead of preserving you, shows you what a war looks like at the age of 4, how do you think you will end up? I sincerely regret that Itachi didn't succeed in his suicide, he would have been free of all that because yes he is as traumatized as his little brother, this trauma has disrupted everything in his brain, so much so that he finds it normal to traumatize his little brother in order to harden him, as if being a good ninja had to get over the trauma and the destruction of the mind and that he got from dad BUT even if he was considered as a genius, he never thought with his fucking brain. Like dude, WHY ARE YOU SUCH A FREAKING BOOTLICKER OF A GOUVERNMENT THAT ASKED YOU TO KILL YOUR ENTIRE FUCKING OWN FAMILY? Hello wake up! Fuck you.

Finally, Sasuke never had a real good example either in his education or in other areas. How can you blame a boy for being so called cold and insensitive when he never had a good example of affection except living in trauma, servitude of others and dishonor.

Sasuke didn't have Jiraya to replace the father figure that was so lacking in him. Sasuke didn't have the S/O who understood and admired him at last, not for his looks, nor for his famous family name but for who he really is. No, he has always been lonely, enslaved, and misunderstood.

Fortunately some of us in this rotten fandom really love Sasuke and give him all the love he deserves.

I love you Sasuke Uchiha. You'll always be my king.

PS: Please excuse my multiple grammatical errors, I wrote this very quickly and English is not my first language.

#Sasuke uchiha #anti sasusaku #anti sns #anti sasunarusasu #anti naruto #anti sakura #anti kakashi #anti itachi #anti konoha #anti naruto ending #pro Sasuke uchiha

[naruto-shipping-confessions]

#Anti NaruSaku #Anti SasuNaruSasu #Anti NaruHina #Anti SasuSaku #Anti SasuNaru #Anti NaruSasu

[moonandblossoms]

People say that violence has no gender.

Yet people think it's not okay if a guy hits a girl but okay if a guy hits a guy. This is just a stupid claim to prove your ship now.

#sasusaku #anti sasunaru #sasuke uchiha #sakura haruno #naruto uzumaki #anti sns #anti narusasu #anti sasunarusasu

[leportraitducadavre]

I don't know if you've written about it already, and if so you can just redirect me if you'd like, but there's obviously a lot of gay undertones to Naruto and Sasuke's relationship, and all the suggestive illustrations. How much of it do you think was consciously intentional by Kishimoto?

I'm sorry but what "clear undertones" are you referring to? Why does the friendship between two males have to be represented in a particular (usually Westernized) way so that it's not confused with romantic interest? It's prototyping homosexual romantic relationships so that they are labeled within a standard that the reader identifies them with.

It's perfectly fine to ship SNS if that's the desire of those who consume the manga, but to justify that choice on the premise that "Kishimoto planned it because there are clear indications of what I consider a homosexual romantic relationship to be" is dangerous (encapsulating homosexual relationships inside one specific dynamic diminishes the relevance of romantic LGTB+ bonds that do not develop on the same premise), and fetishizes same-gender relationships.

Kishimoto wrote similarly premised relationships throughout the manga, highlighting the relevance of having a "rivalry" between two people within shinobi culture, in that sense, Sasuke and Naruto are no different from other characters.

At the same time, this idea of a "romance clearly planned by the author" usually also hides the shipper's ideology that romantic love is intrinsically superior to any other kind, nullifying the relevance of other bonds that do not fall into this category. Sasuke is constantly relying on his love for his family to carry on throughout the manga, yet that bond is diminished by many SNS fans in order to give more relevance to his bond with Naruto. His friendship with the main character is also of incredible importance, yet somehow Sasuke considering Naruto his best friend isn't as relevant as him seeing him as a romantic partner, as that kind of bond is, to them, superior.

There is a huge market for queer products to enjoy within Japanese media and that is a much better place to explore such dynamics, as they are specifically designed to address such a demand. Seeking queer representation within products aimed at a largely cis-male, heteronormative audience encapsulates LGBT+ relationships under toxic and/or heteronormative codes and behaviors by stripping them of their self-identity and fetishizing their interactions in the process (here).

Furthermore, I've seen people questioning Kishimoto's own sexuality because "he's clearly a closeted gay as he wrote SNS" which destroys their whole stance as "LGTB+ supporters" because not only did they decide to publicly question the sexuality and "out" an author based on his fictional work, but also decided to lock same-gender relationships into a single dynamism, where the idea of "romance" is encapsulated in a largely antagonistic relationship with obsessive undertones. We call that "toxic" when it's a heterosexual relationship, so why wouldn't it be for a homosexual couple?

