#(also note: i am Not saying people who make fan content are bad or problematic for doing that. my beef is with the actors.

[demonicintegrity]

The Will Wood Drama - an explanation and breakdown for those who need it TW: Allegations of grooming and manipulation, talks of unhealthy/toxic relationships, and talks of relapsing into self harm

So yesterday (7/31/22) a user posted a twitter thread saying he was groomed by Will Wood, and it has been archived by someone else* with og screenshots being found and showing the account that wasn’t in the og thread.** But I will be recapping and then giving my insight. It gets long.

TL:DR: Op has a deeply unhealthy relationship with Will where sexual intimacy is on and off in cycles. Both parties are negatively effected by it. I believe Op that it happened and that it caused serious harm but I cannot find the specific behaviors of grooming/manipulation/emotional abuse in the thread Op makes.

Notice: Do not harass and give death threats to Op. I don’t care what you think or believe in this situation, it is never okay to deliver death threats. Nor does it excuse being insensitive pricks. He’s been mobbed enough by stans who cannot give the situation delicacy and nuance. He’s still a person who was hurt and is still hurting. There is no intent of maliciousness from him, do not assume that.

*The archive has censored nudes of Will. Which is completely uncalled for and wrong to do. Nudes were exchanged with consent under the explicit agreement that it stay private. I understand that Op was being mobbed for proof that this was Will, posted, and the quickly deleted it. The archive has no right to keep the images nor do I think it was a necessary addition of proof that the exchange happened. I also hear a rumor through the grapevine that these photos allegedly don’t look like him and/or were doctored but I am in no place to confirm/deny because I don’t know what Will looks like either than a white man.

**Another rumor is that the insta account wasn’t manage by Will and thus could’ve been someone impersonating him? I don’t buy that because the later text messages do reference the insta ones. But I also don’t follow Will’s social medias so idk who manages what and where and what he types like. Again not my call to make.

Edit: As new information comes to light it will be in the replies. New links have been added already. In one of the links we see more people come forward with further problematic behavior from Will in the past. If you have further information, read what’s already in there and then explain your own. The asks on my blog regarding this are more broader discussion than actual evidence gathering/analysis, that will stay in the replies for convenience.

At age 18 in 2018 op becomes facebook friends with Will and they had a casual friendly relationship. Time passes, they meet at a concert in 2019 and talk, more time passes and they moved to snapchat and again, was friendly. They talk and Will finds out Op is selling nsfw content of themselves and expresses some interest even with guilt. Because there is an age gap and he is aware Op is a fan. There are screenshots of that and him mentioning it would be “cancel city” if people saw he bought nudes from an 18yo fan. (worth noting that op does state that they were talking on snap but the screenshots are of an insta convo here, but benefit of the doubt that it’s a slip.) Pictures are paid for, Op feels “starstruck” but fine with this even tho Will expresses some residual guilt.

(Note: I am not jumping at Will’s guilt and unease here as proof of bad behavior. People feel guilt for sexual desires esp when it’s taboo, even when it’s 100% fine. Just as I’m giving Op grace, I will give Will grace too, I know nothing about either them as people. But I do know feeling guilt over sexual attraction because it something you can’t control, and I do know famous people are esp prone to judgement and anxiety that can be internalize. Yes there is an age gap, but they met as adults and he has never personally known them as a child. The experience difference from age can be a valid concern in any relationship, but in the context of just buying pictures I don’t think that’s relevant.)

The night afterwards Will brings up sexting for money but pulled out, being personally uncomfortable with it and then wanting the sexual undertone of their relationship to be removed. Op says thats fine and that’s that. 

The next part is Op expresses some self-conscious issues regarding being in college classes and a certain incident not elaborated on. We get a screenshot of Will comforting Op citing they are mature and smart. Here Op says that it sounds like the “youre so mature for your age” sentiment perverts use to get close to kids, and although they want to believe Will is just being nice they now think it creepy because it coupled with Will’s earlier worry of being “cancelled” for buying pics of an 18 yo.

Now the full sentence is “You’re smart and mature and you have a good head on your shoulders.” I personally don’t think this is creepy or being used in the same way as a pervert would. If my friend was insecure about being in college that is something I would probably would say to them too. In context, I feel this is fairly innocent and doesn’t prove anything wrong of Will.

After that they’re talking just as casual friends for a bit. Eventually Will makes a sexual advance again and it is reciprocated. Free of charge they would exchange pictures occasionally. It is here Op openly admits to feeling completely dependent on his praise and feeling as if he didn’t, Will would leave.

Now there are no screenshots of conversation to be further proof of Op’s word that Will would stop being friends if they weren’t sexting. Giving Op the benefit of the doubt, those feelings were genuinely felt. But I genuinely don’t know if Op felt that because Will had made some comment to suggest it or Op’s codependency was feeding that anxious feeling. I simply do not know. As someone who has been codependent in an intimate relationships before and still has anxious issues, I can tell you that even though these fears are genuine and have mental and physical effects, sometimes they really aren’t founded. It doesn’t mean theyre invalid fears, but it’s just not very applicable to the current situation.

Again, I cannot be 100% sure whether that worry here is founded or not. Considering Will had been able to keep a friendship with Op before and after the introduction of sexual pictures, I can see where the nagging thought would be there but that also shows he was capable of being friends without it. idk. So while I’m keeping it in mind that op has this fear + codependency because it will color their side of future interactions, I am also giving Will the benefit of the doubt that he’s unaware of this complex. After all, they’d been friends with healthy communication for a time.

It is now that Op says these next messages and timeline specifically come from insta. Op describes this as a cycle. They would sext. Will would then feel weird about it. They would stop. He would get “bored” and then it would start again. And this cycle would continue until march 2020. (Now i dont know what Op means by “stop” whether it would stop only the sexting or communication altogether. I’m leaning towards the former and assume that going forward.)

Now, is this healthy? Absolutely not. It sounds like Op and Will are in an unhealthy cycle of being attracted to and wanting each other’s attention. But being unable to properly expressed and place and enforce boundaries down of what attraction this is and how that relationship should be. It a definite issue, but something they both need to communicate in order to find a solution. When it comes to what a relationship is, it requires both people to work together to find a way to make it work to decide if it’s not worth it anymore.

Op does not elaborate further on this cycle. Which is fine, I wouldn’t want to think a lot about it if I were in that place either. What memories mightve felt fine and good in the moment definitely can feel tainted and fuzzy later due to new associations to the event/someone in the event. I get it.

If Will had intentionally encouraged Op to be codependent, lead Op on, that would 100% be on Will and be a terrible terrible thing. That would qualify as grooming and manipulating them. Worth every bit of condemnation. However, this thread doesn’t elaborate if that happened. And at the point Op doesn’t claim that, just that it was a cycle. A clearly unhealthy one. We have no idea what it looked like beyond the sexting starting and stopping.

I do want to clarify because I saw some people saying this: You can be groomed at any age. Kids are not the only ones groomed. It’s just that an adult/child dynamic is the easiest to leverage and most recognizable. You can also be groomed regardless of occupation. I understand Op was selling nsfw content, that doesn’t mean he’s suddenly immune from grooming. All grooming requires is using pressure to force you to take on a certain role. This pressure could be from emotional or physical abuse, leveraging authority, leveraging status, basically anything. In this specific case, the implication is that Will would’ve leverage his status to get Op to do things. The fact that there is an age gap would imply that because Op is younger, Op would have less experience and knowledge that could play into Will’s advantage here.

That is entirely possible, but at this point in the thread, Op doesn’t claim that happening. And there are no screenshots here, so there is no dialogue to see contribute to that reasoning. Not saying it couldn’t exist, but it’s not presented. So while I’m believing Op that something unhealthy was happening between them, I’m not placing a word as to what type of unhealthy relationship it is without more context.

Op goes to Will’s last show before the lockdown, talks to the bass player more than Will and then gets home to see sexual messages from Will. I have no idea where in that cycle this incident would be in. Just that this happened during the cycles.

After that show, lockdown starts. Op’s home life gets really traumatizing during this. This additional trauma is relevant because Op would turn to Will during these times. Citing him being a friend and having relevant experience regarding the traumatic development. This is also during the cycle of have a sexual relationship with Will, in their own words saying they were a “sexual object” to him. Again, no dialogue to be seen so I don’t know where exactly Op is getting this, but if he felt like an object, he felt like an object. I cannot dissuade that. No one has a right to make calls on what someone else is feeling. I can only wonder where it came from and what contributed to that feeling. The most I can confidently say it’s that this unhealthy cycle was causing it, but not what specifically about it. We’re not provided further elaboration and I’m not gonna demand that of Op.

One night of this traumatizing development at home around 2/3am Op is on a spiral at genuine risk to relapsing into self harm and turns to Will. Will stays up with them until 6am to help them through it. Op is calmed down and goes to sleep safe and unharmed. Op describes the next few days of him being extremely grateful that Will did this, while Will is being standoffish with one word replies. Eventually Op confronts Will and asks if he had done something wrong.

This is the correct course of action. If Will was upset at smth Op said he should’ve said something instead of being vague and standoffish. That is on Will, but that’s poor communication, not necessarily manipulation.

Op then quotes but doesn’t provide screenshots that Will says Op was being manipulative, only coming to Will for sexual purposes, and made him out to be an “emotional dumping ground.” Breaking that down, there is no cause to assume Op was being manipulative. There is no cause to believe Op only wanted sexual attention from Will, in fact Op already stated it was the attention from a local star that drove a lot of this attachment. Op seems willing and okay with sexual intimacy at this point, but I don’t think Op wanted only sex. It is the “emotional dumping ground” aspect that likely has some genuine weight to it.

Op is already dependent on Will for emotional support and going through a lot of trauma. And as someone who’s been there, it’s so easy to dump on the person you’ve formed a codependency on. Both appropriately vent and inappropriately dumb baggage on them. It’s not fair to the other person, even when they do want to help. I’ve been on both sides of that, it’s awful. I don’t think Op was intentional in harming Will if they were dumping trauma on him often during this time, but it doesn’t mean it still couldn’t have caused harm. It’s already established that Op and Will’s relationship had serious communication and boundary issues at this point. I am not surprised that Will would’ve felt like an emotional dumping ground in this situation.

Op goes on to say he’s mortified that “someone that [he] revered as a god-like figure, [told him he] was being manipulative for asking for help.” And no, asking for help is not inherently a manipulative thing, in fact the “asking” part is what gives the other person a healthy chance to not help. Telling someone they’re manipulative for asking for help is a huge dick move. On the other hand, asking someone to talk you down from relapse is tall order. Now I don’t know if Op specifically told Will a relapse felt oncoming when first asking for help, or it was revealed through prompting and conversation later on. Regardless, it was made apparent to Will, hence why he stayed up with them. I don’t know how those hours went down and I would never ask Op to try and remember how it did.

But asking someone to help you through a mental health crisis is a tall order. Especially at 3am to a person you have an on and off inconsistent relationship with. There is a reason you go to someone trained in a mental health crisis, they are prepared and know how to help and handle your situation. If you ever find yourself in Op’s position, call/text a mental health service line. The one I’m familiar with is 741741, double check for what is in your area/country. No matter what that is going to be a key and/or turning point in a relationship. I am not saying don’t go to friends/family/partner when youre struggling, but you also have to understand they’re not always going to know what to do. And if this is happening over text, which is what happened between Will and Op, there’s even less they can do now coupled with knowing they can’t do much if things take a turn. It’s an intense emotional labor that yes, some people are more than willing to do for someone they love, but that doesn’t mean it’s still not a difficult thing to ask.

I feel for Op, I really really do. And Will is wrong to call that manipulative, because I genuinely don’t think Op was intentional trying to harm, but I can 100% see and find it valid as to why he would be uncomfortable with that incident. It’s not an excuse to be standoffish for days but yeah, maybe it takes time to figure out how to address that.

What raises a big red flag for me is that Op openly admits to revering Will in a god-like manner. Under no circumstances should you be revering anyone like that. I knew Op was dependent to the point of codependency (I should clarify that codependency is my interpretation of this, not Op’s.) but holy shit is that so much worse. That is such an unhealthy mindset to have towards someone and it sets up any relationship to be unhealthy and poor. And the thing is, Op doesn’t elaborate where it came from.

If this is indeed grooming, Will would have had to encourage and enable and endorse this god-like image. For starters, I have no idea if Will knew or figured out Op had this mindset. The only thing seemed to have been made explicit is the trauma Op’s enduring through lockdown and as such the codependency would’ve been made obvious. And if I recall correctly, Will has stated he doesn’t like to be idolized by his fans. Most people don’t and I do know that celebs are the ones that have to be explicit in saying they don’t like idolization because it happens so much. 

What I make of this revering is that unfortunately Op had set themselves up for tragedy. Having such bad idolization and dependency from the beginning he seemingly couldn’t get away from. Even if you enter a healthy relationship, that is how it gets severely damaged if you don’t keep it in check. I can say that with full confidence because I have damaged a good relationship with codependency before. It’s unfortunate, it’s a tragedy, but that’s how the cookies crumbles.

Now, if Will intentionally put that mentality onto, enabled, or intentionally capitalize on that, he would 100% be a manipulative person in this. Deserving to be condemned and held accountable for taking advantage of a vulnerable person. But at no point does Op say he knew or enabled this. I’m assuming Will has caught onto the dependency, but only because the traumatic environment Op was in had him cling to Will. And I can see being sympathetic to the situation and thus not addressing the dependency right away because it could ease up once the trauma isn’t actively happening. I don’t know if he was aware of it before lockdown and certainly don’t expect him to have thought he was being revered in a godly manner at any point.

All Op elaborates is he still struggling to ask for help because of this. And I do not blame Op for that, I feel for him because I have the exact same struggle because of previous relationships. And that Op and Will barely talk for months after this confrontation. At this point Op is heartbroken and feels like he ruined everything.

Then Op’s feelings about the situation evolves after speaking to friends about it. Now the feeling is that Op was “groomed by a man with insane power over [him.]”

I don’t want to bash on Op’s friends. I don’t know what they were told and the context or any of that. I am sure they only want what’s best for Op and have his best interest in mind. I will never fault someone for genuinely believing something bad happened and pointing it out. However, I still don’t know at what point this relationship became grooming. It was definitely unhealthy, and probably toxic at some point, but I do not see where Will intentionally leveraged power to make Op do something. It’s not in any dialogue exchange shown. Maybe the screenshots have been lost, which I wouldn’t fault Op for. All I can gather from the relationship is that it’s unhealthy and clearly brought distraught to both sides. I believe Op that something unhealthy went down and fucked him up, I can see that. And if Op’s friends, who likely have more details, believe something wrong went down I am inclined to believe.

I’m just scouring and rereading and I can’t find the grooming behavior.

