#Ancient Thrace

[memories-of-ancients]

Funerary mask of a Thracian ruler, uncovered from the Kazanlak Valley in what is now Bulgaria, 5th century BC

from the National Archaeological Museum, Sofia

#history #antiquities #ancient history #art #ancient art #ancient thrace

[jeannereames]

Hi Dr Reames!

Would you say that Macedon shared the same "political culture" with its Thracian and Illyrian neighbours, like how most Greeks shared the polis structure and the concept of citizenship?

I don't really know anything about Macedonian history before Philip II's time, but you've often brought up how the Macedonians shared some elements of elite culture (e.g. mound burials) with their Thracian neighbours, as well religious beliefs and practices.

I've only ever heard these people generically described as "a collection of tribes (that confederated into a kingdom)", which also seems to be the common description for nearby "Greek" polities like Thessaly and Epiros. So did these societies have a lot in common, structurally speaking, with Macedon? Or were they just completely different types of polities altogether?

First, in the interest of some good bibliography on the Thracians:

Z. H. Archibald, The Odrysian Kingdom of Thrace. Orpheus Unmasked. Oxford UP, 1998. (Too expensive outside libraries, but highly recommended if you can get it by interlibrary loan. Part of the exorbitant cost [almost $400, but used for less] owes to images, as it’s archaeology heavy. Archibald is also an expert on trade and economy in north Greece and the Black Sea region, and has edited several collections on the topic.

Alexander Fol, Valeria Fol. Thracians. Coronet Books, 2005. Also expensive, if not as bad, and meant for the general public. Fol’s 1977 Thrace and the Thracians, with Ivan Marazov, was a classic. Fol and Marazov are fathers of modern Thracian studies.

R. F. Hodinott, The Thracians. Thames and Hudson, 1981. Somewhat dated now but has pictures and can be found used for a decent price if you search around. But, yeah…dated.

For Illyria, John Wilkes’ The Illyrians, Wiley-Blackwell, 1996, is a good place to start, but there’s even less about them in book form (or articles).

—————

Now, to the question.

BOTH the Thracians and Illyrians were made up of politically independent tribes bound by language and religion who, sometimes, also united behind a strong ruler (the Odrysians in Thrace for several generations, and Bardylis briefly in Illyria). One can probably make parallels to Germanic tribes, but it’s easier for me to point to American indigenous nations. The Odrysians might be compared to the Iroquois federation. The Illyrians to the Great Lakes people, united for a while behind Tecumseh, but not entirely, and disunified again after. These aren’t perfect, but you get the idea. For that matter, the Greeks themselves weren’t a nation, but a group of poleis bonded by language, culture, and religion. They fought as often as they cooperated. The Persian invasion forced cooperation, which then dissolved into the Peloponnesian War.

Beyond linguistic and religious parallels, sometimes we also have GEOGRAPHIC ones. So, let me divide the north into lowlands and highlands. It’s much more visible on the ground than from a map, but Epiros, Upper Macedonia, and Illyria are all more alike, landscape-wise, than Lower Macedonia and the Thracian valleys. South of all that, and different yet again, lay Thessaly, like a bridge between Southern Greece and these northern regions.

If language (and religion) are markers of shared culture, culture can also be shaped by ethnically distinct neighbors. Thracians and Macedonians weren’t ethnically related, yet certainly shared cultural features. Without falling into colonialist geographical/environmental determinism, geography does affect how early cultures develop because of what resources are available, difficulties of travel, weather, lay of the land itself, etc.

For instance, the Pindus Range, while not especially high, is rocky and made a formidable barrier to easy east-west travel. Until recently, sailing was always more efficient in Greece than travel by land (especially over mountain ranges).* Ergo, city-states/towns on the western coast tended to be western-facing for trade, and city-states/towns on the eastern side were, predictably, eastern-facing. This is why both Epiros and Ainai (Elimeia) did more trade with Corinth than Athens, and one reason Alexandros of Epiros went west to Italy while Alexander of Macedon looked east to Persia. It’s also why Corinth, Sparta, etc., in the Peloponnese colonized Sicily and S. Italy, while Athens, Euboia, etc., colonized the Asia Minor and Black Sea coasts. (It’s not an absolute, but one certainly sees trends.)