What exactly is different about that dynamic that allows an LGBT+ couple to explore the kind of bond that we consider toxic and unbalanced within a heterosexual relationship? Usually, many of these issues fall back on an internalized misogyny where, because women are usually inferior both physically and mentally to men, they cannot develop this kind of union in the same way that men can. The relationship remains equally toxic and dangerous for both parties, but because they now don't find a concrete visualization of this imbalance (because, again, they perceive women as inherently inferior to men), they do not regard it in this way.

As I've said, shipping SNS it's alright, I personally can't see any romantic dynamic to get behind in the manga (which is, again, a personal preference of mine as I don't think Kishimoto cared much for those types of bonds), finding queer subtext in media is a common practice and was born out of the need for representation of a minority within a highly repressive society; but to see it as the only valid reading of a product and justify the lack of canonization of the couple under the premise of "social homophobia" within a community that the shipper usually does not know anything about (such as Japan) is a dangerous and senseless practice. Even more so considering the well-known and mainstream Japanese Yaoi market that exists and could use more support.

I'm sorry, I don't want to be rude to you in any manner, but your ask allowed me to explore a difficult and important topic that I tried to address very carefully because I think that people got completely desensitized with and, in their attempt to become a "supporter", they fetishized LGTB+ relationships.

#anti sns #anti sasunarusasu #anti sns fandom #anti shipping #western visualization of queer relationships #feminism #misoginy #lgbtq

[madara-fate]

funny how that sns shipper gave you evidence of naruto’s romantic feelings with manga panels and you still didn’t answer because you have NO comeback

Really? So you clearly stalk my blog and yet you still think that I say things without being able to back them up? Anon, I explicitly told that person why I literally couldn't respond to them, and I then asked them very clearly to reformat their reply so that I could respond, but they haven't done so. But since you're anonymously claiming that I didn't respond because I apparently had no response...

Here's a big proverbial middle finger to you.

They tried to use the similar words that Naruto and Hinata used towards Sasuke and Naruto respectively, in order to infer that there were definitely romantic feelings on Naruto's side towards Sasuke, just because there were romantic feelings on Hinata's side towards Naruto. They used the below panels to help illustrate their point:

Here's the problem with that though, and it links in with the definition of a romantic moment that I gave to them, which they tried to use, but it backfired, because it only proved my point:

A romantic moment, is when the romantic feelings of at least one party of the relationship is brought to the forefront and made into a key aspect of the scene, which also usually includes a measure of affection displayed, I can list several SS scenes which fit that description, and none for SNS, because they don't exist.

For it to be a romantic moment, the romantic feelings of at least one party either had to have already been established, or confirmed during the scene. If Hinata's romantic feelings hadn't already been established, and she didn't end her speech with her explicitly confessing, then no, it wouldn't have been a romantic moment. What made the moment romantic, is because the reader was already aware of the romantic feelings Hinata had for Naruto. Therefore, even if she hadn't directly said "I love you" at the end, it still would have been a romantic moment, because her romantic feelings had already been confirmed and established as part of their dynamic.

They tried doing the same thing here using the below panels, but this argument obviously suffers from the same problems.

Firstly, that person said "the things that Kakashi says about Sakura are actually about Naruto", but that's not true at all. Kakashi was very clearly referring to Sakura there, and what he was saying about Sakura was the truth:

Just because those things may also apply to Naruto does not mean that Kakashi was actually referring to Naruto. You can't just forcibly change who a character was referencing in order to suit your agenda.

Secondly, that person actually claimed how Naruto and Sasuke were apparently trying to explain what they mean to each other "in a homophobic society", and can you not see how fucking desperate that is? They're claiming that the Naruto universe is homophobic, but where the hell are they getting that from? Where was it ever even slightly indicated that their universe is homophobic? They made a similar comment earlier regarding how Naruto and Sasuke were "forced" to marry women due to "societal pressures", and when I asked them to provide just one example of these apparent societal pressures, they completely ignored me. Why? Because they couldn't say shit about it, because they completely pulled that out of their ass. But do you give them shit about that? No of course you don't. But when I actually give a legitimate reason for me not being able to respond to them, and even give them the opportunity to fix their formatting so that I can respond, you choose to have a go at me and claim that I had nothing to say, typical.

I'm going off on a tangent now, so let me bring it back to my original point - If no romantic feelings or dynamic had been established between two people, then their words can't automatically be taken as romantic just because they were similar to someone else's words which were said in a romantic context, and the dynamic of their relationship had already been established as being romantic.

Again, I had made this point many times to this person but they always ignored it - context matters. So allow me to reiterate the below point that I had made to them multiple times, which they also conveniently ignored multiple times (which you once again, let them off the hook for, funny that):

It is the feelings, incentives and context behind the actions which dictate the romantic undertones, not the actions themselves. Two platonic best friends could be hugging in one scene, while two lovers were hugging in another scene, and the hug from the second scene would be romantic while the hug from the first scene wouldn’t be, despite the actions from both scenes being exactly the same.”

