#(in my experience it's not much more sexist than any other fandom - if anything there's a lot of questionable 'feminist' overcorrection)

[xerith-42]

Stop blaming characters for bad writers

Seriously, stop fucking doing this. While this is a post that could certainly be applicable to MANY fandoms, I'm mainly directing this whole rant at my target audience which is mentally ill minecraft obsessed freaks.

If a character is written badly, gets badly fumbled by the creator, or has the ball dropped in regards to their arc in some way, a lot of people will blame the character, as if they're a real conscious person making these decisions. When they aren't. They're a block man literally being controlled by two people who just aren't very good writers and one or both of them are incredibly sexist, kind of racist, ableist, and just bad writers in general.

Yeah, Laurance does some pretty shitty things through out Season 2 of MCD, actively crossing lines he wouldn't have previously crossed. We as fans can cope by saying something something calling, or just saying Laurance is a bad abusive person, but the reality is that the writers wanted to force the series to fit a specific vision and as a result were willing to do anything to get the series to that point. In order to make Aaron the most favorable suitor for Aphmau, her previous suitors need to be out of the picture, or clearly inferior options.

Garroth suffered the out of the picture, being mostly absent outside of a few cutscenes here and there until episode 81 of season 2, but episode 81 is the culmination of the writers goals to make Aarmau happen. By the time Garroth has returned to the series, the damage has already been done. He's not getting the life he wants. And Laurance is written out of the picture as well, but only after being shown to be inferior because Jesson were pushing an agenda.

Laurance didn't deteriorate as a person due to neglect of his physical and mental well being after a severely traumatic experience. He deteriorated as a character because the writers stopped giving as much of a shit about him and instead were using the series as self indulgent fanfiction of alternate versions of themselves. That's not Laurance's fault.

And this applies to any character who was completely fumbled in MyStreet due to this similar focus on wish fulfillment from the writers. Jess has stated that the relationship between Aphmau and Aaron in Phoenix Drop High is reflective of her relationship with Jason, we all know this. This means that any characters who come off as total fucking creeps in that series (namely Gene), are not actually acting on the whims of their own autonomy or desires as characters. They are acting in service of telling a predetermined story that they are retroactively being added into for author fulfillment.

In this regard I fully support fandom cope and say that you should rewrite your little guys to your hearts content. But if you're going to criticize these characters for their actions, don't criticize them. They didn't do anything wrong. All characters are just puppets in service of the story or themes a writer is trying to push. If a character acts in an objectively terrible way, especially a way that isn't in line with their previous characterizations, that is a failing of the writers, not the character.

And I feel like largely a lot of us can and frequently do this. We're actively criticizing Jesson for being terrible low-key bigoted writers all the god damn time, it's like half of the content here. But when we get into character discourse I feel like some people cling onto bad actions of the canon too closely and I've seen more than a few posts presume some pretty terrible interpretations of characters based on these actions. Obviously Laurance is a character I and a lot of others are fixated on so a lot of discourse revolves around him, and it was seeing some... interesting takes on him that prompted me to start writing this post.

But this happens to everyone. Quite personally based on the character I was shown in MyStreet, it feels really weird that Garroth would make an insensitive comment about his brother's weight. Yeah siblings poke fun at each other and often cross lines, but if that was something Zane was seriously insecure about (which it seems like he might be) then it does make Garroth come off as a really insensitive brother, which just doesn't gel with how hard he tries to bond with Zane despite their tense relationship. And I don't think Garroth should be criticized for making those comments.

Whoever wrote those lines (Jess and/or Jason) should be criticized for writing a scene where a character is mocked by their older sibling over a physical insecurity even if said sibling would not normally do that. It's not Travis' fault that Jesson never decided to give him more of a character beyond "funny pervy guy" that's not funny in every anime they've watched until Season 5 of MyStreet. It's unfair to try and say Travis should be scrutinized for his borderline sexual harassment of some characters when it's not his fault that happened, he was written by writers who don't think this sort of behavior isn't all that bad if they make it out for comedy and punch him in the face.

And god dammit it's not Laurance's fault that his jealousy became the most prevalent emotion he felt. Laurance has always been a character to give into his vices and yet fight against them at the same time, it's what makes him compelling. If they were going to pull on those vices in order to make him a less appealing love interest, he never had a chance to really be his own character after a certain point. Because at a certain point in Season 2, Jesson stopped caring about the character they had been writing for over a hundred episodes at that point. They just wanted to canonize their self insert ship and were willing to do anything to get it.

Laurance isn't an abusive angry person who would have killed Aphmau if they got together. He's a flawed character being handled by incredibly flawed writers who are prone to making some of the worst decisions you have ever seen a creator make in regards to their character writing. He was caught in the crossfire of the adoration he received from a very dedicated fanbase, and the creator who would rather pretend he and his previous arc didn't exist for the sake of her fun. It's not Laurance's fault his arc was stilted, jerked around, and ultimately ended with him completely face planting. And yet still reliably dragging his bloodied body up at just the slightest glimmer of hope (Void Paradox).

It's deeply poetic and tragic that I can describe his character in universe and in the meta-textual sense that way, but we should never blame Laurance, or Aaron, or any other characters for things being like this.

They didn't write the show. Jess and Jason did.

#minecraft diaries #text post #aphblr #aphverse #laurance zvahl #garroth ro'meave #minecraft diaries laurance #mystreet #mystreet garroth #mystreet travis #bad writing #fandom discourse #fandom discussion #character discussion #character discourse

[anghraine]

stripedroseandsketchpads replied to this post:

1) I’m very sorry to hear about the fandom sexists (god are they everywhere—“nasty woman” much? They sound like Andrew Tate, jfc!)

Thanks! Certain parts of Austen fandom are fairly conservative and very gender-normative and that's definitely come up in response to that particular fic before. First Impressions was my most popular Austen fic on AO3 for years, but other parts of fandom struggled more with the idea of a f!Darcy who does pretty much everything that canon Darcy does being desirable to a man, or appealing to anyone at all.

(In fairness to them, some of those spaces ended up actually having conversations about why Catherine registered as colder and more unpleasant than Darcy even when doing exactly the same things, interrogating their own double standards, etc.)

This isn't the only reason to dislike the fic or Catherine, of course—I made my other post late last night when I was tired and forgot to clarify that! It's from 2010 and definitely has flaws. It's just that there was (and apparently still is) a very glaring divide between the responses from the more progressive and queerer side of fandom and the more conservative and heteronormative side, wrt Catherine in that fic specifically (even though it's a het fic!).

2) Your fic concepts are impeccable, I followed you for genderbend blogging and I really need to spend sone time trawling your AO3

Thanks! I have written a ton of fic over the years, so some are definitely weaker than others, but I have fun with them.

Also, my experience is that most people are very much not here for genderbending, so that's really nice to hear!

Also tbh as a lesbian often writing lesbians… “step on me” any time a woman is the tiniest bit not-nice or does anything perceived as “mannish” (including being the tiniest bit not-nice) doesn’t feel much better…

it feels like ppl think femdom is “taking the most toxic possible iteration of misogyny in D/s dynamics w a male dom & female sub (bc obv male dom/female sub can be perfectly fine!) and flipping it so the man is in the ‘girl role’ and the woman is in the ‘male role’” and. Heavy sigh. A lot of AO3 comments give off the vibes of “She’s totally a bitch but I can say that bc I like it and think it’s hot. Feminism!” RIP.

Hmm. It really depends on context for me. My experience with it has come pretty overwhelmingly from other queer people, primarily queer women—that may reflect my social circle!—and that feels very different to me than an environment overwhelmingly dominated by straight women being like "ew, a woman acting like Darcy is so awful."

Like, sometimes it does definitely give a "me finding anything between slight assertiveness and mass murder in a woman hot is totally praxis" vibe that's annoying. But annoying in a very different way!

I will also say, in fairness to the AO3 First Impressions commentariat, that they did not literally say "step on me, Catherine," lol. I was just quickly characterizing the sort of vibe there—it was more like "I'm gay for Catherine" "you managed a female Darcy without making it feel like she's being punished, awesome" "Miss Darcy is a gem" "one of my favorite versions of Darcy" "I have a crush on Miss Darcy" "fem!Darcy 4ever and ever amen" etc. So the contrast with the "I don't get what Henry sees in her???" "I guess he wants to be dominated because he's weak" "Darcy could never be a woman" etc is just very sharp.

#stripedrosesandsketchpads #respuestas #nice things people say to me #fic talk #fic talk: first impressions #austen blogging #austen fanwank #a treeful of monkeys on nitrous oxide #catherine darcy #general fanwank #lady anne blogging #genderbending #long post

[bunglegaydogs]

Hiiii I'm just sending an ask because they're all different posts (read : I'm lazy) so please don't mind me lol

First and foremost, YOU ARE AMAZING AT EXPRESSING YOUR THOUGHTS AND YOUR ESSAYS ARE ALWAYS SO NUANCED?? SO YOU SAYING THAT WAS A HUGE COMPLIMENT OMG- I love reading your bsd essays so much and it's just now that I realised that they're all your essays abaammw some of the best in the fandom really. I'm always baffled when in the middle of an essay you go "I may not be articulating my thoughts right" or "this is kind of just put together" because girl you're amazing! Never stop writing these please ajajahsbw ALSO! Hearing your little thoughts and feelings pop up in the middle of an essay makes it so endearing to me. Like, that's a whole ass person writing these many words just to express how much they like this show and they're so adorable! (So sorry if that's offensive idk if calling someone adorable is)

Also, completely unrelated lol but this is exactly why I prefer to ask people questions instead of googling! Knowing that the person explaining is a human has their own opinions and hearing their feelings and experiences is so much more better and relatable than reading stuff off a Google website. Also your pfp is the cutest everyone has cute pfps nowadays 😭 anyways yes cute pfp :D

Actually getting to the point now:

1) yes yes Oda and Dazai's relationship is so dear to me I love them sm and I adore seeing Atsushi all caring for his mentor 😭 he's basically Dazai's emotional support cat!! Dazai let the boy in please I'm begging you he can purr probably and it would melt away your stress pls pls (Maybe everyone in the ADA sees Atsushi as their emotional support cat...)

2) Mori is a piece a shit, and you should be allowed to say it. I'm never biased in my writing but I loathe that guy with my very being and the whole people who like Mori thing really got me reconsidering...was *I* the bad guy for not liking a character when I actively liked a character very similar to him? Then I realised, I completely respect and treat equally all the people who don't like/hate Dazai. I don't treat them any different just because they don't like a character. And that's what I should expect too!

There's no post defending Dazai, and yet I still like him because I accept his wrongdoings and want him to keep getting better, like Oda told him to. Yknow, the argument would be MUCH different if Dazai was a woman and not a man, imagine bashing someone for liking a teen girl and not liking the guy who groomed her to be his heir. Yeah, really puts things into perspective. I'm not sexist, I treat (respectful) men and women equally, but Mori is just. No.

3) I haven't see it before in any canon source material but I feel like it's definitely true. It's clear that Dazai WANTS to want to keep living, but he can't bring himself to want it because of all the pain he's endured. He literally said in dark era that the reason he joined the mafia was to try and seek meaning in life by being close to death and violence. It's ironic, Dazai feels the most alive when he's about to LOSE that privilege. It could also mean that Dazai only realises the "value" in living when he's about to lose it. Perhaps he thinks of things he could've done, things he'll regret, and that helps him to stop before he actually does it. But in my opinion? I don't think he finds anything of worth in that time. He just convinces himself that he does. This is a personal hc but it's probably likely to be the case.

If you've listened to the song My R, you'll know exactly what I'm talking about.(totally recommend btw!).The girl in the song speaks to herself about her woes and the 'other' version of her comforts her telling her about all the things that she DOES have, but by the end of the song, she has lost everything of meaning and she can't comfort the "girl". It is only revealed that the girls she comforted are different versions of HERSELF that she stopped from jumping.