Sometime after Op’s evolved feelings, Will reaches out to apologize to Op. The screenshots provided are of an apple text exchange. Will apologizes for acting hot and cold, and for making Op feel like he didn’t care. He says it’s not a reflection on Op and it was on him and his own issues. He says he recognizes he did something wrong, he is working on it, and that it is “too little too late” in Op’s case, but he is sorry and wishes him better. It is a solid apology. I do not see faults in it and so long as he keeps to his word that he tries to improve, he’s done his part. Sounds like he’s made his peace with his part in the relationship.

Op accepts the apology and then tells Will he’s done some thinking and thinks it was extremely inappropriate it even happened. (I’m assuming this refers to the sexual intimacy part of the relationship.) He goes on to tell Will he should’ve been more mindful to who he speaks to and what he means to them. Op’s specifically points out their age gap and the fact that he idolized him. That there was a lot of power there. Will apologizes for taking a lot of time to respond, he’s collecting his thoughts, and then Op states he’s realized he’s “not entirely blameless” which I’m interpreting as he understands his idolization of Will is something he went into the relationship with, which isn’t Will’s fault at all. It also could be that Will didn’t grasp the full extent of the idolization and dependency, which again wouldn’t have been his fault either.

While Will absolutely should have addressed idolizing and then the dependency that became apparent, he is not a mind reader and had no way to know how deep it went with Op. It’s also entirely possible he’s human and just didn’t know how to navigate a relationship with the power tipped to one side. On that point, I’m not sure if there are resources for that besides couple’s therapy. And I can’t even say if they labelled themselves as a proper couple because Op never states what it was called. Certain relationships come with certain expectations.

(Personally I am of the believe if if you’re going into any intimate relationship, platonic, romantic, or sexual, what kind of relationship you’re looking for and are willing to be in should be an explicit conversation up front. It should also be a continuing conversation as it develops. But I also understand most people don’t enter relationships like that or take the time to think about doing that. And if it does works out find without that, I can’t find fault in that.)

Will doesn’t respond for a week and Op blocks him so he can stop focusing on it and move on. Good on Op, good for him. He then states that weeks after My Body Your Temple comes out, he reads the lyrics to it. This causes a spiral because the lyrics remind him of what happen, stating that it’s a lot of the language and sentiment Will used with him. This spiral is what prompts Op to write the thread.

I have no doubt in my mind it would’ve been triggering for Op. The first time thinking about Will after this and it’s a song discussing vulnerability and intimacy with sexual language. Again, I feel for Op. I don’t think it was Will’s intention to use language similar to that relationship. The song was written for a podcast called Camp Here & There. I’m not familiar with the podcasts but genius.com says it’s about The Elephant Man. Whatever character that is. I heard the song without knowing it was apart of the podcast, and his songs have like 100 different interpretations sometimes anyways.

Op said he felt free from the relationship after writing it all out, which I am happy for. Sometimes it takes writing and dumping it all out there to process and feel better and I want Op to feel better because he is clearly hurting bad. I do think this relationship was very unhealthy and has lasting effects I hope he recovers from.

I’m just confused at where the apparent manipulation and sexual grooming is. I reread over and over. I don’t know where is the behavior of Will intentionally capitalizing on Op. I don’t know where’s this behavior of Will forcing and pressuring Op. It’s possible that it’s there and just not in the few screenshots provided and just wasn’t properly elaborated on in the description of this relationship. But I see everything that says “unhealthy” but I don’t see grooming, manipulation, or emotional abuse like he said this was.

I believe Op 100% that something bad and unhealthy happened. Everything here really does strike a chord someone deeply hurt. And I genuinely feel sorry that it happened and I wish them peace and recovery and better things. But I’ve reread the thread over and over at different points in time. I cannot find what I can use to specifically label this unhealthy relationship as being groomed or abused. I don’t know where it came from.

And I’m not pointing that out to victim blame or make accusations against Op, I do not want more harm and harassment on him. I’m pointing it out because I think everyone would do good learn the difference between an unhealthy relationship and an abusive one. One that’s unhealthy by chance and circumstances vs unhealthy by deliberate actions and intentions. One’s a tragedy and the other a crime.

Op wouldn’t have made these things up. Everyone knows if you accuse anyone, let alone a celebrity, there are going to be people coming out of the woodworks to play devil’s advocate and tear into your life. Making up drama is not worth that. He also has the expressed interest of helping other people avoid what happened to him. And that is noble and good, especially when you’re doing that by opening up about something that has hurt you so deeply.

It’s just that, the lesson and warning I get isn’t “Will is a predator” it’s “Don’t place people on such a pedestal and then get into an intimate relationship with them without stepping away from that. Be wary of becoming codependent.” Both still valid warnings, even if it’s not quite what Op is going for. With or without Will’s name or age gap on the relationship, those are the two conclusions I see with how the relationship has been laid out.

(Another thing is that this whole thing was seemingly wrapped up with the apology. Op doesn’t accuse Will of these things in that exchange. Something understandable because its a weighty accusation to make to someone directly. Even the best of people will want a further confrontation from that, and Op was not benefiting from focusing on Will and that relationship at that point to begin with. It seemed like that was going to be that, and they both were going to be done with the relationship for good. But then Op’s spiral with the new song prompted the thread.)

Op later tweets he doesn’t care if people listen to his music, it’s not about Will’s career it’s Will as a person he wants people to be safe from. And he makes the valid point of hardly anyone knows him outside of the face of the artist, of course he’d be a bit different off stage. It’s also in that tweet where he says Will he made Op need “to keep going back to him validation.” Which again, I don’t know where that’s coming from, but I do believe Op when he says he felt that way. I have no reason not to believe him.

Obviously I’m not gonna blame anyone who doesn’t want to listen to Will Wood after this, even if just for a little bit because of how this development sours things. It is your choice to continue or not continue engaging with his content and how. I do think most people can give a little bit more tact to the sensitive situation. Be nice and civil to Op at least. Better yet, leave him alone. He’s been through enough mobbing.

I believe there was a call for anyone else who had an experience with Will to step forward if they feel comfortable doing so. If a legitimate pattern of behavior is revealed, obviously then accountability needs to be held. But until then this really does feel like a unhealthy relationship that was wrapped up and both parties were processing and moving on until the spiral happen. An unhealthy relationship that maybe we didn’t need to know about? I don’t know. But if for a moment, writing the thread gave Op relief and I’d never deny him or anyone else that.

I feel for Op so so much. This just doesn’t tell me enough about Will to make a definite conclusion on him. I cannot in good conscious alleged abuse because I cannot point to a specifically abusive behavior in the thread. Maybe in due time more will be revealed to shed more light on the situation. And if more evidence is revealed, it will inform my conclusions then. But as it is right now, it’s just a deeply unhealthy relationship worsen by circumstances and fumbling on both parties. And I feel bad, it seems tragic to me. And it doesn’t mean Op deserved any of this angst by any means, but what else could be said about it?

It’s 4am and I’m p sure I started this post around 10:30/11pm. I’m without internet rn so ig ill post this when I wake up from sleep. And at 11am this has been reviewed and ready for posting. I don’t typically feel the urge to comment on discourse, esp one of this nature, but I’ve seen some bad faith takes as well as some confusion and questions. And this is something I feel can help people get a better grasp on the situation.

Obviously, make your own conclusions. Believe the victim that something bad happened; but also when you give someone you don’t know grace about something serious, you should also give the other person in the relationship grace when applicable. You don’t know either of them. Also understand that relationships can come with some nuance to it, which is applicable here. Maybe the cards were always set up for failure. Maybe Will genuinely mishandled the relationship. Maybe Op’s revering and codependency is something Will couldn’t have handled well at that time. I cannot say anything for certain because I don’t know enough about how the relationship carried to make that call. All I can say with certainty is that it was a deeply unhealthy relationship for them both and that they both contributed to that unhealthy aspect.

#discourse #Will Wood #I have the urge to disable reblogs because lately people have been tacting irrelevant claims to my stuff and/or making my posts to be smth #its not. but i cannot find the option. So be mature adults with critical thinking and decency p l e a s e #If you absolutely have to add smth on do it in the replies so everyone can see it at once

[shattered-sparks]

Alright. Now that I’ve gotten some sleep time to go into my thoughts on SAMS overall. 

I can now officially say I have seen every episode on the sun and moon channel. From start to to now I binged watch it for a fan comic I plan on writing. I wanted to get the characters in character and due to how SAMS works I needed to watch every episode.  And due to that there is a few things I do want to say on the series.  (If I am wrong about anything you are free to correct me as there is so much info out there that I could’ve forgotten small things) 

SAMS and how it treats it’s Autistic and Aroace characters is horrendous. 

For some context, Hi. I’m a content creator who’s on the spectrum. I may not be aroace but I’m still apart of the LGBTQ+. And there is a amazing post by someone who is aroace on the same subject. 

This isn’t on just head cannons either, it’s been confirmed in the show that Moon is acrace and off the show the creators deliberately make characters act certain ways for representation. Lunar is one that shows heavy signs of being on the spectrum. Some people headcannon him to have ADHD. Some people headcannon him to have both, regardless it still stands that he shows signs of being nuro-divergent. The treatment of Moon and Lunar is saddening.

As a joke the show in the early days constantly pushed for Moon to get into a relationship. Making him clearly uncomfortable. It got so bad that his own brother set him up for a date when he clearly didn’t want it. As well as the episode with Wither Foxy who disregards that he is acroace completely. Making a person uncomfortable and throwing away their comforts isn’t funny. It’s just being a dick to be a dick. 

As for Lunar the show constantly either gets their age completely wrong or infantilizes them. No matter how many times Lunar has corrected these characters they still call him a child due to how he acts and how high pitched his voice is. The most insulting thing is when Sun before going on his hunt to kill Eclipse regarded Lunar as childish and needing to grow up. This is problematic due to how Lunar is depicted. 

For years it’s been a issue with people seeing autistics as stupid and dumb. Un-capable of doing anything. This is so bad that a olden scientific term for Autistics that is now outdated is used as a slur to put others down. 

The shows writing could really use some work

As a content creator who dabbles in story writing it’s easier for me to pick up on the flaws, but that doesn’t necessarily make it a bad story. On the contrary due to SAMS being improv 90% of the time the story it carries is wonderful. The characters have amazing depth and overall is a joy to watch. My problems more so lie within the consistency of the show and what it does with some characters. First thing I want to get into is the parts that were the hardest for me to sit through. That being times where characters are either Mean/Stupid just to be mean/stupid. The episodes that come to mind as perfect examples being When Sun went to monty for help and New!Moon pressing all the buttons and activated randomizer mode. Those two episodes were so hard to sit through cause it holds no weight to the story. It’s just there to be there.  (I understand this is a show to bring in kids/teens but even shows that are also doing that don’t have episodes that are just there to bully a character or make a character into a complete dumbass for no reason other than funny) Consistency, especially with these VAs is understandably not going to be perfect. They have other shows they go on and even sometimes play the same characters just in different stories. So to remember every tiny detail is literally impossible. That is not what I am asking for. What I would like to be worked on is main story beats. Plot lines and character traits have gone completely forgotten over time. To have a small note of previously established stuff the VAs could quickly read to remember certain stuff would be amazing, that way Solarflare’s name doesn’t get changed 3 times in a row.  (I’m still waiting for them to do something with the S.O.S. Eclipse sent out using Moon’s Computer) Solar flare and Bloodmoon were wasted potential as well but that goes more into opinion territory. 

#SAMS #TSAMS #the sun and moon show #Sun and Moon show #sams critical #Coyote Noises

[angara-mfrp]

Hi again, anon. I'm putting this under a readmore simply because in answering your question, because it required somewhat of a lengthy explanation.

We do not allow character faceclaims. Not of ANY character, including banned ones. OCs who wish to use the faceclaim of the banned characters would be rejected immediately, due to the fact that we do not wish for anyone to circumvent the rule of banned characters, and for characters to not recognize an OC for the character in their canon.

I am not saying that OCs aren't allowed to be amalgamations of traits that could potentially be possessed by banned characters. You could make a fallen angel OC without them being Belial, you could have a middle aged crime boss who isn't Mother, a salaryman looking for a quiet life that isn't Yoshikage Kira, and so on.

As you can see above, the troubling and problematic traits were not included. Such traits are heavily discussed in them; we are unable to see how they may be separated. I'd also like to point out our banned character list is meant for the safety of RPers. We have our reasons for disallowing them, by which their content and backstory is very triggering or uncomfortable to many people, and we find that such traits cannot be detached from said characters without changing them entirely.

I am unsure what you mean by sanitization in this regard. Yes, we are a post-apocalyptic group. However, this is still an RP group, and the setting does not exempt the group from banning such triggering and problematic content. As mods, we wish for RPers to be able to RP safely and happily, and that includes us ensuring that certain characters are left out, and certain topics are banned. If by sanitization you mean the lack of villains, by all means, do try to RP one. We have a plethora of villains that are accepted within the group, the ones that are banned are due to the content that cannot be separated from them as characters.

At the end of the day, the people writing these fictional characters are human beings who have lived their lives and experienced good things as well as bad. We want to create a place where people can unwind and feel comfortable, and that means avoiding certain topics and content. I'm sure there are fans of true crime, fictional crime, and certain types of horror in this group. You may enjoy what you wish to enjoy, and many of us consume media critically. However, that does not exempt the RP group from banning such content, and as mods, to create a safe environment for RPers and mods alike.

As a final note, we disallow faceclaims for a reason. The characters may appear in the RP, and so to prevent that we do not allow faceclaims of ANY character whatsoever. Even banned ones. Picrew exists, should you require to design your OC. For the sake of ensuring that characters don't recognize an OC for the character of the face claim, or for a character to see an OC with the same face, we have implemented the rule above.

I hope that you will understand our stance on this matter.

#adz ask #anon

[giant-squid-official]

tbh pretty disappointed to find out that both kayvan novak and mark proksch have done blackface seemingly unapologetically.

the former, as a part of a show that he ran, playing characters that he created on a previous show. (the show, Facejacker, ran from 2010-2012.)

the latter, in an episode of the office from 2012 that has since been edited to remove the scene (the showrunner has apologized for the scene, but i do not think mark has said anything.)

would be nice if they at least addressed this in some kind of way showing an understanding of why doing blackface contributes to systems of racism

#not to be like CANCELLED but... cmon y’all you’re not even gonna apologize? as a fan of color... >:/ #wwdits #what we do in the shadows tv #nandor the relentless #colin robinson #i am speaking as a fan of the show here... i Love it as a show but i am also Super disappointed and kinda angry abt this. do better!!!! #address it!!!! #(also note: i am Not saying people who make fan content are bad or problematic for doing that. my beef is with the actors. #) #also like... the facejacker makeup is just really disturbing. don’t properly know how to articulate how disturbing it is. #obviously the black peter makeup is Also Bad but it’s not SO repeated #and.... intentional...

[cassandraclare]

I'm sorry to hear that your hard work was leaked but I was curious about what happened. I hope the person faced consequences because that was a very selfish thing to do leaking your work like that :(

I haven’t taken action against the person who leaked the book. I know who they are, since they uploaded the page I signed for them, and I was able to match that against my records. 

