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#;;theodredcanon
eohere · 1 year
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aAUGRHR IT’S ABOUT THEODRED ULTIMATELY FAILING IN EVERY DUTY THAT HE HOLDS THE MOST DEAR!! Because he believes (and has every reason to believe) that he cannot be authentic!! Shieldarm posts have me realising fundamental truths- Theodred believes he must create himself anew for every space he fills for every role he inhabits because the man HE is, he cannot see himself as suitable to any of it. And he has every reason to think that!!, because of his sexuality, because of his gondorian-ness, because of his rohirric-ness, because of his desires, because of his lesser son of a lesser son of greater sires, because he is not his grandfather, because he cares too much-  tand he succeeds in compensating for all of those things for a while RIGHT up until he doesn’t, because it is too much in the end, one man cannot be all these people. He fails his family personally, he fails his people politically, he fails his men militaristically, he fails himself fundamentally!!! A thousand things he should have done but did not in the name of what he believed he needed to be at the time, creating a net of competing Theodreds in the life of every person he touched that he either leaves them all with at his death or that he is entirely entangled with when he is raised to the Kingship. aRGH AND ALL THIS WAS FOUNDED!! On the bones of the son of a widower who needed that son to be worth the life of his wife and that was always just Theodred in some respects and yet in others it could never have been just Theodred and he always knew it to be the case. Theodred being so impactfully connected to every member of his family yet also incapable of allowing those connections to flourish when that would require a level of authenticity from him that he believes would sabotage that relationship in the end!! aaa
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eohere · 1 year
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This excerpt from Wordsworth’s ‘Lines Composed a Few Miles above Tintern Abbey‘ I’m claiming as part of an in-universe poem Theodred wrote in Sindarin in an effort to attempt a particularly archaic genre of poetry in Gondor that takes it’s inspirations from other Elven works. (A genre that often relied on natural landscapes to convey a melancholic feeling, either about the future or the past) 
If solitude, or fear, or pain, or grief, Should be thy portion, with what healing thoughts Of tender joy wilt thou remember me, And these my exhortations! Nor, perchance— If I should be where I no more can hear Thy voice, nor catch from thy wild eyes these gleams Of past existence—wilt thou then forget That on the banks of this delightful stream We stood together; and that I, so long A worshipper of Nature, hither came Unwearied in that service: rather say With warmer love—oh! with far deeper zeal Of holier love. Nor wilt thou then forget, That after many wanderings, many years Of absence, these steep woods and lofty cliffs, And this green pastoral landscape, were to me More dear, both for themselves and for thy sake!
It started as a challenge to himself, both for the language he didn’t usually compose in AND for the subject matter than he usually found trite. But he found a great well of feeling to write from, in the end, when contemplating his newly-orphaned cousins who now lived with him, along with a great unspoken affinity with the earth and lands about him that he had never really understood within himself until then. In the end the poem became about Eowyn, which surprised him. 
He published it in Gondor, (under a pseudonym of course as he did with all his poetry with different names each time), and it received quite high acclaim for being both contemporary to the genre whilst also maintaining the basic foundation of it. Theodred himself stopped being able to read it as the years went by and Eowyn never had the chance to read it.  
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eohere · 1 year
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I think, in Rohan’s complex cultural landscape, queer issues are also viewed in complex ways. On the most basic level, various disparate Northmen cultures had a variety of ways of looking at queer sexuality but none of them truly denied non-hetero relationships from being accepted within communities. And in terms of rohirric attitudes, any negative views of queer sexuality can be reasonably assumed to come from Gondorian/dunadan influence. 
However, some of the time those influences are hard to discern, with particularly misogynistic-originated/hypermasculanised stigmas against gay men and their committed relationships appearing to come from the oldest traditions and beliefs of the Rohir, traceable back to Eorl’s time and before. BUT even these have been influenced by Dunadain religious beliefs, for these of course were traditions descended from the Eotheod whom had been allies with Gondor long before Rohan’s creation. 