Anyways, in conclusion, SOMEBODY PLEASE GIVE THIS BOY A HUG HE DESERVES IT

oh my god oh my god oh my god

i am sat here on the verge of TEARS in my goddamn chuuya cosplay

okay okay give me a second i need to collect myself

you are singlehandedly the SWEETEST person ever im sobbing

literally i cant- thank you so fucking much! you dont understand how much this all means to me WOWOWOWOW <33333333

literally, my brain doesnt let me consume my content positively and so i always think that theyre quite bad or that im the only person who thinks that or that im saying all the wrong things lol

i have so many words and thoughts floating around in my little brain that i just cant find the words for, so thats honestly what those rants are, my delusional 4am thought processes when i deep things too much

and YOU THINK??? genuinely, thank you!!! i love reading people's essays and thoughts, so hearing you say that genuinely just warms my absolute heart <3

and yes yes i do get quite sidetracked very often and start just rambling and adding my own personal twists- genuinely i thought that was annoying for people to read, but you're just putting a big smile on my face right now :) and PLS DONT THINK CALLING ME ADORABLE IS OFFENSIVE I LITERALLY GIGGLED READING THAT SHIT FR. <333

i like to add personal experiences and thoughts into it, just to get my point across, put it into an irl perspective and let people also relate and see what im getting at. (unfortunately) i have the same experiences as most of these characters, and so that is why they're so dear to me and why i get very defensive and passionate writing about them!

and yes! getting your answers and stuff from irl people instead of strange irrelevant responses is much more preferred lol. it's more raw and in depth and definitely a lot more personal! and thank you so much!!! it's genuinely one of my favourite dazai panels istg hes such a pretty mf

1.) i love love LOVE their dynamic, i think it's one of my favourites in the show along with skk and ranpo and yosano. it really fucking hits hard, as all family dynamics do with me fr, idk what it is about them, they just get me. and yes!!! i love when atsushi shows that he cares for dazai it MAKES ME FEEL NICE <3 and that's so real oh my god hes a tiger please PLEASE he can fucking PURR (there was a tumblr post i saw, i can try and find it but it made me actually cry laughing)

THIS ONE i was fucking howling but yes! their relationship is also one that really really gets to me! and yes, he is just the ada's support cat, it's canon, i'm ranpo's sweets

2.) thank you thank you THANK YOU mori is an actual degenerate human being. he's not made to be liked or appreciated or revered, it's just fucking AEUGH. i'm not going to demonise the people who enjoy him as a character, but seriously, it's a big red flag to overlook the canon pedophilia. i saw someone make a defense against him saying "yes, but he's never actually touched kids, so that doesn't mean anything" SORRY? they also went on to say that he "restrains himself" from having pedophilic thoughts with elise, and basically praised him for that. needless to say, it got me feeling fucking icky. and yes! i feel exactly the same. i always think that "oh, maybe i'm the awful one for not liking him? am i bad?" even though, no, i'm perfectly fine thinking that way and i am allowed to think that way. and exactly again! dazai is my favourite character, but i recognise his flaws and his mistakes and don't forgive them. but he's actively trying to "be a better person" (i say this in quotation marks because dazai sees everything he does as inevitably pointless, but still wishes to uphold oda's dying words. i am definitely going to make a post about this in the near future lol) and i dont make my analyses biased towards him, and i stay on neutral ground UNLESS personal opinion comes up, to which i then say that it's my personal opinion, not fact, and that it's anybody's choice to think however they want. if somebody doesn't like dazai; okay! i'm interested in talking with them, and we can both talk about things we're very passionate about and have healthy conversations! unlike some people i have seen on reddit, goddamn. but no, we're not the bad people for hating that knobhead fr. we should all treat and be treated the same as any other fan in the fandom and get along, and i wish we could ALL do that in non-toxic ways. 99% of this fandom are the loveliest people ever, but that 1% just needs to get a grip like omg. we should treat others how we want to be treated, regardless of who favours what ship and who likes what character. and real!!! if gender roles were reversed for dazai, this would be much more problematic, and that's upsetting! dw dw, i dont think its sexist, i think its putting things into perspective bc, either way, its shitty how he was treated. i fucking hate mori. whenever i see people defending him to like, the bone, like not getting into a decent discussion and being civil but instead bashing everyone who says otherwise and completely overlooking the abuse, manipulation, grooming, pedophilia and just him as a sick and twisted person in general, it just really irks me. as someone who has in fact had to deal with separate strands of abuse including many fucking counts of sexual abuse and pedophilia, it disgusts me seeing people overlooking it and it makes me feel fucking sick. that shit is not just something to be overlooked because of the fact that you enjoy mori as a character, he's not supposed to be a character that's consumed positively, he's a bad guy. a lot of characters in bsd are morally grey, but mori is just fucking morally black. he's downright evil.

(TW for suicide and self harm next btw :) )

3.) yes yes yessss!!! again, bringing personal stuff into it, i deal heavily with the whole topic of suicide and self harm. i've attempted twice and still deal with thoughts of it every single day, as well as self harm. so, this is one of my main reasons of dazai being my absolute favourite character, because of the representation and actual presentation of these topics. at first, we're shown them in a whimsical and whacky way, then it gets so much darker once we get into the dark era. it's a complete tonal shift, and it really sets in the gravity of the situation for him. and, as you said, he wants to have that ability to want to keep going and living, and he wants to be able to put the effort in, but he can't/ he physically cannot. as much as he would want to try, he can't. and yes, when he said that it fucking BROKE me fr. just at the chance that he's not able to keep living on anymore as a human is the one thing that keeps him alive, i fucking love asagiri's writing, it's so complex and beautiful. and its so so so real!!! youre literally right idc lmao. youve so eloquently said it im crying, youre putting all my thoughts into words <3

and yes!!! i have listened to the song, i absolutely LOVE it! and i never fail to think of dazai whenever i listen to it </3 and, i also think it's very very much like dazai, because of the multiple different versions we see of him too. chuuya hasn't exactly changed much, but he has gone through some very very complex and deep character developments, such as in fifteen and stormbringer. hes a lot more "tame" and respectful now, and a lot more mature. (except with dazai lmao) aku, we see he's changed slightly thanks to atsushi, but still no major character fucking flip arounds. all these characters we've watched slowly become better and more complex throughout the series. dazai? he just does 180s every single fucking year. hes different at 14 and 15 than he is at 18. hes different at 18 than he is at 20-22. and the different faces he puts on for each and every person, all his masks that he has. there's much variety to dazai; you never know what you'll get. there's so many different sides to him, because he doesn't know who he is. as odasaku saw him, "a lost child crying out". no matter the age, no matter the state, dazai is always going to be harbouring that broken child with him, trying to hide it and build up walls around it, because the only time he's ever shown it, he's gotten hurt or betrayed and lost some key figures in his life. trust issues much?

anyways i am sorry i am sorry i rambled too much lmao

in conclusion, YES, GIVE HIM A FUCKING HUG OH MY GOD PLEASE I JUST NEED SOMEONE TO HUG HIM PLS GOD LET ATSUSHI GIVE HIM A BIG HUG WHEN HE COMES OUT OF MEURSAULT I SWEAR-

thank you so so so SO much for your kind words!!! sweetest person EVER fr <333333

thank you my love!!! /p have a lovely day/night :) <3

[yippee-tippees]

might as well do an introduction.

hello i think! my name is Will. do not refer to me by anything other than my name and he/him pronouns, please.

i am:

• a minor

• asian

• transgender & queer

• mentally ill

• physically disabled

• autistic

• a crutch user

• a cane user

• an age regressor

extra:

- i draw and write! (fun!)

- working on a few big projects right now

- activist for mental health and disability rights, and also a few other things i suppose

dni:

! Racists/Xenophobes, Sexists, Homophobes, Transphobes, Proshippers, Pedophiles/'Maps', Fetishizers, Ableists, Self-proclaimed 'Aspiesz', NSFW blogs, Anti-agere, Ageplay, Trolls, SH/ED blogs, Autism Speaks Supporters, transabled/transid and RCTA

on very thin ice:

people who use words or slang like 'delulu' (no exceptions) and 'acoustic (only when as a synonym for stupid: example. 'why did he do that? is he acoustic?')', people who know me in real life unless we’re close (please), people who dislike any of my special interests & hyperfixations (sorry)

more may be added.

what i'll post on here

probably wont post much here, actually! if i do it'll be just some random stuff. if you used to follow an account called 'sandwichhsk' that posts Ride the Cyclone stuff, this is my account! that is me! i still have the account and it will be tagged underneath, but please note that i am indeed losing a bit of interest in Ride the Cyclone, so i will post it less often there.

the posts on this blog will be a wildcard of everything, but mostly there will be writing stuff and image descriptions.

here are my other blogs with more specific content:

this is my main.

@sandwichhsk - former name of this blog and holds all my previous posts (all reposted). my fandom art account full of more light-hearted fun and stuff. you get to see the relaxed side of me instead of the up-tight one, so yeah!

@kireoppi - mainly my disability and mental health blog. focuses on bringing awareness to disabled people, stuff like that. leans more into my personal experiences with the above and is more serious. my hyperfixations and special interests are listed on the introduction to this blog.

thank you for reading my introduction! have a nice day.

#introduction #introductory post

[sunfoxfic]

That person’s comment just made me remember—most notably after Chameleon—how many people were just…casually misogynistic and genuinely believed it was justified because it was directed at Lila and not one of the other girls (which isn’t true, because holy shit, all of the girls in the class got called all sorts of nasty things after that episode aired, especially Alya).

I don't really like Lila as a person or as a character, she honestly doesn't hold much narrative interest to me. I understand and to a degree appreciate her role in the story, but my content has never ever centered Lila. Most of the time I just ignore her existence

Which is not to say that people who don't are bad, because I've seen some great Lila-focused things that take her character in a great direction. But that's just not where I'm interested.

To be honest, I'm not innocent of calling people bitches in ways that are maybe a bit misogynistic. Sometimes that's the word to use, and it's not like I have Progressive Mode™ on 100% of the time. But usually I keep it to avenues where I'm confident that the people around me aren't going to use my language to justify their prejudice. It's incredibly different to call a woman a bitch in a private conversation with friends than on a public forum.

(And their comment just.... Wasn't clever? At all? Like. If it had at least been clever I might have just blocked them and moved on but what does that even mean?)

I've heard a lot about Chameleon salt. I was not in the fandom (I watched the first 2.5 seasons in August, and started keeping up with releases around Kwamibuster) and I'm glad for that. Most people who participated in that wave of salt never stopped to ask whether their knee-jerk reactions to that episode were a) justified, b) perpetuated by other biases toward the characters (thus why Alya got so much salt), and even if they were justified in their reaction, none of those people asked if c) the characters were written in such a poor like because of the writers' biases toward the characters.

(Fandom is very much so a balancing act between the fact that you can enjoy problematic media while maintaining critical thinking skills, and that at a certain point, staying true to canon is perpetuating shitty things. You can't take everything JKR writes at face value in your fanfic and claim to be an ally to trans people, Jewish people, PoC, indigenous people, etc. At a certain point you have to at least banish the shitty aspects of canon from your particular fandom experience. ML is not immune to that - there are things the writers have done that are clearly sexist, racist, etc. And if you take those things at face value, you're perpetuating them. So yeah, sometimes the canon presents a character who is terrible and evil, but when that character is also a stereotype, you have to look at it and either write away the stereotype or write away the stereotype and the evil.)

Okay that got off topic. But yeah, I don't trust most people who make it a point to hate Lila, because usually those people are reacting based off of hatred of a stereotype, which also means that they don't recognize the stereotype as bad. And when those people use sexist talking points to justify their hatred, I really don't fuck with them.

(And while we're at this, please do not respond to this person. Block em and move on. I responded because it was my post but that was more than enough. If any of you send anything more, I'll block you too, because that is not the appropriate response. Better yet, don't look at the context, because it really doesn't matter.)

#asks answered #anonymous #ml fandom salt

[doberbutts]

woozymitts

The same shit happened in The Witcher fandom, people got sooooo fucking upset when the show came out because "Ew these people are into the SHOW and not the BOOKS/GAMES they're doing Fandom wrong >:(" instead of like. Being happy that people discovered something they like and there's new people to be friends with and talk about TW with.

I missed a lot of that because I am a Games Fan from the time of The First Game and initially tried to engage with the fandom back when Wild Hunt came out because I was so fucking pumped to not only be returning to the Witcher but also because it was such a significant jump in game quality and then. And Then. I realized that the Witcher fandom was filled with a bunch of racist, sexist assholes who were more interested in spitting on any POC or queer person going “hey... um...” as well as any woman who was at least mildly uncomfortable with the implications of some of the romance options throughout the series as well as the gratuitous sexual violence within the universe spoken about so casually.

By the time the series came out, I’d heard a bunch of the same stupid whining “but POC don’t make sense here” “I can’t believe [female character] is a girlboss now” “the costumes” “the dialogue” “the lore changes” “make it fail” and resolved to simply not interact with the fandom outside of reading a few fics of my favs every now and again. I bought the books because the show reminded me that I’d been waiting for them all to be officially translated, and I want absolutely nothing to do with the Witcher fandom because of what I saw, despite having been in it for almost as long as it’s been available to US audiences.

moddeydhoo

There's a lottttt of snobbery in fandom. "Ew, new people! They can't be REAL fans because of several reasons I'll now think up and then use interchangeably! And all older adaptations are better because objective facts and definitely not because of the nostalgia halo effect! (also anyone who got into  the fandom earlier than me is a disgusting old who's also doing it wrong, because very valid reasons such as: adults are icky)"

Yes, I saw this when the Hobbit movies came out too, and was fairly frustrated about that (and hilariously, those movies are now being upheld as great when the same complaints were happening regarding them...) and it just really bothers me to see it again and again.

Did I like the Hobbit movies? They were alright for what they were. Not my favorite. Never going to match the feeling I had when I sat down to watch LOTR the first time. Made a lot of annoying changes to the lore. Screwed over their female elf OC’s actor. Good for a rewatch marathon with the OG but outside of specific scenes I don’t really find much interest in it.

Do I like the Hobbit-movies-era subset of the fandom? No, actually, most of the time I avoid anything to do with that because I feel the source of their interest has a much different tone and take than the actual book and surrounding materials. There’s only so many times one can see party-king Thranduil memes before being kind of annoyed that that was the takeaway when you’ve invested as much time as I have in learning this universe. I don’t read any fics written by folks who are going based off that trilogy’s version of events. I’m incredibly choosey with my Tolkien fan-created material and because I’m coming from an era where the OG trilogy movies were somewhat sacrilegious due to their changes, often it’s simply not Tolkien enough for me.

But I don’t go bother those fans about it. Let them have their fun. They’re not hurting anyone? If I want to experience the parts of the franchise I like again, they sit on my bookshelf and I can revisit them whenever I want. What’s the point of being so sanctimonious about whether people are interested in a piece of media because of the right adaption when the truth of the matter is that they’re all adaptions and thus will all be different from the source material as well as each other? I still reblog Hobbit gifsets to my main and I still own those movies. I’m happy just to be back in Middle Earth again when I watch them, even though certain aspects make me twitch.

I just hate to see people being so cruel. We’re all Tolkien fans in the end. If a different adaption really threatens (general) your ability to enjoy (general) your favorite adaption, then what are you actually a fan of?