I haven’t refrained from taking action because I feel sympathy for them. I don’t. It’s beyond shitty behavior to receive an early, signed book as a gift, and to then leak the entire book online. It’s a shit thing to do to the authors and an equally shit thing to do to other fans. However, I don’t want to put myself (and Wes) through the exhausting, grim and expensive process of legal repercussions. It doesn’t mean what this person did isn’t horrible, and it doesn’t mean they haven’t cost the entire fandom any chance of there ever being an early contest giveaway like that again. They did. There never will be. There will be no ARCs of Chain of Iron, either, and you can thank them for that, too. 

Part of what makes piracy such an issue for authors goes far beyond the individual assholes who upload and distribute and translate stolen books. It’s that the whole system is set up to make it incredibly difficult for us to do anything about it. Publishers do little to nothing to prevent piracy, and authors shoulder the entire burden of searching out and reporting illegal copies of their books. And even then, we’re dependent on whether or not the reported website feels like complying with copyright laws or not. Twitter is incredibly slow to respond, Tumblr is about fifty-fifty on bothering at all. They’re legally required to take action, but they also know that the effort of doing something about it if they do not falls on exhausted, overburdened artists who often can’t afford to follow up with a lawyer’s letter.

And like, I get being broke and wanting to read books; there were a lot of books I had to pass up reading when I was broke (I will be forever grateful to the library system of New York and Brooklyn, which is how I read books at all from about 2001-2004.) I was broke enough that I slept on a bare mattress because I couldn’t afford sheets, but I’m pretty sure if I broke into Bed, Bath and Beyond and stole a bunch of fitted percale bedding I wouldn’t have encountered much sympathy if I got caught. 

I talked about this on Twitter before, and I’ll say it again here though I know it will make very little difference: pirating books doesn’t just hurt the author of those books. It hurts everyone at the publishing company, where the margin of profit is razor-thin (and yes, publishers should do more to protect themselves against piracy; I agree there); it hurts bookstores, especially indie bookstores (I remember doing an event at a store that told me, sadly, that they were likely going to have to close because people “came into the store, looked at the books, took notes, then went home and pirated them.”) It hurts libraries, who rely on circulation for funding, and the shutting down of libraries hurts people who actually can’t afford books.

Now, I know is no way to talk people out of piracy; the internet has normalized it, and besides, people will generally do the cheaper, easier thing — you can’t talk people into not doing something they want to do by telling them it’s wrong, in my experience. They’ll find ways to justify it, whether it be that they can’t afford the book or it isn’t yet available in their language or that they find the author “problematic” and this is the way they’ve chosen to punish them. 

The reason I put “problematic” in quotes is because yes, of course you can read and enjoy work that has problematic elements. Pretty much everything has some element that’s going to be found problematic by someone — which is exactly why deciding that it’s morally excusable to steal from people you think are creating flawed work is more than problematic. Holding creators accountable for their work means critiquing that work, not stealing it.

I listen to a lot of political podcasts, and some of them review work by extreme right-wing politicians etc. who have written books that the podcasters find morally despicable but wish to, or need to, review and discuss. Since they don’t wish to give money to the authors, they buy second-hand copies or take the book out of the library. They certainly don’t steal, translate and distribute copies of the books because they genuinely do not like them and do not want more people reading them. That’s what it looks like when you have an actual moral problem with a book or author. 

However, running multiple fan accounts for a book series, naming your internet identity after characters from that book series, and talking endlessly about “your favorite parts” and how this is “your favorite book” entirely invalidates any argument that you’re doing this because you think the books are bad, evil, etc. If you claim a book is actively homophobic or racist but are so desperate to read it that you’ll steal it, so excited about it that you’ll share that stolen copy, so obsessed that you’ll illegally translate a whole book and provide that stolen translation to as many people as possible, and so dedicated to the fandom that you’ll name yourself after the characters in the books and write poetry about them, I have to tell you: the last thing that looks like is that you actually find the books problematic, regardless of what you say to the contrary. It looks like you like them but don’t want to pay for them, because in fact, that’s the case. (Either that or it looks like you’re really into racist, homophobic books, and making sure as many people read them as possible, which is your problem.)

One of the issues I have with piracy is that it teaches you to hate creators. You have to hate them, because you’re doing a fucking awful thing to them and you have to justify it. This results in lying about creators — about their process, their translations, their research — as if somehow, even if they were bad researchers, that would justify widespread theft. (It doesn’t.) Those who steal books wind up in a headspace where they are obsessed with the content of the books, and entirely unwilling to accept the reality that those books were created by a real person that they’re really harming. It encourages the mentality that I didn’t create Jem or Magnus or Will or Cordelia: they came from some kind of sparkly outerspace planet and I was just lucky enough to get to write down their adventures. It invalidates the hard work creators put into what they create, and in fact, erases their very existence. The internet attitude toward creators is already incredibly toxic (especially if they’re women, LGBT+ and/or BIPOC) and the feeling of entitlement to free content, and vicious hatred toward those who aren’t providing it (even though a lot of creators, me included, provide a great deal of free content) contributes to that. Genuinely, if you’re stealing someone’s work, the least you could do is not also be an asshole about them. (Or pretend you’re Robin Hood. He stole from the rich who had taken property and goods from the poor, and returned that stolen wealth. He didn’t steal from artists and independent bookstores and use that stealing to benefit himself and his friends. The idea is actually kind of funny.) 

 I understand there is a pressure to be up to date on the books that are being released so as to participate in fandom, and I do get that. Unfortunately, piracy has real consequences that stretch beyond just hurting me and Wes. Because LGBT+ books are pirated at such an incredible rate, and we’ve definitely seen that with TEC, I am left wondering if there will ever be an actual Spanish translation of TEC, or whether the publisher will decide not to bother because it’s already been so thoroughly pirated in Spanish. I have to wonder if there will even be a third book of TEC at all, or whether publishers will feel it isn’t worth doing. And I have to wonder why the people who create this situation so often have usernames that include Jem or Magnus or Alec or Cordelia or Julian or Tessa. What an incredible misunderstanding of those characters, to imagine a world in which Will Herondale or Magnus Bane or James Carstairs would approve of stealing books and harming writers. And why name yourself after a character who absolutely couldn’t stand you? I don’t know. I don’t get it, any more than I get hating someone who provided you with something you claim is your favorite book. 

That was a much longer answer than you were probably expecting or hoping for, and I know I’ll get yelled at quite thoroughly for writing it. Writers always do, when we engage with the issue of piracy. I know most of you reading this acquire your books honestly; most of you are not like this at all. But like most things on the internet, a small amount of people really do have the power to make things pretty rotten for everyone else.

#brother-sixpackariah-carstairs #piracy #tda #tlh #tec

[mrsblackruby]

Hey👋🏿 hope you’re having a nice day 😊

Sorry for cross tagging but the harassment is getting out of hand. Okay I’m a Billy Hargrove fan willing to make a cross tag post [which turned into a 5 part series ] discussing how to treat and respect fans in the strangers things community. I’m hoping to showcase behavior we shouldn’t engage in when we see someone who likes a character who we dislike. I’m also hoping to start a respectful discussion to help anyone on tumblr who doesn’t understand Billy fans but wants to understand them.Let’s hope this doesn’t become overwhelming 😳

I’m open to fair criticism. Let me know if you interpret a post differently than me if you want. Please let me know your opinions if you have them.

Don’t worry I also want to be respectful to those who don’t like Billy because you have ur reasons to not like his character and connect to fiction however you want to connect to fiction. I want to make things clear I’m not trying to make a moral condemnation of anyone who has engaged in the behavior I critic in this post. There are much bigger problems in the world but I’m so passionate about this one because I’m a person of color who connects to Billy’s story arc and the way some antis treat Billy fans is just cruel. Billy fans are real people who exist and their stories have real life consequences. Online harassment in fandom is not excusable because it is still harassment.

This post is long as FUCK and will have different parts but even tho it’s long I find the conversation to still be interesting so keep that in mind if you read I’ll try to reblog it and pinned it on my blog for ease. There’s a lot to discuss and this conversation should be dealt with care. I will also have the different parts linked at the end of each post. ( I’m also a stupid teenager pls be kind)

I worked so hard on this.

Please share this if you want because I believe our fandom can combat the environment of harassment online we see. Nobody deserve this type of treatment for hyper-fixating on a fictional character that gives them comfort!

Tw for all parts// harassment, racism, discussion of abuse, and abuse apologia, death threats, spoilers for strangers things season 1-3

Tw for this part// harassment, racism, fictional suicide mentioned

I have taken screenshots to reference and prove the behavior I critic but I have gotten rid of all identifying content as to avoid further harassment. Please don’t go out looking to harass anyone. Let me know if I need to add any warnings. this is a somewhat serious, heavy, and layered discussion. We are talking about how humans connect to fiction here so it’s bound to be complex.

[important Note for entire series] All these posts are recent by the way just to show case the harassment is still and ongoing issue even tho Billy has been “ dead” for quite a while now. He might have killed him self but Billy is still my rat man. let me love 😍him.

The Harassment of Billy Hargrove Fans #1

“Okay let’s get started”

Assumptions and cruel judgments of Billy fans

In this Twitter post someone makes the assertion that being a Billy Hargrove fan is a red flag. I’m aware that this is not a tumblr user but I have seen some of this sentiment on tumblr. I will begin by criticizing this post because someone being a fan of a fictional character doesn’t make them and inherent threat to anybody’s personhood. I get that the person who posted this may even agree with what I just argued, that Billy fans aren’t a real life threat, but that’s not what is being communicated at all when someone reads this especially when a fan of Billy reads this. And if someone out there does believe this for one reason or another I’m going to continue to dispute your claim. Some Billy fans might engage in problematic behavior but to hold a layer of apprehension towards all fans of a character because of this might be something you need to reevaluate. Making a moral judgment on real human beings because they like a character is not okay especially if you don’t even know the reasoning.

Just because someone likes a character that might be a mass murderer in fiction doesn’t mean that now they support massacres, correct? Same logic applies here if someone does interpret Billy as racist but still likes his character that does not mean they think racism in the real world is okay ( or bullying, harassment, or anti feminism either) and that does not mean they can’t organize against real world problems effectively.

This is a crude assumption

First things first not every who likes Billy ships Harringrove

As a Harringrove shipper I can only speak for myself and say I could give less of a fuck if Billy is “good” or “bad”. That’s doesn’t mean he doesn’t want to smash king Steve. That’s also doesn’t mean he can’t be queer and it doesn’t mean I can’t like the ship. And it doesn’t mean that I can’t connect to Billy on a disastrously queer level ( got that phrasing from a grade A post on this hell site)

Believing Billy can see the errors in his ways and can heal and become a “good” person… doesn’t have to be a byproduct of being a shipper. it can just be a read someone has of a character so “anon” no disrespect to ya but your thinking is wrong.

Okay this is gonna be lengthy

Fine some Billy fans ignore the shit he did… but that’s not inherently bad. Fans can headcannon Billy into a completely different portrayal than what we see on screen and love him I don’t see a problem with that especially when they aren’t excusing any abuse.

The Duffers brothers failed at exploring racism in their show if that was their intention. Point blank period since this is a form of art it can be interpreted in many different perspectives. Especially if it is not tied to any explicit themes on racism in the text. I interpret Billy’s actions as racist but no one has to do so if they connect to the story in a different manner. I felt the weight of Billy’s “ certain type of people” comment. However it was only and implication not a confirmation. Stop being mad at people for not interpreting something left up to interpretation.The writers didn’t explicitly tackle the issue they wanted to tackle.

This might be helpful 2 know …I interpret Billy as racist, I’m also black, I also Stan Billy Hargrove.

Okay here we go… no-one has to interpret Billy’s actions as being racist so why assume that if someone likes Billy it’s because they’re racist just like him… if they don’t even think he’s racist. I hope that makes sense

I think Billy is racist 4 sure the story flows better for me that way and it makes a lot of sense to me. Now let’s talk about racism in the real world … racism is something that is taught. Racism is a big large system we are all conditioned into. Racism is something we must all unlearn in the real world. So in the fictional world I think there is an entertaining plot line that Billy can go down and unlearn his racism +stop beating up on children Billy 🤦🏿‍♀️. Because I see that potential growth that is why I like his character. Oh and no one ever talks about this but I head cannon Billy as fat phobic because of the “lard- ass” comment so my version of Billy is working through that as well.

I don’t wanna sound all high and mighty I can understand why someone might express this sentiment. I’m not gonna demonize someone who is black like me (black people have dealt with that enough). I also get why you would not even like Billy if you interpret him as racist. [Someone could have the same analysis of Billy as me and still not like him because how we connect to fiction is somewhat irrational.] I would just ask that we don’t jump to conclusions about anyone’s politics because of how they like a fictional character. That we treat other members in our fandom with respect.

I can never and will never excuse racism because if I do I would be turning a blind eye on a system that kills my loved ones. Your allowed to not like Billy Hargrove honestly I don’t see any Billy fans who care? Stop making crude assumptions about people who do Stan Billy Hargrove ur “ joke” is a hurtful misrepresentation.

Lol like #notallbillyfans am I right guys 👉🏿

*crickets sounds and booing*

okay sorry let’s move on…

The problem I hope i highlighted is that you can not make inherent claims to thy morals of a human being because they like a fictional character.😂

Stand alone post: Me reading to much into the politics of Billy Hargrove/ Harringrove

THE 5 PART SERIES ON HARASSMENT:

#2 #3 #4 #5

#billy hargrove #harringrove #anti harringrove #anti billy hargrove #will byers #byler #elmax #el hopper #jane byers #bob newby #kali prasad #jonathan byers #nancy wheeler #jim hopper #max mayfield #robin buckley #stranger things #mike wheeler #lucas sinclair #joyce byers

[reallyprofoundkryptonite]

Talking About Problems Within the Fandom Surrounding Krogan

Now, this is a very tough topic to talk about. If you do not feel comfortable with any of the talk of the following topics PLEASE do not read this. For your own safety. I care far more about the safety and comfort of my followers than I do about me getting notes on a rant post.

This is 3000+ words, so long post warning.

I am not going to be naming any names. I am not going to be putting out the titles of fiction that I have read that contain these topics. I do not want any forms of harm or harassment to come to the users that created the fiction due to this post, because this post is meant to be informative, and while you don't need to listen to some rando adhd person who's too hyped on coffee to be good for her, there are some negative stereotypes towards people who are abused going around.

------------------

WARNINGS: TALK OF RACISM, RAPE/NON-CON, SELF HARM, AND ABUSE. (AS WELL AS A MINOR MENTION OF PEDOPHILIA) PLEASE DO NOT CONTINUE IF YOU DO NOT WANT TO TALK OR READ ABOUT THINGS ALONG THIS SORT.

ANY AND ALL COMMENTS THAT ARE COMPLAINING ABOUT THE WARNING NOT BEING NOTICEABLE ENOUGH WILL BE DELETED AND/OR IGNORED DEPENDING ON THE SEVERITY OF THE COMMENT.

This will be continued underneath the cut.