So, looking at their land, we can see why Macedonians and Thracians were both horse people with their wide valleys. They also practiced agriculture, had rich forests for logging, and significant metal (and mineral) deposits—including silver and gold—that made mining a source of wealth. They shared some burial customs but maintained acute differences. Both had lower status for women compared to Illyria/Epiros/Paionia. Yet that’s true only of some Thracian tribes, such as the Odrysians. Others had stronger roles for women. Thracians and Macedonians shared a few deities (The Rider/Zis, Dionysos/Zagreus, Bendis/Artemis/Earth Mother), although Macedonian religion maintained a Greek cast. We also shouldn’t underestimate the impact of Greek colonies along the Black Sea coast on inland Thrace, especially the Odrysians. Many an Athenian or Milesian (et al.) explorer/merchant/colonist married into the local Thracian elite.

Let’s look at burial customs, how they’re alike and different, for a concrete example of this shared regional culture.

First, while both Thracians and Macedonians had shrines, neither had temples on the Greek model until late, and then largely in Macedonia. Their money went into the ground with burials.

Temples represent a shit-ton of city/community money plowed into a building for public use/display. In southern Greece, they rise (pun intended) at the end of the Archaic Age as city-state sumptuary laws sought to eliminate personal display at funerals, weddings, etc. That never happened in Macedonia/much of the northern areas. So, temples were slow to creep up there until the Hellenistic period. Even then, gargantuan funerals and the Macedonian Tomb remained de rigueur for Macedonian elite. (The date of the arrival of the true Macedonian Tomb is debated, but I side with those who count it as a post-Alexander development.)

A “Macedonian Tomb” (above: Tomb of Judgement, photo mine) is a faux-shrine embedded in the ground. Elite families committed wealth to it in a huge potlatch to honor the dead. Earlier cyst tombs show the same proclivities, but without the accompanying shrine-like architecture. As early as 650 BCE at Archontiko (= ancient Pella), we find absurd amounts of wealth in burials (below: Archontiko burial goods, Pella Museum, photos mine). Same thing at Sindos, and Aigai, in roughly the same period. Also in a few places in Upper Macedonia, in the Archaic Age: Aiani, Achlada, Trebenište, etc.. This is just the tip of the iceberg. If Greece had more money for digs, I think we’d find additional sites.

Vivi Saripanidi has some great articles (conveniently in English) about these finds: “Constructing Necropoleis in the Archaic Period,” “Vases, Funerary Practices, and Political Power in the Macedonian Kingdom During the Classical Period Before the Rise of Philip II,” and “Constructing Continuities with a Heroic Past.” They’re long, but thorough. I recommend them.

What we observe here are “Princely Burials” across lingo-ethnic boundaries that reflect a larger, shared regional culture. But one big difference between elite tombs in Macedonia and Thrace is the presence of a BODY, and whether the tomb was new or repurposed.

In Thrace, at least royal tombs are repurposed shrines (above: diagram and model of repurposed shrine-tombs). Macedonian Tombs were new construction meant to look like a shrine (faux-fronts, etc.). Also, Thracian kings’ bodies weren’t buried in their "tombs." Following the Dionysic/ Orphaic cult, the bodies were cut up into seven pieces and buried in unmarked spots. Ergo, their tombs are cenotaphs (below: Kosmatka Tomb/Tomb of Seuthes III, photos mine).

What they shared was putting absurd amounts of wealth into the ground in the way of grave goods, including some common/shared items such as armor, golden crowns, jewelry for women, etc. All this in place of community-reflective temples, as seen in the South. (Below: grave goods from Seuthes’ Tomb; grave goods from Royal Tomb II at Vergina, for comparison).

So, if some things are shared, others (connected to beliefs about the afterlife) are distinct, such as the repurposed shrine vs. new construction built like a shine, and the presence or absence of a body (below: tomb ceiling décor depicting Thracian deity Zalmoxis).