PRACTICALLY speaking, and with reference to Theodred, stigma would have been levelled upon him most from the higher nobility within Rohan (if he had ever openly been attracted too and loved men exclusively). However, there was also a running ‘traditionalist’ view, more or less prevalent depending upon the rohir community and changeable by generation, that demasculinised not necessarily sex with men, but men who were not attracted to women and whom fell in love with other men. This is often framed as a viewpoint in rebellion against Gondorian influence, a kind of flipped version of Gondor’s perception that profound love between the same sex is blessed and honourable, but sex is a corruption of the soul etc etc. However in the end at it’s root it is more of a mutated prejudice passed down and changed through generations. 
Indeed amongst some area-specific Rider/military cultures, taking sexual partners among your comrades is commonplace and almost expected, but both positions and romantic attachments are shamed with varying frequency and harshness. Theodred had witnessed or experienced various aspects of these cultures during his youth as a Rider in different Eoreds, but he had still been mostly discreet and kept his reputation very clean. 
In general, if (or when depending upon verse) Theodred were to ‘out’ himself, it would not be such a catastrophic social death as it might be in Gondor. He would still be mostly accepted and there would be no tangible consequence to it. However there would be intangible social consequences, biases and altered opinions that would have made his life and duties significantly more difficult than before, which is not to mention Gondorian opinion. It could be equated too a similar experience of being gay in England right now, with differences of cause and expression of such opinions, but similar impacts and severities. 
This is in tandem with @shieldarm​ ‘s own HC post, I think I agree that queer women had an easier time being queer, in that they were met either with nonchalant acceptance or bewilderment, viewed more as a ‘strange sort’ but not with any particular malice or shame, especially when they exemplified the role they had chosen to take on (in Eowyn’s case). For women, the issue was more them being women than being queer and with histories of women warriors littering Eotheod history, they had a cultural space that they could fill. 
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eohere · 1 year
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And the PROBLEM IS HE’S BITTER ABOUT IT ALL!! He has been trying, trying so hard, it was so brutal, he gave up so much, he drove himself to the edge of endurance, exhaustion, grief, misery, and self-denial, sacrificed relationships- how could it all just... fail! Even that goal, from the very earliest history of this method, created to satisfy and fill the hole in his father that was always too big for him to fit, he fails at that too! Theodred and Theoden never reconcile! Theoden dies believing that Theodred is unfit, the only reason Theodred remains as heir to the throne is that Eomer refuses to be the one to supplant him!! And this level of abandonment... from so many people he cares about so deeply... has been suppressing the true depth of care he feels in order to maintain that relationship!! The sharp angry bitterness of it all... it could turn him into a very cruel person if he allowed it too. He doesn’t, because he has a core to him that has never wavered, even if he smothered it, but sometimes he wants too. Sometimes he wants to say hang it all, I tried, fix it yourselves, why do I have to be the one to flay myself open for inspection? And at times... it makes him resist for a moment, it makes him snap, waspish, sharper than even his usual sharpness.
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eohere · 1 year
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Theodred actually is a pretty mediocre swordsman, he certainly has his tricks and is exceedingly capable as a fighter, but there is no special-ness to his skills in one-on-one combat. Both Eomer and Eowyn surpassed him in such things before he died, winning to him in spars far more regularly than they lost. And likely this was part of what made his assassination a success. He simply could not stand alone long enough for Grimbold to reach him.
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eohere · 1 year
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THE THING IS Theodred is in no way proud of his relationship with Eoten. It is a necessary allyship of equals, Eoten is not HIS horse, they are colleagues (maybe they are friends, if fractuous ones, but he would never presume) and nor does he show any particular skill or quality on Theodred’s part, expect perhaps his unfathomable stubbornness. 
Ides, however, is his horse. She is a mottle-coloured sturdy creature, neither particularly large nor small, not fast or slow, but enduring of heavy pack loads and careful with her feet. She is also the envy of any rider who knows her and the true symbol of Theodred’s horsemanship. 