And that can directly be used to refute their entire argument of how just because Naruto used similar words, it must mean that similar romantic feelings were involved - That's not true, because the context and dynamics of their relationships couldn't have been more different. Just like the example I used above regarding how the same action of a hug can be romantic or platonic depending on the context and dynamics of the relationship involved, the same can be said for words and phrases.

I'll give you another example - Someone can say they chased after their idol (for the context of achieving their dream), and it would be completely platonic because that's the nature of their established relationship. However, if someone says the same thing to the object of their romantic affection, then that clearly has different connotations and has obvious romantic undertones, because the reader is fully aware of that person's explicitly romantic feelings.

Naruto and Sasuke had no such feelings, no such dynamic, no such context. So therefore, Naruto's words were not romantic because they lacked the required feelings, context, dynamic and incentives.

Oh, and there's also obviously this:

I still can't believe that people will take a scene of two boys literally gagging because they were so disgusted after having accidentally kissed, and try to spin that as a romantic scene and claim that they are gay for each other, while blaming the non-existent homophobic society. Seriously, SNS extremists are truly something else to be able to think they're in any position to be calling other people delusional.

#Naruto Uzumaki #Sasuke Uchiha #anti sasunarusasu #Sakura Haruno #Hinata Hyuga

[slowlysointernet]

People rightfully criticize the SasuSaku stan’s for their delusions, taking moments out of context, fanon instead of canon etc but the SNS fandom is just the carbon copy of them if not worse.

#Naruto #Naruto Fandom #Anti SasuSaku #Anti ss #Anti SasuNaruSasu #Anti sns #Anti NarutoFandom #SorryNotSorry

[watermelonsloth]

It’s Your Turn SNS

It’s been a while since I first talked about making this post and if I’m being honest, it’s because I couldn’t think of what I could say. For a while, I thought I was gonna have to throw in the towel and say I only don’t ship SNS because I choose not to ship it. But I also know that I don’t tend to simply “choose” not to ship something, at least not without reason. Especially since I shipped it in the past and had no reason to suddenly stop (it’s not like I stepped away from the series). So, I kept thinking about it until I’ve come to a conclusion:

SNS may not have anything I consider major issues, but it does have a lot of small problems that add up quickly.

Bring in the bullet list.

It’s very clear that they're meant to have a brotherly bond. I know this is beating a dead horse so I’ll keep this quick. They argue and compete like siblings, Naruto refers to Sasuke as his brother like he refers to Iruka like a father, they are reincarnations of brothers, and they are literally based on siblings. Reader interpretation is more important than authorial intent, but this is rather big elephant in the room for me. Especially since it’s easy to see their relationship as purely familial (easier than seeing it as romantic in many cases).

They have vastly different perspectives. Yes, the story is about them finding understanding, but that also means that most of their interactions show off all the ways they don’t understand each other. They may have both been lonely growing up, but they were lonely in very different ways. Naruto never had a family and was ostracized for no reason, Sasuke watched everything get taken away from him and self isolated. Sasuke had a point during VotE1 and the Pain arc doesn’t nullify their differences. Of course you can get with someone without having identical childhoods, I’m just bringing this up because it’s relevant to them having clashing views of the world. They both want to do good, but they believe in different ways of going about it. It’s not just that they look at the world differently, it’s that they’ve come to different conclusions about how the world works. While this can be a positive, it more often than not causes fights between them in canon and I don’t have enough evidence to believe it wouldn’t cause just as many fights in fanon.

Their fandom can be so annoying. This isn’t actually a point against the ship itself and it’s not fair to hold the fandom against it. But I'm only human and this happens to play a role. I’ve already talked a little about why I don’t like this particular branch of the fandom and I have too many more reasons to reasonably add here, so I’m gonna end this here.

It perpetuates the idea that male relationships can’t be affectionate. Again, this isn’t the ships fault but it plays a role in my opinion so I’m mentioning it. I promise to keep it brief. There’s this idea, at least in the west, that only relationships between two girls can simultaneously be affectionate and platonic. Any relationship that has a boy involved (boy-girl, boy-boy) can’t be because people insist that there has to be some romantic/sexual edge. Insisting that Naruto and Sasuke’s relationship has to be romantic/sexual just adds to this.