Aside from graves, we also find differences between highlands and lowlands in the roles of at least elite women. The highlands were tough areas to live, where herding (and raiding) dominated, and what agriculture there was required “all hands on deck” for survival. While that isn’t necessary for women to enjoy higher status (just look at Minoan Crete, Etruria, and even Egypt), it may have contributed to it in these circumstances.

Illyrian women fought. And not just with bows on horseback as Scythian women did. If we can believe Polyaenus, Philip’s daughter Kyanne (daughter of his Illyrian wife Audata) opposed an Illyrian queen on foot with spears—and won. Philip’s mother Eurydike involved herself in politics to keep her sons alive, but perhaps also as a result of cultural assumption: her mother was royal Lynkestian but her father was (perhaps) Illyrian. Epirote Olympias came to Pella expecting a certain amount of political influence that she, apparently, wasn’t given until Philip died. Alexander later observed that his mother had wisely traded places with Kleopatra, his sister, to rule in Epiros, because the Macedonians would never accept rule by a woman (implying the Epirotes would).

I’ve noted before that the political structure in northern Greece was more of a continuum: Thessaly had an oligarchic tetrarchy of four main clans, expunged by Jason in favor of tyranny, then restored by Philip. Epiros was ruled by a council who chose the “king” from the Aiakid clan until Alexandros I, Olympias’s brother, established a real monarchy. Last, we have Macedon, a true monarchy (apparently) from the beginning, but also centered on a clan (Argeads), with agreement/support from the elite Hetairoi class of kingmakers. Upper Macedonian cantons (formerly kingdoms) had similar clan rule, especially Lynkestis, Elimeia, and Orestis. Alas, we don’t know enough to say how absolute their monarchies were before Philip II absorbed them as new Macedonian districts, demoting their basileis (kings/princes) to mere governors.

I think continued highland resistance to that absorption is too often overlooked/minimized in modern histories of Philip’s reign, excepting a few like Ed Anson’s. In Dancing with the Lion: Rise, I touch on the possibility of highland rebellion bubbling up late in Philip’s reign but can’t say more without spoilers for the novel.

In antiquity, Thessaly was always considered Greek, as was (mostly) Epiros. But Macedonia’s Greek bona-fides were not universally accepted, resulting in the tale of Alexandros I’s entry into the Olympics—almost surely a fiction with no historical basis, fed to Herodotos after the Persian Wars. The tale’s goal, however, was to establish the Greekness of the ruling family, not of the Macedonian people, who were still considered barbaroi into the late Classical period. Recent linguistic studies suggest they did, indeed, speak a form of northern Greek, but the fact they were regarded as barbaroi in the ancient world is, I think instructive, even if not necessarily accurate.

It tells us they were different enough to be counted “not Greek” by some southern Greek poleis and politicians such as Demosthenes. Much of that was certainly opportunistic. But not all. The bias suggests Macedonian culture had enough overflow from their northern neighbors to appear sufficiently alien. Few Greek writers suggested the Thessalians or Epirotes weren’t Greek, but nobody argued the Thracians, Paiones, or Illyrians were. Macedonia occupied a liminal status.

We need to stop seeing these areas with hard borders and, instead, recognize permeable boundaries with the expected cultural overflow: out and in. Contra a lot of messaging in the late 1800s and early/mid-1900s, lifted from ancient narratives (and still visible today in ultra-national Greek narratives), the ancient Greeks did not go out to “civilize” their Eastern “Oriental” (and northern barbaroi) neighbors, exporting True Culture and Philosophy. (For more on these views, see my earlier post on “Alexander suffering from Conqueror’s Disease.”)

In fact, Greeks of the Late Iron Age (LIA)/Archaic Age absorbed a great deal of culture and ideas from those very “Oriental barbarians,” such as Lydia and Assyria. In art history, the LIA/Early Archaic Era is referred to as the “Orientalizing Period,” but it’s not just art. Take Greek medicine. It’s essentially Mesopotamian medicine with their religion buffed off. Greek philosophy developed on the islands along the Asia Minor coast, where Greeks regularly interacted with Lydians, Phoenicians, and eventually Persians; and also in Sicily and Southern Italy, where they were talking to Carthaginians and native Italic peoples, including Etruscans. Egypt also had an influence.