[moonlayl]

@themarysuep:

I love Daisy and Kamala too and I know you love them so I'm not trying to be mean or anything. But why would you say you're enjoying Kareem the most on the show and you want him with Kamala in the MCU but you continually criticize Nakia? The woman and knowing woman are the ones, even in our own Muslim/Asian communities that are judged like the fandom has done.

Salam! (this gets a little repetitive and long, I apologize.)

1) I don’t think you’re being rude or mean, though you wording this in a way that implies i’m being lowkey sexist, because I have more of a problem with how the writers decided to depict  the characters I more strongly relate to, is incredibly weird to me.

It’s less “I’m criticizing Nakia, a fictional character for being this kind of muslim, and judging her” and more “I’m criticizing the writers that decided changing Nakia, despite the source material, in order to  make her appear more western, (and actually making her mixed, and changing her very Turkish last name) was a good idea” 

There is a message that is sent to me and many other muslims when they do this. A certain message i’ve been hearing all my life. One that is disrespectful and offensive. One that I will never ever stand behind. 

With Kareem, I’m not as familiar with his character in the comics, as I am with Kamala and Nakia. Also, his story isn’t one I relate to very much, since I’m NOT Pakistani, and never spent my entire life in a non western country. Unlike with Nakia, I wouldn’t actually know much about how offensive any probable changes made to his character would be. 

Also, unlike with Nakia, I had no idea Kareem would be in this show, and I had no idea the actor was mixed (when he’s not supposed to be) and I had no idea what kind of changes they had made to his character (back when I made this post). I loved him in the comics (not more than Nakia or Kamala) and so when he suddenly appeared (something I was not expecting) I immediately became excited and made this post before even completing the episode (in hindsight, I should have completed the episode before posting. I’ve been thinking of deleting that post)

With Nakia, I felt very strongly about her comic book counterpart, due to both of us having similar stories. I’m a hijabi myself who has had certain... personal experiences in the past that make me very wary whenever hijabis are depicted/mentioned in anything. 

The show making an effort to include so many small details from the comics (see all the comic panels in the credits, kamala being tricked into drinking alcohol, Kareem’s red mask/scarf, Kamala’s comic accurate costume, etc...) yet very clearly erasing Nakia’s ethnicity, and changing her hijab style to a more “fashionable” and more “acceptable to westerns” style, despite the source material being RIGHT THERE, and then proceeding to do the same thing with Tyesha, and completely erasing Muneeba being a hijabi, is all MAJOR for me. 

2)  I said I was enjoying Kareem the most in the show, because when he first showed up (which is when I made the post)  his very first scene felt very familiar to the comics (something i couldn’t really say for other characters, due to obvious changes already made) 

 Also, my post was more about me liking him better than Bruno or Kamran in the show, and I was mostly focusing on that. Again, I made that post BEFORE finishing the episode, and after watching the episode, I ended up disliking the way he was portrayed too. 

3) i have actually criticized Kareem’s character in a more recent ms marvel post I made (along with lots of other things)

4) I’m a little confused because I never mentioned I want Kareem and Kamala together.  In fact I specifically said “outside of romance, and shipping, and love interests and all of that, I’ve been waiting for Kareem to show up because I loved his character in the comics SO MUCH. And while I’m against Kamala getting a love interest, in terms of which boy was more enjoyable to watch, well Kareem definitely ate Bruno and Kamran upppp”

I’m team “Let Kamala stay single because she’s 16 and she’s a Muslimah.”

6) Lastly, Like I stated earlier, I’m getting a “why are you pitting women against each other” vibe from your comment which, I’ll admit, is frustrating, because me criticizing the way Nakia was written and changed actually has nothing to do with real life women who judge other women. 

And... if you know I keep criticizing Nakia, it means you’ve seen a few of my other posts. Kareem was NOT the only thing I’ve praised this show for. I’ve spoken about the wedding scene, Eid, the masjid, sheikh Abdullah, etc... I’ve reblogged many gifsets. 

so I’m confused as to how me criticizing the way a female character was written, but enjoying one or two scenes of a male character that has NOTHING to do with that female character, is somehow odd? Those two do not relate. There is no correlation. Why would you bring them up together? 

And, It makes me think of all those people trying to dismiss any valid and necessary criticism of this show (that has MANY flaws) as just misogyny or racism. 

I may not be Pakistani (neither is Nakia, which you’d obviously know), but I am a Muslimah, and I am a woc. I should be able to criticize the way they try to depict muslim women in the show, and the way they incorporate the comics. They KNEW what they were doing when they changed her hijab style. When they changed Tyesha’s hijab style, and when they made Muneeba no longer be a hijabi. They KNEW what they were doing when they quite literally changed her ethnicity, not just by casting someone who doesn’t fit, but by literally changing the actual characters ethnicity and name. 

These are things that SHOULD be criticized, and me as a hijabi living in the west, should be allowed to criticize how people who look like me, are portrayed.

Short version: Because it’s the truth. Because as a hijabi woman, the way they treated a female character who I relate to very much,  bothers me a lot more. And, me liking Kareem who had very little scenes has nothing to do with me criticizing another character (or the way that character was written, to be more accurate) 

#reply #anti mcu #ms marvel

[yukisohmasmokesweed]

what are your opinions on the thought process that Shigure groomed Akito so he could have control over them?

i think this opinion is a massive oversimplification of akito and shigure's power dynamic that has roots in the latent sexist idea that men inherently have power over women, as well as the heteronormative idea that love between a man and a woman is inherently romantic.

first off, i think it's a pretty bizarre assumption that a child could have the wherewithal and foresight to enact a complex series of actions that relies on the aggressor having a working knowledge of children's needs and behavior and years of planning and execution. people like to cite shigure's childhood declaration that he "...want[s] to make that [love] last forever...to give it form and make it [his]" as a statement of intent to groom and control. not only is this an absurd thing to say about a child who can't be any older than 10, it disregards two vital facets of akito and shigure's relationship: the magic in combination with shigure's own trauma. in my opinion, these lines speak to the power of the bond and how shigure interprets it. hatori and ayame reject it, the former letting himself sink into despair over his lack of control and festers in resentment, the latter completely removing himself from family life in order to avoid it. shigure, however, copes with the curse by diving in head first; just like the rest of the zodiac, he knows that there is no way out, so he embraces the good things about it in order to cope. in addition to this, though we don't know much about shigure's upbringing, we can assume based on his short interaction with his parents that he came from an emotionally neglectful home (expanded on here), so the prospect of unconditional love from akito is something he craves. i think these are much more reasonable motivations for the beginning of shigure's obsession rather than positing that grooming a person he had never met before he even went through puberty was his goal.

with regards to gendered power dynamics, i think this take severely underestimates the amount of abuse shigure withstands from akito. the idea that shigure is somehow in control of the relationship is simply not true; their relationship is DEFINED by their power struggle, which is a game that akito was winning until the very end. it ignores that men can be abused (and we see him being abused by akito, both physically and emotionally), and it also ignores that, in many toxic and abusive relationships, there is not always someone who is purely a victim. shigure is undoubtedly horrible to akito back—he is vindictive, cruel, and cold towards them. he also knows full well that he is one of akito's most important emotional supports and uses this position to manipulate them. however, his gender and age does NOT give him power over akito. he must do as akito says, both because of the magic and akito's position as the family head. while their relationship is not necessarily a victim-and-perpetrator situation, the power dynamic clearly favors akito, who is literally all-powerful and a professional abuser.

with regards to the heteronormative idea that men and women who love each other is inherently romantic: the scene most often referenced for this opinion is the scene between teenage shigure and child akito in chapter 101 where he tells akito he loves them. i do not interpret this scene to be romantic whatsoever, and i actually think it's really weird and telling that so many people do. these are two people whose only comfort is one another and have known each other since early childhood; i don't think it's weird at all for shigure to tell akito he loves them in this situation. given fb's focus on familial and platonic love, how platonic love can transform into romance, and the fact that akigure is a parallel to kyoru, i interpret this scene as entirely familial/platonic.

i can understand why people have this opinion: shigure is a man, and he's older, and he is a manipulator. he gives people very visceral reactions because he's incredibly well written. his actions do also fit into some of the stages of grooming, but it falls apart upon closer look (source): he targets a child (ie, he becomes close with his cousin who he is supernaturally bonded to against his free will), he gains the child's trust (ie, they become friends), and he fills a need, in this case akito's lack of parental support, all of which he does as a child himself. he does not, and cannot, isolate the child because he doesn't have the power to—akito's status would prevent them from being completely isolated (a good example of akito's position inherently giving them more power). when it comes to sexualizing the relationship, we just don't know, there isn't enough textual evidence to argue either way. as for the last step, maintaining control, shigure does NOT try and make akito think he is the only person who can fulfill akito's emotional and physical needs. in fact, he's doing the opposite; he WANTS akito to meet and be changed by tohru, and he has no problem with akito's intimate relationship with hatori, who probably provides more emotional and physical support to them than anyone. you could argue that shigure is trying to isolate akito by driving the other zodiacs away, but i don't think shigure attempting to separate an abuser from their victims is what "isolate" is meant to reflect here. so, as we can see, shigure fulfills SOME of the stages of grooming, but i don't think they hold up to scrutiny if you're thinking about fb in a nuanced and world-appropriate way.

i can also see why people misinterpret shigure's bid for control as some sort of abuse, but he states that he wants to be equal with akito, not above. i do think there is an aspect of misogyny here; shigure's masculinity, and the role that masculinity grants him in society, is threatened by akito's control over him, but i don't think having fragile masculinity and making grabs for power because of it when you're in an abusive relationship is abuse in turn.

i'm not trying to absolve shigure of anything here. he is cruel, he is manipulative, and he does things to hurt akito on purpose whether it's in revenge or not. but i don't think shigure meets the standards of being a groomer, and i think this assumption, in addition to what i previously stated, is a symptom of fandom misusing buzzwords to gain points. it's not a nuanced view and i think a lot of it, in my experience, comes from projection; shigure, in all his awfulness, is extremely easy to project onto. however, i think that there are some things in fb that are just not analogous to real life, and that this aspect of akito and shigure's relationship is one of them.

#ask #meta??? #takes a huge bong rip #csa mention #shigure #akito #shigure sohma #akito sohma #fruits basket

[bookofmirth]

I saw your recent response to an anon where you mentioned the drama that occurred the other day based around bookprofessor’s post. Obviously you don’t have to respond to this or publish it if you do not wish but I just wanted to bring up that while it is important to focus on the real life issues at hand, the OP was hypocritical in her post which is why people were getting upset. She was preaching against ableism while simultaneously flaunting her IQ and degree which is a form of ableism. She was speaking out against racism while ending her post using the racial slur “cracker” when talking about the possibly Caucasian Twitter elriels.

Obviously she had some important points but it was completely overshadowed by her participation in the hate speech and prejudice that she was speaking out against.

This does not in any way justify the nasty messages she received but on the same hand, I do not blame anyone that called her out for her hypocrisy. I hope you can understand why her post was so negatively received and how flawed it was. My hope is that one day everyone can just ignore the negativity, report those who are being racist/prejudiced in any way, and block those who are just being loud and who you don’t wish to see content from. But unfortunately I do not see that happening any time soon.

There are a few things I want to address in this because I think it's a good moment for the fandom to step back and reflect on how we treat one another, how we react to such issues, and how we behave moving forward.

First off, thanks for explaining your point of view without being antagonistic. I do think that everyone's emotional reactions to the post were valid. I do NOT think their responses, in terms of words and actions, were valid. Now before I move forward, I want to clarify that when I use the word "you", I am referring to anyone who may have had the response I am describing - not you personally, anon. Also please don’t freak out about how long this is, as a majority of it is a response to the fandom in general, not you in particular.

What was - and wasn’t - said in the original post

In this post, there were completely valid criticisms of the way that people in this fandom behave, and it wasn’t “generalizing” a certain group, it was literal, actual proof of things that had been said, by multiple people. I’m not going to get too into what Alyssa argued because her critiques of those tweets was flawless. The original post had very valid criticisms of what was happening on Twitter. Alyssa exposed the actually racist, homophobic, and imperialistic underpinnings of those tweets.

However, a lot of people are stuck on the bits before and after those critiques. @bookprofessor apologized for different aspects of her post in a few different asks. There were perhaps better ways that some of those things could have been phrased, some things that could have been left out. And she apologized. People can accept that apology or not but we can’t act like it didn’t happen. Like she didn’t reflect and learn to do better.

However, the people she was calling out have not done the same thing, and if anything, comments that focus more on Alyssa’s tone than why she wrote the post in the first place lets those people off the hook.

On cracker - Using the word "cracker" is not racist in the same way that using racial slurs against POC is. Is it prejudiced? Yes. But you cannot say that it is the same thing when that is demonstrably untrue, given centuries of oppressive history. No one has been oppressed for being white. Those are not the same. Reverse racism is not a thing because a white person punching down on POC is NOT AT ALL the same thing as a POC punching up at white people. The actions look the same, but the impact is so unequal it’s not even funny.

Racism is a systemic, institutionalized problem. It is not defined by individual actions, though those actions can either support or challenge racism. When someone calls a white person a cracker, there isn’t centuries of oppression giving power to and reinforcing that statement. That is not a “gotcha” moment.

Saying “I have x IQ” or “I have X degrees” is not ableist. I’m sorry to whoever told you it was ableist (again, not you specifically anon but people who had read the “aw shucks guys” vagueblogs about it), but it’s not. Those are facts. I have no idea what my IQ is, but I have five degrees from institutions of higher education. Me saying that is in no way ableist. 

Often, people mention those things to be elitist, yes. Sometimes, they can be used to say “hey I know more about this than you”. They can be used in a way that tries to make themselves feel superior. I suspect that this is the impression that a lot of people got of the post. However, there is a fine line between saying “hey that’s elitist” and professing anti intellectualism. Which is perhaps a side issue so I’ll let that go for now.

