strangerthings4theories

[strangerthings4theories]

So

Max dies-ish and the four gates splitting Hawkins open happen on like March 27th

And the upside down finally starts bleeding into the town two days later when they all reunite on the 29th

Billy's birthday

Are the Duffer's really that insufferable that they pay no attention to dates or is that significant do you think

#i'm CHEWING GLASS OVER HERE #aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh #stranger things #billy hargrove

[strangerthings4theories]

Y'know, now that it's been nearly two years since S4 dropped, I still think Billy has a significant chance of coming back. A lot of my core theories are still in play, the payoff has just been delayed.

My main concern is S5 will be so jam-packed full of stuff that none of it lands :p lol

#billy hargrove #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #stranger things 5

[strangerthings4theories]

Hi, what are your theories about Billy in season 5?

I'm praying for him to come back, seriously 😭

Love your page ❤️

Hi, and thank you! 💕

My current theories (and hopes) hinge on the comment Vecna made, that all his victims live on in his mind. This is a significant statement when his other-dimensional puppet has, until now, been called the Mind Flayer. He's absorbing the real world, making a copy of it, and bending it to his will. That includes the people in it.

If Billy returns, I'm guessing it'll be as a copy of himself trapped in the Upside Down, or as a disembodied consciousness in Vecna's mindscape. Thematically, that kind of story would be very similar to the Billy-is-the-American theory. Billy isn't trapped in a Russian cell, but he is trapped somewhere.

I love the idea of Billy being one of the keys to Vecna's defeat. He's hidden away and hard to find, but when he's liberated he gives the others the secret knowledge they need to win the war. A storyline like that would pay off so much symbolism, I kid you not. (For instance, in S3 Billy is paralleled with the Russian key trying to force open the Upside Down.)

Of course, whatever happens will depend heavily on the Kukly storyline. Multiple ST games have hinted that Vecna will build an army of doppelgangers to attack the real world. Right now, I'm theorizing that Eddie Munson will return as the army's undead general. If Billy returns too, he'll likely serve as Eddie's "mirror image" on the opposite side of the war.

But 🤷‍♀️ we'll see. I'm not confident in the Duffers' ability to handle theme and symbolism.

#billy hargrove #max mayfield #vecna #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #billy hargrove is alive #stranger things 5

[strangerthings4theories]

OMG NEW THEORY.

Billy isn't in the Upside Down. He's in the Russian lab, where Hopper will find him. But somehow - perhaps through a Mind-Flayer-mediated form of psychic transfer - he's gained El's ability to use the Void. Multiple times now, he's projected his mind into Hawkins, watching and listening and trying to talk to Max. He's present the night of Chrissy's murder. That's why the TV plays a clip with a guy named Billy speaking, AND why there's a dog barking at her from behind a fence. Billy is trying to contact Max from prison, just like Hopper contacts Joyce. But she can't hear him.

He's also present the day Max reads her letter at his grave. So he does hear it - every single word. Then he sees Vecna grab hold of her, and he's desperate to do something, anything to save her, but he can't.

After that, Billy is equal parts broken and raging. When Hopper liberates him from prison, it gives him not only a new lease on life, but also a chance for vengeance. When he finally arrives in Hawkins for the climactic battle, he's ready to hit Vecna with all the pent-up rage of his eighteen years.

No one messes with Billy Hargrove's little sister.

#these scenes can still very much be read as a hint that billy is present in the background #that he's not “gone” like his tombstone suggests #just substitute the upside down - or vecna's mind - for the prison idea #billy still exists somewhere and he has a LOT to say

[strangerthings4theories]

Where do they say that specific Easter egg is an accident? 👀 The link only goes to an article about Will's birthday.

But yeah, no way is it an accident. Saying so wouldn't even be a believable lie lol. If you break down that scene, the whole thing is subtextually about Billy. I've broken it down elsewhere (including the significance of Max feeding the dog), so I'll reblog the post if I can find it. And ffs, you can't write a scene like that without some sort of intention. At the very least, the idea that, "Oh, she's thinking about Billy in this scene."