Introduction

For an introduction, this is very much not my usual content. I try to keep the environment on my blog as happy and exciting as possible. But this, the treatment towards Krogan himself as a character by parts of the fandom, is abhorrent. I will be coming right out and saying that I do not at all agree with any of his on screen actions that can be typically seen as “bad”. I do not condone his potentially harmful actions that have been depicted in the show, however, those actions do not deem him as a bad egg. As an evil man.

It is blatantly obvious based on the treatment of Drago Bludvist’s other slaves, that Krogan was and is abused. His personality is another indicator towards this theory. I will be going over this in depth once I get to this point in my rant, and why I am bringing this up is because of the fact that some parts of the fandom tend to say that he is abusive, or even just plain evil or just blatantly malicious in his actions, and don’t take a moment to look at the bigger picture.

The second point I will be introducing is the racism that is blatantly forced at Krogan. (By both the fans, and the creators of HTTYD themselves.) That will be talked about in a bit, but until then, I will start making my first point.

Part One: The Abuse

I have been reading fanfiction for a long, long time. And, while I do tend to get hooked on certain characters in media, I have always known if that one character is problematic. And yes, I do believe that Krogan can technically be considered a problematic character. At least, if one looks at him from the surface level. If one only looks at a character’s actions, there are plenty of characters that are considered to be “good” that can also be deemed to be problematic, if it weren’t because we knew that they had good intentions.

But with Krogan, we are only given a fraction of the time with him that we are given with any other character, minus Johann, and some of the characters from the movies like Drago and Grimmel. But, as someone who knows body language, and understands the signs and symptoms of potential abuse, I know differently. I know there’s more underneath his skin that we DON’T see. That we are not given TIME to see. We are not given time to see the man he is underneath that craggy, hard shell of indifference that he wears as protection.

The reason why he’s rude, the reason why he is cruel, he’s cold, or can even be considered to be standoffish, is entirely because of how other people have treated him. We have already seen that he brands people, therefore making people slaves. He owns them. Krogan is no different. Drago rules through fear. He rules through threats, through beatings at the smallest of mistakes. With death for failures. He abuses his troops to keep them in line and completely subservient to him and him alone. Krogan can be assumed to be kept relatively close to Drago. I am not going to put any of my own headcanon in here, because that would be opinionated and biased, but the fact that we can assume that Krogan is close to Drago does not mean that he is evil via association. That fact might even give Drago more access to abusing Krogan.

Now that the elephant in the room is absolutely out of the way, I am going to be going over the ways the fandom handles his character. I have seen plenty of users handle his story well, and I have also seen plenty that do not. Krogan is a complex character, I’ve already handled this statement, however, the fact that parts of the fandom handle him as being abusive himself, is utterly mind-boggling. In most, if not all cases, (mind you I am no expert on this.) The abused are RARELY an abuser themselves.

So, the fact that I see so many fanworks where Krogan is considered to be an abuser himself… it’s sickening. I have seen fanworks where Krogan has raped characters (fan characters, sometimes.) I cannot FATHOM where people have gotten the idea that Krogan would ever want to FORCE himself onto someone. Krogan is not a sexual character to me, and to a few other people on tumblr as well. He shows no interest in Dagur when the other is blatantly flirting with him, and in fact he just doesn’t… seem at all interested in sex. He does not seem interested in having intercourse with someone, if anyone.

There are parts of the fandom who believe he would be abusive to children, if he ever had them, and that’s also wrong. Krogan is a childhood abuse survivor himself due to Drago’s treatment! I very highly doubt that he would ever want to put a child through what he went through or had to go through when he was young. Krogan doesn’t even like kids, and he would not put someone through something like that because he had his innocence stolen at a young age, and he would not want the same to happen to a child. He would hate it. If he accidentally hurt a child he would hate himself for it, because now they would be scared of him. He doesn’t like people being scared of him, unless he absolutely needs to be scary in order to get people to listen to him, because he doesn’t have any idea to get people to listen to him otherwise.

And even then, unless it is for the purpose of gaining information from someone. He will not touch anyone underneath the strict purpose of him hating being touched himself, and he doesn’t understand how people like being touched.

He’s weird. He understands that. People think he is extremely weird. He does not act normal. He has odd body language, he is cold, he is standoffish, and yet he is still a deep and extremely fascinating character because he NEVER CHOSE for his life to be as fucked as it is. He never chose to be turned into Drago’s pet monster. When he was taken from his family he was most likely just a little boy. And underneath that shell, underneath all of that hard exterior, is still a glittering fragment of that little boy. Of that scared little boy who was stolen from his home and just wanted to be with his family. Who just wants someone to actively care about him. To not just think of him as a tool or a weapon or a monster.

It might have been because we never really got any time with him, but not ONCE did we ever get to see Krogan with just enough clothing to cover up wounds or bruises. Just enough clothing to hide the signs of abuse. Of self harm. His lower arms are always covered by protective bracers to hide the scars there. To hide the shame of him harming himself because he does not know how to cope with the complex and terrifying emotions that are constantly roaring through his veins. The anxiety of never being good enough for Drago. The hatred of being considered stupid compared to other people.

Krogan is a complex character. Krogan is not an abuser. He is not a rapist. And he is only cruel when he absolutely needs to be. His craving for seeing other people in pain is a coping mechanism. One of many. Most of them, harmful towards himself.

Part Two: The Racism

Other people have talked about this. This is an old topic of discussion in the httyd fandom, so I will not linger on it like I did with the previous topic.

I have seen plenty of people suggest that Krogan is roman, or that he is Dagur and Heather’s father. The last one is statistically impossible. Krogan looks nothing like Oswald, for one thing, and the fact that the team reused his model for the scene with Oswald is still absolute bullshit. It was a lazy decision on the team’s part, but that is besides my point.

If Krogan were to be Heather and Dagur’s father, one or both of them would have ended up with HIS FEATURES. Brown eyes is a dominant trait. So is the curly, black hair that Krogan has. Dagur would most definitely not ended up as a redhead with green eyes, let alone the fact that Krogan is in his early thirties at the oldest. Meaning, for him to be Heather and Dagur’s father he would have been around TEN. TEN. A LITERAL FUCKING CHILD. Do not come at me with the whole “Oh but he looks much older than thirty-.” No. NO. Do not bring that up. Krogan looks far older than he actually is because he has a beard, number one, but also because he rarely gets any good sleep, which can cause premature aging, as well as having a stressful life, which, by the way… yeah- if you’ve read this far, you would understand. If you are going to argue with me like that then you are practically supporting pedophilia for the racist headcanon that is Krogan being Heather and Dagur’s father. (Which is an already unfounded, racist, and incomprehensiblly stupid idea in the first place.)

On the fact of Krogan being Roman. There is no way he is Roman. He’s definitely far darker than any European race. Stop. Please. I know Romans have darker skin than average, but Krogan does not have skin that light.

Epilogue

Now, I realize I might have gotten a little angry throughout this thing, but the absolute crazy shit I see on the internet sometimes drives me up the wall. Especially when I see people going crazy over characters like Dagur and Viggo and saying that they have done nothing wrong, despite the fact that they are both problematic in their own ways. (For one, Viggo tried to starve an entire village just because they were working with the just barely adult that he was fighting against, and also probably wanted to fuck, as well as releasing a disease that was so deadly that it would kill people in mere days, just because he knew he would make a lot of money off of it.)

Anyways, if you read this far, congrats! You get a cookie! (Or whatever your favorite food is!) Thank you for spending your time reading this, even though I’m probably just screaming into a void.

#krogan httyd #httyd #krogan #httyd rtte #krogan rtte #rtte #httyd fanart #httyd fandom #rtte krogan #tw: racisim #tw: self harm #tw: child abuse #tw: rape #character study

[applecherry108]

Can i ask you something about star wars? (You're like, the only person I follow on tumblr who has watched it). Why do people hate on reylo and kylo ren so much? For what i've seen it's only "m/f ships bad" mentality, but if you're willing to take the risk of talk about this on a post, I would really want to listen, because I tried to do research but I literally do Not find anything.

Always happy to talk about Star Wars. :)

So…. It’s several factors for why people hate(d) reylo.

1) like any popular ship there were some louder, more obnoxious fans that rubbed others the wrong way.

2) people liked to call kylo ren an abuser in 2015, because he’s, yknow, a villain. And he does bad things. Because of this, reylo became synonymous with r*pe/abuse apologists.

3) Star Wars is a fandom that saw twins kiss in Empire, which is traumatic for younger fans (fucking hilarious to older fans lbr), and loads of people were saying Rey and Kylo might be related, so on top of “reylo is abusive” now you had “reylo is inc*st”. (Keep in mind, this is before Last Jedi or Rise of Skywalker, so speculation was enough to start fandom wars).

4) since Rey and kylo are both white and because Rey had like, actual chemistry with Finn in Force Awakens, reylos also got called racist for not shipping Rey with Finn (didn’t matter if you were a multi-shipper, if you liked reylo, u were called racist)

5) all of these combined have left a sour taste in many fans’ mouths, to the point that now in 2021, some people might not even remember or know why they don’t like reylo. It was just peak Problematic™️ content when Problematic was at its scariest, which is the impression many casual fans were left with.

Conclusion: I mean, I like reylo. I’ve always liked reylo. And I thought other reylo shippers were generally nice people (usually older ladies like me lmfao). I’m not like, super happy how reylo actually became canon, and I think the divisive nature of Last Jedi and the….quality concerns…..of Rise certainly didn’t help public opinion of the ship, especially within fandom where it was already viewed negatively, but at the end of the day, reylo is fine. It’s whatever you wanna make of it, and tbh I think now that the Star Wars fandom has cooled off a little with distance from Rise, I think reylo is becoming more “acceptable” now.

Bonus: Why do people hate Kylo Ren? He’s a white boy. That’s….basically it. It’s tragically funny actually, because all the criticism within fandom of why kylo “sucks” are actually key points of his character. “He’s a rip-off Darth Vader!” That’s the point. “He’s trying too hard!” That’s the point. Unfortunately, many fans read this complex tumultuous character as, “uwu soft white boy just misunderstood,” and were highly critical about a possible redemption.

And also coming back to “racism,” because of Finn and Poe, some loud sections of fandom got Big Mad that anyone would like the white villain when there were excellent poc protagonists. Which like… you can like multiple characters, but I digress.

Sad note: people love to make fun of Adam Driver. Which is shitty on multiple levels. I am not here for anyone who promotes body positivity but then turns around and makes fun of “ugly” white boys because they’re an easy punching bag. Like Adam has said in multiple interviews that he got bullied for his looks growing up, and it’s just so fucking shitty that fans would perpetuate that because they don’t like his character.

Final Conclusion: I know I’ve talked about “racism” a lot here and it may sound like I’m crying about reverse racism (I’m not), I’m simply relaying the trends of the times, which was, in fandom, to lift poc characters and actors up by stepping on their white costars. Which fandom did. And it’s mostly grown out of doing so thankfully. John Boyega and Oscar Isaac are incredible actors and wonderful people, and though their potential was squandered throughout the sequel trilogy, Finn and Poe are still great characters imo. But the vitriol of 2015 left a lasting impression on many fans that remains to this day.

#long post #thanks for the ask. I am a fandom grandma. let me pass on my knowledge lmao #apple talks #reylo discourse

[spaceshipkat]

i think so much of writing respectfully and inclusively is being aware of what you’re putting down on the page. what do i mean by this? what better author to focus on than sj///m, right? i’ll start with CCity on this, since it’s the one where it’s most obvious she’s trying so hard to fix her mistakes, but the problem always comes back to her fundamental misunderstanding of why and how her shit is problematic in the first place and what she must do to fix said problematic shit. 

i’m sticking this under a cut bc, surprise surprise, i rambled 😌

take, for instance, Hunt: i think it’s pretty widely-accepted he’s coded as a MOC, (potentially an Asian-coded man) since he’s given “golden-brown skin” and “angular” eyes. sj//m was trying to be more inclusive by writing him in such a way that he shouldn’t be perceived as white, but what she failed to realize is two big things: 1) the fact he’s a slave of centuries who is constantly tortured, mutilated, and manipulated by his oppressors, and 2) the fact he lusts after and is demeaned by Bruce, a white girl. furthermore, Bruce constantly makes comments about how Hunt should fight back, shouldn’t allow himself to remain a slave, and taunts him into either disobeying Micah (the man he’s enslaved to) or killing for her. it’s made clear time and time again that Hunt doesn’t like that he’s an assassin for Micah, and yet there are so many instances of him wanting to kill or hurt someone for Bruce, which not only makes his characterization inconsistent, it plays into the problematic trope of the dark-skinned aggressor (a trope that sj///m seems to be particularly fond of, what with the Illyrians). 

(on the topic of Hunt, a quick side-note: the idea of the “alphahole” that comes up again and again in CCity and that antis have critiqued up the wazoo (though not with the “alphahole” colloquialism until CCity came along, but i don’t think many antis actually use “alphahole” as anything but a joke when talking about her obvious love of the hypermasculine alpha male). sj///m is clearly trying to call out her past mistakes and work to rectify them going forward, but she completely fails bc she only succeeds at 1) mocking her readers, who are often fans of hers bc they like the alpha male douchebag sj///m is infamous for, and 2) making herself sound like an idiot when she calls out “alphahole” behavior while actively writing “alphaholes” and making them (possible) endgame love interests (i say possible bc it’s anyone’s guess if sj///m will actually subvert everyone and their mother’s expectations by making Hunt endgame). Hunt is an “alphahole,” even if he’s not quite as bad as riceman or rowboat and even if sj///m thinks she’s not actually writing an “alphahole”. with his aforementioned behavior toward anyone who’s mean to Bruce (aka wanting to kill them for her), he still falls under the “alphahole” category.

but i digress.)

another example of sj///m writing without being aware of what she’s actually putting on the page is her inclusion of queer rep. sj///m queerbaits quite a lot with Danika, thanks to lines she has involving Bruce and her relationship with Bruce, not to mention how many times others wonder if Bruce and Danika are “just” best friends and not actually lovers. we have Hunt wonder about it, after all, several times iirc. one that stands out the most is when he says that they have to be more than “just” best friends because Bruce doesn’t mourn Danika like someone mourns “just” their best friend, thus implying that Bruce is mourning Danika like a lover and/or spouse (bc obviously people can’t be torn to pieces over losing their best friend in a horrific attack, right?). 

here’s some lines that have romantic connotations bc i am nothing if not a historian who likes citations: 

page 38 of my ebook: 

Danika just said it. “If he grabs his phone to check his messages before his dick’s barely out of you again, please have the self-respect to kick his balls across the room and come home to me.” 

page 45 of my ebook: 

But it was Danika’s added “Love you” as [Bruce] slipped out into the grimy hallway that made her hesitate with her hand on the knob. 