Another reason that people mention their degrees or qualifications is to establish their background knowledge and credibility. If I were to say “hey y’all I have two MA degrees” (which is true) I am not being ableist! It is a fact! It is factual! And I worked my ass off for those, I will be in student loan debt until I die for those, I have every right to mention them if I want to, and often I do so in order to establish my credibility, to explain the position I am coming from. And my prior knowledge of these topics is relevant when we are talking about literature since that’s what my degrees were on - literature and linguistics. That is why Alyssa mentioned her background, though she did pair it with comments about other people, for which she has apologized.

My final point about this is that I 1000% understand feeling insecure or less than because of educational attainment. I dropped out of high school. I had a complex about that for a long, long time. But I also know that if I took offense at someone else saying they had a PhD, then that offense is about me, not them. Someone else’s inferiority complex is not reason for people to pretend to be less than they are.

If those two comments are what overshadowed the bigger, more important issue for a lot of the readers of that post, then y’all allowed them to overshadow those more important issues. I am 99% sure that someone right now is reading this and thinking “but Leslie, it was the way that she said it!” Boy have I got some news for you!

How we react

This next section is not specific to this ask; instead, it is a discussion of how the fandom responded. If it were only one person who had said “but her tone” then I wouldn’t need to make this point. The fact that multiple people are exhibiting the behavior explained below is what makes this a cultural problem within the acotar fandom.

The main argument I saw on the post itself, and indeed any time I see people bring up how nasty Twitter can be, is that “it was a joke” and “that’s how stan Twitter works”.

No.

Those responses were quite useful for this post, though! So buckle up everyone, because I am going to talk about gaslighting, racism, respectability politics, and tone policing. While I understand that some people might have taken personal offense to what was said, there is a much bigger issue at stake that has nothing to do with individual feelings, and everything to do with ensuring that POC stay silenced and white supremacy is upheld. 

Back to the “but it’s a joke” thing. Thanks for gaslighting! Great example of that, person I’m not going to tag! Gaslighting is when you make someone question their experiences, when you try to make them think “wait, did I really feel that way? Is my feeling about that valid? Do I need to re-evaluate my response to this?? Am I blowing this out of proportion???” And saying “it’s just a joke” is a perfect way to do that. Did I say something accidentally sexist? It’s just a joke, nbd! Now you’re the problem, because you didn’t understand my joke and laugh!!! 

Saying “it’s a joke” or “oh they are old/young/ignorant, they will learn” is not a good response to... anything. It takes the responsibility off the people who are doing the harm, and putting it onto the people who were hurt. And in this case, anyone who read those tweets and found them harmful (which should be everyone?) is completely valid. You aren’t lesser for being angry or emotional or for seeing a problem where other people saw a joke. The people who see those things as acceptable jokes are the ones in the wrong.

This is a tactic that is used against women all the time. Any time a woman is sexually harassed at work or online, for example, and she gets upset about it, and someone chimes in with “oh they weren’t serious, can’t you take a joke?” So you can imagine what this is like for women of color.

It is a very, very common tactic for people of color to be silenced via tone policing and respectability politics. Tone policing and respectability politics are very closely related, especially in this context. The idea is that if Alyssa had just written that post in just the right way, it would have been more palatable to white people, and therefore okay to write. The idea that if she had tried to be “understanding” or “see it from their perspective” or understand that it’s “just a joke” are all ways to silence and de-legitimize any accurate, valid criticisms that were made of those tweets. It effectively re-routes the conversation away from the real issues, and to the person trying to bring them up. It’s essentially an ad hominem attack in disguise. 

We see respectability politics in media when people of color who act or dress or speak like white people are afforded more respect. Or any time that a person of color is pulled over and people say, “well if they had just done what the police officer asked...” There is a pervasive idea that if people just “act” properly, aka if you act white, then the police won’t feel antagonized and try to kill arrest you. If we are nice enough, meek enough, smile enough, etc. then we will be accepted.

When we tone police, we refuse to allow marginalized people the right to be angry. We say that "hey, we can only have this discussion if you leave emotion, which you rightfully feel, at the door, and we can only continue this discussion if you behave in a way that makes me feel comfortable." But guess what? It isn’t about you! These discussions are often highly uncomfortable. There is no nice way to tell someone they are being racist. And yet somehow, that is the ever-moving goalpost. It seems reasonable, right? “Just be civil, be nice, don’t insult each other!” And there is that. But those criteria change constantly, to the point where anyone (white) at any time can say “WHOA WHOA THIS IS MAKE ME UNCOMFORTABLE???” Then we find ourselves at zero, and suddenly the focus of attention has shifted away from the actual problem.

Before we go further, I want to say this: people have a right to be angry. They do not need to make their anger palatable or tasteful for the consumption of others (read: white people). 

We saw this last summer, and I’m not sure how the message didn’t get across. But people are rightfully angry about racism. They are angry about the murder of people of color by police, they are angry about lack of quality education, or clean water, of centuries of oppression that have led to this very moment when all of that ceases to matter because a white woman’s feelings got hurt one time. 

And that is what pisses me off so much. There is no way in this world that we could criticize tweets like those that everyone would agree with, and that everyone would “approve” of, that would be “nice” enough and yet still be impactful and make the authors of those tweets understand the gravity of what they have done. 

The least we can do is allow one another to express our anger, our outrage, because it’s highly likely that those people know exactly what the fuck they are doing, and they do not fucking care. By criticizing a woman of color for the way in which she chose to engage with this topic, we are avoiding the issue and letting the people in those tweets off the hook. 

There were many responses to that post that were positive, that agreed with Alyssa. There are a ton of people who disagree with those tweets, who find them disgusting, who understand exactly how and why they are problematic. That should be what we are talking about. Getting to the core of the argument, on that post or any about racism or other problematic behavior in fandom, requires getting past our own egos. It requires us to be able to step back, say “hm this thing is frustrating but there is a bigger picture here”. It’s not easy, and I recognize that. 

The fact that it is a common tactic though? To say “hey this hurt me personally and so I’m going to ignore any valid points you made?” That feeds directly into centuries of white supremacy because it, once again, silences POC and makes them try to play a losing game. And they will always lose, because no matter how hard they try to play the white game, the goalposts are constantly shifting. So you know what? Fuck the game, and fuck respectability politics, and fuck tone policing and “uwu be nice guys” because when it comes to things like racism and sexism, I don’t expect the people who deserve to be criticized to be nice. In fact, trying to be nice only serves to fuck POC over in the end.

Indeed, in response to that post, certain blogs have taken the opportunity to position themselves as “the nice ones” or “the ones who would never” or “uwu let’s be nice guys” while completely ignoring the fact that a woman of color was attacked for calling out racism. And yes - that was the point of her post. People getting hung up on mentions of her degree are (intentionally or not, it doesn’t matter) completely obfuscating the fact that that is not what her post was about, which was to call out disgusting behavior. idk how many words the post actually was, but essentially, people are focusing on 5% of it to the detriment of the 95% that was actually really important shit. These types of vagueblog posts about the issue fall into exactly what I am talking about - these are people who have decided to look at this issue, see how Alyssa (and anyone else who dares speak up) has approached it, and intentionally try to act like they are “better” because they can be “rational” and “kind”. Newsflash, if you don’t have something to be angry about, then being “nice” about racism isn’t that much of a flex. If it didn’t bother you, then congratulations. That doesn’t make you better than people it did bother. You just got lucky this time, and decided to use that to your advantage to look like the good guy.

I am not saying that all calls for peace are doing this. Obviously it’s what we all want. This is the worst I have seen this fandom in the 4+ years I’ve been here. But we cannot have that by ignoring the real problems and pretending that if we are all just nice to each other, then we will solve racism and sexism and all bullying in the fandom will stop. 

So combining all of this - the gaslighting, the tone policing, and what do you get? You get a fandom that refuses to actually engage critically with its own problems and take accountability for them. You get a fandom that decides that it’s easier to be distracted by this one mean comment over here than it is to engage in the fact that you know what, the culture in this fandom has actually turned incredibly disgusting and a lot of people are just okay with it. You’ve got a fandom that is using the tools of white supremacy to avoid the discussions that should actually be taking place. Maybe people don’t realize that that’s what they are doing. But if someone still thinks that after reading this post, then godspeed my friend, I hope you enjoy Twitter.

Okay so my last thing I want to say is that I didn’t come to all of this knowledge fresh from the womb. I do a lot of work, in my personal life and my professional life, to be better. So here is a list of books that I have found particularly helpful:

How to Be An Antiracist by Ibram X. Kendi

Stamped From the Beginning: The Definitive History of Racist Ideas in America also by Ibram X. Kendi

White Fragility: Why It’s So Hard for White People to Talk About Racism by Robin DiAngelo (side note, I was kinda meh about this one but the chapter “White Women’s Tears” is particularly helpful)

So You Want to Talk About Race by Ijeoma Oluo

Black Feminist Thought: Knowledge, Consciousness, and the Politics of Empowerment by Patricia Hill Collins

I’m not going to talk specifically about Alyssa’s post anymore, but if anyone wants to continue talking about these broader issues going on in the fandom, I am game. (I really should be grading papers though, so it might take a bit.)

#cw racism #acotar #acosf #acotar fandom #fandom wank #fandom things #this is the long post i mentioned earlier #i will link it in my meta post

[iheartbookbran]

Ok so actually my biggest problem with the whole “Daenerys will burn KL” theory—not even the Mad Queen Dany theory, which is of course very sexist for obvious reasons, but just like, the idea that Dany will ~accidentally~ ignite the wildfire in the city, burning it all to the ground. That, at first, doesn’t sound that bad, but the longer I think about it the more I hate it because tbh it doesn’t do anything for her character? And also… that fate for her is just down right cruel.

Like, the most frequent argument I see on why this would be at all satisfactory for Dany’s arc is basically that it would be a sort of lesson for her about the dangers of unchecked power and the real threat the Dragons can pose on humans and that she shouldn’t use them to fight against other people. And that’s all well and good, excellent message… except that’s not something Dany’s ever really needed to learn? Not anymore that her fellow rulers, which I will touch on more detail later, but in general Dany has seen what the abuse of power can do. Starting with her conflicting feelings regarding Viserys and how she recognizes that even though he was her brother and she loved him, he also abused his power over her as her older brother, her only family and her king; she feels guilt about the atrocities Drogo committed to the lhazarene and tries to help them; she feels so much guilt about not handling things correctly in Astapor that she decides to throw away all her plans to go to Westeros and instead stays in Meereen.

And about not knowing the true danger that her dragons can pose? I mean, this is the same girl that literally agonizes across several of her ADWD chapters because Drogon killed a child, and then takes the extreme measure of caging Rhaegal and Viserion to prevent that from ever happening again. I think she’s at least a little bit aware that the dragons can be dangerous, thank you very much.

Ok so this got long...

Anyways, the only time Dany legit uses Drogon to harm someone and not just as bluff was at the house of the Undying, where she was being attacked, and in Astapor… and like, lmao, that asshole Kraznys mo Nakloz and the rest of his slaver buddies deserved it. Don’t at me. Also, Dany’s hardly the only one with a big magical and deadly beast at her disposal, why didn’t Robb had to go through some horrifying traumatic incident to learn he shouldn’t use Grey Wind in battle to tear his enemies’ throats. Bran will be learning about the dangers of abusing power, but that’s linked to his magic powers and an actual reprehensible thing he’s doing, not the use of his glorified prehistoric dog to kill, which he’s done, just like Robb. By all means let the narrative hold Dany accountable for her mistakes… but her actual mistakes and not shit she has no control over, because she doesn’t have much control over Drogon or the other dragons even though she’s trying to, and that’s very obvious in her last ADWD chapter where she’s delirious and Drogon could kill her at any moment, and she knows that.

The other big argument people make for Dany burning KL (even if it’s by accident!) is that it will teach her about the price of war, that someone as young as her shouldn’t be leading armies and conquering kingdoms, and that fighting for the Iron Throne is not a worthy cause, and I feel like that misses the actual point of her story by a mile. First of all because a) Dany is hardly the only teenage ruler in the story and b) this is a fantasy medieval story, a lot of the characters shouldn’t be doing the things they do, aaaand yet. Also speaking of other teenage rulers with far more power that they should have—Robb and Jon, being the biggest examples.

Granted, Robb and Jon aren’t exactly successful during their time as rulers, they’re literally betrayed and killed by their own men (even if Jon will technically come back for round 2 of bullshit he’s too tired for). But the moral of their stories is not that they lost because theirs was an unworthy cause and they were stupid kids wholly unprepared for their roles. And I actually partially agree! They are just kids, including Dany, and they shouldn’t be responsible for looking after so many others and going to battle, but their cause is still just and worthy, even with all the mistakes they make along the way. Robb didn’t loose because he was wrong in demanding justice for his family or trying to protect the riverlands from the Lannisters and their minions, he lost because Tywin Lannister was a giant coward who couldn’t take him out in a fair fight.

Likewise, it isn’t wrong of Jon to try to incorporate refugees from beyond the Wall into Westeros. He’s not too stupid and honorable to do politics like his father (how I hate when people insult Jon and Ned like that), and while he did some very obvious mistakes that inevitably ended in a coup and in him dying, this is more connected to his inability to let go of his ties with his family (mainly Arya or who he believes to be her), and in isolating himself from his friends and the people he could actually trust.