Philosophy and other cultural advances didn’t develop in the Greek heartland. The Greek COLONIES were the happenin’ places in the LIA/Archaic Era. Here we find the all-important ebb and flow of ideas with non-Greek peoples.

Artistic styles, foodstuffs, technology, even ideas and myths…all were shared (intentionally or not) via TRADE—especially at important emporia. Among the most significant of these LIA emporia was Methone, a Greek foundation on the Macedonian coast off the Thermaic Gulf (see map below). It provided contact between Phoenician/Euboian-Greek traders and the inland peoples, including what would have been the early Macedonian kingdom. Perhaps it was those very trade contacts that helped the Argeads expand their rule in the lowlands at the expense of Bottiaians, Almopes, Paionians, et al., who they ran out in order to subsume their lands.

My main point is that the northern Greek mainland/southern Balkans were neither isolated nor culturally stunted. Not when you look at all that gold and other fine craftwork coming out of the ground in Archaic burials in the region. We’ve simply got to rethink prior notions of “primitive” peoples and cultures up there—notions based on southern Greek narratives that were both political and culturally hidebound, but that have, for too long, been taken as gospel truth.

Ancient Macedon did not “rise” with Philip II and Alexander the Great. If anything, the 40 years between the murder of Archelaos (399) and the start of Philip’s reign (359/8) represents a 2-3 generation eclipse. Alexandros I, Perdikkas II, and Archelaos were extremely capable kings. Philip represented a return to that savvy rule.

(If you can read German, let me highly recommend Sabine Müller’s, Perdikkas II and Die Argeaden; she also has one on Alexander, but those two talk about earlier periods, and especially her take on Perdikkas shows how clever he was. For those who can’t read German, the Lexicon of Argead Macedonia’s entry on Perdikkas is a boiled-down summary, by Sabine, of the main points in her book.)

Anyway…I got away a bit from Thracian-Macedonian cultural parallels, but I needed to mount my soapbox about the cultural vitality of pre-Philip Macedonia, some of which came from Greek cultural imports, but also from Thrace, Illyria, etc.

Ancient Macedonia was a crossroads. It would continue to be so into Roman imperial, Byzantine, and later periods with the arrival of subsequent populations (Gauls, Romans, Slavs, etc.) into the region.

That fruit salad with Cool Whip, or Jello and marshmallows, or chopped up veggies and mayo, that populate many a family reunion or church potluck spread? One name for it is a “Macedonian Salad”—but not because it’s from Macedonia. It’s called that because it’s made up of many [very different] things. Also, because French macedoine means cut-up vegetables, but the reference to Macedonia as a cultural mishmash is embedded in that.

---------------

* I’ve seen this personally between my first trip to Greece in 1997, and the new modern highway. Instead of winding around mountains, the A2 just blasts through them with tunnels. The A1 (from Thessaloniki to Athens) was there in ’97, and parts of the A2 east, but the new highway west through the Pindus makes a huge difference. It takes less than half the time now to drive from the area around Thessaloniki/Pella out to Ioannina (near ancient Dodona) in Epiros. Having seen the landscape, I can imagine the difficulties of such a trip in antiquity with unpaved roads (albeit perhaps at least graded). Taking carts over those hills would be daunting. See images below.

#asks #ancient Macedonia #ancient Thrace #ancient Epiros #ancient Thessaly #Argead Macedonia #pre-Philip Macedonia #Late Iron Age Greece #Archaic Age Greece #Thracian tombs #Macedonian tombs #Classics #tagamemnon #Alexander the Great #Philip II of Macedon #Philip of Macedon #women in ancient Macedonia #ancient Illyria #women in Illyria #Macedonian-Thracian similarities #religion in ancient Thrace #religion in ancient Macedonia

[gemsofgreece]

Hello! Hope you're having a nice day!

I heard there's a version where the Orphic myth is smart Athenian propaganda to build good relationship with Thracia for the sake of resources and political alliance. What do you think of it?

Thank you!