It’d taken Danika a few years to save those words, and she still used them sparingly. Danika had initially hated it when [Bruce] said them to her—even when [Bruce] explained that she’d spent most of her life saying it, just in case it was the last time. In case she wouldn’t get to say goodbye to the people who mattered most. And it had taken one of their more fucked-up adventures[...]to get Danika to utter the words, but at least she now said them. Sometimes. 

page 258 of my ebook (aka the line of Hunt’s i referenced above): 

The silence pressed on [Hunt] enough that he asked, “Were you and Danika lovers?” 

He’d been told two years ago that they weren’t, but friends didn’t mourn each other the way [Bruce] seemed to have so thoroughly shut down every part of herself. The way he had for Shahar. 

[...]

Hunt turned in place as [Bruce] padded around the other end of the kitchen island, flinging open the enormous metal fridge to examine its meager contents. “No,” [Bruce] said, her voice flat and cold. “Danika and I weren’t like that.” 

page 696 of my ebook: 

[Bruce] swallowed, looking at the ground that was not earth, but the very base of Self, of the world. She whispered, “I’m scared.”

Danika grabbed her hand again. “That’s the point of it, [Bruce]. Of life. To live, to love, knowing that it might all vanish tomorrow. It makes everything that much more precious.” She took [Bruce’s] face in her hands and pressed their brows together. 

page 700 of my ebook (and i was torn on including this one, but it’s from Danika, so i think i should): 

Danika had whispered, “I love you,” before fading into nothing, her hand sliding from Bryce’s.

page 703 of my ebook (also torn on this, but it does sound a little queer, so): 

But it wasn’t okay. Not even close. What had happened, what [Bruce had] done and revealed, the Horn in her body, all those people dead, Lehabah dead, and seeing Danika, Danika, Danika—

Her breathless words turned into pants, and then shuddering sobs.

also, not for nothing, but the fact Danika dies without an actual male love interest to make Her Straightness Obvious kinda also implies she’s queer, but *sips tea*

furthermore, there’s the way sj///m writes Fury and Juniper: we see the two women together in one scene, in which Juniper is fetishized and goes to sleep with some random guy. for the rest of the book, they never interact on-page and thus we are never given the chance to see their dynamic, which would provide crucial context clues to what their relationship really is by the time this exchange happens between Fury and Bruce on page 494 of my ebook:

“And yet you can still talk to Juniper?” Bryce’s throat closed up. “I wasn’t worth the risk to you?”

Fury hissed, “Juniper and I have something that is none of your fucking business.” Bryce refrained from gaping. Juniper had never hinted, never suggested—“I could no sooner stop talking to her than I could rip out my own fucking heart, okay?”

“I get it, I get it,” Bryce said. She blew out a long breath. “Love trumps all.”

i’ve talked about this scene to death, but this is written in such a way that it can be read as “just” best friends or as two women in a romantic relationship, depending on the reader. the fact that Bruce “gapes” (which faerug also does to Mor, and which i talk about below) implies that being openly queer isn’t accepted in this world, that it’s not very likely you’ll see two women holding hands as they walk down the sidewalk or kiss at a romantic restaurant. it also implies that Bruce, no matter that she says about “love trumps all,” might not be as accepting as sj///m would like us to believe. maybe sj///m has never had a friend come out to her before, but if i came out to someone and they gaped at me (and i’ve come out to several people several times now, both about my sexuality and my gender, so i have some experience here), i don’t think i would be very happy with them/want to remain their friend. 

on the note of queer rep in sj///m’s work, Mor is another fantastic example of trying to be inclusive through a response to criticism without sj///m being aware of what, exactly, she’s writing. Mor comes out because faerug all but forces her to by not shutting up what a good guy Azriel is and that Mor should just give him a chance. that right there is fucked on so many levels, not just because Mor is a lesbian, but bc she’s supposedly faerug’s friend. no one should ever force their friends to date someone they don’t want to (i’ve had this happen to me! i had to literally snap at my friend to get her to back off bc i wasn’t going to go to the dance with this one guy who ignored my every rejection and bought us tickets to winter formal, just bc he’s a nice guy and i might like him if i gave him a chance), but i don’t think sj///m could figure out how else to write Mor’s coming out scene, largely bc she has no fucking clue how disgusting the scene we’re given is. the problem with Mor being a lesbian is threefold: 1) she’s a woman who was tortured by her father and left to die bc she was no longer a virgin; 2) Azriel spends centuries lusting after a woman who makes it clear time and again that she does not reciprocate his feelings and yet he cannot take the fucking hint, so much so that sj///m has to now dangle Elain in front of him like a piece of meat to get him to let go of Mor; and 3) sj///m was obviously setting up Mor and Azriel to be an endgame couple in ac0maf, as evidenced both in canon and in her pinterest board: 

even stans picked up on it, what with their vocal outrage over how Mor “led Azriel on” for centuries instead of just outing herself to a man she obviously does not feel safe around, and posts like these: 

and fanart like this: 

the tl;dr of this ramble is this: if you want to write inclusively and respectfully, you have to be 100% aware of everything you’re putting on the page. when people ask for advice on this kind of thing, my first comment is to always say they’re already on the right track bc they’re already thinking of this, rather than being unaware of problems bc a state of unawareness is where the problems begin to appear. Hafsah Faizal has talked about this before on her twitter (i wish i could find the tweet, but this is from eons ago), but if you write a character of color when you yourself are white, you have to be wholly conscious of how your white character talks to this character of color. if the character of color is constantly yelled at or ordered around or ignored by the white character, that’s a big problem. if you write a queer character when you yourself are straight, you have to be conscious of how your queer character comes out, is perceived by the reader, and is treated by the straight character. if the queer character comes out by comparing their bisexuality to forced prostitution, as is the case with Aedion and Lysandra in t0g, that’s a big problem. 

the moment you share your work for public consumption, it no longer matters what your intentions are (something sj///m has a lot of trouble understanding, hence why she over-explains everything in her interviews and on tours, not to mention why she force-feeds us her opinion of her characters in canon so we’re forced to share the exact same outlook on them) bc all that matters is what you’ve put down on the page. your words, at that point, have no choice but to speak for themselves, and if they do any of the above, your work is going to come under warranted critique, and unless you learn from that critique and do more than half-assed jobs to write more inclusively and respectfully, you’ll run into the exact same problems that sj///m has with CCity. 

#anti sjm #anti ccity #anti acotar #anti tog #long post #stans being stans #writing advice #writing tips #sorta

[polandspringz]

Poland’s Thoughts on the OM Angel Event

AKA- I’m trying to bridge this divide in the fandom that only seems to worsen with every piece of new content

So, I just finished the new event, but before I even finished it I saw in the tags a lot of people posting about it and the majority of the reactions were negative. There’s a chance I’m reading the language in the posts a little too strongly, but I think that a lot of this anger towards the developers is misplaced, and this isn’t just limited to the OM fandom, but it is one example that can be representative of a growing issue in how we as fans consume media and interpret content, especially when it extends to how we interact with the creators of said content.

To begin, I understand what people are angry about with this event. They disliked the way the brothers were forced against their will (consent is a term I am seeing thrown around on a few posts) to act righteous, due to the bangles Simeon gave on them that were imbued with magic. People are upset seeing the brothers acting so unlike themselves, Diavolo’s role in it, as both an instigator and bystander, and how Simeon was characterized throughout this event as he largely did not see much wrong with what was happening.

I think the reason so many players are leaving this event with a sour taste is because of the lack of closure. I was taking notes on the entire event and waiting for the end to undo everything like usual and we get the characters discussing how happy they were to be back to normal again or we at least get some of their own thoughts on the experience. I was surprised that we did not get that this time, instead, we only see all the brothers continue to act unlike themselves under the spell, way too cheery and perfect with only Lucifer having partially broken the spell and watching on amused, acting as another bystander in the event. We are given the implication that the rest will return to normal in due time (somewhat like the ending of the Paws event, if I am recalling correctly) but it’s not concrete enough. We should have been given at least an extra few lines of dialogue of the characters back to normal giving their comments on the situation they went through, but because we didn’t, they don’t have any autonomy still, and we as the players are left uncertain about what is our interpretation and what is canon.

However, despite us missing this ending scene, I think the narrative of the event is undeniably still about the idea of one’s true self being important, flaws and all, and I think a lot of players are missing this concept.

When I said earlier that I think many fandoms are suffering from this problem, I’m referring to this problem where fans will gleam a theme from a work, often times it is a theme meant to showcase something problematic, and then the fans will turn on the authors and go “well it’s problematic so the creators’ are in the wrong”, forgetting that the only reason they’re interpreting it as being wrong is because the creators’ intentionally added that frame into the story. I have more strong feelings about this in the BNHA fandom, but for now, let’s stick to the OM fandom and this specific event:

1) Players are mad that the brothers were forcibly changed and not acting like themselves.

This is a valid thing to be angry about, but I am surprised seeing how many people are ignoring the fact that you as the player are given options to acknowledge that you dislike the “righteous” way the characters are being forced to behave. There are multiple points throughout this event where, when the brothers are apologizing or explaining the MC how much they’ve changed, that you can chose an option to say “I liked the old you”, “There’s something off,” or something akin to that. OM does have an issue with a lot of the dialogue options for the MC being a bit too passive, but in this event, you are not forced to like the behavior. During my playthrough of it, I actually refused to kiss some of the characters and almost exclusively told them I disliked the way they were acting even if it was something good like giving to charity in Mammon’s case.

In terms of the brothers’ being forced to act this way against their will, although the overall event does not paint this in a dark tone (it treats the brothers’ actions the same way it does any of their individual scenes with MC in other events), there are pieces of dialogue that help create this theme of choice and free will. In the first set of lessons, Beel says to the MC “It’s something I want to do, not because I’m obligated to.” A few lessons later, Belphegor says “It’s the first time I’ve felt so free.” There is blatant irony in these lines because we as the players know that there is nothing about freedom or wants/personal desires coming from these characters in this state. It’s not even dramatic irony because the MC witnessed and knows that the brothers are under a spell, hence why you can still say you miss how they were acting and that Solomon even acknowledges that things feel wrong. When I see players comment about how they are upset about the brothers being forced to act this way, I don’t understand how they are mad at the writers when it is written in the way that you are supposed to know their words are disingenuous. I will admit that the light hearted tone does offset it and make it seem as if the developers are painting their actions in a good light, but we as the MC are constantly given the option to say that something is wrong. This is not a matter of the developers seeing it as a “good” thing, but they leave it up to the player to make the choice to choose whether to embrace the way the brothers are acting as a positive thing (and personally all the options where you agree with the controlled actions of the brothers’ made me feel as though- if I chose them- that MC was not in a healthy, truthful relationship with the brothers).

In terms of the “consent” argument being thrown around, it is a valid word choice to use in this situation, however, I am surprised to see no one talking about the scene with Lucifer directly involving consent with MC. In lesson 1-12, when you are in his room with him, he asks you to get on the bed, and then pushes you down before the spell controlling him corrects his actions and he apologizes. It is not shown that he pushes you, but the flow of the scene is this-

Lucifer asks MC to get on the bed. Noise is then heard as if someone was putting weight on the bed and Lucifer says “You really trust me quite a lot,” before he says “I didn’t mean to push you down like that.”

Some players may have read it as the MC getting on the bed themselves, and whether Lucifer pushed them onto the bed is debatable, but it’s heavily implied that he at the very least pushes you down onto the bed. I think if anything, the use of the word consent in terms of this event needs to be applied here, as Lucifer forces the MC down without their consent (player is not given an option about whether to comply with his request) before the angelic-form makes him apologize for what he did. I normally am against the people who dislike how evil the demons act (they’re demons! They’re meant to be acting sinful or wrong or disagreeable with our own morals) but I just thought that if people are going to talk about consent in terms of the brothers, we should acknowledge how the theme of consent and choice is also shown in scenes like this, where the spell on Lucifer actually does a good thing by correcting his behavior when he was doing something wrong.

However, there is one more point I want to make about this event, and it follows this discussion about the demon’s behavior-

2) This event, had it been given closure, would’ve had a strong theme of accepting oneself.

This is most clearly seen with Levi and Satan. With Satan, we are aware of his dislike of his rage, his wrath. He does not like to get angry, and puts on masks to try and seem better than his core sin makes him feel. However, when he gets turned into an angel, he specifically says:

“Perhaps that’s why I feel so strange. I don’t feel like myself at all. I end up thinking about if I were an angel, would i have looked and felt like this? And then... I get a foreboding feeling. Like, my heart... becoming tranquil. Normally, that wouldn’t seem like something bad right? Something isn’t right.”

Once again, I would like to point out that the reason that players are able to look at this event and say, “The brothers are being forced to not act like themselves, and that’s bad and upsets me as a player” is because the writers themselves are writing into the story that it is bad. Satan is directly acknowledging that he dislikes what is going on, hence why we as players can say that something is wrong. This isn’t my core analysis of this dialogue, but once again, it is something I am growing tired of seeing people attack or complain about the creators for writing something that is “bad”, as if the creators did not write in the fact that “this is a bad thing.” You can criticize media and the way things are written, but if you are going to ignore the fact that what you’re claiming the writers are ignoring has already been written, your criticism holds little weight.

Moving on, my main takeaway from this scene was that Satan, a character who has spent so long loathing his anger and how he loses himself during it, was upset by his lack of it. We as the MC got very little dialogue in this scene to push the idea further, but to me it was clear that had the story been given more closure, or the events having more story to include more focus on each character, we could have gotten more of a direct statement from Satan of something like “I always disliked my rage, but without it, I don’t feel like me. I’m who I am because of my rage, it’s not something I should be ashamed of.” If that had been included, I’m sure players would have once again been much happier about this event. However, we shouldn’t need such a direct statement of character development to understand that development has happened. One of the biggest techniques about writing dialogue is the idea that when people talk, they don’t say everything, which I see a lot of fandoms griping about when characters don’t directly express things like trauma or abuse in concrete terms or have conversations where they directly say things like “You did something bad to me and I won’t forgive you for that” (I can’t think of the best example right now because it’s 2 AM but again, I have better examples when talking about the BNHA fandom). Ernest Hemingway and his iceberg technique focused on this idea of people rarely saying what they mean, and it’s a much more realistic approach to dialogue.

I’m not saying the writing of OM is anything near the works of great writers. However, I am saying that we shouldn’t need characters to be so unnatural and direct in their dialogue to be satisfied that development has been had or resolution has been met. It’s not natural for them to outright say so, and as readers we shouldn’t need such explicit confirmation of such things (note: when using “confirmation” I am only talking about instances of development, and not things like confirmed representation of LGBTQ or characters expressing their sexuality. Those are entirely different situations requiring different discussion. Please do not misconstrue my words).

Back to the themes of the choice and accepting oneself, I want to end this on the character that truly got the short end of this event- Levi. Levi was so instantaneously changed to have righteous actions and a similar mindset, and there was very little discussion on it within the game itself. However, although Levi does not express much outside of his “controlled” state in this event, when he talks about his “old lifestyle”, we as players can still get a lot from it:

“Huh? My identity? Was my identity solely based on me being an otaku? I’ve been using anime, manga, and games to hide all this time... Always looking down on others while locking myself away in my own world. But not anymore! Instead of spending all my time and energy on 2D stuff, I’m going to spend it on nurturing my relationships in the real world. Doesn’t that sound wonderful?”