I’ve always thought that Dany and Jon share a parallel narrative within the story, so while Jon is struggling with that Dany is faced with similar problems. She cages her dragons, that to her represent the only family she has left, and she tries to compromise with the slavers, marry a man she doesn’t love, pretend she’s ok with reopening the fighting pit. While she tries her best to rule wisely in Meereen, it all comes at the cost of betraying herself and her beliefs, so it’s no surprise when it all crashes around her and she’s betrayed and nearly killed. Ironically, it is Drogon who comes to rescue her.

If they are monsters, so am I.—Daenerys II, ADWD.

This is hands down one of my favorite Dany quotes from the whole series, and I hate that it’s been given such a negative connotation in the fandom, when for me it represents Dany’s humanity and compassion at the fullest.

GRRM has a knack for humanizing the ‘monsters’ of his story, for showing the good in the outcasts and the ugly and the scary. He embraces their ‘otherness’ and makes them the heroes of his stories; Arya, Bran, Brienne, Dany, Tyrion, Jon, Theon and many others are all compared to monsters or beasts at one point or another in the books.

Dany sees herself in her dragons, literal monsters in every sense of the word. Later on she faces Drogon inside the pit, and in that moment you could say that she accepts that ‘monstrous’ part of her, and in doing so she’s saved from her fate of dying at the hands of the men who would crucify innocent children and gleefully profit off of the suffering of their fellow human beings while watching them fight each other to the death for their own amusement. Now tell me who’s the real monster in this situation.

But shortly before that happens, Dany is able to see the humanity in Tyrion, an outcast who has been branded as monstrous and unlovable due to his disability all his life, a man who has come to believe in his abusers’ rhetoric about him so strongly that he’s started to act cruel and detached. She saves his life. She sees value in his life when few others would, because she cares.

I’ve always find it funny that the “dragons plant no trees” is—another—example fans use to argue in favor of Dany’s descent into Darkness™ because the actual scene goes like this:

You are a queen, her bear said. In Westeros.

"It is such a long way," she complained. "I was tired, Jorah. I was weary of war. I wanted to rest, to laugh, to plant trees and see them grow. I am only a young girl."

No. You are the blood of the dragon. The whispering was growing fainter, as if Ser Jorah were falling farther behind. Dragons plant no trees. Remember that. Remember who you are, what you were made to be. Remember your words.—Daenerys X, ADWD.

Now am I the only one who finds it at least a bit relevant that it’s freaking Jorah Mormont aka Jorah the Enslaver whom Dany’s subconscious, at her literal lowest moment, utilizes to represent this particular thought, which btw I’ve always interpreted as Dany’s own self-loathing manifesting in her, and this is something she’s actually always struggled with—the idea that she’s not enough and she’s failing. Because above all things, even Westeros or the Iron Throne, what Dany wants is peace, she wants to plant trees.

When Dany made her descent, Reznak and Skahaz dropped to their knees. "Your Worship shines so brightly, you will blind every man who dares to look upon you," said Reznak. […] This match will save our city, you will see."

"So we pray. I want to plant my olive trees and see them fruit." Does it matter that Hizdahr's kisses do not please me? Peace will please me. Am I a queen or just a woman?—Daenerys VII, ADWD.

But of course the world doesn’t work like that, and so long as there’s Jorahs and Tywins and Eurons out there, men who would take the freedom of humans and submit them to their will, Dany can’t have the luxury of peace, just like Jon can’t have the luxury of belonging and family so long as there’s people still beyond the Wall who need his protection.

And I think that’s fine. It’s fine that Dany failed, it will help her develop as a character and realize that there’s no room to compromise with slavers, the metaphorical monsters of the story who do far more harm than the other more literal ‘monsters’ of the story. So that when she has to face down Euron Greyjoy—who btw, there’s a high chance he will end up stealing one of Dany’s dragons via Victarion using Dragonbinder… y’know, as in enslaving one of her children and using said dragon to inflict god knows what horrors, yet not many people ever consider this for some reason?—she will know. When she has to face down the Others, the magical ice fairies with no regard for human life, she will know.

That’s why I believe that it would make absolutely no sense for Dany to have to go through such a tragic and traumatic experience like burning a whole city even by pure accident, over something that’s either never been a problem with her character or she’s well into her way of learning anyways, so it would just feel repetitive. As I have pointed out, she’s already reached one of the lowest moments of her arc. Not saying there will be no other blows for her, and probably the destruction of KL will be one of them, and knowing Dany she will feel responsibility over it no matter what, but that doesn’t mean she has to be the culprit, intentional or otherwise.

#yes i wrote this whole thing because i actually love the ‘if they are monsters so am i’ quote and i’m trying to push my agenda on others #jk i spend like half a minute in an anti dany blog and i was like. war #but i don’t regret it so #daenerys targaryen #stormborn #pro daenerys #asoiaf #asoiaf meta #a song of ice and fire #valyrianscrolls #meta #my meta

[olderthannetfic]

Hi I’ve been wrestling with smtg for a bit( aka several years) and I honestly wasnt sure where to even start a convo for this and then I saw a brief mention in the comments so here I am. Im like a big Cassandra Clare fan(i am starting to outgrow her stuff but i still read for like past me’s sake) havent gotten into reading fanfic (for another fandom) until lets say recent years like a year ago, and then well like any person who obsesses over smtg i also learned stuff about the author that sounded well, like she wasnt exactly the nicest person. Especially when it came to how she started as a fanfic writer. Im confused though: the way people kinda like say, oh supporting her is bad ya know cuz of how she was kinda shitty (im being vague cuz any time i tried to look up actual like proof i just got angry sounding articles and i wasnt sure if that was like good enough??) and I look at her material now that I personally find relatable(Izzy was the first character I looked at and thought: oh its okay to be feminine AND badass? More context: my part of the world was/ is INCREDIBLY sexist) and I found so much joy in and very much like all the lgbt rep I found in it, people are still referring back to how shes horrible and im just like: i feel like i missed out on smtg everyone knew once but idk where to look to even get more info.

Anyway I mentioned how recently I got into fanfic because until I started following your blog I didnt know all the history behind it and that started to help me figure out some things about how some authors started out.

I dont expect anyone to like gimme a list or smtg like: oh this person is bad bcuz X. Im just wondrring like: why am i constantly told I shouldnt like cassandra clare? when they’ve done so much good for me. (I dont mean to think my experience is the only one or anything either ofc)

I dont mean to come off like im in denial or maybe I am idk i really just dont know where to go for this convo cuz i absolutely want to have it

--

You want my honest answer? Butthurt.

Cassie has gotten many, many chances that other people would have liked, and she has gotten them on the basis of whom she knows, from her publishing contract to her film and tv deals. People don't feel she earned those chances, and they are bitter as fuck. For example, her books got made into a film. It bombed. And then, unlike in most other cases, they went on and made a tv series of the same material. I think a lot of people look at her and see a charmed life, and it disgusts them either out of pure jealousy or because she was always kind of a douchbag.

Cassie's an asshole, but her "crimes" are so incredibly minor compared to Hollywood creeps or even compared to JKR. If you want to keep liking her books, you do you.

--

Now, as for what her "crimes" actually are, they boil down to fandom interpersonal drama, gross e-begging (kind of), and plagiarism.

She got her ass kicked off of FFN for copying lines and even whole chunks from other media and putting them in her HP fic without attribution. She later tried to excuse this by saying her fans were playing 'spot the reference', but I saw fans quoting 'her" lines all the time and not realizing they were borrowed.

She did actually plagiarize. Whether you think this is the crime to end all crimes is another story.

"Laptopgate" and the time fandom bought her an iPod are probably second most serious. CC's apartment was burgled, and she and her roommates lost some computers and things. She didn't directly ask her followers for money, but she didn't have to. A little crying on social media and some active organizing by her friend, and fandom coughed up a whole bunch of money. Something similar happened when she wanted an iPod.

This really doesn't seem like a big deal, does it? The reason it bugged people was that it was pretty obvious she had a lot more resources than many of the people donating. She could have asked her family for help replacing the laptops. I found the whole thing a bit tacky in both cases and thought she sounded like she was fishing for the iPod even if she didn't directly ask her fans to buy it for her, but this is hardly the stuff of undying scandal.

The real reason people remember laptopgate is that a fan with a medical fundraiser tried to get CC's friend to signal boost them, and the friend was dismissive. I do think she handled it poorly. It was also a time when e-begging was a lot rarer than now and when signal boosting was more than just clicking reblog. How much any of that was CC's fault is open to interpretation.

CC was also the unwitting dupe of fandom's most famous con artist, Msscribe, a bully who went after whole swaths of Harry Potter fandom. CC wasn't directly at fault, but her fame and popularity helped this other asshole operate unimpeded. It left a lot of fans disgusted with that whole social circle.

Beyond that, there's a vast list of minor bullshit. CC acted like a celebrity and lorded it over her fellow fans. She pitted her sycophants against each other. She was--and as far as I can tell stayed--an entitled, self-important whiner. Her crying about Shadowhunters not following her derivative biphobic trash books more closely was hilarious, for example. Cry moar about how your boring self insert got sidelined for a better character!

She has some one-off story I remember people being pissed about that is basically her pulling a Not Like The Other Girls and shitting on fandom nerds--or at least, that's how people took it.

CC has also spent a lot of time talking behind people's backs and being a catty bitch--possibly even a bully. But that kind of thing is hard to prove. It's all down to how different people remember and interpret various incidents, and a lot of the people she was shitty to are also major drama queens who don't always inspire much sympathy.

If you stopped reading every author who was rude or self-important at some point, you wouldn't have much left to read.

--

OTW, which runs AO3, also runs a fandom history wiki. You can look CC up there. I think it covers most of the major stuff, including a rumor I had totally forgotten about about her ~doxxing a minor~. (That was Flourish who explains the whole thing themself, and CC did nothing of the sort.)

https://fanlore.org/wiki/Cassandra_Claire

CC's major crime has always been being a privileged jerk. People see her as a Rich Mean Girl and one of us who thinks she's somehow too good for the rest of us. Except, now, she's also a famous author and not really One Of Us anymore. That's why it's so difficult for people to articulate the problem.

I think her work does have some shitty messages, but for me to engage deeply with them, I'd have to go read the whole thing instead of just chortling at a few horrible metaphors and reading other people's salt. Life's too short for that!

Go forth, nonnie, and read the teen books of your heart. CC isn't problematic in a way where you should refuse to give her money.

[zelzenik]

a huge informal essay on being biracial and shipping zutara

ok genuinely i’m so tired of this. so, so tired of this. obviously not all biracial people are the same, and we have our own experiences/histories based on our own racial identities, but a lot of the biracial ZK friends that i’ve made via tumblr/ao3 have the same or similar opinions that i do, and we are TIRED. that being said, i’m not speaking for all biracial people, but i’m speaking from a place of personal experience.

those who headcanon Fire Lady Katara are not inherently in the wrong. those who do not headcanon Fire Lady Katara are ALSO not inherently in the wrong either. there are racist/sexist ways to execute this headcanon, the same way there are with literally every other headcanon. those who attack this trope, though, need to evaluate themselves because the reasons they give are often sexist and racist (ironically lol).

i’m literally half Asian (from a country that was heavily colonized by other Asian countries). did my Asian parent have to give up their Asian culture in order to be with my non-Asian parent? NO. did my Asian parent have to give up their Asian identity in order to be with my non-Asian parent? NO. did the presence of my non-Asian parent completely erase all the harmful racism my Asian parent experienced growing up? OF COURSE NOT.

i’ve read a LOT of ZK fic over the past few months, and i can say that i’ve read most, if not all, of the major Fire Lady Katara fics that exist within the fandom, and i cannot name a single one where Katara is forced to give up her culture in favor of Zuko’s. even in various ZK art pieces that feature Fire Lord Zuko and Fire Lady Katara, Katara often has Water Tribe furs and symbols incorporated with her regalia, and sometimes ZUKO does too. my non-Asian parent wears the traditional dress of my Asian parent’s culture when the situation calls for it, and my Asian parent does the same. (and that’s just an example with clothing - there are tons more applicable situations). interracial relationships are (under most circumstances) a blending of all the cultures present, and often, incorporating the other’s culture into daily life is an act of love. my non-Asian parent LOVES my Asian parent’s culture and does everything in their power to respect it, cherish it, and help my Asian parent to pass it down to their children (like me, lol). i can’t imagine Zuko not doing the same for Katara. 

similarly with the above point, i can’t recall any Fire Lady Katara fic where Katara’s racial identity gets erased in favor of Zuko’s. just because those fics tend to occur in the Fire Nation doesn’t mean that she’s... not Water Tribe anymore. just because my Asian parent does not live in an Asian country doesn’t make them any less Asian. i’m not spending much time on this point because it literally doesn’t make sense.

i do think that it’s important to mention, though, that Zuko’s presence in Katara’s life does not erase the way the Fire Nation hurt her. that hurt will likely always exist because those types of wounds go deep. but at the end of the day, they’re both two PEOPLE. they’re Katara and Zuko. the same way that Indians marry British people or Koreans marry Japanese people, people from the Water Tribe can marry those in the Fire Nation. to imply that a marriage couldn’t occur between someone from the Fire Nation and someone else from the Water Tribe is stupid because it happens all the time in the real world.

i honestly think it’s really stupid that some SJWs act as though they’re doing non-white or biracial or multiracial people a favor by attacking a headcanon that was created and has been largely supported by those who are oppressed in the real world bc of their race. obviously the Fire Lady Katara trope isn’t for everyone, but to imply that it’s racist and sexist while tearing down the POCs who headcanon it? really? don’t get me wrong, i LOVE Katara (i would do anything for her, no lie), but how is attacking real POCs better than defending imaginary ones? sorry not sorry, but that’s stupid.

the Fire Lady Katara trope has the potential to grant Katara with tons of agency, not only within her relationship with her significant other, but also with the country that HURT her (so she can prove any of the prejudiced Fire Nation people the hell wrong and provide protection for the Water Tribe in a post-war world). 

and going a step further, personally, i identify heavily with Zutara Steambabies (as i know a bunch of my other biracial ZK friends do) because of the intricacy behind their racial identities. a Fire Nation and Water Tribe union WOULD be complicated due to the countries’ histories together, but that doesn’t make it impossible. love CAN be born despite broken histories and deep-set prejudices. that’s part of what makes Zutara so beautiful, in my opinion. 

finally, i don’t know what people are on when they attack mostly only Zutara for these sort of headcanons. don’t y’all realize that 85% of all the canon/fanon ships within the ATLA-verse are interracial?? K*taang is interracial. Sukka is interracial. Taang is interracial. Z*kka is interracial. Jetko is interracial. Azutara is interracial. Jue is interracial. Tokka is interracial. Jetara is interracial. Ty Lokka is interracial. Jinko is interracial. (I COULD GO ON). y’all are straight CLOWNING if you only come for Zutara shippers on the grounds that we’re being racist and sexist for having a headcanon like Fire Lady Katara. don’t be a hypocrite.

additionally, just because you’re poc or biracial or multiracial does not mean that you can’t be racist. so many of the people who attack this headcanon pull the “i’m biracial!” or “i’m a poc!” card. I’M NOT HAVING IT. it’s okay if the trope isn’t for you! you’re free to headcanon whatever you want. to be blatantly racist to other poc or biracial or multiracial ppl who headcanon, though, it is wrong. we already catch enough flack irl for being what we are without people attacking us in our fandom spaces too.

that being said, i love Zutara deeply. for me, as a biracial person, it’s a comfort ship. a bunch of kids posting and mistagging salt regarding our headcanons isn’t gonna change that, lol.