I have had a vicious gripe with the dbros ever since the 1st episode of season 4 where that "easter egg" "I'm just trying to be normal, Billy" can be heard on the TV in the background while Max is feeding her dog. Only for the duffers to apologize and say the easter egg was a fucking "accident."

In case you didn't know, that dialogue was from an episode of a series called Misfits of Science. The characters in this series have abilities.

In the specific episode Max was watching, there are characters named Billy and El (coincidence). Billy asks another character (Gloria) to use her abilities and they have an exchange like this (Which is the one heard on Max's TV).

BILLY: Gloria. Look, this is your old friend Billy talking here. You know, you just—it’s just a little favor and I don’t think it’ll matter.

GLORIA: I’m trying to be normal, Billy!

Again. This is the accident they claim.

Anyway the episode progresses and they travel to an ancient underground temple (in California btw) and there are symbols on the wall, when translated, mean something that would absolutely remind me of Billy.

"Will I leave only this? Like flowers that wither. Will nothing last but my name?"

As I said.

This was all a fucking "accident" and supposedly none of it means anything. And that's why I do not trust the dbags to put any thought into anything. Everything's just a coincidence. Or an accident.

They picked that specific episode to play at that specific scene in that specific moment from a show that has characters named Billy and El and they travel to California to a temple with symbols that translate to a sad quote that reminds you of Billy Hargrove's tragic death.

But Billy still showed up that season, so who is to say, really? They just lie I guess?

I hate it here.

#stranger things analysis #like yeah i can absolutely believe that the duffers' writing process is more chaotic than mine #but there are just some things you can't stumble into without a vague plan of some kind :p

[strangerthings4theories]

Aww I'm sorry! I just can't do the rollercoaster again though. At least, not right now. I can happily tell you what I think would make sense for S5, but I can't follow the news like I used to and try to find all the clues, etc. It's just too exhausting 😑 especially now that I'm rooting for Eddie's return too :p

But hey, I might change my mind. I've finally gotten to the point where I'm willing to rewatch the last two eps of S4. So... nature is healing...?

@strangerthings4theories please come back, I miss your theories 😔😔😔

#i cannot overstate how annoyed and aggrieved i was by those last two eps 😂💀 #everything was lined up perfectly for billy's return and then it went NOWHERE and i was like ???? #either i'm rly great at making up bullshit that fits the themes of the show #or they WERE going somewhere and the pandemic wrecked their plans #idk. at any rate i learned i'm pretty good at this film writing thing #and now i'm going to school for it so 🤷‍♀️

[strangerthings4theories]

Well, now that ST5 is officially in production, how we feelin?

I'm basically sitting back with my arms crossed watching them with squinty eyes 😂😂

[strangerthings4theories]

Random thought. Y'all remember that little scene in S4 Vol 2 where Hopper finds an adolescent Demogorgon strapped to a table and flayed open? And he gets a heartbroken look on his face?

Haunts me every damn day.

#i still think about this #and get mad about it 😂 #billy hargrove #chief jim hopper #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis

[strangerthings4theories]

Honestly, I truly believe, amongst all the other batshit theories that everyone has made about Season 4, that there was supposed to be more about the Russian prison in Kamchatka but for some reason, whether COVID-19 related or not, they couldn't do it.

You pointed out that the part of that prison we see in Season 3 doesn't match & never matches with the ones we see in see in Season 4.

All of this never comes back & there is no explanation why. And what we saw in Season 4 & what it made it out to be was so small compared to what we see here... I even find it hard to believe that even with the amount of power the Upside Down has, including it's creatures, it was able to take down an entire facility of that size especially since it seemed like the creatures where locked only in a specific place. (And again, given the rules of ST, there should have been a gate open in Russia for a long period of time, for what they were doing to work but this is never brought up at any point...)