Theodred took her in wild off the Kingstead, tamed her, trained her, conditioned her and none can claim any influence on her but himself. And what an influence that is! Ides is alert to danger yet does not spook easily, she is obedient when it is prudent and yet cunning and independent as well, she has naturalised to many commands, both verbal and silent, many being as complex as ‘go and hide nearby’ or ‘run beside me and ready to bear me away’. Eoten might be a far more powerful warrior and competent companion in battle but Ides does not flinch from riding into battle and keeps an even and level gallop to aid Theodred’s aim with spear and bow. She shadows Theodred’s movements when left to her own devices but can also seamlessly fit back into the herds of wild horses when necessary. She trusts Theodred as her leader and accepts his judgements of dangers and risks and is also boundlessly fond of him. 
It is Ides who Theodred is most proud of, and most comfortable around. In the cold of the wilds Theodred happily sleeps with his back to Ides’ flank and her head cradled in his lap. She will nibble at his shoulder, snuff at his hair and play dead with him in moments of leisure. Eoten is, of course, utterly appalled by the display, but he is respectful to her and comfortable enough to allow her to walk in step with him.
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eohere · 1 year
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The truly amusing fact of the matter is that, whilst he has a far grimmer and more blunt manner, Theodred is actually the far better politician in a competition between him and Boromir. He may have less patience overall, but he has a great deal more patience for the individual concerns of the Thanes and Reeves of the riddermark, along with a running catalogue of those various concerns that he keeps in his thoughts at all times. In this actually Theodred is more like Boromir’s father than Boromir is himself. 
And indeed, far more of Theodred’s actions as Prince and Marshall were politically based, be it solving squabbles, arranging marriage matches, manoeuvring allies into positions of social strength and brokering peace between feuding families, this was the meat of Theodred’s accomplishments in service of Rohan. It was forever a bitten frustration of his that, as his Father’s illness and Grima’s influence progressed, this work became more and more impossible for him to do.  
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eohere · 1 year
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I am thinking about Theodred and his incredibly complex relationship with Gondor. I am thinking about him as Prince of the house of Eorl, grandson of Thengel, growing up in a house that speaks Sindarin, a language his grandfather learned in a country with citizens that discuss Rohan’s ‘love of war’ and laud themselves for influencing Rohirric culture towards ‘arts and gentleness’ whilst bemoaning their own society becoming too much like Rohan. 
I am thinking of Theodred, the son of the ‘lesser son of greater sires’, born and raised in Rohan and lovingly entrenched in that society, loyal to the rohirrim as both an earnest act of a Prince’s dedication AND a son’s little rebellion, who tries to live up to his uncle Eomund’s traditionalist expectations whilst also abiding by his father’s image of Thengel’s royal majesty, but never quite meeting either measure. 
I am thinking of Theodred weathering the frustrating society of his Grandmother and aunts, women who returned to Gondor as soon as their husband and father was dead, and yet loving them all the same and being loved by them. Loving to write as well, not just letters and stories but poetry too, in multiple modes, even in Sindarin, facts about himself that he purposefully hides from almost everyone who knows him. 
But a Theodred who also knows Gondor in a whole other world as well, the Gondor many of the faithful fear, that has become more alike to the Rohirrim, not just in an equal valuing of military defense as well as academia, but as less grim men as well. Theodred knows the Gondor of many languages, lineages and histories, the Gondor Boromir introduces him too, the one he loves and defends. It is a Gondor that he understands as anything but a monolith, perceiving it’s own history through a thousand different viewpoints, and one that at it’s base, genuinely and loyally, loves Rohan for it’s friendship and values their connection for it’s history and it’s present. 
It’s about!! Theodred, sat on the edges of a conversation in Lossarnach about ancient poetry written by Tar-Telperien and preserved within Pelargirian archives and having to pretend that he does not have things to contribute to that discussion, not out of shame, but out of some internal thing within him that says it would be disrespectful to his own people and their ‘ownership’ of him to openly display this personal channel to his heart. This sense that, when in Gondor, he must carry all of Rohan with him, that he must be even more a man of Rohan than usual, that he must make himself uncomfortable here to fulfil the demands of an archetype he has committed too all by himself. 