It does not sound wonderful, because it brings up the questions of “Was there anything actually wrong with Levi’s lifestyle to begin with?” Sure, he was a shut in, and that can’t be healthy, and he had a bad self loathing issue, but, he found happiness in anime, manga, and games. He found happiness in sharing it with you the player. We know this from the main storyline, and so we know that Levi is obviously not truly thinking this, but unfortunately we never get to see a conclusion of his thoughts on this, and he is given no autonomy by the end of the event to comment on his words here. I will agree with people that Levi’s is the most upsetting, partially because it makes my fanfiction writer mind spin into thoughts of him trapped inside his body wanting to keep his things but being forced to throw them out. That is upsetting. But it is not something we should be attacking or getting mad at the writers for, because if you are reading the story right, it can be seen as meant to evoke that reaction. Likely if you are Levi stan, this scene upset you, and you should be unhappy to see him acting this way. You should know something’s wrong, because there was nothing wrong with how Levi was living before. But, the last big theme of the event is the idea of good vs. evil, or right vs. wrong, and as we are playing a game where the main idea is to romance demons, we are always going to be skewed to see the traditional “good” side (of Simeon and the angels) as not truly good, and the “bad” side (of the demons) as not really that bad. We can sympathize with them, we understand and feel upset at seeing them slighted by what is considered “good. I saw one person bring up the idea of this event evoking questions of ethics, and I agree, but I’m better at explaining things through philosophy. This event, especially for Simeon’s character, brings to mind questions of if the Celestial Realm in the game’s universe is actually good and has the best interests of others in mind, or if it is actually deeply flawed by its staunchness to what is considered goodness? (We can see similar discussions in shows like Good Omens.)

To conclude, I just want to finish up on Simeon’s character in this event. I saw many exclamations of “why would he do this? What’s wrong with him?” and I like to present the idea that Simeon is much stronger of a manipulator than we have been viewing him through the lens of “holy angel”. He writes TSL based on the brothers, he likely views them as content to inspire him. He does not care for them as deeply as we as the fandom may be twisting him to be. Overall, I find all these problems with reading and analyzing media to stem from people having trouble interpreting morally gray characters, themes, and actions, and often they claim an author is making something black and white when the author is actually directly telling the reader things are not black and white. OM is such a small fandom in the grand scheme of things, but rather than me rehashing an argument in a much larger fandom, this seemed like a refreshing, safer place to start.

If you read through all this, I do hope you enjoyed. My ask box is always open if you want to hear more of my thoughts.

#obey me #shall we date #obey me shall we date #obey me mammon #obey me lucifer #obey me leviathan #obey me satan #obey me beelzebub #obey me belphegor #obey me asmodeus #obey me simeon #obey me angels #obey me devs #poland's thoughts

[its-bound-to-get-loud]

Speculating about sexuality

It’s time to get a little controversial on this blog. Or at least talk about a controversial subject. I’ve recently seen some fandom discourse about this subject from multiple sources. A lot of people have the opinion that discussing a celebrity’s sexuality is a bad thing, something you shouldn’t do. I strongly disagree.

Full disclosure, I’m a Larrie. I’m a 1D fan who believes Harry and Louis are a couple. I’m also a 5SOS fan. Now I know many 5SOS fans seem to be wary of Larries in particular. I know some people have taken it too far sometimes. But also, it’s hard to compare Larry/1D to 5SOS in many ways, because Larry and 1D themselves have done a lot of things to encourage fans looking into things they normally might not. It feels to me as if 5SOS fans saw the things that happened in the 1D fandom, turned around and decided to do the exact opposite. This is a good thing in some ways, but it also leaves no room for critical thinking.

Now back to 5SOS. I’ve had a few conversations about this topic and what it comes down to is this. 5SOS are famous, they live a life that’s (partially) being seen by the public and the media. Now this will sound cold, but it’s a fact: 5SOS are a product. When we interact with them on social media, we interact with a product. In the end they want to keep selling their music to us. In order to do so, engaging with fans is part of their job. It doesn’t mean they don’t enjoy it, it doesn’t mean they’re not genuine. If you work in a supermarket part of your job may be stocking shelves. You have to do it because it’s your job, but that doesn’t mean you can’t enjoy it as well.

Part of the product that is 5SOS is their relationships. We see their girlfriends plastered over their social media, they mention them in interviews, etc. That’s not something they HAVE to do generally speaking. If we are to assume that (for argument’s sake) all 3 current 5SOS relationships are genuine, then they don’t have to show us their girlfriends if they don’t want to. This means they either choose to do so, because that’s what they want, or these girlfriends are being presented to us for a reason (PR, bearding, etc.). Which of these it is, is for you to decide. Both options make them become part of the product. We are allowed to question that product, since we are the ones consuming it. If the person in question has made comments that can be regarded as them hinting at not being straight they open the door even further. You cannot tell someone to come over and then slam the door in their face because they get too close.

If 5SOS want to they can keep their relationships private. Their social media profiles are not the same as ours. They are a representation of the product they are. A representation of their image. That’s why celebrities often have private profiles as well, where they can share private things that they don’t want to share with the public.

The 5SOS girlfriends themselves are a product as well. They all have careers that involve being in the public eye, they are just as well selling us a version of themselves. 2 public people dating does not mean we automatically HAVE to see that they are dating. Celebrities can keep things a secret or low-key if they want to. In fact, I’d dare to argue they have more tools to do so than you and I.  

You can look at it like this, if I’m buying a laptop I’m doing research online, I’ll check out reviews. I’ll ask questions at the store. I question the product before I buy it. That’s not that different from what we do as fans. Before we buy their music we question if this is a product we want to buy. Most of the time that’s an unconscious decision we make. Sometimes a product can becomes unsatisfactory after a while and we choose to move on from it. I know it sounds cold, but it’s not that different with celebrities. If 5SOS keep showing me their public girlfriends on their public social media, I get to question that. If I come to the conclusion that I think that what they are telling me is false. I get to discuss that. Being a fan does not equal always taking things at face value.

There’s also a double standard in this fandom. Some people are more than willing to yell about how problematic and toxic the girlfriends are in their opinion. Which means they are allowed to poke into (what they think is) a real relationship between 2 people. When Luke says Teeth is about Sierra, they question his words and don’t hesitate to say their relationship is toxic. But when it comes to sexuality suddenly that’s a no go. I am absolutely not a fan of the way some of the way girlfriends behave. As long as this happens in a fandom environment I am also fine with talking about that. But if you disapprove of one thing and then do something similar, maybe it’s time you start practicing what you preach or leave people to have their own opinions.

This doesn’t mean you should tell the guys directly that you think their relationship is not real or that you think they are not straight. You don’t harass their friends, their crew, and their family about this. Discussing a celebrity’s sexuality/relationship should stay limited to fandom spaces. With social media it’s a lot easier for celebrities to see what we say about them. Therefor I always suggest being mindful of what you say (they may be a product, but they are still people). Personally it’s why I enjoy Tumblr, because most celebrities don’t go on here and (most of the time) we can safely discuss things that are more difficult to discuss in a place like Twitter. I will say, just because we are questioning a product, it doesn’t mean we get to be rude in the process. You generally don’t go to the store and start yelling at the salesperson if you don’t agree with what they tell you.

People seem to think it’s disrespectful to say someone is gay. Why? Is there anything wrong with being gay? Absolutely not. We live in a society that’s very heteronormative, being straight is seen as the “default” sexuality. It should not be. If you’re going to argue that it’s disrespectful to say someone is gay, then please also don’t assume they are straight. You can have personal thoughts, sure. I have personal thoughts on the specific sexuality of the guys in 5SOS as well. But I keep in mind that my personal thoughts aren’t a fact. I could be wrong. So unless someone has specifically stated their sexuality it’s best to not assume anything and keep an open mind.

Then finally I want to briefly touch on a topic that goes hand in hand with what I’ve talked about: shipping. Some people have a problem with shipping when it comes to real people. For some people shipping is just enjoying the idea of 2 people together even if you think they aren’t. While other people truly believe in that relationship. There’s nothing wrong with any of that as long as it doesn’t become invasive. It all comes back to what I’ve said before. We are consuming a product. The relationships between the 5SOS guys are a huge part of that product. The chemistry between them is part of why we love them. I’m not saying they are pretending to like each other. I fully believe their chemistry is genuine, but it does help sell the product. It also means that sometimes the guys/their team plays into that chemistry to sell the product.

They guys should not have a problem with fans shipping them together, because it’s not up to them to decide that. They sell us their relationships, so we get to form opinions about that. If we stay in our own fandom space and do not become invasive by showing them or people around them fandom content (fics, headcanons, manips, etc.). Then they should not come into our spaces and invade stuff we enjoy in that space. I get super uncomfortable whenever I see celebrities reading fanfiction or being read fanfiction. Fanfiction about them is not for them. It’s made for fans to enjoy and they should stay away from that. I want to encourage you to go and read this answer* about shipping real people. Because sometimes other people’s words say it better than my own words ever could.

With that we have reached the end of this post. As usual I am always open to discuss this in an adult manner. If you feel like you have anything to add to this discussion, feel free to send me an ask/dm. Or reply to this post. If you like/agree with what I write I would love it if you reblogged this post. That’s the only way more people can see it. My blog is small, so reblogs are very much needed to keep the discussion going. Don’t think of coming in my inbox and yelling at me how everything I said is wrong and bad and awful, because it is only going to get you blocked. If you don’t agree, that’s fine, but I’m not going to tolerate any hate.

Finally, just because you are allowed to speculate and question whatever 5SOS or any other celebrity/influencer tells you, doesn’t mean you have to. If that’s not your cup of tea, then that is more than fine. The reason I wrote this post is because we need to stop making people who think critically about the things they are being told, feel guilty about what they do.

* Please note that the author of this post does not have anything to do with what has been written in this post. If you have a problem with anything in this post, please direct it to me and not them.

#5 Seconds Of Summer #5SOS #Ashton Irwin #Calum Hood #Luke Hemmings #Michael Clifford #original #sexuality

[phynali]

Canonization and Fandom Purity Culture

I wrote a 1k-word twitter thread (as proof that I am Not made for Twitter and it’s goddamn 240-character limit) and am pasting it here with edits and updates (it’s now 2k words). 

I have thoughts to share (which I know have been stated more eloquently before by others) about this trend of demanding/obsessing that certain ships become "canon" and how it overlaps with the rise of fandom purity culture.

Under the cut.

Here in 2021 there is a seemingly large and certainly loud and active contingent of online fandoms who desire (or even demand) "canon validation" for a given interpretation of a source material. This is more true with shipping than anywhere else.

First, it is important to note that the trend is not limited to queer ships or to any single fandom. In the past few years I've seen it for Riverdale, Voltron, Supernatural (perhaps most extreme?), The 100, etc., and less recent with the MCU, Sherlock, Teen Wolf, Hawaii 5-0, etc. It is a broad trend across ships, fandoms, and mediums.

So if it is more common for queer ships, it is hardly unique to them. Similarly, pretending that it is about queer representation is a clever misdirect to disguise the fact that it is most often about ships and shipping wars. If you ever need proof of that, consider that a character can be queer without being in a given relationship or reciprocating another character's affections. Thus a call for more/better queer rep itself is very different than a call for specific ships to be made canon.

Also note that when audiences frame it as wanting to recognize a specific *character* as queer, it is almost always in the context of a ship. Litmus test: would making that character queer but having them *explicitly reject* the other half of the ship be seen as a betrayal?

(Note: none or this is to say we shouldn't push for more queer rep and more *quality and well-written* queer rep! Just that that isn't what I'm talking about here, and not what seeking canon validation for a specific interpretation or a specific ship is almost ever about.)

Why does this matter?

the language of representation and social justice should not be co-opted to prop up ship wars

it is reciprocal with a trend toward increasing toxicity in transformative fandom spaces

Number 1 here is self-explanatory (I hope). Let's chat about 2.

Demands for canon validation correlate with a rise in fanpol / fandom purity culture. What is fandom purity culture (and fandom policing)? This toxic mentality is about justifying one's shipping preferences and aiming to be pure (non-problematic) in your fictional appetites regarding romance and sex.

Note that this purity culture is so named as it arises linearly from American Protestantism, conservative puritanical anxiety around thought crimes, and overlaps in many ways with terf ideologies and regressively anti-kink paradigms.

It goes like this: problematic content is "gross" and therefore morally reprehensible. Much like how queer sex/relationships get labelled as "gross" (Other) and thus morally sinful, or how kink gets labelled as "harmful" and thus morally wrong. The Problematic label is applied by fanpol to ships with offset age or power dynamics, complicated histories, and anything they choose to label as "harmful". As such, they would decry my comparison here to queerphobia itself as also being harmful, because their (completely fictional) targets are ~actually~ evil.

(The irony of this is completely lost on them).

This mode of interacting with creative works leaves no room to explore dark or erotic themes or dynamics which may exist in fiction but not healthily in reality. Gothic romance is verboten. Even breathe the word incest and you will be labelled a monster (nevermind Greek tragedy or GoT).

As with most puritanical bullshit, fanpol ideology only applies these beliefs to sex and never to violence/murder/etc, proving what lies at its core. It also demands its American-based values be applied to all fictional periods and places as the One True Moral Standard. It evangelizes – look no further than how these people try to recruit others to their cause, aim to elevate themselves as righteous, and try to persuade (‘save’) others from their degenerate ways of thinking. 

“See the light” they promise “here are our callouts and blog posts to convince you. Decry your past sins of problematic shipping, be baptized by our in-group adulation and welcome, and then go forth and send hate to others until they too see the light.” In many ways “get therapy” by the antis is akin to “I’ll pray for you” by the Christian-right (and ultimately ironic).

(Although it has been pointed out to me that these fans are likely not themselves specifically ex-evangelicals, but rather those who have brushed up with evangelical norms and modes of thinking without specifically being victims of it. In many ways they are more simply conservative Christian in temperament and attitude without necessarily being raised into religion by belief).

What this has to do with canon validation is that these fans look to canon for approval, for Truth. On the one hand, if it is in the canon then it must be good / pure or at least acceptable. The authority (canon) has deemed it thus. It is safe and acceptable to discuss and to enjoy watching or consuming. In this way, validation from canon means a measure of safety from being Bad and Problematic. 

For example, where a GoT fan could discuss Cersei/Jaime's (toxic, interesting) dynamic in depth as it related to the canon, fans who shipped Jon/Sansa (healthy, interesting) were Gross and Bad. The canon as Truth provided a safety net, a launch point. "It's GRRM, not me, who is problematic." It wasn’t okay to ship the problematic bad gross incest ship, but it being in the canon material meant it was open for discussion, for nuance, for “this adds an interesting layer to the story” which is denied to all non-canon ships labelled as problematic.