Hopper couldn't have possibly been the American because we saw in Season 4 that he was somewhere else before getting to this specific base & he never goes to that specific part of the prison. It wouldn't make sense for him to be there, go somewhere else then come back. Plus we don't get any real reason why he wasn't given to the Demogorgon during that Season 3 scene.

Whether it was Billy or someone else, this just doesn't make any sense that there wasn't supposed to be more to it.

I'm choosing to be optimistic here but since we barely know how the Russians know about the UD & what they want to do with it, including the logistics of how they were able to pull off what they pulled off in S3, I'm thinking that we are going to go back to it in Season 5 because if not, this is the weirdest & most incoherent side plot in history.

No no you're totally right though. And I'm glad someone else feels this way.

The Russia plotline still doesn't make sense to me. Not in the slightest. I'd go so far as to say I'm not sure why the story even went to Russia. Absolutely nothing happened there to justify the setting. Hopper didn't need a Big Damn Hero moment because he's already had several, and everyone knew Hopper and Joyce would get together. There were no surprises, no revelations that made me think, "Omg this is why the story took us here." It was actually... um... pretty boring???

As someone who's gone over S1-3 with a fine toothed comb, that was a genuinely shocking thing to see. With every other plotline in the show, I've been able to say, "Oh this is what they were trying to accomplish with that." Not so with Russia. It's a mess that doesn't really achieve anything narratively or thematically.

And it just happens to be the plotline that, up until the last two episodes of S4, seemed to be prepping us for Billy's return.

Hell, even episode 8 went in that direction at first. When Hopper found the adolescent Demogorgon writhing in pain on an operating table, I legit freaked out! It was the perfect foreshadowing for him finding Billy - the teenage boy who's been written off as a monster, but actually deserves our compassion. Seriously, I couldn't have written it better.

And then we got... nothing? Nothing at all?

Lol nahhhhhh. Shit ain't right. I'd sooner believe they got screwed over because the pandemic took away their access to Dacre.

#billy hargrove #chief jim hopper #kamchatka #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #stranger things 4 #billy hargrove is alive #billy hargrove is the american #answering your mail

[strangerthings4theories]

Bestie, please tell me what is our stance on hoping that Billy will return in the final season? My clown shoes have gotten so heavy to wear 😔

I'm warily hoping for his return for multiple reasons:

(1) A lot of what I've explained about Billy's arc is still true, and still demands additional developments to make any sense. (For instance, he hasn't saved Max from anything yet, even though protecting the women in his life is a driving force for him.)

(2) He has a STRONG presence in S4, despite being dead :p That's not the case for any other character who's died. I interpret it as a "bridge" to S5; he's supposed to stay fresh in our minds.

(3) The spin the bottle moment at the end of S4 is primarily a Billy reference. And when El hears someone approaching her door, I'm pretty sure she's expecting him to walk in, not Hopper. (Which plays on the Billy/Hopper parallels of S3)

(4) Eddie, Billy's mirror character, died in a similar manner AND has plenty of evidence for his return also. I'll be genuinely surprised if their stories don't merge in the final season.

(5) Max's anthem for S4 says, "If I only could, I'd make a deal with God and get him to swap our places." Well guess who's currently braindead in a hospital bed? I.e., in the middle of swapping places with her dead brother? 🙃

(6) Now that I'm actually studying screenwriting, I feel 1000% justified in expecting the Duffers to pay off what they've set up. The setups are real, it's just a matter of execution now.

(7) Dacre Montgomery moved to LA 😆 I stg it's because the pandemic ruined their plans for S4, and Dacre was like, "Screw this, I'm moving to the US so this doesn't happen again."

So yeah. Lots of reasons! I'm just hoping the Duffers have enough storytelling space left to give a good payoff.

#billy hargrove #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #billy hargrove is alive #stranger things 5 #answering your mail

[strangerthings4theories]

#lotr #stranger things

[strangerthings4theories]

Fun fact, during my hiatus I started studying TV and film writing with the goal of (hopefully) getting into the industry one day.

Fuck it, we ball.