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eohere · 3 years
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I’ve said this before but Theodred’s title of Prince does not afford him as much special treatment as one might expect. He still is of course, the King’s son. But in terms of his authority, he is closer to the other marshals of the riddermark. And, pertinent to what I’m thinking of now, he has a place amongst the working of the Kingstead, it’s farms and storehouses and cattle slaughter. Theodred doesn’t have a croft that he farms by himself per-se, but in times of high labour he is commonly expected to join in the efforts. He sews and tills fields, harvests, drives cattle in for winter, hunts boar in the autumn and helps with the cultivating of wild foraging plants throughout the year. Indeed, Theodred is quite the farmer, well aware of wisdoms and practices and such needed for the job, feeding their people being the major concern for Rohir royalty. He keeps a good head of food stores and a lot of his riding out was originally for the purposes of seeing to food shortages and advising or organising relief. Theodred has even spent time with the more nomadic herders of the Eastemnet, keeping an eye on what are known as the ‘kings beasts’, herds owned specifically by the crown and loaned out to the herders who make the best bidding every ten years. 
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eohere · 3 years
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Eoten, Grandson of Shadowfax, Prince of Horses
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This prince had been even more reclusive than his Grandfather and renowned to be even more foul tempered and proud to boot. Though the stallion had been known to inhabit the Grimslade forest of the Westfold and at times roam up to the Stonedeans, very few could claim to have sighted him. None could claim to have ridden him. Those who had tried to rope the horse were often badly injured or even killed. 
It was with all this in mind that stubborn and young prince Theodred decided he had to ride Eoten in the coming wars of his people. Eoten was not a name given to the horse in fondness, the locals called him ‘giant monster’ for the sheer size and ferocity of him. By fourteen Theodred would returned from his efforts so battered and bruised that Theoden often feared for his life. But Theodred would not be persuaded against his course, a dogged determination and knowledge of later need driving him. 
In the end, there was no taming or breaking. Eoten calmly considered the state of Rohan, the orcs that infested his forests and the dangers that grew in the mountains. And he agreed that this required his intervention, he even agreed that Theodred was the best partner to help do so, given how much he had tossed, chased, bitten, kicked and body slammed the youth and still the boy had continued to pursue him. 
And so, reluctantly, the Eoten deigned to bear Theodred through his wars, but nothing more. He would not be confined to a stable, he would not be lead on a halter, he would not be shod or tacked and it took a lot of convincing for him to accept Theodred grooming him. Most importantly, none but royal hands were allowed to touch him, Theodred was the only one who could care for him. It was a great deal of responsibility, especially for a teenager, but Theodred had expected such an end from the start and he had been prepared for it. 
It took years for their reluctant truce to become a comfortable working relationship and even longer for them to admit some fondness between them. This manifests mainly in Theodred’s allowance to argue and snap at the horse without serious physical harm as a consequence, though their rows still always appear terrifying to an outsider. 
In the end, it was a worthy effort. Eoten’s massive bulk of muscle and power took very well to warring and he became a vicious warrior in his own right, Theodred often dismounting to fight alongside the horse as much as astride him. But in all things, he is a prince and he demands to be treated as such. 
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eohere · 3 years
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Have I said this before? I definitely have but it bares repeating, Theodred is. Ugly. By all middle earth standards. He is not fair. He is not beautiful. He is run ragged and he looks like he ran face first into a wall, he can only grow a messy scruff, beards just elude him. His face is pock marked and dry. His hair is in no way golden, it’s dry and bleached and all in all he is UNLOVELY. 
Because at least one FUCKING member of royalty has to be considered unpleasing. Tolkien. They can’t all be beautiful John!!
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eohere · 3 years
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So, Theodred's reputation does not recover from Grima's tampering. It went on too long and was spread too widely. Perhaps Grima was shown to be foul in the end, but by 3019 people have been hearing of Theodred's indolent nature and selfish ways from others too. They can’t weedle out all his spies and rumour becomes fact quickly. So Theodred's the first to abdicate. And it's angry and bitter too, he sticks it out for four years, he tries so hard to bring everyone together. But even if more people trust him, even if he has many fervent supporters, all he's doing now is causing more division. 