#zutara #biracial #proud to be biracial #salt #atla fandom salt #atla salt #this is just for the record #cuz it has to be said #idc if anyone reads this #it felt good to say #idek if all this is clear but #i again don't care #throwing thoughts in the text editor and callin it a day #this isn't really a meta #but #yk whatever #fake meta #interracial #interracial ships #zel meta

[into-september]

on the feminist merits of MLB

The real reason I'm not out there saving the world is because I can't let go of idiocy online. But, as I said in the post preceeding this, I managed not to give more hits to whoever it was that felt that the world needed a fifty minute video essay about the sexism of Miraculous: The Adventures of Ladybug and Cat Noir. But good god if I didn't stare into the ceiling thinking about this when I went to bed.

To be clear: This isn't a reply to any specific essay or rant about the misguided feminist ideas or lacking gender equality in Miraculous Ladybug. The specific video that set this off is one that I didn't see, and the rest of this is addressing issues I've seen touted by more than one person in more than one forum. I'm not talking to you personally. I'm getting this off my chest because Jesus tap-dancing Christ, if people are going to insist that Miraculous either

a) is bad feminism

or

b) is outright sexist

then I need this to exist somewhere.

I. SO WHAT MAKES IT FEMINIST ANYWAY. The only study google coughed up about gender representation in cartoons was from 1995, so I'm not going there. I'm also not going to talk much from experience, because the only western TV animation for children I've consumed since then has been MLB, LoK, and the new Ducktales. For all I know, Steven Universe truly made today's children's TV a utopia of equality. Even so, the kids growing up on these cartoons will inevitably have to face an adult entertainment market where that is very much not the norm.

According to the 2018 stats of the 100 highest grossing Hollywood films (https://womenandhollywood.com/resources/statistics/2018-statistics/, which collects stats from several surveys and also supplies a lot of numbers on race, LGBT and disability presence)

Only 33.1% of all speaking or named characters were girls/women.

Only 9% of the movies gender-balanced casts.

You'll probably also want to look into the study of 2000 screenplays over at (https://pudding.cool/2017/03/film-dialogue/index.html), which compares the number of lines spoken by male characters contra those spoken by women. Here's a nugget: The only Disney Princess film where women have more lines than men is Sleeping Beauty.

I'm going to assume that most people reading this will agree that that ain't right. The stories dominating our popular culture, are stories that overwhelmingly focus on only one group of people, which creates the unfortunate subtext that Straight White Men are representatives of the universal human condition, and that anything that isn't about them, is only interesting for the special interest groups. I'm not going to explain to you why this is a problem, and why this means that we - as a global society - need stories that are about the others.

In the context those numbers, there mere act of telling stories about women is itself an act of feminism.

This, of course, comes with the caveat that these stories about women are not all stories about women being evil harpies and-slash-or helpless victims who depend on men to save them and guide them through a big and scare world. What we need, is the stories that remind us that women - and people who aren't white, and people who aren’t cis, and people who aren't fully abled, and people who don't love heterosexually - are people. That those of us who aren't straight white men are people who are just as messy, just as brave, just as stupid, just as strong.

So let's talk Marinette Dupain-Cheng.

II. CAUSE THE LADY IS A MESS I cannot imagine what kind of arguments people make against Marinette being a feminist character, so this is me making assumptions based on the common complaints being thrown around by the fandom.

First: Marinette is clearly not your classical "un-feminist" female character. She's not a poisonous gossip, she's not a damsel in distress, she's not a fainting maiden. Marinette is skilled, strong-willed, brave. Marinette is also caring, and generous, and smart. She does, in short, posess a number of qualities which make her not only a good person, but a person capable of shaping her own story.

But Marinette is also a mess. Adorably clumsiness aside, the beating heart of MLB is the three different relationships existing between Marinette and Adrien, and Marinette does not deal well with all of them. The Ladynoir dynamic is an aching, bittersweet mess of unrequited love (which isn't Marinette's fault), Ladrien is adorable and hilarious and also a catastrophe, and we all know what Marinette and Adrien are. Marinette loves him to despair, but she keeps on sabotaging herself. Not by being tongue-tied (he clearly doesn't mind), but by her inability of telling him so to his face. Everyone knows how highly Adrien thinks of her; there can be little doubt that if Marinette hadn’t repeatedly denied any romantic interest to his face, the girl he'd go for when giving up on Ladybug wouldn't be Kagami.

Speaking of Kagami: She serves as another illustration of Marinette's bad sides, and of Marinette's good sides. Because Marinette isn't only prone to self-doubt driving her into hysteria, she's also prone to prejudices. She jumped to conclusions about both Adrien and Kagami and she acted on these prejudices in ways that were ooooh, not good. Marinette's treatment of Kagami up until "Ikari Gozen" is not that of a girl who is open-minded and stands up for justice - they are the actions of a girl who has decided that a person she's barely interacted with Must Be Bad And Deserves To Be Scheemed Against. Marinette is petty! But when she realises that she's misjudged people - Adrien, Kagami, even Chloé - Marinette is also the girl who makes amends. She throws Chloé a party, she actively befriends the awkward girl she's previously mistreated - and ultimately, she gives up on the boy she loves for Kagami's sake, too.

Marinette Dupain-Cheng is a girl who is awesome, but she's not a girl who is flawless. She might be the somewhat overpowered one in our lead duo, but on the question of who is the better person, there can be no doubt that Adrien deals with hardship and disappointment in far more constructive ways than she does. In an inversion of the classical dynamic of female characters acting as the emotional guardians of the male heroes, it is Adrien who sets the example of how a kind and compassionate person would act. 

(Also: Please stop with the ~toxic stalker~ talk. This is a show where Gen Z kids unironically stan Gen X music, where Marinette's own parents hilariously believe Lila's BS, where a fire constable takes twenty minutes to help a middle schooler construct a trash can tower so that she can spy on her crush, where the mayor of Paris has quasi-autocratic powers AND THERE ARE MAGICAL SUPERHEROES AND PARIS HAS ITS OWN SPACE PROGRAMME. The insistence that it needs to deliver realistic psychology in ONE SPECIFIC CASE stinks of underlying motives. Either that, or people really should look up the narrative concept of "tone". Marinette being OTT hung up on Adrien isn’t “creepy” in context, it is right on brand for the show’s comedy)

III. SOMETHING SOMETHING TOXIC MASCULINITY I GUESS To repeat myself: the show makes absolutely zero secrets about the fact that Marinette is a more important character than Adrien. Cat Noir is in the title, but the show’s logo and marketing material is all ladybird-themed, and every sodding episode opens with Marinette telling the audience who she is and making it blatantly, indisputably clear that this is the story about her life. It should surprise absolutely no-one that in Marinette’s story about Marinette’s life, Marinette is the focal character and most of the narrative focus is on Marinette. 

And I'm gonna say it:

It's okay that Ladybug is more important than Cat Noir.

Adrien is my favourite character, but I love that it is Marinette who is equipped with the power to save the day. After a childhood full of stories where the boys were cool and the girls where there, I guess, I love that Marinette is the guardian, that Marinette has done what no other miraculous wielder has done, that Marinette has not only saved the city but SAVED THE WORLD, SINGELHANDEDLY.

Because as the MCU alone should sufficiently illustrate, the world is not lacking in stories about men saving the world, about men being ridiculously overpowered, about men kicking ass and taking names and making sacrifices. The magical girl genre exists, but I'm pretty sure that Sailor Moon is the only title making any kind of global impact among the target audience. That was twenty-five years ago, now. When we're still living in the context of the above numbers regarding narrative attention, we can deal with a few more stories where women are marginally more important than men.

I won’t go into the topic of whether or not it is ~sexist~ that Ladybug is more important than Cat Noir - I've talked about it here, at length.

But I'll leave you with this: Like girls need to hear the stories about how their actions are important and how their decisions can change the world, boys need to hear the stories about how it's okay to not always be the big hero. It's okay to follow someone else's lead, it's okay to let someone else carry the world upon their shoulders, and instead be the one who supports them. Frodo wouldn’t have gotten far without Sam. You can be important and indisposable even if you're not the one calling the shots and kicking the hardest ass.

Because Marinette didn't save the world singlehandedly in "Cat Blanc". She could only save it because enough of Adrien's goodness remained for him to pull his punches, to aim his attacks wrong, and all but tell her where his akuma was.

#mlb meta #ml meta #miraculous ladybug #blah #marinette dupain-cheng #girl power #fandom

[dannyboyzone]

Why these Lookism Bad Guys are liked, a rant by me

Alright, so I have came across a post talking about how Johan is hated on despite being a "bad person", and trashing other characters for absolutely no reason other than guilt tripping people. I personally think the post is immature, but due to my own personality and mental state, it has still got me kind of pressed, because it all sounds ridiculous. This post will be about some people in Lookism that are viewed as a bad people and or are hated on, and why I think they are liked. I won't speak for everybody liking these characters, and it will include some characters that I hate. This post is just to give a general idea for people who are really ignorant about why some characters might receive love. You might have come across that post, and if not, I am talking about this one below. - Well, only a small part of it, that threw me off. -

I didn't include the person's username out of respect and also so they don't feel attacked or anything of the sort.

Before starting this off, there are a few things I would like to say. If I sound petty, I truly don't care. I never saw anybody hating on Johan, at max maybe give criticism, I also don't hate Johan or try to disvalidate anyone's feelings, just get some things straight. Liking someone's looks does not immediately mean you are attracted to them, neither does liking the person's look you are attracted to mean you are toxic. It means you are loving. If you like someone's personality, you will find them beautiful consciously or subconsciously. If someone finds a character handsome, it is not a crime, people have types and preferences, and if they do it's none of your business. Hating good looking people doesn't make you woke, neither hating on people who are attracted to good looking people. What are you, Crystal Choi? And yes, people will be attracted to looks, it's a normal human act. People will notice if they find someone more attractive or unattractive which is not a bad thing. What is a bad thing when they start treating people different because of it. I assure you, most of the lookism fandom that I have came across doesn't do that.

This post will not include Seong Yohan because I never saw him get hated and I don't think nobody knows where he is coming from.

Samuel Seo

Yeah, so what seemed to be a surprise for me is that not a lot of people like Samuel, or at least understand why the people liking him would. Now, I personally feel no romantic attachment towards him. - Which is yes, normal, even if he is fictional. It's called fictophilia and I better see no judgement about it. - However, I do love Samuel a lot, and would love to care for him and grow a strong bond. To me, Samuel is not a monster. At all, believe me, Samuel isn't liked only for his looks. For me, personally, I love him so much because I can relate to him. I absolutely hated him at first, but grew to love him because he is human. He is complex, has a hard life and isn't perfect. That's exactly why I love him, and someone else I really adore does too. Yes sure, as you grow to like someone's personality, you find them handsome and or pretty. It's so much easier to say someone is pretty than to say, 'Hey, I love this person because they helped me go through so much.' Not everyone has the same love language, not everyone is comfortable with blunt affection. Besides, Samuel can and will achieve anything he wants. He has SO much sides to himself, not just 'good looking violent guy with big tits'. That's not Samuel at all. Besides, if PTJ oversexualises him, it's hard to not notice his body.

Yes sure, Samuel hits women, but I personally, don't f%cking care. Your vagina doesn't define if you deserve violence or not, your behaviour and the person's you face personality does. I am personally someone that doesn't mind violence as long as the person deserved it, because some scumbags in this world do. If they happen to be a woman, that's not on me, they shouldn't have done whatever they did. If you are not a violent person, I am not even sorry to tell you this, but you are probably sexist. It's not like all women are fragile and unable to get hit. Besides, if his violence is the problem, why is it fine that he hits men? Because men can handle it? According to statistics women have a higher pain tolerance. By your logic, you should call him out for hitting anyone in his way. Stop acting like hitting women is a necessarily bad thing, start saying that hitting innocent people is a bad thing.

If you must hate on him, maybe use the fact that he killed his abusive and neglective parents. Don't give a hard time to others for liking him though.