Hi! To be honest, I haven’t heard of this before. Do you remember any sources about it mayhaps? My understanding is that orphism simply was a result of the interaction of Greeks and Thracians. There are however a lot of differentiations between Thracian and Greek orphism, except some things, such as Orpheus’ death, which remain substantially similar. In fact, I read that the lore and worship of Thracian Orpheus (Zalmoxis) was closer or at least just as close to Iranian religious figures and cults. I mean, it’s just ancient peoples interacting, it is very hard for us to find the edge of the thread.

I believe Greeks settling north were influenced by Orphism which was then Hellenized, as in, given its own Greek lore or adjusted suitably to pre-existing Greek mythology as much as possible in order to not impose any threat to the established religion. Orphic cults weren’t well tolerated by all Greeks and the root reason might have stemmed from that actually.

Ironically, even the Thracian versions of Orpheus’ myths are given to us mostly by Herodotus which means both Greek and Thracian versions are mostly voiced by Greeks and consequently the original Thracian myths might have been even more different. Who knows.

But the hellenisation of Orphism as an attempt to extinguish any potential threat to the main religion in advance seems more likely to me than it being Athenian propaganda to get close to Thrace. To be honest, I don’t think Athens needed to go to such lengths. Besides, around the 5th century when most of Orphic information was getting written down, Greeks and a lot of Athenians had settled for good across Thrace. Athens would just need to influence its own people, not cater to the religious Thracians in particular.

But I am not knowledgeable in this so idk if there are any solid arguments or evidence about it 🤷🏻‍♀️

#greece #orphism #Orpheus #greek mythology #ancient Thrace #Thracian mythology #anon #ask

[musetta3]

Anara is known by many names. ‘Fourth Princess of Rhinn,’ to her people. ‘Ana’ to her friends and family. She’d never thought she would add ‘Princess Consort of Nura’ to her list… and ‘traitor,’ soon after it.

A portrait of Anara, the anti-heroine of my novel, The Brother and the Bowman. Ana’s jewelry is based on medieval Persian artwork. Her tattoos are inspired by ancient Thrace, and represent sacred motifs of hope, faith, perseverance, and new life. 

#Original design #original fiction #original character #character design #anara #brother and the bowman #ancient #Ancient Thrace #my art

[illustratus]

Roman period Head of Apollo

#apollo #ancient rome #art #gods #roman #roman mythology #religion #history #europe #european #thrace #thracian #serdica #serdika #sofia #bulgaria #archaeology #bulgarian #museum #olympian #deity #deities #greek mythology #mythology #olympians

[peonycats]

Ancients Chibis!

from top to bottom, left to right:

Illyria, Iberia (+bby Port), Etruria (more accurately, Tarquinia), Dacia

Thrace, Numidia (more accurately, Masaesyli), Persia/Iran, Gaul

Pontus, Kush, Judea, Ancient Libya

Obligatory disclaimer that Illyria, Iberia, Dacia, Thrace, Gaul, and Ancient Libya had other personifications due to the number of diverse tribes inhabiting these regions they’re just standing in as overall representatives haha

These are just some cute ancients chibis I’ve been working on! If there’s interest, I might turn them into stickers hehe, but for now I’m pretty satisfied with how these designs turned out, and I definitely want to draw them more later!

#hws illyria #hws iberia #hws portugal #aph portugal #hws etruria #hws tarquinia #hws dacia #hws thrace #hws numidia #hws persia #hws iran #hws gaul #hws pontus #hws kush #hws judea #hws ancient libya #hws ancients #hetalia #historically inaccurate hair is historically inaccurate #aph illyria #aph iberia #aph etruria #aph tarquinia #aph dacia #aph thrace #aph numidia #aph persia #aph iran #aph gaul #aph pontus

[ancientorigins]

The elite bodyguard of Alexander the Great is said to have killed a lion with his bare hands and this is how he gained Alexander’s attention. This man was Lysimachus and he eventually had a small empire of his own.