So he abdicates and leaves sometime after seeing Eomer settled. He says he must go because he's still a divisive figure and it's better for him to not be there. But, actually, it is eating him from the inside out. It’s hollowing him, the weight of how much he had to sacrifice for a home that does not want or need him. He needs to be away. And so to Gondor he goes!
It’s the natural step, to crawl to where Boromir is when he is at a loss. But they cannot just start living together, the perception of them as individuals reflects back onto their families and governments, for a start. And that feels like it should still be important. So they both assume that norm and Theodred settles in at Merethond.
And it feels... oh it feels horrible, the necessary distance of concealment. It feels worse than it's ever felt before, when they're watching their families just indulge in weddings and healing and tending their gardens, children on the way. And they're still standing their solitary ground, kept apart. Which was easier when it was a universal struggle to be near loved ones, easier when the reason they had to maintain their reputations was trying to kill them everyday. 
But now they're watching these children stumble into love with the ease and nonsense worries of the young, and they want to be happy for them, but all it's doing is turning them bitter and lonely and wanting. It's gutting too, that it feels like peace is making them into far angrier and more bleeding people than war ever did. They have expectations for themselves, positions both official and familial to perform, they were so READY to embrace this new world of theirs, but they just have less and less heart for it all. 
They know something must change, but discussions about it seem complex and exhausting and ultimately hopeless for their goals. They don’t see a sensible solution.
And eventually, one night, Boromir just tells him to stay. Theodred is about to pull away and leave and Boromir feels like it’s breaking his heart. So he tells him he wants him to stay. There is no subtle way to leave the Steward’s rooms in the day, and Theodred reminds him as much, asks him what they’ll do then. Boromir tells him he doesn’t know and is too tired to care, just stay for now, just stay here.
And Theodred remembers the first time he heard Boromir want something so brokenly, and he feels a familiar coiling ravenousness rise up in him again. It's a little crueller this time, it feels a little flayed and raw and angry, but it's the same. And he realises it is right that this decision isn't carefully planned, it's right that Boromir wants him to stay and so he just does. It feels like the greatest relief in the world to just do something for Boromir’s sake alone, to just let himself spin entirely on Boromir's axis. And he feels a sense of foundation beneath his feet again, one that he hadn’t known he'd lost until Boromir gave it back. No, he is wanted, someone wants him, in an uncomplicated way, knowing all of him there is to know, he's wanted. He is not homeless. 
So Theodred stays and they both agree, almost wordlessly, that they will just stop the pretence. No telling anyone, no worrying over it, what will be will be, they just want to find a place for them here, they have to stop fighting at some point. 
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eohere · 3 years
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HEADCANON - Theodred and his reputation
Theodred had to weather abject humiliation during the last five years of his life. This was not a situation where he was a noble bastion, holding onto his honour and integrity and reputation through it all. Grima did absolutely everything in his power to break the chains of loyalty and dedication between Eomer, Theodred and Theoden, he wanted them all angry and resentful of one another, he wanted the country torn apart with it. But most of all he wanted trust between the people and their royal line to be broken. 
And there was no chance that Theodred could preserve both his, and Theoden’s and Eomer’s reputation. Grima deeply enjoyed pushing the narrative of Theodred as the indolent and irresponsible Prince. He used Fengel’s still ever present shadow to paint a comparison between him and his great grandson, twisting and crafting scenarios to cast blame. And Theodred fought it for a little time, his instinct to defend his own hard-won respect ingrained. 
But he quickly realised that this was not an arena he would succeed on. Grima was the better politician, connected and shielded in ways Theodred was not. And if the Prince was not to blame, then someone else had to be. And so, with a great deal of pain, he let the bulk rest on his shoulders. For he could not allow the King to be questioned when in a state of war and Eomer would not claim the Third-Marshall’s seat until a year before his death. 