(Note: there are of course people who have zero interest in watching GoT for a whole slew of very valid reasons, including but not limited to the incest. That’s a different to this trend. A less charged example might be The Umbrella Academy, where a brother canonically is in love with his sister and antis still praise the show, but if you dare to ship any of the potential incest ships then you are the one who is disgusting).

On the other hand, a very interesting alternate (or additional) explanation for this phenomenon was raised to me on twitter. (These ideas aren’t mine originally, but I wholly endorse them as a big part of what is likely going on): Namely, as with authoritarian individuals in general, they see themselves as right and correct, but the canon (which has not yet validated their ship) is not correct, and is in fact problematic, and so they can save the canon from itself.

As mentioned, these fanpol types see their interpretation as Good and Pure. So if they can push (demand, bully) the canon into conforming to their worldview and validating their interpretation, then they have shown the (sinful) creators the light and led them to the righteous path. This only works if the canon allows itself to saved though, otherwise the creators remain Evil for spurning them.

How is this different from fans simply hoping for their ship to be canon?

For a second here, let’s rewind to the 90s (since Whedon has been in the news recently). This “I want it to be canon” thing isn’t 100% new, of course. We saw this trend then for the show Buffy the Vampire Slayer, but it was different then. At the time, fans who hoped for a ship to be canon might have been cheering for a problematic one to begin with (Buffy/Spike). So shipping was still present, minus vocal fanpol.

(And Buffy fans learned that canon validation...can leave a lot to be desired. A heavy lesson was learned about the ways that fan desires can play out horrifically in canon, and how some things are best left out of the hands of canon-writers).

These days, this is still largely true. Many fans hope for their ships to go canon, as they always have. There are tropes like “will they/won’t they” that TV shows may even be designed around, which a certain narrative anticipation and a very deliberate build up to that.

But while shipping *hopes* occur for many fans, almost all ships fans that *demand* to go canon and obsess over are now the ones deemed as Unproblematic, or as Less Problematic. I’m talking here about the ships that aren’t necessarily an explicit will/won’t they dynamic but do have some canon dynamic that leads them to being shipped, but which the creators aren’t necessarily deliberately teasing and building up a romantic end-game for.

These ships often have fans who are happy to stick to fandom, but there has also been a huge uptick in the portion of fans who are approaching shipping with an explicit lens of “will they go canon?” and “don’t you want them to be canon?” and now even “they have to go canon” and “the canon is wrong if they don’t make this ship canon”, to a final end-point of “if the ship doesn’t go canon, the source material is Wrong and Bad.”

These latter opinions are the one we see more by extreme fans (‘stans’), hardcore shippers, but especially by fanpol-types, the ones who embrace fandom purity culture at least to some extent.

Why them?

In pushing for canon validation, fanpol types seek to elevate their (pure) interpretation of canon. As mentioned above, it’s validation of their authority, a safety-net, and a way to save the canon from itself if only they can bully the canon into validating their right and good interpretation. 

There’s also another reason, which is that canon validation is a tool to bludgeon those seen as problematic. They can use it to denounce other (problematic) ships as Not Being Canon and therefore highlight their own as Right and Good, because it is represented in the True Meaning of the Work.

Canon validation then is a cudgel sought by virtuous crusaders to wield against their unclean enemies. It is an ideological pursuit. It is organised around identity and in groups sometimes as insular as cults.

How does this happen?

Fanpol tend to be younger or more vulnerable fans, susceptible to authoritarian manipulators. As many have highlighted before, authoritarian groups and exclusionary ideologies like terfs are very good at using websites like tumblr to mobilize others around their organizing beliefs. Fanpol tend to feel legitimate discomfort, but instead of taking responsibility for their media engagement, ringleaders stoke and help them direct their discomfort as anger onto others; “I feel ashamed and uncomfortable, and therefore you should be held accountable for my emotions.” Authoritarian communities endorse social dominance orientations, deference to ringleaders, and obedient faith to the principles those ringleaders endorse.

As these fans attach more and more of their identity to a given media (or ship), and derive more and more validation and more of their belongingness needs from this fanpol community, they also become more and more anxious about being excluding from this group. This is because such communities have rigid rules and very conditional bases for social acceptance. Question or "betray" the organizing ideology and be punished or excommunicated. If that is all you have, you are left with nothing. Being labelled problematic then is a social death.

What this means is that these fans cannot accept all interpretations of a media as equally valid: to do so Betrays the ideology. It promises exclusion. And, in line with a perspective around ‘saving’ canon and leading others into the light – forcing and bending the canon to their will is what will make it Good (and therefore acceptable to enjoy, and therefore proof of them as righteous by having saved others). As was also pointed out to me on twitter, endorsement from canon or its creators also satiates that deep need they have for authority figures to approve of them.

Due to all of this, these fans come to obsess over canon validation of their own interpretation. In a way, they have no other option but to do so. They need this validation -- as their weapon, as their authority, as their safety net, as their approval, as their evangelical mission of saviorship.

Canon validation is proof: I am Good. I am Right(eous). I am Safe.

(In many ways, I do ache for some of these people, so wrapped up in toxic communities and mindsets and so afraid to step out of line for fear of swift retribution, policing their own thoughts and art against the encroaching possibility that anything be less than pure. It’s not healthy, it’s never going to be healthy.)

In the end, people are going to write their own stories. You are well within your rights to critique those stories, to hate them, to interpret them how you will, but you can never control their story (it's theirs).

Some final notes:

This trend may be partially to do with queer ships now being *able* to go canon where before so no such expectation would exist. Similarly, social media has made this easier to vocalize. Still, who makes these demands and the underlying reasons are telling. There are also many legitimate critiques of censorship, queerbaiting (nebulous discussions to be had here), and homophobia in media to be had, and which may front specific ships in their critique. But critique is distinct from asking that canon validate one's own interpretation.

#fandom purity culture #antis #discourse

[feliciohno]

I'm back but not without a quick psa

Okay ik I do like these little psa bullshits all the time and I am sorry and ik only like maybe 5 people care I'm just the kinda person who feels the need to over explain constantly even though ik I don't have to. Anyways, this is hopefully gonna be a quick thing and done but I just need to talk a little bit about my coming back and some changes to the blog so lets go.

So, I'll be honest, I'm not fully ready to come back. Just being frank but the only reason I'm coming back after about a month is because I wanted to take part in a Chaggie month during may and this is the blog I use for that kinda stuff. But I didn't want to reopen the blog and then just post about Hazbin cause honestly I'd feel bad. I know I say time and time again that this blog isn't JUST Hetalia but I'm not dumb, I know what you guys followed the blog for. And it's not that I blame anyone because where the content isn't only Hetalia it tends to be mostly Hetalia.

If it wasn't for the Chaggie month I probably would have stayed away longer ngl. Don't get me wrong, I do feel much better than I did when I first left. I just still don't feel great. Without getting too much into it, my brain doesn't really do great things sometimes. Whenever something bad happens to me it often will latch those emotions to things in the moment. Sometimes it's stuff like food or a song but a lot of times it's shows and characters and ships. It sucks cause it very often tends to hit special interests the most. There really isn't a special interest I have that I can enjoy without issue except maybe bats. And ik this is typically a trauma response but like? My brain recently has started to do it outside of trauma? Like I'm pretty sure I haven't gone through any trauma recently?? So idk man it's dumb and hates me. Anyways, there's still some characters and ships and stuff for Hetalia that I really can't look at without panicking lmao. But honestly it's okay. I'm kinda use to this kinda stuff by now?

Basically my hiatus was so I could step away from people and just like the show by myself. I blocked tags, I only interacted with the show and drew stuff for it when I felt like I wanted to or could. I only talked about the show with an extremely small select group of friends and even that was on rare occasion. There's a word for what I was trying to do but I can't remember it rn it's like re-something therapy. But whatever so yeah. And honestly? It was working really well. It's still working really well. I feel better than I did before. But like? It's still not great. There's gonna be stuff that still messes me up. This isn't the kinda thing that goes away over night and I knew that going into my hiatus. But! You guys stuck with me (from what I can tell) and I genuinely thank you all for that! So like yeah I am coming back to the blog including Hetalia posting. I'm probably gonna keep the tags blocked though and only look at like certain mutual content and stuff. Just stuff that I know for sure isn't gonna idk set me off (I desperately don't wanna call any of this stuff triggers cause then that's admitting how much they actually emotionally affect me and I'm not even gonna go there lmao).

That's basically it in regards of my hiatus BUT now I gotta talk about some changes to this blog. Nothing huge just two minor things.

The first thing is this blog is now my Problematic Media blog AND my blog to put Gore/N S F W content on. The main reason for this is I got accepted to be an artist on a blog called @/ponydoodles (if you like mlp related content go give it a follow :> ). One of the rules though of being an artist is the main blog you use and that is associated with your mod title can not have any extreme gore or N S F W content on it. Which like, I don't blame them for making that a rule. The mlp fandom has a lot of bad rep cause of older and probably even still modern fans. I have my own opinions on that kinda stuff but that's neither here nor there. So yeah! Any content of mine that is too suggestive or gory will be posted here no matter the source. Please make sure to block any tags of stuff you don't wanna see. And just a quick note, I will not be tagging N S F W content as such because those posts get blocked and it's FUCKING annoying. Instead I will be using the tag NSFT (not safe for tumblr) which from what I've seen is what most people are using these days. As for gore I always do my best to make sure everything is properly tagged with more intense or triggering content.

The last small change to this blog is this- I will no longer be posting about non blog related content on here. Lemme explain a little. I'm sure a lot of you noticed that I tend to make little posts here and there about myself, my life, cartoons just anything on my mind. The problem with this is I ended up almost killing my main blog @hext00ns because I was never fucking using it. And because I never used it for so long I don't get much interaction from people on that blog but I did start to get it here. From there it was a loop. I'd post more on here, causing less attention on my main, causing people to interact more with my side, causing me to want to post more on my side and less on my main. And honestly? It actually made me kinda depressed? In a weird way? It's kinda dumb but Hextoons is like my brand. Being the weird cartoon freak that knows way too much about animation and anything involving it has always and will always be my main and in some cases only personality trait lmao. It's also where I post my original content which is really important to me. So, here's what's gonna happen. I'm only gonna be posting about content that pertains to the sources and content that I use this blog for. Any other content or blogging or whatever will go on my main @hext00ns So like if you liked that kinda stuff or if you like other cartoons, anime, and video game stuff, just god please go follow that account. Genuinely. I promise that blog is full of the same F- bullshit quality all my content tends to be.

And one last thing cause I feel like some people are gonna be curious, yes you can still talk to me about Hetalia and send asks and shit. I still love asks and interactions more than life itself and that hasn't changed. It really is what motivates me to do shit. Comments, tags on reblogs, asks, this kinda stuff puts a fire under my ass to continue and create content that, I assume, you guys like. I'm always open to that kinda stuff on either blog. And where yeah, Hetalia kinda makin' me sad still just a bit, I am better. And honestly? I have the physical ability to just? Not check my notifs for a day or so if I need a short breather or I'm not feeling up to it? Like tech is so amazing how you can exit out of apps and windows like wow guys it's so crazy (/s/j).

So yeah, your fruity little Italian is back from superhell what's up bitches

#this was longer than i wanted it to be #whatever lmao #psa #vee~ #i'm prob gonna queue this up once or twice and then go on to my regularly scheduled bs tomorrow

[akari-hope]

not to burst anyone’s bubble but you ARE racist if you continue to support shera because white saviorism and a piss-poor colonialism metaphor are literally baked into and inextricable from the narrative. adora is the poster child for a white savior and she’s even born of colonizers. That isn’t mentioning the white-washing and Glimmer’s skin turning YELLOW on Dril. you people use your autism as an excuse & will do anything to ignore racism if it comes from your faves. It’s literally so gross.

2/2 And if you’re a poc fan of it you absolutely DO have internalized racism you need to unpack. I don’t give a shit if my wording makes ppl with ocd uncomfortable, because that gets used as a flimsy excuse, too. It’s the truth. Y’all have to stop hiding behind your neurodivergencies and mental illnesses, because they don’t matter when you’re willfully ignoring or outright excusing blatant racism. Continuing to support spop means you’re racist, end of. I’m really not trying to be mean, but damn.

i agree with the points you're making. these are all parts of the racism present in the series. along with mara's whitewashing, and several other elements. you're correct. these are all problems. whether they're meant to be malignant or not is up for interpretation, but their existence is certainly not.

however, once again, everyone is going to have a different comfort level. and not throwing away the show does not make them racist by default. just as it does not make them transphobic, ableist, etc. this is coming from someone who has decreasing love for the series, closer to indifference than anything else at this point, so please note i'm not saying this to defend myself. this is just something i believe - my answer remains the same for harry potter, twilight, steven universe, whatever. enjoying a fictional work on its own is not a moral statement, regardless of the content of that fictional work (if it were then horror as a genre could not exist).

do i personally approve of every element in all of the works i listed? absolutely the fuck not. hp is full of racist, homophobic, transphobic, antisemitic bullshit. twilight is racist in more ways than i can count and justifies grooming. steven universe, while i have less knowledge of it, is not without its problems as well, many similar to she-ra's if the discourse i've encountered around it is to be believed. but i do not think that enjoyment of these works means someone inherently supports or excuses any of these things.

someone can engage critically with problematic media while still enjoying it, and that does not make them a bad person. if they are acknowledging the problems, seriously taking them into account in their interpretation and judgment of a work, and not just wiping them away, they are not inherently immoral and bad people for liking a work with any number of racist elements. (please note i am NOT speaking of those who willfully ignore or excuse. that is a problem and something they need to address. however i do not find them to be the majority of people i speak to.)

i'm going to be honest, we could do this song and dance with any piece of media. we can look for problematic elements all we want. and we would find them in anything. and you're allowed to. rip things to shreds if you want, kick them to the curb, hate them all you want. but ultimately you cannot dictate how others engage with fiction, and you will drive yourself crazy trying to. i really recommend just not engaging with the media or communities around it if it's so upsetting to you. i did the same largely, so it's very possible. saves me a lot of strife.

side note, i do not know why this is directed toward me. i do not use my autism as an excuse for anything to my knowledge, but you're free to correct me if i'm off base. if this is directed at an anon, don't send it to me bc i do not speak for my anons.

also, while i respect the attempt to backtrack, this all does come across as rude considering you're directing it at someone who really doesn't even support the series anymore. i'm giving the benefit of the doubt that you did not know this and are tired/upset, which i understand and do not blame you in the slightest for. but please do not make assumptions like this about me in the future. it is rude regardless of intention.

tldr: you make solid points, but people are also allowed to make their own decisions regarding how they engage with fiction. all that being said, i hope you have a nice evening anon (or whatever time of day it is for you)

#anon #i'm open to genuine discussion #i don't have personal stakes in this convo so it does very little for me #but i believe in nuance and i'm going to always advocate for looking at something through a nuanced lens #long post