#Lysimachus #Macedonian #Macedon #Macedonia #Alexander the Great #general #Greek #elite bodyguard #The Battle of Hydaspes #thrace #Wars of the Diadochi #Ptolemy I #Cassander #Seleucus #Antigonus #Diadochi #ancient #history #ancient origins

[estbela]

Dacia having pet wolves...well tehnically theyre not pets as much as they are wolves who follow her around and are somewhat omnious(to other people). Also foxes maybe? Idk she deserves all the animals <3

#hetalia #Dacia #Aph #Hws #just talking recreationally #Also i feel like she probably can speak to them and understand them yknow #Maybe so can her brother ( Thrace ) #Hetalia ancients

[aeidemnemosyne]

Thracian Tattoos

"Thracian Woman killing Orpheus" Pistoxenos Painter, circa 470-460 BC. NAMA nr. 15190.

Earlier this year, during an excursion to Greece, I came across this fragmented cup at the National Archaeological Museum in Athens. It bears the image of the murder of Orpheus by a Maenad (or at least a Thracian, more on that later). What piqued my interest, however, was what seemed to be a tattoo of a grazing animal on the right arm, as well as geometric designs on the wrists.

At the time I deemed it a solitary case until I came across the image below.

"Death of Orpheus" Black Fury Painter, circa 400-375 BCE. APMA nr. 02581. Print by K. Reichhold.

Here, the murder is depicted with a much larger group of Maenads/Thracians. Orpheus, his person largely missing, can be identified in the middle with his left hand clinging to the lyre. Additionally, he is the only one in this group lacking body art on the exposed limbs.

The assaulting group bears rocks, knives, and other weapons, while their arms and legs are covered with simple line drawings of animals resembling deer, as well as abstract geometric patterns. To draw comparisons with the upper cup drawing would not be out of the question.

I was hesitant to call them tattoos at first, but an article by C.P. Jones more or less confirms that they were, based on various historical sources. Tattoos (Or stigma from στίζω: to mark. Not to be confused with the English use of the term) for decoration were a rare occurrence in antiquity, but there seems to be an exception for Thrace, where tattoos on women were a sign of esteem.

Recommended reading: Jones, C. P. “Stigma: Tattooing and Branding in Graeco-Roman Antiquity.” The Journal of Roman Studies 77 (1987): 139–55. https://www.jstor.org/stable/300578. (See section VI for the specific case of Thrace). Schildkrout, Enid. “Inscribing the Body.” Annual Review of Anthropology 33 (2004): 319–44. http://www.jstor.org/stable/25064856. (A general overview of tattoos and body art throughout history and in cultures across the world).

#ancient greece #orpheus #thrace #tattoos #studyblr

[sarafangirlart]

They [“the Greeks”] say that the Thracian women plotted Orpheus’ death, because he had persuaded their husbands to follow him in his roamings, but that they did not dare to carry out their plot for fear of their husbands. However, when they had drunk a lot of wine, they did the deed, and from that time it has been the rule for the men to march to battle drunk (Description ofGreece 9.30; trans. Frazer 1898, adapted).

DENIAL IS A RIVER IN EGYPT YOUR HUSBAND IS GAY

#greek mythology #ancient greek mythology #greek pantheon #orpheus and eurydice #orpheus #Thrace

[memories-of-ancients]

Golden pitcher uncovered from the Mogilan Mound near Vratsa, Bulgaria, Thracian, 4th century BC

Housed at the Vratsa Historical Museum

#history #antiquities #art #ancient history #ancient art #ancient thrace

[jeannereames]

Why do people equate the double axe with Hephaistion specifically?

People mistakenly associate the double axe—properly called a labrys (pl. labryes), and pronounced LAB-rus—with Hephaistos. Ergo, it must be a symbol for Hephaistion.

This has all sorts of problems.

First, the labrys is also found in several civilizations adjacent to Greece, including both the bronze-age Minoans as well as the Thracians…who are just north of Macedonia, remember. In Minoan Crete it was only ever associated with FEMALE goddesses, and both the labyrinth of myth as well as Ariadne, “mistress of the labyrinth,” are connected to a female goddess, perhaps the Mistress of the Animals. So, there is some connection to hunting, but it’s primarily viewed as a religious symbol.

In Thrace, it belongs to Zalmoxis, the storm/thunder god. Zalmoxis was, additionally, the patron of the royal Odrysian house, not unlike Zeus as patron of the royal Macedonian house. So, it is a distinctly male (and royal) attribute in Thrace. There were Thracians in Alexander’s army, recall, and Sitalkes was one of ATG’s important generals, a friend to Koenos’s family (apparently). He was almost certainly an Odrysian prince.