And so, Theodred was a dallier, Theodred became a callous commander, Theodred was war mongering and selfish and jealous of Saruman’s influence over the King. And each time he was accused he would return to Edoras, hear his crimes and ask for forgiveness, with the kind of restraint he would never have expected from even himself before. 
By 3019 TA the Westfold remains the only province within Rohan that holds him in any kind of respect. Grimbold of Grimslade is one of few men Theodred entrusts with his plans and keeps in his confidences, hence it is he and those few Captains who would follow Theodred into death itself who ride to his muster at the Ford of Isen. 
And this is why Theoden never mentions his son by name for the entirety of the book. Indeed, when Eomer remembers Theodred’s death in the crimes of Saruman, Theoden appears to purposefully exclude him. Because his reputation and legacy is still tarnished in Theoden’s memory and that is true also in a universe where he lives. And I’m realising suddenly... that this is why Theodred abdicates in that situation. There is too much distrust and it would take too much time to scrub the slate clean when Rohan needs a King to recover. And oh, that is a cruel and bitter pill to swallow.
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eohere · 3 years
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Theodred also doesn’t hold any deference for the mystic but that’s just because he’s a foul mannered bastard who would resist such idealism to the death of him. You know how Gimli says he’ll forgive Eomer for his bad words about Galadriel cus he’ll get it when he sees her? Theodred would take death by dwarf over agreeing that Galadriel’s all cool now. He wants reparations, he wants answers about where those men went, he wants an official apology. 
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eohere · 3 years
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HEADCANON; Theodred, Rohir Culture and Eomund
Even as a young boy, Theodred was very aware he would have to prove himself to his people, and that it would be an uphill battle to do so. Theoden rode the relief of his father’s kingship after Fengel’s disastrous reign. But time and opinions moved quickly and Theodred was the first Prince to be born in Rohan for a hundred years. Theoden still could not speak Rohirric.
Eomund, on the other hand, was a man so Rohir he could have been Eorl himself. He held and remembered ancient traditions of their people and believed strongly that their Kings should do the same. He and Theoden had a fractious relationship and that often revolved around Theodred’s upbringing. This all culminated in Eomund’s insistance that Theodred join his Eored at 14, not his father’s or one of his Captains. ‘A boy cannot become a man whilst still crying for his father.’ 
Theodred rather resented that assessment, given how little he had learned to rely on his father. But even so, when Theoden protested, Theodred intervened and agreed with Eomund’s plan, though he felt an amount of wariness towards his Uncle’s fervour. If he was going to earn the trust he would need in later life, he had to weather through his childhood as quickly as possible. And he did, aggressively, disregarding the usual instincts and fears of a child and marching into trauma and bloodshed perhaps too readily.
Not that that meant he cowed to his Uncle on anything else. They disagreed often and loudly, most particularly on the use and treatment of boys within their ranks (after he grew enough to realise the damage he had taken from it) and the familial love between them was often clouded or quashed by cultural, political and moral dogmas that neither of them could set aside. Even so, Eomund did not have to think hard before vouching for Theodred’s readiness and right to take the mantel of Second-Marshall (after Erkenbrand suffered a debilitating injury to his knee) at the very young age of 20. 
Still, they continued disagreeing and Eomund maintained his critical and sharp air around Theodred until his death when Theodred was 24. His loss was complex and difficult and left a great deal unsaid, yet also heralded even more heartbreaking loss and the new responsibility of two grieving adopted siblings that Theodred was not prepared for.
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eohere · 4 years
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Listen to me very carefully, Theodred is UGLY by all conventional respects. He is not good looking, his face is WAY too long and his nose looks like it was squashed in haphazardly, which isn’t helped with it being broken at least once every four years. He gets jowls early, his chin is out of shape, his eyes are set too deep and have big bags underneath them. His hair isn’t golden it’s an uninspiring dry flaxen mess and his green eyes are more murky marsh than forest emerald. You can call as many characters ‘fair’ as you like John but you never described Theodred so I get him now he’s MINE and he’s looks like TRASH and he DOES NOT CARE!
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