They share almost no meaningful conversation. I am a crackshipper so canon isn’t everything to me, but it’s not like I’m burning canon either. I still use it as a reference for characterization and dynamics between characters. Canon makes me question how good of friends these two are and tells me that they can’t work through conflict without throwing hands. They have two canonical, meaningful conversations and they only had one of them because they were too tired to start fighting again. This also isn’t because they as characters struggle to be civil. Naruto and Sasuke have plenty of nonviolent interactions with members of Konoha (+sand siblings) and team Taka respectively. Their relationship is more based on actions than words (which is fine), but can’t they at least share some more words? At times it gives off the impression that they don’t like talking to each other. This is in part due to the genre and Kishimoto skipping over team 7 bonding so I can let this slide, but I’m not gonna forget this.

Their dynamic is more symbolism than substance. This is an add on to my last point, but it’s different enough to separate. When you pull back and ask “what is the relationship between Naruto and Sasuke?”, there’s a slight trend in their relationship having more thematic and symbolic importance than character to character importance. Now, I’m not gonna pretend I don’t like when ships have a lot of symbolic meaning behind them, but I see that symbolism more like sprinkles. Sprinkles are nice to have on the cake and they certainly make it easier to sell the cake, but they aren’t a replacement for the cake. Sometimes when I’ve had a bad day I’ll take a handful of sprinkles, but I prefer a more cake to sprinkle ratio any other time. Granted, this might be due to me not having watched/read Naruto in a while, so maybe I’m forgetting some interactions or some details from certain interactions.

Naruto didn’t actually “save” Sasuke. I’m gonna say something controversial: Naruto and Sakura didn’t save Sasuke, he saved himself. Naruto and Sakura first set off to save Sasuke from Orochimaru, but he left Orochimaru himself. Then they wanted to help him against Itachi (their intentions were actually a little unclear), but Sasuke took out Itachi alone (with a little help from team hebi). Then Sakura went off to kill Sasuke to help Naruto and Naruto wanted to keep the Raikage from having Sasuke killed (though he was more interested in understanding Sasuke at this time), and both failed. Sasuke pulled himself out of his mental crisis and left Obito/Zetsu’s influence, Sasuke took steps to understand his brother, Sasuke asked the Hokage about the village (with the help of taka), Sasuke chose to help the Allies Shinobi Force against Madara/Obito/Kaguya, and Sasuke went on a redemption quest to better understand himself and the world. Naruto wasn’t irrelevant to Sasuke’s journey, but how much did he really help Sasuke? Naruto and Sasuke do influence each other, but it’s almost always passive rather than an active effort to help the other (at least in regards to the times they do have a positive influence on the other).

I’m not certain they could help each other with their problems. Moving outside of canon and into fanon, the question becomes “how could Naruto and Sasuke help each other grow?” The answer is: I’m not sure, actually. According to my interpretations of the characters, these are their greatest remaining flaws as of the end of the narrative: Naruto struggles with prioritizing (this includes prioritizing his perspective over others, the few over the many, and others over himself to the point of detriment) and Sasuke still needs to find a sense of peace. While it’s not impossible that they could help each other, I’m gonna press x to doubt. Sasuke isn’t the best at prioritizing either, but, more importantly, because of his different perspective, his solution would probably involve Naruto changing his values. Naruto doesn’t need his values to change, he needs to figure out what he wants and what’s most important to him. Also, Naruto is a good person to go to to make you question your life, but I don’t think he’d be the best at helping anyone find peace, especially someone as different as Sasuke. Yes, Naruto and Sasuke are capable of improving on their own (if they’re given a push in the right direction because neither are all that introspective), but is it so bad that I’d prefer them being in a relationship that helps them improve if they’re in a relationship at all?

So, yeah.

I’m sure I could come up with an additional point here or there, but those would probably edge even further into personal taste (I say as if this isn’t all according to my interpretation and opinion). In conclusion, the ship is fine, I guess, but it isn’t my cup of tea. It just has too many points going against it for me.

#holy hell #when was the last time I did a long post like this #naruto #naruto shippuden #anti sns #anti sasunarusasu #anti sasunaru #anti narusasu #the long awaited (not really) post is here #naruto uzumaki #sasuke uchiha #my stooff #shipping analysis

[kcuf-ad]

I am gonna say this once and for all.

If ANY of you reblog my Sasuke posts, BUT ship SNS, get out. Get the hell out!!

#anti sns #anti sasunaru #anti sasunarusasu #anti narusasu #anti naruto x sasuke #anti sasuke x naruto #sns shippers dni #dni sns shippers #sns shippers do not interact

[ilbenmalpensanteus]

I can’t.

Sas talking with neutral pronouns about the general shitty situation, hinting that without Naruto they can’t win

Naruto using the first person like: “fuck the world, without you I am lost, teme”

Aaaaah this boy is so in love

#anti naruto ending #narutolovessasuke #sasunarusasu #narusasunaru #sasunaru #narusasu #nsn #sns #naruto x sasuke #sasuke x naruto