If all we pay attention to is the AXE, we can make a far better case that the fellow hunting with Alexander is Sitalkes!

In Greece, the labrys pops up in mythical hunts, as for the Kaladonian Boar, so it can symbolize heroization not unlike showing people hunting or fighting naked. (We’re Big, Tough Heroes! We don’t need no stinkin’ armor!) Sometimes Zeus is shown with it, in place of the lightning bolt.

It is not especially associated with Hephaistos. He does have a double hammer, and I did spot a labrys on one pot in Berlin, but it’s highly specific there to the birth of Athena. One usage does NOT a motif make! Near as I can guess, the popular connection of Hephaistos with a labrys comes from a video game.

Er…

Pragmatically, it’s been theorized that the double-axe was used in hunting to deliver the final blow (coup-de-gras), which is exactly how it appears to be used in that mosaic.

All this explains why naming that figure Hephaistion because he’s holding a labrys is a bunch of hooey. As the Thracians were just north and already shared a goodly number of cultural connections, including some religion, I’m far more inclined to see the double-axe as a reference to Zalmoxis…assuming it references any god and isn’t exactly what it looks like there.

A hunting weapon.

#asks #Labrys #Hephaistion #stag mosaic from Pella #Hephaestion #Hephaistos #Zalmoxis #ancient Thrace #ancient Macedonia #Sitalkes #Classics #tagamemnon #ancient art history

[theparadiseproject]

Marston did not "white wash" Ancient Greek culture. It's just a prominent part of western culture.

Also no one alive now, nor in the 40s when she was created, was from Ancient Greece or had some cultural claim to Ancient Greek culture or the religion to genuinely claim it's offensive or anything akin to "appropriation" or reductive to a still alive group of people since its called "Ancient Greece" for a reason.

You shouldn't be applying modern sociological phenomenons or terms to describe people talking about or using any part of a long dead society or the practices or beliefs of the people that were apart of it a very long time ago and was one of the most powerful, dominant and influential cornerstones to Western Society the same way you would a marginalized community of people that still exist in modern day. This is just silly.

The Amazons in DC were not meant to be historically accurate or anything like that. They were purposefully used and reinterpreted to build the mythology of a superhero in pulp fiction to represent a very specific idea. They were not meant to look like any racial group other than ones that would relate specifically to the American audience they were created for. They were not meant to be warriors but super powered beings. They did not use sword and shields but advanced technology and science. Their worship was specifically crafted around certain themes and ideas that were specific to Marston and his interests.

Theres nothing wrong with any of these things and he clearly took a very inspired, well thoughtout approach to ensure he made his version of the Amazons specific to what he was intending to portray while still being written faithfully and in line with the myths that inspired them.

It doesn't even make sense to say they aren't faithful to the source material because they are not characters created in a previous literary work but mythological figures that were used as inspiration for a pulp fiction super hero adventure comic. You choosing to be offended over something you can't possibly have any legitimate claim to anymore than anyone else raised in Western society or somewhere heavily touched by it is you purposefully misapplying ideas, concepts, dynamics that apply to real living things to something that would not even make sense given that the people that would even need to be around for to claim such offenses don't exist and would not do so since they were not marginalized groups of people that had their culture torn from them but a vast collection of some of the most influential and powerful forces in history that were able to spread their culture so far that it impacted all of the world, specifically the West, where people with a specific phenotype you are trying to claim is being used to "erase" people would also have this culture be foundational to the world around them and have as much claim as anyone that is presumably more phenotypically close to the supposed people that cultivated this culture despite the fact that the existing inhabitants of part of the world practice a completely different culture and religion due to their ancestors converting to Christianity and this religion and anyone that could trace their practices and beliefs back to the ancient culture they hail from having passed away without keeping it alive. So the only people that still worship or practice are re constructionist and later practitioners that are not related to those Ancient Greeks at all.

This is what I mean when I say the "Wonder Woman fandom" misapplies modern sociological ideas and politics to make an issue that simply does not exist.