#personal #and yes i'm watching the wga strike with bated breath #ngl the outcome will determine whether i think the industry is worth breaking into :p

[strangerthings4theories]

Never say never! Personally I think a Winter Soldier plotline would be redundant. We already saw Billy turn on his master once, having him do it again would be annoying. I'm hoping the writers don't retread old ground. Other than that I don't see a reason to say it won't happen.

Theres always been a big bad and a human villian to every season of ST and always came in 3's.

Season 1 was the demogorgan, Brenner, and Troy.

Season 2 was the mind flayer, demodogs, and Billy.

Season 3 was the mind flayer, billy, and the Russians.

Season 4 was vecna, Jason, and the US government.

I'm assuming season 5 will follow this pattern. Vecna being big bad #1 and the US government probably won't give up either. Maybe even the Russians return again. But what I'm hoping for (and will probably never be the case) is that they bring billy back as that human element one last time. I want them to pull a winter soldier with him and el bring all his memories forth again forcing him into the antihero slot whether he's been controlled by the Russians or the US government. I wanna see vecna puppeteer Eddie and have an Eddie vs Billy fight scene. I wanna see Billy unlearn his shitty behaviors and reconnect with Max in a meaningful way like she always wanted.

Again, wishful thinking. Ill wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one happens first.

#billy hargrove #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #stranger things 5

[strangerthings4theories]

Why that if not this

Like. It's a real theme. You don't do this by accident sorry

Random thought. Y'all remember that little scene in S4 Vol 2 where Hopper finds an adolescent Demogorgon strapped to a table and flayed open? And he gets a heartbroken look on his face?

Haunts me every damn day.

#something something monsters as victims monsters as things that are made not born #billy hargrove #chief jim hopper #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis

[strangerthings4theories]

Random thought. Y'all remember that little scene in S4 Vol 2 where Hopper finds an adolescent Demogorgon strapped to a table and flayed open? And he gets a heartbroken look on his face?

Haunts me every damn day.

#chief jim hopper #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis #billy hargrove #the demogorgon

[strangerthings4theories]

Hey! Did you see we might get more Billy content 🥹 they’re releasing a stranger things VR game in Vecna’s pov (although idk how much canon it’s going to follow like runaway max)

The description says we, as Vecna, will “Inhabit the dreams and memories of fan-favorite characters like Will Byers and Billy Hargrove as you manipulate them to do your bidding”

Any theories? Do you think we’ll actually get good Billy content or am I getting my hopes up for nothing? Lol

I hadn't heard about this. I'm not sure what to expect, but I'm hella curious!! This would be a great opportunity to explore Will and Billy parallels. I don't think it's a coincidence the description mentions them specifically.

That said, supplemental materials like games and books should be considered second to the show in terms of canon. I've seen enough to believe the Duffers are usually consulted in the development of these materials, but that doesn't mean they'll stick with every storytelling decision. Or that they even signed off on them.

Btw... I can't be the only one who noticed the description called Billy a fan-favorite :p

#answering your mail #stranger things vr #billy hargrove #will byers

[strangerthings4theories]

Oh btw El already cheated by restarting Max's heart and bringing her back from death, so there's a hella big precedent ✌️

Yes hello I haven't posted in a long time but I literally just had the most random thought hit me.

What was Max's song for S4? "If I only could, I'd make a deal with God and get him to swap our places..."

Then what happened at the end of the season? She shared a similar fate to Billy. She stood up to the monster and paid for it with her life (well, went into a coma).

Ummmmmm yeah. Can't believe it took me this long to see it, but that's a SETUP 😘 The first part of the swap!

(Just to clarify though, I rly hope she doesn't completely swap places with Billy - as in, stay gone while he comes back. I want them to cheat so they can both return alive and well 😭 That's the only way I'd be happy)

#current theory: max made a deal with god but el's gonna say 'actually' and alter the terms #of course now i'm worried el is gonna die to make it happen 🥲 #ugh this fuckin show #billy hargrove #el hopper #max mayfield #stranger things theory #stranger things analysis