Ahn JongGun

Does Gun seem like a bad guy? Absolutely, he has done some horrible things. Then why do we like him? Because he seems to have a smaller character development coming, he has so many things to him and he is an absolutely incredible and complex character. I am very curious of his background and what caused him to be so violent and yet so calm. I like him because he allows himself to be human. From his religion, to his knowledge of material arts, to his adoration towards Vasco's material arts teacher - I forgot his name, so excuse me for that -, to his attention to details, to his fashion sense, it all makes him human. It's nice to see someone be a human, instead of just 'hot guy' or 'villain'. He is a nice character that brings many depth to the story. I could list a hundred of reasons why I love him, and no, none of it is his "weird" fashion sense. I do find him incredibly stylish, I just think some people in this fandom don't understand fashion. - Oops, I guess. - My main reason to liking him is that he is most likely either bisexual or pansexual. That he has a crush on Daniel. I might seem like I have a weird fetish or something, or that I am a crazy "fangirl". That's not the case though. I am a part of the LGBTQ+ community, and while not huge, I adore the hell out of the representation. It's nice to see such a smart, elegant and powerful guy be the representation. Because he is a character that's not there simply to be gay and full of stereotypes. Like, no hard feelings if you fit into stereotypes, but as a person who doesn't fit into them, it's a refreshing thing to see someone that's allowed to have many sides to himself other than just 'the gay friend'. Of course I am sure there are a lot of people who have many other reasons to love him, like his endless knowledge of material arts. There is so many reasons to be interested in his character, and just because you can't see it that doesn't mean others are blind to it too.

Yeah, he might have slept with countless women, but the main reason you can't count it is because he never stated the amount of women he slept with, neither did anyone else. Sure, he did say that Daniel is better than any women he ever slept with, but for all you know that could have been 3. Even if, it doesn't matter. He could have slept with 3, or 70 women. It doesn't matter, because not everyone's sexual life will reflect your own. And other people's sexual life is none of your business. Sure, you can say it's only fiction, and that I am overreacting, but when it comes to such small or personal details, people tend to put their own personal view into it. It's really not fine to shame others for their sexual life. As long as he uses protection, and didn't make anyone pregnant and doesn't play with the feelings of anyone, who gives a f%ck.

Some people tend to lash out sexually if they experience trauma or stress, and no, I don't mean they go and r%pe people, I mean that they go and have sex with different people who give consent. Even if he doesn't do it because of that, why does it bother you so much? Sex isn't a disgusting act. Some people like it, some people don't. Whatever their decision is, as long as no one is hurt, you should respect their decision.

Kim JoonGoo

Alright, this got me f%cked up. Goo is such a good character, and no way he would ever cheat on his S/O. He has morals and a lot of good sense in himself. Sure, he might have said that Samuel will be his secret friend, which led OP to believing Goo would cheat, but that's... a terrible reason, in my opinion. Gun knows that Samuel works for Goo, and Goo owns up it too. Besides that, nothing, absolutely nothing would lead to the fact that Goo would cheat. Because he wouldn't.

Now, why do I like Goo, and why some other's might like him too. He is such a well put together character, unpredictable yet so simple. He damages people to a point they have to retire, doesn't get scared of murderer, is a money maniac and hates his boss. You would think, he is dirty and fits the "gangster" stereotypes. That's not the case at all. He is more hygienic than most of the characters of lookism, if not the most hygienic one. He hates drinking and smoking, doesn't have tattoos - not that there is anything wrong with that - and is incredibly patient.

He might be a money maniac sure, but his ability to control money so well the way he does just shows how high his IQ is. I find that amusing, since it's something hard to do. What I completely love to the moon and back about Goo is his creativity.

When he gets into fights, he is patient and maybe let's himself get hit a few times. That's a good thing because he has time to learn about what he is facing. I think that's neat, because not a lot of people think about that during fights, and he taught me to do that. Also, the way he harms people is very creative too, no matter how harsh that sounds. He stabs people with chopsticks, kicks people with a glass piece stuck in his shoe and harms people with a katana. It's all so unpredictable yet fits him so well. I really love the way he fights and handles situations because it tells so much about him. Also, he is so fun, who would do karaoke after beating a bunch of guys unconscious? Only your one and only Kim JoonGoo. He is such a fun person to study and to read about.

So, no, I will not put up with the bullsh%t that he would cheat on his s/o, because he is a very respectful and none judgemental person. Just because his fights look violent to you, and his friendship with Gun unstable, that doesn't mean he is a bad person. It just means he is different from you, and yeah, he does f%cked up things, I won't deny that. That's exactly what makes him an interesting character.

Xiaolong

Now, I personally don't like Xiaolong that much, so this will not come from heart, but a place of logic. For a disclaimer, I am not caught up on the latest chapters, because I want to binge read it.

Now, even though I do not like Xiaolung, I can see why other people would.

He is a responsible person, who takes good care of himself even though he has to look after Vivi 24/7. He is not only good in his job, but takes it very seriously too. He isn't afraid to take action to make sure his job is going smoothly, and that everything is on it's place. He would do anything to protect Vivi, which can be appealing to some.

And from what I saw from spoilers, he is very strong. No, admiring his strength does not make the person toxic or fragile. It means they find the place in their heart to appreciate the type of struggle and hard work he puts into it. He has an unique way of fighting, which I could only see a small portion of. However it's clear that he must be impressive. I completely understand if people find that neat.

Also, Xiaolong seems like such a f%cking loyal person. That's so incredibly important. A lot of people can find that appealing, for various reasons. I am aware there are poly people, or anything similar to that, but loyalty is so important for some people and can form a very deep sense of love.

Yeah, he might take care of Vivi when she is drugged and let her get away with drugs but consider this that's his job. He is payed to do that and swore to do his best in it, as it's very important to him.

Outro;

Yeah, I don't care, like who ever you want to and defend them, but if you drag down other characters and guilt trip people because of liking specific characters, you are not going to be "woke" or special. And I will find you, and e a t you. - For legal reasons, that's a joke. -

That is not the only post that I saw shame those characters and people who like them, but is the one that made me messed up.

This fandom absolutely loves shaming people if they love the character design and looks of their favourite character. Let me tell you something though; You are missing the point of the whole manhwa you are reading.

Finding people attractive and beautiful is completely normal. Treating them differently because of that is not. As far as I am concerned, I never saw any lookism fans hate on characters they find less attractive. - Rather on the attractive ones. -

People have a type and that applies to looks and personality. Literally everyone does, even if it's unconsciously.

If you want your favorite character to get more love, don't make other people's comfort characters look bad on purpose, because in their eyes they aren't simply the bad qualities you see in them. And if you highlight them at least make sure they are true or at least reasonable bad qualities.

Well yeah, that was my little rant. And I didn't even mention the psychological aspects of why each character is like, or in other words what people they might attract. Or, the difference kind of personal life experiences people had to go through to appreciate each kind of little detail about the characters.

Yeah, this is the end of my little rant. If this post will get actual mature answers and discussions, I will make a similar one for Vinjin, Logan, Olly and Jiho. Yeah, I hate all of them, but other people might not.

END

#lookism #외모지상주의

[thejudgingtrash]

THANK YOU for bringing up Hera’s treatment in pjo and in general myths. She deserved better characterization. I can’t really think of any myths Hera’s involved in where she is anything but victim of Zeus or lashing out at innocents. There’s plenty of negative, Sure, but Hera’s positive traits obviously EXIST bc otherwise why would people, especially women, have worshipped her back then? But just as her violent nagging sitcom wife character was favored by ancient men writing, rick follows that.

I hard agree anon.

I have to admit that I’m a strong Hera advocate and I feel that she’s largely misunderstood and misrepresented. Sometimes on purpose. Again, sexism. More on that later.

Yes, she did horrible deeds in consideration to hunting the affair products of her husband down. They’re innocent bystanders. But her hands are tied as she can’t directly punish Zeus because he is the higher-up in the pantheon. Flimsy excuse? Probably. But degrading her for feeling her pain? Shitty move, in my opinion. Also she’s one of many gods that did horrible things (from our modern point of view). There are few that (would’ve) acted better than her when it comes to revenge and rage.

Let’s be honest - who wouldn’t burst into tears and boiling anger when their partner arrives at home, says “Yeah, by the way I impregnated another woman,” and essentially gives it a thumbs up and pops some bubblegum?

Hera is one of the most important gods because her domains directly involve us. Family. Marriage. Women. The sky and the stars of heaven. Children. A certain type of love, if you want to say so. I interpret it that way. There’s a reason why her cult exists. Riordan could’ve done so so much and yet... he didn’t. And my question is simply why?

Tackling Greek myth is very difficult as tales and personas of the gods vary from each narrative and Greek culture. The way Riordan approached them just doesn’t give them proper representation as their fundamentals, their basis, pretty much lack from the get go, however. This is largely due to the world building as the PJO series touches on Greek myth aspects but really doesn’t dive into them. We’re supposed to follow Percy and co. and not necessarily the surroundings.  The monsters get a sorta better rep than the actual gods as they’re truly side characters and thus lack fundamental development. I mean, PJO started as a bedtime story for a little boy, so no wonder that monster slashing is a larger focal point.

I appreciate Riordan for trying, but he as someone who (I think) even taught about mythology in school, could’ve done a different approach. However, I’m getting off-track. Riordan wrote the goddesses in such a degrading and sexist manner while gods are essentially these cool dudes. I mean just look at how Poseidon got his “Shane Dawson docu-series revamp” in PJO. He went from rather cold and unapproachable to “dad of a year” in a book or two. I mean - how and why?

And Hera is reduced to the cold-hearted bitch that does nothing but hunt kids... because...of what exactly now? And like I said, other goddesses (i.e. Aphrodite and Demeter) got a sorta redemption arc through the fandom. Hera doesn’t get that. It’s pretty much the polar opposite. I mean there’s this post floating around talking about Percabeth not marrying because Hera would be the one starting shit. I saw that and my mind immediately went ???? That post has 2k notes for some reason. That post is the perfect depiction (nothing against OP! I know it was a gag but still) of what’s wrong with Hera’s depiction in the series. And probably beyond that in general.

There’s literally no reason for her to go after the kids of other gods...? They’re none of her concern and I’m pretty sure she’d be way too busy to start stuff with people “just because she can”.

It’s easy for people to put Hera into this “evil monster”-box because it’s a sorta victim blaming approach. Instead of focusing on the root of the issue (Zeus), you rather focus too much on her methods/behavior and don’t question why it exists in the first place. Because putting the woman into the evil category is much easier (and more fun!). We see evil men all the time so you’re kinda desensitized to it. But when it’s a woman - dramatic gasp! And when you place her into the evil stepmother box? Perfect! More reasons to irrationally hate her. Sounds like projection from too many bland fairytales at best, but okay.

With the Trials of Apollo Riordan gives another perspective into the abuse of Zeus but I still find it disheartening that even Apollo sees nothing more but the spiteful stepmother in Riordan’s narration. If Apollo had all of these negative experiences with his father as well as Hephaestus and Ares in Greek canon and Hera in Greek canon (hell, she didn't even want to marry Zeus, she was tricked into it and r*ped), it’d be safe to assume that Hera as his wife and someone closer to that dude, mayhaps suffers even more. (Doesn’t diminish the stuff that Apollo went through, but I don’t like the way his thoughts are presented to Hera in regards of the TOA series).

It’s apparent that people love to hate Hera and I hate to see it.

#pjo #Percy Jackson #greek mythology #hera #greek gods #heroes of olympus #percy jackson and the olympians #hoo #toa #trials of apollo #rick riordan #rr crit #apollo #mel answers

[talkfantasytome]

In Defense of Misogyny?

NOPE!

Before I start, I will not be defending misogyny. There is no defense for misogyny. I'm just a bit of a bitch who couldn't resist a controversial title. *shrug*

I saw a conversation recently about how horrible it is that the fandom loves Eris and is quick to hate Mor. I was going to post my response in a reblog, but I realized that, on top of the post ending up very long, I wasn't fully responding to the conversation at hand. I was sharing my own thoughts that only semi-relate.

If you're interested in that convo, you can find it here.

However, I am not going to directly respond to this, because the conversation made good points. And I very much agree, in theory, that we should not be more forgiving of males than females in general.

Instead, I just want to share my own feelings on why it may not be misogyny to like Eris and dislike Mor, and the main questions to ask to understand that.

First and foremost - I would like to state that we can not and should not hold women to a higher standard than men. In this, I hands down agree.

I will also agree that it absolutely can be sexist/misogynistic to love Eris and hate Mor. However, as someone who, while in the throes of ACOSF, was upset with Mor and still liked Eris (or, enjoyed him? I love Eris, but I'm not always 100% sure I truly love him, or the character and the mystery behind him and my own hopes of who he might actually be), I don't consider myself or my reasons to have been sexist.

Also, I would like to point out that I did not end ACOSF still very upset with Mor. My current feelings are that I hope to see more of her to fall back in love with the character, as I did love her, for the most part, especially in ACOMAF. And I totes ship Mor/Emerie.

That being said, I think we have to take a moment to consider a multitude of factors around why one might currently be more forgiving of Eris than Mor, as well as other pieces, that may or may not show this as true misogyny.

1. Why are we mad at Mor?

Personally, for me, yes, I don't love that Mor hasn't said anything to Az, even in the vein of just telling him it's not going to happen. It's not that she must do this, or that Az deserves that, specifically. It's more that it would be the right thing to do. But, I'm not mad at Mor for this, because I understand why she doesn't. Similarly, there is no male character who I'm solely mad at because they kept a secret.