Paradise island was likely in the Pacific Ocean, no where near Europe or Eurasia or the Mediterranean. Diana was modeled after an Irish woman with white skin, blue eyes, and black hair. The Amazons were meant to have the racial phenotypes common to Americans, obviously white Americans, of that time and not any sort of supposedly resemblance to what Academics say the "real amazons" would have looked like or were modeled after. It is fantasy to appeal to an American audience and that is not a bad thing at all.

Even when understanding the underlying beliefs and desires behind the Amazons meaning to appeal to an American audience so they were all very clearly white women there is no such thing as "white washing" the Amazons or anything like that. Frankly, there should be more concern with diversifying the Amazons to include more racial groups that are prominent in the US, like black people, as opposed to trying to perfectly emulate the characteristics of a fictional group of women that these Amazons were not meant to represent or look or be like in the first place.

Its just trying to ruin the character under the guise of "realism" or "historical accuracy" when the whole point is that they are neither of those things and trying to make them that flies in the face of their creation.

#wonder woman #william moulton marston #Diana Prince #dc comics #dc #comics #comic book #ancient greece #amazons #the amazons #thrace #Greek Mythology #racism #sociology #appropriation #white wash #white washing

[musetta3]

Water, Fire and Space for elemental writer asks? ❄️🤍 I hope you are doing well + having a beautiful day.

Hi, Mina! Thank you for the ask, friend! I'll answer for my novel, Brother and the Bowman, whose setting is based on Ancient Persia, Scythia, and Thrace.

Water: How did you start writing?

I started writing when I was about 10-12 years old, actually! I had wanted to write down the adventures of my favorite stuffed animal, Kiki the Kitten. The notebook contained character profiles for all of Kiki's friends, illustrations, a map of Kiki's backyard, and some stories.

I first took a crack at writing a novel at 16, a historical fiction piece about Ancient Rome during the reign of Emperor Nero. Nero's cousin, Marcus, must flee the country when the Praetorian Guard pull a coup. It's very much a court intrigue-romance-political thriller sort of tale. I'd like to revise it and publish one day <3

Fire: What’s a scene that you are dying to write?

I'm nowhere near the scene yet in my draft, but I'm really looking forward to writing Daraya celebrating the Winter Solstice with Anara, his wife (they had an arranged marriage, so they're just getting to know each other, at this point).

On the Winter Solstice, the Nurans celebrate the world’s birthday. Since it’s customary to celebrate birthdays with gifts, Nurans exchange gifts with each other and the gods, offering sacrifices at the temple. A week-long, nighttime festival occurs; feasts, plays, folk operas, music, dancing, and special lantern-making competitions are held. On the last night, Nurans make paper sky lanterns, write down prayers, wishes, and blessings on them, and launch the lanterns.

Space: Where’s your favorite place to write?

I would say my office desk or my room: whichever is empty! I prefer to write alone <3

Thank you for the ask!

Elemental Author Asks

#author asks #original fiction #my original writing #brother and the bowman #historical fiction #ancient persia #ancient rome #ancient thrace #scythia #thanks for the ask! #musetta answers

[illustratus]

Tereus' Banquet (Tereus Confronted with the Head of his Son Itylus)

by Peter Paul Rubens

#tereus #art #peter paul rubens #macabre #banquet #greek mythology #king #thrace #thracian #itylus #philomela #procne #ovid's metamorphoses #ovid #metamorphoses #ancient greece #ancient greek #classical antiquity #tragedy #architecture #dinner #son #europe #european #mythology #mythological #macabre banquet

[greekgiftsshop]

Tetradrachm - Ancient Greek Macedonian Kingdom, Thrace, King Lysimachus Reproduction Coin.

Obverse: diademed head of the deified Alexander right, with horn of Ammon. Reverse: Athena Nikephoros (goddess Athena of Victory) seated left, holding Nike, left arm resting on shield, transverse spear in background; Φ to outer left; to inner left, turreted head of goddess Tyche right (Smyrna mint). Diameter coin 28 mm.

#tetradrachm #coin #ancient #greek #greece #macedonian #kingdom #king #Lysimachus #Lysimachos #alexander the great #goddess athena #collectibles #coins #Thrace