[angeloncewas]

dont wanna make this ask long bc i am tired and dont have the energy to be a well spoken (?) person rn but it probably will be long anyways, so sorry!! but like. as somebody who has hyperfixated on both idubbbz and schlatt (along with a plethora of other problematic content creators, i really know how to fuckn pick em!!) they absolutely foster a dogshit community, at least outside of platforms like tumblr, where like. you cant really avoid fandom culture like you can on twitter or ig, if that makes sense. on here, if you wanna post about your favorite youtuber, whether you tag it or not, other fans will likely see and if you say some bad shit, you will likely get called on it, whereas on ig basically only your followers will see it even if you use a hashtag and on twitter its like if you arent in a subtwt/fandom then you basically dont interact with any subtwt at all unless its an accident, ya know?

so like. i think what im trying to say here is that while ive met a lot of fans of both these creators, especially schlatt, who are great people as far as i can tell, i am also specifically on the fandom side of things and as soon as i step out of that space i realize that a lot of people who watch them are not actually minorities like me and my mutuals who can catch on to satire or who watch their more behind the scenes stuff where you can see them act like a decent person or even call out people for the things they usually joke about which just. fucking sucks. it sucks that, as much as i do believe schlatt is actually a good person (and sort of idubbbz, although i dont really watch him much anymore for a plethora of reasons, mostly related to the fact that i cant stand his jokes anymore even if he is playing a character as he's said before), he also keeps doing terrible fucking things and im really glad his actual friends have been calling him on it recently, especially after that jackbox video (which is a whole other thing on its own bc it literally seemed like nobody wanted to be there basically the entire video?? like as somebody who watched all the jackbox videos before that one, it was really fucking off in that call and the jokes were next level fucking upsetting), but sometimes it's just kinda like. exhausting. bc his community is already fucking bad now, you cant undo accidentally fostering a community of fucking racist homophobes who dont get that you're playing a character, unless you kinda drop off and build a whole new community from that, which would be stupid to do at this point in his career. not really sure where i was going with this tbh, but i thought i would chime in on this discussion as a viewer of mainly schlatt, but also a past idubbbz viewer who is basically a seasoned fucking vet at dealing with shitty fanbases because of him and many other dumb youtube white boys

(also, note on that anisa thing: ian's main fanbase was definitely pissed just bc she does sex work and a lot of them are too fucking young or just too fucking dense i guess to clock the fact that he's putting on an act bc, like i said before, they either dont watch his behind the scenes content, or they do and they kinda just miss those moments between still trying to entertain where he gets genuine. that being said, a lot of people outside of his fanbase were also pissy bc anisa is a less than spectacular lady if you really do your research on her, kind of a bad person but it's not something a lot of people know about, especially since one of the few videos made on it was by fucking creepshow art)

sorry for the rant again, i feel like i do this every other week now and i apologize, you just seem to have the best discourse and i enjoy partaking <3 hope you have a good rest of your day/night/whatever time you're reading this!

—🦷

Thank you for the input (don't mind the rant !) and I hope you have a good rest of your day too <3 For post length, I'll answer under the cut :)

Yeah, I get what you mean (I think ahdsufsd). Fandom as a concept is pretty... I don't even know how to describe it, but it's the kind of thing that I feel like white male Redditors would think of as pussy shit, y'know? Like the Ricegum gang isn't a fucking "fandom" they're a... well, a fandom, but they're not gonna admit to that. So when you step outside of a community like Tumblr (the queerest place on the internet TM) you come into contact with the faces of the fandom you're dealing with and oftentimes they're a lot less like you than you might've thought from the similar interest. It's like going to a Weezer concert and realizing you're surrounded by incels (this is a JOKE).

Satire's a rough topic because some people don't think it should exist at all. Like any words that can be directly interpreted as bigoted or problematic should not be uttered. I disagree with that, I think it's one of the most interesting forms of both social commentary and comedy, but I do see the problem. There are people who watched Filthy Frank (to take an example from that other anon) and didn't know or care what the point of his actions were (I don't know what they were tbh - I never watched him, but it sounds like he's a pretty decent dude) and instead read his jokes as-is. There are thousands upon thousands of people who aren't gonna get satire and that's a problem because if they're already bigoted they're gonna see people like Schlatt and iDubbz and whoever else as truly validating.

(Largely unrelated but yo, is iDubbz still going? Are the views alright? Is the adsense popping? Has he just kept going with Content Cops? I haven't heard about him since the girlfriend thing dropped.)

"you cant undo accidentally fostering a community of fucking racist homophobes who dont get that you're playing a character, unless you kinda drop off and build a whole new community from that"

I think this is what's pertinent when it comes to discussing Schlatt. After the Jackbox video (for me at least, he might've been there before) he put himself at a crossroads. If he'd apologized, said "sorry, I took it too far, that was a mistake" - yeah, plenty of people wouldn't have forgiven him and plenty of bigoted fans of his would've said that the apology was just to placate the snowflakes on Twitter, but to the sort of in-between people it would've shown that he's able to recognize and reconcile his mistakes. He could've transitioned into content that's A) actually good (when I say that the video was bad I don't just mean in terms of racism, I mean it straight up was not entertaining) and B) less "edgy" for the sake of. I wouldn't expect him to go uwu squeaky clean, but he's already reeled in the bad people, so if he really wanted to foster a good, progressive audience, he has to do something significant to show that.

But he didn't.

Maybe for the sake of his career, maybe because he likes those bigoted fans, maybe because he just doesn't get it - I don't know. I don't think we'll ever know. I spoke earlier about doing what is right over what is easy and in the case of Schlatt it just feels like he really did take the easy way out. Whoever he is in his personal life doesn't change how he's perceived online and the kinds of people that are idolizing him for it.

(And yeah I saw the video on Anisa when I Googled her to check if they were still dating, but then I saw who it was made by and I was like oh well whatever avhfdfkj)

#this is kind of rambly but oh well #angel answers #🦷 anon #discourse #negative #cc critical #idk how to tag this stuff just telae jsfkbg #long post

[good-omens-classic]

Hi Good Omens fans, ever since making this blog, and trawling through the archives for old art, I have been thinking again about trends from before the TV-show, and the way people draw Aziraphale and Crowley.  I wanted to make this post addressing it but this is not “discourse” or to start a fight, in fact I would be perfectly content if all I did was make people think critically about what I am about to say and not even interact with this post at all, but I feel like I need to say it.

Talking about any racist undertones to the way people draw our two favorite boys usually makes people dig their heels in pretty fast.  This is not a callout post for any artist in particular, this is not me trying to be overly critical of artists especially since they have more talent and skill than I do, and I’m going to address some common counterpoints that I frankly find unsatisfactory.  Let’s just take a moment to set aside our defensiveness and think objectively about these trends.  It took me a while to unlearn my dismissive attitude about these concerns so maybe I can help others get over that hurdle a little faster.  Now let’s begin.

I’ve been kicking around the Good Omens fandom since maybe 2015 and for art based in book canon, whether it was made before the TV show came out, or because the artist is consciously drawing different, original designs, I’m going to estimate that a decent 75% of all fanart looks like this

Aziraphale is white and blonde and blue-eyed while Crowley is the typical “racially ambiguous” brown skin tone it’s become so popular to draw podcast characters as nowadays.

And the question is why?  With the obvious answer being “it’s racist,” but let’s delve a little deeper than that.

A common thing I hear is that people get appearance headcanons fixed in their mind because the coverart of the book pictures the characters a certain way.  My first point is this only shifts the question to why the illustrators drew them that way, when there aren’t many physical descriptions in the book.  My second point is that while there definitely are cover arts that picture Aziraphale as cherubic, blonde, and white and Crowley as swarthy, dark-skinned, and racially ambiguous...

(side note: why is Crowley’s hand so tiny?  what the hell is going on in this cover?)

It’s much more common for the covers to simplified, stylized, and without any particular unambiguous skin tones

I don’t know about the UK but the most popular version in the United States is the dual black and white matching covers

And while you could make an argument that the shading on Crowley’s face could suggest a darker skintone, it seems obvious to me that lacking any color these are not supposed to suggest any particular race for either of these two, and the contrasting colors are a stylistic choice to emphasize how they are on opposite sides.  If anything, to me it suggests they are both white.

In short I simply do not buy the argument that people are drawing Aziraphale and Crowley this way because that’s how they were represented on the cover art of the book.  If you draw them the way they are on the cover then whatever, I don’t care, but I don’t believe that’s what’s driving this trend.

The second thing people will say is that Good Omens is a work of satire, and it’s based in Christian mythology which has this trend of depicting angels as white, and it is embodying the trope of a “white, cherubic angel” paired with a dark-skinned demon for the explicit purpose of subverting the trope of “white angel is good, dark demon is bad” since Aziraphale is not an unambiguous hero and Crowley is not a villain.  “It’s not actually like that because Crowley isn’t a bad demon, and Aziraphale isn’t actually a perfect angel” is the argument.  This has a certain logic to it and allows some nuance to the topic, but to this I say:

Uncritically reproducing a trope, even in the context of a satire novel, is not enough to subvert it.  Good Omens is not criticising the racist history of the church, and while the book does have some pointed jabs at white British culture (such as Madam Tracy conning gullible Brits with an unbelievably ignorant stereotype of a Native American) it is not being critical of the conception of angels as white and blonde or the literal demonization of non-white people.  That’s just not what the book is about.  So making the angel white and the demon dark-skinned, playing directly into harmful tropes and stereotypes, is not somehow subversive or counter-cultural when doing so doesn’t say anything about anything.

Please consider fully the ramifications of the conception of white and blonde people as innocent and cherubic and dark-skinned people as infernal and mischievous, especially in modern contexts...

Black people are more likely to be viewed as violent, angry, and dangerous.  Priming with a dark-skinned face makes people more likely to mistake a tool for a gun.  Black people are viewed as experiencing pain less intensely by medical professionals.  Black men are viewed as physically larger and more imposing than they actually are.  The subconscious racial bias favoring light skin is so ingrained it’s measurable by objective scientific studies, on top of the anecdotal evidence of things like news stories choosing flattering, “cherubic” pictures of white and blond criminals while using unflattering mugshots for non-white offenders.

This is why I say that if you’re going to invoke the “whites are angelic” trope, you better have a damn good subversion of it to justify it, because this idea causes real harm to real people in the real world.  And Aziraphale being a bit of a bastard despite being an angel, I just don’t see that as sufficient.  I am especially cautious of when it’s my fellow white fans that make this argument, not because I believe they do this out of any sort of malice or hatred of people with dark skin, but because I know first-hand it stems from a dismissiveness rooted in not wanting to think about it for too long because it makes us uncomfortable.  Non-white people do not have the luxury of not thinking about it, because it’s part of their life.

Now the strongest textual evidence people use, in the absence of much real descriptor, is this:

"Many people, meeting Aziraphale for the first time, formed three impressions: that he was English, that he was intelligent, and that he was gayer than a tree full of monkeys on nitrous oxide. Two of these were wrong; Heaven is not in England, whatever certain poets may have thought, and angels are sexless unless they really want to make an effort" 

This piece of art has circulated in the fandom for so long I don’t know the original artist and it’s been used for everything from fancovers to perfume.  This is where I found it and it’s one of the first things that come up when you google this quote about Aziraphale.  

Doesn’t it just feel like this is the man that’s describing, some blonde effeminate gay man?  Well guess what, there’s the “blonde as innocence” trope rearing its ugly head again, because the stereotype of gay men and effeminacy as being a white and blonde thing is--ding ding ding you guessed it--racism.  And why would intelligent suggest a white and blonde person, except if the stereotype of a dark-skinned person is less intelligent?

Now the point of “people assume Aziraphale is British” is another sticking point people will often use, claiming that the stereotype of a British person is white and blonde.  I guess this has some merit, since the British empire was one of the biggest forces behind white colonial expansion, and it seems disingenuous to assign “British” as “nonwhite” as soon as we’re being satirical, in the same way I found it distasteful that the TV show made God female when so many of the criticisms of the church are about its misogyny and lose their teeth as soon as God is no longer male.

However consider that 1.4 million Indian people live in the UK.  I heard a man say aloud once that the concept of a black person having a British accent was a little funny, as though Doctor Who doesn’t exist and have black people on it.  And I’m not overly familiar with the social landscape of the UK, but I understand they’re experiencing a xenophobia boom and non-white Brits aren’t considered “really British.”  The stereotype of non-white people not being British only exists because of reinforcement in media.  If you really want to be subversive, drawing Aziraphale as Indian goes way further than drawing him as white IMO.

Now let’s talk about Crowley.  He is almost always drawn with a darker skin tone than Aziraphale, even when they are both white, and while I’ve outlined above how this is problematic on terms of linking light skin with innocence, I think it does have an extra layer.  I think it also has to do with the exotification and fetishization of brown skin and non-white people.

This artist’s tumblr is gone now but their art is still on dA and while it’s definitely beautiful and well-done, I think this is a very good example of what I’m talking about.

Crowley and Aziraphale necessarily contrast each other, so describing Aziraphale as “British” might suggest that Crowley is “foreign-looking.”  I also know *ahem* that the fandom generally thirsts over Crowley to hell and back, so making him a swarthy, tall dark and handsome is not necessarily surprising.

An interesting thing happened when the TV show came out, and everyone started drawing Michael Sheen!Aziraphale and David Tennant!Crowley more and more often:  It’s not ubiquitous, but it does happen that sometimes artists will draw David Tennant’s skin darker than it actually is.  The subconscious urge to see Crowley with dark skin is for some reason that strong for many people.  And I really encourage people doing this to think about why.  Not naming any names but I’ve working with fanartists before for collabs who I had to ask to lighten “bad guy” demon’s skin tones because it looked like they were making the skin darker on purpose to make them look scarier.  This person is a perfectly pleasant person who tries not to be racist!  And we both still fell into it accidentally, and it took me a while to notice and point it out, because the ingrained stigmatization of darker skin is pervasive yet often goes unnoticed.

What is the solution?  I don’t know, and as a white person I’m not really qualified to make that call.  Do we draw them both with the exact same skin tone?  Is it better to make them both white?  Should we make both of them non-white?  Should we only make Aziraphale non-white?  I am consciously aware of the fact that the Good Omens fandom is mostly white people, so most of the art we make is being both made by and consumed by white people, so I don’t feel comfortable saying “draw these characters of color specifically” because that can also veer into fetishization territory very quickly.  This is not specific to good omens but I think we should pay attention to what fans of color say in all fandom spaces and weigh our choices even if they seem insignificant.  And it’s important to realize that fans of color will not be a monolith in their opinion either, and it’s our responsibility to recognize that everyone can be affected by racism and social issues differently, the same way all women are affected by misogyny differently so just because one woman says such as such is misogynistic and another says it’s not.  I’m sure there are non-white fans who think it’s perfectly fine to draw Aziraphale as white and Crowley as ambiguously non-white.  I’m not saying they’re wrong.  And I’m not saying you can’t reblog this kind of art, or that people who make or made it should feel bad about themselves.  But so often this sort of thing goes unaddressed just because people don’t like thinking about it, and well, avoiding hard questions never really goes well I think.

#? #voice of mod #?????