No, what hurt me the most about Mor - and yes, hurt me is the best way to describe it - was her complete disdain and hatred for Nesta. I am, generally speaking, biased toward Nesta, and I do recognize this. But it doesn't change where I came from. She was horrible to Nesta almost from the get go. Sure, she brought Nesta to the Night Court and then, the next time we see them together, Mor is snapping at Nesta. She basically ignores Nesta when Nesta decides to join them for the High Lord's meeting. She causes Cassian to pull his hand away from Nesta during the war - which, admittedly, was a Cass action I'm still waiting for an explanation on, but it still had to do with her. Cassian was doing that for her, which means that he believed him holding Nesta's hand might hurt Mor or something - why? What is it that makes Mor soooo against this compared to everyone else? It's either a selfish reason - i.e. the buffer thing - or it goes back to her just hating Nesta the most. She then basically yells at Nesta for waiting at Cassian's tent when he's injured - for caring for Cassian. And then, in SF, when we first see her she is insulting Nesta to Cassian, and then straight to Nesta's face.

Perhaps it is all about feeling like Nesta brings her friends pain. Perhaps it is a fear of how Nesta could change the inner circle. But, we are never given Mor's full reasons, and even other POVs don't really give us anything to go off of. So all we see is Mor hating Nesta.

We see Mor hating a woman who has just gone through some serious trauma. Multiple traumas, really. And she probably disliked Nesta even as a human, though again we didn't really see them interact, only Mor being shocked at Cassian's declaration to Nesta. Which can't help but make you wonder if that played any part, too.

So, in the end, what made me the most hurt by Mor's actions toward Nesta, and words about Nesta, was the fact that Mor seemed to not care at all about what Nesta was actually dealing with, she only cared that Nesta was being a bitch.

Mor - who has faced her own horrific traumas, yet can't see it in herself to give someone else who has faced trauma the benefit of the doubt. Mor - who was so kind to Feyre, and very forgiving of Feyre basically ignoring her that first time she was in the Night Court, understanding Feyre's trauma. Mor was holding Nesta to a double standard. Basically, my hurt and anger toward Mor stemmed from the same anger that went into that original post - anger at a double standard toward a female who is suffering from trauma. Because Mor, one who often seemed posed as a defender of woman, a representation of how one can heal and grow from trauma, but how that trauma will still always affect them, couldn't find it in herself to even understand that Nesta was dealing with her own trauma, and what she needed was healing and help. Not insults and being thrown into the Hewn City.

Is it not maybe understandable how it would actually be harder to forgive Mor for showing such a double standard? For showing such little care or sympathy toward someone who has faced her own trauma? How saying that Mor should be loved because she has gone through so much might be almost hypocritical, considering who Mor is showing hatred toward?

I do understand how Nesta could hit closer to home. She sees Nesta to be as bad as the people she was raised with. But, honestly, that doesn't make it better. It just reminds me that Mor is actually often blind to the truth when she doesn't want to believe it or face it. She runs from it, she fights it, and while she is in her right to do so, it is not okay to do so by hurting another person, another woman who has also been through more trauma than Mor even realizes.

I don't find that anger, or upset (which is really more how I felt about Mor) to be a form of misogyny, at least not on its own. Because my feelings for other characters, my interpretations of their actions, may be wholly different, and it's not that I'm holding Mor to a higher standard. It's that I hold certain issues above others, and to me, holding people to a double standard is at the top of the list on what will annoy me about someone else the most.

2. Who else are we mad at? Is it only Mor? Or are there others we are also mad at, and for what reasons?

We should also consider who else a person is mad at, if not Eris, to see are they really holding Mor/women to a higher standard.

Using myself, again - the person I came out of ACOSF the most mad with/upset about was, hands down, Rhys. Not Mor. In fact, by the end of the book, I'd lightened a lot toward Mor, because I did see how Mor was changing and adjusting. She saw Nesta healing, and her attitude toward Nesta shifted. And, to be perfectly honest, I am SERIOUSLY HOPING we will see them have a heart-to-heart, get to know each other, get to understand each other, apologize to each other (especially Mor for how she's treated Nesta, and the things she said to her when Nesta was literally depressed and dealing with PTSD - cause those things weren't okay) and come out the other side, if not as friends, than at least as two females who respect each other. Because I think we all, including Mor and Nesta, need that. But, despite that, we did at least see Mor be better with Nesta. It showed Mor's openness to possibly accepting a new truth about Nesta, which I was happy to see.

Now, back to who are we mad at. Like I said, even if we're considering the middle of ACOSF, when I was fully upset with Mor, my feelings toward her never got to where they still are with Rhys - I don't care about his gifts, until he proves to me he actually cares even a little bit about Nesta as her own person and not as Feyre's sister, I will struggle with him. So, again, can we argue that my feelings were misogynistic if, in the end, my greatest anger was actually toward a man?

On top of that, my anger toward Rhys is far more aligned to what I was feeling about Mor. Because, again, it was about his treatment of a character dealing with trauma. If anything, my double standard is toward Rhys. I don't think it's a double standard, because my expectations of Rhys were higher considering his previous actions, and how he supposedly cared about all of his people. Not because he was a man, but because of what we see from him vs. Mor, particularly in ACOWAR. And, also, you know - Rhys did other things that made me super mad. Mor never threatened Nesta's life, for example.

Conversely, any anger I've have toward Eris (and, I'll admit, there's still a bit), entirely surrounds what he did/didn't do 500 years ago. I'll go into more detail on why I may offer my forgiveness in the next section, but in regards to the anger - I don't see these aligned. My anger toward Rhys and Mor revolve mostly around double standards they seem to have and a lack of understanding or caring for someone who is clearly struggling with trauma. Something that, personally, I think they should both be on the side of truly understanding, considering their own experiences. Eris, on the other hand, it's an anger for leaving Mor to die. I'm not saying that this is a "better" thing to do, it's just that the two angers don't align. I'm not holding Mor to a higher standard, because I do not see the two as the same. Thus, their paths toward forgiveness may look very different, because I will be looking for different things in each of them.

3. What is the person now doing? Have they earned forgiveness?

I'm not saying Eris has earned forgiveness. I'm not saying Mor hasn't. That is up for all of us to interpret.

That being said, what we've seen from Mor does not include any signs of regret for her actions. We do not see her actively trying to make things better between her and Nesta, to understand Nesta, or that she has any sorrow for what she said to her. At best, we see Mor polite to Nesta, and maybe willing to get to know her better. The absolute best interaction was at Solstice, when Mor asked if she might be able to join. As I mentioned, I am hopeful for these two - in part cause my head canon is that they could actually be amazing friends, but that's for another day - and I really loved seeing Mor willing and interested to join in, despite it being with Nesta (and kinda Nesta's thing), as well as seeing Nesta being willing and interested to have Mor join, even if it's just solely for the priestesses. But, that is one interaction and, again, doesn't actually show any repentance from Mor for her own actions against Nesta.

I know some people will say "you mean just that one 'mean' thing Mor said?" - yes. Though it wasn't just that one time, was it? Because there have been multiple times Mor has shown a true disdain for Nesta, while also showing a true indifference to the fact that Nesta was struggling. The other best example of this was when Cassian was hurt in the war, and Nesta was waiting outside his tent, clearly terrified. Mor, also upset, by many things, took it almost entirely out on Nesta. She was either blind to Nesta's feelings for Cassian (doubtful), or she simply didn't care, and instead snapped at her, all while Nesta was probably terrified and fearing the worst in her mind.

The two never talked about this either. And we don't know if Mor regrets those things she's done and said, or even just feels bad, and we also don't have a full understanding of her reasons, or even if there are valid reasons. Because she doesn't talk about it - or, at least, we haven't see her talk about it. I truly hope we will get some answers to all of this. But, right now, we don't even really get hints - we simply assume she must have a reason, because she's Mor and she's great and so she must have a reason we can understand and accept. Still, we don't know, and we don't see her even be held accountable for those actions - admittedly, an issue with most of the Inner Circle and the lack of them being held accountable for how they've treated certain people.

Eris, on the other hand, while what he did was truly horrific, has admitted that he really regrets his actions - or inactions. And he has stated that he had his reasons - reasons that cost him. So we know that he has, in fact, paid for what he's done, at least to some extent. And, more so than that, his current actions seem, to me, to prove this. His constant attempts to ally with the Night Court, to try and do the right thing. Yes, when we saw him at the High Lord's meeting, he was wrong to say what he did to Mor. But we also cannot hold that at full face value and be mad at him for that one thing without remaining mad at Rhys for all he's done while wearing his High Lord of the Night Court mask. Again, that would be a double standard. We can be annoyed by it, but if we forgive Rhys for playing a part, we must also forgive Eris. (This statement, of course, is based on my interpretation that Eris is good at heart, but has made a number of mistakes and is essentially forced to be awful due to his place in life.)

However, despite that one thing, everything else we see from Eris, seems repentant. It is, of course, my interpretation of Eris. But considering all the things he's done, the little threads we get that show us he's not the awful monster we were told he is. He has been working to earn forgiveness, and is doing the right things now - just still often wearing that Autumn Court mask. And, if we're going to forgive Rhys for all the monstrous things he's done, because he has shown himself to be better than that, then it's okay to at least consider forgiving Eris.

So, why is it wrong to be willing to forgive someone for something that he has shown he is seeking forgiveness for? But to maybe not be forgiving another for something that she has not sought forgiveness for? Can we forgive someone for something if they don't realize what they did was wrong? In my opinion, no. Yes, people say that the only person you ever really need forgiveness from is yourself. And I don't fully disagree - I think we do need to forgive ourselves. But, again, only once we understand what we did, how and why it was wrong, and when we want forgiveness. Then we forgive ourselves, and at the least can hope that our actions show that we understand this truth, and others may forgive us even if we don't ask blatantly. In the end, though, we do need to ask for forgiveness. It's just a matter of whether we are vocalizing that request, or showing it in our actions.

Summary

Again, I'm not saying that there aren't times where this is a true double standard. Where people just love Eris and hate Mor, and maybe even blame Mor for what went down with Eris (and, if they do, I will fight them on that because Mor is blameless in that situation - idgaf if she slept with Cassian, I will not blame her for wanting out of that marriage).

I am also not trying to convince anyone that they should love Eris, or that they should dislike Mor - especially seeing as I don't fully dislike Mor, I'm just waiting for the best Mor to come back.

I'm only saying that we really can't make assumptions and say that loving Eris and hating Mor automatically means misogyny. Some things hit closer to home than others - as I mentioned as a possible reason why Nesta is such a struggle for Mor. It could very well be solely about what it is they do and don't forgive each person for. And, personally, I think finding out if a person who is angry with Mor was also angry with Rhys during ACOSF is a much better gauge than comparing Mor and Eris.

I don't believe that Mor owes anyone any explanations. Clearly, my own feelings around Mor have really not revolved around what she may or may not be hiding about Eris. Of course I want to know, I'm a nosy reader. But, if she's hiding something for her friends about that, she has her reasons and I'll accept them so long as they don't end up being, like "well, I just wanted you all to hate Eris forever". But, typically, Mor's reasons have to do with her own trauma and fears, and I accept that. It may, at times, be self-centered - but sometimes don't we all need to be a bit self-centered?

However, I think that we need to truly compare the anger, compare the reasons, to understand why some might like one character and dislike another. It is not feminist to automatically support a woman if she is in the wrong. It is not misogynistic to forgive a man and not a woman for two entirely different situations and reasons. We have to remember that feminism is supporting gender equality in every way - workplace, personal lives, laws, etc. Feminism is not supporting female superiority, which is exactly what happens when you compare two people for things that are not comparable, and then state that you must be more forgiving of the female.

After Thoughts on Mor

I am truly hopeful that we will see Mor and Nesta's relationship grow. And I would like to see more of the Mor we met in ACOMAF, tbh. I have felt, as has been observed by others, that Mor's character and journey has been incredibly chaotic and inconsistent. She was the bomb.com in ACOMAF with how she was with Feyre. Then, in ACOWAR, she was a bit moody, she was mean and harsh toward Nesta (and still has explaining to do on some of this and the Cassian stuff), and she just wasn't really who we met in ACOMAF. I don't really remember much about ACOFAS. But, in ACOSF, again, Mor was different. Except, instead of being just moody and harsh toward Nesta when pushed, now she's completely unforgiving and dismissive of Nesta. And, honestly, that wasn't the Mor I was expecting. I would have expected Mor to be one of the first to maybe realize that Nesta was dealing with trauma. I guess that expectation shouldn't have been held considering ACOWAR, but it was different. I still thought Mor might understand, to an extent - might be at least willing to help Nesta heal, or want to see her healed. Instead, we got someone who said Nesta should just be thrown into the Hewn City - to Cassian's face. So, on top of not giving a damn about Nesta at all (the female that saved Cassian's life, full stop), she also didn't show much caring or understanding of Cassian, one of her best friends. Not until after she saw what a comment like that did to him. And yes, Mor may be just dealing with her own trauma, I understand that. It's why I still have a hard time saying I was truly angry with Mor, but more hurt by/upset with her in ACOSF. Because it may be something deeper that caused her to be this way. Or just her own preoccupation with what's going on in her life. But, in the end, it was still targeted at one person, the one person who probably could handle it the least.

That's my long winded way of saying that I have a lot of hope for Mor's character in the future, and that I don't actually hate her. I just hope that we get to understand her better, understand the reasons she's had for what she's done, but I also hope we see her held accountable (and the rest of the IC).

As always, this is just my own personal opinion, and I accept that others' opinions may be different. I promise to respect yours, all I ask is that you respect mine. I'm not opposed to dissenting arguments, just asking for no attacks. :)

#acotar #acomaf #acowar #acosf #eris vanserra #morrigan